Was I In A Cult? - A Pagan Cult?: “Witch, please!”

Episode Date: January 13, 2025

In today’s spellbinding episode, Melissa, a self-proclaimed millennial misfit, shares her journey into a Wiccan coven that took a hard left towards culty. Melissa’s tale brews up all the ingredients for a wild cauldron of a story: witchy retreats, trance magic, Norse gods, and even perfume-making. What began as a quest for spiritual identity one day led her down a winding path of manipulation, dashed promises and blind devotion. She follow the yellow brick road, only to discover that the Great and Powerful Oz was just a woman charging $90 a week for unlicensed therapy while dangling the carrot of future financial success through channeling Norse deities. But fear not—this episode isn’t all toil and trouble. Melissa’s sharp wit and self-awareness make her story as empowering as it is entertaining. Plus, she managed to turn her culty coven experience into a thriving perfume business (fittingly named Sif Sniffs). Proof that even the wildest detours can lead to a magical comeback. _______ January is CBD Awareness month! We love our sponsor VIIA Hemp. Try VIIA today! viiahemp.com and use code INACULT! ________ LINKS: Melissa’s Perfume Company: Sif Sniffs  Follow us on Instagram/TikTok/FB: @wasiinacult  Have your own story? Email us: [e-mail] Please support Was I In A Cult? Through Patreon (we appreciate the hell out of you guys): https://www.patreon.com/wasiinacult  Merch is here! www.wasiinacult.com 

The views, information or opinions expressed by the guest appearing in this episode solely belong to the guest and do not represent or reflect the views or positions of the hosts, the show, podcast one, this network or any of their respective affiliates. for basically a coven. People kept asking if I was in a cult and I definitely thought I couldn't have been in a cult because I worked on a second masters to be a therapist that specialized in cult victims. It absolutely could not happen to me and the more I talked about it, the more I was like, holy shit, I may have been in a cult. ["Wiz Ayacuzzi Theme Song"] Welcome to Was I in a Cult, everyone? Season number four. Yes, that is, I'm Liz Ayacuzzi. And over here, I'm Tyler Meesom.

And we co-host this particular show about individuals who have been in cults or cult-like environments. And we do it with a little bit of levity, if you don't know already. And today we are back miraculously with season four. And I say miraculously because currently our dear, dear town of Los Angeles is on fire and it is devastating.

What is happening here, somehow we're here, but Tyler, Tyler had to evacuate his home. I did, it was Tuesday night and the fire was happening in the Palisades, but the Eden fire we didn't know about and I just happened to go outside and I saw the fire cresting the hill because I live in a town called Sierra Madre, a cute little community. And kind of

my Mormon prepper automatically came out and I was like let's get out of here, pack up everything. And we did. We walked through the house in like 30 minutes there was a mandatory evacuation and we packed up what we could and we put it in two cars and it's a strange feeling to go, what do I need? What can I not replace? And I had extra room so I brought things like my leaf blower and my hand saw because I don't know, how do you even replace that stuff? And that is the kind of thing that thousands and thousands of people are going to have to think about right now. I am fortunate. The fire came within two blocks of our home.

It is still standing. We are not back yet. There is no power there, I've been told. But for now, we got out and we are safe, but tens of thousands of people are. Your home is still intact. It is. Yeah, it's just, it's surreal, you guys.

Like, I'm safe too. Rob is safe. Rob lost power. But the amount of people that I know or know of that have lost their homes, there's no words for what's going on here. I think the whole town is universally in shock right now. And it's rough because like you may know this, but I live right near Altadena and it is one of the most beautiful communities in the country it is old beautiful homes and bespoke homes and Wooded area and cute little stores and nice little piece of shops and it's gone and it's gone and Like that'll never

You know that kind of thing will never come back I gotta look sorry You know, that kind of thing will never come back. I gotta, sorry. Yeah. So we're lucky. We're fortunate, but a lot of people aren't. They lost a lot. And we are glad that we can keep doing this podcast. One of the things I grabbed was my recording equipment.

So I am staying at someone's house in Newport Beach. He's actually recording this from a surfboard right now. Right. Right. It feels weird to be here and recording this from a surfboard right now. Right. It feels weird to be here and recording this podcast, but also like we have to keep living our life. And fortunately we can. We can make the podcast wherever we are. So.

Our heart goes out to everyone, everyone here whose lives have been affected by this horrifying disaster. You know, people have lost their whole entire lives and what it's done to our city. And jobs. There are restaurants that are closed down. Like, where do the people go?

Where does the cook go to my favorite pizza place in Altadena, Side Pie? Where do, what happens? I just don't know. So we're just taking it a day at a time and we are grateful for the firefighters who worked into the night to... In my town, firefighters from Tucson came up to Sierra Madre, California, and they fought the fire off because of firefighters from Tucson, Arizona. Okay, let's do the show shall we?

Seems weird to transition to witches. No it's a perfect segue. Our show is often filled with sharp left turns anyways right so I guess it's also on brand. Is that why your face is covered in green paint? Today's episode is a wild one. I for one was very excited to share it on the heels of all the wicked madness. You saw wicked? I mean, sort of. Over the holidays, I had a screener of it and my family watched it on a loop and I peeked

my head in just long enough to get that damn song Defying Gravity stuck in my head for days. It's movie magic escapism at its best and I just highly recommend it. And all that's to say is today's show is also about witches and paganism and Wicca. Of which I learned a great deal during the editing of this episode. Oh yes. Today's guest reached out to us and essentially said, I think I escaped a pagan cult. And of course I was very intrigued and we spoke and her story was wild and fascinating and she's really funny and she's super self-aware and I'm just really excited to have her on

today's show. So as our listeners know, cults don't have to be placed in a commune. They don't have to brand you or abuse you to be a cult. Sometimes they just have to channel ancient Norse goddesses and dangle the carrot of future financial success from events where you horse for the group and channel Freya. Tyler, our listeners don't know what you're talking about. They will, Liz.

They will. Let's get on to the episode. And let's get you to a movie theater. I'm not that girl, Liz, to quote the song. Play it, Rob. Oh, so you do know it. I'm not that girl. We've had enough trauma this week, Liz.

Was that one of those emergency alerts I've been getting for two days straight? It's just me singing wicked songs. I am Melissa Siff, your daughter. I reek of millennial. Like I just radiate millennial wherever I go. Born in the 80s, grew up on Long Island. If I say things incorrectly, that is why. I grew up in a town called Brentwood. It's called a minority majority town. The high school I went to is 85% Hispanic or Latino. So I was like the token white girl.

I was also 5'10 and 300 pounds at 12. I never fit in. I also grew Catholic, as many a white person on Long Island does, but I was constantly needing to say the Lord's Prayer in front of a statue of St. Anne because I was getting in trouble in catechism, so I knew Catholicism not my vibe. It's also the late 90s, early 2000s, so it's peak witchcraft in pop culture time. We love the craft. Practical Magic, Buffy has Willow, who's a witch, Sabrina's getting sassed by Salem, Wicked came out in 2003, I was a theater nerd, I have a Wicked tattoo, it literally says Defying Gravity. Tell them how I'm Defying Gravity. Oh thanks Rob, now it's stuck in my head again.

I liked the narrative that was told in all of these witch stories, which was you could be weird and you could be the outcast. That is what makes you powerful. And I felt like I'm weird. I don't fit in. I could make this my superpower. All right, everyone, it's my turn to be Tyler Meesom. So as Melissa said, in the late 1990s and early 2000s, these iconic movies and TV shows popularized witchcraft, portraying it as empowering and relatable, especially for teens and young adults.

And with the rise of the internet, online forums and chat rooms like AOL provided a space for people to learn and connect about witches in Wicca. A book published in 1998 by Silver Raven Wolf, titled Teen Witch, Wicca for a New Generation even became a best seller. One more fun fact, on both sets of The Craft and Practical Magic they hired a real witch as a consultant and on both of these sets people reported unusual activity like sudden weather changes, flickering lights and unexplained noises. Sounds like any movie set ever. I'm going to let you do the facts from now on, Tyler. I don't like doing them.

Yeah, you know, it's not a muscle you're used to using. I had a lot of friends who were Wiccan and that's how I found Wicca. I tell people I'm Wiccan, but I'm not really doing spells. It was a thing that was just part of my identity. I wear the pannicle, which is the star in the circle. My parents were super chill with it. The only thing they didn't like was lighting candles and incense in their house, because they thought I was going to light their house on fire.

Too soon, Melissa. Wicca is an organized religion. I think it's 1971 Wicca got established by whoever decides those sorts of things as a religion. I think it's 1971. Wicca got established by whoever decides those sorts of things as a religion. You can get a pentacle put on your grave if you die in the military. One of the things with Wicca is that it purposely doesn't have a church. It's supposed to be connecting to the earth, however you see fit. So as Melissa explained it, pagan is just a general term meaning you believe in more than one god. So Wicca is technically under the umbrella of paganism.

And Melissa, she was always interested in religion and the concept of it. Even her undergraduate degree was in religious studies. I was like trying to figure out not only my own, but like how other people believed because my logic was always you can teach someone to think the way that you can, but having them believe the same way is a lot more difficult and it requires a different level of empathy. And I always really wanted to have a level of empathy for people on a deeper level than just kind of understanding how their brain clicked. Understanding religions just made sense to me. I went to Sedona recently and there's a lot of aging hippies,

which I think is absolutely the vibes for a lot of Wiccans. There's also a lot of Goths. There's a lot of people who are vampires. I put that in air quotes and I don't mean to belittle the vampire community. I haven't read Twilight so I don't know a lot about the vampire community. I just know that there's like a fair amount of overlap of Goths and witches and hippies. The queer and neurodivergent amount of us is very high. That Venn diagram is pretty much a circle. And when Melissa was 26 years old. My parents kicked me out.

They're not the villains in the story, but they're not great people either. So I move in with this guy that I was dating. His name is Chris. And when I move in with Chris I was diagnosed with bipolar. And when I got kicked out I had also lost my job. So I had no medical insurance. So I had to just stop taking all of the bipolar meds. And it sent me into like a really bad deep depression where I had a lot of anxiety. I started getting really scared of just leaving the house. I gained like a ton of weight. My max was 540 pounds. So I get this cat named Marbles. He's a rescue. He has a wonky eye. Once I got Marbles, had therapy, I lose 240 pounds and become a fitness instructor.

So it took me about three years. She even had a write up about it in Forbes magazine. And for those interested, we'll link it in the show notes. So after turning her life around, well, Melissa got a degree in therapy. And she and Chris... We get married. This is the time where I tell you that my husband works in finance. Yeah, we got married at the Ritz-Carlton in Battery Park.

I have a Wiccan ceremony. It's called a hand fasting. Basically during the ceremony you get your hands tied together with a rope. You jump over a broom. Now Chris was not Wiccan. He grew up Catholic. He went to Notre Dame. Go Irish.

Catholic high school. But he was OK with a wicked wedding because he's like, I don't want to have any more anniversaries. So he was just like, fuck it. And after we get married, we moved from Brooklyn to Connecticut on March 7th, 2020. COVID stuff started. We got locked down. I take every class that's available on Zoom, because what the fuck else am I going to do with my time? Meditation, spirituality, mindfulness, tarot, herbology, green witchcraft, sigils, like, you name it. They had a class for it. They had a class for it. They also have a thing called witch school. There's some Saturday nights.

And I would sit up here in my office and just chat with the same people in witch school. Yep. And this is how I find the witches. And in this online school, there are numerous teachers. And? One of them is Lux. Lux starts teaching all of the Norse stuff. Norse is Odin and Sif and Loki. If you've seen a Marvel movie, you have some familiarity with

the Norse deities. I'm taking a bunch of meditation classes because I suck at it. I have a very psychedelic experience with Freya. Freya is the Norse goddess of love and war. Definitely stood high, very trippy, it weirded me out. Norse has never really been my thing. I've always been what's called a Hellenic pagan. But once I have this experience with Freya, it's like, fuck it, I'll take the Norse ones. So when Lux is teaching the classes, she talks about two different kinds of Norse magic. One of them is called Save. This is where you got to pay attention, people, because otherwise you'll lose the broom. I'm confused thus far, but excited for the journey.

Save is a kind of trance magic. She also talks about Spa spa and spa is noticing patterns to better predict the future. It was just an application of observational skills and a little bit of math, right? So I'm like, oh I already do spa. I already noticed trends. I'm like, I'm going to hit up Lux for individual classes. I'm like, I'm going to hit up Lux for individual classes. I'm like, Lux, I want you to teach me spa. I don't know how this works, but I need you to teach me spa. She's not teaching it at all, but she decides to like take me on as her first.

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No, but of course, we're not blanket statement-ing that all of Wiccanism and Paganism is a cult, just like we don't call all of Christianity a cult, or the entire pole dancing community a cult, or every single acting class a cult, or Scientology a cult. Wait, actually...

Scientology, yeah, that one you can include. That's a cult, yeah. That one's for sure calling that a cult. Wait, actually. Scientology, yeah. That one you can include. That's a cult, yeah. That one's for sure calling that one a cult. In all seriousness, Melissa's story is merely her experience in a little coven, a Wiccan group that possibly turned into a cult. And started, well, innocently enough, with some simple classes. Like so many cults do. Totally.

Flyers and classes. Classes are $80 an hour. We meet once a week. I remember being like, oh, this is absolutely a deal. And then once she's kind of started with me, she started taking on other spa students, mainly Jade and Liz. So Jade and Liz, they both become a very important part of this particular story. A different Liz, obviously.

Obviously. And these three were instructed in the ways of Norse witchery by their teacher, Lux. She's very committed to the big picture of having Sath and the Norse beliefs accessible to people. I still think she's a good teacher. She is not a good therapist. She's got no credentials. I read a bunch of books and I googled some stuff and I read some academic articles and I'm charging you $90 a week. She describes that the training is split into three parts. All of them are connected to a rune because Norse people love the runes. A rune is a letter with magic associated. Is it? It's just an alphabet. People use them primarily within like witchy circles for either spellcraft or divination. Divination is like the technical term for fortune

telling. So that whole first session by its design mandated that these sessions weren't doing spells, they weren't lighting incense or meditating or praying to a god, they were like therapy. And the whole section, first section is know your internal bias so you can make better observations. So I had all these conversations that I recorded and then you'd write down what you thought that you said. And then you'd listen to the recording and then compare how accurate you were with what you said. Seeing her once a week, she gives me tasks and I do them throughout the week. Interestingly, one of the tasks was to limit family time to one and a half hours a week.

That doesn't sound culty to me, no. And then when I meet with her the next week, we review those tasks and then she gives me new ones or like ups the ante. Kind of like with the naked one. Slow down. The naked one. Tell us about the naked one. Each week I had to sit in front of a mirror naked because we have to know ourselves. So knowing our body is part of yourself. So why would you not look at yourself naked in the mirror for 20 minutes?

So why would you not look at yourself naked in the mirror for 20 minutes? I'm actually doing that right now In my friend's house here in Newport, and I think I prefer to know myself less to be honest with you. I Agree, and I'm grateful that I'm only seeing you from the chest Yeah, there's a mirror under the computer monitor. I don't think anybody should stare too long at their genitals in general. Yeah, and apparently from what she said is that she had to like start one week with just her clothes

and stare at her for 20 minutes, and then she had to strip down to her underwear for the week, and then she had to get completely naked for 20 minutes. I mean, it's kind of strange. I mean, I don't mind staring at others for 20 minutes naked, but I don't know if I want to stare at myself for 20 minutes naked. But you do want to stare at Rob for 20 minutes naked.

That's part of my contract, to be fair. I knew what I was signing up for. Another task that she gave me was like letting someone lead a conversation and just like stopping to ask questions. I remember just being like, Lux, what the fuck do you think a therapy session is? And she's like, you need to stop thinking about it as therapy. I'm like, but everything you're telling me to do, I'm already

doing. I was holding on to the fact that eventually it's gonna get witchy. Like eventually it's gonna be spells and shit. And it wasn't. It was just therapy and also talking about gods. And right now I don't need therapy. I would like to do witchy shit. This was like 2021. I'm in Connecticut. Chris is still working from home. I like to do richy shit. This was like 2021.

I'm in Connecticut, Chris is still working from home. I have had the shot and I apply for a job as a teen therapist for an outpatient program and I love it. It's absolutely fantastic. And she continued working on her degree. So I'm getting closer and closer to completing my hours. So I'm like, what do I want to specialize in? And I'm like, I really like cult stuff and like working with cult victims.

I don't see that much of a difference between teenagers and cult survivors. I know that sounds weird, but like both of them, your identity and your social circle are intertwined. You can study cults, guys, specialize in them, and yet still... find yourself one day in one. After about two years of working with Lux, it wasn't what I thought I was signing up for. But I'm going to school full time, I'm working full time, and I'm supposed to be doing all these very time intensive tasks.

So I tell Lux, I think this is time for me to leave. Next stop, manipulation town. And she's like, you're my first, Ed, you mean so much to me, we're gonna be doing save. So I'm like, alright, fine. I will do the save and we will see how it goes. Save is a type of trance magic. Basically, the way that it works is that someone falls into a state of trance where they go away and then either a deity or some other spirit that you are raising comes up and uses the body as a vessel to

usually talk, answer questions. Some use it to divine, some use it to talk to the dead, some use it to talk to gods. For Lux and the way that she taught us, we were only like having gods talk through whoever was under the trance. In honor of us like starting our second session, she gets an Airbnb in Bumfuck, upstate New York. It's literally like a farmhouse. We're all gonna meet each other in real life. The whole first meetup is 100% like, this is,

I'm actually doing the wishy-shy, right? Like, fuck yeah. This is what I signed up for, this is great, right? So we get in and we're supposed to be completely silent. We cannot talk to each other. We have a silent meal of grained Farina cream of wheat. According to Lux, this is a typical meal that was served to a Völler. So Völler is the group of Norse witches. A singular is a Völva, which is what I was looking at in the mirror for 20 minutes every single week. That's the best joke I'm gonna get. Oh, dirty vagina jokes. Looks like someone's honing in on your territory, Liz.

Welcome. I welcome her with open arms, Melissa. You are my people. So after dinner, Lux rings a bell. We finally get to talk to each other. We're all exhausted, it's 9 o'clock at this point. So we go to bed because we know that the next day is going to be crazy. So the next morning, after a breakfast of likely some kind of witchy oatmeal, the coven starts in on the save. There's four roles in save. The first was the leader, right? They're the ones who also, like, had the

lyrics to all the songs. Everybody else had to memorize them. The second person is the anchor. So the anchor is making sure that the protecting spirits are there. They're also checking for, like, the vibes of the room. There's also the tender, who is the person who is taking care of the person who's undergoing the trance. And the person who's undergoing the tr who is taking care of the person who's undergoing the trance. And the person who's undergoing the trance is called the horse. Cause they're just getting bred in basically.

So we just called them the horse. Funny, that was also my nickname in college. Oh. Just kidding mom. Just kidding mom. It was, it was bareback. No. Also kidding, also kidding. It was all night bareback. No. Also kidding. Also kidding.

It was all nighter. Oh, because I studied late into the night. That is why. Yeah. Pulled a lot of those. Yeah. I bet you pulled a lot of things. We had also already picked which god we were going to let into our body.

I had picked a goddess named Gulveg. She's also known as Have. She is associated with bees. The one north story that we have of her is that she gets lit on fire and survives. Again, too soon, Melissa, too soon. There's four steps in any saved session. So the first one is that you bring in these helping spirits,

which were snakes. The second part is you take the horse down and put them in the spine, and then you bring the deity into that person's body. And then the third part is like the fun question and answer period where you get to like talk to a god. And then the fourth part is waking up the horse to come back into their body. The first goes Jade but doesn't go well. Basically it didn't fully go through, it wasn't just the god, it was somebody else because obviously you're

open if you're going into your spine so we had to end it early. I go second. Lux says that I'm to inhale an herb that she put on a coal. She tells me it's henbane because at the time that's what the old voller used to use. And you're inhaling henbane and you just as they're singing the songs, they like take your consciousness. Horse fear not the pride, oh. Horse breathe up your rider. Let go, we will hold you as this place gets fainter, fainter.

Horse breathe up your rider. Horse breathe up your rider. Let go away here to hold you. Let this place get fainter, fainter. And this is where I get to describe horsing and it's still fucking weird. A voice came out of my mouth that was absolutely not mine. I was absolutely in a trance,

in zero control over what my body did or what my mouth did and I'm like I just have to kind of believe What Lux is saying and that this is Galvig inside my body answering these questions Which like if you're looking for like what validated this and kept you in and paying that $90 every single week That's absolutely fucking it Like what validated this and kept you in and paying that 90 dollars every single week, that's absolutely fucking it. Also what a fucking ego boost.

I get an Airbnb in upstate New York and I, with my friends, talk to gods. I'm a badass, right? Like it validates everything. But perhaps there was another reason they were communicating with gods. I didn't know at the time, but yeah, you're absolutely high. So Hen Bane is a narcotic. It slows down your heart rate and can stop your heart rate entirely. It wasn't absolutely used by Volar back in the day. Yes. Is it also 100% illegal?

And I don't know how Lux was getting it. Also yes. I'm literally getting high and talking to gods. Liz goes after me, she brings in the goddess that she chose, Jade goes again, and it absolutely works for her, but at this point each of these sessions is about two hours long, so we've done this at this point four times. So we're exhausted, it's late at night, you have to stand the whole time, unless you're horsing, which then you get the chair. You're singing the whole time, so my voice is hoarse, I'm dehydrated, it's a lot.

So we just kind of chill. Mead is part of the ritual. So I stupidly made the mistake of asking Melissa what mead is. Mead is like honey wine. You've never been to a ren fair, Liz? What is this? You've never been to a ren fair so you don't know what mead is? Honey wine.

Uh, somebody brought edibles. So I have like half an edible. Some giggling, drunk on mead, after a very exhausting day. This was my first ever edible, which I also think is funny, because I was 35. You know, when I was a kid, a child of the 80s, I knew exactly what subscriptions I had. Mad Magazine and Columbia House. 12 albums for a penny, right?

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Yeah, which for me means trading Twizzlers for high quality snacks like lesser evil popcorn. And the best part, everything gets delivered right to my door and I get savings on every single order. So if you're ready for a junk-free start to 2025, head to thrivemarket.com slash cult and get 30% off your first order plus a free $60 gift. That's T-H-R-I-V-E market dot com slash cult thrive market dot com slash cult. Use them guys. They're great. And this is a great offer. This message is sponsored by Greenlight. It's 2025 and you have lots to think about. Fun stuff like deciding where to take the

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Isn't it time for you to try it as well? So start your risk-free Greenlight trial today at greenlight.com slash Colt trial today at greenlight.com slash cult That's greenlight.com slash cult to get started greenlight.com slash cult So now this witchy foursome decides to take this show on the road kinda hopefully one day

So after this retreat I meet with Lux every Tuesday. Lux tells me that she's got two, I'm putting air quotes, paid gigs. We're getting paid to perform save for other people. One is in North Carolina. The other one is in Vermont. Both of these have room and board provided. The one in North Carolina is a beach house and like we'll get to stay at this house for I think it was five days.

The one in Vermont is the end of October and this is going to be a public event. Tickets are going to be sold. We would split it four ways and that's when I stopped going for my second masters because now I'm getting paid to be a witch. Quote unquote yes, paid to be a witch. Quote unquote, yes, paid to be a witch. Oh, gave up her master's degree to be a witch. But Sabrina would be proud. So after the first session, it's determined that me and Jade are the best horses.

The lineup for all of the events is Lux is the leader, Liz is the anchor, and whoever is not horsing is tending the other person. I don't know if this was by design, but it inherently creates a not great dynamic between me and Jade. And I noticed it very early on, like maybe you don't pit us against each other, where one is either the star of the show or just the supporting character, right? And in preparation for these supposed paid gigs, they do another save. It's once again in an Airbnb, so we're like up in the middle of nowhere. It's going to be Jade goes for Loki, I go for Freya, and then I go for Odin after a break.

We do Loki, lovely. He's a great deity to work with. The thing with Jade horsing Loki though, is that Loki, probably for Shits and Giggles, because that's what Loki does, wasn't talking out of Jade's mouth. He would only draw pictures. Jade's eyes are closed, but like drew a duck,

drew an airplane, so that was kind of cool. It goes well in that I absolutely was a vessel for Freya. The thing is, Freya does not like being in my body, and being inside my body, I remember I went out and I was just crying. My body was just profusely out of nowhere, bawling. So the third one is Odin. We do Odin. Odin gets in my body. Like he's mad with pretty much everybody there. He also says that like, I am the only person says that like, I am the only person who he will allow to horse him. The drive home from that particular Airbnb sesh was very weird. My emotions were all over the place. I remember at work like that Monday and Tuesday, my boss was like, something's up with you. Like you're not acting like yourself.

When I met with Luxe Tuesday night, I'm like, look, something's going on. And this is weird. And she tells me, oh, you probably didn't come all the way back. So it's just like me and a little bit of Odin chilling in my body for like the last two days. And I remember just being like, what the fuck? Like if we're gonna work Transmagic, which most witches know is like super sketchy, a lot don't even do it. At least let's try to be as safe with this as possible.

And she's just like, oh, just put some salt on your tongue, you'll be fine. And then she told me to take a bath. You know, honestly, taking a bath is certainly my cure for removing all the unwanted spirits from my psyche. Dare I ask if the two of you have finally bathed? Yeah, I recently had my annual bath, so maybe 350 days to go until the next one. Bathing in the glory of this podcast, but that is about it, Liz. Still haven't taken a bath.

I shower. Shame on you. During this summer get COVID for a second time and Chris is like look I don't want to keep getting COVID. You work with people. Quit your job. I'm like I don't really want to do that because I kind of like my job. I like working with teens but he definitely says it. Another thing that happened is my cat dies. And I'm very torn up by it. And I remember going into my session after Marvel's died, and Lux was like, he died because he knew that we were going to take care of you.

Which many things that Lux was saying at the time seemed super supportive. But when you take that like one step back, that's messed up. Lux is also trying to work out logistics for these two paid gigs. So she says that we all need to get cloaks from a random Etsy seller. She also wants to get them custom embroidered with our logo, which is just a gold bee on the back. So it's like $150 for a cloak, which is lame. Was I in a cult embroidered cloaks, anyone? We drive to North Carolina.

We're not getting any income for this, right? We're getting to be in the beach and do all the water stuff. But as it is the Outer Banks in September, it also gets hit with a tropical storm. The couple that owns the house is staying at the house while the four of us are there, along with their grandson. Because it's one thing to like stay in a beach house, and it's another thing to like wake up in your pajamas in a beach house, and there's a couple on the couch and their grandson sleeping in the living room, right? And that's basically what happened.

So not the paradise vacation she was envisioning. But they did have their promised save. We do Odin the night of the first full day. It goes fine and it is a pretty standard safe session. We're just like, all right, well, let's like do some divination and some like rituals and get witchy about it. And every single thing that we do, Lux keeps bringing back to, I need to quit my job. I kept mentioning how much I like being a therapist. But by this point, the girls were living and dying by Lux's word. So the day that I decide I'm gonna tell my boss

that I quit the job, like every song on the radio, I'm looking at a sign from Freya. Freya is making its play, Desert As You Gotta Be. -♪ You gotta be, you gotta be bad, you gotta be bold, you gotta be wiser. I was like, yep, this is Freya telling me I'm making a good decision by quitting my job. I absolutely would not have quit my job if I hadn't been for Lux.

But I did quit before I got my full license, and that is absolutely a very big regret that I have. And now finally, after all this training. And some potent drugs. The quote unquote paid event is finally here. There's a strict dress code for Vermont. Everybody has to wear all black, except for Jade, who is the horse. The cloaks are necessary.

My $150 cloak. We do the event. We're the cloaks for about five minutes, right? Then we did like divination after. I didn't horse anybody, it was just Jade. I'm the one who was like the backup horse. But there was always this Jade is the better horse than you are. Everybody who paid for the event is talking to Freya. They're allowed one question, because we're a fair amount of people, probably around 30, 30 to 50 I would say. We take the offerings at the end and we like do this bonfire,

we're taking all the offerings for Freya and putting them in the bonfire. Lux gives us a gift. She says that she has tattoo needles from a tattoo that she got with her ex-girlfriend, and that because we have replaced that level of love in her life, she now would like to make the tattoo needles as an offering to Freya. She gave us each a used tattoo needle to throw into this bonfire. Oh, what? Yeah, yeah, that's quite an offering.

Ugh. Now remember, these are professional witches, which means they get paid, right? After the event, we get paid $93. So my, well, I should say my share was like $93. And poor Melissa gave up her master's degree because she was told she was going to make tons of money being a witch. I knew before I quit my job that if I am quitting,

a dog is a requirement. We got a puppy. He's a Havanese. His name is Bennett. He's adorable. But having a puppy is rough. And Lux sees that in some of our first sessions back. The whole time, Ben's barking in the background

and she's like, how do you stand this? But she was, for a solid month, I want to say, you need to get rid of the dog. Then she would do the runes and divination and say, don't you understand that Ben would be happier with a different family? I'll get you my pretty and your little dog too Liz that's very witchy hell of a cackle. This is also when she says She spends the time after every session with me

Wondering whether or not she should keep me on as a student. And this is where I start to like not fully trust Lux. Meanwhile, we have not had a task for me to do for months at this point. Right now Lux doesn't have her in her control. So what better way to regain control over someone? Put them down. Make them feel small. I'm also not working, right? We have zero paid gigs. I would like to get paid. Also,

around this time, Luck starts saying that she wants us all to have this custom made authentic Norse outfit that's like $125. I'm immediately like, absolutely the fuck not. I spent $150 for cloak that I wore for five minutes for a gig that paid me $93. I am not paying definitely more than $125 for an authentic Norse outfit when we have zero paid gigs lined up, even though Luck said that we were gonna have all of these gigs, so we're like, we should probably start

practicing. We meet up again to perform save at Liz's house. Once again, Jade does Loki, he does not talk, he draws a bunch of pictures, he tells us that we're a bummer and that he doesn't want wanna be around us. And that if we're gonna meet him again today, that we need to be more fun. And I'm supposed to horse for Loki, right? Loki is awesome, but he says specifically, I don't like being Jade's body

because I don't like her voice. I'm using this horse's voice because I like her voice better. So once again, showing that I'm a very good horse, right? That's such a weird statement to make, but yeah, very good horse. Good on me. Boki's very animated. He like moves around a lot. It's like a whole thing. He kicked Liz's dog, right? In my body. Which, we have a thing called the contract, it's like a thing that a god is not allowed to do when they're in your body. It definitely violated the contract, but we kept going. That's when I started coming back,

but I still was absolutely not 100% back, right? Lux gets really frustrated and is like, back, right? Lux gets really frustrated and is like, Loki's already gone and barely does any of the wake-up stuff, which once again, this is Trance Magic. Not great to leave someone hanging like that. After the ritual is over and we're cleaning up, I realized I'm in the same situation that I was in six months ago with Odin. And I'm like, I don't wanna have Loki in my body for two days and I can't get rid of him. So I was just like, oh no, Lux,

like we need to use some of the other stuff to help bring me back. And Lux like reluctantly did it. But I remember just being like, I shouldn't have to ask you for this. So the other witches, Liz and Jade, they are quite crafty, right? They've been making things like soap and candles. And Melissa, well, she didn't really have that gift. So when I quit, I was like, all right, I'm gonna like declutter my house. And this is when I'm like, oh, I have a bunch of essential oils in my house. I shit you not from 2007. And that's when Lux is like, use them to

make perfume. Liz keeps telling me I need to have a craft, I need to have a craft. Eventually, I'm like, alright, I'm gonna make perfume. But the moment I say like, okay, I'm starting to make perfume, Lux is like, we have an event in three weeks, let's launch your perfume there. So she wants Norse names on all of the perfumes. And I'm like, three weeks is not a lot of time to learn the entire art of perfumery and create enough perfume for me to sell to people. Lux makes every single individual session about perfume, specifically perfumes she wants me to make for her, right? Like, what, what happened? We're all just like, making stuff at this point.

And I'm like, what happened to us getting paid to do save? And I'm like, this was a terrible mistake. I'm also starting to freak out because she told me in March how far behind I am, right? And we've had six weeks now of just talking about perfume. I say, hey, I would like to go back to the tasks. And she like says that she doesn't know why she even bothers giving me tasks since I never do them. Meanwhile, she hasn't really told me any tasks since I never do them. Meanwhile, she hasn't really told me any tasks since like August. I left that particular session really frustrated,

but also realizing that starting this perfume company, so I'm hammering money at this point. And I remember just being like, I'm paying you to make you a custom perfume. I'm like, that's not something I wanna do. So I make the decision to leave and I just kind of say, this is just not working out for me.

Luck starts crying. Once again, I'm her first. Don't I understand how important that is? And I'm just like, no, I'm leaving. So she says that I need to tell the group chat with the other two girls. I'm like, all right, fine. So I say, I am making the decision to leave the group. I'm sorry, but I just need to kind of do what's best for me at this time.

And then it's crickets. And that's like the last time I hear from any of them. So I'm like, I need some guidance. So I think I paid for a divination session with Dakota. That's when I find out like Hen Bane's super, super dangerous. And it's more than just a narcotic, like I absolutely could have died. Hen Bane, which is also known as the Devil's Eye or Stinking Nightshade. That's what I was called in college.

Yeah, that was your thing, man. It's because you ate way too many eggplants and you never took a shower. Yeah, I bathed once a year. Oh, okay, back to the Henbane, Stinking Nightshade. It has been used historically in witchcraft for flying ointments and hallucinogenic spells. As Melissa said, in large doses it's not just trippy, my god, it is deadly.

It contains tropane alkaloids which are highly toxic. In small doses it causes hallucinations, delirium and altered states of consciousness, but in large doses it can lead to respiratory failure, coma and death. Ancient Greeks and Romans used henbane as poison, and in medieval times it was used in potions that were both ritualistic and dangerous. But as you recall, that wasn't the only dangerous item that Lux brought along.

Dakota's just like, you touched a used tattoo needle? And I'm like, correct. Dakota also, as a person who's been a part of the larger witchy community, tells me a bunch of the red flags that Lux was doing that in the witch community are just general no-no's. One of the things is most witch teachers only meet individually with their students once a month. Most don't require anything financially, right? And then this is the biggest one.

Your spiritual life and your secular life should always be separate. Your witch teacher can tell you, hey, maybe do this spell or petition this saint, but your witch teacher should not tell you to get rid of your dog or quit your job At this point in time I'm like is it culty is it not culty I think if I Admit that I was in a cult. I also have to acknowledge that Lux wasn't the greatest person I just want to hold on to the fact that like the whole thing wasn't manipulative and it just got weird at the end and that Lux was not this monster.

It just got screwed up along the way. I just want to point out that this is a very common feeling slash response after leaving a manipulative situation. Coming to terms with the reality of who they really are is quite difficult. And I'm telling everything to my friend, and she's like, oh, no, this is absolutely a cult. Like, this is some crazy ass shit. You were doing drugs in the woods. Like, let's be real.

This was 100% a cult. And again, cults are not all black and white. There are shades of gray. Another thing to me that's been super hard is not throwing the baby out with the bathwater. Everything that I do, I think, has an element of witchcraft in it, and it doesn't need to be as structured. I still have a bunch of altars to Loki, Odin, Tyr on this side, I've got Golveig, Sif, and Hel on this side, and I've got like three to Freya all over my house, because she's

a bomb. But I'm not limiting myself to just Norse anymore. I don't know if S.A.V.E. is ever going to be something that I do again, which does kind of suck, because talking to Cos was pretty fun, especially Loki, who was totally a baller. Well, Loki's not the only baller, because Melissa, well, you're pretty badass as well.

Damn right she is. She and I went through a cult checklist together just to go over her experience, you know, financial exploitation, thought reform, questioning, single leader, secret knowledge, fear-based control, isolation, etc., etc., all of which Melissa confirmed yes to. And then she shared this. To bring it back to your podcast, I remember getting fucked up while cooking dinner once because you interviewed Johnny Lollich, who once again have loved for years, and she said,

Colts, take everything away from you so they can build you back up in their image. And I remember just being like, I had a job, I had a career, I had a life, and now I don't. But update, she does! Last week she texted me and said that she got a call from her old boss and is getting her old job back, which we are so happy for and excited about. She even said she mentioned this podcast to her boss, so one more listener. No, but that's great, Melissa. We are so glad you're back doing what you love. Yeah.

And as for the rest of her coven. The cult is still going. It's still just Lux, Liz, and Jade at this point. They were still recruiting people. They were still looking for gigs, but didn't have any. The cults are a thing. And if anything, the structure of paganism and its lack of hierarchy means it is rife with the possibility of abuse. So be careful, my witchy friends.

But there was some positivity to come out of this cult. So Sif's Kniffs is the name of my perfume company. It is very successful. Right now it's very much like a part-time job while I can be home and be a wife. Now I go to renfairs, I go to witch events, people will be like, how did you get started into perfumery? And I'm like, well, my cult leader told me I needed to start a perfume company, so I did. I called later told me I needed to start a perfume company, so I did

And well there it is folks her story the witch story This story. Yes the witch story her story story. I just told you Editors note this is like a hundred year old comedy bit and this went on for way too long So I'm gonna cut it right here Thank you everyone for joining us this week on for way too long so I'm gonna cut it right here. Thank you everyone for joining us this week. It feels good to be back and thank you Melissa again for telling your tale, sharing your story with us. Which story? Shhh Tyler.

Which story? Again I'm sorry listeners I'll have a talk with them we can't keep doing stuff like this. We have a rad episode next week and I do not use the term rad lightly. No, next week is fantastic. It's a story of a woman who was in an orange county cult of multiple personalities. A new agey cult. Some of the women in the group believed that their parents were secret Satan worshippers, and so I saw their contrainds of what they thought they

remembered from when they were nine or ten months old of their parents like putting them on some sort of altar and like doing terrible things to them. And so I had these really intense scary images in my head. I didn't understand what sex was yet. I certainly didn't understand it from an adult point of view. And yet everything around was always about sex, but it was deviant. ["Sexy Girl"]

Thank you, Melissa, for hanging out with me over the holidays. Go get her perfume, guys. Go get her perfume guys. Go get her perfume. Yep. Was I Nicole? Is written, produced and hosted by me, Liz. The High Priestess, Hayakuzy.

And me, Tyler Warlock-Meesom. Sound design and edit by Rob Magic Circle-Pera. Assistant editor is Greta. So moat it be, Stromquist. And our executive producer is Steven Coven. Sounds like oven, Labrum. Coven sounds like oven. Thank you everyone for listening

and stay safe out there Los Angeles, would ya? Don't spare my life. Crucify me. See that horse over there? It's dead. Go beat it. The horse, your nickname horse? Because everybody liked to ride me. Oh, that's actually not true.

I had a very long-term boyfriend in college. Who I cheated on every weekend with, the football team with. I know. for everyone and it's totally free. You can binge laugh out loud sitcoms like Frasier and re-watch cult classics like Higher Learning. Whether you're in the mood to solve a little crime before bedtime with NCIS or Tracker or curl up with a surefire hit like Forrest Gump. Pluto TV has thousands of movies and shows all for free. Pluto TV, stream now, pay never. This guy was as cold and calculated as they come. Maybe we weren't going to get it solved. It was like the epitome of innocence that had been preyed upon.

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And sometimes, how it doesn't. We have to find whoever this monster is. Go in-depth into chilling cases and their conclusions in this new true crime series. You just have a pit in your stomach thinking how many people are we going to find. New episodes of American Justice are available every Wednesday, wherever you get your podcasts.