Was I In A Cult? - Armstrongism: “Saving For the Feast”

Episode Date: February 3, 2022

A humble upbringing is an understatement for Dan McIntrye. Canada born and bred, Dan's cult journey took him from guitar god, to free desserts to cult escape, only to land him right in the arms of... another one?     A double survivor. A triple thriver. And one extremely nice guy. Damn, Canadians, you really are as kind as they say.   --------   Link to Dan's song "Any Given Sunday"   Listen to Tyler guest on the "Latter-Day Lesbian" podcast!   Think you were in a cult? Contact us to be on the show: [e-mail]   Follow us: Instagram @wasiinacult Please support Was I In A Cult? Through PatreonSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Hey guys, if you love us and this show, please consider making a small contribution to our Patreon page. Yes, please visit was I and a cult.com to help us. It could be very small, like how small, Tyler. Like a thousand dollars a week. It's just simple as that to help pay for our editor, and our soft chairs, and our sound mix-in-these headphones, to make us sound better. You guys should hear what we sound like in real life. Whoa! It is a disaster. You don't want to hear that podcast. Tyler's balls actually never troped

so he actually sounds like this in real life. We have a lot of work in the post-production of this show. Yeah, to bring up my balls. Nobody we actually do. So in all honesty, we could never do the show without your love and support, so we appreciate you guys a lot. A rare moment of sincerity from Liz I accuracy. Please note this episode references suicidal attempts. One of the things that strikes me when listening to this show is just how many cult leaders came along thinking the world was going to end roughly around the same time.

All these people came and went with their messages of doom and gloom, and then this generation of kids was left holding the bag when it turned out it was all bullshit. They were so convinced that the world was going to end that they didn't really bother to raise their kids. Welcome to Was I in a Cult? I'm Tyler Miesom. And I'm Liz I Cusie, and yes, the answer you guys is yes. We were in cults. And so were our guests, whom we like to think of as survivors and thrivers, not victims.

And so do they. For too long, those who have found themselves in cults have been pigeonholed into a certain type of human. And we hope by now, listeners, if you've taken anything from this show it's that there is not one type of human who ends up in a manipulative cultic environment and there is not one type of cult and this week's story comes to us from Canada our friendly neighbors to the north in previous episodes we've had some fun with you Canada but we love you and appreciate your listeners I could drink a case of you Canada and still be on my feet I did I did have a lovely chat with Dan. the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the tap ta. ta. ta. I can can can can't is. tipe. tipe. tip. I can. I can. I can. I can. I can't. tip. I can't still be on my feet. I did have a lovely chat with Canada, Danda. Dan, Dan from Canada.

Danida. And he definitely came the most prepared of any of our guests. Now you're going to make our other guests feel bad, Tyler. Purify me. Don't spare my life. Crucify me. It's a pleasure to meet you, Dan. Oh, man. Yeah, I just, I really appreciate you taking the time to hear my story. It's because the title of the show is the very question that I spent, like, the tie- like, the tie-up. thanks, like, thanks, like, the yeah, I just, I really appreciate you taking the time to hear my story. It's because the title of the show was the very question that I spent like years asking myself was, was I in a cult?

So I was born in the fall of 1986. I was born in Prince George in Northern British Columbia Canada, which is a very blue collar city of about 80,000 people. Lots of forestry, it reeks like pulp mill, has a bad reputation for crime rates, and it's kind of a mess. It sounds lovely though. So I have one sister, she's three years older than me. We lived in a tiny log cabin on a five acre ranch, just outside of city limits. There was no master bedroom, no nothing.

Like you'd walk in, there'd be a couch on the left, a fireplace on the right, my parents' bed right in the middle. And my sister and I shared a bunk bed in this tiny room, no bigger than the bunk bed, with literally just a fireplace, heating the cabin. So I would be chopping wood in sub-zero temperatures to bring it in to get this fire going. We were in extreme poverty.

We would collect pop cans to afford food. My mom was this artsy lady and she was a hoarder with this really eclectic decorating style. Our house looks like something out of Harry Potter. My dad had incredibly repressed anger issues, and most of the time I understood why. He had really aggressive muscular dystrophy. It couldn't have been easy, like having your body betray you like that in the prime of your life.

There are many types of muscular dystrophy, but essentially it's a muscle disease, causing the muscle to weaken, sometimes to the point of immobility. One of the biggest repraisals I've ever done in my adult life was realizing what my dad actually put my mom through. My mom wanted to be a dancer and an artist, but now she was a caregiver to a disabled husband and a mother of a three-year-old and a newborn in a log

cabin in the middle of nowhere. So when I was really young, my mom tried committing suicide with painkillers and alcohol. And things got really, really bad after that. She got delusional. She thought she was one of the two witnesses from the end times and the Bible. But one way the family found comfort was by going to church. To the worldwide church of God. Hundreds of people went to this church in Prince George alone.

Like potlucks were row upon row of tables. There were multiple hockey teams. That is so Canadian. There were summer camps, dances, everything. But the actual religious organization itself was massive. This organization had its own radio program, television program, a college called an ambassador college, various publications and magazines. This entity, the Worldwide Church of God, was also known as Armstrong because it was started by a man named Herbert Armstrong. What kind of name is Herbert?

A really good one. If you have a name that rhymes with Sherbert? Sherbert. Sherbert's underrated. I want to name my kid, Herbert. Herbert W.R.R.R. Herbert W.R. Armstrong was born in Des Moines, in a Quaker family. He had an early career in like print and advertising. In the 1917s, he met a lady by the name of Loma Dylan, who was a schoolteacher,

and I think they married that same year. And one day, while driving, Loma had a vision. The sky cracked open, angels bathed in white came down and said that soon Christ is returning and we have some important work for you guys to do to pave the way before it happens. The Armstrongs took this as a sign and... Herbert Armstrong became an ordained minister of that church in the seventh day Adventist Church he was an ardent student of the Bible and eventually realized with some strong persuasion from his visionary wife that...

Mainstream Christianity had gotten it wrong. That it was fundamentally wrong. Take a number, bra. You ain't the first to have that thought. Herbert built his ideology and then he took it to the airwaves in 1933 when he was offered a preach and slot on a, 100-watt radio station out of Eugene, Oregon. A small slot on a small station with big repercussions. It almost seemed to lend them more credibility just because they were on the radio. You have to understand, radio at the time was a very novel and new concept. Commercial radio was only about a dozen years old, with the first licensed radio station, KDKA,

launching on November 2, 1920 to less than 100 listeners. The first words uttered, quote, Is anybody listening? Which is how Tyler feels, whenever he speaks. You're listening. I have to. Because you've got nowhere to go. This is my job.

But Armstrong, they listened. He used his savvy as an advertiser, paired with the medium of radio, and mimeographed newsletters to preach his unique and impassioned radio church. Quite literally named the Radio Church of God. Greetings, friends of the Radio Church. This is Herbert Armstrong speaking today on what is prophesied now to come.

With his calming voice mixed with fear-based ideology, projections of world wars and dismissals of science, his audience started to grow. When he said that this is the beginning of sorrows, just the beginning of trouble and of sorrows in the world today. Eventually his sermons were broadcast nationwide from a 50,000 watt station out of Iowa. And in 1946 he moved to Pasadena, California. Hey, that's where I live.

that's where I live. that's where I live. Armstrong eventually changed the name of his church from Radio Church of God to the Worldwide Church of God. Fucker setting up franchises. I characterize him in my own mind as basically like the Walt Disney of cult leaders. Armstrong eventually had his convincing dogma broadcast

not only on radio, but on over 400 television stations worldwide in a show called The World Tomorrow, which sounds like a soap opera. But he had more stations than Jerry Falwell, Jimmy Swaggart, Oral Roberts, and Jim Baker. And if you don't know who the hell those people are, just insert old white male televangeljalyst here. Picture him, now you deal. Under effect, two absolutely unthinkable world events are going to occur in the approximate future.

First, the unthinkable nuclear World War III that could annihilate all civilization is definitely going to come. From Herbert's wide-reaching electronic pulpit, he was more than able to spew his interpretations of the Bible mixed with false prophecies and sprinkled with a dash of white supremacy. All the good stuff, including the idea that the inhabitants of the United States and Britain were direct descendants of the tribe of Ephraim and the tribe of Manassah. The idea being that it basically put a bunch of old white dudes at the center of biblical prophecy. It must be said, however, that this theory is inconsistent with the findings of modern research on the genetic

history of the Jews. Armstrong also preached that only God can heal humans and that medical science is pagan, telling his followers to avoid seeing doctors except for things like broken bones. And sadly there are many instances of his followers dying because they did not seek proper medical attention. Why do doctors take such a beating in cults? Yeah, what is it? What did science do to you, cult leaders? Yeah, what's up man? Just trying to save your damn life. Build some medicine, take us to the moon!

The second major key is Armstrong believed that Jesus' sacrifice didn't negate or fulfill old Lovitical law. Which means that they essentially threw out the New Testament as scripture and they observed the Lovitical Holy Days, which among other things means to observe clean and unclean meat laws. Keep the Sabbath Day holy and observe strict, sexual purity laws. All the hits you can expect from Lviticus.

Premarital sex was strictly forbidden. Homosexuality strictly forbidden. Masturbation strictly forbidden. If you do this you're going to be thrown into a lake of fire. Oh, the old lake of fire. Yeah, the old lake of fire. Yeah, the old lake of fire. Really? Can there be a lake full of fire? Yeah, you'd think the water in the lake would put the fire? So it should be called a pit. A pit. the the the the the the the the the the th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. thi thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thrown, thrown, thro, thro, thrown, thro, thro, thro, th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. the, thr, thr, thr, the, th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. the, the, the, the, thr. If, thr. If, thr. If, thr. thr. If, to to to to to toea. toea. toea. toea. toea. Ma. toea. Mast, thr. Mast be called a pit. A pit of fire. No, but it's a lake. Full of fire. It's also a great Nirvana song. It is. There's that. Ah, that's a ring of fire. That's a ring. That's a ring of fire. Johnny Cash actually had it right. Armstrong. Also makeup and divorce were a sin, as well as long hair for men and short hair for women. The third major key was that Herbert W. Armstrong believed that he was the end times apostle.

Not one of many but like the guy. In his worldview it went God, Jesus Christ, Herbert W. Armstrong. God, Jesus, and a random dude from Iowa. The fourth major key was that the end times were supposed to be in 1975, and that the only people saved from it would be th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, thi, thi, thi, thake, the the the the the the the the the the thake, the, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the th, th, th, th, thi, thi, thi, thi, thek, thek, their, tha, tha, tha, tha, tha, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi,. The fourth major key was that the end times were supposed to be in 1975, and that the only people saved from it would be, let me guess, Armstrongians. The one true church, the first fruits of the Worldwide Church of God, and that we'd all rise up as literal gods with new and perfect bodies. Once again, a doomsday that failed to occur. And for Dan's parents, tha tha' tha' tha' tha' tha' tha' tha' tha' tha' the's thiiia' thia' thia' thia' thia' thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. the thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. the thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. the. th. the. the. the. toe. toe. toe. And, toe. And, toeeee. toean. toean. toean. toean. toean. thean. theananann. And, theanomsday that failed to occur. And for Dan's parents, they took this personally.

They seemed legitimately angry that they were still alive. These two people wanted so badly to give the world the middle finger, but they never got their hot day in the sun, so they took it out on their kids, literally daily. There was basically two distinct versions of my parents. My dad was in a relatively successful local band and they would play weddings and a few festivals, even in his condition still playing like that. It was really cool. He was this talented, charismatic, smart, hilarious guy. He talked guitar at the College of New Caledonia, but behind closed doors at home, he was angry all the time.

My mom very clearly didn't want kids, like very clearly, from the way she acted, from the way she blamed us for her life not being what she wanted it to be. She literally beat my sister and I daily for no reason at all. I remember one day at school it was like grade two or three, me and my friends were talking about being spanked and all the things we'd get spanked for the taun'er. And they were like, yeah, I get smacked on the butt sometimes. I was talking about being whipped with garden hoses or slammed into the refrigerator, or beat with wooden the the the their the in their thee and I the and I the and spoons for hours straight and I'll never forget the way they looked at me where I was like maybe my house isn't

normal. It messed both my sister up in totally different ways. I became like a big troublemaker in elementary school. I was somewhere between like class clown and that kid that just wouldn't shut up, like the most annoying kid. Herbert Armstrong died in 1986, and yes, prior to his death, he did see doctors who prolonged his life. And not surprisingly, after his death, the church was thrown into turmoil. There was infighting over succession, massive wars over publication rights, families falling apart, there were allegations of sexual abuse, financial abuse, and then in 1995 everything changed where basically there was this massive split in the church headed up by the senior leadership. They finally decided that Armstrong's interpretations were wrong and that they missed

the grace of Christ, etc., etc. So they elected for a doctrinal shift they missed the grace of Christ, etc., etc. So they elected for a doctrinal shift to make the worldwide church of God more like mainstream Christianity. Armstrong's writings were disavowed and he was declared a false prophet and a heretic. Many of the followers simply left the church, but... But a lot of people weren't ready to make that shift. My parents included, there was this splinter group formed called the United Church of God

that would carry the torch of Armstrongism. And Dan's parents, well, they sided with them. They became members of the United Church of God. But in Dan's community, there were very few. It was literally a dozen people. But these people were the rebels, the true believers, the fighters and the activists, right? It was basically just like a bunch of old board people waiting around for the end times. Not even enough to field a hockey team. On Saturday I would load my dad up into the van,

drive downtown. We were renting this Ukrainian dance hall, downtown, for this weekly services. We'd roll in, set up the chairs, set up the podium. We didn't have a pianist, so the accompaniment for the hymns was on tape. There's 12 people in this big dance hall singing these old hymns about smiting our enemies and casting judgment on people, whatever. And then there'd be a sermonette, there'd be announcements, a sermon. That was it.

Everyone would swap hunting stories and Tim Bits and hit the road. Tim Bits are Canada's bite-sized donuts. They're named after the hockey player Tim Horton, Tim Bits. Tim Bits. Fun to eat, fun to say. Tim played 24 seasons in the NHL and then he founded a very popular chain of fast food stores in Canada called Tim Hortons. Tim died in a car crash in 1974, but his name is plastered everywhere with over 4,800 stores in 14 countries and in each one of them you can find Tim Bits. Liz? I don't like donuts Tyler. What do you mean you don't like

donuts? I'm sorry I don't kill me but I hate donuts. I've hated them since I was a child. Fine I guess we won't be snacking on Lizbits any times. What would be in a Lisbett? Please write us and tell us what you guys would want to be in a LisbizbizB bits. Liz. Liz b in. to be to be to be to be to be to be in a to be to be to be to be in a to be to be to be in a to be to be to be in a to be to be in a to be to be to be to be to be to be to be tom. Lizbets. Liz bits. Liz bits. Liz bits. Liz bits. Liz bits. Liz bits. Liz bits. Liz bits. Liz bits. Liz bits. Liz bits. Liz bits. Liz bits. Liz bits. Liz bits. Liz bits. t. Liz bits. t. Liz bits. t. Liz bits. t. t. t. t. t. t. t. t. t. t. t. t. t. t. t. t. t. t. thea ti. tom. ti. ti. tom. tom. tom. tombs. tmiss. tmiss. tmiss. tmissed. tmisse. tom. tom. tom. tom. tom. tom. be in Elizabeth? Please write us and tell us what you guys would want to be in Elizabeth. Please don't. Sarcasm and yoga pants. That's basically a Lisbeth. That sounds delicious. I basically spent my entire childhood being taught that people were like evil and people were no good and they were all going to burn in the Lake of Fire except for these 12 people that went to this church up on a hill. The church was small but the rules they were the same.

The most strict rules in Armstrongism were directly correlated to the keeping of the holy days. For instance, the days of unleavened bread was this week where we would have to completely rid our entire property of any and all yeast and leavening agents. The day of atonement was just a literal fast, like from sunset to sunset could need any food or drink anything. Armstrong had taught a form of savatarism, basically keeping the Sabbath day holy. Which they believed started on Friday at sunset and ended at sunset on Saturday. It was really strict.

Basically as soon as sunset hit on Friday, it was like TV's off, you know how to be home, my parents might sing hymns or something like that, and we couldn't do any work. That included like social activities, dances. And it wasn't the only thing that kept him apart from his classmates. In Armstrongism, Halloween, Christmas, Valentine's Day were all considered to be pagan. So when there were school activities involving like holiday crafts or things like that, I always had to sit out. I made friends with a lot of like Jehovah Witness kids because they weren't doing it either.

Cults befriending other cults. Our rarity. I made friends with a lot of like Jehovah Witness kids because they weren't doing it either. Cults befriending other cults. Our rarity. My grandma, out of pity, would send us boxes of Christmas presents, and my parents would mostly just throw it all out. We actually weren't supposed to celebrate birthdays either. But for some reason. My dad bought me a guitar for my fourth birthday. You know those 80s guitars, they don't have a head stocke. th. they. they. they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they're they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they But for some reason. My dad bought me a guitar for my fourth birthday.

You know those 80s guitars, they don't have a headstock, it's chopped off. Totally. And you string it from the bottom? Yeah. One of those new wave-looking things is really fun. And I played it for hours and hours every single day. I just basically taught myself how to do it and learned by ear. For show and tell in grade one, I brought in my electric guitar and a little portable battery

operated amp clipped in my belt and I played this song called Walk Softly by the Kentucky time in my life where people actually looked at me in a different light. And before long, guitar became my way of communicating, because I had terrible social skills as a kid. In my early teenagers, I just found a drummer, my good friend Jesse, and we wrote and jammed every single day and his house became like a sanctuary to me. I could go there for hours and end and leave the worries of my house behind me. It wasn't long before my friend Jesse and I started getting invited to play at house parties. We would show up to these crazy house parties

with a list of like 40 songs like Blink 182, some 41 whatever, good Charlotte and we would run our list and we'd run it again until we lost our voices and everyone was blacked out or whatever. So Canadian. Eventually Jesse and Dan started a band called Valor Road. We played at the school, would play school dances for our own school. We headlined Canada Day for the city with like 11,000 people in this park. I was like 16 at the time, the classic rock band Nazareth was coming to town. And I get this phone call from the music store that we had a sponsorship with. And he says, Dan, what are you doing tonight?

And I was like, nothing, hi? And he says, okay, how would you guys like to open for Nazareth tonight? Sound checks in four hours. So I call her other guitarist. He's working at Staples. His name's Tyler. I say, Tyler, drop everything to open for Nazareth tonight? As a 16-year-old hearing that exact phrase name and all would have given me teenage twitter patient. We got up there and everyone at first like we're literally laughing at us. They were like, what the fuck? Who are these kids?

And we did our thing and it went over really, really well. But as you might imagine, Dan didn't have fans everywhere. When the church found out that I was like leading this double life, moonlighting as a local rock star, I got a lot of pushback for it because it was like I was fraternizing with demons or whatever. Demons? His supportive bandmates? His fans?

I realized that the people I was told were evil were actually the most supportive people in my whole world. Like I couldn't go to the local mall without literally signing autographs. And then I'd go home to this weird Harry Potter-looking house, cabin in the middle of nowhere, and my parents are fuming about this religion and how the world's about to end and how everyone sucks and everyone's terrible. It was the weirdest thing. Perhaps fortunately for Dan, his parents were pretty clueless to his Kirk Cobain alter ego. They didn't really know what I was doing. They were very disconnected. So he kept pleasing the fans and making some dough to boot, which was nice because his his parents didn't have much.

Actually, they had less than much, because... They were giving all their money to this church and had barely anything left to support. My sister and I, my sister and I were always, always hungry. The biggest problem, too, was the way the church was structured. There was two tithes in Armstrongism. There was first tithe and second tithe was 10 percent percent was that was that was that was that was that was that was that that that percent percent percent percent percent percent percent percent percent percent percent percent percent percent percent percent percent percent percent percent percent percent percent percent percent percent percent percent percent percent percent percent percent percent percent that was that was that was that was that was that was that was that was that was that was that was that was that was that was that was that was that was that was that was that was that was that was that was th was th was th was that was that was that was that was that was that was that was that was that was that was that was that was that was that was that was that was that was that was that was that was that was that was that that th, th, th, th, th, th, th first tith and second tithe. First tith was 10% that went to the church and second tithe was 10% that went towards saving up for the feast of tabernacles. The feast of what? There was a week out of every single year that symbolized basically the

end times and Christ return. And in the book of Loviticus what they would do is they would go to dwell dwell dwell dwell in to dwell to dwell to to to to to to the the the their their their their their their their their their their their their their to to to to to toe in toe in toe in toe in the church their toe in toe in toe in to the church to the church to the church to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to the church the church the church the church the church the church the church the church the church the church the church the church the church their their their their their their their. te. And te. And te. And te. And te. te. te. te. te. te. te. te. te. te. teate. te. te. te. te. te end times and Christ's return. And in the book of Loviticus, what they would do is they would go dwell in tents, and basically there'd be a feast and they'd celebrate and everything. The modern day Armstrong interpretation of this was that every year the church would appoint feast sites always in vacation destinations, like Jamaica, Florida. The one we always went to was in the Okanagan and Pantickton and later in Colonna. Basically all the members were saving up 10% of their yearly income, at least for these feast days. So they saved for a yearly feast, but let their children starve the rest of the year.

It's called logic. The feast would last seven days. Everyone rolled into town. And they had seven to to to to to to to to to to to the to their their to their their their their to their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their to to the year. It's called Logic. The feast would last seven days. Everyone rolled into town and they had seven days to literally spend that money, party down, enjoy each other's company. We saved up all year long, regardless of what it did to us financially, and then we'd roll in, and the red carpet was out for this cult. All these restaurants, all these hotels, all these hotels, all these hotels were booked solid with church members.

And they catered to you. A server would come up to you and be like, are you with the church? And you'd be like, yeah, and they'd send over a dessert or something, because they know that you can tip, because you've been saving up all year. And then the pastors, they would use that. We are the first fruit, we are the chosen people. Because nothing says chosen people

like a free brownie overboard from red lobster. That sounds really good. Whenever I was doubting Armstrongism, the feast would happen, and suddenly it would all make sense. And suddenly I didn't feel like I was so alone in Armstrongism. Suddenly, felt like, you know, hey, maybe I'll meet my wife this week. Or maybe I'll make a new friend this week. And then I'd go back to Prince George and be this like isolated ranch boy. We were all pretending we were rich for one week, and then we'd go home and live and swaller.

But as Dan grew up, aspects of his life were brought into sharper focus. When I was really young, I definitely bought into Armstrongism. Then once I became a teenager, more and more of my friends started asking difficult questions. Why don't you do this? Why do you do that? One of my friends that really had like a theological grounding, his name was Tyler, he started pushing me on this stuff. And Dan's curiosity was peaked. I started looking at things from my self.

I started reading the New Testament of the Bible because Armstrongism rarely dealt with the quote-unquote new covenant, like the Jesus side of things. The grace, forgiveness, all that was like non-existent in Armstrongism. And at the same time at home what was happening was my sister was really, really turning her back on the church. She was struggling with the abuse, she was struggling with armstrungism, she was struggling with my parents' anger, and I remember my sister was 16 when she finally dropped the C word. My mom and sister were in this big yelling match in the kitchen and my sister finally screamed,

this is a cult. You guys are in a cult. That's the word. That's Sea word. Yeah. I should have clarified. That's when it really, like something switched on inside me. So one day, there was this holy day.

I think it was the feast of trumpets. We were having a potluck. And this lady wandered in from off the street, just smelled the food, wandered in. And there was clearly enough food there. They didn't let her in. Didn't let her in, didn't give her a meal, sent her on her way, so I said, this is a private function.

And it hit me so hard. So he asked his dad about it. I said, let me get this straight. We believe that the only people that aren't going to burn in a lake of fire, like right now, at these 12 people in here, this group right here. And all these people out here, they're all damned. And he's like, yeah, of course, that's what we believe. And I was like, no, like, this, this can't be true.

And I was just like, I can't do this. I cannot do this. So I sat my parents down, and I finally said, look, Dad, I'll keep bringing you downtown because you need help getting to church, but I don't believe this anymore. As far as the internalized belief systems of Armstrongism, I had came to the conclusion of my mind already

that it was a cult and that the doctrine was incorrect. My parents were just devastated because they felt like they were losing both their kids. It never occurred to them that the reason that they were quote-unquote losing their kids was because they spent our entire childhood treating us like garbage and expecting us to believe that some old dead guy had the right answers. And so just like that, Dan stopped following the group. I moved downtown, started going to college, but on the weekends I would help my dad to the church, drive him home, come back. And I did that for a number of years.

But even outside the church, life was still difficult. This whole time I was dealing with a crippling depression. My mom was getting crazier and crazier, and my dad's health was going further and further downhill. My friend Tyler, who had been in the band, he met a girl, and they got married. Priorities changed pretty quickly. And... Her name Yoko.

How many times are you going to tell that joke, Tyler? How many times are band's going to break up because someone falls in love? Probably every single band that breaks up. Yeah, probably. That's the crazy tha tha tha tha tha tha tha tha tha tha tha thiiiiiiiiiiiii thii thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi's thi thi thi thi's thi's thi. thi. thi. thi. their their their their their priority their priority thi. their pre pre. their pre pre. their pre pre. their pre. their pre. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thea. thea. thea. theaaaa. theaa. thia. thia. thi. thithe crazy thing. They sing about love, but then as soon as they fall in love, they stop making music. Go figure. Think about everybody's first album. It's always the best, because it's always the heartbreak album, I have nothing album, and then they don't have heartbreak and they get a little something, and they don't know what to sing about. Yeah, remember the old acting line, crying is easy, comedy is hard. It's true. It's true as evidenced on this show.

With that in mind, let's move on. Okay. She's much nicer than Yoko. They, he got married and they moved to Edmonton and he was telling me, oh, there's so many jobs here, there's so many opportunities. You'd love it, you should come check to to check to check to check to check to to to to to to to to to to to to to to many jobs here, there's so many opportunities. I'm involved in this great church here, you'd love it, you should come check it out. And Dan lit up at the idea of moving, but he still felt beholden to his father. I was overwhelmed with guilt because even after everything he put me through, I had to sit him

down and say, look, I know that by leaving, I am basically condemning you to this house out in the woods on five acres that neither your mom can really look after. Like I know this, but I have to go. I have to make sense of life, I have to make sense of God. And so pushing the guilt aside, he packed up and left. I literally just crash landed in Edmonton with my guitarism was like, okay, let's try to make a go at it post-Armstrungism. But he still has a long way to go to freedom. I was a mess. I didn't know how to make sense to the world, and it's like literally a story for another time was that the church they ended up getting involved with turned out to be the most culty church I've ever heard of. So basically I left Armstrongism,

moved to Alberta and joined a totally separate shit show. So you went from a cult to a cult. I went from a cult to a cult. Is it worth going into this? I feel like there's a lot there, but it's not really what I like approached to guys with. Okay, so while doing this interview, Dan kind of buried the lead on us a bit. We did a pre-interview and he never mentioned that he had joined another cult after he left Armstrongism. And I asked him about it, I wanted him to go into it, and he didn't really feel comfortable doing so. Well, because he was born into the first one. Correct.

Right. And we actually have more people born in to cults ready to discuss their experience because they didn't quote-unquote join a cult. Right, but on the other hand getting manipulated into a cult, that could be embarrassing to be to be to be to be to be to be to be to be to be to be to be to be to be to be to be to be to be to to to to to to to to to to to to to to go to go to go to to go into to to go into it to to to to to go into it, and to go into it to go into it to go i. And to go i to go i to go it to go it to go i to go i to to to to to to to to to to go i i i i to go i i to go i to go to go to go to go their their their the their the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the thi.e.e.ean.e.e.e.e.e.e.e.e.e.e.e.e.e.e.e.e.e. their. their. thii. And. cult. Right, but on the other hand, getting manipulated into a cult, that could be embarrassing. And until you do the work to understand the cult tactics, you feel shame. Yeah. And you don't want to admit that you were misled.

Right, but once you understand that no one actually joins a cult, a lot of that shame can be released. Correct. And I tho tho tho tho tho tho tho tho tho thi thi thi thi thi thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that thi, that thi, thi, thi, that that thi, that that th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, theeeean, thi, that's, that's, that's toooooooooo, that thi, thi, told him that by him telling his story, it would help others. And he agreed, however, he was a little concerned for another reason. But I am a little interested, Dan. If you think this is worth going down that road. They're powerful people. They're kind of scary.

So I'm a little more comfortable, I guess talking about the Armstrong is stuff. Well, perhaps we could do it that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that's that that I could tho thoom thoom thoom th. th. th. thi th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. thi was thi was thi was thi was thi was a thi was a thi was a thi was a little to be tooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo is to is a little th. He wasing about the Armstrongism stuff. Well perhaps we could do it without you mentioning the name of the entity. That yeah I could do that I'd be comfortable with that for sure. So, um, oh man it's a whole other saga. It's a whole other thing. We interview I talked with Dan once again, hoping to find out a little bit more about the second group that he joined. Remember Dan did not feel comfortable giving the name of this church, so it will remain a mystery. Unless you're from Canada, Oight and a boy and you figure it oid on your own. In between shoveling your walks, your hockey matches. You know what we're talking a boot. For Canada. They hate us. They're so much better than that. They are.

Okay Dan McIntyre pick up. This is December 15th 2021. Check, check, check, check. Pick us back up, Dan, take us home after you had left. Okay. Armstrong is them. When I first moved to. You to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to the the to the the the the the the the the the the the th. You th. You th. You th. You th. You the their. You th. You th. You th. You th. You th. You th. You th. You the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the their. You. You. You. You. You. You. You. You. You. You. You. You. You. You. You. You. You. You. You. You. You. You. You. You. You. You. You. You. You. You. You th. You know. You know, th. You know, you the. You know, you know, you're thin. You know, you're too. You know, you know, you're th. You know, you know, you know, you're th. You know, you know, you know, you th. Pick us back up, Dan, take us home after you had left. Okay. Armstrong used him. When I first moved to Edmonton, I was apprenticing at a cabinet shop as a kitchen designer. Since Tyler was the rhythm guitarist from my band, I rather foolishly thought that if I followed him over to Edmonton, perhaps we'd pick up where we left off, get the band back together and make a go at it in a bigger city. That was kind of my whole master plan. But Tyler had other plans. He was fully engaged in a church and he invited Dan to attend. I was very hesitant about

setting foot in a quote-unquote born-again Christian church, very, very hesitant. That hesitation is important. That is called your intuition. Trust it. But for Dan, his intuition was pushed aside because it was Tyler inviting him. It was his good friend. This is the same friend that helped him see the light about his previous cult. Please note, many people get recruited into cults by close family members and friends.

So I finally bit the bullet and decided to accompany Tyler and his wife to this church they kept raving about. Keep in mind I came from the background of like piano-wondape wearing a suit to church. So I showed up for this Sunday service and there's like a rock band on stage and I was just like, you can do this in a church you can play like rock music afterwards all these people start coming up to me being like oh we're so glad you're here we hear you a great guitarist we hear you a great this and that palms away

thee palms away that is love bombing. It seemed on the surface like the exact opposite of Armstrongism. I really started thinking like this is the church I was looking for. There were tons of people my age and there were actual community service programs that helped people fed the hungry. There was this cool edgy youth group program. It felt like a place worth being at.

I dug in and dug in fast. Before I knew it, I was there basically every day and the only friends I had all of a sudden in town were also church members. I did virtually everything they asked for me. And this was a big church as far as Canada goes. They had three services with about like five to seven hundred people in attendance per, so it was pretty big at the time. So the rules in this church were pretty standard fair as far as Western Christianity goes.

Alcohol usage was essentially forbidden. No premarital sex. They were really hung up on self-fulfillment, like masturbation. It was a big, big no-no. They had this thing where all the guys in the church had to wear like elastic bands around their wrists. So if they saw something that caught their eye, like a billboard or a girl in a short dress or someone attractive, hit to snap their eye, like a billboard or a girl in a short dress or someone attractive. Hit to snap the wristband. Snap yourself out of it. They had this whole course called The Valiant Man,

where a bunch of the single guys in the church would show up, and then we would all get in these circles and share our stories, and do a thumbs up or thumbs down if we lost self-control that week. And it was it was it was basically it was basically it was basically it was basically it was basically it was basically it was basically it was basically it was basically it was basically it was basically basically thiiii. And it was basically thi. And it was basically like thi wa and it was basically like thi. And it was basically like thi. thiol-like like thiol-augh thi. thi. tho-s, like thoom. tho-a-a. thoing thoing thoing. their their their their their their. their. their. their. their. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. theeooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo. the. the. the. thumbs up or thumbs down if we lost self-control that week. And it was basically like a whole chorus revolving around getting guys to stop masturbating. This, thumbs up, thumbs down. She's giving a thumbs. She's got one hand up and one hand down, so I don't even know. I'm gonna go to the bathroom real quick. I'll be right back. Thumbs down. And we're back! Thumbs up! th! th! th! th! th! th! th! th! th! th! th! th! th! th! th! th! th! th! th! th! th! th! th! th th th th th th th th th th th th that- thu- thate tho- tho- tho- tho- tho- thu- thu- tho- tho- tho- tho- tho- thu thu thu th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th thu thu thu thu thu thu thu thu-s thu-s thu-s thu-s thu-s thu-s thu-s thu-au-auauauauauauauauauauauauauauauauauauauauaua'-a'-s. I'm gonna go to the bathroom real quick. I'll be right back. Thumbs down.

And we're back! Thumbs are up! The other rule was you basically had to serve. You had to get involved in some way or another. Or else you were treated like a weirdo because you weren't actively plugging in and giving your time and energy to this place. They want their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their. their. their. tha. thoom. thumben, thumben, to to to tooom. to to to to be to be thumb. They. Toms. Toms. Toms. Toms. Toms. Toms. I. Toms. I. Thanks. I. I. Thanks. I. I. Thanks. I. I. I. I. I. I. I. I. I. I. I. I. I. I. I. I. I. I. I. I. I. I. I. I. I. I. I. thu. thu. thu. together. together. together. together. together. together. together. together. toge. togne. toge. toge. toge. the. the. thugues. thumbs. thumbs. thumbs. thumbs. th life. But Dan still wanted to strum on the old guitar. We're going to get the band back together, man.

But his bandmates had other goals. Tyler kept encouraging me to use my musical talents for the kingdom, so to speak. So I stepped out of my comfort zone and wrote my first Christian rock worship song. And the church loved it, and I was welcomed onto the worship team right away. It was called called called called called called called called called called called called called called called called called called called called called called called called called called the the the the the the the c-a the c-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-s. their their their their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their. their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the their, their, their, their, th. their, th. th. th. th. the. the. thea-s. toge. toge. toge. toge. toge. together, together, together, the. the. the. and I was welcomed on to the worship team right away. It was called Give It Back. The chorus hook was God gave us a voice we're gonna give it back and it was this like power pop in, power cordy jam of a thing. The older folks likedyes the earth with light and built the lops today. This fire, old expire, the to give us the voice, we're gonna give it back. This fire, only expire, they can't give it the voice, we're gonna give it back.

The older folks liked it because the lyrics were reminiscent of older hymns and the young people liked it because it sounded like some 41 or switch foot or whatever was. I don't know, you know. Like I really felt like I was in the pocket. Like I finally found a group that really got what I was about and were championing my ideas. And being in the band made Dan cool to the kids, and so he got involved with the youth. There was this youth group that ran every Friday night.

When I first walked through the doors, they were averaging about 50 to 70 teens a night, and within about two years of me being there, we were seeing upwards of 500 teens a night. It became the largest youth group in Canada. It was truly awesome for a while. It basically morphed into a teenage nightclub with an altar call in the middle of it. So by about 2010 I was offered a staff position in their multimedia department at the church. So many people came up to me and were just like, wow, we've never seen someone get asked to join staff so soon. People were treating me like

the key to the future of this big church. Bombs away. Boom goes a love bomb. However, the staff position came with two huge caveats. The first was that I signed a covenant document. It was essentially this binding contract of a job agreement. No drinking, no pre-marital sex. Standard contract terms. Similar to the contracts we signed with I-Heart.

Any staff member caught communicating with an ex-staff member or ex-member of the church would be immediately fired. Because if you left this church, you were considered an undercurrent, you were blacklisted no matter what you had accomplished for them. Huge cult red flag, you guys. The second thing in this covenant covenant covenant covenant covenant covenant covenant covenant covenant covenant covenant covenant covenant covenant covenant covenant for them. Huge cult red flag you guys. The second thing in this covenant was about submission to authority. You couldn't ask questions. If you thought something was a bit doctrinally off, it was because there was a problem with you. Hugeer cult red flag, folks. So I signed this covenant

and then the next step was to find out what this ministry apprenticeship program was and basically what this, was free labor for the church, with half-ast course materials sprinkled throughout the mornings. And the hugest red flag of all, free labor in the name of a movement or organization. Again we see it, cults making millions and yet asking their members to work for free. In fact, this one even cost him money. making millions, and yet asking their members to work for free. In fact, this one even cost him money. The enrollment fee was about $4,000 and it was 11 months full-time, so you couldn't work.

So we were given these sponsorship letters to send out to our friends and families to raise money to support ourselves over that year. And I made the foolish decision to send one to my parents, thinking that they would all be stoked that I was taking this like Christian program. My entire family thought I was in a cult. My parents, my dad, phoned me, screaming, put your guitars in your car and drive home right now. Don't give them any of your possessions. Come home right now.

Both of us thought the other was in a cult, and neither of us thought we each were. So we were both wrong and both right at the same time. Part of that you can blame on society and why we do this show. There is still such a stereotype surrounding the word cult. In my mind at that point, a cult was still like, you know, matching sneakers and robes and, you know, this isn't a cult, this is a church. And so Dan pressed on, and he ended up raising money through some members of the church. And went headlong into this ministry apprenticeship and my staff position. Before I knew it, I was at church from about 12 to 15 hours a day, most of the weekend.

I would literally help write and plan sermons and sermon series, lead worship, make motion graphics and produce videos, then drive home, crying, friendless and penniless, because the church only paid me enough to pay for my chorus fee and little else. The deeper I got the more I realized there were some critical things that made this church very different than your average mainstream born-again Christian church. The biggest thing and I can't stress this enough was that this church is completely controlled by one single family,

just one family in control of millions with no oversight or direct accountability from anybody. I realize that this just doesn't happen in Western Christian churches, and for good reason, too. I mean, it's a recipe for abuse of power and cult-like behavior and spiritual manipulation. And the family, the pastoral family, groomed up people in their inner circle, myself included, into positions of extreme influence for no other reason than they like them. And those in the inner circle had special privileges, of course. Yes, like physical labor.

Renovating their illegal rental properties, scrubbing toilets, washing their cars, or tithing if you were one of the top tithers in the church, or otherwise you were pawn scum. And those lucky enough to be in the inner circle? Got away with everything. The youth pastors would teach personal purity, then sleep around or go clubbing and partying. This youth program, the largest in Canada, historically operated with zero oversight, zero accountability, and was run almost exclusively by untrained and in a lot of cases, shady, horny young adults.

Multiple, as in like countless instances of sexual assault, grooming, pedophilia, racism, homophobia, mental abuse, injury, nepotism, cult's greatest hits. So, into 2011 and 12, so I've been going to the church for about three or four years, I had this pressure to perform music and write these songs, I had this pressure to make the pastor happy, pressure to spend every waking minute at this church, pressure to perform music and write these songs. I had this pressure to make the pastor happy. Pressure to spend every waking minute at this church. Pressure to keep their secrets. Pressure to give advice, counsel on relationships or life advice with zero training, zero resources, zero expertise. And all this work, coupled with the constant pressure was taking its toll,

and it was wearing him down. One day in the middle of a church staff meeting, the pastor could see that I was visibly exhausted. I was pretty much my head down on the desk at that point. And he smirked and he told me, he said out loud to the whole staff table, he said, well, take your adivan and get back to work. Adavan is an anti-anication that Dan had todakered the pa the that the that the that Dan had told a pastor that he was taking in confidence. So he laughed in front of everyone.

A couple days later, he took me aside, half-heartedly apologized for the comment, and then just a few days later fired me. And the church immediately removed me from all teams, all of them. And to this day, it was the most cruel thing I've ever experienced in my entire life. I felt like I'd lost everything. My whole identity was tied up in this place and music, and I felt like everything was my fault. Well, I guess I didn't take my antidepressants that day because I tried committing suicide. The biggest reference I had to suicide in my life was what my mom tried doing when I was

a little little kid. I was going to do the same thing and that was basically going to be my big middle finger to my family. I took a bunch of Advil and Tylenol and started chugging and immediately I got so freaked out by what I was doing. I had this massive anxiety attack and just started puking. I ended up in the psychiatric emergency. No one cared, no one called or visited. I literally went from staff member to psychiatric emergency, and nobody cared.

The devastating reality of false friendships and false relationships in cults. And then my dad had a heart attack. So later in 2012, I decided to head back to my hometown and look after my dad. Who, mind you, was still practicing armstrongism. My parents' house was falling apart. It was really bad. Their van was broken down. The front ramp that we had built leading up to the front door that my dad used to get in and out

was rotted through. He couldn't put weight on it. So he'd been trapped inside the house. It was really dire. So for nine months I worked on the place, helped my dad's recovery. The whole time I was just spun out out out out out out out out out out out out out out out out out out out out out out out out out out out out out out out out out out out out out out out out out trying out trying out trying out trying out trying out trying out just spun out trying to come off of antidepressants. And after everything I did for this church, not a single person preached out to me in those nine months. That was the church policy. After years of being instrumental in this huge church, nobody cared about me at all. So, after a couple months of dealing with the optics and the reality and the social media

of all of this shit, I found myself again considering taking my own life. I found myself with a loaded rifle against my head. And just when he thought that this would be his last moment, he had a feeling. I just got this strong sense that this couldn't be the end of my story. I could not let this define the rest of my life. My pride, ego, and worth were still connected to this place. I knew how that church operated. I knew that they would have told everyone that I was just another backslider that the devil took out. And I just couldn't live with it.

I told my dad I said, look, you know, I fixed the ramp, fix the van, everything's working. I need to go back. I need to go back to Edmonton and that church in the spring of 2013. And I thought I could be the change. I really did. I had a renewed sense of vigor, but I just had to disassociate from the politics of it. And I thought that would be enough. So Dan goes back, humbled, and Curry's favor with the leaders, the ones who fired him. And he even wrote a song about his return. So I'm back in the groove, I'm eventually back on stage, leading worship.

Just like that, he's back in step. It's as if he never left, never tried to take his own life, never wound up in a psych ward with no one giving a shit. And he started working again with the youth of the church. And then one day, I was notified of a mandatory meeting that was taking place at the church for all the leaders of the youth ministry. So I showed up and the mood was really somber. Turns out that this is a specialist from like the RCMPP, which is like the Royal Canadian Mount of Police here, to talk about inappropriate-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-ni-ni-ni-ni-a-ni-ni-a-ni-a-a-nigh-a-nui-a-nui-ni-nui-nui-nui-nui-nui-nui-nui-nui-n. the church, the church, the church, the church. And, the church. And, the church. And, the church. And, the church. And, the church. And, the church. And, the church. And, the church. And, the church. And, the church. And, th. And, th. And-a-a-a-s. th-s. th-s. th-s. th-s. th-s. th-s. to-s. to-s. to-s. to-s. to-s. to-s. today-s. today-s. to-s. to-s. toda-s like the RCMP, which is like the Royal Canadian Mental Police here, to talk about inappropriate relationships.

Apparently, numerous leaders had been dating underage girls. All of this was buried. No one talked about this stuff. And Dan really had no one to talk to about it either, until... I met this girl while volunteering at the youth summer camp. She was my age. Just putting that out there based on what we just talked about. We started going on all these dates and we fell in love. This girl had also come through the ministry apprenticeship program. She had an entirely different perspective and testimony going through this church as a female.

And yet, you guessed it, it wasn't always great. We bonded really quickly over unpacking everything we were witnessing. And we had these obligations. We really felt like we were making a difference in these kids' lives. That September in 2013, my dad passed away from a second heart attack. To this day, I'm so grateful that I had those nine months with him to really help him out and be there for it. After my dad's funeral, I suddenly felt free of my dad's expectations and judgment.

And all of a sudden, it was like this veil just dropped. And suddenly I could see everything clearly. I could see the organization I was in. I could see the approval I was looking for. I could see the corruption that was happening all around me. And he and his girlfriend, now fiance, kept talking and unpacking everything we were witnessing. We would go for coffee or beer and we'd sit there and just be like, are we in a cult? So I started doing my own

research. I started the whole Google like, was I in a cult? Ten signs you were in a cult? Twelve signs you were in a cult. Five signs you might be in a cult. Oh, that ever-present magazine questionnaire just keeps getting passed around. It's a little skanky article, a little whore of an article. I believe that's our third instance of a magazine article helping somebody recognize signs of a cult. It was like every box I could tick it. The spiritual manipulation, the not talking to people outside the church, the absolute authority obedience to your manipulation, the not talking to people outside the church, the absolute

authority obedience to your pastor, the incredible doctrinal stuff, like it really started to hit me. My parents were right. We were in a cult. We just knew it. We were done. So we stepped back, and nobody talked to us, not a single person asked why we left. When I finally realized that this church that we'd been a part of for so long was in fact a cult by very definition, I felt so defeated, I was so depressed, I put on a bunch of weight, drank a bunch of beer, like I was miserable. Dan and his love got married, but it didn't make things easier. Like our first year of marriage together, like we were pretty unhappy people because we did know how to process everything that had happened.

We talked a lot about having kids, and I took it really seriously. I knew that if I was going to become a father, I needed to make sure that I did the work and was ready and healthy to take it on. So they sought the help of help the help the help the help the help of help of help the help of help the help of help of help of help of help the help of help the help of the help of the help of the help of the help of the help of the help of the help of the help of the help of the help of the help of the help of the help of to take it on. So they sought the help of a professional. We've both spent countless hours and money on therapy to recover and unpack what we were part of. And it's tough to find peace as a cult survivor. So much of my cult experience has been feeling like I was never good enough. There was always something wrong with me, but I recognize now that I did have these experiences

and I lived to tell the tale. And everything I have today and everything I am today is because I came out the other side of this gauntlet of just misery. I had this opportunity to be the dad I never had and to be the best husband I can be, to be the wiser, more educated, tolerant, accepting, open, curious person. So in August of 2020, after years of counseling and different modalities, my wife and I welcomed our first child and daughter into this world, and she sure as hell is going to feel safe and loved and wanted every single day that

I have breath in my lungs. And that's what I tell her. Every single day before putting her down for bed, I'd say, you're safe, you're loved, and you're wanted. Mommy's here and Daddy's here. Never far away. That's my story. Dan is now doing great.

Which is so Canadian. He lives in Vancouver and works as a designer of high-end kitchen tables. And I also don't think I'll ever set foot in a tunnether church for the rest of my life. I'm so done with that. But he still loves to play music and even wrote and performed this song about his time in the church, or cult. It's called Any Given Sunday. And we'll give you a link in the show notes so that you can listen to the song for yourself. And we'll give you a link in the show notes so that you can listen toelling us not one but two cult stories. And for opening up your vault of music.

That's it folks, but join us next week for the final episode of Season 1. We are rushing to put it together right now for you. It is a special one. But in the meantime, you can get on our Instagram for some more bad jokes and some sparkly pictures of Liz. We'll be back, we'll be back, we promise we're coming back to you. Can you just do it without a song? Is that possible? Thumbs up or done. Do you like that song? That's the sound of my headphones coming off. All right, Clay, wrap it up, brother. Was I an occultist story produced and written by the one, the only Liz Ayacousy.

And this gal Liz Ayacousy. Oh, sorry. And him, Tyler Mason. Executive producer Maya Cole Howard. Supervising producer Ari Basile. Audio engineer and engineer and editor is engineer is chanler mays. Our publicist is Lauren Dutton Breen. And our new studio engineer is Clay Clay. Welcome aboard Clay. And our fan of the week is Mora Strepa.

I hope I'm saying your name right, M-A-U-R-A, Mora, Strapa, S-T-R-E-P-P-A. She is a radical musician from Nashville, Tennessee. Ooh, we have a Nashville episode coming up, Mora, so stay tuned. And thanks for the shout-out. We appreciate it. Thank you.