Was I In A Cult? - Australian Vegan Cult: “Lambs on the Lam”

Episode Date: September 23, 2024

In this week’s episode, Hannah takes us from her Jehovah’s Witness upbringing to a wild journey through the world of an extreme vegan cult. What started as a passion for animal welfare escalated into living on a full fledged animal sanctuary, becoming the hub for Vegan’s of Geelong, and spiraling into breaking and entering in the name of “liberation.” Fueled by conspiracies and paranoia, Hannah’s new “family” pushed the boundaries of activism. With candor and lightheartedness, Hannah shares how she escaped one cult, only to fall into another, and what it took to break free for good. ____ Follow us on Instagram/TikTok/FB: @wasiinacult  Have your own story? Email us: [e-mail]  Please support Was I In A Cult? Through Patreon (we appreciate the hell out of you guys): https://www.patreon.com/wasiinacult   Merch is here! www.wasiinacult.com 

Please note this episode discusses animal thievery. Please listen accordingly. Earlier this year, I was talking to my therapist about this particular group, and she goes, do you think that could also be a cult? And I was like, no, of course not. We're just a group of wacky people, you know? And then she was like, think on that more. So, yeah, went back, thought a little bit and I was like, oh, my God, it was a cult.

I've been in two cults. That's crazy. That is crazy, but less crazy on this show. Welcome to Was I In A Cult, everyone? I'm Liz Iacuzzi. Sadly, Tyler will not be able to- Ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, what? You wish I weren't here, Liz, but alas, I am here in front of the mic as I should be. You didn't abandon us. You look a little different, Tyler.

You look a little more famous or... Er. I admit it! What did you get, like, Canada Botox or something? That's just my underpaid documentary filmmaker face, Liz. There's no bags under the eyes. It's a permanent smile. For those who don't know,

I was at the Toronto International Film Festival. I had two films playing there. It was wonderful. I met a lot of wonderful people. I showed two films and I elbowed with celebrities, I will say. I'm not going to drop any names. Jennifer Lopez. But I won't, you know. Is that why she's getting a divorce? Because she met you? You know, I'm going to give her some time. I had a good time. Kiefer Sutherland introduced my film. That was kind of cool.

He's a wonderfully nice guy. Jack's back. Jack Bauer. Well, welcome back to the real world. That's, you know, the land of podcasting, the land that'll happily deflate any ego you once had. Not much ego from this humble, humble lad, Liz. So. I will admit, Tyler, we missed you on this show while you were

frolicking with the A-listers. Was it weird having people play Tyler for the day? No, my pinch hitters filled in admirably. They did great. It was fun to listen to other people rally with you, Liz. So thank you, Shannon. Thank you, Josh, for stepping in where I couldn't. Well, I'm sure everyone listening missed you as well, but sadly, we'll never know.

They're not here. Let's get to the show, shall we? Enough talking about me for now. You have come back for a very fun episode today, Tyler. This was one of my more laugh out loud interviews I've had in a while. And her email line sprung out at us. It was like vegan political cult with like six exclamation points. And turns out it's a vegan political cult out of none other than Australia.

Love it. Fantastic. So with that, let's get to it, shall we? Unless, of course, you have more things to brag about, Tyler. Yes. The carpet is red. It's really red and wide and softer than I thought. And with that, let's meet today's guest. Also, there was a guy... So my name is Hannah. I go by H. I'm 20 years old, you know, probably one of the younger listeners of Was I an Occult?

I grew up Jehovah's Witness. Probably my earliest memory is either going to Jehovah's Witness meetings or my dad in a psych ward. So my biological father was extremely mentally unwell and obviously my mum did not know that at the time and the religion allowed him to get away with a lot of stuff he wouldn't have been able to get away with otherwise. So yes, her first cult was the Jehovah's Witnesses and I think it's pretty well known today that Jehovah's Witnesses are a cult.

But if you'd like to know more about this quote unquote religion, we did an episode called Shut Up and Be Blessed in season one. So check that out. And Jehovah's Witnesses believe that too much focus on worldly possessions will result in spiritual complacency. Right? So? When I was about four and my youngest sister was two, my parents decided we're going to

travel Australia in a bus. This is probably another one of my dad's just ideas. He was never super involved with us. The most amount of time I spent with my dad in my entire childhood was when he would get us to work on the bus with him. So we brought a bus in Adelaide. We travelled up the entire west coast of Australia and we were all in Jehovah's Witness this time and like we would go to different meetings along the west coast of Australia. We got to Catherine right before the Northern Territory border and the bus broke down. We managed to get it back together and then we made it to Darwin and the bus broke down again.

So we were essentially just living in Darwin from that point. So Darwin is Australia's largest city in the Northern Territory with a population of around 140,000 blokes and lassies. And the town is in fact, as you would expect, named after Charles Darwin. population of around 140,000 blokes and lassies. And the town is in fact, as you would expect, named after Charles Darwin. Which might account for the reason why 42% of the city's population claims no religion.

I did not know that. That is very interesting. Yeah, it's very fascinating. See, when you're my co-host, I learn useless facts that I love. You'll forget it in 10 minutes. And then my dad's mental health started getting worse. He was trying to cheat on my mom with the local lady who worked at the service station.

And because she was not interested, he thought that the school principal was poisoning mom against him. So he lost his mind actually, and started stalking my school principal. He brought a motorbike to hide in the bushes near the school so he could follow her home. And so kind of the final straw, mum and him separated. And then mum wanted to do midwifery. She got through her second year and having

two young kids and no way to pay for child care is not a good mix. So she was like I can't really do this and at the time Victoria was cheaper than living in Darwin so we packed everything up and we flew down to Victoria Melbourne. Big shout out to Melbourne. Guys, do I miss that place? You're in Albert Park right now. I need you to go directly. Do not stop at Pasco.

Do not collect $200. Go directly to Gumtree and buy the chocolate covered honeycomb. I still dream about that candy. During that time we met this lady. She took us to a bunch of Christian churches and she was just like, maybe, you know, the world isn't going to end from the Jehovah's Witnesses. And mum was like, that's a good point. So she started doing some reflections and realized the Jehovah's Witnesses weren't for her, we just stopped going. And in probably a span of two weeks, my mum lost her sister, all of her community from

the Jehovah's Witnesses. Her mum stopped talking to her for a bit. Oh, cults. Fucking cults. And so we got through that and then we had two families that were really close, mum and her best friend at the time. We spent everything together. We went from being two kids, me and my sister, to six. We moved to Geelong with them. Geelong is a gorgeous city, guys. It's stunning waterfront. It's the perfect starting point for one of the world's most scenic coastal drives, the Great Ocean Road. It also has an amazing food and wine scene. You know, Liz, I was gone for just two weeks.

You can't step in and be the person who gives facts about cities. That's kind of my role. Well, go ahead. You got any to hit us with? I don't. I don't accept that I want to live there. That's really the only fact I'd like to live there. And then when I was 11, I had a school project called the Passion Project. Everyone else is doing like surfing, gymnastics and I decided to do animal cruelty in the farming industry. And then everyone in our family, like the parents started looking into it more and they were like, why don't we go vegan?

I have always liked eating meat. And I was like, I'm an 11 year old. I don't really have a choice. So we all went vegan and then this lady moved around a lot and she moved out to this house that had land and she got some rescue lambs. Cue baby lamb noises Rob. Baa.

Baa. Wait, why are you making the baby lamb noises yourself? You can do some too Tyler. Baa. Baa. Baa. Baa. Baa.

Pretty much all I'm good for is hitting the baby lamb sound effect button and you're taking that away from me. And we were not like living there officially, but we pretty much lived there for six months. And then we're looking for community as a person does. So we joined the vegans of Geelong basically. So it's just a group of vegans. It's exactly what it says on the canister.

It's a group of vegans in Geelong, basically. And we just started hanging out with them and getting more involved in the group. So we would have these meetings and it would just be like a big group of people. There was this restaurant called Dolly's Kitchen and that was a vegan restaurant in Geelong and we'd all have dinner there or we would have a movie night watching essentially vegan films. Which I'm sure is just a bunch of cute baby lambs frolicking through the grass, right?

Oh, yeah, I've seen that one. Cute little baby cows suckling at their mother's bos, while goats and hogs and horses run free. Just animals living their best lives, right? There's one that really sticks with me called Okja. And the reason it stuck with me so much is because there's a scene in which Okja the pig is forcibly inseminated by a large bull pig that is like disgustingly animated. It's got like grotesque bulging muscles and it's really graphic for kids

to be watching. We would watch movies with actual videos from factory farms, which was extremely graphic. There was one where a pig had rolled over it was in such a small enclosure she rolled over her own piglets and then it gives you like a close-up of the piglets in the grate like all smushed down. A 12 year old that was pretty scary and I'm sure my sister who was 10 at the time was probably worse off because she was just that little bit younger. I don't think it was a video but the most gruesome thing I ever saw, we were protesting the duck shooting season and we were all there so early for the start of the duck shooting

season and as kids we watched these ducks be shot out of the sky and There is a photo of me that they used for promo of me crying and being hugged by one of the vegan ladies that was there Because I was 12 watching a duck be shot out of the sky And like obviously that's traumatizing Here's my impression of going to the grocery store to get ingredients for dinner And like, obviously candy Henry, no. Please wait for assistance. To put self-checkout. It doesn't work. It never works. I want to go home. And here's my impersonation of getting my dinner through EveryPlate. Oh wow, chicken teriyaki!

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Get a room my god I mean, I love bread too guys, but it can be hard to just love bread when it's so full of carbs and sugar You know don't listen to her bread. She doesn't mean it But now you can love bread guilt free with Hero Bread. I'm so excited about this brand because Hero Bread reinvented bread and buns. You don't feel like you're eating healthy, tasteless, dried out bread. It's got that wonder. Seedy bread.

It's like that healthy sometimes has all that seeds and stuff in it, right? This reminds me of like Wonder Bread as a kid. Yeah. But it has zero net carbs, zero grams of sugar, and way fewer calories, plus added protein and fiber. Yeah. I'm polyamorous with my bread. I'm open and I tried the sliced bread. I tried Hero's Hawaiian rolls and their tortillas.

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Get 10% off your order at hero.co, guys. Use code inacult at checkout. Inacult at h-e-r-o dot c-o. Now, let's get off of this because Tyler's going to go do some weird shit with an Hawaiian roll. I don't want to be around for it. So this little community, Hannah and her mother and sister built, it continued to evolve. Sort of like Darwin's theory. Very nicely done.

They moved to a different house than the first one they started adopting animals in. One end of the house was where the children had their bedrooms and it was five bedrooms just in like dorm style bedrooms that we would stay in with these other kids. So we would just play shelters and play looking after the animals because at this point this lady who we were so close with, she took in a bunch more animals, started off with lambs and then we got 60 roosters that someone had taken from a chicken breeding thing. We got goats and then we had cows, we had cats like rescue cats, we had a mom and her babies. And then, yeah, we had all this huge chicken pen. And then soon it was like we were living

on a full-fledged sanctuary and we were like the hub for the vegan community. So from a small little idea for a school project to now being the vegan hub of Geelong. You know, I feel like a vegan hub group would just crush it here in LA. At least in Topanga. Oh yeah. I'm sure there is one or two or three.

At least. Rob's running one actually. It's a vegan group that eats hamburgers. Yeah, I could never. Do you know what's weird is after doing this interview, it made me crave meat more. Is that bad? No, that's not bad. That's good. So it was like a lot of fringe people.

Like, you know, when you think of hippies, they're the kind of people this group attracted. But nobody wore fur. nobody wore actual leather. If you wear that, you can't come in here. A lot of them were like polyamorous, but they were also like kind of militant in how vegan. They were, a lot of them are like those crunchy munchy conspiracy theorists who don't believe in the vaccine.

That's the type of people that joined. When we had these meetings, they would wrap their phones in tin foil and put them in the microwave in the kitchen so that the government couldn't listen to them. And I like vividly remember just trying to get something out of the fridge and just seeing like a pile of phones in the fridge wrapped just seeing like a pile of phones in the fridge

wrapped in tin foil. Because that's also the government can't listen to you if you're in the fridge. Did you know, Liz, that the government can't hear you if you're in the fridge? Liz? Liz, you're going to make a really dumb... You're going to make a dumb refrigerator joke, aren't you, Liz? Wait, were you talking to me, Tyler? Sorry. I was just taking a nap in the fridge.

To avoid government interference. I didn't want them to get into my inner psyche either. Well, hand me the potato salad while you're in there. Oh, I don't have potato salad, but would you like some grape-o-pon? That's stupider. Rob, can you make that dumbness work? Oh, I don't have potato salad, but would you like some grape-o-pon? Stupid-er. Rob, can you make that dumbness work? Editor's note. I couldn't. So this group continued to increase its membership, but mostly through word of mouth.

But there wasn't too much recruitment, I'd say, because the way we went about telling people to turn vegan was not exactly subtle. It wasn't a way that makes someone want to join. It was mostly done on Facebook groups. Obviously, as a human, we're all empathetic to some degree, and they would prey on your empathy when they're showing you all these animals being killed. They're like, if you don't go vegan, you're directly contributing to these animals dying. Like you're directly contributing to the horrible conditions they live in.

And like it was all a lot of you're guilty if you're buying meat. You know, and it was like we need to convince as many people to be vegan as possible. Factory farming needs to be banned, and if they don't go vegan, we're gonna die from global warming, because factory farming is directly causing global warming. So we would do these big protests, and most notably one where we shut down Melbourne city and Melbourne's on a big grid

so we walked from intersection to intersection with these signs carrying pictures of animal abuse. Some of them were pretty graphic and some of them were just words so we would sit down in each intersection and we stopped all the trams. People couldn't get through the intersections for however long we were there, like 30 minutes at each one. And it was a couple thousand people, it was a lot of people, but that was kind of crazy and like we had to have the police around us to stop people ramming into us because we were like stopping traffic and people don't want you to stop traffic in Melbourne. The idea of pro vegans aggressively trying to get you

to be vegan, I don't know. It's just a very funny image to me. Yeah, by blocking traffic. Right. You know, you eat sausage, you're gonna be late for work. You like Buffalo Wild Wings, well take the 405 instead, asshole. That is a punishment worse than death.

Oh man. I never want to resort to just doing the Californians, but it's so easy. What are you doing here? I had to take Sepulveda. I had to take Sepulveda because I eat chicken wings. I don't know how many protests I went to. It's like a 12 year old.

And then there was another protest where we went down to Warrnambool at the racetracks there. And we just stood by the entrance and just protested. And this one guy was like, horses die at Warrnambool. Like all day, he just kept saying that. He was like, horses die at Warrnambool, like all day, he just kept saying that. He was like, horses die at Warrnambool. And then when one of the horses went down, it was like, we've got to go take photos and

expose the truth of what they do to these horses. And it was like a real covert operation that they were like working out and we all went down on a big mini van bus to that one and then they would start getting in fights with these obviously drunk horse racing patrons and they would just be like shouting at each other and then another protest we did at the Geelong Rodeo a guy threw ground beef at us. Um, it was ground beef because it didn't hit us, it hit the ground. Well that's why we got the ground beef thrown at us obviously because we were being annoying.

And then that kind of leads us to the more illegal things that they did. So obviously we were taking care of these baby lambs but not all of them were surrendered to us. We would do this thing where we would pile in the car and drive around the farmers in our area and see if we found any lambs that look injured or away from their mothers. And then we would wait half an hour to see if their mother came back. And if they didn't, we would take them. But we were doing it under saving them. We were saving them. We're not stealing them.

We're saving them from a life of hardship in the wool industry. OK, so they were stealing animals. Straight up. It's called lamb rustling where I'm from. But I do have a whole new respect for vegans now. I'm not messing with the Tofurkey crowd, not when I know what they're capable of. I'll be damned if I let my dog and cat near them. I'll be damned if I let my dog and cat near them. We had the inner circle and we were basically the inner circle, you know? If you didn't show up to all the protests, like you were on the outside, you weren't

invited to as much stuff. If you question, then you're shunned from the inner circle, right? And obviously because we were just living on this property with this other family, we didn't own anything. We didn't have a stake in the lambs. It was like this other woman. And so her and mum were close. But then if they disagreed or something, we'd go from their house. We would go back to our own house.

So it was always like you have to agree or you kind of, you have to leave. Pretty, pretty, pretty, coldy. We would have to get up as kids and feed baby bottle-fed lambs while our parents were still asleep. First thing in the morning, that was our job. We would make the baby bottles. And it was like, at one point we had 20 lambs.

I mean, when we're looking after them, we probably should have had them in a barn or something, but we had them inside the house. It was like six kids and 20 lambs. And then we would change their diapers because obviously they're inside, you have to have diapers on them or else there'd be poop everywhere.

So obviously you get baby diapers and you would cut a hole in it for the tail so the lamb's tail could stick out and if it was a girl you would just put it on and like it would go around their legs and that would be it. But if it was a boy you had to put one around his penis obviously because otherwise he'd have wee on the floor so you had to like wrap one around his penis, obviously, because otherwise he'd wee on the floor. So you had to like wrap one around his belly with the leg holes being where his body goes. So, yeah, that's lamb diapers. I just need a moment because I'm slightly confused right now with the entire stolen diapered

lambs walking around the living room thing. Liz, can you help me out with this? It's just it just gets weirder. Well, whenever they go to the toilet in the house, you have to change it, because otherwise it's like sitting on them. That's gross, they'll get nappy rash. And then obviously we'd be left with a mass amount

of nappies that were filled with lamb piss and shit. And so we would just have like garbage bins full of lamb piss and shit stinking it up in the garage and it would just like sit there. It was really gross. And then the adults would not be up yet. So it would just be us kids running around the house and then we would eat Weebix with like oat milk.

I would always get to arguments because I was pretty tall and I would eat a lot and all the other kids were smaller than me and I wanted to eat more than two wheat bix a morning. And it was like, you can't eat more than two wheat bix because there's so many kids here. Okay, so wheat bix is this whole grain wheat breakfast cereal.

It's kind of like, what do we have in America? Shredded wheat. No, it's kind of like what do we have in America? Shredded wheat? No, it's it's kind of like shredded wheat, only bigger and harder. Yeah, it's like it's not cereal like we know it. They're like big playing card sides, chunks of like hard dried wheat. Like it looks like a nature's valley bar. It kind of does. Actually, it kind of does. This whole grain wheat breakfast cereal is quite the iconic Aussie food.

In fact, a poll of 16,000 people in 2006 identified it as Australia's favorite trademark. The product has been marketed in Australia since 1985 with the catchphrase, Aussie kids are wheat bix kids. From golden fields to beaches On breakfast tables everywhere There are Ozzy Kids That'll love our Weet-Bix everyday Ozzy Kids, our Weet-Bix Kids Ozzy Kids, our Weet-Bix Kids Ozzy Kids, our Weet-Bix Kids Ozzy Kids, our Weet-Bix Kids With an ad like that, I'm going to give up my cocoa crispies. Don't do that. Don't ever give up your cocoa crispies unless you don't want diabetes. And also sometimes the lambs get weight mixes a treat.

Yeah. And then the kids would, we would be left to our own devices pretty much all day. Like during the day we'd do other chores like feed the chickens because we had over 60 roosters. And then we'd just hang out in the yard, you know, play imagination games for hours and then would come inside and we'd play Minecraft, play more Minecraft. Tyler, have you ever played Minecraft? You know, I haven't, but I am certainly in the minority because Minecraft has over 166 million active monthly users. In fact, it has over 700 million monthly users in China.

What? Yeah, I counted them. However, oddly enough, there's some irony in here because... The most efficient way to get food in Minecraft is killing animals, obviously. But we would always debate if it's OK to kill animals in Minecraft or not, because they're still animals, but they're also pixels on a screen. But they're still animals, so can we kill them and eat them? I would secretly kill them and eat them because it's the most efficient way to get food,

but they would tell the adults and I was in trouble for killing animals in Minecraft. That is just too rich. I mean, she's sneaking pixelated bacon while the adults are munching on tofu and hummus. I'm dead. Literally dead. Cough and put me in the ground. That's hysterical. And the parents would eat in a separate room and then we would eat in like the lounge room and just keep playing.

We used to have a saying, out of sight, out of mind, and so we would get to play longer. Once the parents remembered we were there, they would send us to bed. All the kids would go to bed pretty early because mum's friend didn't exactly like children even though she had four. She didn't really think that one through, did she? Yeah, also these kids, they're not her own. They're foster children. I hate kids.

I'll take four. All the vegans would come together and meet and then they would have their meetings about what they're going to do. There's this show called Lost. I don't know if you've seen it. They watch Lost maybe eight times. Over and over again, They would watch movies. I don't really know a lot of what they did, to be honest, because I was with the kids.

So we would never really spend time with our parents. It was kind of weird for us because we went from being super close to our mum to just being one of six kids suddenly and not really getting to see her much. I, again, with the cults. Fucking cults. Did you know, Liz? Yes, Tyler. That the first restaurant in the modern sense of the term was opened in Paris in 1765 and its motto was a Latin phrase that translated

to, come to me those whose stomachs ache and I will restore you. Really? That's also the motto of my gastroenterologist. And since that time, dining at restaurants has been one of life's great joys. But sometimes guys, between the driving and the parking and the dealing with the children and the this and the high prices and the dining out, it can be a lot, you know? It can be a bit of a pain, but you know what's better? Having affordable restaurant quality food from award-winning chefs delivered to your door with Cook Unity. I was doing Cook Unity before they were even a sponsor of the show, guys. Like, my family loves this stuff. Cook Unity Meals are not your run-of-the-mill meals. Cook Unity Meals are actually prepared by the chefs you see on the television in the five-star kitchens. Yeah, their roster of all-star

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Yes, it is. So when we went to the animal shelter to get Buzzy, the man helping us said, You choose a dog, but a cat chooses you. And was that ever true? Because a little black and white kitten, our Buzzy, jumped up on my wife's arm when she opened the door. Aww. Mm-hmm. That's so cute. our buzzy jumped up on my wife's arm when she opened the door. Awwww. Mmhmm.

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May I speak on behalf of everyone right now? As a white man, you've long held that role, so please have the floor, Tyler. Thank you, Liz. You know, life can be stressful for everyone, and I think we all need a simple way to just kind of turn off our brain. And as annoying as our phones can be, sometimes playing a game on it can really just be a nice way to relax. My favorite one for that, guys, is June's Journey. If you haven't heard of it, it's

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In fact, I actually went vegan for a full six and a half hours just to research this story. It is true dedication, Liz, true dedication. And if you appreciate our sweaty brows, growling stomachs, and blistered thumbs, we would really appreciate it if you would show that appreciation. How many times can I say the word appreciate

in one sentence? I would appreciate it if you said one more. We would really appreciate it by showing your appreciation, by contributing to our Patreon membership. So we would appreciate it, and if you sign up now, I'll post some full frontal nude shots of my calves. Shaved, mind you. Well, watch out.

Goes to Tiff once, comes back with calf implants. They're real. They're real. Tell me you've been to Tiff without telling me you've been to Tiff. Oh, look at his calf implants. I've got runner's calves. I don't need implants. If you do support our Patreon and you are interested in supporting this show Again, we appreciate your appreciation But do it on your desktop do not do it through the patreon app on your iOS

Because in November Apple is putting out a 30% surcharge on top of the patreon membership If you buy the membership on their app very stupid stupid, very dumb. Apple is really struggling for money right now. I know, I feel really bad for them. So they need that extra money coming out of our pockets. Thank you, Apple. I'm still in your cult though. We all are. All right, back to the story.

This lady, mom's friend had foster kids and she got money from having foster kids. But mum had to work, so for a while she worked as a massage therapist, like on and off. She worked shift work in one of the prisons. She's a qualified prison guard. So we were super poor. And then also this lady would get mum to buy animal food, even though we had not much money.

And mum would come home with these big bags of like animal food from the supply store. And I remember being like really angry as a kid about it. Cause I was like, what are we doing? Like, no. I was like, I can't eat more than two Weetbix, but you know, we can feed it to animals also. So school is kind of optional.

Like in primary school, I had my friends that I had made before we went vegan, but in high school, I was just an autistic vegan kid who didn't know she was autistic. And obviously being autistic, you go against the grain a little bit and everyone wore skirts to school

and one time I showed up wearing pants because it was cold and one girl came up to me and she was like are those pants? And I was like yeah and she was like that's really weird I never went back to school in year seven after that day. I don't show up to school, I don't eat, I just hang out with a group of six kids feral in a paddock somewhere because school is not super encouraged. When I was 14, obviously I started going to therapy and my first therapist was like, have you considered your autistic?

And I was like, there's no way. There's no way not even for a second. And then this year I went and saw a psychiatrist and I got officially diagnosed this year after six years of not having an official diagnosis. But yeah, so it's all autism spectrum disorder. Like, I'm pretty high functioning. I just have a lot of problems with social situations and sensory issues,

stuff like that. So obviously, with mum working in the prisons, she had some police contacts. And one of her friends who was also vegan, basically the police had their eye on the vegans for stealing lambs. And so mum was like, I don't want to tell you who told me this because it can cause problems for them. I know how you guys are, but we need to back off with the lambs because the police have their eye on us. And then it was like a huge I was like, who's the spy?

Who's telling the police that we're like stealing lambs? Right. So it started to get everyone started to get really paranoid. And then because mum brought it to their attention, they were like, it's you. OK, so if they're criminals for stealing these animals and they run away and escape... Are they on the lamb? Oh, God. So bad. I just sat here and watched as you sheepishly told that joke. I just sat here and watched as you sheepishly told that joke.

Yeah, I was a little bashful. Oh, you. Nice. E-W-E. E-W-E. Yeah, that's what I said. Yeah, that's good, Liz. I owe you mutton, Liz. Will you please stop, Tyler? Nice. Will you please stop? Just? Nice, will you please stop?

Just trying to pull the wool over your eyes. This is where we both need to be cut off. The sheer audacity. Oh, isn't the English language grand? I can't edit this. My computer's running out of RAM. And so they basically all... It was like pretty much in the span of a week, everyone was against mum.

And it was like, she was the one, the spy informing the police of us stealing lambs. She was betraying the group, basically. It wasn't mum. It's pretty obvious that people are stealing lambs. She was betraying the group basically. It wasn't mum. It's pretty obvious that people are stealing lambs. Obviously it wasn't mum. She just let the group know and then she got shunned. It wasn't our decision to leave. And then obviously you can't just leave your kids somewhere unfortunately. So we lost all of the community that we had and it was just us and mom again. So we left the group and then slowly all of our friends kind of like left us. We got shunned from the group. So we had no one basically.

So that was like the hardest time, I think, for mom. Once again, and I'm saying it for the third time, cults. Fucking cults, man. I was 13 at that point. We decided to take a road trip up to the Gold Coast for Christmas because it was like the first Christmas we would be alone since leaving the Joe's Witnesses because we didn't celebrate in the Joe's Witnesses. We went up to Brisbane, saw all the Gold Coast, saw all the parks and whatever. And in 2018, I went back to a different high

school and I stayed in school. And then I left early to do an apprenticeship, because like I said, I was never really good at school. And I had also missed an entire foundational year from being basically in a cult. So, yeah, I was too busy changing lamp diapers. That's a life skill. If I ever decide to have children, I'll know how to cut a hole in their nappy. And so now Hannah and her sister and mum are having to rebuild their lives. They moved back into their original home, which they had rarely ever even visited.

And Hannah went through her new life without having to share her Weep-Bix with a diapered lamb living in her living room. And I was still vegan for like the first year of being back at school. So I made some really good friends, which was really good to finally have some other friends. And mom started dating again. And then, so we went back over to Perth to visit her grandparents and my nan keeps chickens.

And so she was like, I'm making an omelet for breakfast. Like, do you guys want to learn how to make an omelet? We were like yeah and my sister and I made omelets and then I was like can I put cheese on them and she was like of course you can darling what's stopping you? And I was like oh my god I can eat eggs and cheese that was so good having an omelet with cheese and tomato sauce on it? Oh my God. Okay, I'm just gonna say, because I'm quite proud of myself,

I have spent years trying to perfect the omelet. And when you make a good omelet. What's in there? What's in there, Tyler? Well, you know, farm fresh eggs, light cheese, preferably goat cheese. Don't overfill the inside. You got a buttered pan, low heat, herbs, fresh herbs.

You get it till it's soft inside and do not brown the outside. There are few things better in life than a good omelette. You're gonna have to come over and show me how to make that. Join our Patreon, I will make omelettes for everyone. So obviously I ate that omelette and then we got home and I was out with my group of friends in high school. We're going to watch Avengers Endgame. There's this burger shop right near the cinema and I was like,

I have always loved burgers. Even when we're vegan I would get like the fake meat burgers and then I was like, I want a real meat burger and so I went and I ordered a burger and I ordered a strawberry milkshake with all of my full friends watching me for the first time eat me because they had only known me as a vegan. And then I drank all the strawberry milkshake and then obviously I'm not used to animal products so I threw up. But yeah, yeah, it was so good.

I still get burgers from there. I still get bogus from there. I had one last week. But as with every cult, vegan or doomsday, the deprogramming takes time. There was still so much guilt around it until we were living with mum's boyfriend. And then he was just like, just eat meat. And so mum started cooking meat again.

And then it was kind of just like we're all cooking meat, we're all eating meat, let's just go, like let's force end it. So yeah. And we eat like oxtail, we have goat curry. Our first Christmas bat with their family we had ox tongue, like cow tongue, which is beef tongue. It's exactly what it says. And that was interesting. It was just like chewy steak. We don't really discriminate anymore.

My sister still won't eat lamb, but I don't really have any qualms about it now. So I had lamb lasagna the other night. As you might know, lamb is a staple in Australian cuisine and ironically, Australian lamb is known for its high quality and flavor, thanks to the country's commitment to sustainable farming practices and strict quality control. And diapers with elastic waistbands. You know, as a little bit of a guilt thing after I started eating meat again, I did a lot of research how evil all farming is basically. I know now that's not exactly true.

Like a lot of farms do not have that sort of brutality. A lot do, you know, capitalism is a thing, but a lot don't, you know? So later on, sometimes I get in my head about stuff and I, after we fully started eating meat again, one of the big things in the group was like, you wouldn't eat meat because you couldn't kill a cow. You couldn't do that personally. And so most people can't really know. I just got really in my head about hunting and learned how to hunt and properly skin

animals and prepare them for food because I was so in my own head, like, if I can't do this, I can't eat meat. That's how I was able to justify it. But she wasn't out killing kangaroos and koalas. It was just baby rabbits. Just rabbits. So I hunt them with a bow and arrow and then I skin them and get the meat off them and I normally just leave it out for the crows because I don't have like, my family doesn't really like it so I can't bring the meat home because mum doesn't like it because we don't know where they've been, like what diseases they've got and whatever. And also bringing an animal carcass home is

a bit much even for her. So I just, I skin them and leave them out for the crows. But one day I'll learn how to tan hides when it doesn't like have an area or stink up. But yeah. You know, that feels like an only in Australia type of thing in the most badass way possible. Now, mind you, there is quite a rabbit problem in Australia. In fact, in 1859, a wealthy settler from Europe brought 13 cute little bunny rabbits with him for hunting. He set them loose in his backyard, dissolved to 60 years later. There were an estimated 10 billion, that's B billion, rabbits roaming the land. In fact, the country of Australia built an entire fence, a rabbit-proof fence they called

it, from the south to the north, the entire length of Australia trying to curb these rabbits and it didn't work. And the country of Australia has spent the last 100 years fighting these varmints that spread disease, destroyed crops, and ravaged the land. In fact, today there are an estimated 200 million rabbits in the country, which cost the Australian economy more than $200 million per year. So Hannah hunts them and helps out her country by killing these adorable little animals. And so Hannah, she had basically left the vegan world behind, but that didn't mean she didn't wish to visit her old friends at the sanctuary. And get one more whiff of the lamp-poop diaper-filled garage.

Mmm. Smells like home. and get one more whiff of the lamp poop diaper filled garage. Smells like home. Actually, after we left, I went to their new sanctuary farm and we were in their local town and I went and got a pizza because I was really hungry. I had a non-vegan pizza and I brought it back to their house and I had it in my lap while we were on the car ride home and I saw a dead cow in a paddock and I was like, oh, that's really sad. I said that out loud and the sanctuary lady, she goes, you contributed to that with that pizza, you know that, right? And I was like, what? I've never gone and visited them again after that. No one wants to get cheese shamed.

Yeah. Also, does she know that the cows, they don't have to die to produce cheese? Let's not spoil the surprise. And so this was the last straw for Hannah and it made her close the door on her past. However, she still had some work to do. I went to my therapist and I was like, I'm ready to do some trauma work and talk about this group. And she was like, have you thought maybe they're also a cult?

It wasn't just the Jehovah's Witnesses. And I was like, maybe. And then I started thinking about it more and it's like how hard it was to leave and how our entire life became about the group and the shunning. It meets most of the criteria for a high demand group so yeah. I think mum still feels really guilty about it because obviously she was the adult in the situation but you know one day I hope she'll be able to forgive herself and be able to realise for what it was. Because it wasn't her fault, nobody joins a cult.

You join a community, so yeah. Humans need community, like we're a social species, obviously, but I think the part is where it gets tricky is when they're limiting you from doing other things and from talking to other certain types of people. If your community comes with stipulations it's probably you know not the best place for you to be like if you make a group of friends and they're like you can only hang out with us if you do such and such probably just watch out a little bit. I'm part of the Geelong Embroidery Guild here. Yeah, you know, me and the other 90-year-olds all worship embroidery. So, yeah, you're not sewing with satin wool. You're gone. But yeah,

yeah. So I think humans need community. I think just some things turn insidious. I think that's the right word. You've just got to watch out, keep your wits about you. If there's a gut feeling that something's maybe a bit like, well, I'm not sure about this, you know, if you're not sure about waking up at 6am to go watch a duck get shot out of the sky, probably don't go. That's my advice. You know what? That's fantastic advice, Hannah. I think that sums up Colt's pretty well. Yeah. If you don't want to wake up at 6am and watch the metaphorical duck get shot, just leave.

So Hannah, her 20 year old self, is moving past her hardcore vegan life, but she still has a lot of love for keeping certain things alive. So I'm an apprentice horticulturalist. I have a massive green thumb. I work on a golf course. I do the gardens there. My sister's still in high school. She's about to finish. So proud of her for finishing after everything that happened. I would like to go to university one day. I'm not super good at school, so maybe one day that's my goal. But other than that, I would like to have my own farm But perhaps this time without 20 lambs living in her dining room. And as for Hannah's mother Well, she found love once again and so did Hannah. They met on I think

Christian mingle We love him so much. We call him dad He's like for because we don't have anything to do with a biological father, so for all intents and purposes, he's dad. We have an older stepbrother now. He's great. The whole family is great. They really accepted us.

I love my family now. And that everyone is today's story, how one young girl went from witness to meatless to cultless. And now is a bow wielding badass with a green thumb and a taste for rabbit stew. And a side of light embroidery. Thanks everyone for listening and thank you Hannah for waking up so early on a Saturday morning to conduct the interview with Liz. Next week we'll be back so join us for another fantastic episode.

Was I, Nicole? Does written, produced and hosted by me, Liz Iacuzzi. And me over here. I'm Tyler. Tyler Meesom. Rob Perra is our audio producer and sound designer. Thank you, Rob, for all your hard work. And we have a new addition to our roster, the audio editor Greta Stromquist.

Thank you, Greta. We've loved having you on board so far. Thank you for all your hard work. Social media maven is our, of course, the lovely Shani Payton. And Stephen Labrum, our Sartorally blessed executive producer. That's it. Let's go have a burger. Go eat some lamb. Yeah, I'm hungry.

You know what I think is ironic is this episode has not one, but two ads for food. For food. Yes, it's true. Make sure you check Meat Eater. Ha ha. Speaking of ironic, you know what's ironic? When you have 10,000 spoons. And all you need is a burger.

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