Was I In A Cult? - Hollyweirder: “Nothing is Free”

Episode Date: December 16, 2021

Hollywood is filled with the rich, the famous, and the people looking to take advantage of both. Because everyone in Hollywood is either someone, knows someone, or claims to be able to help you become someone. So when actress Lindsey McKeon, and singer/performer Jessica Sutta, stumble into an impressive acting class led by a teacher claiming to take their work to the next level, they don't bat an eye. But it would be years of financial and emotional abuse disguised as self-growth before the two of them would realize... holy sh*t - their teacher turned "guru" is in fact... a cult leader.

Were you just talking to that mic? Hey, hey, one, two, three, four, five. Oh, my god. I'm so fucking tired. All righty. Holy shit, pregnancy really makes you fucking tired, dude. It's wonderful. I lost contact with my vagina and my feet, but other than that, we're good. Can I put that on the episode? Yes. That's going to be my cold open. This is nothing to do with being a cult, but she has no contact with her vagina or her feet. My husband tells me it's still there and intact, so we're good. You know, I would have thought you'd have waited until seasontwo before we started an episode talking about a vagina. You should lower your expectations of me, Tyler. Welcome to Was I Anna Colt. I'm Tyler Miesom.

And I'm Liz Ayakuzzi. And today we're going to loosen the reins a bit because we're talking to two wonderful friends of mine. Whoever thought we'd be sitting in a podcast recording studio talking about our experience of how we met. This is crazy. Wild. While I'm glad that we met so it was a good thing. That's the best thing. It's the best thing. Yes today we will cover more of the acting class turned self-help cult that I was in. Keep in mind that we did cover this group in episode 12, Thief of Dreams, and you should listen to that if you haven't already because if I hadn't heard these stories I would have never believed that an acting class

could be a cult. And neither did we, Tyler, for a long time. Take out your night. Purify me. Don't spare my life. Crucify me. I just said, like, cult is such a jarring word. Yeah, and you could be like, soul cycle, consider that a cult. But, like, is such a jarring word. Yeah, you could be like soul cycle, consider that a cult. But like, is that?

Veganism. Or like being a Laker fan, you're like, can be obsessed with the Lakers, but you get to go home after the game and it's not a typical cult, right? It's not like we're not living on a compound together. We don't dress in white robes. I mean we did. Sometimes we do. We wore Indian garb and we became vegetarians and we started meditating and we were still, yeah, allowed to go home but the mind control was so thick that we would go back to our homes very differently. Even though there's no like

walls and laws, as she would say, right? There's no like building keeping you in. There's a mentality and a system of insidious behavior that keeps you in. It's your own prison. Meet Lindsay McKin. I was born in Jersey but grew up in LA. My mom and dad met modeling in New York and moved out to LA when I was like four or five years old. Mom and dad got divorced. She never wanted me to get into the business when I was young because she said it's a bad business for children to be in. I had a difficult time in school, so I was looking for an escape and found that. In acting, I started doing commercials around 12, 13. And literally, probably within six months of starting, I got Save by the Bell the New Class.

It's all right, because I'm safe by the film. On the outside, she was cute as a button. You would never know that she was experiencing any struggle. But... Acting gave me somebody else's skin and personality and words that I could live in. But it also led to a lot of other things. It leads you to be around adults doing adult things. Drugs and alcohol became a thing. And you're 12. Yeah. Geez, Louise. Can I just go play in the sandbox, you know? People would tell me at such a young age, you look like you have the weight the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the th somebody the th somebody the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the's the's the's the's the's the's the's the's the's the's the's the's the's the's the's the's the's the's the's the's the's the's the the the the the the the the the their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their play in the sandbox, you know? Right.

People would tell me at such a young age, you look like you have the weight of the world on your shoulders. And I'm like, yeah, I'm carrying my fucking parents and my grandparents, and I'm the only child and everybody wants something from me. And I don't know how to help it or fix it. So despite her early career success, life wasn't always easy. And I had th the th th their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their that I don't know how to get them out, so I started cutting. When I cut myself and when I see pain and feel pain, this is like putting a name to it. This is identifying it, right?

Yeah. I keep on, I just, you know, I'm connected to you guys so deeply and just everything is so similar to my story to hear it out loud. Which is interesting that we were brought together in this life. This is my other dear friend, Jessica Sata. I grew up in Miami with two parents that fucking hated each other. One day when Jessica was just six months old. My dad just didn't make it easy.

He met someone on a business trip and he basically told my mom, I'm going to put you on the street, you've got to find a place. He said, I'm going to put in the house in foreclosure. Almost out on the streets, her mother is forced to work three jobs with two preteen boys and an infant. They were so poor that... She would go and get like three for one pot pies, three pot pies for a dollar. And the kids would eat, my brothers would eat, and then she would eat what they left over. And they would always leave like peas and like the crust.

Basically, I just, right off the bat from when I was a child I had abandonment issues. My mom, you know, she did the best she could, but I didn't really have like an easy go from the beginning. So Jess too turned to the arts for a healthy outlet of self-expression. I started dancing at three and I remember being on stage for the first time. It was like the most incredible experience. What did it do for you? I just remember that feeling instantly of like I love making people laugh and I love being like on stage with the lights on me and then when I went to school and they started getting really good at dance and then that's when the girl started bullying me.

I was Jessica Sleta in the sixth grade even though I had never even kissed a boy. This one girl, she just terrorized me in middle school and she stole my costume before I went on stage. She ripped the buttons off my shirt and I had a padded bra and she like wet it to show everyone that it was padded. So I was just like deathly afraid of people. And sorry I have a lot of trauma, like I'm shaking. Yeah. Take your time. I was like so calm before I got here and now it's like just a weird response.

I don't know if it's the pregnancy, but I'm just like... Shit is real. I get it. So with all the turmoil around her, Jess threw herself into dance. So I went to performing arts high school for dance and started to get some work. I was doing like commercials and music videos. She was just a teenager but... I look like I was 21 that was developed. So I was like clubbing and stuff at 16. It's Miami after all guys, the magic city that lives to party. And Jessica

grew up very fast, getting swept up into the scene as they say. My first boyfriend was 21 and I was 15. He was a Power Ranger. Go Go Power Rangers. I can honestly say I lost my virginity to a power ranger, which is awesome. I never told you guys this little thing. That's the new information. Was he on the TV shows? Yes.

So I was like watching him and you were fucking... Cool. Cool. Cool, cool, cool. Cool. I was watching He-Man in the Masters of the Universe. Did she fuck any of them? Those cartoons? Yeah, I'll ask if she did. Okay. Heman doesn't have any genitals, right? He's like, Kendall 2.0. Are you telling me that the Master of the Universe doesn't have a penis, Liz? Call me the dream crusher. Side note, although Jess and I make light of this and their relationship was consensual, this is still technically and legally statutory rape. My mom is super Catholic. She was very strict on me.

I never wanted to disappoint her, and I think that's where the people pleasing really came in for me. I told my mom that I lost my virginity. She was just so mad. I remember going outside in the patio and I scratched the fuck out of my arms with my nose. And it was the first time I'd ever cut myself. And to see the blood and to feel that, it's proof of the pain that you're in.

And it kind of sues you in a way, and it sounds so weird. But that's when my cutting started. Just to note for anyone listening, cutting is not a solution for pain, and often leads to much worse physical and mental anguish. After high school I danced for the Miami Heat. My second year I was asked to be captain. That wasn't as fun. You know, because you want to watch the game, then I have to watch the girls. Then I did a really crazy soap opera, which I have to show you guys, called Ocean Avenue.

Megan Fox played my little sister. The scenes between us are just like Oscar worthy. Why don't you do me a big favor and stop playing the big sister thing every time around an older guy. It's not good for my self-esteem. Is that what you read in the team Cosmo this month? Or are you just embarrassed because you're a freak for sister? I never called you a free. Not to make this? Is. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, the thi, thi, thi, the the the th. the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the th, the th. th. th. th. th. thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi thi thi thi thean thean thean toooooooooooooooooooooooooooe the the never called you a three. Not to my face. Okay, what's got you so upset? What was your name? Jody Star. Oh my god, what a name? That writer should be killed. If he's not dead already. And while in New York, Lindsay also landed a soap opera. Guiding light. So you're all over Tony, right? Tony's out of the picture. He's, stop. He's not dead. He's not about Tony. thi he's he's he's he's he's he's he's he's he's he's he's he's he's he's he's he's he's he's he's he's he's he's he's he's he's he's he's he's he's he's th. He's th. He's th. He's th. He's th. th. th. th. th. th. Okay th. Okay that's so that's so that's so that's so th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th thi. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. thi. Okay. Okay. Okay. the the thi. Okay. Okay. Okay. thi. Okay. Okay. So you're all over Tony, right? Tony's out of the picture, he's history. Stop talking about Tony.

It's just you and me now. Just you and me. Do I scare you? No. Well, you scare me? Yeah. Yeah, I like it. And she moved back to LA. Lindsay went on to star and hit TV shows like One Tree Hill and Supernatural. And I had success and I had money and that didn't fulfill me.

Why? Like money and fame, it just didn't do it for me. And I was partying too much, and I didn't know how to stop. Around the same time, Jessica also moved out to LA. My first job was for Smokey the Bear and we were like putting out forest fires with our top hats. They had like sand in our top hats. Dreams do come true. They do come true.

I told you about the barbecues galore that I did. Oh yeah. I had a picture up like on Venta, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, the the their their thia. thia. thia. thia. thu. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. to thi. thi. to too, too, too, too, too, to too, too, too, to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to too, too, too, too, too, too, too, too. too. too. too. too, thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. the, the. the. the. the the. the the. the. the. the. toooooo. too. too. too. too.. Oh yeah. I had a picture up like on Ventura like these white pants with the biggest camel toe. Oh no. You could ever imagine. It was a big picture too and I was like 200 bucks. I was up there for like 10 years. Oh my god. You made 200 bucks? Yeah I made 200 bucks. I'm like sweating profusly. No one's hoarmon's bro. Oh my god I should have worn like a tank tap. tip. tip. tip. tip. tip. tip. tip. tiped. tiped. the the tiped. tiped. the tiped. I was. I was liked. I was liked. I was liked. I was liked. I was liked. I was liked. I was liked. I was liked. I was liked. I was liked. I was liked. I was liked. I was liked. I was liked. I was liked. I was liked. I was liked. I was like, I was like, I was like, I was like, I was like, I was like, I was like, I was like, I was like, I was like, I was like, I was like, I was like, I was like, I was like, I was like, I was like, I was like, I was like, I was like, I was like, I was like, I was like, I was like, I'm the tot the tot tote. I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like s s s s s s s s-a-I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, Oh my god, I should have worn like a tank top. How far are you now? I'm six months. He's cooking still, he's kind of kicking and swimming around and spinning. It's really quite amazing to connect. So, Jessica is working in Los Angeles,

this in the early aughts, and one day, she was invited to audition for a live burlesque show. I went to the audition and audition audition audition audition audition audition audition audition audition audition audition, the audition, the audition, the audition, the audition, the audition, the burlesque show. I went to the audition and there was like 200 people, 200 like really beautiful women. They all wore these like big hair things. So I went to the hair shop and I got a hair, like fall. It wasn't even real it was just like this huge, it looked like a crazy person but it was of course I don't know how to put it in so I like put like two or three thobobtins and I'm I I I I the the the their their their their their th I I I th I I th I th I th I th I thi I thi thi thi th I thi th thoes tho tho tho tho tho tho to to to thi thi to to to to to to to to to to to to to th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. thi th. thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi the really really really really the to to to the to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to the really really really the really really the do this. Oh no. Do the audition, go in the front, like, fucking nervous, so like, start dancing. I do have my first fucking headwhip and my hair falls out

and like goes across the room. So, and then I was like, oh God. So like, I picked it up and like, I made a joke about it, but oh my gosh. That audition was for the Pussycant dolls. And after a year, they evolved into a recording group. And in 2005, they released Don'tcha? And then it was like, our lives were completely changed. Don't you wish your girlfriend was hot like me?

Don't you wish a girlfriend was a freak like me? Don't you? And it was a freak like me Don't you And I was like ins to famous Don't you Get to it the pussycat dolls The pussycat dolls Fusky cat dolls Where's all my pushy cat dolls? I can't hear you

But life in a girl group wasn't always easy. I was new, it was naive, I think I was a little flirtatious, it's just kind of like coming from a Latin culture, you hug and you kiss and you're sweet. Here in LA you just don't know what to do. You don't know if you like high five someone or... What are you talking about? Why are you? Why are you?

Who are you? Go back to Miami. Why are you touching? Why are you making eye contact? Who are you? Go back to Miami. Soon, Jessica took up with someone. And then one thing led to another, and then I fall in love with him. He just was charming and controlling and smart and spiritual and controlling. She said controlling twice. He was bipolar. He was narcicistic. He was bipolar, he was narcissistic, he was verbally abusive.

I just always had really bad taste in men. Like if you were an asshole, I'm like, oh my god, let's move in with each other. You like other women, holy shit, let's co-sign in a car together. You know, I just never made good decisions. But hindsight is 2020. And this man provided the illusion of security she was lacking in male relationships in her life. I think it was so exciting to be with someone that could take control and could teach me

new things about life and shower me with gifts and bring me into a life that I'd never had before. And for the first time in my life, I felt safe. He was the only one that made me feel safe. They eventually moved in together. And then something personal happened in Jessica's life, and she was looking for guidance on how to handle it. And her boyfriend told her about a woman.

She's incredible. She's a life coach. She's also an acting coach, she's kind of psychic. I'm like, okay, that sounds great. So she went to the acting class in Studio City, California, and the room was filled with young but notable actors performing scenes. And the talent was just like over the moon, I was just like, holy shit, what did I just stumble into? Like, this is incredible. At the front of the group was a very eccentricicentric accicicicicicicicicicic accicicicicicicic acting acting acting acting acting acting acting acting acting acting acting acting acting acting acting acting acting acting acting acting acting acting acting acting acting acting, thicentric, thicentric, thic, thic, thic, thi, thi, I, I, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I that, I I I that, I I I I I I I I I I, I, I, I, okay, I, okay, okay, okay, okay, okay, okay, okay, okay, okay, okay, okay, okay, okay, okay, okay, okay, okay, okay, okay, okay, okay, okay, okay, okay, okay, okay, okay, okay, okay, okay, thi, thi, okay, thi, okay, okay, thi, thi. I'm like, okay, thi. I'm like, thi, I'm like, I'm, I'm, like, holy shit, what did I just stumble into? Like, this is incredible. At the front of the group was a very eccentric acting teacher. Much like the previous episode about this cult, we will not name this particular person.

And everyone was all so in all of her. She was pretty aggressive when she would give, like, acting advice. No one was like leaving the room or anything. I was just kind of taking it. You know, I'm just sitting there and then she looks behind me, she goes, wait, who are you? I'm Jessica. Oh my God, I love you. I'm in love with you.

People don't know how good you are inside, but I can see it. Oh, what? She sees me? Whoa. I just remember I was like, that was it for me. I'm accepted, I'm loved. The woman likes me? Holy shit. For Lindsay, her introduction to this class was through another actress. She told me about this woman.

She's got these great acting classes. And I never listened. And then, she was like, well, well, well, well, well, well, well, well, well, well, well, well, well, well, well, well, well, well, well, well, well, well, well, well, well, well, well, well, well, well, well, well, well, well, well, well, well, well, well, well, well, well, well, well, well, well, well, well, th, th, th, th, th, th, I was like, I was like, I was like, I was like, I was like, I was like, I was like, I was like, I, I, I was like, I, I was like, I, I was like, th. She was, th. She was, th. She was, th, th, th, she was, she was, she was, she was like, she was like, she was like, she was like, she was like, she was like, she was like, she was like, she was like, she was like, she was like, she was like, th. She was like, th. She was like, th. She was like, th. She was like, th. She was like, thi. She was like, thi. She was like, fucking acting class. I never listened and then one day she was like, well she has this free life class and I was like, what? That sounds interesting. Lindsay had been on a spiritual quest of her own for some time, reading books like the Celestine prophecy, conversations with God and the alchemist. So the pitch for the life class was right up her alley. I went to one of the free classes in the yoga studio where everybody sits in a circle. This class was a big recruiting tactic for the teacher because it was free, right? Nothing is free should be the name of this show. Well it was actually donation-based. I'll never forget when I went the first time, the guy that that that that that had had had had th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th the name of this show. Well, it was actually donation-based.

I'll never forget when I went the first time, the guy that had brought me said that the teacher recommends donating a week's salary, for you only get out as much as you put in. I did not do that and I thought he was nuts, but, well, my story later. So here Lindsay is in the not-so-free class. I mean I was searching for answers and help and things and so I would ask a lot of questions, right? Basically she had an answer for all of them.

And it just seemed like she had information that I really wanted. She could smell my bullshit and cut through that. And that was something that enticed me and drew me in. It was like sign me up. I've been looking for this. My first class, you guys were both, my first acting class, you guys were both on either side of her. Oh yeah. You know she knew how to play into my competitive nature. Right. So she was like, oh you'd be great here but you won't last six months. And I was like, bitch, really? Don't triple dog near me. I'm not a quitter.

Fuck. I wish I was a quitter. Damn it! So Jessica and Lindsay are enrolled in both the acting and the life classes. I was more drawn to the life class because I just felt like I got more out of that. It was in her living room and she had a chair set up and then she had flowers by her feet that she'd have her disciples going good for her. Her chair is almost like a wooden Indian throne. Her dog maybe in her lap, like white chihuahua. is almost like a wooden Indian throne.

Her dog maybe in her lap, like white chihuahua, big black dog that bites everybody next to her. She had her Indian scarves and her maulabids and her like $10,000 emerald that she'd wear. We were all in a circle. She was in the middle. We were sitting on the floor. Legs. You can't put your feet facing your guru.

People would ask questions and they seemed to really get a chunk of knowledge or wisdom that would help with the problem they were having. But sometimes she would call out one individual and invite them to sit in the smaller throne next to her. And then you have to look into her eyes and then she like asks you questions or strongly suggests and yells at you to do the things, tell you why you're failing at your life basically and how you could be better. You are considered lucky to be put in this quote, hot seat because you get personal coaching

from her. And she would point out things about you in front of everyone. She'd be like, you see where his eyes are placed? You see there in the back of his head? That's why he doesn't book any acting jobs. An actor's job is to be present. And then she would berate him into being present. She'd be like, get present right now. Look at me, get here. Come to me. Do you see where I am? And the person in the chair would always like break down in tears. And then they would get present. It was always a big emotional event. Yeah, and I mean it even got to the point where it's like, well you're not going on this trip.

Like you're not taking the risk. Right. As you remember from the previous episode on this group, this woman is constantly reinventing herself. Like many cult leaders do. She started as an acting coach, evolved to self-proclaim life coach and eventually spiritual guru. After all, the salary of an acting coach is modest. So after attending her own yoga retreat to India, she decided, hey, I can do that. And all of a sudden, the focus shifted to her as a spiritual guide, and less her as a the thi, to to to to to to the the the to the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the coautelieterlietorseauteauteauteauteauteaulioleteer.colietors dole leaders to dole leaders the coa the coa the coa the coa. the coa. the coa. the coa. the coa. the coa. the coa the coa the coa the coa the coa the coa the coa the coa the coa the coa the coa the coa the coa the c. l l.coliioleteea the c.coa the coananananitliolk.coa the c.coa.c.c.c. tea.coa.coa.cli. tea.li.li.li.li.li.li. tea.coa.coa. the the the decided, hey, I can do that. And all of a sudden the focus shifted to her as a spiritual guide and less her as an acting coach. She grew her business by leading retreats, at first locally, but eventually abroad, to

exciting and exotic locales. The India trip was spirituality in practice like I'd never seen before. Getting up at 4 AM and meditating on the Ganges River, going to temples, there's chanting all these little moments of breaking out of my shell and my comfort zone and feeling free. I was like, this is what I want more of. This is what I need. A different way of life. India had gurus and devotion and the study and all of these things that Americans had no idea. You know, we pray to a different God. We paid like the money success God. And this fascinated me.

I used to stay for like a month, at five weeks. The trips cost around $5,000, but I believe years later the price tag doubled. It was my first trip to India, I think, where I had a breakthrough with her. I remember. You were there. Mm-hmm. I just remember you crying in her arms. I remember, like like you had a headband on and I remember he were in the water. You had no idea what you had breakthrough. I don't either. Whatever it was, I wanted that.

I remember making the choice. If I want to truly get everything I have to believe everything. I mean I just went full full full on. For the next seven years. I was on every retreat. I was in every class living breathing studying this and it progressed eventually to me being her mini me and coaching people, becoming a life coach, teaching her classes when she went out of town. Meanwhile, she was spending tens of thousands of dollars. It became my life.

I hung out with her on the weekends or evenings. There were always people like painting her house or doing construction for her, helping her with electronics, or going shopping with her, or taking her kids somewhere. She always wanted us to be around, always come to her house and do things outside of class. She called me her daughter and would say she gave birth to me. Oh shit. You'd always have to listen when she was talking or rub her back. Oh yeah, we were there to rub her shoulders. Holy shit, I don't be there. You were the star. the the the the the the the the the th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. thi thi to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. too. too. to. to. toooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooes. She's to rub her shoulders. Holy shit, I don't do that. You were the star, remember? Her life classes were filled with individuals from all walks of life and socioeconomic backgrounds.

And like in all cults, everyone has their place. And the cult leader is very aware and meticulous about who goes where. In this environment, wealthy and uber wealthy always got treated much better than the starving actors. They paid her mortgage, her Range Rover lease, her expensive sushi dinners, her designer handbags, her kids' life, everything. They were love bombed indefinitely, some might argue. And the stars and known celebrities were also treated with seniority. And Jessica, well she was doing the life classes, the acting classes, the trips. And also privates, one-on-one sessions. And the the the the the the th-s, and the the th-s, and th-s, and th-s, and the-s, and the-s, and th-s, and th-s, and the-s, and th-s, and th-s, and thi-s, and the-s, and their-s, and thi-s, and their-s, thi-s, thi-s, thi-s, thi-s, thi-s, thi-s, thi-s, thi-s, thi-s, thi-s, thi-s, thi-s, th-s, th-s, th-s, th-s, th-s, th-s, th-s, th-s, th-s, th-s, th-s, thi-s, thi-s, thinin, thin, thin, thinnea-sensensi-sensia-sensia-sensia-sensia-sensia-sensia-sensensi-s, the acting classes, the trips, and also privates, one-on-one

sessions. And these private sessions, they weren't cheap. It started 250, then it was 350, then it was 400. She basically said, you're going to sit there and I'm going to speak to your mind. You're going to seep in the information. You're probably not going to know what I'm saying, and you and you, and you, and you, and you, and you, and you, and you, and you, and you, and you thia, and you thi, and you're going, and you're going thi, and you're going their, and you're going thi, and you're going thi, and you're going thi, and you're going thi, and you're going thi, and you're going thi, thi, thi, they're going they're going thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi., thi. So how does an acting teacher become your guru? So she said, Jess, when you get home, I want you to take a picture of me and put it up on your altar. I'm your guru. I heard years later that it almost became a requirement to put her picture on your at-home altar.

As if she were some saint or God? Did she want people to pray to her? Worship would be the word I would use. So do you remember some examples where she made you feel like wow this woman has this mystical. There were things like we would be in chanting for Indian Vedic texts like at a workshop all weekend for hours, invoking the spirit of Kali and Kali is kind of this darker, destructive creature. And then there would be like massive wildfires in Los Angeles happening. And we were like, holy shit, we're creating this. And then you would bow into the floor, and the floor dropped out and I was like in the galaxies floating in space

And me being someone who loved drugs. I'm like holy fuck I could do this without any drugs and be totally sober. This is fantastic Been there on that one Mark Orvik's apartment turned into the third quadrant of the Milky Way all all set to the soundtrack of the Pink Floyd on the Mugama album. And as Lindsay got more involved, people outside the group got pushed further and further away. I started to see my family as different. Anyone outside of our group, they won't understand. They can't speak to us on our level. Right, they don't want to do the work.

So talk about what the work is. For me, it was more about being able to look inside yourself and see why you're having a certain reaction to something, why you're getting angry. And once you become aware of them, then you can have this moment to pause in the awareness and not just have a knee-jerk reaction anymore. It's introspection and self-awareness on steroids, a-a-laught to'-lobeyns and all these self-help teachers. Everything is analyzed.

Everything, of course, except her own behavior and patterns, because, well, narcissism and stuff. You're always checking on you and am I doing things the right way, but then at the end, you never get out of inside of yourself. Because when it's a cult and not actual life coaching or therapy, it's not really about your self-growth. It's about the leader. You're getting more and more trapped inside your own body, more and more imprisoned as you go along. Under her control. She knew I was co-dependent, but she milked off of it. Like the time, Jessica was meeting with a potential manager.

And she's like, listen, Jess, you can't make any decisions without me. And I went with this manager, and she's like, you made the biggest mistake. Everything has to go through her. Everything. She had me convinced at one point that if it wasn't for her, I wouldn't be in the pussycat dolls. I got the job two years prior, and we were already at the height of the success, but she took credit for it, but she was stayed in class,

but I wouldn't, you don't speak up to your guide. You don't correct your guide. Because if you you you you you you you you th you th you th, th, th, if you did correct her, then you would get punished. She would go right into your weakness in the name of growing. And remember, you're sitting in a group setting in front of your peers, your friends, and your lovers. She'd bring up the most vulnerable things that I'd talk about in our sessions. I was shake, and I was not myself. It wasn't healthy. She would say, like, everybody raise your hand if you can see this. So then everybody's raising their hand against you, saying they can see something that you can't see.

A perfect example of thought reform that is used in all cults. It's like stripping down naked in front of people and being laughed at. We get so beaten down, and you see an energy shift because they feel defeated. And then she goes, look, they shift it's they're they're they're they're they're they're they're she goes look they shifted they've grown they're different now. So you think you're doing the work and you're actually denying it. The trauma was never acknowledged. She loved that trauma in acting class because it brought out real work work that you could get awards for. We were doing a comedy we'd have to cry.

I think we're doing something dumb and dumber and we're like crying. If you're not crying, breaking down, broken, you're not a good actor. So it's really dangerous what she's doing. Of course. Especially with people like actors, which are looking for a director to direct them and tell them what to do and how to mold them, and then the the the the the the their she she she she she she she she she she she she she she she she she she their she their she to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to direct them and tell them what to do and how to mold them, and then she leaves to go, whatever. Then it was like, okay, go home.

Leaves these people open, wounded, traumatized with no help or healing. Like, what do you do with that? So why did you guys stay? I asked this question knowing why, but I wanted to hear what fear tactics had taken hold of my friends. I was definitely afraid of losing my career. Many cults have a doomsday prophecy that keeps people in, and that's an easy one to have because end of life is quite often the biggest fear of all. For this teacher, telling her students that they would lose their career, get cancer,

or some other tragic event, was her version of a doomsday. But whatever it is, the motivating factor of all cult leaders to keep their followers close is to instill fear on a regular basis, to create dependence on them. The same equation works in abusive relationships, by the way. She would say, without me, you wouldn't have this life, Jessica. You're so lucky. Because you're a fucking idiot.

Because you're an idiot. And like, you would call us idiots. Yeah. By this time, Jessica was with her boyfriend for three and a half years of abuse and control. We just clearly shouldn't have been together. And after a particularly abusive moment, we broke up, and then I broke my rib on tour,

and I got sent home. And then just I parted my ass off. She would try to express her pain and fears to the teacher. I couldn't express to her. She would just talk at me. You feel like everything is your fault. They make it your fault. You're going against someone th. And th. And th. And th. And th, and th, and th, and th, and th, and th, and th, and th, and th, and th, and th, and th, and th, and thi, and thi, and thi, and thi, and then, and then, and then, and then, and then, and then, and then, and then, and then, and then, and then, and then, and then, and then, and then, and then, and then, and then, and then, and then, and then, and then, and th, and th, and th, and th, and th, and th, and th, and th, and th, and th, and th, and th, and th, and th, and th, and thi, I, I thi, I thi, I thi, I thi, I thi, I then, then, I then, I then, I then, I then, I then, I thi, I thi, and thi, and talk at me. You feel like everything is your fault because they make it your fault. You're going against someone that has narcissistic personality disorder. Jessica started to see small cracks in the group.

And these cracks would widen on the spiritual retreats to India, which no one realized at the time was just an opportunity for further indoctrination, two, sometimes three full weeks of non-stop togetherness. First of all, you're jet-lagged. You've taken a 20-hour flight there. You're tired. You're not well fed.

You're out of it. Then you're just bombarded with crazy India. And then it's like a five-hour drive into Rishikesh. You put your luggage down and rest for just a second, and then you hit the ground running, which means we go into classes. And you're in pretty much 24-7 school. So of course it's gonna change who you are.

100%. And then when you're in India, you drink some water and then you're pissing out of your ass and you're sick and you're just like, oh my god, so then you're even more vulnerable. And I remember her saying like, it's good, you're sick. It's good because you know you're taking it all in more. You've already had the sleep deprivation thing happening. All your defenses are down. What that's also saying is your intuition is down and your fighter flight mechanisms are down and the part of you that can sense danger is down. She has you full control. But what was the real drive behind these retreats? It was money. Dollar dollar bills y'all. And both girls had been shelling out tens of thousands of dollars for years. I would see her twice a week and then the life classes and the acting classes. We were going to no boo for a session sometimes so so so she she she she she she she she she she she she she she she she she she she she she she she she she she she she she she she she she she she she she she she she she she she she she she she she she she she she she she she she she she she she she she she she she she she she she she she she she has she has she has she has she has she has she has she has she has she has she has she has she has she has she has she has she has she has she has she has she has she has she has she has she has she has she has she has she has she has she has she has she has she has she has she has she has she has she she has she she she she she she she she she she she she she she she she she she she she she she she she she she she she she she she she she she she she she she she she she she she she she she she she she she she she she she she she she she she she she she she she she she she she she she she she she she has she she has she has she has she has she has to to to have to have to have to have to have to have to have to have to have to have to have to have to have to have to have to have to have to have to have to have to have to have see her twice a week and then the life classes and the acting classes. We were going to Nobu for sessions sometimes, so I would pay for dinner for that, which is

like $400 and then $400 for the private financially, it was like she was just depleting me. And then one day, Jessica goes to her usual morning life class, and she sees the teacher sitting on her throne in tears. And I'm like, oh my god, my guru is crying, what is wrong? She never showed emotion like that. And she's like, I'm broke. I'm broke.

I can't pay my bills. And I'm looking at her and I'm thinking, I just spent five grand. There's like all the other students spending a shit ton of money. Like, how are you broke? In the same breath, she said, and listen, I'm going to need 10% of all your earnings, because if it wasn't for me, you would not have the career you having. The Pussy Cats would not be together. Eventually, Lindsay became the teacher's star student. Sheenzy became the teacher's star student. She encouraged everyone to look up to her as an example of what true enlightenment looks like.

She would of course always reference in some derogatory fashion who Lindsay was before this work, but now look at her. And at the request of the teacher, Lindsay started to teach life classes herself. But did she pay Lindsay to do this? I'm guessing no. You're guessing right. I've just remembered like actually looking like her and talking like her. And she's like, don't worry, like you'll get yourself back.

You're just using me to channel. And obviously that didn't feel right. I felt like I was losing my mind. I was probably losing my identity. Then I remember at some point, you and I were sitting on my couch doing all her work. And you looked up at me, and you were like, how did this happen? How are we doing everything for her and running her business? Where did

our lives go? I looked at you and I was like, what? And something inside my brain clicked back and it was like, holy shit. My life has become her life. Meanwhile, Jessica had left the group after her teacher's request for 10% of her earnings. And shortly thereafter, the Pussycat Dolls broke up. Was one of them dating Yoko? No, they weren't. The Beatles. That's just for the Beatles.

But Jessica got signed as a solo artist. And my song went number one and it was wonderful. Love is not a gimmick-gimme if you're really with me. Gotta show me, show me. Yeah, yeah. Tell it to me with your mouth but when it all comes down, you got to show me, show me, But the high didn't last very long. And one thing that's another and I wasn't selling singles and the label's like I'm sorry. You're not making this money so I got dropped.

And I was drinking a lot and I just felt lost. And I was like, fuck, maybe I need to get back in. You know, maybe she was right. So, she calls the teacher. I was like, I'm just having a really hard time crying. Get over it! It's just muck in your eye. Just get over it! What? It's muck in my eye? What the fuck are you talking about? And the solution? This teacher lady told her she needed to come to a retreat in Bali at the price of $10,000. This was a specialized retreat for her truly dedicated students, aka her wealthy ones. And I was like, I'm not going to spend 10 grant, I need that money. It just made me feel fucking horrible.

Because you think back and you're like, I'm like your mother, I will always be there for you and don't you worry and you're safe with me sort of thing. But it's all bullshit. She was just trying to take money for me. That's when I realized, oh my god, this is a cult. So she left for good. And only three weeks later. I got signed to independent label. Started doing a lot of shows. I made a great amount of money.

And it was a different experience. But I look back and I'm like, if I would have gone back to her, she would have been like, oh, see, you got signed an independent label and you made all this money because of me. And then it would have been a case of like, I didn't do this on my own, I need her. Forever. Forever. And the truthtook a different route to discovering that she too was in a cult. When did you know it was a cult? I think afterwards

talking to you like we were processing for like a year but I think somebody sent you an article or something and you shared that with me. Is this the same article that Aaron shared with you in the previous episode? That article got around apparently the dirty slot and you you look at that and you look at every single thing a cult does and you're like it went through every single one of these things. Wow I have a way to quantify it. I can finally start to put this thing to rest. Lindsay could get away from the class but getting thing to rest.

Lindsay could get away from the class, but getting the teacher out of her head was a much larger task. I went to the cult debriefer and I did all this work because I felt like there was still a part of my mind that I had not gotten back. I was like clawing my way to find myself, and I getting a little bit more and more back and then Checking and watching like a YouTube clip of her and then halfway through my mind started fucking melting into what she was saying and I was like why is this happening? I was like holy shit. It's like weaving a spell and all the sudden you are inside of this twirling spell. You don't even know what thought is yours anymore. What feeling is yours anymore? What's true? What's right? What's up?

What's down? She'd attached to like my brain, my willpower. But after much work, Lindsay could finally leave that world behind. How do you feel where you're at today? For the most part, I feel pretty amazing. Where does your guru live today? Gee, you are you. It's inside of myself. I'm fully my being, which is fucking amazing. Where does your guru live today? My butt. Jessica.

It's all about the butt. Who is your guru today, Jessica? I'm like, guru is myself. I don't have any gurus. Gurus, it's all bullshit. For me, this whole journey took me to rehab. Then it took me to sober living for a year, and not feeling like a relationship is going to change it, or sex is going to change it,

or alcohol is going to change it, or a guru, I need a guru. No, it took me years. I was rewarded my husband, who is the sweetest soul in the whole world, and it took me to get pregnant, and it took me getting pregnant and feeling a life force inside of me that really woke me up deeper than ever before. What I realize is that you can truly, truly change. You're not stuck because of some things that happened to you in your past. You can outgrow it. I always ask everybody this last question.

If this person was standing in front of you today, what do you think you would say? I don't think I'd say anything. I don't even want to speak to that person. I've already made my piece. I've said my piece. I have literally nothing else to say. Honestly, I would thank her. I know that sounds so fucking weird. You made me eventually realize that I needed to break away from these fucking patterns that were destroying me... th. th. And. And. And. And, th. And, th. And, th. And, th. And, th. the. the. th, the, th, th, thi. thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, what thi, what thi, what thi, what thi, what thi, what thi, what thi, what thi, what th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi. What thi. What thi. What thi. What thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi I needed to break away from these fucking patterns that were destroying me. And fuck you. Ha ha ha.

Thank you and fuck you. And fuck you. And fuck you. You guys are inspiring. Thanks, Lisa. Thank you. Can't wait to never talk about this again. Yes. and Jessica for sharing your story so vulnerably with us. And yes guys Jessica

gave birth to a beautiful baby boy this year. He's the cutest. Thank you for support listeners and for sharing us with your friends and family and loved ones. Every listener counts. Join us next week guys for a very special Christmas bonus episode. It's it's fucking crazy. It's in your stocking. It's in your bonus episode. It's, it's fucking crazy. It's in your stocking. It's in your stocking. If you're good. If you're good.

And if you have a story of your own that you'd like to share on this show, please email us at info at was I in a cult. We would love to hear your tale. Many of the stories you hear on this show actually come from from th from th from th from th from th from th from th from th from th from th from th from th from th from the th from th from th from th from the th from th of the stories you hear on this show actually come from listeners writing in. So don't be shy if you have a story, write to us. We've heard it's quite empowering. Was I an occult a story produced and written by Liz something something sarcasm Iacuse. And the milk toast boring white male Tyler Mesa.

An executive producer is Maya Cole Howard. Supervising producers Ari Basile. Audio editor Chandler Mays. And our publicist is Lauren Dutton Brin. And our fan of the week is Lindsay Rappaport. Lindsay Rappaport. Handle is at Lindsay underscore rep. Thanks for sharing the love. We appreciate you. really makes you fucking tired, dude. You're supposed to be on the other side of the fatigue, right? No, not this trimester. Oh, this one's the worst. Well, the first trimester is like the worst. The worst, worse.

And then now you have that. Great. When you have your baby, get ready, babe.