Was I In A Cult? - MLM LuLaRoe: “What’s your why?”

Episode Date: January 27, 2022

She's a hustler, baby. And she just wants you to know.  Roberta Blevins was taught to be a self-starter. Inspired by her self-made father, she knew that if you put your mind to it, anything can happen. And it's true. Anything can happen. But that's the problem with anything. Anything sometimes includes MLM's. Multi-level marketing (schemes).  This is a story of a dynamite go-getter and how she crawled her way into a box of fart leggings and eventually... crawled her way out.    --   Follow Roberta's Anti-MLM Movement:    Instagram - @therealrobertablevins @lifeaftermlmpodcast   Listen to her podcast "Life After MLM": Spotify Apple   --   Contact us with your stories to be featured on the show: [e-mail]   Follow us: Instagram  Please support Was I In A Cult? Through Patreon --   Michael Scott tried his hand at a "new company idea"  See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

M-LM is a utopian idea. You put yourself in that utopian mindset. You're going to have so much more time freedom. You're going to be a better mother, a better wife, a better woman, a better partner, everything. None of this is real. Welcome to Was I in a Cult? I'm Liz Aikuzzi. And yet again, I am Tyler Miesum.

Now, for those of you who are new to our little show, we, here, tell tales of those who were in and left cults. And for those who need help understanding our format, we bring lightness and levity to intense stories for a number of reasons, but mainly because we are showcasing the fact that people don't need to live in their trauma. Yes, and everyone thus far we've interviewed has healed enough to be able to reflect on their experience without re-traumatizing themselves. And we use humor because a spoonful of sugar makes the medicine go down. In fact, the guests are often the one who are laughing the most as they recall some of the

absurdities that the cult they were in presented them. And they're thrilled to be given a space that humanizes them and their experience. Our guests appreciate that. It makes them feel seen and heard, as as eagles, not as an animal in a zoo that everyone wants to look at but is terrified to touch. They also appreciate having the subject matter handled by people, Liz and I, who have been through it ourselves. Our guests are strong, badasses who are brave enough to tell their stories. And we give them that platform.

But again, any time you try something new, i.e., blending comedy with trauma, there are some who just don't quite get it. In fact, some trolls have reacted poorly to our use of levity, thinking we undermine the guests' experience or make fun of them. But mind you, if you actually listen to the show, we never make fun of the guests. We only ever make fun of Tyler. That's true. So today, we are going to try something new. Well, not new, but familiar, perhaps.

We're going to approach this episode about a woman who was in a cult with gravity and somberness. There will be no jokes, there will be no fun, there will be no light. Any uplifting moments of survivorship or transformation post-cult will be left out. We now present to you the new and improved, more somber, was I in a cult? Phrush! Phrush! Phrush! We love you, our listeners, and we love this show, and we will never, ever abandon it.

Yes, and we are incredibly excited about today's quite wacky episode. Oh man, this little lady, she is a force. We've been wanting to tackle this type of cult for a long time. Because this is something many don't assume to be a cult. Because it seems like a business. Tyler, I know you watch many documentaries about cults. Oh man, so many cults, so little time. And one that we both enjoyed was Lula Rich, a doc series on Amazon.

Guys, if you haven't watched it yet, 100% check it out. You'll never look at stretch pants the same way again. And one of the people the people the people the people the people the people the people the people the people the people the people the people the people the people the people the people the people the people the people the people the people the people way again. And one of the people that was featured in that series, well, she didn't stop talking after the cameras quit rolling. In fact, she's with us here today. She is the amazing Roberta Blevins, a San Diego girl born and bred. And a daddy's girl from a very young age. My dad was amazing. Amazing man.

We lost him in 2013 to pancreatic cancer very quickly. We enjoyed those last couple months. I went over as much as I could. He always asked for a Big Mac and a Coke, so I'd bring him over a Big Mac. And we'd sit and we talked and, you know, I held his hand as he took his last breath and I leaned down and whispered in his ear and told him it was okay to go. He was my coach for everything. I was a total daddy's girl and so losing him so quickly was just devastating.

The whole year after my dad died because I mentioned I would bring him Big Max. I would equate the feeling of eating a cheeseburger with being with my dad. I was in a very unhealthy place, emotional binge eating. Like, dang, that butterfinger, it's the only thing that's going to make me feel better right now. I gained a bunch of weight. And then one day, her cousin reached out. She was like, oh my god, if you're looking to lose weight, I just started with this company, we've got these wraps, I'll send you one see if it works for you. It's just this thing that you like sleep with and the lotion is supposed to like, I don't

know, make you skinny. Magic, skinny lotion. I also have lotion that makes me smart. We better lather that one on Tyler because you're going to need it this episode. We cover things like math. Great. So skinny wraps and lotion may have sounded too good to be true. But it was her cousin whom she trusted.

And the process makes for an exciting night sleep. Oh, you bet it does. You saran wrap yourself like your Kathy Bates overnight. Part of the deal was that she had to take a before before before before before before before before before the before the before the before to to the before to to the the to the to to the to the to the was that she had to take a before and after picture. I even remember like doing my before and after pictures and just letting it hang out in my before. Then like sucking it in my after. I didn't even think at the time like this is deceitful. It was more like I didn't want to let my cousin down.

And she's like, it worked. It's to Works. Just so we're clear about this company, It Works. It don't work, y'all. It's all bullshit. All bullshit. All of it. Instead, try healthy eating. Also, don't use saran wrap for leftovers. Buy the beeswax.

Yeah, we have that. It's really cool. And the way you get it to work, guys I didn't know that. Yeah. Okay. There you go. That's how you use the beeswack covers. But for Roberta, she found comfort in the product and in the camaraderie. So her cousin invited her to a Facebook party for the group and asked her to bring friends. And a ton of people were buying stuff, like a ton of people. And my cousin comes to me and tha and the the the the the tha. th. thoom. tho tho tho tho the, the, the, the, the, that's that's the, the, that's the, that's that's that's that's that's that's the, she tho, that's that's that's that's, she's, she's, she's, she's, she's, she's, she's, she's, she the, she the, she the, she the, she the, she the, she the, she the, she the, she the, she the, she the, she's the, she's the, she's the, she's the, she's the, she's the, she's the, she's tho, tho, tho, thoomoomoomoomoomoomorrow, thoomoomorrow, thoooooooooomooomoomoomorrow, she's the, she's th me and she's like, look, you can either get free stuff or you can join. All the stuff that you want is in the intro kit plus more that you didn't

even know you wanted. So I was like, well, how much does it cost? And she's like, the kid's 99, but what you were planning to buy was like 130. So you're going to save $31 and you're going to get more. And I will put all the the the thiiiosos thios thios thi $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $30. thoan, thoan, tho $1. tho. tho $1. tho. thi. thi. tho. tho $1. tho. tho. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. th. th. th. And th. th. And th. th. th. And th. th. And th. And th. And th. And th. And th. And th. And th. And th. And th. And th. And th. And th. And th. And th. And th. And th. And th. And th. And th. And th. And th. And th. And th. And th. I th. I th. I th. I th. I th. I th. I. And I will put all of these sales and these people underneath you. You'll get a bonus check, you'll get paid, you'll do all these things. I was like, duh. Of course I'll join. And why shouldn't she? I mean, Roberta knows a deal when she sees one. And she was interested in extra revenue.

Who isn't? I mean, those Disneyland tickets don't buy themselves, you guys. I was always the person that, coming from the background I came from, always wanted to make sure that my children never wanted for anything. My dad owned car dealerships in San Diego. I grew up very comfortable, but there's a lot of naivete in privilege as well. I never would question people's motives. Like if you're nice to me, like I nice to me. Like I never ever thought nefarious things. I'm also the kind of person that's always a perpetual people pleaser. I'm literally the perfect victim.

But also, I've always been a hustler. Her husband had a good job that took care of the bills, but any additional income was up to Roberta. She was working as a hairstylist, but she's not the type to sit still. She was always doing side gigs for added revenue. I would make customized crafty things for my friends on the side. I had a blog that I was monetizing. So joining It Works seemed like a good way to make a few extra bucks. But in order to do that, she needed to sell the product, fat wraps, diet lotion, smoothies, and other stupid shit that they claim makes you instantly skinny and healthy. Because as it turned out, it works is an MLM. A mLM. A multi-level marketing

scheme or company. A business. A BNF. When you join an MLM, the first thing that they're going to ask you to do is they're going to ask you to create a list of at least 50 people that you know. Write down as many names as you can on this list. We're also alternatively told, scroll through Facebook, and you look for people complaining. I guess it beats the people scrolling through Facebook looking for news. They're complaining about being overweight. Our cellulite cream can fix that. Our rap can fix that. Our pill can fix that. You need to reach out to them and let them know that you have the answer. You're not using their strife and grief for your monetary gain. You're blessing their lives because this company has changed yours.

So she would try and sell these supplements and skinny wraps at craft fairs. I had like the little samples in these little cups and everyone's gonna love it. People take a sample and they try and they go, oh, thank you. And they would walk away and I'm like, I felt like an idiot. Felt inauthentic. I'm not a fitness gurow. I'm not a wellness person. I was with that works for like three months. I made like 700 bucks. I was like, I don't like this MLM-E pyramid thing.

I don't want to do that bullshit anymore. So a bit more about MLMs, guys. MLM stands for multi-level marketing. You might know it by its many other names, direct selling, social-selling, social marketing, you're basically a rep for the company, and you try to sell their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their and you try to sell their products and make money. So the product-based ones where you're selling lipstick, clothing, shake, smoothies, that kind of stuff. I love your MLM voice. I know, right?

Clothing, shakes, smoothie. Are you sick of living paycheck to paycheck and wish you can be bigger than you are in this world? I have the answer. It's in this bottle of pills that is $75 for two weeks. And you're gonna be perfect for this, I can tell. And you're just like, oh my god, I wanna join this, what is it? Sounds innocent enough, right? And a lot of these companies have products that are tailored towards women. Some of the more commonly known ones are new skin, Amway, Mary Kay, Avon, Arbon, Tupperware. And then there are others with more creative names like Mona Vana Veneu, and Manatech and Stamping Up. Sportron, Sensi, Univera, Usana, Vemma, Hygienics, Eureka, Plexus, Zango,

and some names that read like a cult instruction manual Nature Sunshine Party Light Sunrider, Young Living, Vestage, Forever Living, Relive, OmniLive, Purple Life, Japan Life, Take Shape for Life, Free Life, Neo Life, New Life, and Get a Life. Those are real names. The ones that you would get caught up in if you were a man are going to be more like the service-based, like Primarica, ACN, which sells cell phones. Oh, I've never even heard that one. Forex trading, which is like the foreign exchange and crypto trading and things. They're like training courses.

So where does the deceit come in? The scam is within the selling of the course and getting more people underneath you to buy the course. And every single MLM will that it th th th th th th that it th th th th th th th th will th th th th th th the th th th th the th th th the th th th th the th th the are the the the the their their their the. the. they're they're they're they're they're their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their they are they are they are they are they are they are they are they are they are they are they are they're they're their. I are going their. I are going to be to be more. Ia. I'm to bea. I'm toe. I'm toe. I'm toe. I'm toe. I'm toe. I'm their their their their the buy the course. And every single MLM will tell you that it's not about the product. The product sells itself. They don't sell themselves. Just as a disclaimer in my previous profession, I sometimes produced videos for numerous MLMs. You haul. You sell out whore?

They are incredibly prevalent in my former state of Utah. So before you listeners do your research and right in to scorn me about being a hypocrite Just know that I too was conned by the money But as Bob Dylan says I was so much older than I'm younger than that now Are you though because I'm looking right at you sir. How there's no filters in real life? Sorry, and Roberta she too had thou had that she had left the MLM world behind? bu. but but but like but like but like but like but like but like but like but like but like? the? There. the? There. their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their's their's their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their. their. their. their. their. their. their. their. I I their. I their. I their. I their. I t. I'll te. I'll te. I'll te. I'll te. I'll te. I'll te. I'll te. I'll te. I'm their their thought that she had left the MLM world behind. But like a dormant herpes virus, it crawled its way back up to the surface. Taken directly from a page in Liz's memoir. They're called Cold Sores, okay? And you treat them the same way.

So next year, I heard about Lularo for the first time. And it was in a mom's group. We're just an online the online the online the the of the moms posted a picture of her like playing with her kids and her leggings were super cute. And I was like, oh my god, those legs are so cute. She's like, oh, they're Lulao. Do you want to buy one of my youth pairs? And I was like, sure.

She mailed them, like Luau at the tourist shop, you know what I mean? And people are like, oh my god, your leggings is so cute. All right, just so we're clear, most of the leggings are not very cute. In my humble opinion, they are often loud and they have awful designs. But you guys be the judge. Pause the episode and go Google Lularo leggings right now. It's a treat. Maybe you should wear sunglasses because they are gonna blind you.

So I'm thinking like, okay, I like him, I want to buy another pair. But I want to buy a fun print that I want now. The desirable prints are called unicorns because in Lularo everything is limited edition. A tried and true marketing strategy. Just look at the sneaker community. It's exclusive and creates a sense of urgency.

I want it now before it's too late. Operators are standing by. So I'm looking and I find this pair. And I'm like, oh my god, that's my unicorn. They were black with rainbow octopus all over. Beautiful. I love them. Do you have them with you?

I do not have them with me. I have them somewhere. I want to try them out. Yeah, I should have brought you some leggings. No, you didn't. So I told you didn't have some leggings. No you didn't. So I got online. No you didn't.

Yes. And I bought mystery leggings. Stop it. Which I believe means you know you get whatever leggings you're supposed to get. But I think the real mystery is who the fuck would wear these ugly things. I got two pairs of mystery leggings. Come on give me. And we are the the the the th. th. th. th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th th th th th thi, I thi, I thi, I thi, I thi, I thi, I thi, I'm tho, I'm thi, I'm thi, I'm tho, I'm tho, I tho, tho, tho, tho, tho, tho, tho, tho, tho, tho, tho, tho, tho, tho, tho, tho. I th. I th. I th. I th. I th. I th. I th. I th. I th. I th. I thi, I thi, I thi, I thi, I thi. I thi. I thi. thi. I thi. thiia. I thia. thia. I thia. thia. thia. I thi. I thi.. And we are going to wear them for the rest of this show. Which ones do you want? I'll take the hideous ones on the left.

Oh my God. Can you describe those to the audience? They're kind of... Well, they're rather soft. They are actually really soft. Wow, I kind of get it. Mine are kind of red. Oh, the inside is soft. They have triangles and flowers. They're the flowers. Trien. They have their. They have their. They have their. Wow. Wow. Wow. Wow. Wow. Wow. Wow. Wow. Wow. Wow. Wow. Wow. Wow. Wow. Wow. Wow. Wow. Wow. Wow. Wow. Wow. Wow. Wow. Wow. Wow. Wow. Wow. Wow. Wow. Wow. Wow. Wow. Wow. Wow. Wow. Wow. Wow. Wow. Wow. Wow. Oh. Oh. Oh. Oh. Oh. Oh. Oh. Oh. Oh. Oh. Oh. Oh. Oh. Oh. Oh. Oh. Oh. Oh. Oh. Oh. Oh. Oh. Oh. Oh. Oh. Oh. Oh. Oh. Oh. Oh. Oh. Oh. Oh. Oh. Oh. Oh. Oh. Oh. Oh. Oh. Oh. Oh. Oh. Oh. Oh. Oh. Oh. Oh. Oh. the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the theangles and flowers all over them. It looks like Rudolph threw up on these. Wow. We're going to try these on and then we'll put a picture on our Instagram. Yeah. Okay taking a break we'll go into the bathroom and put them on. Okay. When did you get it? Months ago. I have been keeping that secret for so long. Wow, they are really comfy. They are actually comfy. These aren't normally leggings I would wear.

In fact, I don't... Would normally ever wear leggings. But they're shapely. And I can see the allure. I suppose, I mean, they are hideously ugly. But they're very soft. So you're welcome, Liz. Liz Liz Liz, Liz, Liz, Liz, Liz, Liz, Liz, Liz, Liz, Liz, Liz, Liz, Liz, Liz, Liz, Liz, Liz, Liz, Liz, Liz, Liz, Liz, Liz, Liz, Liz, Liz, Liz, Liz, Liz, Liz, Liz, Liz. th, Liz. th, th, th, th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. they're they're they're they're they're they're they're they're they're they're they're they're they're they're they're they're they're they're they're they're they're they're they're th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. thi. thi. thi. the. the. thooooooooo. the. they're they're they're they're they're they're they're they're they're they're I suppose, I mean, they are hideously ugly. But they're very soft. So you're welcome, Liz. Thank you.

That was amazing. Um, okay, where were we? So if I'm willing to jump through all these hoops to get these pants, there's a lot of other people that are willing to do it too. For two to three months, Roberto, to to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, working with 10 to 15 consultants to help her find rare exclusive items. And occasionally she would get on the Lula Roe website to find clothes. And treat herself to a few fantastic propaganda videos, like this one.

I've cried like six times. It's the community. It's just everybody saying like, I miss you, I love you. Daniel Delgado's speech of we don't sell clothes. We sell, we sell community, we sell empowerment. Totally true. Absolutely true. You are not selling clothes. You are giving people freedom, you are giving people life.

You are giving people hope, you are giving people confidence. Now as a customer, she would be part of the consultants' sales groups. And every so often the consultants would just slide in a little pitch. You know, you might be really good at this. Do you want to hear more? Would you like to hear how you, too, can become your own entrepreneur? Sure. Yeah, well, you know what, you should join us this Wednesday for an opportunity call. All you had to do was dial in at the right time. After all, it's just a phone call, right?

And so Roberta, she innocently dials in. And lo and behold, guess who's on the call? It was Deanne, the owner, on the other end of the line, telling her story, like, this is the owner of this really important company, who's taken an hour to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to their their thoen of thoen, thoen, thoen, thoen, thoen, thoen out of her day every week to talk to us about how amazing this company is. She is referring to Deanne Brady, the founder of Lula Rowe. Quick rundown, in 1998, Deanne Brady was a mom on a budget looking for a way to clothe her daughters.

She found inexpensive dresses that she bought wholesale and started selling them to other moms at selling parties. Eventually, Deanne started making her own dresses and selling them. And in 2012, Deanne and her husband, Mark Stidham, founded Lula, in Corona, California. The company's name was derived by combining the names of Brady's first three granddaughters, Lucy, Lola and Monroe. Mark and Deanne are also Mormon, which I could say a lot about it being my former religion slash cult, but I'll leave it aside for the sake of time. Gosh, damn it, I wanted to hear about your crazy people.

Oh, you will. Dan and Mark elected not to start a regular brick and mortar business, but sell their products through individuals or sales reps. And these sales reps actually started selling a shit ton of dresses and leggings. By 2014, the company had 750 of these distributors and Lula Rowe did 9.8 million in clothing sales. By 2016, it sold a reported 1.8 billion. That's B billion dollars in clothing.

These distributors, i.e. regular people selling leggings on their Facebook, were making money in the early days. And some of these women would be on the opportunity call and would tell their stories. And I would listen while I did dishes and made dinner. It's like, I just heard about this woman who was on food stamps for 10 years, and then she joined Lula Roe and now she has a lake house. It made me feel really good to hear these success stories. And it allowed me the freedom to dream wildly. If I had that lake, they're today to have like a dog,

and then we could get like a pontoon boat, and then we could like spend like spend spend spend spend spend spend spend spend spend spend spend spend spend spend spend spend spend the summers the summers the summers the summers s spin the summers s s s s s s s s s s s s s s s s s s s s s s s s s s s s s s s s saui in the summers the summers their their saq in their saq in their their their saq and their their their their their their their their their their their their their then we could like spin the summers on the lake. They're separating me from reality from day one. A popular cult tactic. And Roberta becomes obsessed with the idea of living the life of her dreams. I'm doing that for months and months and months, right? It consumed my every thought. And I'm watching people sell Lularo. And it is flying off the shelves. I'm watching people buy the ugliest things I've ever seen in my entire life and they are squealing over it.

She just wanted a taste of whatever it was. But in order to start selling and working as a self-empowered entrepreneur, you had to first buy the product. $5,000 worth. I mean, but all these other women did it, look at them now. They're sunning on their lake house, Liz. Their lake house. These women claiming to go from stay-at-home moms to boss-ass bitches. I said, I've got good credit, I can get a business credit card.

I can put it on there, I can sell it, I can pay it off. And my husband keeps going, no, it's too much. But that didn't that from investigating. At least once a week I was on an opportunity call. I'm listening to these women cry about I had nothing and now I have everything and I'm looking around going I want to have everything too. I can sell leggings. This is way better than weight loss pills. People don't need to wear fat wraps, but people have to wear clothes because it's the law. You can't just be naked all the time. They don't let you do that, right?

Tell that to my three-year-old. And I start thinking, and now it's consuming my mind so much that I'm like, I'm just going to reach out to somebody who's successful. And I start looking on YouTube. And she asks me immediately, where do you live? San Diego? I've got a girl in San Diego. Let me add her to our chat. Immediately. Hi, oh my God, this is so amazing.

You should come over and try on some clothes. She had set out an entire spread of clothes for me. I ended up buying a couple things, and we talked about the opportunity. She's like, I've been able to quit my corporate job and I do this full time. This woman sat her down, held her hand and asked her why she would want to join. In MLM you have this thing called a Y and it's your reason for doing it. My Y is my children. Why? Because I love them. Why? Because they're everything I've ever wanted in my life. Why? To the point of tears.

Roberta leaves without signing up, but the woman didn't leave her. Hater's gonna hate. Recruiter's gonna recruit. She's messaging me every day. Hey, and I'm like, my husband's still on the fence. And they're like, well, he just doesn't see your potential. Potential is a dangerous word. Never fall in love with someone's potential. And if a person starts talking about your potential and how you're falling short of it without their help, run. Run. Run. Run. as fast as you can.

Don't look back. But only... But also don't look back while you're running. Right, because then you might hit a bear or a tree stump. Where the hell are you running with the bear? I don't know, I'm in a forest. You're going to make more money than him and he'll be jealous. They're turning him into an enemy so that anything he says,

I'm already going to be skeptical about this was a good idea and I eventually broke him down. He goes, if you want to do it, then just do it. So I joined. Now again, to get started you have to buy the product that you are going to turn around and then sell. These products come in various packages called kits. And the biggest and most expensive kit comes with free stuff. Snacks? Snacks, tellor. Where there's snacks? I am vaxed, waxed, and ready for snacks, Liz. They always were like, you're not just Roberta, the mom, you're Roberta the business owner.

What would Roberta the business owner do? She'd buy the biggest package. Which is what she does, and she signs all the paperwork, but she is th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, the, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th. th. th. thi, thi, they, thi, thi, they. thi, they. thi, thi, thi, th. th. th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi. thi. thi. toa. toa. toa. toa. toa. toa. toa. toa. ta. tha. tha. tha. tha, tha, th paperwork, but she is told by Lula Rowe that there's a six-week wait because there's not enough clothes. We just can't make it fast enough because it's so popular. More enticing and disgusting marketing tactics to create that feeling of FOMO. So in the meantime, they told her to focus on the prep. So as soon as the product arrives, you're ready to hit the ground running. You're going to need racks and a printer and a shipping area.

You're going to need bubble mailers because you're now a full shipping facility too. Hangers, a desk, a computer, iPads. Because the app, it was only Apple. Going to home goods and be like, look at this sign and says she believed she did. I'm going to get that. Ridiculous now, but at the time it was exciting empowering she was becoming her very own she-e-o that's a real word they use she-e-o and after her agonizing six week wait one day the phone rings getting that call and seeing it and being like oh my

god what do I do and my husband's like answer it and I answer it I pick, what do I do? And my husband's like, answer it. And I answer it, I pick the package, I give La Chey all my info, and she's like, welcome to Lula Rowe. Welcome to Lula Rowe. After much investigation, dreaming, pleading with her husband, putting money on a credit card, setting up an office for product, she was ready to put that office, that office, that office, that office, that office, that office, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, and that, and that, and a half for product, she was ready to put that office to work.

She was on the road to making millions. But first... My mom and all of our friends were like, we're going to go camping, and I knew my inventory was coming, and I was like, this might be my last, quote unquote, vacation before it gets really busy. Knowing that her kit was set to arrive any day, Roberta heads to the mountains,

but their campsite had no cell service. Which is ideal for a digital detox when the goal is to unplug. But less ideal when you're expecting a box full of stretchy pants that proclaimed to hold the key to the universe. And so every day I would drive to this one spot to check my email and be like, nope, haven't gotten it yet. I remember driving up to the top of this hill and getting it and freaking out and coming back down and being like, I gotta go. I don't even know like why I did that, but I did. Leaving vacation early to go open up boxes of polyester.

But turns out this box of schnazi street to lounge wear was holding something else. So I open up these boxes and they start feeling really lightheaded and sick and I'm like cold sweats and I was like throwing up. I'm thinking I ate bad camp food. But if she learned later it was likely something else because I'm not the only person that experienced that when opening up their luro I think I got mold poisoning. Mold poisoning from leggings? Yep. Oh and don't worry Tyler. There is so much more on this later.

But as soon as Roberto recovered, she threw a big home launch party and she invited all of her friends. Like it was insane. I was selling out of things. It was crazy. And then anything that didn't sell in my in-home party, the next day I put it online and that was my online launch. I made. . Like like like like like like like like like like like like like like like like like like like like like like like like like like like like like like like like like like like like like like like like like like like like like like like like like like like like like. I was like. I was like. th. th. th. th. I was like. I was like. th. th. I th. I was like. th. th. I was th. I was th. I th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to. to. the. the. the. the. the. the. the. the. the. the. the. the. the. the. th. to. to. to. to. to. to. to. to. to. to. to. the. the. the. the. the. the. the. the. to. to. the party the next day I put it online and that was my online launch. I made like $6,000 in one night. Which was amazing she was already able to pay back the $5,000 she invested, right? It did like $2,000 on the credit card. Everything else went back into buying more inventory because you can't sell it if you don't have it. Of which she was having no problem doing. It was just so easy to sell in a a the the the the the the the the th. th. th. th. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, tho, that thi, thi, thi, that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that, that, that, that, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, the, theeeeee. theeeeeean, thean, thea. thea. thea. thea. thea. thea. thea easy to sell. In the beginning, I could open up a box and I could sell 90% of that box within 24 hours. Not a problem.

And it's true. People were possessed by these leggings. I know I am. The exclusivity factor worked magic. Every print was one of a kind, and Roberta had people. And Roberta had people that were like, I just need that. I'll pay double triple. I'll give you $100 for that. I just need those pants. I need those squirrels. I need those squirrels. I need those clowns. I need those puzzle pieces. I need those whatever's humpty

dumties. It's like playing the carnival a name for herself in the Lula Rowe world. I'm the kind of person that like if I want to be at the top of something, I'm going to surround myself with the people at the top. So I really wanted to get in good with Deane and home office. At its peak in 2017, Lula Rowe had hundreds of employees, a large corporate office and 80,000 independent distributors, mostly women. And this made the former struggling single mom Deanne a millionaire and a pseudo celebrity. She relished her role in the company. She would create videos, preach her Lulao religion on stage, all while wearing multiple layers of Lula Roe. In fact, she was known among Lulao circles as, quote, the layered one, because for retailers,

it was demanded that you wear multiple layers of Lula Roe, which is why, Liz, I got you. No, I didn't get you another one. How's your leggings feeling? They still... The waist isn't working for me? Because? The top part of the waist is cutting into me, whereas the second bottom part of the waist isn't.

Well, why is that, Liz? Why is your waist so big? Can you just... They're going to see on the Instagram? Because I'm pregnant, okay. I'm pregnant. Okay. I'm pregnant.

I'm pregnant. Liz. thi. thi. . . . Posted on every single movement that happens from here on out. Anyways, so back to Roberta.

Deanne, she was the consummate pitcher of rags to riches. She was the vision of what these women could ultimately become. Deanne was overly loving and overly affectionate and love bombing all the time. You're so amazing, you're so beautiful. Look how cute you are. You're such a little firecracker, you're my rock star. Love bombing, love bombing, love bombing. She was like my second mom and I never in a million years would think that she would ever do anything to hurt any of us intentionally. And for Roberta, the money kept it rolling in. So I had left the salon, it felt like I was a millionaire. And so I just the the the thua thua the thua thua thi thi thi thuuuu. thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi to thi. to to to to to to to to to to be to be thi. to be to be to be to be to be to be to be to be to be to be to be to be to be to be to be to be to be to be to be to be to be to be to be to be to be to be to be to be to be to be to be to be to be to be to be to be to be to be to be to be toldld. told. told. told. told. thr. thro. throom, toe. tolu. the thoom, love. toe. toe. toe. toe. toe. Love b. Love boboombomb millionaire. And so I just continued to do what I was told because it was working.

But the hobby still wasn't on board. Because he was like, it takes you away. Like, this is a lot. And I was like, I know, but I'm doing everything right now. Eventually Lulao will take over. So he goes, okay, fine. And then I remember going to to to to to to to to to to the the to the the the to the the the to the person and being like, my husband doesn't want to be involved. And she looked at me blank and she goes, maybe you just need a new husband then. Get a Lula Roe husband.

It would be easier to find a husband who's just supportive of Lularo. I mean, obviously I didn't do that, but there was a thought in my head. Yet another huge cult tactic, isolate the followers from any of their loved ones that aren't in. But he wasn't out for long. Roberta eventually persuaded her husband to attend a Lula Roe event. Once he got love bombed, he was like, oh my god, we have to tell everybody about Lularo. I even remember there was this sweater thing that came out called the Mimi.

It was like this horrible, heavy shawl. ridiculous. And he he he he he he he he he th th th th th th th th th th th th thus thus thus thus thus thus thus thus thus thus thus thus thus, thus, thus, thus, thus, thus, thus, thus, thus, th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. thus, th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. ttau, ttau, ttau, ttau. ttau. ttau. ttau. ttau. ttau. I. I ttau. I ttau. I ttau. I'm, toge. I'm, toge. I'm, toge. I'm toge. And he goes, use my credit card and buy as many as you can. We can do this. And I did. We sold every single one of those Mimi's. And she kept climbing the ranks and bringing in new people. At the peak I had 75 women underneath me. Sounds like one of your weekends in college, Liz. Ooh, boom, sex jokes.

It's a good one, isn't it? That's a good one, Tyler. No, but actually, I really did do something in college with all my best friends called a naked steamroll. You know, I'm not going to let that just sit hanging, please. My friends would be in bed and I would surprise them naked, I'd run in their bed and I just steamroll them naked and they'd be like, get off of me! College. College.

But unlike typical cults where you actively have to recruit, Roberta, she had a different experience. I never recruited one single person. Everybody came to me and said, I want to do this and I want to be on your team. And anybody that would reach out to th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. I, th. I, th. I, th. I, th. th. th. I, th. th. th. the, I, I, I, I'd, I, I, the, I'd, I'd, I'd, I'd, I'd, I'd, I'd, I'd, I'd, I, I'd, I, I, I. C. C. C. C. C. C. C. C. C. C. C. C. C. C. C. C. C. C. C. C. I. I. I. I. I. I. I. I. I. I. I. I. I. I. I. I. I. I. I. I. I. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. to, to. to. to. to. to. to. I'm, t. I'm, to. I'm, tode. I'm, to. I'm to. to. to would put them under me because they were building me to rank, because once I hit my rank, my upline above me ranked up, and then her upline above her ranked to the top. We call it stacking. It happens in all MLMs. U, line and rank are common terms in MLMs, which it's very culty to have

your own lingo. If it's not clear by now, MLMs are the legal loophole jargon for pyramid scheme. And the reason it's a pyramid is that you are directly connected to the person who brought you in, aka your upline, as they are above you in the pyramid. We'll give you a little bit more on pyramid schemes later, but this particular pyramid goes a little bit. All MLMs are different, but in Lularo, with no one underneath you you're just just a the the their a their a their a their, their, their, their, their, their, th, th, th, th, th, th, their, th, th, th, th, th, thiiolome, thiolomea, thiolome, thi, thiomperam, thiomperam, their piomperam, their pi, their pi, th. th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, is is is pi, is pi, is pi, is pi, is pi, is pi, is pi, is pi, is pi, is a pi, is a pi, is a pi, is a p. is a p. th, is a p. thi, is a peree, is a piolomea, is a piome, is a piome.e. thia.ea.ea. theiri.e.e.e.e.e.e.e. P.e.e. P. m. And, with no one underneath you, you're just like a fashion retailer. At least one person underneath you, you're a sponsor. When you have at least 10 people underneath you, but three of them have to be personally sponsored by you. The other seven can be anywhere. When you have 10, you become a trainer, that's what I was.

To hit coach, which is the next rank, is three trainers on three separate separate. So you couldn't have a trainer that had a trainer underneath her. That wouldn't count us two. You'd have to have three separate women on like their own pyramids, basically as trainers on three separate lines on three separate lines. And that's to hit coach. And then mentor. That's the highest lines with three trainers and three separate lines with three coaches. Did you catch that?

I'm pressing the back 30-second button. To hear it one more time. Yeah, because I really, I did not catch all of that. There's just recruitment ranks. It's like any colt and any rank, it's the total hierarchy. But it was because of her team, the people in her downline, that she started to get monthly bonuses. So not from the sales. Nope.

The extra money, which was the real money, has nothing to do with the selling of the actual product. And it's literally from the people underneath you. The biggest bonus I ever got, I think was like 350 bucks. That's the reason leggings cost $25, right? Because $3 of that goes into my bonus. So the bonus checks, you'd have to qualify. My whole entire team, we had to sell $1,750 pieces a month. But most MLMs, there is no distinction between you personally buying it and you

personally selling it. So a lot of times you'd be like, hey, just letting you know there's five days until the end of the month and you haven't qualified yet. I don't want you to miss that on that bonus check. You're gonna get a $1,000 bonus, but you're $300 away from getting it. And people are like, you're right. Okay, I'll spend $300 to get a thi, $1. I, $1. I. I. I. I. I. I. I. I. I. I. I. I. I. I. I. I. I. I. I. I. I. I. I'm $1. I. I'm $1. I'm to get to get to get to get to get to get to get to get to get to get to get to get to miss. to miss. to miss. to miss. to miss. to miss. to miss. to miss. to miss. to miss. to miss. to miss. to miss. to miss. to miss. to miss. to miss. to miss. to miss. to miss. to miss. to miss. that. that bonus. that bonus. that bonus. that bonus. that bonus. th. th. thi. thi. thi. that bonus. that bonus. that bonus. to get. to. that. that. to. to. that. that. to. to. that. to. to. to. to. to. to. to. to. to. to. to now you've got a garage full of leggings. And we call that garage qualified in MLM, but then also the product started becoming bad.

The material was so thin, they would just rip. They would buy the cheapest, most discounted, out of season fabrics, because these women are gonna buy it anyway, side unseen. I had a woman who was a teacher, and she bought a pair of leggings from me. and she th. And she the, and she, and she, and she, and the, and the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, the, the, the, the, the, the, th. And, th. And, th. And, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th. And, th. And, th. And, th. And, th. And, th. And, the, the, the, the, the, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi. thi. thea. thi. thi. thea, thi, thi, thi pair of leggings from me and she was wearing them at school and she sent me a message. Oh my God, Roberta, I literally put these on today for the first time and she sent me a picture. It had literally ripped in a straight line right under her butt cheek. An hour later she's like, now the other one is doing it.

She's like, I'm a school teacher and my asses hanging out ofing leggings. Then there was other stuff that came soaking wet, not just damp, soaking wet. I would get boxes that smelled like literal death. I've called it so many different things. Poop in a wet bathing suit, dead fart leggings. Death and chlorine is what it smelled like farts. I was like, why does the studio smell like farts, Liz? Women don't flatulate Tyler. Phrr-prrr. Excuse me!

Really? You are seven years old. Wait, I got something better. No. I do. She's got a fart out. Phrush. Hi quality programming here, folks. Get back to the fucking story.

Please. So Roberta, well, she was curious as well about the fart smell. So she asks Lula Rowe about it. When they're like, put them in the freezer, wash them and sell them at a discount. You worrying about why your leggings stink is not an income-producing activity. You need to set it aside and focus on your business. You're like, okay, you're right, I'm so sorry. I should be photographing pants.

Thank you. I was making money, but there were other things that didn't make sense. As a company, Lula Rowe had grown very fast, some say too fast, and they weren't really cut out for that kind of growth. To say the least the least these executives had actual business degrees, and Deann and Mark had placed their inexperienced children in important leadership positions. Nepotism, nepotism, nepotism, say that three times. You couldn't even pull it off. I couldn't.

Nepotism, nepotism, nepotism. and it was apparent to many of the distributors. So Roberta would ask questions, sometimes in an online forum. I would ask about the moldy stuff, why are there bugs in the bag? So for me to be having questions is very bad for the colt. I was a very heavy load-bearing brick in this pyramid. And then my upline reaches out to me and she was like, hey, I just want to let you know that I have an extra cruise ticket. A cruise ticket to the Bahamas. Now normally this is a cruise for those who qualify, meaning you sell a lot of shitty leggings.

But Roberta didn't actually qualify that month. Hmm. Suspect. It was a love bomb cruise. I make sure she brings her husband because he asks a lot of questions too. Some MLMs will do an all-expense paid trip, and some don't. Lularo just gives you the room and says, Hope you can afford to get there. It's in Florida. The free trip probably cost me three grand. There was events every day. Hey, you know, see us at 8 o'clock in the main hall to learn about blah blah blah.

I was like, I ain't doing that on vacation. The vibe on the boat became way too much for Roberta, with everyone walking around, wearing the same dumb clothes, the over-adorning followers, revering Mark and Deane and her entire family. The fauning over the executives, the large crowds cheering and chanting and the Lula Roe name and colors plastered everywhere. Barf. And we were like, is this culty? She's like, this is weird.

The cruise was the first, like, what the fuck is happening? And like most cults, as they grow and evolve, the leader becomes more and more unavailable to her peoples. They used to like go around town and they'd spend the whole day in San Diego at this training and you could stay late and you could get to know them and it was awesome. But the last couple times that I interacted with Dian, she was a completely different person. They would fly in on their private jet, do their little hour-long speech and then get on the jet and At some of these Lula Roe events, you could get a brief moment with Deanne. At a cheesy fucking photo booth. You could get your photos taken with Deanne.

I said, is this not a business training? This is so far away from what we originally were two years ago. Like, why is there a celebrity meet-and-great? For someone who's not even a celebrity. And the line was insane to get a picture with Deanne. She's not the Messiah. She's just a regular lady. That's a little colty. Remember how Roberta felt about Deanne when she first started?

I felt like a personal connection to Deanne. And I never in a million years would think that she would ever do anything to hurt any of us, intentionally. But the whole thing was intentional. It was a scam from the beginning. 99 lose. Only 1% succeed. Statistically. That is a genuine stat. According to research done by the late Dr. John Taylor at the Federal Trade Commission,

quote, the vast majority of commissions paid by MLM companies go to a tiny percentage of tops, TOPO-P-P-S. That's Top of the Pyramid Promoters. This comes at the expense of a revolving door of recruits, 99% of whom lose money. So if only 1% can succeed, statistically, and that is the only way that this works is when one percent succeeds, then 99 has to fail. That's gambling. Here's an odd statistic though.

Gambling has a 95% loss rate. MLMs have a 99.7% of people lose. And that's not just money, right? That's we're talking about the opportunity costs, right? Anything that you're not doing because you're doing this. Right. You're not getting an $18 an hour job because you're shilling it works in your living room. Okay, so you may be asking if the people selling these products weren't making money, but the company was making billions, well then where did all that money go? Well, if this podcast has taught you guys anything? Other than fart jokes. It's that the money goes to the leaders.

Yes, Mark and Deanne lived lavishly, with a jet, a massive California home, a $7 million ranch in Wyoming. And Mark, well, he bought a slew of sports cars worth millions. Including not one, but two, custom-made Koneg-Syg ghosts a price tag of over $2 million each, one of which recently set the world land speed record of 277.9 miles per hour. And after the record fell, Mark was quoted as saying, it feels like winning the Olympics. You are the gold medal winner for that day. Well, you're a gold medal loser for every other day so have your day Mark. Here's another fun statistic 90 90% of product that is sold from an MLM remains in the MLM between consultants sales to buy

ranks sales to help each other out. How is that a profitable business model? It's very obviously not a business. It's a pyramid scheme. Defined as a form of investment in which each paying participant recruits to further participants, with returns being given to early participants using money contributed by later ones. Yep, it's similar in fact to a Ponzi scheme, which is named after Charles Ponzi, an Italian-American businessman in the 1920s who was taking money from investors with a promise of a high return, but paying earlier investors using the investments from later investors. His scheme ran for about a year before it collapsed, costing investors $20 million.

That's a cool $258 million in today's currency. But that's nothing, compared to Bernie Madoff, who was arrested in 2008 for running a Ponzi scheme that cost investors an estimated $65 billion. Wow. Yeah. But Madoff and Ponzi were supposedly selling stocks. Roberta was selling Mimies and moldy, wet, ass-ripped leggings. But the money-making aspect is similar. And this is where the pyramid aspect comes and the bouti-in-o-o-o-o-o-o-up-up-up-up-up-up-up-up-up-up-up-o-up-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-ozy-o-s tho-s thozy-msee-msee-msee-msee-mp-mp-ozy-ozy-s th-s th-n. th-n. th-n. th-n. th-n. th-n. to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to-s to-s to-s to-s to-n. to-ne. to-n'-n'-n'-n'-n'-n'-n'-n'-eauu.2.2eau.2eau.2eauuuucoease-ease-ease-ease-ease-ease-nease-spped leggings. But the money-making aspect is similar.

And this is where the pyramid aspect comes, and the boutique kept itself afloat. You know, sell $5,000 and I'd buy $5,000 worth of stuff. It was like $78,000 I had bought and I had sold like $83,000. And that doesn't include any expenses, so I made nothing. All of my money came from my bonuses. Right. From the pyramid scheme. But Roberta, she's one of the lucky ones. She got in relatively early. Placed her proverbial brick near the top of the pyramid. And by hustling and sheer gumption, she actually made a profit. I probably made like $60,000. 20 months, something like that,

like $40,000 a year, which is less than I was making at the salon. But a vast majority of those who sold Lula Rowe don't come close to that figure. And how do we know that? Because their 2020 income disclosure is on their website. It's required due to a pending lawsuit against them filed by the state of Washington, which accuses Lula Roe of being, a pyramid, thi, thi, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thiolome, thi, tho, tho, tho, tho, tho, tho, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, th filed by the state of Washington, which accuses Lula Rowe of being a what? A pyramid scheme. And looking through their numbers, it's not good.

Yeah, according to the chart, over 85% of distributors did not receive any money from the leadership compensation plan. And the scant few individuals that did see revenue only averaged $8,567 per year. A pittance! Yeah, could you imagine going to work for a company and on their website, it actually says that you have an 85% chance of making nothing. And a 19% chance of losing money. Astounding. So, Roberta had given years of her life to selling Deanne and Mark's clothing.

And as we mentioned, she was one of the lucky ones in Lula Rowe, or in Mlm's in general. So, Roberta had given years of her life to selling Deanne and Mark's clothing. And as we mentioned, she was one of the lucky ones in Lula Rowe, or in MLMs in general. Because she was earning money. But it came at a cost. And I was consumed, even 11 o'clock at night. Do you have any T.C. leggings? Do you have any large carlies?

I was irritable all the time. I was upset, stressed, angry, always sleep deprived. Too much stuff to do, not enough time to do it. I remember in the beginning, I'd get the box, I could not wait. At the end, I would have stacks of boxes sitting in the entryway of the house. They'd sit for days. Toward the end, the boxes were crap. I said I could sell 90% within 24 hours. The opposite was true toward the end. I could sell 10% maybe. They would say, your inventory isn't stale, you are. Why aren't you getting more customers?

My children were like, mom, can we please go swimming? It's 95 degrees outside and we're so hot. I'd be like, I've got a photograph 50 more things, and then weto go swimming. Watching my husband be like, is this worth it? My mental health is off the rails. I couldn't even look myself in the mirror because I knew that I had to lie and do horrible deceitful tactics to survive.

But despite all this, she stayed hustling. I didn't want to admit that there was a failure within this company that I had fought so hard to be a part of, and I didn't want to admit that I was wrong. I wasn't ready. I remember sitting down and being like, I just need a break. I'm going to watch me some Leah Remney. Scientology aftermath had just come back on and I sat down and it was like a survivor episode This is not the life that I want to live. I Wanted to end my life Some people it takes a year some people it takes ten years of just peeling that onion of how you were manipulated and made to think.

Thank you, Leah, for saving my life. It was a survivor episode. And every single person that was talking, I had an example. I was like, Lulao did that to me too. And I remember looking at my husband, and he's like, Lulao did that to me too. And I remember looking at my husband and he's like, why are you crying? And I was like, I'm in a cult. I'm in a cult.

I'm experiencing cult tactics, cult behavior, cult indoctrination, cult abuses. And I said, I have to get out now. So the next day she calls the San Diego lady who initially got her in. We had like a 45 minute conversation and I remember crying and I was like, I can't do this. It's changing who I am and it's not worth it. The woman heard her concerns, but then responded with a reminder from her past. Well, Roberta, I sat there with you in that inspired tour and we held hands and we told each other our wys.

And you cried and you said you were doing this for your kids. I don't understand why you would leave if you really want this for your kids. So they go after your why. The same thing that you used to get in, and it's very manipulative. And then as soon as I got home, I was like, dear everyone, I am done. The end, sent. She sent this message to her group via Facebook

that included both her uplines and her downlines. I could feel the tingles. I had about 15 minutes of freedom before the text messages started rolling in, and the voicemails, and thethat how, I didn't know you were leaving. Oh my God, why? Is there something I could do? But of course, it didn't take long for them to shun her. Ugh, cults.

If you leave, Dian tells people to block you. That comes straight from Dian. Oh, you don't have money? We can help you make money. Oh, you don't have any friends? You're gonna have a team full of sisters. But the second you leave. Bye-bye, sisters. Block. Oh my god, she's such a bitch.

Of course she's a failure. Ha-ha. It's incredibly culte. Now, Roberta had moments to her family. She could take her kids swimming. And without all the constraints of taking pictures of pants and shipping shawl, she had the time to read blogs about MLMs and to talk to others who had left theirs. And she learned that Lularo was just a pebble in a very large and scummy pond. Lularo was the baby MLM cult. And so was Amway and so was Arbun. And Shakeley works, and so was Modair, and so was all of them. And Shakeley, and Miranda, and Otera and Lioness, and Vaisalus. And Ponzi.

You made that up. Yep, but it would be the most fitting. It would. It's like that kid in the neighborhood who's trick-or-treating at your house, and then he's going into your driveway and he's changing Galvez and he's going and ringing the doorbell again. It's the same. The only thing that changes are the company's names, the victims, and the fucking shit they're selling. But Roberta did miss the community she found while in Lula Roe. So she joined another group.

It's an anti-Lularo group. We all have this trauma bond of like, we all thought this was great, we all got fucked. They share experiences and commiserate about the important questions of life, like, did anybody else get stinky, liking hundreds of comments? Oh, I had this one that smelled like death. It was so bad, I just had to throw them away. Anybody get wet ones? Oh my god, I got wet ones. I got wet ones. I got a whole box full of wet ones one time. One wise sage even had the answer to the age

old questions of why were the leggings wet? She goes, I went to the Lularo head office to pick up something and there's all these metal containers with blue tarps over them. She's like and I thought it was really weird so who was sitting outside in California. It's the desert and the desert gets very cold at night and we wake up to do on everything and that do just soaked into those pants for days and days and days and days. And then another woman had the key to the other plaguing riddle. She goes but I know why your stuff might smell like dead rats. It used to be my job and my boyfriend's job in the morning to go out to those big metal cages. I have the tarp on top because the holes in the cages or a couple inches square, right?

She's like we would have to pull out all the dead rats and possums that would have gotten inside that night when it's cold that couldn't get out and died. And at this point, I'm like, okay, of course you pulled dead rats out of the leggings. Of course you did. That makes so much sense. We get stories like that all the time. But mostly, these individuals keep their stories within XMLM or groups. There's not a lot of people in MLMs that are willing to speak out.

One, they're like, I'm never going to tell anybody that that that I to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to think they're stupid. They're like, I'm never gonna tell anybody that I was scammed. We have to make it okay to say I was hurt and not come back with, well, you were stupid and you deserved it. We have to stop shaming victims, because that's not okay. Of course I made a stupid decision with bad information, but there's nobody in this world that hasn't made a bad decision with bad information. If you're a victim of anything, you're a victim. The lack of compassion and empathy in the anti-MLM community was shocking to me. It was devastating.

It makes you not want to speak out. And this is a problem with any cultic or abusive behavior, people not wanting to speak out, admit they were taken advantage of. And same is true for victims victims the victims the victims the victims the victims the victims victims victims victims victims victims victims victims victims victims victims victims victims victims victims for victims victims victims victims for victims victims for victims victims victims the victims to to victims victims to victims the victims to victims the victims to victims to victims the victims to victims th victims to th victims to their victims to to to to to their their their to their to their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their, their, their, their, their, their were taking advantage of. And same is true for victims of sexual abuse. The way rapists and sex predators continue to get away with their behavior is to instill fear in their victims. Sadly, many of the threats are financially based, and unfortunately the predators often have the money to keep their victims silenced.

Yeah, Harvey, we're talking to you. So, just just just just just just just just just just just just just just just just just, Harvey, th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, the the thi, thi, the thi, the thi, to to to the thi, thi, to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to their, their their their their their their their their their, their their, their their their, they... the. the the. the. the the thei.. the the the. thei. theei. thei.. toe. toe. toe.. th talking to you. So, just how does the cycle end? We don't exactly know, but we think it starts with one brave individual at a time. Willing to risk retribution, paving the way for others to feel emboldened to do the same. And when you don't speak out and share your experiences, no one can learn from your mistakes. And MLMs survive that way. And MLMs look like a business, and a business can't be a cult. I'm selling something, Roberta, and then I'm making money when I sell it. That's not a cult.

I'm like, sure, cool, yeah, your cult sells stuff. Look, we're fine with people starting businesses and we're fine with business founders making millions of dollars for generating a wanted service or product and distributing it in a proper manner. But what burns my ass is when you don't pay your employees living wages and MLMs do this. They pray upon the vulnerability, the labor and the dreams of wannabe entrepreneurs who toil for no wages to sell their shitty product all on the false promise of easy money and independence. And people just keep chasing the dream, listening to tales of the large revenue

being made by the top 1% and hoping that they too can get there. And it's tiring. And that's why Roberta now has a mission. And she's not hawking horrific leggings leggings but she's doling out knowledge. I will never stop telling people that this is a fucking cult and I will make it my life's work to get out as many people from Lularo as possible. So she started a podcast called Life After MLM. It's informative and helps people. I have a lot of people that are MLMs that listen. I know they listen because they email me later when they leave. They say. I. I. I. I. I. I. I they say. I they say. I they say. I they say. I they say. I they say. I they say. I they say. I they say. I they say. I they they they they they they they they their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their. I their. I their. I their. I their. I their. I their. I their. I their. I their. I their. I their. I their. I their their their helps people. I have a lot of people that are MLMs that listen.

I know they listen because they email me later when they leave. They say, I listen to your podcast for six months. And in the beginning I hated your guts. I thought you were so stupid and you're so bitter. And then you talked about my MLM and I was like, oh my God, and now I love you and you saved my life and I'm out of my M-LM now because of your podcast. I wish I found you a year ago because now I'm $40,000 in debt and I have a garage full of lipstick. And they're going, oh my god, it is a cold. I wasn't a cult. How did I get in a cult? Very slowly is how. Very slowly. Exactly the same way everyone gets manipulated into cult.

And Roberta, she took that same passion for selling and community, and she now uses it to better the lives of victims and to keep people from jumping back into this world of MLMs. It feels like a calling. It feels like I had to join Lularo and go through all of that so that I could help others not have to do that. And today, she's tha tha tha tha thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi the same thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi the sa the the the same the. thoom thoe. thoe. the same the same thoe. thoes the same the same the same thoes the same thoes thoes thoes thoe. thoe. thoe. thoe. thoe. the. the the. the. the the the the the the. the the. the the. the the the the toe. toe. toea. toea. toea. toea. toea. toeauuooooooooooooooooooooooe. toe. help others not have to do that. And today she's kicking names and taking ass. She's actually doing fantastic today. To be able to look myself in the mirror

and be proud of who I am and to love myself, I wasn't there four years ago when I left Blue Row. Roberta was an absolute pleasure to have on the show. Yeah, she was a perfect guest to answer many of the questions we get are MLM's cults. Well, folks, I think you now have your answer. I reached out to her after seeing the Lula Rich Doc on Amazon because I distinctly remember she was the only person in the series to verbalize, this is a fucking cult or something to that effect. She may not have dropped the F bum. But after she said that I was like, her. That's who I want to be on our show. And she just so happened to be able to join in studio for the interview. It was all meant to be. And if you want to hear more about Roberta and

other crazy MLMs, you should totally check out Roberta's podcast Life After MLM. There is a link in the show notes. There is also a link to our Instagram so you can see our fantastic photos of Liz and I in this sexy leggings. We loved this episode and we hope that it helps people who are considering an MLM life. Just don't. Next week, we'll be back with another great story. Hey everybody, consider helping us. Yes, help us, help you, helping you, helping you, you get it.

Yeah, every contribution helps us. Help you, helping us. Who are we helping?, you get it. Yeah, every contribution helps us. Help you, helping us. Who are we helping? I forgot. I've lost it. Just go to our website, guys. Was I and acoldt. to come and you'll get more information there.

Was Ina Coult's a. the story produced and written by this guy. Tyler's Secklesythem. And Liz Ayacuzzi, that's Ayacuzzi with two z's, because she puts me to sleep. Not in these leggings, I don't. Nice. I keep everyone awake. Executive producer is Maya Cole Howard. Supervising producer is Ari Basile. Audio editor and engineer is Chandler Mays.

Publicist is Lauren Dutton Breen. And our studio is Clay. Welcome to the team, Clay, Clay, Clay, Clay, Clay, Clay, the the th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, tho, tho, thu, thu, thu- thu- th. to, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, I I I I I to, I to, I I to, I to, to to to to, to to to to to to to to to to thu. to thu. thu. to ty. ty. ty. ty. ty. ty. thea. thea, thea, to to tooooooooooooozy, Hillenburg. Welcome to the team, Clay. And our fan of the week is Kelly Branch from Missouri, who said on Twitter that our podcast is a good disconnect from the education world. Yep, she's a teacher. Thank you, Kelly Branch. And Kelly, if you want my leggings, DMEM me, I'll give them them to you. Just don't wear them to school because they will rip and show and show the the their they their they'll their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their. their their their their their. their. to too. too. too. too. too. too. to to to to to to to to to their their their their their their their their their to their to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to too. too. too. te. te. te. te. te. te. te. te. te. te. te. te. te. te. to. toe. toe. to. to because they will rip and show your ass. And then you'll be the coolest teacher around. All right, let's never take these off again. Thank you. Don't spare my life. Crucify me.