Was I In A Cult? - Mormon…More Women PT 2: "I do… I do… I don’t."

Episode Date: September 8, 2021

Faced with the fear of an impending apocalypse, Joanne and her husband move to a small Utah town to live "Mormonism on steroids", which means wearing long underwear, communicating with the dead, prophetic visions, odd temple rituals, cookies with Jesus, and the law of celestial marriage (i.e. polygamy). If you or someone you know has been in a cult and want to share your story, contact us at [e-mail]. We'd love to hear from you. Link to Joanne's Book, "It's Not About Sex My Ass: Confessions of an Ex-Mormon Ex-Polygamist Ex-Wife": https://www.amazon.com/Its-Not-About-Sex-Ex-Polygamist-ebook/dp/B008Q4D6E4 Please support Was I In A Cult? Through Patreon

This episode contains sexual references, strong language, and comical justifications for marrying multiple teenagers. Enjoy. Welcome to episode 2 of Was I an occult? I'm your host, Tyler Miesom. And I'm also your host, Liz Ayacuzzi. Listeners, we suggest you listen to episode one first, as this is part two of Joanne Hink's story. It's always wise to start with the first movie. You can't really just watch Breakin' 2, electric boogaloo, unless you first watch Breakin.

You're aging yourself, Tyler. It's a timeless classic Liz. Okay, what reference would you use? Um, you can't watch when nature calls without first watching pet detective. You kind of can actually, right? But if you don't listen to episode one first, you won't know how Joanne Hanks went from being happily married woman with three kids to a now sister wife. Right. And just to remind you, Joanne was part of the Utah-based TLC group and had just watched her husband, Jeff, marry another woman. A teenager, lest we forget.

I have a feeling you won't let us forget that days. And after the reception, Jeff and her young bride went off to the honeymoon. Leaving Joanne all alone. All that evening and night and the next morning, all I could think about was them having sex. So a few days later they came back from the honeymoon and Judith moves in. One big happy family. It was awkward at first. She didn't know either of us very well. My children told me later on that they thought Judith was just another kid in the family.

Because she was a kid? Yeah, smart children. Because she was young. She would play with them a lot. There were a fair amount of arguments the first few months because I felt like I was doing all the housework and the laundry and the cooking and she was having all the fun. As time went on, we became friends. She and I would decorate the house, we'd make birthday cakes for the kids, we'd watch movies together. We became good friends. And life was pretty normal.

Yeah, normal except after Judith and Joanne were done watching movies together, Judith would go have sex with Joanne's husband. Yep, but as is the case with most polygamous marriages, the question is where they would be having sex. And he's not talking about on the countertop. Cold, hard, Ninoleum. I guess you don't really need to spice it up when it's already spicy. I would say you probably would have to. I've talked to polygamous men, and they say that it's very exhausting, because while one

woman only gets sex once a week, he has to basically do it every single night. So Viagra is a very common occurrence in polygamous communities. Wow. So don't start a polygamous family without a prescription. I guess it's like... Talk to your doctor about a polygamous family. See if it's right for you. Do you think the women talk about it? Possibly. I mean do you talk about it with your friends? Yeah but I'm like I'm not having sex with my friend's husband. I... Yes. All right we are going off on a tangent. I love it. Let's go back to Joanne. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to the to to to to the the to to to the to to to to to to to to to to the to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the th th theiiii. the the the th th the theoooooo. th th theooooo. I. I th th off on a tangent. Let's go back to Joanne. Okay.

We decided that Jeff would have his own room. So one night I was upstairs getting ready for bed and I heard them having sex. And I heard him screaming. And I heard him screaming. It was awful because I could picture And I heard him screaming. It was awful because I could picture them doing it. So I immediately stomped on the floor real hard.

We changed sleeping arrangements after that. We went back to him coming to our rooms, which were on different ends of the house. So what's the point of polygamy other than multiple fuck buddies? I mean, sex partners. Well, Liz, the whole idea of polygamy is. These men need to build their kingdoms, and the way they can do that is taking multiple wives and having lots of children with all their wives. Their teenage wives.

God bless the kingdom. Amen. We did our work for the dead, which is something that the LDS church did. They would have people be baptized for the dead person. Wait, hold up. They'd baptize dead people. Not really, Liz.

So Mormons believe that everyone must be baptized a Mormon in order to get into heaven. So they would baptize non-Mormans that were already dead? Don't worry. Joseph had it all figured out. He called it baptism for the dead, which is essentially that someone here on earth does proxy baptisms in the name of someone who is deceased. So we could baptize Alex Trebek. I mean, I would hate for him to knock it into heaven. We could Liz.

And then Alex would get the opportunity to accept or reject the message in the next life. I'll take bullshit for 300. You know, baptism for the dead is a very important part of Mormon belief, and the Mantai group was no different. They would get names of people of to to to to to to to to to to to to to the the the to the the the the for the dead is a very important part of Mormon belief, and the Mantai group was no different. They would get names of people who have died. We decided that we needed to find out whether these people wanted their work done. So Jim's wife Elaine, she was, for lack of a better word, she was the medium. We'd all get in our robes and someone would get to the altar and they'd call this person from across the veil,

is Abraham Lincoln here. There'd be a pause. And Elaine would kind of take the voice of that particular person. Yes, I'm here. Then all of us would be like, oh my gosh, Abraham Lincoln's in the room with us. And we'd all get choked up and just be amazed. And then they would say, I'm so grateful for what you're doing. You're such important people. And then we'd say goodbye and close the prayer.

Get on to the next person. And these got really popular. But it wasn't enough to simply communicate with those famous people. Eventually, Prophet Jim had a revelation that all the members of the TLC actually were those famous people in the past life. Essentially reincarnation, but they called it, the members of the TLC actually were those famous people in the past life, essentially reincarnation, but they called it the Law of Multiple Moral Probations. Judith was into royalty, historical royalty, so she decided she wanted to call up Queen Elizabeth the first.

Queen Elizabeth, are you here? They'd sit there for a minute and then Elaine would say, is Judith Queen Elizabeth? Yes. And everybody would just get all choked up and find out that Judith's, one of her early probation, she was Queen Elizabeth. And now she's born back again to this little family and ends up in Manti. Eventually it wasn't enough to just have one person as you reincarnate.

Jim revealed that those famous people also had past lives. So, in theory, you could be the reincarnation of Noah and Aristotle and Mark Twain and Thomas Edison. Or Bernie Mac. I mean, that's how I would be. Good choice, Liz. Rest in peace, funny man. Everybody was fighting for all the best names because they wanted to be the most important people in history. By the time I got around to doing it, the only people famous that were left were daughters of famous men. I was one of those daughters of Martin Luther.

I researched Benjohn Franklin and found out that he had some daughters, and I felt impressed that I was one of those daughters. All the women started researching the wives of Joseph Smith and for some reason I felt impressed by this one particular woman, Mary Elizabeth Rollins Lightner. So we had a prayer session and found out that yes in my previous probation that's who I had been. Okay listen remember when I said that Joseph Smith had 37 wives? How could I forget? Well...

It's still... Still not Norman music? You'd make a lousy wife 13, Liz. Damn it! Okay, so, 1842, Navu Illinois. One fine evening, the prophet Joseph, went a call into a young woman's house and told this young woman who was already married, that an angel had appeared to him previously and said that if Joseph didn't marry this girl, the angel would cut his head off with a flaming sword. Well, with a proposal like that, how could one say no?

Which she didn't? Right. She married him. He performed the ceremony himself. And I'm guessing they consummated the marriage right then th th th th th th th th th right right right right right right right marriage. th right marriage th right marriage th. the marriage the marriage th. thi marriage thi marriage the marriage thi marriage thi marriage the marriage the marriage thi marriage the marriage the marriage the marriage the marriage the marriage th. thi marriage thi woom marriage the marriage the marriage the marriage the marriage the marriage the marriage the marriage th. the marriage the marriage the marriage the marriage the marriage the marriage. the marriage. the marriage. the marriage. the marriage. the marriage. the marriage. the marriage. the marriage. the marriage. the marriage. the marriage. the marriage. the marriage. the marriage. the marriage. the marriage. the marriage. the marriage. the marriage. the marriage. the marriage. the marriage. the marriage. W. tho. He. He. W. He was. He was thoooooooooom. He. He was. He was. W. He was. He was. He was. He was. W. He was. He was. W. He was. He was. He was.'t. She married him. He performed the ceremony himself. And I'm guessing they consummated the marriage right then and there. Perhaps, I don't know that detail is, but the woman's name was Mary Elizabeth Rollins Lightner. And that is who Joanne's previous life was. What a lucky girl. Meanwhile, amid all the seances and polygamy, the TLC Church continues to grow. Jim continued to teach the models. We had, I think, about 300 or so people, husbands, wives, and children at one point.

It seemed like a fairly large group. We weren't your typical polygamists that wore farmers' clothes and the women dressed in long cotton dresses that they made and they wore their hair up in these funny buns and braids. We were yuppie polygamists, college educated and had money. As the end of the world came closer, Jim kept receiving revelations. One of them took the men halfway across the country to Davies County, Missouri, Missouri, Missouri, Missouri, Missouri, Missouri, Missouri, Missouri, and Missouri, and Missouri, to, to, the the to, the the the to, the their, and their, their, and their, and their, their of the world came closer, Jim kept receiving revelations. One of them took the men halfway across the country to Davies County, Missouri. This was the place where Adam and Eve had first lived on the earth in this cornfield in Missouri. Wait, wait, wait, wait.

Yeah, okay. This definitely needs some explanation. So in 1838, the Prophet Joseph was visiting the home of a man in a remote area of eastern Missouri. It's near the Grand River. And while he was there, Joseph spotted a large pile of rocks. They're sitting in a field. And he proclaimed that that was an altar built by Adam. As in the OG Adam.

Like the fig leaf wearing apple eating Adam. That Adam. Joseph then proclaimed that this was the place where Adam and Eve lived after they were kicked out of the garden of Eden, which apparently was only a few miles away. So the Garden of Eden is in Missouri? Yes. Where else would you think it would be, Liz, Kansas? No, I was just like somewhere with like more flowers or you know like a body of water perhaps. Well, Missouri is very centrally located, right near the airports. Near the highways. Yeah, exactly.

And supposedly Adam was going to come back to the spot in the last days. So this field is considered holy for Mormons, and especially for the Manti group. All the men rented an RV or two, and they drove back to Adam on Diamen, or the Garden of Eden, in Missouri. They were going to call upon God and he was going to appear to them at this place. And we were all excited about this. Judith and I were at home, and we were waiting for Jeff's call to hear what had happened because we expected them to have seen God.

So Jeff called that evening and he said, pretty much nothing had happened, God didn't appear to them. I was so disappointed. After the phone call, I remember telling Judith that I was having a hard time believing in everything. And she got very upset with me and told me that I needed to snap out of it. That was a big scary moment because my brain actually flipped to reality for a moment,

and it scared me a lot. By the next day, I was my old self again. It was easy to make my doubts go away because I had so much invested in it. It had taken over our lives so much. As a lot of the men started finding plural wives, some of them had three or four, and Jeff only had Judith and me, so we were always searching and looking. Gotta keep up with those Joneses. One of the older men in the group had an adopted daughter that was in her 40s. She came to Mantai and she was looking for a husband.

Jeff wasn't that attracted to her, but he reluctantly said, it's time for me to add to my kingdom. To fulfill his celestial duties, Jeff went and added a third wife, Ginger. Praise be. Praise be. I could tell that she didn't like me that much. But we went ahead and had another plural wedding, another reception party. Jeff took Ginger on a honeymoon up to British Columbia. And she came back and lived in the house with us for a little while until she decided that

she needed a place of her own. Jeff would leave every couple of nights to go spend a night with her, and then she'd come over once every few days for dinner and for our family prayer. And it was kind of tough, we all didn't get along that well. Do you think Jeff was ever like, can't, can, can, can, can, can, can, can, can, can, can, can, can, can, can, can, can, can, th, th, th, th, thi, th, thi, thi, thi, thi, and thi, and the the the the the the the the the the the thi, and then, and then, and then, and then, and then, and then, and then, and then, and then, and then, and then, and then, and then, and then, and then, and the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the thi, and thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi.a, thi. thi. thean, thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. tough. We all didn't get along that well. Do you think Jeff was ever like, can I just stay in one bed for God's sake? Right, which room did I leave my toothbrush? Exactly.

Pack an overnight bag so you can go down the hall. So inconvenient. The newness of having several wives wore off pretty quick to the point where he was just happy to have to the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the to to to the to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to the... the. the. the. the the the the. the the the the the. the the. the the the. the the.e. the. the. thean. toe. toe. toe. toe. to the point where he was just happy to have sex with me. He spent more time with me than the other two because it was comfortable and familiar and I'd been married to him for eight years. So after only a few months of being a third wife, Ginger decided that she didn't really want to be married to Jeff anymore and one of the other young men decided that he wanted to add Ginger to his family. So she was released from Jeff, and she married one of the other apostles. Musical wives, if my third wife sucks, I'll just give her to you.

I was okay with ginger leaving. I don't think any of us really felt bad about it. We didn't spend a lot of time with her. It didn't seem like a failure for us. Besides, they still had Judas. At first, Judith didn't want to have any children, because she was just 17, and it was a scary thing for her. But as time went on, she needed to start

having children. Well, Jeff had had a vasectomy after we had our third child. She knew this when she married him and we all assumed that God would just take care of things. But God apparently doesn't reverse vasectomies. Oh no, it's just doctors? That's a shock. Judith decided to pray about it, and of course, she got the revelation that she should leave Jeff and be rescued by Jim. As in the prophet Jim, Jim Harmston.

Jeff did not like that at all. Not only was he sad because he'd grown to love Judith, but he was also humiliated that this other man was going to take his wife. I was very sad. We were all close, and of course she and I were really good friends, and also it was a big demotion for us. We went from polygamamous to just a couple. Barring. All right, Liz. Now remember how all this began? Jeff and Joanne moved to Mantai because the end of the world of Zni.

Christ was going to come soon. Yeah. Well, it had been seven years and still no sign of Jesus. But this was 1999 and... People were talking about Y2K and I remember Jim saying that he didn't believe that Christ was gonna return on January 1st, 2000. That was just two on the nose. He decided, by revelation of course,

that Christ was actually going to return to us in Mantai on March 25th, 2000. But not just Christ. Also thousands of angels were going to come down and the Shakina dome was going to be placed over the town of Mantai and all the wicked would be destroyed. And then we were going to walk up the hill to the Manti Temple and go in and have a big feast. Yep, Jesus and the angels were coming and they expected dinner. Hot and ready. So we started preparing for this great event. I of course was excited to have another big party. I asked Jim if I could

be in charge of the interior design. I purchased a couple of dozen green tablecloths. I had all the women in the church bring over their china and their fancy serving dishes and things. I was also doing my favorite thing, baking cookies, to add to the feast. A few of the other women were assigned to get the food for the feast, so they drove a refrigerated truck up to Costco. And they got the best food they could buy. Lots of seafood and roasts and hams, all kinds of fruit platters and vegetables. We were going to have this huge fancy dinner. After they filled up this refrigerated truck, they drove it back down to Mantai and there was no place to park it except for in our driveway.

All I could hear that night was the hum of the refrigerated box truck in my driveway. I guess that beats the sound of your husband having sex in the bedroom above you. I suppose unless you hate your husband. Yeah right, like wife 13. She is just so sick of having sex with her bossy husband. Anyway, Joanne was quite excited about the events that were going to transpire the very next day. The wicked were going to be destroyed the the the the the the the to be destroyed the the to be destroyed the the to be destroyed the to be destroyed to be destroyed the to be destroyed the to be destroyed. the the the the the the to be destroyed. the the the thoed tho. I'd tho. I the the thro. I'd tho. I'd tho. I'm th. I'm. I'm. I'm. I'm. I th. I th. I th. I th. I the the. I the the. I the the. I the the. I the the. I. I. I. I. I. I. I. I. I. I. I. I. I. I. I. I. I. I. I. I. I. I. I. I'd. to be. to be. to. to. to. to. the the the the. te. te. te. te. te. te. ttttte. ttttttttttttte. the, the. the events that were going to transpire the very next day. The wicked were going to be destroyed and we'd be the only ones left in town. We were going to go into the temple and have a big feast with Jesus and have roast beef and cookies. Because nothing says the second coming like roast beef. We had purchased another building that we called the Meeting House.

I had decorated it, painted all the walls, marble. This was going to be where Christ was going to come back to us. So the next day, March 25th, everyone in the church came, everyone had their white robes on. Everybody was so excited. After a few hours, we decided to have our big prayer. Everyone in the church came. Everyone had their white robes on. Everybody was so excited. After a few hours, we decided to have our big prayer. We stood in our circles and held hands. The women, of course, had to veil their faces, and we all stood around in our white robes.

And I remember Jim beginning the prayer and calling upon Jesus and the host of heaven to come down and meet us. And of course it was very dramatic. He repeated the words over and over again and I remember looking up toward the ceiling through my veil and trying to imagine what was going to happen next. I thought the ceiling was just going to part and the bright light was going to come in and I would see these personages start floating down into the room and hover above us. I was going to actually see Christ in the flesh. For several minutes I stared at the ceiling waiting for this to happen. Jim closed the prayer and said, We need to spend more time testifying. Jim closed the prayer and said,

we need to spend more time testifying. He let everyone in the whole room bear their testimony, and we sat there for hours listening to everybody, ramble on about their feelings. It was kind of a downer. So it went from cookies and milk with Jesus to a group therapy session. After we'd been there for hours and hours, it was after midnight. Prophet Jim told everyone to go home and get some sleep. They'll try again the next night. So the next day we went back and we did the same thing,

nothing happened. So Jim said, go home and stay by your phones. If something happens, we'll call everybody. Ring, ring, ring, ring, ring. Hey, Joanne, it's Jim. I just want to let you know that Jesus was held up in traffic. He's on his way, so make sure the table claws are ironed. Oh, and don't forget the cookies. And maybe warm up that roast beef. Jesus loves roast beef.

We did get a phone call the next morning and Jim told us to come to a meeting. He was just inviting the inner circle, which meant him and his wives and the apostles and their wives. So we went over and Jim was like, what are we going to tell the rest of the church? What do you think happened? We discussed it for a while, and one of the men who wasn't there in the inner circle meeting, he had called Jim earlier, and he had quite the imagination. This was one of the members of the group, and he knew a lot about science.

I mean, he was Benjamin Franklin in the past life, after all. And his idea was that there was some kind of a folding of time. Everything had happened that we anticipated would, but God had folded back time a day. And so it really had taken place, but we just didn't experience it in reality. Jim decided that was the reason. Okay, just a recap, Jesus and the angels came down, thousands of humans were destroyed, everyone had a lovely potluck dinner. Jesus loved the cookies, and then God folded back time and everyone forgot that it happened. Like a celestial undo button.

And they called this the folding time doctrine. Okay, real talk for a minute. The masterful manipulation that happens in cults never ceases to amaze me, but the folding time doctrine, that's just pure genius. So a couple of days after Jeff and I went for a walk one evening and he started talking about how he wasn't quite sure of this folding time doctrine. And I was worried that he was losing his testimony. I said, well, let's make sure we don't throw the baby out with a bathwater. And he said, I don't think there ever was a baby. He wasn't sure any of this was real anymore. Jeff also mentioned that he had been worrying about about about about about about about about about about about about about about about about about that that that thinginginginginginginging about that he that he that he that he that he 't think there ever was a baby. He wasn't sure any of this was real anymore. Jeff also mentioned that he had been worrying about our daughters growing up and

being polygamous wives and that we needed to totally, totally change our viewpoint and get back to reality. By the end of the walk, I was feeling in agreement with him, and I realized, okay, unfortunately, Christ isn't going to return to us here, and all of this experience was a waste of time. Although it's very painful to realize something you've dedicated your life to turns out to be a complete waste of time. This was also a huge moment of clarity for Joanne, whether she knew it or not.

A crack on the facade. It was the beginning of the end. Praise be, Joanne. Hell a freaking Lula. That next Sunday, Jeff was assigned to conduct the meeting. He just couldn't do it. He just couldn't get up there and pretend like everything was normal. So we put the kids in the van and we took them for a drive. We're driving out of town and we tell our kids that we're going to leave the church and we're going to move away from Mantai and move back to Oram.

They just kind of sat there and thought about it for a minute and then our one daughter said, but doesn't God want us in Mantai? No, it's not important for us to be here anymore. And they were fine with that. So when we got back, Jeff wrote an official letter to Jim saying that we were leaving the church. We heard that that next Sunday Jim read the letter in church. He got up at the pulpit and just ripped Jeff apart. He also said that we had committed one of the worst sins there was and because we had done that we would be cursed with a black skin. Fucking white people.

So in the couple of months it took us to get ready to leave town. We gave away some furniture. During that time, we decided that we needed to get rid of our garments. Here's another thing. Perhaps you've heard the term magic Mormon underwear? I haven't, but where can I buy some? They're known as garments. Mormons wear them, they're white.

The bottoms go all the way to your knees and the top is like a t-shirt, and if you're worthy Mormon, you have to wear them all the time. So there's no Victoria's secret for Mormons? Well, the Mormons do have a lot of secrets, Liz, but Victorias isn't one of them. Did you have to wear them, Tyler? I did, Liz, once upon a time. But the garments that the members of the TLC war were slightly more extreme. We had the old-fashioned garments that Joseph first came up with. He said he'd gotten the pattern from angels. They were pretty much like white longjohns. They went to our ankles and went to our wrists. So we had these funny old garments and we got the idea to just take our longjohn garments out

into the yard, build a little fire, burn them and then bury them up with the ashes. What else do you do with holy underwear? Burn them and then bury them up with the ashes. What else do you do with holy underwear? We couldn't donate it to the DI. So they buried their underwear ashes, packed up their belongings, and moved out of Mantai. In order of importance. So we decided we were going to move back into the rental home that my father owned where Jeff and I lived when we were first married and that was humiliating

because it was just a dumpy little house and we had to leave our big beautiful dream home. It was hard to give up all of the exciting plans and our whole lifestyle and also a hard part was admitting to our families back in the real world. that the real world that we the that, that we the th, th. that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, the, the, the, where the, where the, the, where the, where the, where the, where the, where the, where th, where th, th, th, th, the, the, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, the the the the the that, the the that, and the the the that, and the the the that, and that, the that, that, and that, that, that, that, that, part was admitting to our families back in the real world that we had failed. That we had been sucked into this and all the time that we had been preaching to them, that we were right and that they needed to join us, that we weren't. We were wrong. And it was hard to be humiliated that way. To be able to admit failure, you know, admit you were duped. I think that's one of the most

admirable things a person can do. Of course it is, but the problem is that society construes admitting failure with weakness. You change your mind and you're labeled as a flip-flopper. Right, but it's just the opposite of weak. It takes real strength. You have to completely let go of your ego and your pride, you know, which can be painful, but it's really brave and it's humbling. Yeah, but we're being manipulated all day long by a society. But if more people could just admit, look, you know what, I was wrong.

I joined the wrong church, I followed the wrong leader, I cited with the wrong party. If we could all just kind of admit that and not hold people at fault for doing such, we would probably be in a better place. We'd be a more peaceful society. Much more peaceful, because we wouldn't have to fight, you know? All the fighting in our society comes out of holding on to ego. You're wrong, I'm right. Right. You know, some say the ego is the false self and that the soul is the true self. So with Joanne admitting that she made this mistake, she was releasing her ego, which ironically had been harboring this false sefety within an environment

that was promoting a false prophecy. Yeah. th, kind, kind, kind, kind, kind, kind, kind, kind, kind, kind, kind, th, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, tho, tho, tho, tho, tho, tho, tho, tho, tho, tho, tho, tho, tho, you tho, you tho, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, theeean, thean, thean, thean, thean, thean, thean, thean, that, thean, thi, thi, that was promoting a false prophecy. Yeah. Kind of interesting. But what do you do? I mean, once you've realized that the entire life that you've been living for some time was a complete lie, what do you do? So after we moved back into our little rental house, it was really hard to change my view of life and what we were going to do next. It costs a lot of anxiety, really.

So I'm watching TV one evening and I find George Carlin doing his stand-up act and he starts talking about how religion is the biggest bullshit story ever told. I gotta tell you the truth. When it comes to big-time, Major League bullshit, you have to stand in awe of the all-time champion of false promises and exaggerated claims, religion. No contest. And goes into his funny comments that if you don't follow God, you're going to be cursed and damned and end up in hell.

Full of fire and smoke and burning and torture and anguish where he will send you to live and suffer and burn and choke and scream and cry forever and ever till the end of time. But God loves you. And he needs your money. He always needs money. He's all powerful, all perfect, all knowing, and all wise, somehow, just can't handle money. And I hadn't heard this before.

And it was funny, and it was so exactly what I had been thinking, and I realized that was reality, and not all these fantasies and magical experiences that I'd been caught up in. Ironically, it wasn't an angel that gave her the most powerful witness, but a brilliant, fucked-up comedian. If only she had paid for the premium cable package sooner. We started living a real life again and listening to normal people, reading scientific books, expanding our minds. I was able to start people, reading scientific books, expanding our minds.

I was able to start living life as it was in the here and now. It's interesting to me that often the antidote to mind control cults and manipulative groups is knowledge and education. And with knowledge comes power. And in the case of Joanne, personal power. A few years after we left Manti, we eventually got divorced. The kids and I got our own home and I began to become my own person for the first time in my life. Not having a husband to tell me what to do or to take care of me. Not having a religion to tell me what to do or to take care of me,

not having a religion to tell me how to think. It's been a long journey and it's been very difficult, but now I'm to the point where I don't I don't need anybody else. I can take care of myself, I can support my daughters and I've discovered that I'm an intelligent, capable person and that life is more joyful now than it ever has been. Sometimes the arrival at inner strength and true freedom comes after you realize that you don't need a husband, or a wife a wife or 13 wives or even Jesus to tell you who you are and how to be. And often that freedom is gained in the surrender of all that you once believed to be true. That sounds like something a cult leader might say. But it is true, isn't it?

Thanks for listening and thanks to Joanne Hanks for telling her story and for letting us have a little bit of fun. And if you want to have a little bit more fun, pick up a copy of Joanne's book. It's called It's Not About the Sex My Ass. It is a genuinely funny week. And you definitely don't want to miss the episode that is coming next. Next. Next. Next.

On this walk, she tells me about this mentorship program. She's like, it's a woman's only secret society. It's like a membership-only club or a sorority. There's secrets. If you want to know more, you have to submit three pieces of collateral. Financial, family and reputation. So I knew it as the vow. The actual name is Doss. Who's that, Liz?

Jessica Joan. And what cult? Nixiem. Nice. So join us next week and don't forget to subscribe and rate and tell all your friends about was I in a cult. Follow us, people. You won't regret it. If you or someone you know has ever been manipulated into a cultic environment or relationship,

visit our shownotes to be in touch. We really would love to hear from you. This stuff isn't easy, but bringing awareness to cultic abuse is critical to stopping the problem and exposing these seemingly rampant narcissistic leaders. I mean after all without followers a cult is just a mentally deranged human standing on a corner, pontificating to the birds. That's how I picture you when you're 90 Tyler. Just standing on a street corner, ranting about life before the iPhone. God, I'm looking forward to my 90s. Was An't a cult is story produced, written,

and hosted by myself Liz Ayakuzzi. And me, Tyler Miesum. Executive producer is Maya Cole. Supervising producer is Catherine Bert Canton. Editor is Chandler Maze. Special thanks to our Rider Die from the Beginning. Ben Bolan. Until next week, ignore the witness. me. Don't spare my life. Crucify me.

May it you come. Love and wife. Kiss me goodnight. you know the try to to you