Was I In A Cult? - My Dad’s A Cult Leader: “The Failed Love Movement"

Episode Date: July 15, 2024

A couple weeks ago we published an episode featuring Ashleigh Teeter, who was ostracized from her family because of her cult leader father. Today we feature her youngest brother's story of growing up in that house long after Ashleigh was gone. 14 years her junior, Mattie was just a young boy when her sister was deemed demonic by his father. And for almost 25 years the siblings never spoke to each other. Today we welcome Mattie to share his heartbreaking story… a boy who was never allowed to talk to a girl without brutal consequences. ——  Today, Mattie and Ashleigh are not only reunited but they host a podcast about their upbringing together. It’s called “The Cult Next Door” and is available wherever you get your podcasts. ——  Thanks to everyone who supports our show. It really helps us. Can’t afford to contribute monetarily? Reviews and ratings help a bunch. Thank you! If you would like to support us, head to our Patreon  Follow us: instagram/TikTok @wasiinacult Listen to Mattie & Ashleigh's podcast: The Cult Next Door @cultnextdoorpodcast (insta/tiktok) Have your own story and want to be on our show?  Email us: [e-mail] 

The views, information, or opinions expressed by the guest appearing in this episode solely belong to the guest and do not represent or reflect the views or positions of the hosts, the show, podcast one, this network, or any of their respective affiliates. I mean, the main reason that I would want to talk about this is just hearing other people's stories of similar experiences was so incredibly important and powerful for me and I thought man if I can do the same thing for even literally one person I know that sounds cliche like if I can change one person's life but genuinely like if it helps somebody that's worthwhile doing. Welcome to Wasana Colt, I'm Liz Aikwuzi.

And over here I'm Tyler Miesum. Now on this show, Was I Ina Colt, we give people who are in cults or cultic environments a chance to share their story and take their power back. And we do this with what we hope to be a little bit of levity. Because, well, Colts can be funny. And if you've been listening for a while, you know th thi th thi th th th th th thui th thu th th th thu thu thu thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi, I thi, I thi, I thi, I'm thi, I'm to thu-a, I'm to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to their to their their their their their their their their their their their their their the the the the the tou their their their thooooooo. I tho. I tho we hope to be a little bit of levity. Because well cults can be funny and if you've been listening for a while you now know that cult can exist just about anywhere. Yeah many times we get asked what makes a cult? I mean what's the difference between a workout class and a pole dancing cult. And there are many things that make a cult

but one of the big deciding factors is, of course, the leader, the often charismatic, malignant, narcissistic person at the helm of this group. This person, we've come to find, often has childhood trauma and likely has additional mental illnesses to boot. Now we aren't psychologists, but this is just what we've surmised from covering cults for as long as we have. We've also approached the topic of cults in a way that we hope humanizes the experience. Now a lot of cult content out there is very sensationalized and gives off the feeling of look at those crazy monkeys in the zoo. I love monkeys in the zoo. But on the show we approach it as if it could happen to anyone. Because it can. And sometimes well that charismatic

leader is... A monkey in the zoo. Yeah, we're all just a small DNA fraction away from a monkey smelling his own feces in the zoo. You know, Tyler, the more I see the human race, I'm beginning to think that percentage is much less. Nonetheless, sometimes the charismatic leader is your dad. Like today's guest, Maddie. Now this is an interesting episode because it completely stands alone on its own. It's not a part two, by any means. But if you listen to Ashley's episode from a couple weeks ago, this episode is the story of her baby brother, whom she was a strange trum for almost 25 years. Because of their cult leader father. And it might help for context to listen to Ashley's episode first.

I think we can do even better today because you're hungover and I'm a little tipsy. Yes, but someone drunk and someone hung over. Nothing makes for a better podcast than that. Oh! It doesn't take much when you're in your 50s to be hung to be hung to be hung to be hung to be hung to be hung to be to be to be to be to be their their their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their their their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their their, their their their their their their their their their, their their their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their their their their their their their their their toleatu. toda, today, their their their their their their their their their their their their their their that. It doesn't take much when you're in your 50s to be hungover. For Tyler. Yeah just watching a bud-like commercial on TV will give me a bit of a hungover. Yeah. Billy Bob Thornton partied hard with me last night so I'm a little... one way to him drop. Oops did that just hit the ground? Oh my god Billy Bob Floren's reason I'm hung over I'm hung over though. I know I know I know well if anybody is gonna be responsible for you being hung over I think that's a pretty good candidate.

it is it is a pretty good candidate I mean I'm not gonna take any responsibility for what I did it's all it that that tho th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th that that that that that that that's that that's that's that's that's that's that that's that's just just just that that's that's just that's just that's just just just just that that's that's just that that that that that that's just that's just that's just that's just just that's just just just just that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that thi that that that that tho tho that that that that that that that that that's that that's that that's that that that that that that's a pretty good candidate. It is. It is a pretty good candidate. I mean, I'm not going to take any responsibility for what I did. It's all on Slingblade for making me hungover. Yep. You really taking a departure from your humble upbringing, Tyler. Good stuff, sex drugs, rock and roll. So with that, let's let Mad town in the Arkansas River Valley. Yeah, I'm the baby of the family. There was a pretty good gap between me and all the rest of the kids. I was not planned if you couldn't tell.

Tyler cannot say the same. Oh Liz, I was very, very planned. There's eight of us, eight children. I'm in the middle, is, is, is. I. I. I. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. the the th. th. the th. th. th. the thi. I, the thi. I, I, I thi. I thi. I thi. I was thi. I was thi. I was thi. I, I was thi. I was thi. I, I was thi. I was thi. I was thi. I, I, I was thi. I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I. I th. I th. I th. I th. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. t t t ti. ti. ti. ti. ti. ti. ti. ti. ti. ti. ti. ti. ti. ti. the same. Oh Liz, I was very, very planned. There's eight of us, eight children. I'm in the middle-ish. I was planned. Even from a really early age, kind of viewed myself as a little bit of the black sheep. I feel like I got blamed for a lot of things. Like, I always am the one breaking stuff or messing stuff up. But as far as like my relationship with my siblings, like, all of them are wonderful to me.

I've always had a really wonderful relationship with my mom. From as long as I can remember, there was obviously a strange relationship with my dad. He was strict. Like, you just never really knew where you stood with him, generally speaking. So that kind of kept everybody off kilter, and I, obviously I felt that that, I th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi, thi, thi, all all thi, all thi, all thi, all all all thi, all thiolk, all thiolk, all thiolk, all thiolk, all thi, all all, all all all, all, all all all all all, all all all all all, all all all thi, all all all th, all th, all all all all th, all th, all all th, all all all all all all th, all all all all th, all all th, all all th, all th, all thi, all thi, all thi, thi. thi. thate. thateateateateate. All of thateateateateateateate. All of thateateateateateateate. All, all of thate you stood with him, generally speaking. So that kind of kept everybody off kilter, and I, obviously, I felt that way from the time I could remember. Now as we covered in Ashley's episode, Maddie's family started in the Worldwide Church of God.

My earliest memories are centered around being in a pretty stuffy church service with a lot of hymns and a lot of structure and strictness, if you will. Probably the main things that would set worldwide apart from you know mainstream Christianity or normal other denominations would be that we're very strict on Saturday Sabbath. We did not keep Christmas, you know, didn't celebrate Halloween, didn't celebrate Easter, and we celebrated the biblical holy days that most people would associate with Jews and things like that. A nice blend.

Sort of like a religious Bordeaux, if you will. So I was in regular public school. There were some things that kind of would set me and the rest of the kids in our family apart if there were Christmas carols that they would sing in the hallway during Christmas time. We couldn't even be around, that kind of stuff, but otherwise, like it was a normal experience. So let's refresh you all on Herbie W. Armstrung. He started World White Church of God, and they thought they were

the one true chosen church. So it was a very black and white point of view was worldwide. So Herbert W. Armstrong, he passed away, I think it was in the late 80s, and so the people in control then kind of start tweaking things here and there were people that were just not having that. And then there was a mass exodus from there in big groups that split off and started their own version of Worldwide. My dad and mom being among them, we split off from that, but we attended the main splinter group, but it just was not my dad's speed. He kind of had ideas about how he wanted church to be, and I don't think it was officially,

like he's starting a church, but there were people that he kind of pulled in to have services with him in a house kind of thing. So that was kind of the beginnings of, you know, what later became Crusade Church. Now if you guys can remember from Ashley's episode that time her father essentially said that he was given the gift of prophecy and that God has a message for his oldest daughter. Yeah it's confusing Liz. Let's just let her tell it. And God has given me a message to you. to theu to to thi. tho tho tho the. the. the. the. the. the. the. the. the. the. the. the. the. the. the. the. the. the. the. the. the. this the. the. the. the. tho tho tho tho th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the. This the. This is the. This is the. This is the. the. toea. toea. toea. toea. toea. toea. thea. toea. thea. thea. thea. thea. the. the. th a message to give to you. In darkness, unable to move, you will find great surprise and fear. I saw a vision of you in a spider web, in a room with no door.

Now this convenient prophecy, of course, came on the heels of Ashley getting engaged to a man who didn't follow her father's break-off sect. And so her dumb fucking potato of a father claimed that this horrific prediction of her future came straight from God and he kicked her out of his house. And here's what Maddie recalls from the event. Remember, he was just a young boy at the time. I seemed to remember the meeting that dad had with Ashley. I remember Ashley going into the room with dad and then leaving and even at that age I clearly knew something was wrong with her. And then dad was acting in ways that I had never seen and mom was like an absolute wreck, like just keeping it

together if you can even call it that. I just remember her leaving and that was one of the last times I saw her for a long time. And that was a huge moment for me because we were very close, but from that point on, like that all stopped. So it was like a huge shift. You know, Ashley is dead to us, so to speak. We didn't talk about her much at all. If we did, it was in the context of Ashley was possessed by demons and so like I remember even early on viewing her like an enemy. Ashley was an enemy of the family and of the church and that was used to band us together in what I know now to genuinely be. to genuinely be a the ch. to genuinely be a the to be a to, to, the to, the the to, the the the the to, the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the to to to to to to to to to the the to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the too. the the the the the the the the church and that was used to band us together in what I know now to genuinely be a family cult. That made that even stronger.

This message is sponsored by Greenlight. You know, Liz and I are both parents and let's be honest, parenting can be tough. However, when kids get older, some elements of parenting actually do get easier. Like when they're old enough to babysit themselves? Oh yes, very much so. And other things, well, they get more difficult. Like having that very heavy conversation with your child. The birds and the bees.

Worse, money. The fact is, kids really don't know how to manage their money until they're actually in charge of it. This is where Greenlight can help. Tyler and I we both use Greenlight and we love it. Yeah, Greenlight is a debit card and money app made for families. Parents can send money to the kids and keep an eye on kids saving and spending. While kids and teens build money confidence and lifelong financial literacy skills. We use it, one of my son's favorite parts of Greenlight is

the chores feature. Every night we click on the chores that he finished that day, make bed, set table. And if they get them all done, they get their allowance which they can spend, save or invest. Boy which is better than when I was a kid. We had to slave all day 12 hours long as a chimney. to the to to their. to to to their. to to to their. to to their. their. to to their. their. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their. their. their. their. their. their, their. their, their, their, their, their, th. th. th. thi. too. too. too. tooe. tooe. tooe. tooe. tooe. tooe. tooe. tooe. tooe. their, their, we had to slave all day, 12 hours long as a chimney sweep. I'd come home with black long, Liz, and all for a mere shilling. We liked it that way. Life was much harder in the 80s, guys. Yes, yes it was. Millions of parents and kids are learning about money on Greenlight.

It's the easy, convenient way for parents to raise financially smart kids and families to navigate life together. Spend up for Greenlight today and get your first month free when you go to Greenlight.com. slash cult. That's Greenlight.com. Cult to try Greenlight for free. Greenlight.com slash cult. This one's for our dear cat mommies and daddies out there. We are sponsored by Litter Robot. And if you haven't heard of this product yet, we're here to change. the first. the first. the first. the first. the first. the first. the first. the first. the first. the first. the first. the first. the first. to the first. to to the first. to to the first. to to to to to the first. the first. to the first. the first. th. th. to to to to to to to to to to to to to to th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. the first. the first. the first. the first. the first. the first. the first. the first. the first. the first. the first. the first. the first. the first. the first. the first. the first. the the the the the the the the th. th. th. the the. the the the the. the the. the the. the. the the. the. the. th. th. the first. out there. We are sponsored by Litter Robot. And if you haven't heard of this product yet, we're here to change your life. Not in like a cult leader kind of way, guys, more in like the you don't have to change

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listeners of this show go to stop scooping.com slash cult and use promo code to save an additional 50 dollars on any litter robot bundle. That's $100 off any litter robot bundle at stop scooping.com slash cult. Use promo code cult. Promo code cult that's actually a pretty good deal. Yeah it is and you better hurry because jinxy needs to go. Meow! So now the Worldwide Church had split, and her father went with a more traditional and fundamentalist group. But... There was no real leadership. At that point it was just a group of like-minded people that said, hey, we want to hold to these tenants of Worldwide. We think that they apostasize.

So let's kind of keep doing that same thing with this small group and we'll meet in a house or whatever we'll do. And then of course, I don't think any group can last that long without any leadership or direction. I think maybe dad just assumed the leadership role. It was just natural to him and he thought, yeah, thia, thia, thia, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, I, I, I, I, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, that, that, that, tho, tho, tho, thi, thi, tho, tho, tho, tho, tho, and we'll, and we'll, tho, and we'll, and we'll, and we'll, and we'll, and we'll, and we'll, and we'll, and, tho, and, tho, tho, tho, tho, th. tho, tho, tho, thi, thi, thi, thi, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, to to to to to to thooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo, the, thought, yeah, I guess I'll do it. Which is exactly how my OB got his job to no one else that deliver a baby, so yeah, I guess I'll do it. Is that the only requirements to someone to step up? You know, Craigslist is underrated, Tyler. You should really give it a chance.

And much like that, very well thought out decision. The father decided to, you know, make it that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that the that that thia the the thi, the the the thiole. the the the the the the the their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their to be. to be. to bea. toe. toe. toe. toe. toe. toe. toe. toe. toe. toe. toe. toe. toe. toe. toe. out decision. The father decided to, you know, make it a proper church. The way that my dad kind of viewed it was more like a crusade, like, yeah, we're going to call ourselves this crusade church of God, and then just crusade church after that. Yes, great idea. If I'm going to name a church, it will be after the crusades, the religious and military campaigns that took place between the 11th and 13th centuries. Because nothing says come on to Christ like two centuries of brutality and bloodshed. Like in 1098 during the first crusade when the crusaders captured the Syrian city of Mahara. Now

thousands of men, women and children were massacred by the Crusaders and the Crusaders engaged in cannibalism, eating the flesh of their Muslim enemies. Cannibalism, it's like having a meal to die for. No, you are not going to make cannibalism. I'm going there. It's too soon. It was 1098, but we cannot make cannibalism jokes. Cannibalism. It's what's for dinner. Cannibalism, it's what's for Dahmer.

Cannibalism, you are what you eat. Cannibalism. Invite seven friends for dinner, leave with six. Cannibalism. It's a real man-to-man meal. Cannibalism. Donner, party of six. Cannibalism, a potluck where everyone brings a piece of their heart. Cannibalism, when you want to meet your friends for a bite. Cannibalism, what I resort to meet your friends for a bite. Cannibalism, what I resort to when DoorDash is late. Canibalism. Seriously, again, Liz? Did you have to do it again?

I'm getting hungry. I'm getting way too hungry. It's dinner time. We're going back to the crusades. Okay. One year later, after that particular lovely moment, during the siege of Jerusalem, 15,000 crusaders spent over a month attempting to breach the walls of Jerusalem. And when they finally did, the blood ran through the streets in a frenzy of violence against Muslim and Jewish inhabitants, leaving the city to populated and in ruins.

Cannibalism. It's finger-looking good. When we kind of started the proper church, we were just renting a tiny little building in town. Crusade kept a lot from worldwide, like Saturday, Sabbath, and Holy Days, and the biblical food laws. But Worldwide was not a Music-centric church at all. We had a huge focus on music because my dad was a musician When he was a young man like he was an organ player and rock band, and so I think he decided that's not so bad.

Let's kind of bring some of that over to this new group Whatever the cult leader likes thethe group gets. And it's usually always a sign from God or a vision. But it's always part of some divine plan. So we would have 45-minute praise service with a full band. We would have maybe some old school kind of hymns that were sung at the very beginning of a service to kind of kick it off and then we would have our full music service and then there would be special music after that. There were several that my dad even wrote. Say your prayers and let them snore.

Fall on your knees and be restored. Look to Jesus. Oh, look to Jesus. Oh, look to Jesus. Oh, look to Jesus. Oh, look to Jesus. Actually, it's not that bad. It's a pretty catchy song. I'm not going to lie.

And a lot of old school classic songs that we would kind of put our own spin on or even change the lyrics if need be. We even did a Christian version of The Beatles Let It Be. So that was the kind of vibe that we had going. I guess I've blocked out so much of this. I'm trying to remember what the lyric change which that song I don't think you needed a lot of lyric changes. And then we also, I don't th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th tho, I don't tho, I don't tho, I don't th tho, I don't th tho, I thi tho, I tho, I tho, I tho, I thu the the the the the, the, the, th. th. th. th. th, th, th, th, th, th, I th, I th, I th, I th, I th, I th, I th, I th, I th. th. th. th. th. the, I the, I the, I'm the the the the theeean, thean, thean, thean, thin. thean, thean, thin, theeeeeeeeee the the trying to remember what the lyric change, which that song I don't think you needed a lot of lyric changes. And then we also, I don't know if you're familiar with Ario Speedwagon. But roll with the changes, do you know that one? That classic? We did our own version of that. Oh, Tyler, it's almost as if he's mocking you. Do I know that song? That's the song. Do I know I th. th you th you th. th you th th th th th th th the th the the the the the th the th th th the the th th th th th th th th th th th th the the' the' thr- I thr- I don't the' th th th th th th th the the' the' the' the' the' the' the' the' th. I're th. I're th. I're th. I're th. I're th th. I're th. I're th. I're th. I th. I th th th. I th th th. I th thr the thr- I thr-a' thr-a' thr-a' thrown. I'm thr-a' thr-a' throo' thr-a' thro' thro' the woods? Is the Pope Catholic? Is your dad a cult leader? Yes, I know that song. That's from the 1978 album. You can tune a piano, but you can't tune a fish. That's a real album. Sounds like I just made that up, but I didn't. That's the name of the album. It also had the hit Time for Me To that's A the tie. That's a great song. the the the the the th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. the the the th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. Yes. th. th. th. th. th. th. to to th. to to to toe. toe. to. toe. to. tod toe. tod toe. the. the. the. th. th. th. th. the lead singer of the group. Earlier, he had left the band and he came back and he wrote that song,

Roll with the changes. And we're talking about like as close to the original as we could get. Musically, like rip-roaring guitar and the full band and the drums and the whole bit. It was dad on lead vocals and keyboard. My sister would sing, and then my brother-in-law Brian would play guitar and sing, and then I was lead guitarist. I'm all right. I can play role with the changes, which is good enough.

It's good enough for God's. But it wasn't all rock and roll. We did a Tuesday at 7. Bible study would last 2.5 hours, something like that. And then we had a Friday night, praise and prayer service, start at 7, that would last like several hours. The Lord yearns for his lost bride that is out there wounded and bleeding, and that we can be a people where the blood of Christ can flow from us into their open wounds to heal them and bring them into the wedding chamber.

And then 1030 a.m. service on Saturday which was all day like we wouldn't leave often until like 5, 6 p.m. We had like a potluck and men's and women's and children's Bible studies and then maybe a testimony service but you're jam packed that day with things at certain times just all day. And all the while, his father is slowly morphing into a bona fide cult leader. So I remember very early on, Dad said that he had a vision, just like in the middle of the day, a vision where it's like a tunnel came over his face, and then he saw in the distance a man on a cross, and it got closer and closer, and he saw that it was him, himself, on the cross, being crucified. In the vision, the Lord told him, like, this is how you must be, and this is what you

must do. That was a huge departure. Oh, God's talking to you now now now now now now now now now now now now now now now now now now now now now now now now now to you to you to you to you to you to you the the to you the the the the the the the the the the to you. the to you. the to you. that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's. that's. that's. that's. that's. that's. that's. that's. that's. that's. that's that's. that's. that's that's. that's that's the the the that's th. the th. th. th. th. th. th. too. th. th. th. the th. the. the. the the. the the. the t today. today. the today. today. the. the. the. the. the. the th departure. Oh, God's talking to you now? You know, it's funny, that's exactly how my OB describes it too. Yeah, that Craigslist, OBGYN. And so that did not slow down, that only increased. And so, you know, the teachings kind of shifted to more of a focus on, yeah, there are visions, and by the way I am a prophet which he said very early on. Yesterday I was sitting in my chair and I was preparing my thoughts I was listening to the Lord I was writing things down I can't write them down fast enough. They're just so wonderful. He's giving me a faith I've never had before. But there was no doubting that he was telling the truth. Like, yeah, obviously. He says, this is what's happening, that's definitely what's happening. So I don't know how everybody else in the church viewed him, but I do know that they by and large believed him that

he was a prophet, that he was receiving visions and prophecies directly from God and he was going to be dictating the direction of the church. There was no misunderstanding about that from anybody. He was the final say on everything we were doing. Hey listeners, if you're on the lookout for True Crime Stories told from a fresh perspective with nuance, depth, and detail, we have a new show for you. Yeah, check out Murder True Crime Stories, a Crime House original podcast. From the shocking Chandra Levy case and infamous Tylenol murderers, to the tragic deaths of the clutter family.

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Gomaddy continues to obey everything his father said. I mean they all did. He was the word of God after all. And then, like many cult leaders, it got to the point where he wanted more. And then, like many cult leaders, it got to the point where he wanted more. When I was about 14, that's when Dad decided, hey, we need to record our sermons and post them somewhere. Like, we need to get the word out there. So he bought a camera and some editing software. And so he's like, hey, why don't you try to figure this out? Hey, uh, since I'm a dumb, fucking potato. Could you go do this and make it good and stuff and free labor and whatever,

but, you know, your family, so thanks. You'd think the guy could talk to God, he could figure out, or at least God could tell him how to use the editing software, right? And it just kind of went from there, eventually like I'm kind of running our upstairs balcony operations of like multi-cameras and the soundboard and I've got like a team of people up there that are working with me to run services. That is not paid work by the way. When I was about 15 or so I, as one does when you're a teenager, you start to like girls or boys or whatever it is.

And there was a girl in the church that I was really good friends with and we started a little secret kind of summer romance kind of thing. And of course, I knew that that was, you know, not allowed, but, you know, we were doing the, like, what you would expect kids of that age, like we're secretly holding hands here and there. And there was a day that, I think she dropped a note that was meant for me. Her dad found it, and then told my parents, and all hell broke loose from there. My parents just kind of unloaded on me about how wicked I was. I was called a whoremonger.

I was 15 years old. Like my mom is standing next to my dad, just a absolute wreck, just keeping it together. And my dad is absolutely dressing me down in like apocalyptic terms. And my dad is in the middle of the living room floor, wailing and weeping and saying, I might not be fit anymore to serve as pastor. You may have destroyed the whole church. Like you may have just ruined all of it at 15

because of your wickedness. Great word, hormonger. Yes, but misused in this case because hormonger comes from the Proto-Germanic Horo, which root is associated with the idea of lust or desire, which is how it came to be associated with prostitution. And monger, coming from Menguri, means a merchant or trader. So basically a pimp.

Yeah, it's a lot easier to say that. Yeah, a pimp. It's unlikely that 15-year-old Maddie was pimping out his 13-year-old crush, but. I also remember that he wrote me and this girl multi-page stapled letter to just detail all the ways that we were sinners and hormongers. He called her a whore. She's like 13 years old. I was given the letter and then I was sent upstairs to my room and secluded away from everybody. Like I wasn't spoken to, like shunned. When this first started, like I thought, oh, this could be indefinite.

So I just thought like, oh, my life's over, I guess. My dad said, I guess, the Lord had impressed upon him that it was going to be 40 days and 40 nights, much like Jesus in the wilderness kind of thing, being tempted by the devil. So I wasn't going anywhere doing anything. Somebody would bring up a plate and leave it in front of the door and knock and then go back downstairs. So I'm just like completely alone. I'm just trying to do everything, right? Just a lot of crying and pleading out to God kind of thing to not be damned because you know I just destroyed everything like all the stuff that God was going to do I just

ruined all of it now during this time I did take it upon myself to fast for three days and three nights which is super super hard if you didn't know but I did that because I'm thinking like well this will be cleansing for me of my sin right? And you know I'm reading my Bible and taking copious notes just trying everything to get back in God's good graces and dad's good graces which to me they were one in the same. I didn't literally think my dad was God but for me like if I was cross with Dad in some way, I was not good with God. So I'm trying everything I can to get back

to being in some sort of good position with him and with God. And that lasted for 40 days and 40 nights. All for liking a girl at the age of 15. Makes being grounded sound like a trip to Disneyland. Now the phrase 40 days and 40 nights appear several times in the Bible and is often associated with periods of trial, testing, or preparation. I'll help you out here, Tyler.

Now we aren't going to discuss them all but here are some notable ones. Noah's Ark. Yeah it rained for 40 days and 40 nights which caused the flood that covered the earth. Moses on Mount Sinai. Moses spent 40 days and 40 nights on Mount Sinai where he received the 10 commandments and instructions for the tabernacle. And last but never least Jesus's temptation. After his baptism Jesus was led by the spirit into the wilderness, where he fasted for 40 days and 40 nights. During this time he was tempted by Satan but remained without sin, demonstrating his victory over temptation. That's also the log line for naked and afraid, season 15. I will not watch that. And so while Maddie was in this

solitary confinement he also wasn't allowed to attend church services. He wasn't allowed to even leave the house. So I had been out of the church also for this time and even though there were a group of people in the church that did know why like when you're not there and this other girl is also not there for that period of time like Like people kind of figure out what's going on. And so part of the requirement to come back after the 40 days and 40 nights, we were both baptized out at the lake in town. Like you're now a member of the church and of the body of Christ and all this stuff and

hands laid upon you for the Holy Spirit and then, you know, takes it up a notch because you're not a kid anymore. If you do this kind of thing again like you know you really could be damned. And it affected all areas of his life. So I was in regular public school but I'd finished ninth grade and I was a decent student I don't know like a B student but I had friends at school that I hung out with that was really the only place that I th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th thi th thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi. If thi. If thi. If th. If th. If th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. kind kind kind kind kind kind kind kind kind kind kind kind kind kind kind kind kind kind kind kind kind kind kind kind kind kind kind kind kind kind kind kind kind kind kind kind kind kind kind kind kind kind kind kind kind kind kind kind kind kind kind kind kind kind kind kind kind kind kind kind thin thin thin thin thin. I I thin. I thin. I'm the thin. I'm thin. I'm thin. I'm thin. I'm, but I had friends at school that I hung out with. That was really the only place that I had like a social outlet because there weren't a lot of people in the church. But when all of this happened, I was yanked out of school and I was told like, okay, you're going to homeschooled, because I guess at that point I can't just be out there being influenced by the world and wreaking havoc. So I was homeschooled from that point on for the rest of high school.

And I think it only fed into what was already there as far as my psyche went that I was the screw-up. Like I was kind of the walking mistake. So yeah, for at least four-year span, I was on the straight and narrow. But then, after squashing everything down inside of you for all of that time, I still was friends with and liked this same girl that was in the church. And so we struck up another romance, but this time only holding hands, like no smooches. No, like we were trying to really keep it in bounds and do it in a godly way, so to speak.

We didn't view it like we're doing anything wrong. We're just trying to stay close to each other. He's now 19, by the way, for those who did better in English class. So this girl had come to my work during lunchtime. She worked at a fast food place across town, and the vehicle that she was driving actually belonged to my dad. So during this time frame, my dad was buying and selling cars on the side here and there to make some money. Like divine profits do. And he would write his phone number and a price on the window or whatever.

So she was kind of test driving it, she thought she might want to buy it. So she parked that at the building next door to where I'm working. Why do I feel like this story isn't going to end well? So we're sitting in my car and she sees a guy on a phone over by the car like looking at the number and like talking to somebody. So she's like oh shit like this dude's calling that number and telling Larry that this car is here which is next to where I work. So she ran over to tell him like no no you don't need to call the, you. to, you. to, you. to, you to call to call, you. to call, you. to call to call, you. to call, you, you, you, you, you, you to call, you to, to, to, to, the, to the, to the, the, the, the, and th. thi, and thi, and th. And, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and th. And, and, and, and, and, and, and th. And, and, and th. And, and th. And, and, and, and, and th. And, and th. And, th. And, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, th. th. th. th. thi, thi, thi, they, thi, thi, the. they, the. the. the. the. the. the. the. the. the. the. the. the. the and telling Larry that this car is here, which is next to where I work. So she ran over to tell him like, no, no, you don't need to call, but he was already on the phone with him.

And the guy hung up, and then her phone immediately rang. And then, you know, he tells her, I know where you are, bring my car back right now. And then after that phone call ends, my dad calls me. I just was saying like, yes sir, yes sir, yes sir. So he and somebody came and picked up my car. I have to walk home in the middle of summer and then when I do get home, mom and dad come up to my room to dress me down, but this time instead of it being anger-centric, it's more just sadness and you may be beyond God's reach.

And the evil young lady who dared to visit her boyfriend at lunch, what became of her fate? She was a little bit more independent at that point, obviously, than I was, and it wasn't very long from there that she was like completely out of the church and moved out from her parents house. Yeah she went to the world so to speak is the way we viewed it you know and I was trying to make my way back if possible, you know, through repentance. So just like that, their cute little romantic relationship ended once again at the hands of his lunatic father.

Hey, everyone, a special announcement this coming Thursday, July 18th, we will be doing a special live talk back with Maddie and Ashley on Zoom exclusively for our Patreon members. Yeah, so you can get on you can see us on Zoom and Maddie and Ashley and if you have any questions for them Or if you want to share some I don't know possible cannibalism recipes with Liz, please get on our Patreon to learn a little bit more. And you can even ask us some questions, so join Patreon to learn more and we'll also post it on our Instagram. When I was 19, I got my first job kind of working in the field.

I wanted to work in editing and shooting video. And I remit a girl that I had gone to school with. She showed up at a meeting that I was covering. And I remit her for the first time in about a decade. And so we hit it off and she's a Christian, you know, she's a Baptist, so that's a no-no. And so we kind of go through the same rigmarole again where I have this relationship with somebody that's not allowed. It's reinforcing again that I'm just a screw up, like I just cannot get any of this right.

We kind of are dating, but not really. She's confused because I'm not allowed to date and I won't meet her at restaurants and town, you know, that kind of thing. Like I'm trying to play it real safe. But she starts to come around to the church and eventually joins. And then we start another secret relationship when she's a member and then that gets blown up.

And from that point, I've kind of lost hope that I'm even like worth anything. And also, I have zero hope that I'm even worth anything, and also I have zero hope that I'm going to have any relationship with her. Like I had fallen love with her and then I'm thinking like this is never ever going to happen. So I like plunge into an extremely deep and dark depression from that point. Like I wanted to kill myself, thought about it regularly. Like I was just like, what's even the point? And that lasted for a while and kind of climbed out of that depression.

And I guess after I and she had kind of proven that we were repentant. We're asked if we want a court and we do and then we have a very short courtship and a very brief engagement and get married and now we've been married eight years. Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, slow down Maddie, don't jump to the end. Tease it out, which is what your Craigs List OBGYN said. The courtship was extremely strict. We had specific times that we could meet

and places that we could meet. We could eat lunch together during potluck at services on Saturday. My sister and brother-in-law were put in charge of our courtship to keep an eye on us and make sure we were doing everything up to code. And then we had a very brief engagement. And then even our engagement, I was instructed by my dad. It's not meant to be a romantic thing. Like don't hug or kiss her.

Don't get down on one knee. You just basically are like, here's a ring for you. Like you're presenting the ring and then that's supposed to be it. We got engaged on New Year's Eve and then married in April. So Maddie had finally found his love. But his father got weirder. So 2019 comes around, things really kicked up a notch at the church. I specifically remember my dad giving a message and it was about how we had all of these prophecies for years about

the special things that God was going to do at Crusade Church. But a lot of that had tapered off and the sermon was essentially just my dad saying like how disappointed he was that we had become lukewarm as a church and nothing was happening. But from that point, something changed specifically with my dad to where he started letting everyone know that God was waking him up in the middle of the night and was just talking directly to him, revealing all kinds of things and he shared stuff every single day. The Holy Spirit has been all over me and it just continues to grow.

Fill me, I can just feel it charged through me every day at moments every day and God's been speaking directly to me, three weeks straight, almost all the time. And then it slowly starts to come out that there's going to be this new new new new new new new this new new new new new new new new new new new new new new new new new new new new new new new new new new new new new new new new, this new, this new, this new, th..a, time. And then it slowly starts to come out that there's going to be this new love move that God is doing in Crusade Church that he's never done anywhere before. And the hallmarks of the move was it's not really love quote unquote but lots of extended periods of touching and hugging and holding each other and stroking hair and holding faces and staring deeply into eyes during very long Friday night praise and prayer services and we were being

given instructions about how to embrace each other. No, that's not creepy. It's not creepy at all. This is no this is creepy. This is normal stuff. How to embrace by a male cult leader. Wrap your arms around my people. We're talking about like people getting in other people's laps and stroking hair and just like it's kind of getting into a strange place, but it's hammered in every day that this is some special move that God is directing. And if you don't accept this fiery love that God is giving during this love move, then you're going to miss out.

God came to me in my sleep and told me that in order for you all to be saved, you need to embrace my day. So everybody, we're uncomfortable with it with what's going on, but we want to be part of this special move, right? So you've got people doing things that they would never do. Like dad would grab somebody and bring him to the middle and then go grab somebody else and bring him to the middle and like romantic slow dances with other members on the stage. The only thing missing here is boys to men's end of the road. You know the sad thing is as a kids today they don't slow dance ever. Yeah

they don't slow dance they grind. No they just pretend to have sex on the dance floor. Yeah and they don't slow dance and they miss out on the joy. The utter discomfort of hearing the opening strains of Richard Marx's right here waiting. And walking across the gym Florida, Becky Fox, whom you've had a crush on since elementary school and you mumble out, will you dance with me? And then you walk out to the middle and you put her arms around your waist and she puts her arms around to your shoulders

and then you swayed to step on her feet. Let the sweat from your palms drip on to her jeans. Meanwhile, your friends your their their their their their, your their, your, you, you, you, to, to, to, th, th, th, th, th, th, thoom, thoom, to, and, and, and thoom, and to, and to, and to, and to, and, and to, and to, and to, and to, and to, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and flipping you off and you sway back and forth until the song is over and then the boys go to one side and the girls go to the other. That's the beauty of slow dancing. He said that an arrow from the Lord came down looking for fire and it found that fire in my dad and then that fire was spreading to other people from there. We were instructed also that this love move cannot be stopped. It's going to get everybody. I remember

feeling like well if he's saying this can't be stopped well I'm I guess I'm just along for the ride. The Lord let me experience what it is to be a new bride. You know, I'm not worried about what I'm about to say, though it may be graphic. We're coming to the Lord, and if you can take it, beyond the veil is the chamber. That's the wedding chamber. The Lord told me that. Well, that wasn't very graphic, Larry. Coat leaders, full of broken promises.

Yeah, but when your dad claims God sent an arrow of fire directly to him, telling the people to slow dance with strangers in the name of a movement that's going to take over the world, it makes you think. It does. I genuinely wondered, even though I thought it might be blasphemous to even think? It does. I genuinely wondered even though I thought it might be blasphemous to even think it, I wondered like my dad has a brain tumor that's pressing on something or he's telling the truth and God's really saying and doing all these things. No comment. So a couple of examples I wanted to

share that kind of illustrate the level of delusion that my dad had during this love move. There was a Friday night service. All the lights are off and at the back of the stage, there's a table with some little tea candles. So at one point, one of the tea candles falls off of the table and does what a tea candle would do, kind of like dribbles down, you see a little bit of flame. it it this this this this this the floor the floor the floor the floor the floor th. It the floor it the floor it thoer the floor it goes the floor it goes the floor, it goes the floor, it goes the floor, it goes the floor, it goes the floor, it goes the the thoom tea candle would do, kind of like dribbles down, you see a little bit of flame, it's the floor, it goes out.

After that service, my dad is telling everyone that was fire from God from heaven falling to the stage. And in reality, we had a rat problem. So it's a rat that knocks over this tea candle onto the floor. And then you have my dad saying, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, th, th, th, th, th, th, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, tho, tho, tho, tho, the, the, it, it, it, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it, it, it, it's, it, the, the, the, the, the, the, than, t, tan, tan, tan, tan, tan, tan, tan, tan, ta, ta, ta, ta, ta, ta, ta, ta, ta, ta, ta, ta, ta, ta, ta, ta, ta rat that knocks over this tea candle onto the floor. And then you have my dad saying, nope, this is fire from heaven. And then another example, which I've got a million of these. So my dad was also convinced that there were high-ranking demons that were sent specifically to oppress our church and him trying to stop this special end-time ladder rain thing that God's doing at Crusade Church.

Dad was out, I guess, walking around at night, but he took a photo, which I have, I can share with you. He took a photo of a security light shining through some trees on like a pathway. It's like a normal photo and he's going around telling everyone like look at the demons in this photo, it's the Prince of Persia. Just examples like that for days where it's just like this person's not well, this isn't normal and if he's not well and he's this this is happening then what about all this love move stuff like what is happening with this? I wouldn't consider myself myself myself myself myself myself myself myself then then then th a thi thi thi the thi the thi the thi thus the thus thus the thus thus thus thus thus thus thus thus thus tho tho tho tho the thus the tho tho tho tho tho tho th. And he's like th. And he's like tho. And he's like tho. And he's like tho. th. th. th. And he's th. th. And he's th. And he's th. And he's th. th. And he's the the the the the the the the the the the the the the thi. thi. the. the. the. the. the. the. theeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeoo. I's thee. theooooooooo. the. the., then what about all this love move stuff? Like, what is happening with this? I wouldn't consider myself like a true believer of the love move, but I also didn't think

that it wasn't real. If that makes sense, like I know God's doing something, it just hasn't hit me just yet. But like I'm trying to play my part and do my thing. If it's a new thing for a people people people for a people for a people for a people for a people for a people for a people for a people for a people for a people for a people for a people for a people for a people for a people for a people for a people for a people for a people for a people for a people for a people to go forth with a fire that will consume the adversaries and will melt the hearts of sinners. That's a new thing. I say I accept it. I want it.

And I say, Lord, send me. Yeah, I think I'm going to sit this one out, Lord. Yeah, the Cubs are on actually they play today. So clearly things we're getting stranger and stranger. Yeah, the Cubs are on actually they play today. So catch me on the next fire melting sin slow dance dude Duda. So clearly things were getting stranger and stranger and Maddie was starting to question whether his dad was in fact a true profit or someone who was just mentally unwell. And then COVID comes around in 2020. And by this point my dad has received some dreams and revelations that's the devil is going to try to kill him. He assumed, he the the the the th. He th. He th. He th. He th. He th. He th. He th. He thu thu thu thu thu thu thu thu thu thu thu thu thu thu thu thu thu- thu thu thu- thu- thu- thu- thu- thu- thu-s. So, things, things, things, things, things, things, things, things. So, things, th. So, th. So, th. So th. So th. So th. So th. So th. So, th. So, thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi things things thi thi received some dreams and revelations that the devil is going to try to kill him. He assumed that COVID was one of the ways that the devil was going to try to kill him.

So he decided, okay, no more in-person services for the time being. So we all break from our regular services and heavy petting that we're doing every weekend. Looks like we've come to the end of the road. And we're doing kind of remote services, but everybody is kind of not being inundated with the same thing all the time. And that really allowed me and my wife to get some mental distance from what was going on. But when we came back to in-person services, my dad's thinking like we're going to pick it up right where we left and do the long heavy petting. But he can't let go. And my voice is so tired at this point, Rob. Hold on. Auto-tune it or something. And my voice is so tired at this point, Rob.

Hold on. Auto-tune it or something. Looks like we've come to the end of the road, but he can't let go. So I will, I do, I don't know boys to men. I would slow dance to men. I would slow dance to it. But by that point, like there are quite a few people, me included, who are like, yeah, I just don't, I don't know about this anymore, and things kind of start to crumble a little

little bit. But then there came a moment where my dad's kind of losing a little bit of control on people in the way that he's used to. So he invites one of the ministers from the church to talk about it at the house. And dad's trying to get this guy on his side about this issue and really starts laying on some flattery and all this kinds of stuff. And this gentleman had this moment where he even recognized the look in my dad's eye as narcissism. I'm seeing quite a bit more than that but proceed. It clicked for him. This person is trying to manipulate me right now and he said he knew from that point on like, oh, I got to go. And then he contacted a few people in the church and asked them to meet and kind of pointed

out what dad was trying to do and all of this love move, kind of really what that was. He let us know right off the bat that he was going to leave. And so then it was just a matter of like, what are we supposed to do now? So he leaves, and then that was like a bomb went off in the church. During this time, my sister and brother-in-law decide to leave, and that was also like a bomb went off, because that's family. And dad doesn't understand what's going on, but we kind of do. But mom is like keeping it together with everything that's going on. And dad during this time is also dictating to mom all of these direct revelations from God and she's writing

them down in a book like she's in the middle of this whole thing. Like she's under an amazing amount of stress and she has this seizure and the reason she had those seizures were due to stress from the inappropriate relationships that dad was having with certain women in the church with the heavy petting and the whole bit. But whoa, whoa, wait, what about the fire arrow? You mean it was just an excuse to be a super creep? Come on man, you're playing the part all too well. Like once you put those pieces together, having known my dad my whole life,

there was no unflipping that switch and I can't undo it. So what do I do now? I can't stay in the church that he's leading because it's not just he's a pastor of the church. He's directing crazy shit now. So I can't stay because I know all of it is nonsense. Like he's out of his mind. So it wasn't very long after mom seizures that Liz and I decided like we're, we're gonna go, we just gotta figure out how. Hey, Mandy, I like your wife's name. So the date that we decided was gonna be our last, it was August 15th of 2020.

And after services, I did my usual routine, which is I took the recordings of the sermon and sermonets, and I edited those and uploaded them to YouTube and got all that done. I drafted kind of a note slash letter to my mom and dad. I also drafted a post into the church Facebook group that everybody was in and then send it to the group and then Liz and I went home and then just like cried in heaps on the floor for a couple hours. Because you know, that's all I had known and then that's all Liz had known for years. Yeah.

So my dad called me that night, and it was very matter of fact. I answered the phone and he said, well, I guess the church is done, so, you know, what are you going to do? You're going to go to another church? And I remember I just said, I don't know. And there was a longest pause. And he just said, okay. And then that was the end of the phone call, and that was one of the last two times I've spoken to him since then.

But that, really, that day was when it all just like shattered and fell apart and everybody just kind of went their own separate ways and are dealing with their trauma from that now and will be for a long time. Because nobody wants to think that they were in a cult. And you know it sounds dramatic too when you're like hey I was in a cult. Oh, okay, sure. But like a big part for me and kind of accepting that it was a cult. their their their their their their their th.. their own own own own own own own own own own own own own own own separate separate separate separate separate separate separate their their own their own separate separate separate separate their own their own separate separate separate separate.......... It's their own separate separate separate separate separate separate. It's th. It's their own separate separate separate separate separate. It's their own separate separate separate separate separate. their own separate separate. their own separate. their own. their own. It's their own. It's their own. It's their th. It's th. It's th. It's th. It's their own own own own their own their own their own their own their own their own their own their own their own their own their own their own their own separate. We. It's th. It's their own separate. It's their own separate. It's their their own separate. It's their own separate. It's their own hey, I was in a cult. So, oh, okay, sure. But like a big part for me in kind of accepting that it was a cult was watching cult cult documentaries, which I always liked, which is ironic, but watching those and finding

a million parallels to what we experienced. But not everyone immediately left the church. You know, my mom was in a really weird spot and kind of stuck with him, but then she's loyal to dad. She's been married to him for nearly 50 years. But it eventually reached a breaking point, and thankfully, his mom finally left. It was a while before she moved out of there and in with me for a time until she kind of got on her feet and got her own place.

But it was a longer transition for her, which I can understand why. So now my mom is out of that influence. I guess is the best way to put it, doesn't have to deal with that anymore. But I still see her on the regular and we have a good relationship, so I'm happy about that. So Maddie is finally out of the grips of his father. And as he's in the process of deprogramming from all his father's bullshit, he realizes perhaps that not all was as it seemed. So after we made the break from Crusade and from Dad, I immediately started to think back on things in my life and things that dad had said and done

and one of those immediately was, okay if dad is out of his mind with this stuff and I know how he treated me and other people, what exactly did Ashley do that warranted her to be kicked out of the family? For me I just began to realize like you know what I don't think that she actually did anything wrong. It was 25 plus years or somewhere around there that we didn't really see or interact with her and I we just wanted to reconnect with Ashley and try to make up for lost time if we could from there. So as we may recall from Ashley's episode Maddie's wife Liz was the first th. was the first the first th. was the first th, th, th, the first th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, the first th, th, th, th, th, th, thi thi, thi to to to to to thi, to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to th, to th, th, the the the thi thi the the the the the the the the thee an the an the an thee an the an the an the an to to to to to to tory to make up for lost time if we could from there. So as we may recall from Ashley's episode, Maddie's wife Liz was the first

one to initiate contact with Ashley. She sent her a friend request. And well the rest is thankfully history. We met at Ashley's house a couple hours away from where we all lived and it was just like a weepathon. Everybody's just crying. Because, you know, none of us, especially Ashley, never thought that that would ever happen again. And as I've gotten to know her more over the last three and a half years, she's one of the best people I know.

One of the most moral people I know. And just to see that kind of contrast between what we were presented thaaa to see that kind of contrast between what we were presented and who she is. It's just like, it makes you mad, but also you just understand how easily you can be influenced when you're under someone's thumb like we were. My brother-in-law said something to me the other day that I thought was just spot-on, which is that you would never wish somebody to be in a cult, obviously. But you also wouldn't wish someone to have to leave a cult. Our entire family system is rooted in this.

All my social interactions were based in this cult. That makes for a painful transition, but that pain to me feels more like growing pains and not to be cliche, but I genuinely feel like these past few years I have been finding myself. That's a strange thing to say when you're 35 years old, but the way I look at that is just it's better now than never. My wife Liz and I were very fortunate that we ended up on the same page about leaving and where we want to go and who we want to be and how we want to live. Getting away from that influence has changed our lives in some

amazing ways over the past four years. It feels like I was handed a pair of glasses at birth that just distorted how I saw the world and interacted with it and it feels like I've finally been able to take those off. And I feel free to live a genuine life for the first time ever. And to me, that's worth every bit of the pain. Today Maddie and his sister Ashley host a podcast where they recounted their upbringing and quite moving in cathartic ways. It's called the cult next door and it is available wherever you get your podcasts. You know I really enjoyed them. They were such lovely people to talk with. They were warm, they were open and then you can just tell they have

really big hearts. So it just goes to show cult leaders can take a lot from you. But they can't take your spirit. Thank you Madie they they their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their is is is their their their their their their. their. their. their their their their t. t. tooooooooooooooooooo. to. to. to. to. to. to. to. their their their their is their to show. Cult leaders can take a lot from you, but they can't take your spirit. Thank you, Maddie, for sharing your story with us today. It was great to have you here on the show. And we're happy you found peace and a life that works for you today. I didn't get the chance to meet your wife Maddie, but she sounds great too. That's our show for today. Thanks for listening. And thank you for sharing this show with your friends and supporting us as well. Special shout out to Jessica Davisport or Davis Fort, I don't know how to pronounce it,

and Jess McCauley, our two newest Patron members. And remember, if you want to join us Thursday for the live talk back with our guest, Maddie and Ashley, Thursday, July July 18th exclusively for our patron members so join Patreon and learn more about it there Yeah and if you join you also get a special seat in the celestial kingdom bathed in glory oh yes they do well that's a duck we'll be back next week guys with a story I'm personally very excited about I have been waiting for a Beakrum cult story and this woman she studied with Beakrum, you know Beakram of Beakram Molester Yoga. Yeah if you can't tell I despise this man. The first thing that we did he was like we're gonna pass the mic around and

everyone's going to introduce themselves and he said my hand to God. he was like talk about you know where you went to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to the the the to to the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the trucrum. the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the theselves. And he said, my hand to God, he was like, talk about, you know, where you went to school, where you're from, how many times you've been raped. And I just remember feeling like there was just a glitch in the Matrix. Like, did he just fucking say that? Do you just make a rape joke on day one? The first 15 minutes of meeting us?

Was I in a cult? Question mark is written produced and hosted by me, Tyler, the fire profit mesam. And me, Liz, me Liz love moving Iakuzzi. Audio edit by Rob Christian Cover Band Parra. Executive producer is Stephen Cannibalism Labram. Hashtag bring back the slow dance. That's our show guys. Join us on Patreon where we promise to meet and greet and eat you. That is weird. We are done with the cannibalism

jokes. Good night. Thanks everyone. Wrap it up. Take out your life. Purify me. Cannibalism. Yeah, sure, why not? Yeah, sounds fun. Cannibalism. Yeah, I guess, sure. Yeah, I guess. Sure. Yeah, why not? I'll try. Cannibalism. Yeah, why not? I'll try. Cannibalism. A social event where you're really getting to know someone. Cannibalism, solving hunger and homelessness. And one fail swoop. Cannibalism, save money on a meal.

Cannibalism, women and children first. Cannibalism, finding experience that's people-centric. Cannibalism, cheaper than olive Garden, but without unlimited breadsticks. Cannibalism, darn I, do I have a bone to pick with you. That's pretty good. That's pretty good. Cannibalism. Eat your heart out. No.

Nope. That's it. No more. No more cannibalism jokes. No more. No more cannibalism jokes. No. Cannibalism. Mmm.