Was I In A Cult? - Zendik Farm: "Mating in Captivity"

Episode Date: March 27, 2023

Imagine having to ask a group of eco-farmers for permission to have sex. And when granted permission, your options of consummation include… the back of a van or the loft of a goat barn. Well that's what happened when Helen Zuman, a spelling bee whiz looking to explore her interest in eco-farming, visited Zendik Farm in North Carolina shortly after graduating from Harvard. A two-week experience turned into years of her life. And that, ladies and gentlemen, is how you spell C-U-L-T. - Support Was I In A Cult? on Patreon for goodies, extra content, and a chance to win a signed copy of Helen's book: Mating in Captivity! Follow us on Instagram: @wasiinacult Contact us: Have a cult story of your own and want to share it on our show? Send us an email at [e-mail]. MORE ABOUT HELEN: https://helenzuman.com/ Find her book, Mating In Captivity, HERE.Follow Helen: Twitter - @HelenZuman // Instagram - @helenzuman

Please note, this episode contains sexual content and discussions about sex. Listen accordingly. Being higher up in the hierarchy, well, that meant you had access to a flush toilet, better food, and, you know, better sexual access. I remember, at one point, setting myself the goal of having sex with every man on the farm. Welcome to Wazana Cult. I'm your host, Liz Ayacuzzi. And I am also your host, Tyler Miesum. Therefore, you are my co-host. No, Liz. you're my co-t. I'm your host Liz Ayacuzzi. And I am also your host

Tyler Miesum. Therefore you are my co-host. No Liz, you're my co-host. Tomato tomato, Tomato, Tyler. It's actually Tomato is how it's pronounced, Liz. So guys, today's guest was a particularly fascinating interview. They all are, naturally. Yes, of course, but one particular reason I wanted to interview this person was. There, there. There, there, there, there, there, there, the there, the the there, there, the their, their, th. There, th. There, the, there, the, there, there, there, there, there, there, there, there, there, thi, there, there, there, there, there, there, there, there, there, there, there, there, there, there, there, there, there, there, there, there, there, there, there, there, there, there, there, there, there, there, there, there, there, there, th. Therefore, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the. Therefore, the. Therefore, the. Therefore, the. Therefore, the. Therefore, the. Therefore, the. Therefore, the. Therefore, the. Therefore, the. Therefore, the. Therefore, are, naturally. Yes, of course, but one particular reason I wanted to interview this person was because of her sex-controlled environment that she found herself in? No, not because of that. Because on this show, not only do we have incredibly brave and inspiring people, vulnerably sharing their success stories with us. But through our specific storytelling technique, we aim to debunk many of the stereotypes about cults and those who end up in them th them th them th them th them th them th them th them th them th them th...... th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, because, because, because, because, because, because, because, because, because, because, because, because th. Because th. Because, because th. Because, th. Because, th. Because, th. Because, th. Because, th. Because, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, because, their, we aim to debunk many of the stereotypes

about cults and those who end up in them. And one very common misunderstanding about people who wind up in cults is that they are dumb, purposeless, gullible idiots. Not necessarily in that order. No, in that exact order. So, with that assumption, how in the world does a straight-day student Harvard graduate wind up in a cult? Hmm, let's find out, shall we? Don't spare my life. Crucify. My name is Helen Zuman. I live in Beacon, New York, in the Hudson Valley just north of New York City.

I grew up in Park Slope with two siblings and with my mother and father. At the time, Park Slope was not the coveted mini Manhattan that it is now. I would say we were misfits, we were outliers. All three of us were super smart at the tops of our classes. Every year in my school there was a school spelling bee and usually usually an eighth grader would win, or at least seventh grader. But I won in fifth grade. And just for fun, what was the hardest word in the spelling bee that you had to spell? Do you remember?

Well, I don't know about the hardest word, but I remember the word that I misspelled in the diocesan spelling bee in sixth grade, and it was because I was not familiar with the word and I didn't hear it correctly. Okay, the word was profiterol and I've heard profitero so I elided the L and I lost. Profiterol noun, a French and Italian pastry ball with a typically sweet and moist filling of whipped cream, custard or pastry cream. Profideral. So, like a cream puff? Yeah, I suppose, like a cream puff.

So why didn't you just say cream puff? Did you just say cream? I don't know, because then I would be able to say sweet and moist filling. I have always had a really good relationship with my mother. She was always going to come through and make sure that we had what we needed no matter what. And my father was kind of the opposite. He didn't seem really that excited about having children. Like he was much better at relating to kids once they turned into adults.

And he was also an alcoholic. My second year of high school, they got the worst. And yeah, I was just, I was delighted to be free of his presence. And like many high school girls, one thing that kept Helen's mind occupied was boys. She was totally boy crazy. So in New York City, you basically had hundreds of choices of where to go to high school. So regardless of academia, Helen chose the school that she thought would quench her boy thirst the most. I chose to go to a Catholic all-girls school on the Upper East Side.

I had fantasies about like getting a boyfriend who went to the all-boys Catholic school nearby. When I first got there, I thought I was going to have friends and go to dances and meet boys and so on. And it didn't work out. So I'm going to go, I'm going to go to what I know. I'm going to go to getting the best grades that I possibly can. I did well in my classes and I got straight A's. Because unlike dumb teenage boys, Calculus never ghosts you. Ah, but Geometry, on the other hand, is a total dick. Do not date Geometry.

Fuck you, Geometry. I'm never calling you back. And when she graduated, there was only one place she wanted to go to college. Somewhere she had decided upon a long time prior. So when I was six years old I decided I was going to go to Harvard. So she applied. And with her excellent grades and volunteer work. And above average spelling skills, she was accepted into the most prestigious university in the world. Harvard. I just thought it was going to be perfect and of course it wasn't. I kind of felt like the place belonged to the rich kids, you know, the prep school kids and you know once again I felt kind of a misfit. I was

also just very awkward and very shy. She was living a life enviable of most kids her age. But one thing was still missing. A lover boy. Oh lover boy. Hey lover boy. She had gone through all of high school without a boyfriend. But in college the desire was still there, if not even more so. I had crushes that went nowhere at all. I was kind of like I don't know what I'm doing here. So probably through my first semester I did consider leaving. I think I was really lucky to land in the art department because it was one of the least pretentious places at Harvard.

Oh yeah, art is way more bangable than geometry. Nice choice, Helen. Academically, Helen did very well in college, but she realized. I was just wanting to fast forward to the part where college was over and I could for the first time in my life do whatever I wanted. And I absolutely did not want a job. I did not have any career aspirations. But before graduating, a teacher recommended she apply for a fellowship.

This traveling fellowship where you get a chunk of money and then you can do whatever you want with it. I wanted to go learn about homesteading, learn about food growing and home building. And just, like, what if growing food could also be an art form? That's basically what I proposed. So I applied for the grant for the fellowship and I got this chunk of money. It was $13,500. It was just supposed to fund my exploration.. to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to the their their to to to to to their to their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their the the their the the the the the the their theirf.00.00.00. I. I. I. I. I. I heck. I want the the the thoomeck. I wanted thoomexxxxxxembe, tooomeck. Homefoomeck. Ifoomeck. Ifoomeck. I wanted to go go goeck. I got this chunk of money. It was $13,500. It was just supposed to fund my explorations. I think the day before graduation I shaved my head.

I was like, I'm going to be out in the road. I don't want to worry about having to make sure my hair is washed. And I set out searching for my place to be. Her intent was to go to a small, planned agricultural eco-community, sometimes known as agro-communities, where individuals live on and maintain the land. And there were dozens of these communities located throughout the country. She tried a couple of places first. Theat thrown the land. She tried a couple of places first. and maintain the land. And there were dozens of these communities located throughout the country. She tried a couple of places first.

This like hippie farm in Oregon, they just didn't know what to do with me. They told me to go sit in the garden and give it my love energy. I was like, what the fuck is that. Shockinglyingly, no, to visit Gannis, which was a community in Staten Island, and I just wasn't impressed, again, like dearth of hot guys, just not super attracted to me. So then I came back home to Brooklyn in,

I guess it was the late summer of 99. In my travels out west, I had gotten some ideas about what I didn't want. I wanted a place that actually wanted new people, and I wanted a place that was like organized enough to know what to do with me when I showed up. This was pre-Gougal days, so instead she had a large directory filled with all of the communities in the U.S. So then I was looking through the community's directory and this one time I was like, you know, I'm going to go to the back of the book and I'm going to start with the V's. I found Zendik Farm, I read their listing.

The Zendik said they had the lowest average age of any community in the world, you know, being around all these young people. that, that, that, th. th. th. th. th. th. the the their, their, their, their, their, thi. thi. their, thi, their, thi, their, their, their, their, their, their, I was, I was, their, their, I was, I was, I was, I was, I was, I was, I was, I was, I was, I was, I was, I was, I was, I was, I was, I was, I was, I was, I I I. I I. I I I I. I. I I I. I I. I, I, I, I. I. I, I. I. I was, I. I was, the the the the the the the the th th the thin. I'm, the th the th the the t the t t t the t t t t t t t t t t t t the t t t t t t t they knew what to do with people when they arrived and that they wanted new people. It also said that they also did art. So it sounded great and I decided to go to Zendick. I took the bus to Hendersonville, North Carolina. These two people picked me up in a little car to drive me back to the bus to Hendersonville, North Carolina. These two people picked me up in a little car to drive me back to the farm. For a while we were just, you know, traveling on highways. The paved roads, you know, turned into dirt roads. There was lots of forest when we first got in the farm's property. It was basically in the middle of nowhere. I would say first red flag, but, you know, Bernie man is also in the middle of nowhere. I would say first red flag, but you know Burning Man is also in the middle of nowhere and that doesn't

seem to stop people from going year after year after year after year. You know Burning Man I just have no desire. It just seems really dusty. Don't even go there. We don't want to piss our burners off. All right, fair. So the place was called Zendik Farm and the piss our burners off. All right, fair. So the place was called Zendik Farm, and the people who lived there were called Zendix. It was 116 acres. There was a horse barn and a goat barn across from each other,

all these sort of old weathered wooden structures. There was the farm house, which was also pretty old, but had been refurbished. That first night, I remember sitting on the floor in the farm, the farm, which was like the main gathering space in the farm. There were probably, you know, 40 or so people in this one living room, like sitting on couches and chairs and sitting on the floor. And this woman came into the living room and another woman asked her if she was having a a the date the date the date the date the date the date the date the date the date the date the date the date the date the floor. And this woman came into the living room and another

woman asked her if she was having a date that night. The woman being asked was like, oh yeah I am. And she had a bowl of food in her hand. And I was like, well that's weird. She's going on a date, which I thought meant you go out to dinner and you go to a movie, but she's eating food. File that little tidbit away for later, dear listeners. File that hard, real hard. I noticed that there was this loft above the main part in the living room that, like, it had all these, I don't know, scarves or brightly colored pieces of fabric hanging

over the railing, and it looked really inviting up there. It turned out that's where like many of the women on the farm, you know, that's where they slept. Meanwhile, I was staying in a plywood box at the back of the horse barn loft with all the other new people who happened to be men. So I had this urge for belonging. You know, I was like, I want to sleep in the loft in the farmhouse, in, in, in, in, in the the farm, in the farm, in the farm, in the farm, in the farm, in the farm, in the farm, in the farm, in the farmhouse, in the farmhouse, in the farmhouse, in the farmhouse, in the farmhouse, the farmhouse, the farmhouse, the farm house, the farm, the I had this urge for belonging. You know, I was like, I want to sleep in the loft in the farmhouse with the women. I'm sure the men had that same thought.

When I first arrived, I was impressed by the people, but skeptical of the idea that what they were doing was world changing. There were about 60 or 70 people there at the time. A lot of them were around my age. I was 22 when I arrived. I was sort of immediately impressed by their earthiness and their ruggedness. And their attractive toe,. I mean the women were all really attractive, they were like in good shape. They mostly wore tie-died shirts with like pretty low-cut

necks. It was common for Zenic women's like cut the necks out of their t-shirts so there was fair amount of cleavage visible. The men were for the most part really good looking, especially the ones who had really good looking, especially the ones who had been there for a while and kind of spent a lot of time outdoors doing physical work and they all like were car hearts and had farmer tans and carry tools around with them. Hot, sweaty, once a week showering farm boys at your service, Madame Helen. But above the looks the group also had an enticing way about them.

They just seemed to have what I wanted in a way, you know. They had like certainty that they were doing something very important with their life. Supposedly, Zennik was starting a revolution to save the planet from Ecoside. Spell it, Tyler. ECOCIDE.C-O-C-O-C-I-D-D-E.E.C, the planet from Ecoside. Spell it, Tyler. EcoC-O-C-I-D-E. Correct. C-I-D-E from Latin, meaning to kill, as in insecticide, genocide,

what's that? The killing of one's parents. Wow, that's dark, Tyler. I was going to go with verbiaside. And what does that mean, Liz? to murder the shit the shit the shit the shit the And what does that mean Liz? To murder the shit out of a word. Use it in a sentence please. Cult leaders have a particular knack for committing verbicide. The word eco-side is a combining form, eco-site, eco-site, eco-for habitat or environment and side as we just learned means killing. Ecocideide, essentially killing of the environment.

It was legally defined in 2021 as unlawful acts committed with knowledge that there is substantial likelihood of severe and long-term or widespread damage to the environment being caused by those acts. Like air or plastic pollution, overfishing, etc. The way to save the planet from Ecoside was to create a new culture based on honesty and cooperation. And to create this honest, cooperative culture, we needed to cut through our death culture bullshit.

I'm sorry, your death culture? So the death culture was our term for the outside world. We also called it the suicide. Second red flag. Maybe third. When they all referred to themselves as Xendex, that was pretty yellow to red flaggy to me. I've talked about feeling like a misfit in other contexts.

And what Zendik was saying was you might feel like you don't belong in the outside world because you're fucked up, but actually, it's the whole death culture that's totally fucked up. You totally make sense. So that was very attractive to me. So who ran this environment-saving farm? When I first met Errol, the female leader of the farm, it might have been the first morning I was at the farm or the second morning was pretty early on. She just came into the living room when I was there and sat down across from me and started

talking to me. She's like, you're the Harvard room when I was there and sat down across from me and started talking to me. She's like, you're the Harvard chick, right? And I was like, yeah, she talked some shit about New York City, we were both from there. And then she said something to me, like, you know, you have to be smart to make it here, but you also have to put your heart in it. Do you think you can do that? And, of of, th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th thi of thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi. thi's thi's thi's thro thi. thi's like, thi. thi. thi. the their, the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the their, their their, their, their their, their, their their their, their their their, their thr. throwne. throooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooome. tieuu. the. th put your heart in it. Do you think you can do that? And of course I was like, well, I'm definitely going to try, since you seem to think I can't. There was sort of this challenge in there that really worked for me, because I was competitive. I didn't want to win. So how does a farming community go about saving the world from ecocide?

In the first couple weeks, basically I was put on work crews. Like, I remember helping a crew of women dig a ditch. I remember raking leaves. So I, you know, be on some kind of work crew in the morning. Then have lunch with everybody in the farmhouse living room, more work in the afternoon. And of course meetings. They had meetings for everything, and one, unsurprisingly, was quite similar to a group therapy session. They called them Living Therapy Meetings where it was therapy that was happening like all the time. We would be giving

each other input, like useful information about what you're doing, how it's harming you, how your life can be better. The purpose of the living therapy meetings was supposedly to improve us and speed our evolution. I mean in reality I think it was just to, you know, keep us all in line. There were sex meetings. Yep, you heard that right. It was sort of a Q&A format. So this guy, Zoe, who was kind of the farm's alpha male, you know, he would ask if

anybody had any questions, and then, you know, people would raise their hands and Ask their question about sex and then Zoe or one of the other family members would you know would answer the question Later on, there was a different version of a sex meeting where anyone could volunteer to have their sexuality critiqued by their current and former sexual partner. Which is what everyone dreams about, right? Having your bedroom activity critiqued by a former lover in a group setting. Oh my dear fucking God. CIA, take notes. That is top-level torture right there.

Can you even imagine that, Tyler? No, I can't. I don't. I don't even like to see ex-lovers at parties. Up until now, this is just sort of a weird environment with some strange rules, but I know you've labeled and quantified this in some things as a sex cult, but... But... No, I don't call it a sex cult. I don't think the term sex cult is valid. It had some sexual elements that were atypical. Yeah, absolutely.

So going back to my puzzlement that first night over the woman with the bowl of food who was going on a date. So I think it was, might have been my first full day at the farm. I was upstairs in the new building, the addition, working with another woman to paint these shelves. And she asked me if anyone had told me how dating worked. And I was like, no, of course not. How she explained it was that the usual way of finding a romantic or sexual partner, like at a bar or in some pickup scene, was, you know, it was all bullshit.

So at Zendick, we were doing this in this very authentic, honest way. The deal was that there were a couple women who were dating Straders. Strader was short for Administrator and they were in charge of setting up assignations between individuals on the farm. You had to use these go-betweens to set up these sexual and romantic experiences. So, if I was attracted to a guy, I would ask one of the straighters to, quote, hit him up for a walk or a date on my behalf. You could actually be going on a walk, but a walk meant that you were getting together and hanging out with each other and maybe making out, but not having sex.

A date meant that you were having sex, you know, vaginal or oral, that you were taking your clothes off, that you were going someplace private. So a hang potentially meant third base. But a date meant sex. And it wasn't a maybe, it was expected. But on the farm, there was no sex allowed in the sleeping quarters. So where did these quote dates occur? There were a few dedicated dates space, which that, that, that, that, that that that that that that that you that that you th th th th th th th th thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi that you were that you were that you were that you were that you were that you were thi thi thi thi thi thi thi th. th. th. th. th th. th th th th th th. th. th you th. th. th. th. th. thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thate thate thate thateeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeaa. thateeeeeeeeeeeeee. the the ththe sleeping quarters. So where did these quote dates occur? There were a few dedicated dates face which were just these tiny wooden buildings with a double bed and a nightstand, a roll of toilet paper, a lamp, maybe a heater, that was a date space.

If the date spaces were full, then you might put a mattress in the back of a van or go to like the goat barn lost or the library or out in the field. Oh that definitely makes sense in the global fight against Ecoside. Which brings us to the leaders of this joint. I mean who came up with these rules? So Wolf and Errol started the farm in 1969 in California. They were bohemian counterculture artist types and they thought if they got a bunch of artists together, life would be easier for everyone. They were also thinking about, like about the problems with monogamy. Wolf thought that if people were living in a group,

it would be easier for everybody to be honest with each other. I mean, I think that one of Wolf's motivations from pretty early on was to have sex with a lot of different people. So it had nothing to do with saving the world from fracking. That's disappointing, Wolfie. with a lot of different people. So it had nothing to do with saving the world from fracking. That's disappointing, Wolfie. When their daughter, Fawn, was born in 1976, then Wolf came up with the idea of cosmic responsibility.

I think he considered himself a philosopher. I would think he considered himself a revolutionary. He would say that, you know, we're starting a revolution to save the earth. I mean, he saw himself as a savior. Still not seeing the save the earth piece, Mr. Genius, but I will let you prove me wrong, sir. Wolf died in 1999, and his wife, Errol, took over the farm, years prior to Helen's arrival. Now, some people don't really understand how cults work. Getting fully in is a slow process,

and often the original plan is meant to be a short-lived experience. For example, signing up for a four-week course. So for Helen... You know, when I first came, I thought I was going to, like, I would stay for two weeks, maybe, and if I didn't like it there, I would go hike the Appalachian Trail. But as the days were on, and I kind of became more enamored of the people and more convinced that something really special was going on here, I started to ask myself if I wanted to stay. I mean one aspect of that was all these these women at the farm, like they were all like physically fit and

like sexy and sort of had this like matcha air and I was like oh if I stay here I could be like them. I also thought yeah like if like if I stayed, I could absolutely solve my romantic problems by Zenniks just making sex a part of everyday life. I thought that Zennik was the place where I could have a lasting, honest relationship with a man. This was the place I could find true love. And save the planet, of course. But saving the planet, it comes with a price. Eventually anyone who decided to stay to stay for life was going to hand over whatever

money they had and your car. If you're committed to the revolution and you plan to stay for life, why wouldn't you hand over your money in your car because you don't need them anymore? Now remember, Helen was only at this farm because of a grant she won. Thirteen thousand five hundred sweet dollars to spend toward whatever she would like, hopefully on something to further her academic interests. By the time I arrived, I had about 13,000 left because I had been very frugal. I had even eaten the trail mix and slept in ditches to save money in my travels.

People knew that I had the money. I hadn't kept that a secret. But Helen, she didn't come from the preppy rich background, like many of her Harvard contemporaries. I didn't know how to have money. It wasn't part of my identity. So I wanted to get rid of it. And then there was also just this sense that if I did give the money,

it would help me in my quest for belonging. It would also separate me from the new guys and like prove that I'm more committed than they are. So all of that went into my decision to hand over the money. And with pressure from the group she handed over her grant money to the farm. And with that she was saying I'm staying for life and I don't need money anymore. It's the fall of 2017 in Rancho Tahoma, California. A man and his wife are driving to a doctor's appointment when another car crashes into them, sending them flying off the road.

It's the fall of 2017, they stumble out of the car only to hear dozens of gunshots. their shots thrown their Disoriented, they stumble out of the car only to hear dozens of gunshots whizzing past them. This is just a chapter of a much larger nightmare unraveling in their small town. The podcast, This Is Actually Happening, Presents a Special Limited Series called Point Blank, shedding a light on the forgotten spree killings of Rancho Tahama,

where a lone gunman devastated the their their their their their the forgotten spree killings of Rancho Tahoma, where a lone gunman devastated a small town, attacking eight different locations in the span of only 25 minutes. Overshadowed by the Las Vegas shooting that dominated the headlines just weeks earlier, this small community quickly faded from view and was left alone to pick up the pieces. The series follows five stories of people connected to the incident, from a father that drew the gunmen away from the local school to to to to to to the s ss the ss the ss the sister,, the sister, the sister, the sister, the sister, to the incident, from a father that drew the gunmen away from the local school to the sister of the shooter. These are riveting stories that will stick with you long after you listen. For me, personally, I love the documentary style format of the show.

It's not just a host reading a script, but its first-person accounts with the people that were actually there. Yeah, the show is very well done, and the stories do always keep me wondering, what is actually happening? Follow, this is actually happening wherever you listen to podcasts. You can listen, ad-free on the Zendix moved her up in the group fairly quickly. No more sleeping in that plywood box at the end of the horse barn. No sir, Helen was upgraded to the loft in the farmhouse.

Sweet. A $13,000 luxury suite, no doubt. Am I right? There were hand-bunks made out of... It was like usually a sheet of plywood with two-by-fours for legs and a very thin mattress. I would store my belongings like under my bed or if you were in the top bunk you had like a couple potato crates, you know, nail to the ceiling where you could put your belongings. And a number of peopleto the ceiling where you could put your belongings. And a number of people in the room ranged from maybe like six to maybe like 12 or 15.

And there was never very much privacy. Okay, so living conditions were still subpar. But maybe they had like a dope master bath or something with like a saltwater float pool and a cold plunge attached. Wrong again. I would get up pretty early maybe around 7 a.m. I would walk down the trail to the outhouse, you know, for my early morning poop and then go out on whatever work crew I was assigned to for the day that could be like building a rock wall, you know, it could be milking

the goats. Then sometimes there were meetings at lunchtime, afternoon were work, and then, you know, an evening we'd have dinner all together. And then nighttime was pretty much always the time to go on date. Then the other kind of day was a day on the road when we were out on selling trips, out on City Streets or at concerts or festivals, selling our magazines and music and t-shirts and bumper stickers to make money to support the farm. You'd all get in the van and everybody would

count their money and announce their number. And of course, if it was a good number, it felt amazing. And if it was a bad number, uh-oh, because then the next morning on the phone call home, you were going to get reported and get input. And as she became more involved in the activities on the farm, the outside world and her past slipped further into the rearview mirror. The only telephone I had access to was in the farmhouse living room which was like the social center of the farm so it wasn't possible to have a conversation with someone in the outside world where I could be like, you know what this place is kind of interesting

but it's also kind of fucked up. But she did occasionally call her mother. When I talked to her on the phone, I would just bullshit her, like, oh, this goathead babies! And we want on this great selling trip. I certainly wasn't being honest with her. She came to visit me the first time, she was basically like, what's a bunch of hippieieieieiefiefiefiefiefiefiefied to to to be to be to be to be to be to be to be to do she's to do she's to do she's to do she's to do she's to do she's to do she's to do to do to do to do to to to to me. to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to me. to me. to me. to me to me. to me. to me. to me. to me. to me. to me. to to to to to to to to to me. I I I I I I I I I I to to to to to to to to to to me. I to me. to me. to to to the the the the the the to the th. the th. th. to the to th. to to to the to to the to to to to to to to to to to to me. to to me me twice. When she came to visit me the first time, she was basically like, what's a bunch of hippie shitting in the woods going to do for the planet? Come on, mom, Wolfie's got it under control. Coerced date sex is definitely helping our global

emissions problems. Don't you see? Of course, I got very defensive and thought, oh well, she's of the death culture. Later on, she started getting worried, and she had friends telling her she ought to go down to North Carolina and pull me out of that cult, and she said that she decided that she was going to just let me do what I did and make sure that I knew that she was there for me. So she did, I believe, she did absolutely the best thing she could have done,

not trying to pull me out and not being super critical of the farm. But her mother wasn't the only one thinking it was a cult. People on the street would say you're a cult. And then we would be like, ha ha, we all sleep with our dead guru and we eat babies for breakfast. So just like, oh well, of course they're just trying to knock us down because they're of the death culture and if they can call us a cult, then they can stay on the couch and continue to not do anything about the fact that the world is dying. When I first got there, I didn't know that there was a hierarchy. Spell hierarchy. I know it's I before E except after C, so it's H, I, E, R, A, A, A, A, C, H, Y, A, C, Y, H, Y, A, C, Y, H, Y, C, Y, and, and...

No? Did I get it wrong? You added an A. I failed hierarchy. The hierarchy is Tyler's at the bottom of it. I actually didn't find out about it until I had been at the farm for a couple weeks and it wasn't because someone volunteered the information. It was because another new person said to me, hey, Helen, like, you know those wristbands that they all wear?

That signifies what level people are at. The people at the top got more resources than people at the bottom, got less. Being higher up in the hierarchy, that meant better living conditions usually, including access to a flush toilet, better food, like having people respect you more, and you know, better sexual access. Like the higher up you were, the more likely people were to want to have sex with you. But when you arrived to the farm, had you had sex before? No, I had not had sex before I arrived in the farm.

So was your first sexual encounter one of these dates? Yes, it was around, I think it was February of the year 2000 after I had been at the farm three or four months and I had had a bunch of dates with Crowe and I really liked him and it was very good between us. Crow was another Zendick and it was the first guy on the farm Helen had fallen for. Now on their hangouts, they had just fooled around. I decided I wanted to have actual sex with him for my first time, but by that time, I knew I couldn't just do that. Like I knew I had to get permission, because it was a big deal. So, like mostgins, she had to bring it up in your run-of-the-mill sex meeting.

She had to ask Zoe, the alpha male, for permission. And I didn't want to do that. I absolutely did not want to ask this guy for permission to have sex in front of the whole group of people, but that was what I had to do. So the meeting happened and this other guy went first and he was all sexually frustrated and he was like having had sex in nine months and you know what's going on and then he kind of got his input about what his problem was and I raised my hand and I was like I haven't had

sex for 23 years and everybody laughed. And then I asked, is it okay if I have sex tonight with Crow? And Zoe was like, well what does he think about it? And Crow was all like, uh-huh, yeah I'm into it. We didn't have a day space that night. We were like out in a field on a blanket, but we we had sex and he was, I mean actually, really I would say my first sexual experience of like sex sex was actually really good. I mean I loved this person. I would say it was a very sweet and respectful experience.

Was Crow your first big love? We were together, I believe it was three different time. It was on and off between us. So were you having intercourse with other men and was he having intercourse with other women while you were together? I remember him having dates with other women in particular, I remember there was an excruciating time

when he had a date with one woman one night. And then, I think we had a date with one woman one night and then I think we had a date the next night and then he told me on the next date if he was going to have a date with a different woman the night after that. That was very hard for me but I was like well I'm not supposed to be jealous. Being jealous is not enlightened. I better get over this and Errol told me, like, well, if he can do it, you can do it, too. So during that relationship, we each did have dates with other people. Yes. I have questions.

Trust me, all these sex rules are truly getting to the bottom of our fossil fuels problems. Just give it a minute, Tyler. Well, Tyler, you see, when a man and a woman love each other very much, or to thi, thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, I, no, I have other questions, Liz. Well, Tyler, you see, when a man and a woman love each other very, very much, or when they like each other a little bit, or when they hate like each other, or when one is trying to get back at an ex, or another is trying to make a best friend jealous,

or when the clothes off and proceed. No, no, no, Liz. I did learn about intercourse in my Mormon youth sex ed classes. What I'm wondering about is birth control. Something you certainly didn't learn about in your Mormon youth sex ed classes. On the Zendek farm, Liz. Oh, yeah, that was super not normal too, as you might imagine. So our birth control protocol was based on the rhythm method, which is tracking when the woman obuelates. So usually this was sort of a group ritual, like all the women who were having dates that night would gather. And we had our own speculum, but we get the, get the women who were having dates that night would gather.

And we each had our own speculum, but we get the speculum inside, find your oss, the cervical opening, check the quality of the mucus. Is it stretchy? Is it dry? Whatever, if it's stretchy, that means you're fertile. And check how open the os is. Anyway, like, use these various signs to determine if you were fertile or not. And then that was the verdict, like,

sex for you tonight? No sex for you tonight. No sex for you. The first time I did it, I was in this room with all these other women, and they were like taking their pants off and I was like what this is really weird what do I do with my eyes I don't know where to look but you know nobody seems to care nobody is paying attention to me and I was like well this is one of the adventurous things that I get to experience because I'm here because I chose this revolutionary new culture so I'm just gonna I'm gonna go for it and took my pants off and got spacked and it I mean it felt incredibly weird that first that first th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi they they're they're they're they're they they're they they're they they they're they're they they they're they's they they's they's they's they's they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they're they they're they're they're they're they're thi thi thi teeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee. took took took they're they're they're they're they're they're they're they're they're they're they're took my pants off and got speced. And I mean it felt incredibly weird that first time.

So how does it work these dates? Were there guidelines? The date was for one night and one night only. We did our date, now we're done. It wasn't just like you go in and you have sex and then you're done. I mean, it could be a drawn-out, really enjoyable experience. But not too drawn out. Couples and lovers were not supposed to sleep together.

Sleep together, meaning actually sleep in the same bed. Errol says it's bad for people to sleep together. It was something about like what happens between your two subconsciouses when you're asleep? Vaughan and Errol, I believe, did sleep with their partners in their beds and that was okay because they were more highly evolved or more highly full of shit. But there was this period when people just started sleeping with each other a lot, like in their spaces, in their dorms. And then, long behold, we had this fire, we had like a big fire in our main

kitchen that caused a lot of damage and right after the fire we all gathered in Aral's kitchen and she had then decided that the reason for the fire was that all these couples were sleeping together. According to her, sexuality and fire were very closely length. So she decided that was the reason and then everybody had to her, sexuality and fire were very closely length. So she decided that was the reason, and then everybody had to stop. You know this reminds me of the deep and thought-provoking song Sex Farm by England's loudest band Spinal Tap. If you don't know this song, it is definitely worth a listen, I assure you.

The song was performed by band members Nigel Tufnell, David St. Hubbins, and bassist Derek Smalls, and a drummer. And it was included on Spinal Tap's 1980 album, Shark Sandwich. I believe the song is a poignant compendium of the many plights and duties of the independent farmer. Here is a sampling. Working up a hot sweater, crossing in your peepad, clowing through your bee wheel, left my seat. It takes part of it.

For those interested in the band's Final Tap, there is a 1984 documentary about the band directed by Marty DeBurgey. I hear it's pretty good. I should watch it one day. Dates could of course be like really exciting. If I was going to have a date that night it was like the thing I looked forward to all day. If it was with someone I was really attracted to, I did also sometimes have dates with a guy tho the the that to. Because the the the the the their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their thi thi. I was thi. I was th th th th thi. I was that. I was the. I was, the. I was, the. I was, the. I was, the. I was, th. I was, th th the. I was, the. I was, the. I the. I the. I the. I the. I the. I the. I the. I thin. I te. I te. I te. I te. I te. I te. I te. I'm te. tttteat tttttttttttttttttttttttteat tteat te. te. te. te. te. very attracted to because there was this idea of like being open and like, I don't know, almost women should be generous. I remember Errol came out and she was saying women, sex isn't such a big deal, just like do it as a favor or do it as a friend. I did have sex I was not wildly enthusiastic about. I actually, I remember at one point, like setting myself the goal of having sex with every man on the farm, I was actually interested in that. In particular, I wanted to have sex with like all the higher-ups.

But Errol, of course, was the last humanogamous. So nobody had dates with her partner, but her.ups, but Errol, you know, of course, was allowed to be monogamous. So nobody had dates with her partner, but her, like that was it. But I just felt compelled. It was like, I had this thought, I had this desire, I had this interest. It's against Dennyk to keep it to myself. So I did end up hitting on her boyfriend, and he said no, which was to be expected. I thought of Errol as being so wise and so enlightened and so beyond jealousy. Like, I just didn't think this would really matter to her at all. But then, it was very soon after I hit on her boyfriend,

that she came down on me and Crow in front of everybody and said our relationship was shit and basically needed to end. That happened three different times. So in retrospect, I would say it was payback time for me. I think it's safe to say by now that cult leaders never live by their dogma. But if any of you have evidence of otherwise, please contact us and I will happily stand corrected. I think it's safe to say by now that cult leaders never live by their dogma. But if any of you have evidence of otherwise, please contact us and I will happily stand

corrected. Still on the farm, there was a time when Helen was hanging out with a guy named Brandon. He was my favorite of all the new guys I lived in the plywood box with. I think I may have actually asked for input. Like, what do people think about my relationship? And then Fawn was, she said something about like us being in a bubble and spending too much time together, something like that. Fawn again was the daughter of the two initial leaders, Wolf and Errol.

Then, I was pressured to dump him, like to basically choose Dendick over him because the story was if I stayed with him I would be compromising the cause. But I really I loved him. I did not want to break up with him. So what I did was I set out to convince myself that that terrible things were going to happen to me if I did stay with Brandon. And I wrote this story. It was set like in the 1800s, like in the Appalachian backwoods, which is where we were. I called us Owen and Thelma. I made him into a tenure and preacher and I was a housewife.

But in the story, I have a baby, the wife ends up killing the baby and then killing her husband and probably killing herself. I don't remember that part. But I wrote this story in order to convince myself that if I chose Brandon over Zendick, everybody was doomed. That's how I convinced myself to dump him. Really one of my main drivers for staying in Zendick was that I believed it was the only

place on the planet where by apprenticing to Errol who had supposedly done it I could have a lasting honest relationship with the man. The sweet, devastating irony. When I had broken up with Crow for the last time, I told myself, okay, clearly I'm not up with Crow for the last time, I told myself, okay, clearly I'm not capable of this. I'm never going to have this lasting relationship that I want. Too bad. I just need to fully devote myself to Zetnik.

And with a three-pointer, the cult takes the lead. So she dove into her work on the farm, the meetings, the constant naval gazing, but after a while their routine started to wear her down. I was miserable. I thought I was dishonoring Zendik by being there and being miserable. So my idea was I would go out into the death culture and I would see what real misery was like and then come back and be a better vendic. So I ended up hitchhiking from North Carolina to Idaho.

My brother was living there at the time so I went and stayed with him. By the end of two weeks I was not kind of defeated enough to return. And then I thought, well, maybe I'll go visit the community that I chose not to visit back in 1989, the place in Missouri called Eastwind. My brother bought me a bus ticket from Boise to Springfield, which is about 60 miles from Eastwind. I had hitchhiked thousands of miles by this time, but I had escaped unscathed, so I didn't think it would be a problem

to hitchhike the 60 miles or so from Springfield to Eastwind. I ended up getting a ride with this guy Alvin. And the guy drove her into the woods further and further. I had no idea where I was. He like stopped the car and the guy drove her into the woods further and further. I had no idea where I was. He like stopped the car and I believe he demanded a blowjob or something like that. And I said no, and then he just sexually attacked me and started kissing me and groping me.

I escaped by climbing out the window. And then he threw my backpack out the window after me. He drove off. I was, I was totally the the car. I. I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the, stopped, stopped, stopped, stopped, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, stopped, stopped, stopped, stopped. I stopped. I, stopped. I was, stopped. I was, stopped. I was, stopped. I was, stopped. I was a, I was a, I was a the car. I was a the the the the the the the totally, I was a totally, I was a totally, I was a the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the threw my backpack out the window after me, he drove off. I was totally shaken up. I was like, okay. My interpretation of being assaulted by Alvin was, I stayed away from Zendik too long. Doing that equals death, equals assault, equals weakness. I proved myself that life in the death culture is an absolute nightmare, and now I'm ready to go back.

The absolute worst thing that could have happened happened, and it sent her right back into the grips of the cult. So she called her mother, she got money for a bus ticket, and she headed back to the farm in North Carolina. But this time, the group wasn't nearly as welcoming. I guess those $13, stats about the human body. Welcome, folks, to Useless Trivia Night. Did you know that after eating too much, your hearing is less sharp? What did you say?

Also, in our lifetime, a human produces 25,000 quarts of saliva, which is enough to fill almost two swimming pools. Look guys, just because someone knows random facts about the body doesn't mean you should take their medical advice. Nor should you go down the tick-toc wormhole of questionable medical advice from these so-called experts. The care you deserve should come from trusted professionals and not randos on a podcast. And the best way to find those professionals is with Zoc-doc. the only free app that lets you find and book doctors who are patient reviewed, take your insurance, and are available when you need them, and treat almost every condition under the sun.

Like fatal familial insomnia, in which the sufferer is never able to fall asleep. I feel like your effect o'c. their factoids have the reverse effect and the sufferer is put to sleep. With Zoc dock, there there their there are their their their their is their is their is their is their is th. their is their is th. th. th. th. th. th. th. thi- thi-up. to. to. toe. toe. toe. toa-up. toe. toe. toe. toe. toe. toe. toe. toe. toe. t. to. t. t. t. t. t. t. t. t. t. t. t. t. t. t. t. t. t. t. t. t. t. t. t. t. t. t. t. t. t. t. t. t. t. t. t. tttt. tttttttttttttttttreat. tttttreat. ttttreat. treat. treats. treats. treat. treat. t. tocDoc, there are no alarms and no surprises. Choose from thousands of patient-reviewed doctors and specialists. And get the care you need. Go to Zocdoc.com slash InaCult and download the Zocdoc app for free. Then find and book a top-rated doctor today. Many are available within 24 hours. That's ZocDoc.com slash in a cult.Zock.com slash in a cult. So, after having a chance to regain her critical thought in the real world, Helen's experience had only validated all of the fear-mongering the cult had produced.

And so here she was, right back where it all began. I was in a very deep hole when I got back and I spent the next couple months just sort of reintegrating myself. And one of the ways to get back in good graces was to go out on selling trips and make the group some money. So you know I would go out selling regularly and there was never an explicit quota for how much you had to make, but there was always an unofficial quota. At that time, I would say the unofficial quota was $300. Like, that was good. And I kept making $88 over and over again. And this was very bad, and I knew it. So, in September of 2004, I went on a selling trip to Virginia Beach, in Virginia with three

other women, and we had a really bad time, our first night. Like, it turns out that in Virginia Beach, Virginia, it is illegal to have a swear word publicly printed. And our sticker said stop bitching started a revolution so it was actually illegal to be holding that sticker on the street and I got talked to by the police so we had to stop. Uh-huh this is actually true it seems that profane swearing has officially been illegal in the Commonwealth of Virginia since a law was passed in 1792. So it's illegal to say cockadoodle bitch?

I'm not quite sure that cockadoodle bitch was part of the 1792 lexicon, but I do happen to have a few turn of the 18th century vulgarities here for you, Liz. Of course you do, Tyler. For example, a few common swear words of the era were blazes or dratted or boot liquor. How about flapdoodle Liz? What do you think that was? A flapdoodle. A flapdoodle is a tiny little bitch who talks a lot. Close, it's actually a fool. Here's another one. A quim. A quim.

A quim is the tip of a man's penis. The quim. It's actually close. It's a woman's a vullvavvvvvv. It's a woman. It's a woman. th. It's a woman. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. A thi. thi. thi. thi. A thi. A thi. A thi. A thi. A th. A th. A th. A th. A th. A th. A th. A th. A th. A th. A th. A th. A th. A th. A th. A th. A th. A th. A the. A the. A the. A the. A the. A the. A the. A the. A thea. A thea. A thea. thea. thea.a. thea.a. thea. thea. thi. thi. thi. It's actually close. It's a woman's Volvo. My first car was a Volvo. But each of those words, uttered within the boundaries of Virginia, would levy you a fine of 83 cents. And I actually think that's a good idea, list. I am going to find you 83 cents every time you swear you swear.

I just have this little coin jar. I'm going to put th th th th th th th th th th th th th tho th tho tho tho tho tho tho tho tho tho tho tho tho tho tho tho tho tho tho tho tho tho tho tho the tho-a tho-a' tho-a' tho-a' tho-a' tho-a tho-a the tho the the the the the the tho tho the tho the tho here. I'm going to put these coins every time you swear in that coin jar. Oh, well, that's really fucking cute. I believe I should have a fair amount of money by the end of the season. Flap doodle. The modern day Virginia swearing law was a class four misdemeanor, which would cost the offender $250. The law stayed in place for 228 years until it was repealed by Virginia lawmakers in 2020. That same week they also repealed a law against fornication, but they kept the long-standing

law against spitting. A bunch of dreaded bootlegers there. Virginia Beach actually collected over $6,000 in fines from the public cussers in 2019. Well shit, foot, bitch, I'll be down. We decided to relocate to Washington, D.C. the next day. I was out of the street that day, selling, and the leader of the crew came over to me and told me, like, I just can't stand to be around you. Errol said to the crew leader, like, okay, well, the the the th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, thu, thu, thu, thu, thu, thu, thu, thu, thu, thu, thu, thu, thu, thu, thu, thu, thus, thus, thus, thus, thus, thus, thus, thus, thus, thus, thus, to me and told me like, I just can't stand to be around you. Errol said to the crew leader, like, okay, well, you guys need to have a meeting and figure out what to do with her, like, what to do with me.

You know, I was like six feet under the doghouse at this point. But I thought, like, okay, if they tell me to leave, I'm going to plead, I'm going to promise to do better, I'm going to find a way to be able to stay." And they had the meeting, I wasn't allowed in the meeting. The crew leader was someone who was delivering the verdict and she said, Helen, we think you should go. It wasn't like you can never come back, but there was absolutely no guarantee that I would ever be allowed to have any hope of beating myself into shape to come back and be better Zennick next time, like I had to really just fully subject myself to all the rigors of the death culture. So in the next few

hours I started packing, I packed my stuff up and it was the first time in my Vendik experience where I felt like I deserved something. I asked for money for my trip. And I was really like hoping for like $20. And I got 10. And I was like, oh, like I felt the fuck you in that. We all felt the fuck you and that. This time, she decides to hitchhike to California and she catches rides with various truck drivers. And when she gets to Tennessee she meets one

particular truck driver and... We talked a lot you know while he was driving and at one point we you know we stopped for dinner and I kind of noticed as I was answering like I think I'm flirting with him and I think maybe he's flirting with me. Later that night he's flirting with me. Later that night, he pulled off the road and proceeded to seduce me in the back of the cab of his truck. And I was very glad to be seduced. It felt really good to me to have sex away from the eye from the tribe. And it also gave me hope that there were good things to the their to to me.. to me. to me. to me. to me. to me. their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their the eye of the tribe. And it also gave me hope that there were good things out in the deaf culture for me to experience because I knew that I was attracted to this man and that this felt good. Went to California together in the truck, you know, he was going back and forth

across country every week, and then he would go back home to his wife. Basically, he really wanted out of his marriage and I was the off-ramp. I fell in love with him. I absolutely did. And I went all the way back east with him to Virginia. And I remember going to the library. I spent a few hours at the library and found on the shelf a book written by the author the the the the the the the the the the the the the. th. the. th. the. the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, te, truck, truck, truck, truck, truck, trucke, thae, truck, truck, truck, truck, truck, truck, truck, truck, truck, truck, truck, truck, truck, truck, truck, truck, truck, truck, truck, truck, truck, truck, truck, truck, truck, truck, truck, truck, truck, truck, truck, truck, truck, truck, truck, truck, truck, truck, truck, truck, truck, truck, truck, truck, truck, truck, truck, truck spent a few hours at the library and found on the shelf a book written by the author Nell Freud and Berger who had been in my class at Harvard and when I saw her book on the shelf I was like, I know I want my book on the shelf, like I want to book on the shelf

too. And it was the first time I had kind of noticed an ambition beyond Dendik inside me. And I was like, okay, well, what I want is to travel around the world because if I go mow down those fantasies, I go to those places, I'll see what bullshit they are and see that nothing's really different there, and now they're ready, they go back to Dennick. So, in the library, I used the internet to search all the organic farm apprentice jobs in the country and found the one that paid the most. It was $7.50 an hour plus vegetables and a place to stay. So I did end up applying for that job and getting it.

And the truck driver eventually. He disappeared after a little while and I was heartbroken and I burned in a Dutch oven everything. He had given me to try to get over him. And I went out to this organic farming job in Chico, California, working for $7.50 an hour cash under the table. I had like a flower canister and I just stuffed my cash into the canister until I had enough. And she had saved enough to embark on her tour around the world. Just a little bit of money in her little canister.

Liz, like our little swear jar that I'm going to take a trip around the world with at the end of the season. I went to Hawaii. I worked on some farms there. And then I did go to New Zealand. I went to Australia. I hitchhiked across Australia from Sydney to Perth. Then I went to South Africa to visit a friend I met in Flagstaff and then I came home. I took the long way around to get back to Brooklyn. I got back to Brooklyn in October of 2005, a little more than a year after I had left Zendik. And even though I still believed in Zendik and I wasn't pre yet, I had gathered a whole of evidence that people in the death culture just weren't then then then th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, thi thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, I thi, thi, thi, and then, and then, thi, and then, I thi, I th. I thi, I the the the th. I the the the th. I the th. I th, I th, I th, I th, I th, I th, I th, I th, I th, I th, I th, I th, I th, I th, I th, and I th, I thi, and I thi, and I thi, thr-a, thr-a, thr-auuiauiolauiauiolauuiauiauiologe, tha, thr-a, thr-a, thr-a I wasn't pre-yet, I had gathered a whole lot of evidence that people in the death culture just weren't as bad as I had thought.

But I was still blea. I believe my only two choices were returning to the farm or having a terrible life. Because remember she was forced to leave. She didn't choose it. But then she met up with an old friend. I think it was December 1st of 2005. My friend Kira, who had left the farm about six months after I had, she was going to Paris and she was passing through New York.

And so, you know, we had the chance to see each other in person. Shortly after we got together, so, like, are you going back to the far? And she was like, fuck, no, I am never going back. And I was like, wow. I just had this like leap of joy and possibility in my heart. Like, maybe that's possible for me too. Her father had given her this book to read by Steve Hasson, Combat and Cult Mind Control, so she had an awareness of the various patterns that were at work and she told me about them. And then I went and got the book.

I read it myself. I was like, yep, totally checks out. These are all just patterns. Like, Zendix not unique. It's not saving the world. It's just recapitulating th these these these these these these these these these the world. It's just recapitulating these very common patterns. And that was when I freed myself mentally and emotionally. I finally had a better story to replace the one in which I was doomed if I didn't return.

And what was that story? The new story was that Zendik was a cult and that I got to stay out in the world and love my blood family and my old friends and start to build a life for myself. I think of my Vendic experience as a big pile of stinky guck that I have composted into fertile soil. You know, part of why I made such a good zendic was that I was so good at telling stories, at like adding connective tissue to concepts that didn't necessarily make sense, but I can make them make sense. When I left Zendic, it became super clear to me that I had spent five years living inside

this story. I was like, I'm clearly going to write a book about this. So I started writing in 2006 and then it came out in 20-clune. The book is called Mating in Captivity. And you can hear Helen read an excerpt from the book on our Patreon page. You see, to really join our cult, we need your money guys. And yes, we use all donations to fund our offshore drilling site of course. Of course but there's a nice little epilogue to Helen's story.

Four years later in 2008 I had a job interview at a place called Revolution Rickshaw's doing deliveries on a giant trike in Midtown Manhattan and it turned out that someone she knew actually worked there. It was my friend Julian who had lived at Zendnik with me, and he was the operations manager of this company. So I showed up, and I met Julian. And he introduced her to the boss, Greg. Greg came in, and he was like young and athletic and good looking, and so he interviewed me, and Julian was sort of sticking up for my ability to navigate the office buildings and do the job and so I I did get the job and from the very beginning I kind of noticed that Mimi Greg was

flirting with me and I was flirting back and he asked me out like a month later and they went on a proper date. And this time she wasn't coerced into having sex with other men to abate her jealous instincts. And one thing, well it led to another and... I moved in with him on New Year's Day of 2009. We got married in 2011 and we have been married ever since. She finally got her chance at a lasting, honest relationship, not just random sex in a goat barn loft. That does sound appealing, though.

I left Dendick and then got a chance at my theoretal romance. And the farm today? No longer exist. It folded around 2013. Errol died in 2012, and her daughter Fawn was supposed to take over. My guess is that she didn't really want to. I believe by 2013 everyone had left the farm. As far as I know, it's possible that the land has now been sold. So I guess they didn't end up saving the world from Ecoside, then, did they?

No, Liz. I'm sorry to say that they did not. Okay, well, my very last and very important question for you, Helen, is, how do you spell sociopathic, narcissistic, megalomaniac? S-O-C-I-O-P-A-T-H-I-C, N-A-R-C-I-S-S-I-S-T-I L O M A N I A C. And I end to remember all three words while spelling them. Well, you have won the Was I an occult spelling bee. And we will send you our prizes. We don't have much. Um, but we could send you some cookies.

Great. That's our show, guys. Thank you, Helen, for your honest recounting of your time in an idealistic group turned cult. Thank you, Helen. Your story is enlightening and is sure to help people understand how these situations manifest. Don't forget, folks, next week we'll have another amazing episode, and here's a clip from it. The next morning when I woke up, my dad said to me, we're leaving. Pack up your bag I

just packed on my bag and I got in the car and it was just my dad and me and he said that I was going to live with the leader for the summer. Hey Tyler yeah Liz yes spell Staphylocos. Oh, please, come on! Yeah, give me this. Alter it. ST, S-T-E, P-H-O. S-T-E, P-H-O. Tyler.

Spell Foulard. A lightweight, plain woven or twilled silk, usually printed with a small neat evenly spaced pattern. H-L-R-D. I'm torn between Ph and F-U-L-A-R-D, but I'm going to go with F-U-L-A-R-D. F-O-L-L-A-R-D. F-O-U-L-A-R-D. F-O-U-L-A-R-D. F-U-O-U-L-U-L-A-F-F-F-F-F-F-F-F-F-F-F-F-F-F-F-F-F-F-F-F-F-F-F-F-F-F-F-F-F-F-F-F-F-F-F-F-F-F-F-F-F-F-F-F-F-F-F-F-F-F-F! F-F-F-F-F-F-F-F-F-F-F-F-F-F-F-F-F-F-F-F-F-F-F-F, F, F, F, F, F, F, F, F, F, F, F, F. F! F! F! F! F! F! F! F! F! F! F-F-F-F-F-F-F-F-F-F-F-F-F-F-F-F-F-F-F-F-F-F-F-F-U-U-U-U-U-U-U-U-U-U-U-U-U-U-U-U-U-U-U-U-U-U-U-U-U-U-F-F-F-F-F-F-F-F-F-F-F-U-L-A-R-D. Woo! Thank you. Thank you. I wouldn't get past the fourth grade spelling bee.

You are not a flap-doodle. No, I'm not. Thank you, Liz, for quizzing me and making me feel and look like a fool. You are a foolard. Spell buckle. F-U-C-K-L-I-Z. I'm only spelling what everyone's thinking. All right, read the credits.

Was I an occult is hosted, written and produced by me, Liz Ayacousi. And me, Tyler Missom, production and editing by the wonderful Kristen Vermilia. Sound design and mixing by Rob Parra, with additional editing by the wonderful Kristen Vermilia. Sound Design and Mixing by Rob Parra, with additional editing by Emily Carr. And just remember everyone, random Patreon subscribers will be gifted a signed copy of Helen's book, so be sure to become a member. Like Tammy McCormick. What's up Tammy? She's from Washington. She signed up, and she happened to love the bonus

interview we did with Supermodel Fabio, which you can also hear if you sign up. So do it guys. The link is in the show notes. Also don't forget to rate and review the show and tell your friends. Jesus Tyler they just want to listen to a podcast not be told what to do okay but do support us. Please do if there is any cult you can get to get the to get to get to get to get to get to get to get to get to get the to get to get the to get the to get to get to get the the to get to get the to get the to get the to to the to the to the to to the the the the to to to to to the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the too. too. too. tooooooooooooooo. Ia. ty. ty. tog. ty. tog. ty. I I. I. I to. I to., okay? But do support us. Please do. If there is any cult you can get behind, by God it's this one. File that little tidbit away for later, dear listeners. File that little tidbit away for later, dear listeners. File that hard. Real.

What the fide? I can't get through it. File that hard. Real. can't get through it. File that hard, real hard. I don't even know what that means. Liz, you can't just say something in a sexual tone and make it funny and make sense. I guess in the context of this particular episode, yes. I think I can. Have you read what's going on on this form? Yes, but our listeners haven't, not yet.

File that hard. Really? I almost spit out my coffee. And to hear more completely ashenine bloopers like this, be sure to join our Patreon guys. Patreon.com, backslash, was Ina Cult. You want to throw out a couple more coins in the jar, Liz? Just get it out. F-U-C-K-T-Y-L-E-R. The correct spelling is F-U-C-K-Y-O-U-L-I-L-I-Z-L-I-L-L-L-L-L-E-E-E-E-E-E-E-E-E-E-E-E-E-E-E-E-E-E-U-E-E-E-E-E-E-E-E-E-E-E-E-E-E-E-E-E-E-E-E-E-E-E-E-U-S-N-E-E-S-S-S-S-S-L-E-R. The correct spelling is F-U-C-K-Y-O-U-L-I-Z.

T-H-E-E-N-D. The end.