We Can Do Hard Things with Glennon Doyle - Double Date with Megan Rapinoe & Sue Bird! (Best Of)

Episode Date: January 15, 2025

For their first (of hopefully many) podcast double dates, Abby and Glennon sit down with the icons, activists, and Olympians Megan Rapinoe and Sue Bird. In this honest and hilarious conversation, we find out: 1. The delightfully awkward moment Megan and Sue first met; 2. What’s hard for each of them right now; 3. The boundaries they’re working on together; 4. How they communicate and deal with jealousy; and  5. How they help each other show up in the world as champions for change.   About Sue:  Regarded as the world’s premier point guard, Sue Bird is the WNBA’s All-Time Leader in Assists and known for being selfless, driven, encouraging, funny and smart. Bird is a seasoned veteran and a born leader who has dominated at every level. She is one of only seven women to win an Olympic Gold Medal (she’s won five), a World Championship Gold Medal (she’s won four) an NCAA Championship (she’s won two), and a WNBA Championship (she’s won four – the last just weeks before her 40th birthday). Sue is also a five-time Euroleague Champion, a twelve- time WNBA All-Star, was voted by the fans as one of the WNBA’s Top 15 Players of All Time. Off the court, Sue spends time as a basketball analyst for ESPN and as an outspoken and visible activist advocating for Black Lives, equality, health and wellness and expanding opportunities for girls and all marginalized people.   TW: @S10Bird IG: @suebird10 About Megan:  Two-time World Cup Champion and Olympic Gold Medalist, Megan Rapinoe is a fan favorite and one of the team’s most technical and craftiest players. A vocal leader on and off the pitch, Megan helped lead the USWNT to the 2019 Women’s World Cup Championship scoring some of the biggest goals of the tournament. Megan took home the tournament’s two top honors – the Golden Boot for top scorer, and the Golden Ball for the best player in the tournament. Megan is an advocate for equality for all and has been able to intersect her passion for humanity and authenticity.    TW: @mPinoe IG: @mrapinoe To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

We have a very exciting trip coming up. Oh, I can't wait. Pod Squad. We are going to stay in Park City in a big house with all of the people who we worked with to produce Andrew Gibson's documentary, which is called Come See Me in the Good Light, OK? So we've been working on this documentary all year,

and it's going to Sundance, yay yay, and we all wanted to stay together. And so Abby and I found this big, beautiful house that all the, I mean, I think it's pretty much all lesbians, mostly all lesbians. It's gonna be a very gay, cozy house. We all want to have our own spaces, but we all wanna feel connected.

So we went with Airbnb. If you're traveling with family or friends this winter, like we are, consider an Airbnb. Those extra rooms and a full kitchen make all the difference. And if you're traveling with family or friends this winter like we are, consider an Airbnb. Those extra rooms and a full kitchen make all the difference. And if you're going solo, you can still find a place that feels like your own little sanctuary no matter where you are. So next time you're planning a winter getaway, give Airbnb a try. Trust me, it's an experience you won't regret.

Hey everybody. We're getting through, aren't we? That's what we're doing. One foot in front of the other, 2025 is looking like it might be a real doozy. And we are in it with you and we're here for you and with you. Recently our show was selected by Apple as one of their 10 shows we love. And they called it a comforting support system for braving the everyday. And that is what we hope. We hope that we can help you brave the everyday.

That's what you help us do. And so on Sundays, we are publishing an episode for you, one of our favorite episodes of the past four years that we've selected to be a comforting support system for all of us as we brave this new year. So in addition to our new Tuesday, Thursday episodes and the ones that we're posting on Wednesday as well, Please come on Sunday for some togetherness, some support, some soothing Sunday togetherness for 2025. Thank you. We will see you there. Hello, hello, hello. Welcome back to We Can Do Hard Things. Today we are inviting you to a double date.

It's so exciting. It is exciting. I feel nervous and excited a little bit like, and for the past few minutes we've been talking about our own personal rules for our double date. Like you would imagine you and your partner driving to this said double date and like you're kind of talking about like,

what's gonna happen? Like what do you wanna talk about? Ugh. Yeah, so our first double date, and we can do our things. Who is it? Megan Rapinoe and Sue Bird. What?

I mean, legends. Yeah. All right, let's do this. Okay, Megan and Sue. Here we are. And I just wanna explain to you what the hell we're doing here, okay? Abby and I decided a while back

that we were gonna try to have friends. Okay. Like new friends? No. Oh, okay. Just existing friends that reboot. Right. Like we were just going to actually talk to the people that we call our friends. Yeah.

But we don't want to go anywhere or really do anything about it. So what we decided was that we were gonna have double dates on the podcast. So then we made a list of all of the people that we wanted to have a double date with and it kept just saying Megan and Sue. So here we are. Thank you. I love a 9 a.m.

A 9 a.m. double date? Yeah, that's actually typical for us. Yeah. Isn't it? Well, in the actually typical for us. Isn't it? Well, in the sober world, when you don't drink at night, like you don't go get dinner and drinks if you're not drinking. So we do coffee.

Yeah, it's like, because it gets very arbitrary. It's like the goodwill hunting. It's like, do you want to get together and have some caramels? Yeah. It's like, what the hell else do you do? So what are you guys doing? Like what in the hell are you doing? Where are you right now?

Are you in Seattle? Yeah, we're in Seattle. We're in Seattle. We're both kind of, Abby, I feel like you know this, stress and anxiety and life questioning feeling as well as we do. We're in our, sort of like, it's just every year it comes, the anxiety comes,

all of the questions about my life come. And it's like, I know what's happening, still just happens, but we're working out and doing the things and doing sports. What are the questions? Because I feel this way. I want you to understand that this is not a Sporty Spice thing. I think you're alluding to that because you just only called out Abby, but January is just a pit of existential dread all the time.

For them, it's in the form of like a beep test. Yeah. That's where their fitness is. The beep test. Yeah, that's where their... I don't have that experience. Thank God. We don't do that fitness. Yeah. So the beep test. Yeah, that's where they're. I don't have that experience. Thank God we don't do that fitness testing stuff. It's just like the feeling of, you know, you can't wait to get to your vacation at the

end of your season. It's all you think about all year long. You can't wait. Of course you take your, you know, seven days off, like your really long break, seven days. And then you have to get going in somehow in seven days, you forgot how to do everything and everything hurts and everything's like 20,000 times harder than it ever was before. And you're like, should I, should we just hang it up?

Should I be done? Should, why is it so hard? Is everyone else doing it this hard? No, it looks easy for the, uh. It's just so dumb to get ready for us, you know, the sports. Is it like the Sunday scaries, but like times a million? Yeah. Is it like on Sunday when everything feels terrifying

and you forgot how to be out in the world and do whatever it is you do and you don't think you'll ever figure it out again? Is it like that but harder? Well I think that Megan and I were very similar in this way that when it was off-season we were off. We took those seven and might I say maybe 14. We might have extended those days off. So that coming back into shape is just miserable and also when get older, it's harder. It's just it's just physiologically more difficult. Some people just like stay in shape during that time,

but I just never did. But how is your body holding up, Megan? Like, are you are you feeling healthy, at least? Um, I am feeling good. Yeah, I had a little longer break actually this time than I normally do. I obviously didn't go to the camp in Australia. So I feel like I was really able to kind of phase out like, okay, you're doing a little bit of rehab in the beginning and now we're doing strength. And now I'm kind of back on the field

getting ready for pre-season. So I actually feel pretty good, like knock on wood. And I've been able to kind of slow roll it, which has been nice. And I haven't felt a ton of pressure. There's always like a little bit of like, I'm not going into this camp or whatever, but it's actually been nice to not have that pressure.

And I just get to like roll into my club pre-season, which will be really nice. So I feel pretty good. Do you two feel, so we were just talking to a good friend, Sarah Paulson, and she was talking about how she's just gotten to this point in her life where she's finally figured out that she knows how to do what she does.

Like, it's not just one long fluke. It's not like she's tricking the world every time she shows up. She actually tells herself, wait, you know how to act. Like, you can do this. It's not luck. Do you guys feel like you can do sports yet? Or do you still feel like you're just tricking the world every time? And when you get a trophy or whatever you get, you're like,

oh, thank God, I tricked him again. Got him. I think it's a dance. I think you're doing a dance. I think there are days when you feel that way. And then there are days when you're like, man, I hope I score today. You know, I think, like Abby said, or she talked about getting older, what happens when you get older is you definitely start to realize what you're good at. You start to, when you're out there playing, you start to stick to what you're good at. And then, but what happens is you're getting older, you're realizing you're really good at it, right? Like you've proven it, and then your body starts to go a little bit. So then it's like this shift.

So like, well, is my body going to let me do it? Like, I know this shift to like, well, is my body going to let me do it? Like I know I can do it now, but is my body going to let me do it? And then, and then all of a sudden for me anyway, the focus shifts to that where I'm in my workouts. The minute I feel any pain, I'm like, oh, this could be it. This could be, you know, and the rest of my week is spent in retirement. And then I show up the next week and it feels pretty good. And I'm like, all right, I could play forever. So it's just this constant like dance. That's horseshit. So the second you figure out how to do it, you're it's like that reminds me of I think I'm in para menopause right now.

That reminds me of that. It's like, OK, I'm crushing it. I'm a badass. I am like, I don't give a shit what anyone thinks about me. I am out there doing my thing. And it's like, oh, but I'm gonna have hot flashes every four minutes. Like, what the fuck? Yeah, but it's like, your body's gonna remind you

and like knock you down nine pegs every time you start to get comfortable. It's not like, I feel like at this stage in both of our careers, it's like, if all things were equal physically, it's like we'd be busting these kids' asses. Like, it's not, it's like, I know what to do and exactly how to do it and where my advantages are and all that.

It's just about bringing this body along to get it to the point where it can halfway do what my mind is asking. Well, and as pro athletes, y'all never are actually, especially as we get older, you're never at 100%. So you're always dealing with something. And like, that just plays a massive role into the confidence that you could take as an athlete on the pitch or on the court.

So it's like, I don't know, I just think it's so fucking amazing that y'all are still playing. I mean, Sue, how old are you right now? 41. Fuck, that's how old are you right now? 41. Fuck! That's how old I am! Yeah.

You couldn't pay me. You're such a slacker. You could still, I can't understand what you're saying right now, because I haven't listened. Because I keep going back to the fact that Megan Rapinoe just called a bunch of people on the team the kids.

Yeah. Like, that, I feel like a great grandmother. Yes. If Megan is referring to, wow, so you're like the old person now. Yeah. Wow. Are you the oldest on the team?

Now that Karlie's gone? And Becky. Becky, I think is like a month older. But no, it's Becky and I. And Sue, you are also? Oh yeah. You're the oldie? I've been the oldest for like five years.

And she just agreed to play for another year, which is amazing and wild to me. I mean, have you treated your body perfectly forever? No, no, no, no. How are you still moving? I'm like, good genetics. No, 41. I'm 41. Yeah. No, but I didn't do this forever, but I switched. I switched like my workout regimen.

I hired somebody, all this stuff, probably six years ago now. And that was like, I was plateauing. And then it kind of, it wasn't even that like I took off. It was just like, oh, it didn't do the decline. It kind of just stayed. And then I was able to, like you guys talked about, when you get older, you are just smarter, you're more experienced than these players.

So you can use that as long as your body's there. So I just found a way to keep my body like hovering. And that's how, like I always say, like people talk about father time. I'm like, I'm just trying to tie him. I'm not trying to win. I'm not trying to win. I just need to tie. Just keep up.'m not trying to win. That's good. I'm not trying to win.

I just need to tie. Just keep up. You guys should become, well, you already are, but if you're a writer, you don't have to give a shit about your body. I don't even have to like make it up the stairs to have a good day. I'll be at the bottom of the stairs writing. Yeah. That's right.

That's right. So how did you guys meet? Yeah. Oh, gosh. Yeah. Oh gosh. The quick sort of version is, Abby, you know the like Olympic NBC media day? It's usually in LA.

The all day. The all day, you go from like uniform to this outfit. Casual Saturday. From like date night. Those are the outfits you have to bring. They tell you. They're like putting a date night, date night. You know, those are the outfits you have to bring. They tell you. They're like, bring a date night, Saturday night, a casual Sunday night, and then a workout outfit.

And then you have like your proper uniform and you're gonna like change these outfits constantly. So your hair's up, your hair's down. And this is a pre, this is NBC pre-Olympics so that NBC can get footage to use while the Olympics are playing. Oh, okay. Which you maybe see like 10 seconds of it ever.

Yeah. Yeah, it's like Entertainment Tonight, the sports, some news, like go into the social thing, like all of these different like stakeholders, media stakeholders are in the same thing. So this was 2016. Yeah, 2016. So Dan Levy, obviously my agent, you know Dan and Glenn very well. Yeah, so it was like sort of in passing. I also was not single at the time.

I was actually engaged at the time. So this was just kind of like a funny interaction. Dan basically like introduced me. And we, it's like we had been in Seattle for whatever, a number of years. Like I obviously knew who she was, but like, you know, I'd gone to a couple WNBA games, but didn't know each other.

So, Dan was like, oh my gosh, you guys should sort of know each other. And it was, when I was saying she had her uniform on, but then she had the hair down, and I'm sure more makeup than you wanted. Tragic. Yeah, and I just, because I'm so cool and so smooth with everything,

I just made some dumb joke that I immediately walked past and so smooth with everything, I was just made some dumb joke that I immediately walked past her and rolled my eyes. And I was like, I can't fucking believe you just did that. But I like walked, we kind of got introduced and it was one of those things, you know when it's like quick and like, it's just one of these, like it's just a weird thing. And I was like, oh, like you're ready for your game?

And just like, I was like, yeah, okay, so there's that. So we can't even be friends now because she's a loser. Right. So she's dead to me. Yeah. Like, obviously we can't be. I was like, oh, I heard she was cool. Yeah. Like everything that you've heard is a total lie. Not. Anyway, so that was kind of like our first. That was like the proper first meeting. Little interaction. Yeah. And then what was the what was the next basically at the, at the Olympics, we famously, you know, bonked out in a massive way. I was coming back from my ACL. So it was just the whole Olympics for us was really kind of terrible, but we got out so

early and we never actually even made it to Rio. So I was like, Oh, I'm going to Rio. There was like five or six of us. We went to a few games. We ended up, you guys had, you were staying on a cruise ship. So it was like different Olympic experiences, different budgets, different budgets, wildly different. I mean, she said, what is it called?

Manaus? Manaus. That, that then appeared on 90 day fiance. Yes. The hotel, the hotel did. And I was like 90 Day Fiance. Yes, the hotel. The hotel did. And I was like, oh, I started watching that one season. I don't regret it. I don't regret it.

It's not something I'm proud of, but I don't regret it. And I was like, oh, they're in this like crazy Brazil. She's like, that's where we stayed. That's where we stayed. I was like, what? My clothes are still damp. It's like, it was awful. Different experiences.

And just real quick, can you explain to us why? Why? So it's actually very simple. USA Basketball, the umbrella is both men's and women's. There's a lot of like, how do I explain this? The NBA is very much involved in our USA basketball experience. It's kind of all one big umbrella, actually, like the NBA kind of owns the USA basketball rights and it gets kind of, there's a lot of detail to it. But with that, there's a certain standard in which the men are treated and we get treated the same. As we should, as we deserve.

But that's basically what happens. Yeah, so it's like they charter, we charter. They actually cannot stay in the village. They're just entirely too famous. It's the times we do go in there with them. It's wild. So they always we always have to get something outside of the village. We unlike unlike you guys, we stay in the city the whole time.

We play the whole time. We stay in the city, whatever city it is the whole time. And our traveling party is huge. We can bring guests. So they get us like a hotel or in this case, they couldn't find a hotel like logistically that made sense. So we stayed on a cruise ship. It was like below deck vibes. It's a much more like enjoyable, relaxed, environment where we're like, you have one hour a day of family time.

Yeah. You're like, OK. Yeah. It's like, OK, like visitation. Yeah. Everyone being miserable, that's going to help us. Our performance on the field. You guys just have more. But it's weird. It's like they're not on contract like we are. No, it's a totally different model. Do you get paid more like than the stock?

Like, do you than the soccer? Do you actually, the women, right? So it doesn't translate to actual paychecks. Yeah, they don't even get paid really. It's kind of different. We get bonuses for winning. No, but I mean like in the WNBA. So we're talking two separate things.

USA basketball is different than the WNBA. Right. So like for them, and I'm sure you hear, and by the way, I'm like you, Glen, like I had to learn all their lives, like how it went. Their national team is like the priority. It's where the money is. It's like where their contracts are.

For us, it's the WNBA and overseas. And then national team is second. And for them, it's like national teams first. Got it. Second, like it's a flipped. Yeah. Got it. OK, cool. So you're in the Olympics. Megan's out of the Olympics, but visiting the Olympics. Yes. Yeah. Got it. Okay, cool. So you're in the Olympics. Megan's out of the Olympics,

but visiting the Olympics. Yeah. Yeah. Sue is on below deck. Yes. And so then how does this happen? So I had been going to, yeah, I had been going to a couple of games. Obviously we all, it's like, we didn't know each other, but like we're in the exact same world in life. We know the same people, like the agents, all the sort of things. You're just going to skip the DM part? Oh, yeah. It actually sounds like way more scandalous. So obviously the summer of 16, it was like from a social justice perspective. I mean, we just come off like 14 Ferguson, Trayvon Martin, Michael Brown, like, you know, going into fitting, I feel like I was like educating myself more.

The WNBA obviously is always the, the leader and in the forefront of social justice work and protests and all of that. So summer of 16, the players from Minnesota had refused to speak to the media and worn the black shirts and kind of going, the players from Minnesota had refused to speak to the media, worn the black shirts and kind of going into the Olympics. I slid into Sue's DMs. I do love the DMs and like, she does, she does. Not in, I just, it's like the blue truck gets you far.

Yeah, no. I'm like, hi. It's like, that's how you met Carla, her stylist. Yeah, like the guy who's doing our apartment right now. The guy who's doing our apartment right now. Designing in New York, like I just slide into everyone's DMs and I'm like, hi. Like you didn't ask me, but here I am.

Anyway, so I had hit her like, hey, just amazing what- About social justice. Yeah, like what you guys are doing, if there's any way for our teams to partner or whatever. This was pre-kneeling that happened sort of after we got back from the Olympics. Just kind of, is there any way to connect or help like amplify whatever that it didn't really kind of like lead anywhere, but we sort of were like talking.

If I had to like round this out. It was platonic. There's like, yeah, there's like all these like connecting points. We met here and then we, oh, we, oh, I saw, we saw each other at the USA house, which is this place that at the Olympics, there's always like a USA house where every athlete can go and they have like food and different kind of entertainment things, whatever they do there. We saw, I saw you there and then she lost.

So then she was coming to my games. At that point, we had connected on the DM and it was kind of like, oh, you know, good to see you, blah, blah, blah, that kind of thing. And then they came to our after party. So we had one. My fiance was there at the time. Sarah was there. Sarah was party. So we had one. My fiance was there at the time. Sarah was there.

Sarah was there. So it was like. So this is really like totally platonic. Yeah. Got it. At the time. Okay. So you DMed Sue about your first date.

Yeah. And then you were like, I'm not gonna do this anymore. I'm not gonna do this anymore. I'm not gonna do this anymore. I'm not gonna do this anymore. I'm not gonna do this anymore. I'm not gonna do this anymore.

I'm not gonna do this anymore. I'm not gonna do this anymore. I'm not gonna do this anymore. I'm not gonna do this anymore. I'm not gonna do this anymore. I'm not gonna do this anymore. I'm not gonna do this anymore. Okay, so you DMed Sue about social justice before the kneeling, before your kneeling. So would you say that, because I secretly believe that the WNBA is in charge of the world. Yes. I really do. It certainly should be. Holy shit.

So would you say that that influenced you? Oh yeah, good question. The WNBA? Influenced you and the way that you decided to take on the kneeling. Do you think there's any way that that was influential to you? Yeah, definitely. Because I think that they were the first ones doing anything publicly protesting as an athlete, kind of during that time. Like they were talking before Colin was talking, they had already done the protest in that summer and in their season. And it

wasn't just with the Minnesota team, it then kind of went league wide. You guys wore black t-shirts and, you know, refused to speak to the media about, I mean, if you remember that summer, it was like, there was like five really high profile murders of black men. And there was the shooting of the police officers, I think it was in Dallas. It was a very violent and tragic summer sort of leading into Colin kneeling, which was like September or something. So I think I was already kind of like opening my eyes to what was happening and you know, going through, like I said, like Trayvon Martin and then the protests in Ferguson and Michael Brown and that obviously extended really far the formation of Black Lives Matter. Like I was just like learning about it. I didn't really, I mean, I don't think I was just learning about it. I don't think I was

really thinking about it all that much before then. And then you guys, and it was just much more, I feel like that summer, every time you turned around articles or in the Atlantic or the New York Times or Sports Illustrate, it was all just in the sort of zeitgeist of the moment. So yeah, like you guys were the first ones to really speak out. And I think even it's like, even in my sort of like implicit bias, I think back then I would say Colin was probably a bigger influence because obviously when he spoke out, he got so much more media attention. It's the NFL, but like really, they were saying the exact same, they were doing the exact same things, you know,

in the best way that they could or in the most impactful way that they could sort of prior to Colin even kneeling for the first time. Yeah, so amazing. And would Sue, that was mostly black women led, right? Is that the way that it? Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Absolutely.

Yeah, it was, it was Minnesota Lynx is really the team. And you would say Maya Moore, Simone Augustus, Rebecca Brunson on that team, Lindsay Whalen, those four, like I can picture the image, there's a picture of them standing kind of at like a press conference, they had made shirts. I forget the man's name who died in Minnesota who was murdered, Castile, maybe?

Philando? Yes, yes. And that was the instigator for them. Cause this was like, this happened in our state. And when they did that, the security guards, who are generally like off-duty police officers, they walked out. And then the rest of our league was like, wait a minute.

Like, we need to support this, be a part of this, make it bigger. And that's actually the first time we really started to learn the power of like the collective. Like, yes, it was big when Minnesota did it because then I think New York Liberty followed, I think maybe Phoenix Mercury followed, then the whole league followed.

And it was like, oh, when we're all doing this, then it's like a big boom versus just one team here, one team there. So that was actually, in terms of our journey as a league, that was the starting point of realizing the collective power. And the rest of us don't even understand, I don't think consciously, the power of what you all do first.

Because I remember seeing the whole Loeffler situation, the Kelly Loeffler thing. This is the 2020 election. Right, that terrible woman. Or the 2018. Right, and then, I don't know, I don't know numbers. No, this is 2020. 2020.

2020. Yeah, but I remember seeing the vote Warnock t-shirts. And I remember being like, who's 2020. 2020. 2020. Yeah, but I remember seeing the Vought Warnock t-shirts. And I remember being like, who's that? So how weird is that? That like, you know, a year later we were all like, this was my idea. But that team was the first. And that was so brave and amazing. Like, wasn't that the owner of, Lothler was the owner of the team?

And these women all walked out with V vote Warnock t-shirts on. So badass. The players of the Atlanta Dream. Dream, right? Yeah, the Atlanta Dream. The whole league did it. Our entire league. And that was like the beauty of the Wubble.

Obviously, we're in a bubble because shit's crazy. COVID, so much, George Floyd, like there's so much happening. And we're, but the beauty of the bubble was we were all together. So you can, and you know how it is. I mean, how hard is it to get on a. So you can, and you know how it is. I mean, how hard is it to get on a zoom with two other people, you know, finding time? It's impossible. So for 144 women to be in one place at the same time, you could just like strategize

because we're like, I know you're not doing shit. Get on this thing. Like come meet me. Yeah. You guys were really the like the sort of like the like the the the snap or the whatever firecracker. Obviously, you know, shout out Stacey Abrams and Fair Fight and the activists on the ground. I mean, we had they were setting the like groundwork. It did. It did feel like the the moment where it became more of a national thing or more thing that the casual person was thinking about.

And then you guys saved the Republic by getting us two more senators at least, even though we haven't really done enough with the advantage that we don't have. Anyways, we don't need to get into that. And then you think about how much attention and credit women's soccer gets for things. Yes.

It's so fascinating and well, Megan and Sue, why would you say that women's soccer tends to be more celebrated in this country than the WNBA is? Well, and I mean, really just very bluntly, in our country, that is white supremacists founded heteronormative-gendered women. Of course, it's like, we're cute and white. Right. We talk about this all the time.

It's like, we're cute and white and more palatable, and we get to represent America, you know, with the playing for the US as our primary thing. I mean, I just it's like, I, I just can't get to any other conclusion other than the WNBA is like tall, and black, and everyone thinks everyone's gay. And think about the society that that we live in. And they're always compared to the counterparts, which is the NBA.

And I think people in America have a much better knowledge of basketball than soccer traditionally. And so, I mean, even when people say like, oh, you guys are so much better than the men, I'm like, yeah, it's really not like the goal, first of all. And also it just leaves out so much nuance where I think like, you know, I'm like, yeah, it's really not like the goal, first of all. And also that's just like, it's just leaves out so much nuance where I think like, you know, every LA fitness, YMCA basketball guy, like thinks that he could be the best player in the WNBA and he just can't.

So I think it's really simple. I think that's why. Yep. I think so too. Yeah. My massive sports background. So you had all these meetings and run ins. Sue, when did you know, oh, shit, I'm in love with Megan.

Or I like Megan even. No, I want to know like, we're going to get there. We're like on a timeline. Obviously, she liked Megan when she was so nerdy and was tried to like be cool at the at the Olympic thing. Right. But like, when were you like, uh oh. And by the way, I want everyone to know who's listening, that they just had like a little sidebar to like get their stories straight.

Which is what we always do. Okay, wait, timing shit. Are we gonna share that? I think the one part that's always just a little, like I was with someone, so I never wanna like disrespect that person. And you know, I think- We have the same scenario.

So like, get that. Yeah, it's like there was emotional overlap, which is overlap. And that's, you know, what it is and not not I wish it didn't happen that way. But it did. So that's right. So preface with that what we were side chatting about was so there's okay, so this is one of those experiences where I feel like a lot of people have this experience. Okay, had Megan and I never ended up together, I never would have even remembered some of these little moments. They just would have been these like little bloops in your mind that come and go. And it just it just never would have been like a big huge factor. But because we did, we can look back on it and be like, Oh, actually. So one of them is at that Olympics. Oh yeah, so she was at the after party.

We're all having fun. And she was standing over and I was like bringing her a drink and like making sure she was all set, that kind of a thing. Just being a good host, you know? Like you were just kind of chilling. It was like, you know, me and Sarah at the time. And then I think like Jess and Mary were around. Like we didn't really know anyone.

So we were just kind of like posted up at this like, you know, tall table, just kind of standing and chilling and listening and like, just being like, I don't know what we're doing here, but we're here. And we got on the boat and it took us three days because you had to give your passport. And it was like a whole scene. So we're like, we're here.

Yeah, we're top security. So yeah, so I kept like checking in on them, I guess, to be like, hey, you know. And at one point, you know, one of my close friends is Diana Tarazi. We obviously know each other very well. So I like had just left the table for probably like the fifth time or something, like walked away. And she comes out to me, she goes and get the fuck away from that table. And I was like, but she was like, I know what's happening. fuck away from that table. And I was like, what? She was like, I know what's happening.

Get away from that table. You two know each other well. Yeah, and I was like, shut up, you know, like whatever, whatever. So again, had, you know, we never ended up together. That wouldn't even be, I mean, I guess I would remember it cause it's funny, but it just was like, whatever.

But now looking back, I clearly was like, caring for her in this way. I was caring, yes. Like I was like caring for her. I was like wanting to be near, but not in a disrespectful way. That's I guess what I'm getting at. You weren't like prowling. You just legitimately like Diana saw it and was like, get the fuck away from the table. That's so interesting. So that's like, so she's never cared about being a host this much. Yeah, she does.

It's sweet. She was trying to protect you, you know, those are the kind of friends you have. And now looking back, I think that Dee was also trying to bring this to Sue's attention on a more conscious level because Dee. Wanted it to happen for you. That's not your take. Yeah, I think so. But also it's like this funny thing where like, it's like we all know each other because of course I know who Diana Terrasias, of course I know who Sue Bird is.

Like we all sort of like know each other, but we don't really know. I feel like women's sports is getting better at that or like women in sports or even just like entertainment or whatever. Like, I feel like we get a little more self conscious whereas the guys are out there like, yo, what's up? Like, of course I know who you are. And like, I feel like it was a little these kind of funny and the same. She's like, I don't want any new friends, but like that one seems that I could do

a one new friend. Oh, so she think you think. But I think she was like, oh, I hope she ends up with Megan because Megan seems cool and I want to be her friend. No, well, a little bit of both, but I think also she's like, one is like, no, no, no. I'm just kidding. No, no, not at all.

Wanted you to find someone who loves you. She recognized how amazing you are. And was like, my friend should be with me. I mean, I kind of walked myself into that, but yeah, basically. What is, just gonna switch gears real quick. What do y'all fight about the most? Oh God. I mean, presently Zoom calls,

like one is on one and the other one is making noise. This is a huge, big issue in this household. It's a big issue. It's just, I couldn't be more, I couldn't be more hypocritical about the way that I operate on Zoom for myself. And then like the way that I operate when Sue's on Zoom. It's just, I'm like death eyeing her if she makes one noise. If I make, if I like literally put the mug down on the thing.

Yeah, I did have a little mug down on the thing. Yeah, she goes. Yeah, I did have a little zoom. This is classic. I did have a zoom incident. I am loud off zoom. I don't know why. We were in our place in New York. We've just bought a place in New York.

There's nothing really in it. Yeah, you guys will definitely have to come visit. Yes, for sure. So it's really empty. So it's very echoey already. Things are loud. I feel like you need to tell it, but. No, I mean, I just love every time.

We've told this, we've shared this story just like a couple of times. Now it's going out to the masses. Now everyone will know. Because you know they have the number one podcast in the world. I know, I've heard. I don't make the rules. She always loves to, at the start, say,

it was very echoey. And it's like, yes, that's true because we didn't have furniture, but also it was loud enough. And I was on a Zoom call that was actually casual. It wasn't like a podcast or a recording. I was talking to like... It was our accountant. Yeah, well, yeah.

And our financial advisor, but that's fine. Well, I wasn't going to put a name on it because now if they listen, they're going to know. It's going to confirm what they probably thought. So we're on the call and out of nowhere, I hear, I'll be off camera for a second, I hear, well I can't because the mic's far. I hear, and I was like, oh this bitch just farted. I didn't mean it. I did not mean it.

I was actually farted. I'm almost impossible to embarrass. I actually was like a little embarrassed. I texted her. I was like, I texted her. I was like, they just heard you fart. Oh my God. We all just heard you fart. Well, it actually probably sounds like Sue farted.

And she's like, excuse me. But you don't want to stop and say, actually, that was Megan. Actually. You know what, Abby? I never thought that they thought it excuse me. But you don't want to stop and say, actually, that was Megan. Yeah. Actually. You know what, Abby? I never thought that they thought it was me. So I feel like they knew it wasn't you. That's kind of hitting me hard right now. I feel like they knew it wasn't you.

It didn't sound. It was further away. I was 15 feet away, minimum, I was in the hall. It was really funny. Anyway, so we fight about the Zoom stuff. That was really funny. And how do you all fight? Yeah.

Like who, who's more controlling in your relationship? I feel like we communicate pretty well. So we're not ever like, fighting. Yeah, like fighting. I'm definitely not a big fighter like that. No, Megan's not. I don't like to do that. I actually will say to her sometimes,

I'm like, you remind me of when, okay, so in sports, referees are a big pain in the ass, right? So sometimes you'll like look at them and be like, what the hell was that? And the referees that go, you're right, my bad. You can't argue. They just like nip you and that they like neuter you almost. And you're just like, and you want to have this because a lot of referees will be like, I didn't see it that way.

And then you have that's your chance to be like, well, you didn't just see that girl hit the other, you know, you didn't see this, you didn't see that. And then when they argue back with you, it's like this back and forth. But when a referee says, you're right, it just ends it. And sometimes I'll be like, you're acting like you're acting like that referee right now because, but this is a compliment actually, what Megan is really good at is like, she hears you.

She's like understanding and processing your, for lack of a better complaint. And she goes, okay, yeah, I see that, you're right. But then when you're kind of upset about something, it just kind of like, right? The thing is like, I'm not doing this as a way of manipulation. Like, I didn't realize that I had to get to a place. I'm actually

just apologizing. Because you thought it was just passive aggressive, right? Yes. Yes. And I was like, argue with me, please. And I'm like, I actually, what you just said, barely hit the nail on the head and that's not cool of me. And I am apologizing. The problem is that some of these things are like character traits, where I would love to say that I'm going to remember

about the light bulbs. I'm probably not ever in my life gonna remember all the time about the light bulbs. I'm like a psycho light task. Shutting the lights off, like when we leave the house, I just think, isn't that like kind of commonplace? You also, I mean, to steal something from your guys' podcast with the ticker, I think Amanda was talking about it, of like the daily tasks.

And like Sue also lives in 3022 for everything. And like, I would love to say that my. It's called efficiency. Super efficient, super smart, like, like way ahead on things. Like she's already, it's already shown up at the door and I'm like, wow, we should probably think about getting paper towels. And she's like, I have it on subscription, like to the exact amount that we need. No, you're not psycho at all.

It's actually amazing, but you carry a lot of the, like the household daily ticker tasks. And so of course that gets old. I think you like doing it, but also like it gets old. And you want your partner to like. Yeah. And so then when I say sorry about stuff, knowing, you know, we both kind of know full well at this point, like, is it going to change a lot?

I don't know. So then it feels sorry about I'm saying sorry and then not changing my behavior. So that's what we talk about. I think that's something that we fight about probably with both of us. Like the theme of that. Yeah. Because I feel like we're both very self-aware. We're both like, you know, looking in.

We're both understanding. We both have that. But then it's like, sometimes I just feel like you have to accept shit about your partner because it's not changing. They are who they are. It's like we can always be better, but you're not going to change the core of who your partner is. I very much believe that.

When we spend so much time together, the same themes keep coming up and up and up. I feel like the more we can just accept that some of these things your partner is going to drive you nuts about all the time. And I have found that some things that I've let go of, it's just better for me because like, ultimately it's not going to change. So I'm either mad about it all the time or I'm just like, that's her and that's okay. I mean, Megan, since you've known Abby for so long, I want you to know that I spent the first four years of our relationship trying to quiet her down. Like I thought maybe I could just,

if we keep talking about it, I could just- This is the volume. Lower her volume. Like that's never gonna fucking happen. No, I, my responsibility is just to go dead inside. Just to listen. Right. Just, just, just, that's never, just dead inside. And like, that's my job as a lover is to slowly die to that wish. And like for you, I'm never gonna put things back

in the right place. I'm never... I think we've gotten to a place where we're starting to accept that. Yeah, because what Megan's saying, if I say to you, I'm sorry, that implies that I'm gonna do it differently. And I'm never, ever gonna do it differently. Ever. That's right.

That's the thing, ever. No. Like it's just not going. Now we can become better things, more aware. We can do this. We can do that. But like the volume of Abby's voice is the volume of Abby's voice. Right. That's like a natural. That's like asking, you know, her to change who she is on the inside. It's just like hard. Not going to happen.

No. And it doesn't go well, Megan. Although I try. It doesn't go well. I will say, I do think that I have gotten less loud. Really do you? I do think that. Do you think someone tell you that? Or you just said your opinion? Who told you that? Because they lied. Yeah. Who told you that? Right. So there's this. I love that she said, she said, you know, I want a partner that partners. I love that. It's so good. But she does. I mean, I'm sure same. It's like, you know, I want a partner that partners. I love that. It's so good.

But she does. I mean, I'm sure same. It's like you do. Yeah, it's just there's these certain areas that are more like my wheelhouse and I want her to participate in what I'm good at to like help. But then to her point, you have to realize that's not their thing. They're not going to think of these things. Yeah, this has been like the ongoing.

The ticker's fascinating. That thing has changed my life. Like now I have to actually like write it down, like ticker. So she'll walk into the room. She's like, what are you doing? I'm like, I'm tickering right now. And it's just like I'm literally sitting there by myself thinking of all the things that needs to get done.

Yeah, it's awesome. Yeah. You guys gave me a real word about that. I had to look in the mirror about that because I think it was Amanda who said like when her husband comes in and he's like, how can I help that further proves you have no idea what is going on in our life? And I would ask Sue, how can I help like an idiot? And I got it. I was like, Oh my god, I'm doing this like awful thing that just then I say, Oh, how can I help which further proves how much I'm totally out of the loop. So I was like, you know what, figure it out, figure out a way that I can help figure, figure it out, Megan. I don't know. That's awesome. So thank you guys for that. We talk a lot on this podcast about boundaries.

Have you all had to, during this weird time, established any challenging boundaries with each other or with anybody else in the world that you can think of? Like family of origin stuff, the world, you guys have to deal with the world often and its feelings or each other. I actually can't think of anything. The only thing literally just happened yesterday. Some there's like sometimes where because we're always like gaming things out together, right? Whether it's like saving the world or what's going on, you know, in each of our teams or what's going on with our families.

Like there's always like we're gaming, we're talking, we're gaming things out. And I think one boundary we're starting to realize we need to set is we can't. Okay, so as somebody, as one of us is explaining something that's frustrating, that's happening, the other one in their attempt to be supportive can actually whip the other one up. So some, it's like, and because we, no, it's not, it's not just you. Mostly me. But it's like, so let's say, you know. Because I get fired up on your behalf.

Yes. Yes, but vice versa. And it's like, so one of us is like, can you believe this, this and that is happening? And I'm already, you know, I'm already whipped up and she'll like come in and whip me up even more. And it just happened yesterday where I was like, okay, this is actually not helpful now. Like I'm too whipped up. And I think I can do it for you.

I do it to you as well. And so it's like, that's like one thing I think we're starting to realize. I like to be whipped up. Yes! Whipped is my favorite. I want to whip up for like five hours in a row. Meanwhile, we get to the five hours, we haven't accomplished anything. That's right. So I feel like that's a boundary.

That's like, yeah, sometimes you just need the person to, yes, like be there and like listen and be supportive and or show you another side if that you're not seeing whatever the case is. But yeah, okay, maybe it is a me thing. For me then, I can't get, I'm already whipped. I've never heard anyone talk about that. That is such a huge situation. My sister and I, I mean, I can get on the phone with her

and say, I don't like, I don't like that. That person looked at me weird. In 20 minutes, we're both homicidal. We're both plotting the death of that person and how we can get away with it and remove the body. But I will tell you that there's, I believe there's an appropriate level of whippedness that everyone needs to get to, because I also don't like, I think our dynamic is I'm whipped and then you try to unwhip me. Yeah.

Yeah. Telling me everything's okay. That's frustrating too. You know when you're whipped up about something and somebody's like, well, I mean, let's look at it from their perspective and you're like, okay, no. Yeah. Yeah. So what's the right level?

What's helpful? Right. Like not, yeah. By the way, this is all very like situation dependent, topic dependent. Sometimes you do want to be, you want somebody to be like right there whipped up with you. But I think for me, it's a scenario where it's like my, one of my work environments. And I was finding that it like wasn't helping me to like go from, I was like zero to 50 and she sent me to a hundred. And that was like zero to 50 and she sent me to 100.

And that was like, this is my work environment. I can't be at 100. That was kind of sort of what was happening. So I think that it's like a good, somebody to meet your whiptness, but maybe not exceed, but not bring you down either. To your point, it is frustrating for someone to try to like calm you when you're not ready to be calmed.

And that's actually what I do. Sometimes I go to, she'll be talking about something and I immediately jump into solutions. And then I realize what happened. I'm like, yep, not yet. I get it. That was too soon. I'm like, does it look like I'm ready for a solution?

I'm in the middle of my bullshit. Yeah. Too soon on the solution. Yeah. And you are very solution oriented. I'm very solution oriented. I'm more like, not emotional, cause you are emotional, but I'm very solution oriented. I'm more like, not emotional, cause you are emotional,

but I'm more like get in the mix and like, you're an organizer and I'm like a fuck shit up in front of the microphone sort of thing. And like we have to, which we both get so much from each other. And, but it's like a balance of where, those are the boundaries. Where we need to sort of do that.

And that's the thing. So good, it's so beautiful. When Glennon comes to me, she's coming to me with real problems that are like life and death for people, you know? And so I don't wanna like live in that space 24 hours a day.

And so sometimes she'll just be like, can you please just not bright side this? Like, this is not a bright side-able moment. This is horrible. Like, this is bad. Like, let's a bright side-able moment. This is horrible. Like this is bad. Like let's just sit and feel bad for a little bit. And when that is kind of the consistent conversation, I'm like, fuck, I'm sad now. Now I'm actually sad. I like being sad. Yeah, that's true. Because I can like get to the thing and then get to the, what we're going to do

and then be done because that's what my work requires of me. Yeah. And you're like, oh, but for the rest of the day. For the rest of the day. I'm like, but is the world ending? I think that you just told me it is and now I'm supposed to deal with that. I don't know.

Yeah. Okay. I want to ask you guys some quick questions, like just a little rapid fire type thing, but it doesn't have to be rapid. Cause I've never actually. We'll do our best, but sometimes we get far winded. It's not, I've never done a rapid thing in my damn life. So I try to do rapid. I'm like, well, I need to give context. Don't worry about your rapidity. Okay. Which one of you is the more jealous one? And do you ever get jealous?

I am not generally a jealous person. I don't get like too whipped up about that, but also it hasn't really happened with you. And I feel like, what? I could be. Yeah. She's not. I'm not?

She's not. I think it's more me because she's literally not. Do you feel like you're jealous? I don't feel like you're. I'm more jealous. I don't know that I'm like a super jealous person. I'm more jealous. I'm more jealous contextually than you

or conceptually than you. I feel like we with your family. Super jealous person, I'm more jealous. I'm more jealous contextually than you, or conceptually than you. I feel like we're both jealous. Do you? No. You're definitely more jealous than me. And also, if somebody comes into our situation where I get a weird vibe with, I'm like, cut all ties.

Yes. Yeah, cut them off. Cut all ties. Yes. Yeah, cut them off. Cut all ties. Cause I've been, you know, traumatized in my past. And so when I feel the feeling, I like tell you, I'm like, that person crossed a boundary. I don't know what it is. Maybe nothing has happened.

Like literally, they're probably wonderful people. That's always a fun conversation. I've had it a few times. I can't ever speak to you again, nor can I explain to you why. Why? Godspeed. And then sometimes, I feel like it's like, sometimes it's like, I know that people are

vibing like you or, you know, whatever. And sometimes I just like, don't feel threatened. And I'm like, well, they want to, you do understand what's happening right now. Like they like you, but it's fine because I don't feel threatened by it. But if, don't ever give me anything to feel threatened by. That's so interesting. That's amazing to me. So is the fact that I feel jealous of certain people,

and I haven't been jealous for years, but that's also because we haven't seen any other human beings probably. That's right. COVID is true. Direct correlation. Yeah. COVID has made me a more mature person. But is it because I feel actually threatened? That's so embarrassing. I don't know. I don't either. I'll think about it. Okay. What do you guys do for fun? Yeah.

This is a theme for us. We try to figure out what is the thing that you do that isn't related to like your productivity or that you get nothing out of except for enjoyment. I keep trying to bring up things that we can do for fun together. Like I just brought up the other day. Like, I think we should get into pickleball. Like activities? She wants me to play a fucking sport with her. You'll learn when you get retired, Megan,

you'll learn that like, you're like, I don't know what I'm gonna do, what am I gonna do to work out and have fun? Cause you gotta do it at the same time. Well, we do just cause we have children and that takes up all of our day. I mean, I know the answer. Listen, okay, you go first and then I'll give mine.

I think what we do together really well is understand that we need other people. So like we have a great friend group that will make sure we get dinners in with or like plan a weekend and go like hang out at their house. We've done vacations. I think the dinners part is a big part of our life. Like finding a cool new restaurant or one that has been around forever that we've never been to. Kind of checking those boxes.

Those to me are like our outlets and things to do. I try to get her to do. I'm like, I love board games. And I've tried to get her into like backgammon or something like that. Even when I was teaching in Domino's the other day, you were just like not... I was like, wait, did you like it? Yeah, I did. I was like, did you?

I don't know. Did I? I don't know. Also, I think that there is something about my insecurity. You are so smart. And especially when we start playing games. Sue has the ability to hold 25 different fully gamed out situations in her head at one time. Every single day I leave for my workout, I forget something.

I just can't hold it all in my head. It's somewhere, but I think there's a little bit of that. You grew up playing games. I didn't really grow up playing games and stuff. I think that I just, the only thing I enjoy doing really outside of now, I say that like outside of my sport, which is a lot and outside of like what I consider my work, which is the activism and however we wanna say it, I don't even know if activism is the right word.

I just only really care about going to dinner with friends and having fun and seeing other people and just that community and whatever, and having conversation. Is talking a hobby? Yes, yes. We love talking. We love it. We love to play out scenarios or do debates

or talk about issues. I mean, especially with our closest friends, like we flush a lot out of like, what's our stance? How do we talk about it? What does this mean? Blah, blah, blah, blah. And of course I love shopping. We can't really do a lot of that now,

but I think that would be weird. Fashion and everything is like a form of self-expression for me and now like for you. It's becoming. Yeah, and it's like, outside of that, like I'm not hiking, I'm not doing other sports, I'm not doing other physical activities. No.

I don't, I've started to get into cooking a little bit. We'll see how long that lasts. But like, I'm also tired. Like our lives are busy and we have a lot and I just want to go to dinner, eat great food and like, but do you remember, have good wine? Do you remember early, like very early in our relationship? I had already, no, maybe that's not when it happened, but it was early in the relationship within maybe a year. And we were like trying to plan a vacation. And you said it first, but I was

thinking it and it was kind of like, well, we're going to invite other people, right? And I think it's like, but like that's, we and we're together, like actually in the early part of our relationship, we were together a lot, but then it was like, yeah, we like other people coming into our space or us going into theirs and like doing all the things we just said. That's magical to me. So do you all like the same sorts of people? Like is making friends hard for you? Are most of your friends queer couples? Do you ever have a couple where you're like, I don't like her, but the other one does?

How is that? It feels like it's so easy for you the way you're talking about it. You have, I have, yeah. I'm not as good as like keeping in touch. I feel like I have a lot of friends. They're just all over the place. That's like what sports does.

Yeah. It's really the sad part. And you've done a better job of keeping in touch and you have like a core friends in New York. Yeah. Like not necessarily the ones I grew up with. There's a couple, but just kind of through the years who you became friends

with from New York, where I'm from. And those are like the homies forever. And they've now adopted Megan. I think they like you better. No, not even close. Which is totally fine. But like they are now, Megan is like now in this group. Like they have their own individual friendships

and relationships. And that's, we've been lucky in that way that it's like kind of worked out like that. But no, we don't have a lot of new friends. No, no. It's kind of like we have such little time as it is. Making new friends is like hard and a lot. And then it's gonna like take away,

like it's hard to even schedule a dinner with the friends that the existing friends that we have. So it's like, I think that's- Where do you meet new friends? I don't know. I don't either. I have no idea. That to me is the saddest part.

One of the sadder parts about being an athlete is you grow up with someone or a team or a certain amount of teammates. You have all these experiences, all these shared experiences, the highs, the lows. These are like seriously deep relationships. Now you may not know their names of their siblings, but you're gonna know a lot of other things about them.

It's like this weird, unique thing. But at the same time, the ones you do become super close with, life goes on, you all live where you live. And then they're, like I spoke about Diana, she lives in Phoenix in California. And outside of the WNBA season, if I see her once a year, I feel lucky. And I know it's the same for you and a lot of your friends, like, I'm sure you guys spent all this time together. When's the last time you saw each other?

Like, it's just, and that to me is like the saddest part. Cause those relationships would continue to thrive and they just kind of get stunted cause you're so far away from each other. What's the most important thing to each of you and a friend and what's a deal breaker? Oh, there can be absolutely no bullshit. No, no, I don't. It's like no games, no bullshit, no dishonesty. No, we don't have time for this. Like I said, it's already difficult

enough to find time. And I feel like we have to deal with bullshit in all other ways. It's like, I don't want that, that like, friction, it just feels like a waste of time. Like, why am I spending time with this person if they're even making me like question anything and sort of that, that trust, like I feel like our friend group in New York and even friends that I have kind of scattered, there's just this trust that like, if I don't talk to you for three months, it's fine, we'll just pick up at

dinner or like, we're always there to kind of support each other and like have each other's back. It has to be that sort of easy feeling. Otherwise I would just rather like not in a mean way, I would just like rather not hang out. It's totally fine. Like we clearly don't vibe or something, but like, if it's not a hundred, it's kind of not worth it.

Like we'd rather just chill with, you know, with ourselves or like with other friends that we have the kind of like forced situation. I'm just like, and I don't know if it comes from being in sports so long. Like I can get along with anyone who's put me at any dinner table in the entire world. It's like, fine. I know the conversation, I can like have conversation, whatever. It's like, I've been forced to spend so much time with so many people that I would never choose. Not in a bad way. They wouldn't choose me either. But I've had so much of

that. I want zero of that. That's right. Like moving forward. The science, we just did this whole thing about friendship. And, and that's the science of friendship is like, it should be 100% or nothing. That we all have this idea that relationships should be suffering. But actually, friendships are the ones, things we get to choose. Right? Like, we don't get to choose our freaking family. Once we get married, we don't really get to choose our partner. That's like, done deal. Right? That's like... But our friendships are the one thing that we can be like, no, 100 or zero. It's good. No friction. And I think, you know, you guys are touching on a

lot of stuff that I've thought about, especially over the last five, six years of my retirement. Having these like friends that you, you go to camp, you're playing on your teams and you have people around all the time. One thing that I think will happen when you retire is you're gonna get really picky about the people that you spend. Because you all are so busy and having those friendships that you do get like chosen family. You know, a lot of especially gay women, not that you guys have bad family situations, but I just know that having other queer women in our lives is like really important to feel like you're having that sense of community in some way.

And they're just better. I mean, being gay is the best thing ever for like every reason under the sun. Thank God. Okay, we kept you for too long already. This is called, We Can Do Hard Things. What's the hardest thing you're dealing with right now before we leave in your life?

What's the hardest? I mean, I think for before we leave in your life? What's the hardest? I mean, I think for me, I've said I was going to play another year. It's more than likely my last. So there's the whole retirement, which is really code word for like identity and like, who are you without this? So that's like always just kind of swirling in the back, you know? Because then I had like,

I was saying earlier how some days I show up to the workout, I feel bad. Some days I feel good. On the good days, I'm like, maybe I just do this literally another couple of years. And I know that's just me holding on to the identity, not the game itself or any of those things. So I think that's probably the hardest thing I'm dealing with right now.

That's so honest and beautiful. Yeah, I mean, the, yeah, the aging athlete is, is tough because I can't, you know, my life has never been totally wrapped up in soccer. I've always felt my identity firmly in other places, which sometimes is like worse because I'm like, do you want to do this? Like, do you want to keep doing it? And a lot of other things are wrapped up in it. So that's a little bit. And then I think trying to live in a, like trying to create a world that takes me fully into account. Sure. You guys feel this way. I think you feel this way, being in women's sports. Like every day, I'm like, this is insane. Like the world that we live in is completely insane. It doesn't take

our full selves into account and so many other full selves into account. And so how do you, because it's not like we can just go to another planet and a more, you know, evolved place. Like this is where we are, but how do I like live outside of that while breaking that down, but like not getting bogged, bogged down by that, like almost like trying to live in the future and setting things up and doing things differently. I think is always like a challenge because it's just, it's like, we can't do things the same way that other, whether it's successful, you know, male athletes

or successful, you know, media people, whatever, like we can't do it the way that it was done. And it's a really difficult trap to not fall into because it, it like makes you think that you can. They're like, just do this and just do this and just do this and say this and blah, blah, blah. And then you get to the end where you've done everything and they're like, yeah, it's still not,

you're still not in. Yes, and listen, but there is, you have to keep doing that, Megan and Sue, because y'all are trailblazers. And trailblazers are always questioning themselves. Like whether we wanna believe that or not. Trailblazers are like, fuck, what am I doing? Sue, and I'm sure a lot of people tell you this,

you know, just really take in everything and enjoy your last year. And what I will tell you is that my life got so much better when I retired. It got so much better. The biggest fears that I had were where I was gonna make money, how I was gonna make money, and what I was gonna do to get healthcare. And the truth is I've made more money in my retirement, much, by just like actually giving

more time to myself to like create things and do things that I want to do. And that's the beauty of being a woman athlete. There's plenty of chances to make more when you stop. That's actually the wild part. I think that's what's hard to wrap your head around. Like being told, I think kind of what you're saying is, you're not valued as maybe an athlete, right? In the moment, like WNBA, we get, I mean, the hate is like crazy.

So you feel like lesser than, but then you walk off the court and, you know, a company wants to sponsor you or somebody wants to hear you speak and then you're told you're valued because of this. And so it's just like, what? Like I don't, that's to me, that's where it's like banging my head against the wall.

Yeah, I think that's actually the thing that is the hardest all the time. And particularly for me since 2019 is like the balance between doing my job, which is playing soccer, at least it's one of my jobs, but it's kind of like the cornerstone job, even though it's like the one where I get treated the worst, paid the worst, and all the conditions are the worst. Everything else kind of is, you know, not relying on it, but you know, sort of predicated, whatever. And so what's the balance between doing my job

and then securing my financial future? Because especially being older, post 2019, I'm not an idiot and I'm not gonna be like, no, I'm gonna focus 100% on soccer so I can be the best player that I can be and totally forego my financial security in the future, nor should I have to. But every minute that you go this way, it takes away from soccer. And then just constantly feeling like you're at odds with yourself and with your career

and all of that and how difficult it is to actually just be a women's professional player in any sort of league with coupling that with this weird, you know, world that's exploded for us kind of off the field. So it's just, it's constantly trying not to hate everyone all the time. Yes! Basically. Yes! It's like.

Yes! That's right. I hate to say this and it's probably gonna get like, you know, clipped by a Washington Examiner, but sometimes I'm just like, I hate everyone for everything that you do to all of us. It's so frustrating. It's so frustrating. It's so fucking infuriating because here's the thing.

Yeah. Like you don't, y'all should, y'all should be able to at this age, at this time in your life, be able to walk away completely fine and financially set for life. But like we're women athletes. So it's like constantly fighting that battle and-

No, totally. And like fighting the powers that be to break things down. But I would really love to just quite frankly, never deal with U.S. soccer ever again. That would be my goal. That's going to be the clip. I know. That's going to be the clip. And honestly, I've to say that right to the board because it's just, they're just...

Have they given us a platform? Yes. Have we been one of the best supported teams in the world? Better than awful doesn't mean good, but okay. Yes, like I understand that there is good with it, but like to feel like in so many other parts of my life, I'm like moving on and being more, you know, open-minded and progressive and working with people that are not just like-minded in the sense of like a feedback loop, but actually view me the way that

I view myself and I want myself to be viewed as a whole human and I view them that way and like we view each other that way and then sometimes we get stuck back in these old antiquated ways that just yeah go ahead. I like love to use whether it's like movie quotes or like things you saw somewhere and like bring it all back around and I don't know why this ever stuck in my head, but I feel like I say it pretty often. It's from the movie Selena, and it's when her dad is like, we have to be more Mexican than the Mexicans and more American than the Americans.

And I feel like that is the life of a female athlete. You have to be like, whatever it is you're supposed to be over here, you have to be that times a thousand, and whatever it is you're supposed to be over here, that have to be that times a thousand, and whatever it is you're supposed to be over here, that times a thousand. And you're just stuck in these places. And it's actually different for every athlete, because everyone kind of has their own lane,

for lack of a better, that it might show up in. But yeah, it's like Selena's dad said. That's how I feel all the time. I don't know if we're going to name this podcast, I Hate Everybody, or it's Like Selena's Dad Said, because I love both. Yeah, that's good.

Well, maybe we'll title it, It's Like Selena's Dad Said. I Hate Everybody. I hate everybody. Right? But it's just constantly that. This is all such big stuff. stuff and what you're talking about having evolved past an institution that you have to stay in. I have a friend who talks about a Zen koan, which is like there's a goose that's growing inside of a glass bottle, right? How do you get the goose outside of the bottle without hurting the goose or shattering the bottle. And I see you, Megan, trying to do that so beautifully

where you have this bottle that is so fucked up and so small, but is the only container for these younger women coming up. So you know you can't say burn it all down, even though that's what you do want to say, because then you have to come back 20 times and say, I didn't mean burn it all down even though that's what you do want to say because then you have to come back 20 times and say I didn't mean burn it down. I meant like Put a fire on a little little

It's totally and it's like really what I want to do being the goose inside the bottle. I'm just I'll break the bottle It's fine. I don't care if I cut my foot on the way out. That's totally fine But then don't look at me and be like, Oh my God, did you break the bottle? That's very destructive. And I'm like, okay, well, I'm sorry. I couldn't fit the lower half of my body through that tiny opening at the top. Like it's like, it's like people want to acknowledge for female athletes now, or women who play, you know, female sports, like we know it's not what it needs to be.

But also don't talk about that too much and don't push too much. And also we'll be the ones that'll continue to set the benchmarks or make the rules or whatever, when actually we do have all the answers. I firmly believe that. I feel me and Jessica Clarendon, the woman that I work with full time now, Lejia Clarendon is her wife, so obviously, we have like this whole fuck it up brain trust going on,

at least we try to. We always talk about living in the future and like just telling people like, it's gonna be okay, you guys aren't gonna die, come with us, it's like everything is gonna be okay. But we do kind of know how to live in the future. And like, I feel like if you gave us the keys, I'm sure you guys feel this way,

like to whatever institution, whether it's sports or media or this, like I could do a good job, I just know that. And, but it's like, how many other people think that? You know, is it just us thinking that? And you know, having to try to convince everyone else, like we know what's going on, but yeah. Well, if we want to know how to do it,

we can watch the WNBA. I mean, that is true. For fuck's sake. The T-shirt the goose has on. Yeah, it says vote warm up. In the glass bottle of the WNBA will lead the way. Right? We adore both of you.

Megan, I've adored you forever, but Sue, I just knew you'd be as wonderful as you are. Oh! And thank you Sue for your intense gentleness. I have noticed that every time you start to say something that is a sports metaphor, you start it with, in sports, and I know you're talking to me and trying to help me through. And I notice that I see you and I in sports. And I know you're talking to me and trying to help me through.

And I notice it. I see you and I thank you. I love your take on sports. Yeah, we love it. I actually feel more. Your Twitter feed. I feel closer to you in the way that I feel about sports than anything else that I've ever read or whatever. I'm just, I always say the sports.

I'm like, go sports. Like what, and like, and it's just a wild space. And I'm like, this is so weird, go sports. So anytime you chime in, it's just the best thing ever. I'm like, what she said. Yeah. So good. It's a beautiful thing to come to the sports

with beginner's mind. Well, you're lucky. I mean, y'all are just, you're all our icons, not just sports icons, but really feminists and women in the world that are doing world changing things. And I can't wait for y'all to retire. The world actually kind of needs you on the side of the... New friends. Yeah. Yeah.

I'm excited for it too. I'm excited to see what happens when they're out of the bottle. I'm excited to see what happens when they're out of the bottle. We love you. Go do all the things. Try to be quiet when each other is on Zoom meetings. Megan, stop being such a hypocrite. It's so true. So you share your feelings. And to the rest of you.

Oh, they're so cute. They are so cute. I'm so glad you have each other. All right. When things get hard this week, don't forget we can do hard things. That's right. See you back next week. If this podcast means something to you, it would mean so much to us.

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We Can Do Hard Things is created and hosted by Glennon Doyle, Abby Wambach, and Amanda Doyle in partnership with Odyssey. Our executive producer is Jenna Wise-Berman, and the show is produced by Lauren Legrasso, Alison Schott, Dina Kleiner, and Bill Schultz.