We Can Do Hard Things with Glennon Doyle - Which Day of the Week Are You?

Episode Date: October 8, 2024

352. Which Day of the Week Are You? Abby, Glennon and Amanda discuss what day of the week they each are, why we do things we don’t want to do, and how to stop giving unsolicited advice. Discover: -Why we should celebrate divorce and endings more; -Unsolicited advice and what to do if you find yourself giving it; -Why you might be engaging in trauma reenactment; and  -What’s happening when you feel the Sunday Scaries. To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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Yeah! Save big on Prime Big Deal Days, October 8th and 9th. Okay, Pod Squad, today is a very big day, at least in my world, because my debut picture book, The Wolf Pack Way, it is here and it is available now wherever books are sold. I can't actually believe it. I can't.

I know it's so precious and wonderful. And I'm so happy for you and all the little ones. I know, but it's been like five years since the launch of the Mama Bear, the Wolf Pack book. I know. So it's just been such an honor to have shared that adaptation of my 2018 Barnard speech. The speech in which I said this,

if I could go back and tell myself one thing, it would be this, you were never little red riding hood. You were always the wolf. And I know in my bones that everything depends on young people becoming, creating, and demanding a better way forward. So I took my number one New York Times bestseller, Wolfpack, and I adapted it for young readers

because I want to do my part in ensuring that the next generation, you know, knows that you are the wolves and you have the power to change the world. It's been incredible to hear stories from and witness so many folks across different generations and backgrounds living out the Wolf Pack ethos, unleashing their power, uniting their pack and changing the game. unleashing their power, uniting their pack, and changing the game. Now, today, in celebration of the fifth year since Wolfpack's release, I'm thrilled to share the Wolfpack way for an even younger generation.

The Wolfpups. This picture book edition, It's illustrated by the amazing Debbie Ramalia. It's just such a joyful read aloud that will encourage kids to be their true selves, dream big, and work together as a pack to change the world. The Wolf Pack Way is dedicated to our goddaughter, Drew. Hi, Drew! We love you, Drew! Your godmommies love you Drew! And all the Wambach wolf pups. May you always know the power of your howl and the strength of your pack. I really hope you love it as much as I do. Welcome! Welcome. Welcome to We Can Do Hard Things. We should have an episode about how interesting it is to work with your family. With your wife, your best friend, and the person who annoys you the most in the world.

Which one is that? I am the one that annoys her the most in the world. I don't know. I feel like on any given Sunday, it could all flop. I mean, don't you think I feel like the question of our days is as follows. Is Abby irritating or am I just irritable? This is the never settled question of our lives. No, this is the never settled question of your life.

Huh. I'm just over here being myself. Yeah. I think it might here being myself. Yeah. I think it might just be a false binary like all the rest of them. I think the answer to that question, Glennon, might be yes. Okay. So you don't worry about this situation, babe? Define worry.

I think, oh, Glennon's annoyed at me because I'm doing something irritating to her. Oh. But that doesn't like send you into a spin. No. Okay, here is a question that Abby asked me recently because she saw this question on a reel and we had fun answering it. Okay, and now we want to ask sister this and then we want all the pod squad to think about what they, their answer for themselves would be. Okay. The question is, what day of the week are you and why? And you can't overthink it. Okay. So Amanda, what day of the week are you and why?

Friday. Oh, cool. Because I feel like 90% of the value of experiences to me is anticipation. So I feel like Friday has the largest runway of anticipated delights, because you've got Friday night, you've got Saturday, you've got Sunday. I also feel like I really like working. So I feel like Friday is like a really nice mix of part of the day is the working and the doing things, but you know, at the end of it, you're like, I'm free.

So it's kind of like both worlds. I also feel like Friday is a little like tofu because it's like if you have a lot of work, Friday could be seen as like a work day. Tastes like a work day Friday. But if you put it in a different sauce, Friday is the weekend. It depends on your perspective. Is Friday a weekend? Is Friday a work week? But why is that tofu? It could be plain tofu or it could be a marinated tofu. Oh, well, tofu takes on the taste of whatever it is put in, right?

So tofu can taste like a fricking hot dog or tofu can taste like curry or tofu just assumes the position and tofu becomes whatever. So I often am worried like with my kids, I tell them not to be tofu. You can't just become whatever is the vibe of the friend group you're in.

You have to like be the flavors you are. Don't be tofu. That's good. Oh, that's good. I love that. And I love that you are also honoring like the fact that you like to work, which I am gonna ask you a follow-up question about.

Do you actually like to work or do you like to have had worked? No, I like to work. I like to work on things that I like to figure things out. I don't really like too much of one thing. My favorite kind of day would be a day that I got to do some of all the things I like. It's not like I look forward the most days to,

oh, I won't even touch any work. It's like, I want, I don't want 90% of my, any particular day to be any one thing. That's good. And it's like, Friday is a great day because you're like, I can work today because I don't have to work tomorrow. And the's like Friday is a great day because you're like, I can work today because I don't have to work tomorrow. And the energy of Friday is like, it's just warm.

I mean, you just didn't like a Friday. I hope I'm a Friday. I don't know, I'm probably a Tuesday to most people. Okay, so to yourself, you're a Friday. What do you think people think of you? That's how you see yourself. How do you think the world sees you? I mean, I really hope they see me as a Friday.

Okay. I feel like maybe some people see me as a Friday. Love it. Love it. But maybe, I mean, definitely some people see me as a Tuesday, which is clearly the worst day of the week. Some people- Oh, is it? Maybe see me as a Friday. I reject the idea of you as a Tuesday. I reject the idea of you as a Tuesday, which is clearly the worst day of the week. Some people may be seen as a Friday.

I reject the idea of you as a Tuesday. I reject the idea of you as a Tuesday. Thank you. Maybe a hump day. Like I'm a little bit like, oh, get in a room. No, now I'm gonna say words that don't make sense, but they make sense to me. Definitely not a Tuesday.

Definitely not a Wednesday. I could see you as a Friday. I could also see you as a Monday. It's very like Aries energy, you know? Monday is like, let's fucking go. Right. It's Monday, let's go. Here we go.

Right, right, right. Like I could see, but Tuesday and Wednesday, that is not you. Okay. And I have no idea why. What are you guys? What are you? I'm a Saturday all day.

Yeah, yeah. Are you a Sunday, Glennon? I'm a Saturday all day. Yeah, yeah. Are you a Sunday, Glennon? I'm a bigot, yeah. For sure. Yeah, is it like Sunday morning? Cause you're so easy breezy. Okay, tell me why you're Saturday, Ebi. I'm Saturday because I don't like to work.

You just wanna bang on your drum all day? Yeah, I like to be on vacation feel and vibe. And I like the idea of being able to like sleep in if I wanted to. I also like the knowing that there could be more like family time because there's no school. I like knowing that there's also a Sunday tomorrow that there's no work tomorrow.

If I didn't have to work another day in my life, I would be great with that. But I thought you liked to speak. I know that I get self-esteem out of making money and being useful in the family and the world. But if I didn't have to work another day of my life, I would be just fine. I would find so many fun things to do.

I would experience so many fun things to do. I would experience so many fun things. I know you would. I know you would. Also, I work out every day of the week, like I lift Monday through Friday. And so I like the not needing to do, not feeling like I need to do anything physical on Saturday and Sunday.

It's your day off. Yeah, but we usually go on walks on the weekends. It's not technically my day off, but yes, it is the day that I don't feel like I have to do anything. Do you want to know why I'm Sunday? Yeah, why, why, why? Okay, I like Sundays because as follows, I feel like Saturday, the world is always having requirements of our family. It feels like Saturday is a day off, but there's always soccer games or school things, or there's just things that you have to do.

So you're like with your people, but kind of not really, because you're still doing stuff that people make you come to. So I like Sundays because it's very like, everyone leaves you alone and it feels slower and the energy feels like we're settling down. Saturday feels just still feels go, go, go to me, but in a different way. And Sunday feels slower and like everyone's gonna be lazy

and there's gonna be couch time and it's just like a settling. If we had a podcast because a lot of times we record our podcasts on Tuesdays so we don't technically do a podcast recording on Monday which could feel like we aren't doing hard-ish work like the stuff. If we had recordings on Mondays, would Sunday still be your day? Because I have Sunday Scaries. I would never make this the recordings Monday, because I don't want Sunday Scaries. Sunday Scaries are very scary. When I used to teach, I had Sunday Scaries so bad. And I don't, like, let's just talk about Sunday Scaries for a minute because I have thought about what that is a lot and I think it's because we are scared on Sunday anticipating

how in the world we're going to become Monday's we can't even remember what our Monday selves are like because we are these people on Sundays who are vulnerable and human and we can't even imagine. It's always okay because I think Sunday scaries are the fear that we're somehow going to have to take our vulnerable Sunday selves into Monday. Like we're not going to transform again into like Sunday is for humaning and Monday is for adulting. And we do become our Monday selves on Monday morning, as sad as that is. But Sunday's scaries are like, what if I don't? What if I stay this like juicy, rusty, gentle, open, vulnerable, mushy, dirty, unshowered person on Monday.

We forget we're gonna transform. It's gonna be okay. But it feels like we're gonna walk into battle naked or something. Well, I think a lot of us live dissociated, right? Our happiness on the weekend is because of the absence of our weekday despair. It's like a lot of people don't like what they do all week or they feel like the obligations

or the overwhelming burdens. And so I think it's kind of like how people say relief is, is as close to joy as it's like we have the relief from that. And so it feels like joy, but when the relief is removed and you're back to doing the thing you dread, then you have to just like remember that it exists. It's like a re-entry, you know, it's like a pause and then a re-entry to that where you have to be like, oh God, okay, I remember exactly what I was thinking about on Friday at six when I stopped and I have to like

remember it and then I have to put myself up for it and I have to be like prepared to do it, you know? It's kind of sad, because if we were more integrated people and we were allowed to have more integrated lives we'd probably have less Sunday scaries and dread on Sunday night imagining you know. I don't necessarily dread work at all I actually enjoy what I do like I actually enjoy it just not as much as doing no work. I want to be clear about that. I love it. One other thing about weekdays. It used to be that Sundays were not a thing of activities.

Remember and I understand this comes from like the reduction of religiosity in America, etc. Where it was like, it used to be like every store was closed on Sunday. Then it was like, all right, well stores stores are now 12 to 5. They have reduced hours. And then it was never an activity. People didn't use to have birthday parties on Sundays. People didn't use to have sports on Sundays. And then we like switched into Sunday, at least where we live, is a free for all. Like Sunday is the equivalent of Saturday. Everything is as planned. We always have double header games on Sundays. It's very interesting.

Likewise, this COVID slippage of starting times for things is something we should talk about. It used to be any practice earliest possible it starts is like 5.30 on a weekday. AM? No, no, no, 5. 5 30 on a weekday. AM? No, no, no. 5 30 PM on a weekday. Like the assumption being people work

and people who have a traditional, like people who have untraditional hours were never accommodated. But at least the idea that a family unit could be anticipated to have to work till five o'clock and not get their child any place before then. Then during COVID, it was like, well, there is no schedules anymore. So our practices start at four. And then it never went away from that. So I'm wondering how the hell are people getting to these things?

I don't know. I do not know. And I have two people who I work from home every day. John works from home a bunch, at least a couple days a week. We have my mom down the street. And like, how the hell are people doing this who don't have the luxury of ridiculous support systems to get to their kid 45 minutes away for a 430 practice. It's so wild. I think about it all the time.

I mean, we have extremely flexible jobs. We have three parents. And still can't get to everything. And the amount of things that are scheduled for the middle of the day, come to your kids so and so at 10 a.m. at 1 p.m. It is as if we've forgotten. We have forgotten that most parents

are working their asses off all day. And then it's like, then you have to explain to your kid that you can't because you're working. So like, it's actually not at all right. It isn't right. And it's the kids play the price and it's like the rich get richer, right? Because if the flexibility goes hand in hand

with autonomy, which goes hand in hand with being able to set your schedule or ask for accommodations or whatever it is. And so if you're a person who can't do that, you aren't integrated into the school. Your kid feels left out. I mean, it sucks, man. It really sucks. And most families have to have second jobs just to afford the ability for the kids to be on this freaking team. Yeah, not to mention that. Exactly. Sports are so expensive. Anyway, so that's another thing.

I just feel for people a lot when we're doing the thing of getting them somewhere at four o'clock and I'm like, this really sucks. If I was a single mom, I could not do this. So my kid wouldn't be on this team. Yeah. I think at least having a similar conversation to this with kids is good. So that they don't just constantly feel like my mom, my parents can't show up, but like really explaining to them how messed up this system is.

So that they understand that it's not an issue of love or desire to be there. That most people are working so hard because of love and desire to provide, and that is why they can't be at all the things. Okay, let's hear from a pod squatter named Whitney. Hi, my name is Whitney Sheher. And my question is, well, how do I let things go. I have had a really hard 10 months. I was laid off 10 months ago from a company I was with for 15 years and I can't let it go. I am still angry. I still have trauma from it.

And I just don't know how to move on. And here's the kicker. I'm still applying to jobs at this company. Why am I doing that? Why am I doing this to myself? I don't understand it. And I'm not getting those jobs. And then I'm becoming more and

more angry like why are they not hiring me? I'm a great fucking employee. What's wrong with you? And then I'm just not all over again. So how do I end this vicious cycle? I need to let it go and move on from this trauma and they just can't seem to do it. So please, any words of wisdom you might have to help this poor soul out and just move on with her life and just be free and have joy again. Please help. Please help me. Okay. I love you all so much. I listen to your pod whenever

I can. It's my therapy. I just thank you for everything you do. Okay. Bye. Whitney. I wanted to do this one because Whitney reminded me so much of what she's doing here seems a lot like trauma reenactment. Yes, I was thinking that when I was listening to her. What does that mean? Tell us what that is. So trauma reenactment,

which is also called repetition compulsion in the psychology world. It's this idea that we recreate a traumatic event over and over in our lives based on our desire for different results. And often there's like some varieties of it. Often we recreate it because it feels like comfort because that's what we grew up with. So we're just recreating the thing because even pain feels more comfortable than

novelty if it's what you're used to. But also oftentimes we're trying to like process through it. Like we never were able to process through it in our youth. And so we think by recreating it, we can understand what's going on and we can actually process through it like in real time now that we're older. And then the other way is coming out with a different result. We think if we recreate the same thing, have a different result, we will somehow retroactively repair what had happened. So to me, I mean, she did use the word trauma. Whitney understands that getting fired from her company that she was with for 15 years and that she was a great fucking employee for and just dismissed in this way was a trauma to her. And so the way that she keeps applying for

the same job with the same company that has clearly demonstrated that they don't value her, feels like that. It feels like you got broken up with in a traumatic way and you keep trying to get back together with the person who clearly demonstrated that they don't respect you because you just need the end to somehow be different. And then you just end up with compounding drama. Yeah, I think it makes perfect sense

that we all want a different ending. Okay, and Whitney, think about this as completely subconscious. Okay, you're not going back to, whenever somebody says, why am I doing this? I'm doing this thing I don't wanna do. Why am I like this? I'm doing this thing I don't want to do. Why am I like this? That is like the best.

That is the best moment because that's like, okay, here's the conflict. Now we have a behavior that is different than what I know my value is. That is, when you're like, why am I doing this thing? That is your clue that you are being guided by your subconscious and not your conscious, right? There's something underneath that is guiding the ship. You're like on autopilot

now We all have traumatic experiences What Amanda is saying that we enter into things thinking? Oh this time I will enter into the same story, but it will somehow magically, through my agency, through different circumstances, through whatever, it will end differently this time.

And that will give me the closure that I have always needed. That will make the universe right in this way that it has never been right. But the problem is that the way we do that is we enter into the same story beginning in hopes that the ending will be different. And that is what we do over and over again. We somehow think we see a story's beginning, and it feels familiar to us. So we're like, yes, this beginning, and then I'll make the end different.

When what we have to do is enter into a different beginning. Not the same beginning, hoping the end will be different. The way that the end is different is if the beginning is different. That is my experience. But it's the hardest thing because of what you said, because our bodies and our spirits are conditioned to prefer a painful comfort

as opposed instead of a novelty, a different beginning. So if in fact this is Whitney's subconscious guiding her towards the same beginning, the same beginning in hopes of a different ending, what Whitney is saying is, my spirit knows that I shouldn't begin again here. Why do I keep trying? You keep trying because this is, what's the word for it? The word is trauma reenactment, repetition compulsion. And it's very, very natural. Oh yeah. Yes, we all do it.

I did it for 25 years about a former partner. I just had to get real honest with myself and I think so does Whitney. I had to get excruciatingly honest with myself that she just wasn't that into me. Start a new beginning with someone else. Instead of finding another person who's not that into me because this time I will fix this person

and that will somehow heal my past wounds. It will heal all of it. So this is the way we, you know, people who are attracted to addicts, okay, they get in relationship with an addicted person, it goes haywire, it goes shit. And so the next time, instead of maybe choosing someone who is not an active addiction, that is not what we do.

We choose another person who is an addiction because this time it will end better and I'll figure it out. But what we could just do is start with someone, instead of trying to make someone sober, we could just start with someone sober. But you have to be super, super, cause like it's very easy. And there's a lot of shame in this.

Like you've heard the phrase a thousand times, her picker is broken. Her, you know, like, you know, people like to say about people that like, they, I don't know, they just always pick the wrong person. Or I don't know, they're just always stumbling into the same thing. But when you really think about it, it makes total sense.

Our brains are meaning making machines when things, and we need meaning more than we need a lot of other stuff. So it's like, if this came out of, if you got broken up with out of the blue and broke your heart, if your employer broke your heart by breaking up with you, and there's no good reason that you can ascertain for this, you need to understand it.

And so you need to believe that if one thing had been different, would everything be different, right? It's like, if I set this all up again, and I just insert a little agency here, insert a little control over here, deal with this one part a little differently, I can see how it would be different. I need to see it unfold that way.

And then there's a totally separate thing, which is like, we know how it goes to be with an addict. We know how it goes to keep getting together with a cheater. And in some ways, we either internalize that we deserve that kind of treatment, or we at least prefer familiarity with outcome than we do with unknown. Right? So I know that this is how it works. I did this guy for this long, then he cheats on me, then whatever. We get together, we break up, we get together, we break up for three more years, and then it's over. I know what to expect. If I start getting together with someone who, A,

I don't think I deserve, because they're a good, decent person, and B, I don't know how this goes, I don't know the script for this. That might be even scarier to me than being with the same person. So, I mean, I feel embarrassed and gross about this, but I remember after my divorce and I was probably like a year later or something, I was skiing and I met this dude who was a Navy SEAL. Okay, like last thing in my life I would have done is like gotten, but somehow in my subconscious, because my first husband was in my subconscious somehow, I was like, okay, this is where this thing happens. And then I break up with him and then it heals a thing

in me because I get to control the outcome here. Interesting. And it was as, a fucking disaster. We were on this ski trip, made plans that he was going to come. I didn't know this guy from that. I don't even remember this. I didn't know you skied. What's that?

I don't remember this at all. I didn't know you skied. I snowboarded. I didn't even know you dated at Navy Seal after the first. Yeah, well how did this end? Oh, okay. So, and the funniest shit when I think back about this, like it was awful. So this is where your crazy, crazy starts.

So like, I just want to tell Whitney, I know how crazy you feel continuing to get rejected by this employer, knowing you don't understand why you keep fucking applying with this employer. I was basically applying with the Navy SEALs. Okay. So this guy, I meet him snowboarding. He's whatever. Fine. Okay. I was working in New York at the time, but coming back to DC periodically, we like plan this weekend. He's gonna come up. We're gonna spend like three days at this hotel or something. I mean, whatever. Then he calls me like the night before the first date was

planned and is like, I have like a briefing at the White House. I have to go to the thing. I don't care about him. I don't know him. And I am so pissed and so devastated. Because I'm like, no, this is the... I'm supposed... We're reenacting so I can ditch you. Like, this is how this works. I'm so upset about it. Then we reschedule. He comes up. It's not good. We don't like each other. Like it's so good. It's really bad. Okay. And so, very, very bad. But the whole thing, also I didn't understand what was going on. I realized after, only like a year after, I was like, why was he asking me to send pictures? He kept asking me to send pictures. I thought he wanted a picture of me. Okay. This was, I didn't know about sexting. Oh my gosh. He was clearly asking for a naked picture of me.

I sent him back a picture. He was probably like, what? How come she doesn't know what send me a picture means? You sent him your headshot from your law firm. I'm like, why does he probably want to show off because I'm so pretty. All his friends. Anyway, I'm just saying. And then I felt double grosser because I'm like, ew, why did I subject myself to this dude? I don't even like him. And it also didn't end up feeling empowering and end up feeling like, like double.

You're just trying to rewrite your trauma story. Exactly. So one of the reasons is to flip the script this time and take back control. Right? That's what you were trying to do. And then another reason could be like, to justify why it was just a certain set of circumstances that first time. Cause if you change the circumstances and this time I'm successful, it's just proof that it's not me, it was them. And there's a million reasons

that are all subconscious to do this. But I think that Whitney's crisis that you can hear in her voice and in her questions means that she knows. She knows she deserves better than this. She knows she's like, somebody stopped me from doing this again. Like if I had a dime for every time she's like, somebody stopped me from doing this again. Like if I had a dime for every time I was like, why am I doing this? Somebody stopped me.

That's great. That's a good moment. That's when you know that your behavior and your spirit and your mind and your knowing are ahead of your behavior. So you just want to go with the spirit and the mind and the knowing, which knows Whitney that you don't deserve to go back to this well. Like you deserve better than this. And if we want a different ending, we need to start a different beginning. Practically speaking, go apply for the biggest competitor of this employer. Go apply to the biggest competitor. I think that they actually are

changing the laws on non-disclosure or what is it called? Non-competes. Non-competes. So just go. Go fuck it up and then like tell them all the secrets. Or that's good revenge. Or that could be it. That could be it. Or take a minute and watch your aperture widen so much when it's not you versus this dumbass company. Right now, your entire world feels like you versus this dumbass company. With a little bit of time, you might understand that your life and your choices are so astronomically bigger than just this one little stupid ass place. Yeah, that's better. Yeah. The overarching thing here, Whitney, is that we repeat what we do not repair.

So if you keep repeating something, it means there's something that hasn't been repaired. So like go do the sweet work to yourself of having compassion for yourself of how hard this was and why it was so traumatic and work through that so that you can see all the newness before you that has nothing to do with what already happened. Just has to do with your wonderful future. Good job Whitney. You're almost there. Okay, let's hear from Kim. Hi, my name is Kim and I am begging you to do another episode that unpacks more Glennon's

keeping a folder for all of her loved ones of all the ways, tips and tricks and ideas she has for them improving their lives because I do that too and it drives my family crazy. But yet I, when I read something, see something, hear something that I think would help someone else's life be better, I am compelled to share it with them. And I have a really hard time not sharing with them what's in my folder for them.

And because I would actually love it if someone gave me a folder of ideas for myself. So if you guys could talk about that more, that would be so helpful. Thank you. Okay, what I want us to note, I am Kim, Kim you and I are the same. What I want us to note about this question is that Kim and I of course have either metaphorical or real folders full of things that other people could do to make their life better.

Kim adds that she wishes someone could give her a folder of ideas for herself, which means that Kim has no folder of ideas for herself. Okay, so let's just think about that for a second. She's looking through the files. She's like, I got my daughter, I got my son, I got my grandkid, I got my partner, I got, oh, there's no Kim file.

Where's the Kim file? Okay, Kim, I have no better visual for both of us than the visual of stacks and stacks of folders about everyone else's life, wishing someone would give us a folder about our own. Kim, I want us, the two of us, to think about the time and energy it has taken to make all of those folders that no one asked us to make about everyone else in our lives and what the folder of our own lives might look like, the one that doesn't exist right now, if we had spent all of that time building our own folder, okay? Okay? People like Kim and I,

I will repeat briefly when I explained to my daughter what I was learning about co-dependence and how I spend most of my day magically transporting my mind into the imaginary minds of everyone that I love and know and trying to experience life through their thing and reading books as other people and thinking about what everyone else needs to do

all of the time. And I was explaining this to Tish and I said, does that sound true to you? That like, maybe I spend too much of my life thinking about other people. And she said, well, yeah, mom. I mean, I have thought about the fact that someone whose job is supposed to be self-reflection

could have an eating disorder for 40 years. It seems like somebody who maybe is spending so much time thinking about everyone else that they're not thinking about their own problems and their own issues and their own life. I, Kim, Kim, I just want to tell you a few things because Kim this is gonna be a long process. Okay this is not something that we're gonna fix today but I have a couple tidbits. Here's something I learned recently. Did

you know, I heard this in one of the meetings that I go to most mornings now, that unasked for advice is criticism? Kim, I'm gonna say this again. When we offer unrequested advice to the people in our lives. Even Kim, when we do it in our sneaky ways that we think nobody else knows, like, hey, did you read this passage? Hey, I got a book for you. Oh wait, listen to this podcast.

Even when we're just being the love bugs that we are, sending what we think is love to the people in our lives, if it is advice and no one has asked for it, it is criticism. This blew my mind. Okay? Here, Kim, I think this is what I'm learning, because I am in an active era of not doing this anymore.

Okay? Which in the beginning was so hard Kim, and now it's a wonderland of joy and pain, but it feels too good to be true. It is like I was volunteering, I was doing a job that no one asked me to do, and I wasn't getting paid for, but it was a full-time job of just

trying to make sure that everyone else was having all of the ideas that I had and that living everyone else's life all the time. The reason we do that, Kim, is because we are scared of our own folder. Taking our consciousness and putting it with our kid, with our ex-husband, with the internet, whatever we're doing. The internet. Is because we are avoiding our own situation,

which we don't know what the hell it is because no one will give us a fucking folder. Am I right, Kim? So at first, when you stop doing this, Kim, let me tell you why. For the first few months, this was my strategy. I thought, okay, so I am starting to understand that other people don't want all of my ideas.

So that's what I'll do. I'll just keep them. I'll keep doing it. I'll keep living this way, but I'll just keep all my ideas to myself, waiting for the moment when everyone comes to their senses, finally asks me for the folders, and then I will be prepared.

Okay, Kim, I'm so sorry to tell you that this is not gonna work for us, okay? Because the problem is that we're spending all of our time doing that, regardless of whether we're saying it to people or we're keeping it to ourselves, we're still wasting our one wild and precious life, okay? Because we are spending all of our time living someone else's life instead of ours. So we can't do the folders

anymore, Kim. Okay? There are places for people like us. I will mention Al-Anon. It's helping me very much. You know that I've started to paint recently over the last couple years. I have spent a lot of time wondering why do my paintings suck so bad? Okay. I like the act of it, but they just look a big mess and you can like see every paint brush stroke and it's just bich. Recently I googled the situation and learned about this thing called gesso. And gesso is this shit that you buy and you paint it on the canvas.

It's the priming of the canvas. It's just a white situation and then you let it dry and then you start painting. Now, the gesso, its function is that it creates this surface that then everything looks better. It's like you don't see the messy strokes anymore. It is the reason why things look more beautiful. Okay.

These meetings, Kim, is just so to my day. I don't know how. It's just that when I start the day with them, it's like this coat over my extremely busy body personality that somehow magically at the end of the day, I don't see so much messiness. My fingers aren't all over everybody's lives all the time. It's just smoother and more beautiful. Recently, I have no lightning bolt stories for you, Kim. It's just a process of learning to stop. It's changing neural pathways is why it's so hard that every

time I start thinking about this person or that person or that person or that person I try to replace it with a thought about what we call in our own hula hoop. My world is what I can see and feel and touch and that's what I'm responsible for and that's it. But here's a couple stories. Weird shit starts happening, Kim. Well, I went to this first meeting and people were saying, don't fight it, don't fix it, don't force it, don't figure it out.

And I had sent that to Liz and I was like, what the fuck am I supposed to do all day? This is literally my to-do list. This is all I do is force things, fix things, figure out things, that's all I do. It's strange at first to stop doing these things, to let time handle things, to not attack every single thing and try to fix it and mold it to your own will. It starts to feel a little bit like magic because you put yourself out of a job, many jobs, and

then things work out the way they're supposed to, which has a grieving to it too, because you thought you were in charge of all the things. But after the grieving and the stress that comes with letting everybody do what the hell they want, the world starts to sort itself in ways that it was meant to be in the first place without you meddling in it.

That's kind of scary and sad. But then this magical thing happens that all of your time and space opens up. The other day, you know, I thought, I want to learn how to do my hair. I am almost 50 years old and I have no fucking idea how to do my hair. I don't know how to do a braid. I don't know. You don't, you can't learn things like that when your job is to control the entire world. I would like to learn. I don't know how, but I'm going to.

I am gonna become one of those people who knows how to make a bun, who knows what to do with curly hair. I don't know what to do, but I would like to. And I'm going to. Here's something that happened yesterday. I went to the grocery, and I'm going to. Here's something that happened yesterday. I went to the grocery store and I got some grapes. And then I got home and the grapes were gross. They were sour. And I thought, here's the thing about grapes. You can't know.

You can do your best. You can go to the grocery store. You can buy the grapes. And then I thought, I bet there's people who know. I bet that there are people who decide, I like grapes, but I only like some grapes. So I'm gonna figure out what kind of grapes I like. And I am gonna be the kind of person who knows what kind of grapes she likes, who can go to the grocery store who knows what kind of grapes she likes, who can go to the grocery store, buy the kind of grapes she likes.

Identify what is that? The shaft from the whatever? You're like, get behind me, Satan, with your sour grapes. I'm going for these ones, which are the ones that I like. And I know which ones they are. It's not a guess even. No, and I bet they're like in conversation when people bring up grapes. There are people who are like, well, I like these kind of grapes. And they know that about themselves. You know

why Kim? Because they have a fucking file. Okay. They have a file labeled Kim. And Kim is this magical, beautiful being with preferences and ideas and creative situations and things that she loves. And the more she skits out of other people's files, the thicker and the thicker her file becomes until she is a human being who is sitting in a dinner party going, you know what kind of grapes I like? And I can tell you how I made this bun as well. That is what we are going for, Kim. A thick ass file.

50 with fat files. That is the vision of our future. Yes. And the only way we get to build our file one little preference at a time is if we stop making files for other people who don't want it, they don't want it, Kim. We're waiting for this moment that's never gonna come. We're gonna build our own files, Kim.

That's what I've got. You can always just try a grape while you're there. Pfft. Pop it in there. I did wonder about that. Is that something you try the grape? Just try it. Would you wash it? Like how do you? Yeah, I just take the chance. I try a grape if I'm curious. If I'm like, uh, this bunch doesn't look right. I find a different bunch. Cotton Candy, I think, is a brand that I stick to. Too sweet.

I need something in the middle and I'm going to find it. Cool. All right. Let's hear from our pod squatter of the week. Hi, my sisters. My name is Caitlin. I wanted to call today to express some gratitude. First, because I climbed a fucking mountain today. One I've had my eyes on for some time and I finally drummed up the courage and confidence

to do it. And second, and more importantly, I am newly navigating a divorce and I feel I am coming to the situation with dignity, strength, and compassion that I otherwise would not have without you three and this incredible podcast. You've changed my life and the way I live it. Thank you for all of the important lessons and conversations and for being an ever present reminder that I can. Do hard things. Thank you, I love y'all.

Peace and love, baby. So do you think it's a literal mountain or a metaphorical? No, it's a divorce, babe. She's, right? No, I know a divorce, babe. She's right. No, I know what you said. Either she climbs a mountain and she's getting divorced. No. Yeah.

I want to tell you that I selected Caitlin as this pod squatter and not in 7 billion years did I even consider that she would be talking about a literal mountain. Like when people say I climbed a mountain, I think not that they climbed a mountain. I think it's some metaphorical thing. But I think she's saying she climbed a mountain. I think she did climb a mountain. She said it's what I've had my eyes on for some time. I think she's had her eyes on the divorce. I finally drummed up the courage and commonvenants to do it. And then she said, end second, and more importantly. So end second means a different thing than the first thing. Wow, Caitlin.

She's badass. I mean, what a beautiful thing. I really do feel like we should celebrate divorce more. You know how I feel about endings. I feel like endings are as important and beautiful as beginnings. And you know, when two people get divorced, it's never an accident. It's not like, oh shit, we accidentally got divorced, but our marriage was great and fulfilling and spiritually, you know,

helping us both evolve. Like, it's two people who have made a very difficult, very personal, very complicated decision. And that, all right, I hate to bring up Noah Khan again, but I'm completely obsessed. No, you don't. You do not hate to bring up Noah Khan. You revel in bringing up Noah Khan. It's our favorite time. He's such a sweetie pie and so talented and always saying such beautiful

things and he's not a dick, okay? And he was talking about his parents recently who are divorced and obviously it was very hard for him and still is. Not but and he said he's so proud of them for making that decision because he knows how hard it is to do that hard thing even when it's the rightest thing you can do and the bravest thing you can do for your family because you're not pretending and you're not slowly dying, right?

It's like such an affirmation of life and not wanting to slowly die. I feel the same way because I feel like practically speaking, there are tenfold more barriers to entry to divorce than there are barriers to entry to marriage. It is so much easier to stumble into a marriage than it is to stumble into a divorce. Yes, yes. So if we're saying, congratulations on your decision, we know nothing about it, about your decision to get married, but congratulations, why do we say, oh, I'm so sorry,

we know nothing about your decision to get divorced, but I'm so sorry. We should at least just, it is silly, right? Like that we give the assumption of joy to one and the assumption of sorrow to the other. And I get it because presumably you entered into it hoping that it would be joy all the way through. But if you have gone through every one of those

insurmountable obstacles and emotional barriers and thought through every one of those heartbreaking things for you and your children and still decided that divorce is the right path for you, there is not a have you considered, have you thought about situations, it's been considered, it's been thought about, it's been decided.

Are you going to support me in my decision and support me in my future? Or are you gonna act like this is really, really sad all the way through? Because I've already made peace with the sadness and I'm doing it anyway. Yeah. And people get excited about marriages

because it's a new beginning, but so is divorce. Yeah. It's a new beginning too but so is divorce. Yeah. There's a new beginning too. Yeah. Anyway, Caitlin, we think you're amazing. We love you. It sounds like Caitlin has done the work to not put the shame on divorce.

When you don't add that layer of shame and negativity, you can have dignity, you can have strength, and you can have compassion. If we don't put this like red stamp on it, like it's a bad thing, right? It would just make the whole process so much more life-giving to both people, to the children, to everybody.

So, Caitlin, you are a role model for us all. Peace and love, yes. Pod Squad, we love you. Thanks for hanging with us. Make your folder. Make your own fat folder. Report back, something from the folder. Kim and I are gonna work on it more this week.

See you next time, Pod Squad. Bye. Bye. If this podcast means something to you, it would mean so much to us. If you'd be willing to take 30 seconds to do these three things, first, can you please follow or subscribe to We Can Do Hard Things? Following the pod helps you because you'll never miss an episode and it helps us because you'll never miss an episode. To do this, just go to the We Can Do Hard Things show page

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we would be so grateful. We appreciate you very much. We Can Do Hard Things is created and hosted by Glennon Doyle, Abby Wambach, and Amanda Doyle in partnership with Odyssey. Our executive producer is Jenna Wise-Berman, and the show is produced by Lauren Legrasso, Alison Schott, Dina Kleiner, and Bill Schultz.