Well There‘s Your Problem - Episode 178: The Bermuda Triangle

Starting point is 00:00:00 Oh I like this, I like this art, this is very nice, it's quite Eldritch horror, kind of, you know, like the board game. It's cool. I got it from the same place I get a lot of stuff, which is Google Images. Well actually no, I got it from DuckDuckGo Images. Introducing image attribution for the first time in the history of the podcast, we will respect intellectual property in the sense that we'll put a little bar up that says we got this off of searching on DuckDuckGo.

Starting point is 00:00:23 It's educational use, y'all. ALICE I was just saying, you filter by commercial use only, just to, like, fuck with the system. JUSTIN Okay. Wait, everything's going, right? We need to do a sync point. Three, two, one, mark. Okay, close enough. Um, alright, well.

Starting point is 00:00:40 Hello, and welcome to. Okay, close enough. Um, alright, well. Hello, and welcome to Well There's Your Problem. It's a podcast about engineering disasters. With slides. I'm Justin Rosnick, I'm the person who's talking right now. My pronouns are he and him. Okay, go. I'm November Kelly, I'm the person who's talking now.

Starting point is 00:01:01 My pronouns are she and her. Yay Liam? No. Aw. Aw. I'm the person who's talking now, my pronouns are she and her. Yay Liam?" Awww. No. The guy who got real mad at me the last time I was on is gonna be real fuckin' pissed. He said, the first time I was ever hurt by a comment, he said, will poopy pants ever finish a fucking sentence? Well there, I just finished one, you fucking asshole. I love the podcast that gets legitimately like wounded by our comments.

Starting point is 00:01:30 So fuck you, I'm Tom Payne, my pronouns are he, him. And just so you know, there is a power that I know that Nova has, where you can be unpersoned, so you can be talking in the comments, be like, oh I can't wait to make my latest comments on the YouTube page! Nope. They were never made. You were never born. Not only can they remove the comments, they remove all of your comments you've ever made

Starting point is 00:01:53 across this channel, you don't get a notification, they just go. Yes. You can keep talking, but you're talking into a void. Much like the void that we see here. I was about to say, what you see on the screen is a map. With a spooky triangle on it. ALICE Mmm. It's bad map design.

Starting point is 00:02:11 JUSTIN Very spooky. And this spooky triangle shouldn't be like that, because it's basically just like every other piece of ocean out there, you know, extremely dangerous in all the normal ocean ways, but this one has been made spooky by popular culture because people like to say horrible things happened here and like half of them happened over here at Cape Hatteras. Or by the Azores. Yeah. Today we're going to talk about the Bermuda Triangle. about... the Bermuda Triangle. Oooh.

Starting point is 00:02:43 Oooh. Ooh. Do do do do do do do. Is it a copyright strike? Yeah, I mean, we'll see. We'll see. I could just go over and start hitting random keys on the piano until I get it right. The piano that is now where I keep my Star Trek books.

Starting point is 00:02:59 Hell yeah. And, yeah. If we forget a Halloween episode, we'll just re-release this one. I think we can come up with a second spooky thing. Ah yeah, the North Atlantic Rectangle. Assuming things are still going in October, which we'll get to. Yeah. In a segment that we call The Goddamn News. Jarring shift in tone here.

Starting point is 00:03:27 Very large earthquake in Myanmar and Thailand on March the 28th. Looking at like 2,700 people dead, god knows how many injured. Everyone was sending me this video which was, um, a huge skyscraper under construction fell down on video. I think in Bangkok. ALICE But, like, because Myanmar, Burma, is a completely closed country, because of the military dictatorship and the Civil War, very very difficult to even find out what's happening, let alone to get aid in.

Starting point is 00:03:59 I remember the Chinese Red Cross sent in a convoy that then somebody shot at. This is not the worst place for getting shot at if you're in the Red Cross or whatever, that's still Palestine. JUSTIN What are they, the IDF? ALICE I mean, I know that the Burmese dictatorship bought Pegasus spyware from Israel, so, yeah, kind of. I guess so. I'm just wondering, like, okay, you put up a building that tall, surely you're following earthquake codes.

Starting point is 00:04:31 Like, I don't understand how this happens. I assume it's just the same way it happens anywhere else, it's just corruption. Which is, you know, you go, yeah, we're totally following the earthquake codes, not knowing or caring if the earthquake's gonna happen, cause you're making money now, and then building fall down. SEAN And that kind of corruption that leads to a spiritual corruption at the core of the nation, which leads to God's wrath. ALICE Exactly. That's true, yeah.

Starting point is 00:04:56 SEAN My name is not Tom Pangloss, by the way. ALICE Yeah, it was a big earthquake too, it was like 7.7. JUSTIN Seven-seven, yeah. Which, I mean, okay. There have definitely been earthquakes that big where the damage has not been incredibly catastrophic in quite the same way. I just don't expect buildings this big to fall down in earthquakes, which apparently I've been proven wrong.

Starting point is 00:05:24 There's a certain size of building where I expect you to do your due diligence. ALICE There's always a guy willing to undercut you. There's always a landlord, and I fucking hate landlords. I fucking hate landlords, partly because Skyscraper collapsed, partly because mine was trying to kick me out of my home, but like, yeah. Also, I don't think of Myanmar as being a particularly seismically active place, I guess. I mean, I know they have them, but not huge ones like you think of in the Pacific Rim

Starting point is 00:05:57 or whatever, right? JUSTIN Oh, I mean, at least here in the United States, where we have international building code, it's international because it's used in the United States and Canada. Yeah, like the World Series. Yeah, exactly. Even at places where earthquakes are comparatively rare, like the earthquake code is still the governing code. If you're putting up a new building, like here in Philly, you're still preparing for

Starting point is 00:06:23 it to withstand a 7.0, because those do happen every couple hundred years. ALICE Yeah, and I guess now is the couple hundred years. Apparently the skyscraper was still being built, so at least there weren't, y'know, people... JUSTIN Yeah, that is, there were construction workers in there. ALICE Yeah, 70 some-odd missing, 30 some-odd dead.

Starting point is 00:06:43 ALICE Jesus. JUSTIN It does seem to be like a one-off, there wasn't any other collapse of this magnitude to my knowledge. I found myself fascinated by the number of Infinity Pool skyscrapers and the footage of them spilling their contents out to the streets. That was a weird, that's a weird thing I don't think has been very common in earthquakes in the past. That's a real like, I've seen footage kind of moment, right?

Starting point is 00:07:04 Like the 4u page is lit, you're seeing a bunch of infinity pools get dumped out onto the street. I don't think that's what... ALICE I've heard of the infinity pool. SEAN That's maybe what's saving those buildings from falling down, is that the infinity pool is acting as a tuned mass damper, and therefore dampening the shaking of the building. It's an interesting thing to think of.

Starting point is 00:07:26 This is a structural infinity pool. Yeah. So, on the one hand, the infinity pool calls down God's wrath, causing the earthquake, but on the other, the infinity pool attenuates the, like, experience of the earthquake. I guess my other question is like... The infinity pool just gets increasingly more and more disgusting, because you can't drain it to clean it, because then the building would fall down. ALICE Oh god.

Starting point is 00:07:53 This is our building swamp. Just full of beer cans and shit. JUSTIN Overflow. Natural ecosystem. ALICE What's that one lagoon that they built Legos around that is just now filled with trash? It's like that, but like, fifty stories up. My question was, like, even if you're following the codes, right, whatever international codes

Starting point is 00:08:14 there are, if you're still building it, how resilient can you plausibly make it, or is that just... Because I don't know anything about construction. JUSTIN I would figure, okay, so this appeared to be a reinforced concrete structure, so probably like the top two stories were still curing, everything else should have been pretty close to final strength. I mean, after that it's just interior furnishings and like, you know, cladding. And they're putting in the one easy chair that makes the building, you know, proof against

Starting point is 00:08:44 earthquakes. Well, I would- I suppose that the top two floors like, pancake, maybe that's too much weight, the whole thing comes down, but I don't know. I don't wanna steal, I don't wanna preempt Nova's question, but had they entered the rigidification stage of construction. Which I imagine is how they keep it- The kind of Kerbal Space Program thing where once you've kind of constructed the frame you put a bunch of struts on everything so it doesn't wobble too much.

Starting point is 00:09:08 JUSTIN Yeah, it just looks like you duct taped the whole thing together. ALICE I mean, did they, did they, did they work, I mean, we might find that they didn't use any duct tape, that would be pretty concerning. JUSTIN Oh, it's uh, use concrete and rebar, but no duct tape? Come on. ALICE They used the Soviet equivalent, that sticky blue tape that isn't as good?

Starting point is 00:09:28 Well, I mean, if you hadn't installed the HVAC yet, then you definitely wouldn't be using any duct tape, because duct tape is for ducks. Mmm, makes sense. Yeah. What about goose tape? They're for geese, yes. Just stop taping geesey maniac. Taping geese together into a goose king.

Starting point is 00:09:49 Horrible. But, but, but, but, but, but, but, but, but, but, but, but, but, but, but, but, but, but, but, but, but, but, but, but, but, but, but, but, but, but, but, but, but, but, but, but, but, but, but, but, but, but, but, but, but, but, but, but, but, but, but, but, but, but, but, but, but, but, but, but, but, but, but, but, but, but, but, but, but, but, but, but, but, but, but, but, but, but, but, but, but, but, but, but, but, but, but, but, but, but, but, but, but, but, but, but, but, but, but, but, but, but, but, but, but, but, but, but, but, but, but, but, but, but, but, but, but, but, but, but, but, but, but, but, but, but, but, but, but, but,

Starting point is 00:09:59 but, but, but, but, but, but, but, but, but, but, but, but, but, but, but, but, but, but, but, but, but, but, but, but, but, but, but, but, but, but, but, but, but, but, but, but, but, but, but, but, but, but, but, but, but, but, but, but, but, but, but, but, but, but, but, but, goes for par, since Liam's not here we could just say, that goes for par for anarchism. And betraying the revolution. ALICE Now speaking of body horror, this killed, like, overall, what, like, five thousand people, we think? JUSTIN Last estimate I saw was 2,700 dead.

Starting point is 00:10:20 I had no idea how many injured. Again, the estimates out of Myanmar slash Burma, we don't know. ALICE It's just a real bad time when you're already having a civil war, like, there's never a good time to have an earthquake, but I feel like if you're dodging fucking kamikaze drones and shit, and you're like, man, I wish there was something other than a civil war going on right now, and then you get your wish because God saw too many infinity pools. All I can say is, you know, thank God I don't live in a closed country.

Starting point is 00:10:52 In other news... Uh, wait, no, fuck. Hup, sliders. Yeah. Uh, so, hmm. New- Donald John Trump has restored stability to America's business community. Oh, Jesus Christ, in a month's time the Patreon is gonna cost $200, just so we don't starve. Yeah, if we raise the price it's because of this, I'm sorry. Please, please do not cancel your Patreons, even if you are reduced to wearing a barrel

Starting point is 00:11:24 and like scavenging garbage. We also need money, please. D'Ogynyse is welcome to Patreon. It would be because Patreon increased fees. Also yes. Patreon tariffs. Because Jack Konto from Pomplamoose also needs to eat.

Starting point is 00:11:41 Yeah, that's true. So our president has introduced a large number of these uniquely tailored reciprocal tariffs to all of the countries in the world, including those that are only inhabited by United States soldiers and including those which are only inhabited by penguins. ALICE This is very troubling to me, a Marxist, because I thought for a long time, right, that like, capital does stuff, people don't do stuff, there's, you know, there's fucking deep states at work, there's material interests, and then I sat through like two months of Trump wrecking American foreign policy, like decades worth of it, without any foreign policy deep state assassinating him.

Starting point is 00:12:25 And now he's doing the same for the economy, and I don't think the economy deep state's gonna assassinate him either. So maybe you can do whatever you want, you know? And Marx failed to account for orange man bad. LWX These tariffs have been just sort of arbitrarily slapped on based on a very simple mathematical formula, which is like, trade surplus minus trade deficit over trade deficit, or something like that. ALICE Yeah, the deputy press secretary for the administration admitted this while trying to deny it, because he said no, it's not that, it's X minus Y over Z, with some Greek symbols. Yeah, with some, uh, with, uh, you know, there was some kind of elasticity modifier and some

Starting point is 00:13:08 kind of other economic bullshit on the denominator, it was epsilon and a phi, I remember that much. And one of them was set at four and the other one was set at a quarter. Which, of course, multiplies to one. There's, I, the other thing is, if you ask chat GPT how to balance the budget, this is what it will tell you to do. Verbatim. JUSTIN Yes.

Starting point is 00:13:33 And the list of countries is equivalent to list of country top level domains. SEAN Can I ask about these countries? Because what's really, really bothering my OCD is They're not sorted by alphabet like the alphabetical name of the country They're not sorted by the tariff charge to the United States and they're not sorted by the tariff. There's no logical reason to the to the sorting and that to that that is the to me Absolutely fucking insane. No one there was like, alright, can we sort this table?

Starting point is 00:14:09 No one knows how to sort a fucking table in Canva or whatever bullshit they use now. ALICE I wonder if it's like volume of exports by value? Maybe? ALICE I really like the reciprocal tariff's drop shadow. That's cool. That's graphic design to me.

Starting point is 00:14:24 I... Oh yeah. AL's cool, that's graphic design to me. I... I... Oh yeah. So, yeah, like, China's already doing, like, reciprocal tariffs, the EU's gonna do reciprocal tariffs, this is gonna cause a recession immediately, and it's gonna be real bad and anyone who thinks that it isn't is lying to themselves. However... It's ten percent drop already and anyone who thinks that it isn't is lying to themselves. However...

Starting point is 00:14:45 It's ten percent drop already, right? Yeah, yeah. Stonks bad. I mean, it's a real kind of like, listen up liberal, crashes the economy. This is the place where I am, because I started panicking about this a few weeks ago. Thanks for the heads up. Yeah, well, you know, I mean, I subscribe to very few publications I have to pay for, one of which is Railway Age, where I read an article about a letter that the American

Starting point is 00:15:15 Association of State Highway and Transportation Officials sent to the President, saying, you know, hey, we love you, we love government efficiency, we love all this stuff, cause AASHTO is a pretty conservative trade organization overall. And then they were like, hey, could you approve some of these environmental reviews that have to go through so we can get on with these highway projects? And that's when I realized, oh shit, we're just doing government by Control-F. They just said, oh, that's environment, that's woke, we need to shut that down entirely. They're doing it by edit, fine. They don't know how Control-F. They just said, oh, that's environment, that's woke, we need to shut that down entirely. They're doing it by edit, fine. They don't know how Control-F works. Yeah, exactly. So it's like, okay, no kind of approval for any kind of project that requires

Starting point is 00:15:55 federal approval anywhere in the United States is going on, and that's public and private industry. Like, how are you supposed to do anything? Unless you just like decide, OK, I'm going to install my like multimillion dollar, you know, power generation unit or a transformer or, you know, a chemical process unit or a blast furnace or something without getting any kind of the legal approvals you need. Because just because they fired everyone doesn't mean the regulations are off the books. You still have to do compliance. I mean, even if the president says, look, I'm issuing an executive order, it says crime

Starting point is 00:16:34 is legal now. You have to go then to get someone to underwrite your huge investment so that you can get a loan for it. Which means you now have to go to Lloyd's of London and say, listen, I know we can't do any of the legal compliance, maybe this'll change in four years if the administration changes, but right now, get this, guys, crime is legal now. How much to underwrite this shit. ALICE I fucking god.

Starting point is 00:16:58 I genuinely, like... So what you're suggesting here is not just that the podcast costs $200 a month, but also that we have to deliver it by telegraph, because there's no electricity. JUSTIN Yeah, this is where I am, is that, like, okay, it's not so much like these tariffs are going to, y'know, cost the economy billions of dollars and you're gonna lose your retirement savings. Y'know, I'm looking at this and combined with the demise of the regulatory state, these people aren't even gonna be able to keep the power grid running.

Starting point is 00:17:28 These people aren't gonna keep water systems running. You're gonna get cholera! Right? ALICE The preppers were right, but for the dumbest possible reason, and most of them voted for the guy who made it happen. I just... So, okay, right. We gotta keep going, right?

Starting point is 00:17:45 Continuity of government. We gotta have our own kind of Raven Rock situation here. The podcast keeps transmitting through the form of telegraphs. Right? Or like wax cylinders, ham radios, whatever the fuck it is, and then you mail us gold. Like physical gold. Yeah. Speech travellers checks.

Starting point is 00:18:03 And by mail, obviously there's no postal service, so you do like, Ancom, not even Ancom, Ancap, you form a contract with a bunch of mercenaries to escort a convoy full of your gold to us every month, and then you get a wax cylinder back. Hear me out, I'm gonna form some sort of organization, some sort of compact, maybe we can call it a company that we were gonna trade, maybe with Britain, and since it's Britain's east of the United States, we'll call it the East Britain Trade Company. This sounds like a flawless idea. And we're going to have paid, we're, we're going to have Black Rock, not Black Rock,

Starting point is 00:18:46 Black Rock will probably evolve too, but what is Zee Academy? Black Water. Black Water called now. So we're going to have Punisher Skull Guys instead of like Royal Marines. And we're going to have Packets again, which I'm really excited because Packets like, oh, you like internet packets? You think TCPIP is nice? No, we're going back to the original packet.

Starting point is 00:19:06 Top sale schooners, and just real fast weatherly ships that are weatherly and sniffed by board. And any listener of ours who lives by a coast is gonna be out on the widow's walk of their house looking for the packet. Looking for the podcast to come. Waiting for the podcast to come. Might have only a marginally worse release schedule than now. And since tuberculosis will, like, the consumption will return, so we're gonna have a lot of like, you know, very romantic, dark-haired, dark-eyed women on the windows.

Starting point is 00:19:38 You know we're gonna be inclusive, it's gonna be everybody. Just we're all gonna be like hot goths. But we're wasting away. Yeah, without podcasts. Ugh, I declare, if I only had just one more listen to that podcast. The thing is, right... Just news that it was coming or not. The other thing is, for a long time it was actually a really helpful thing to me, because

Starting point is 00:20:03 I live in Britain, which is a shithole country in a different way, slightly. But because of the podcast, and thanks to listeners like you, NPR Voice, I get paid predominantly in dollars. Which used to be great, and now I'm wearing the barrel of despair. So, I'm not sure what to do about that. Can we make Patreon start charging in, like, renminbi? I mean, theoretically, the tariffs should be deflationary, but that is so far not played out. I... I...

Starting point is 00:20:34 Mmm. Okay. Well, I guess we'll have to see what happens, and what my, like, barrel status is. In the meantime... Yeah, you might be wearing a gilded barrel. Yeah. Yeah, in the meantime, all I can ask is please do not cancel your Patreon, no matter how desperate your finances get personally, and please do not die of cholera, or if you do die of cholera,

Starting point is 00:20:55 keep it so, like, auto-renews for as long as possible. ALICE Yeah, exactly. SEAN I'm just on the cholera cot, just waiting. I'm laying in bed, my wife is doing the widow's walk. ALICE Yeah, yeah, yeah. ALICE Walking longingly out the sea. ALICE You're having a horrible collar of death, you're vomiting, you're coughing, you're pissing, you're shitting, and then your phone goes off and you're like, oh, kneeball, that's

Starting point is 00:21:14 your problem. And then you go back to the coughing, and so forth. JUSTIN Well, no, it's coming over on the package ships. ALICE Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, of course. JUSTIN With our privateers who all have scurvy. ALICE I mean, it's weird with Britain specifically, because on the one hand, weirdly the Brexit people were right in the sense that Trump is much madder at the EU than he is at us, and so they get double the tariffs that we

Starting point is 00:21:40 do, but on the other hand, when the EU invents the European equivalent to Patreon, obviously we are not invited, right? And a bunch of rimless glasses guys in grey suits are gonna be laughing at me in my barrel. JUSTIN All those smug airport fucks. ALICE Yeah, like, it's gonna be a bunch of smug airport fucks inventing, voila, votre problème! And then I'm gonna be over here starving to death, like, you motherfuckers. I'm gonna be, we're all gonna be at the airport in barrels as some fuckin' Italian in a goddamn suit.

Starting point is 00:22:14 Just wanders by, perfectly tousled, hair, looks like he just spent eight hours on it, but it looks like he's just mocking us. I really do appreciate appreciate this will fully make Britain into Revachol, and I appreciate that much. It's also, one thing particularly, it's a war on treats, right? And guys like Lutnick and Besson say this openly, that what they want is to get America off of its fix of cheap treats, cheap debt, and all the rest of it. Which is a little bit like saying I need to get away from my, like,

Starting point is 00:22:49 I have rigged a poker deck and being like, I gotta get off this ace fixation of mine. But it also specifically, it's a shoe detox. Because after the last round of tariffs, Nike, Adidas, and a bunch of others, moved all of their production out of China, because China was gonna get tariffed up the ass, to Vietnam and Taiwan. Which as you see here, are rows three and four on the beautiful Canva chart. It's like, you can't move a shoe factory very easily, you can't hire labor for a shoe factory very easily, Americans don't want to sew shoes together, and it's not economical to pay American

Starting point is 00:23:32 wages to do that. SEAN I'm gonna paperclip a bunch of Italian cobblers. They still have cobblers in that nation. JUSTIN There are American sweatshops, but they're still more expensive to run, and the conditions are horrible. ALICE You're gonna have to buy exclusively American footwear, which in practice means, like, three different boot manufacturers. So if you're a big, like, whites, Pacific Northwest logging boot type of guy, this is

Starting point is 00:23:58 gonna be great for you. If you're a Georgia boot stan, then yeah, sure, but like... JUSTIN The Red Wing guy. The buy it for life Reddit guy. Oh, these... The sluggish man in America, before he heard about this, and is now kind of achieving exit velocity and heading somewhat towards fucking Venus. Everyday carry guys right now are just absolutely... just, they're pumped.

Starting point is 00:24:20 They're pumped. The three things that you build in America. My meat and cheese budget is gonna go through the roof. This is gonna seriously affect me. I'm not buying American pasta! Fuck that! Yeah, exactly. One of the dumbest guys in the crowded field, Tim Poole, I saw him tweet yesterday, we should

Starting point is 00:24:41 just ban all imports until we figure out what's going on, and it's like, okay, cool, enjoy finding a place in America where you can grow coffee. That'll be great. Or like, bananas. What did they use during the Civil War, was it carob, or some bullshit like that? Yeah, like chicory or something, yeah. Chicory. Yeah, I love, like, our life is gonna be conditioned in fucking Andersonville.

Starting point is 00:25:02 I'm looking at Trump here, and he doesn't look great as well, he looks like a photo negative of Ronald McDonald. SEAN I was gonna say, he reminds me of Mr. Popo from Dragon Ball Z. We're getting a little Al Jolson here, Donny. ALICE Yeah, he looks like Roger in Season 1 of Mad Man, it's uncomfortable. Like, yeah, no, it's real bad, is the thing.

Starting point is 00:25:26 And I don't know what's gonna happen, because logically, this has already crashed the economy, right, and everybody who knows is like, this is gonna cause a recession. The Trump thing to do would be to back down off this after a month, right, but he's done this whole liberation day thing, he had a chart made, and so now it's like an ego trip as well. Because if he backs down off of it, it's his fault, he can't blame somebody else for it. JUSTIN You know, again, three or four months from now won't matter, because we'll have died of cholera.

Starting point is 00:25:56 ALICE Oh, yeah, the cholera, yeah. SEAN I mean, we're already dying of measles. I mean, that's happening. JUSTIN Mm. That's true. Well, RFK's gonna come out, and a worm is gonna say cholera is good for you. And um, you know. It's gonna use that instead of a Zempik, because we can't import anything from Denmark anymore.

Starting point is 00:26:14 That's a good point, yeah. Not to fixate on myself, but it's just, I don't know everybody else's situation, but it's really shitty timing for me that the economy collapses right as I'm about to get kicked out of my apartment. I really don't like that, because not only do I have to wear the barrel, I also then have to live in the barrel. And while that's convenient in one sense, it also sucks, y'know? ALICE That does suck, that these sort of situations

Starting point is 00:26:42 put people on the spot. Yeah, I mean the worst is, I guess the worst off besides Nike is if you're a guy who runs a small business that exports a lot to the US in, I dunno, Vietnam, right? Or whatever the one beneath Malaysia is, that's getting a 49% tariff. They're fucking McDonald Islands with all the penguins or whatever. Because that's basically just like, God has seen your metaphorical infinity pool, and has shattered it, right? Here's the other thing. We're taxing the islands, oh sorry. Because of the rise of craft beer, and especially barrel-aged beers, barrels are expensive now!

Starting point is 00:27:26 Fuck! What the fuck am I gonna wear?! Listen, it's a shame that the beer supply company I worked for back in the day is out of business now. I think they sold the building to a Zionism store, so... Getting a great deal on a used barrel, like a Herman Miller chair that you just find dumped on the sidewalk after a beer business has gone bankrupt.

Starting point is 00:27:50 SEAN And there's gonna be like, what I like is, the barrel is gonna also show your status, so like, you know, you have a claret barrel, you know, you have a mounzy... You have weird names for wines over there that, like, no, it's Bordeaux. I don't know why, I know why you call it clare, but it's fuckin' Bordeaux, like, it's like that. JUSTIN Yeah. Mmhm.

Starting point is 00:28:09 If I used bourbon barrel that hasn't been used for stout... ALICE Nope, well, it's gonna be too expensive. It's gonna be too expensive. JUSTIN No, this one was used for stout, like, six times over. ALICE You're gonna have to get sherry barrels. You're gonna have to use Hungarian oak, you fucking food bean. JUSTIN I'm gonna have to have cholera inside, like, an oak barrel. SEAN But it's not even gonna be good oak, it's Hungarian

Starting point is 00:28:28 oak. It's the one that no one wants. It's not French, it's not American. LIAM Nah, it's gonna be too expensive due to the tariffs. SEAN Well, Hungarian oak's gonna be cheap, because of Orban, right? So we'll have the oak connection. ALICE Jesus fucking Christ, dude.

Starting point is 00:28:44 I don't... I don't... Something, something needs to happen, otherwise... It really, it really, I, there's something needs to happen in between me and the barrel, you know? Like, cause otherwise it's a straight line. Please, please continue to value comedy podcasts in your budget. JUSTIN PUSHING THE BUTTON THAT RESURRECTS LENNON JUST BURNING MY FINGER OUT TAPPING

Starting point is 00:29:10 THAT FUCKING BUTTON. ALICE I've had that shit taped down since I was a teenager. Please come back. Go into the mausoleum and getting kicked out by the guards, cause I'm trying to shake him and both of his shoulders are coming off. JUSTIN You go in there with a defibrillator. Has anyone tried it? It might work.

Starting point is 00:29:28 No one's tested if there's an upper time limit on those things, probably. If you ever make that joke, you get, of course, this is what you fucking get in response to go, you know, Lennon deserves his rest, it's time for you to... No, I can't! I can't, the conditions are too different! I... the conditions are different, it's hard, I like treats, and also, I was told by a poster once that Lennon lived, Lennon lives, and Lennon will live forever, and I choose to take that 100% literally.

Starting point is 00:29:58 Please stop touching Lennon, I'm about to defibrillate him. Yeah. Clear! I played Battlefield 2 as the medic class at an impressionable age. Yep. Listen, I grew up Catholic, I know what incorruptibility of the saint means. Yeah, that's right. We didn't even touch that on the Catholicism episode, we should've done.

Starting point is 00:30:19 Fuck. Saint Lennon. That's a cool band name, by the way. You can thank me for that. ST LENNON is like a belief that a bunch of South American grandmas have, I think? Like, equally radicalized by liberation theology and chagovirus, so you're like, well I'm pretty certain that Lennon was a saint. You know what, I fuck with that.

Starting point is 00:30:41 Like, Scogum makes the candles. We can make them in America, until we run out of bees. Which will probably happen. ALICE Oh yeah, that's happening too. JUSTIN Yeah, it's also happening too, yeah. SEAN We're all gonna be fucking- we're gonna evolve fingers with bristles at the end.

Starting point is 00:30:55 Because we're gonna pollinate by hand. ALICE From reaching out from our barrels, to... SEAN We're gonna become turtle... you know what, it's gonna be the cancerfication, you know, we're gonna become crap. ALICE You know, yeah, as Donald Trump said, he went out there and he said, liberation day, all hail the new flesh. I mean, it's really funny looking at what stocks have gone up, as well, because it's Philip Morris, Ambev, and Campbell's Soup.

Starting point is 00:31:30 So it may as well get futures in, like, United Bindle. JUSTIN Yeah. You know, and- ALICE Make the Meissemann real. JUSTIN Probably some barrel manufacturers- uh, Coopers, excuse me, yeah. ALICE Mmm, mm-hmm. There's like six of them left. In a Gold Rush, sell picks and shovels, in a Recession, sell barrels.

Starting point is 00:31:50 The people, they told me, they're gonna live in barrels. And I said, it's gonna be tough, but sometimes you have to do it. My portfolio is 50% Coopridge. I don't even want to look at what the... The calendar, 1850? You know what, I'm gonna go to the Pesars, the Pennsylvania State Education and Retirement Fund meeting and say, hey, we should probably get in the barrels right now. Get into Coopers, get into burlap sacks, get into, um, what else? Canes.

Starting point is 00:32:25 Start burying gold in your yard. Canes of beans. Start getting into shoes that are comically coming apart at the sole and the top. Weird depression shit, like saving scraps of fat from meat. Ooh, yeah. Oh, my grandma had tubs of that shit in her freezer. Were you using aluminum foil? You can make a nice stock out of them a halty stew. Yeah, you could um saving saving dirty under like old underwears for

Starting point is 00:32:56 for rags Gonna be this is gonna be a great time if you're a cobbler Yeah, learn a trade. JUSTIN Yeah, shoe shining, maybe? ALICE The Dutch are gonna really do well with this. ALICE Great to be an urchin. JUSTIN Yeah, it's a good time to be an urchin. ALICE Newsy caps, invest in, like, moocross, like, the Irish weaving. JUSTIN You could be a muckracker.

Starting point is 00:33:20 You could be... ALICE Yellow journalism is back. Boys, who can yell extra extra riddle about it. We're getting to find more of those. That's the future. You're realizing the future. I was thinking the original sense of the muckracker, where you're trying to find valuable items that people dropped in the Thames. Oh yeah.

Starting point is 00:33:39 It's all clay pipe stems, what the fuck. It's all old turds, the ones that, when they sent Queen Victoria out in her Thames cruise, they were like, oh, shoot her eyes from the turds. Bashing it away with an owl. What is it, anything good? Nah, just another dockless e-bike. Some of that I was thinking of, speaking of like the Lennon button, there's gonna be a button somewhere in the stock exchange once, like the New York,

Starting point is 00:34:06 what's the name of the fucking stock? Is it New York State Stock Exchange? I don't remember. The American American Stock Exchange, yeah. Thank you, yeah, NYSE. When it drops below a certain number, they're gonna push a button and then in the triangle shirtwaist building,

Starting point is 00:34:17 like they're gonna flip over and there's gonna be women that they're knitting and machines chained to their desk. All, the entire building, all the exits will become sealed. The bathrooms are locked. Yep. Manufacturing's coming back.

Starting point is 00:34:33 I mean... Isn't that building's currently, uh, like... NYU apartment. NYU apartment. Fucking WeWork or something. I like the WeWork in the haunted fuckin' sweatshop. It is the worst week for US stocks since Covid. Well, this is the result of policies developed by people who have never done anything other

Starting point is 00:34:54 than send emails. They don't know what works. Post about woke, post about... This is the reaction vids. I watched Star Trek and there was a black person and I got, now Star Trek's woke, and getting 300,000 likes from people who've never watched Star Trek. I'm shoehorning Star Trek into the thing today. First Contact Day is tomorrow.

Starting point is 00:35:18 So. Oh yeah. I guess we're gonna increase the tariffs and then AI will tell us how to bring back manufacturing. ALICE I mean, first contact day, really funny time for it to happen for real, just like, we're just about to fuck ourselves into barrel apocalypse and intelligent life shows up, it's just like, hey guys, how's it going? JUSTIN This shows up and they see a whole society of people wearing barrels and they're like, the strange customs they have

Starting point is 00:35:45 here. ALICE Yeah, you're like in their Star Trek as like, Monster of the Week barrel planet for the rest of fucking intergalactic history. You're trying to shake it, you're like, it was a one time thing! When you did First Contact, it's not fair, but it doesn't matter, you're barrel people though. SEAN It's the real First Contact, because in the film, he launches on what appears to be a modified Titan II, and the Titan II, using its extremely toxic hypergolic propellant,

Starting point is 00:36:14 would have killed everybody in that little shitty shanty town around, so they might have to live in barrels after that. No one really talks about, y'know, shit like that. ALICE One of my favorite original series episodes, Piece of the Action, Kirk drops down to Gangster Planet, 1930s Gangster Planet, where they're all like, yeah, see? And he has to get them to join the Federation by being, the federation is like Al Capone. So, like, aliens showing up in the Trump administration in like, 2025, that's a very similar vibe I feel to like, you have caught us at a bad time.

Starting point is 00:36:55 You are catching our planet in the nasty comedy gangster era. ALICE That's the same strategy I use to teach my students poetry. It's like me sitting down, I sit backwards on the chair, like, alright, we're gonna learn about poetry, but you know what? The real poetry is of the streets, man. You guys like hip hop? But you know what, Chaucer had bars too.

Starting point is 00:37:16 Alright? And we're gonna work on this real rap, right? I hope I killed some Zoomers. With that. Mm. Mm. You know who else was no cap? For real?

Starting point is 00:37:30 For real? Yeah. Keep it the bean. Fucking James Joyce. Alright kids, we're gonna read some letters James Joyce wrote. Oh no. Oh no. Don't do that.

Starting point is 00:37:41 If you don't know what that's about, don't do that. Don't. Don't. Don't read James Joyce's letters. Um. To Nora, whatever. N-Nora, the particle, whatever her fucking name is. The man wanted to do some things, and have some things done to him, that you don't need to read about.

Starting point is 00:37:59 You don't need that knowledge in your life. They were happy together with that, and that's great for them. Yes, exactly. I don't even know if it is. I don't need to know that. I mean, you're gonna get pink eyes, that's all I'm just gonna say. And that's gonna be lethal now, because we won't have antibiotics! Yeah, exactly. Well, you already have the cholera and be in the barrel.

Starting point is 00:38:20 That's what's gonna happen when the Federation shows up, it's gonna be like, it's a planet full of people wearing barrels, They all have cholera. Imagine that's the first. They don't even have electricity. They clearly had it recently, but they don't now. We're going to set up an observation post here on Planet Soul 3. And they're like, you know, let's look at their cultural documents. Oh, wow.

Starting point is 00:38:37 Just, uh, never mind. Yeah. You'll be like, well, this clearly was a culture worth, you know, exploring like a few weeks ago, but I think we're just going to go in and steal a library and, you know, be done with it. We're going to hear the Prime Directive here. They're clearly not advanced enough, but you know, sometimes we save the ones, like remember that one with the volcanoes? You know what? That was a mistake. We're going to gonna call Morgan on that. This one, Prime Directive. The planet's melting, we're just gonna have to, you know what.

Starting point is 00:39:08 I read those fucking letters. God damn this universal translator. ALICE Begging them to violate the Prime Directive. Please. SEAN The word fart is universal. It's in every fucking species in this fucking galaxy. We all have a word for Fart! JUSTIN LAUGHS. ALICE All right, well, that will be the consequence of, um, Trump, again, restoring stability to America's business community.

Starting point is 00:39:31 That was... ALICE Thank you, President Trump. JUSTIN Thank you, President Donald John Trump. ALICE You're welcome. I hope you enjoy. JUSTIN LAUGHS. ALICE That was the goddamn news. ALICE By following on from that, we got some tour announcements.

Starting point is 00:39:48 JUSTIN Tour announcements, tour announcements. ALICE So, we're doing a tour, we're doing a tour of the Northeastern United States, however, as you may be aware, the United States border, um, worse to cross than ever, to the point that, uh... JUSTIN That's because the business environment is so stable. Yeah, the business environment is so stable that I have had multiple people ask, and some beg me not to try to come to the US, and I was... To quote a lawyer with a podcast on the internet, stop emailing me.

Starting point is 00:40:24 Yeah. podcast on the internet, stop emailing me. ALICE Yeah, yeah, yeah. So I mean, we did seek legal advice on this, and some expert advice from people who were in a position to know, and for a while we were gonna try and tough it out and be like well fuck it, we're gonna go to the embassy, they're gonna misgender me, whatever the fuck. Now we denude to the point that I really don want to get a Salvadoran involuntary haircut, so... JUSTIN It's kinda like, y'know, if you're... Well Riley said this on Trash Feature, but I was thinking it in parallel.

Starting point is 00:40:55 It's like, okay, if you're like 99% certain you're not going to go to Salvadoran prison, you don't go. That's a bad number. ALICE Yeah. So we will figure out some Edward Snowden telepresence shit. And we'll put a little barrel on the robot to represent my attire at the time as well. And I will... SEAN I'll just have to bring the guns over to you.

Starting point is 00:41:20 I'll just have to smuggle my firearms into the UK. ALICE It's always fun to see me go on the watchlist for a change, yeah. ALICE We'll probably have to bleep that. ALICE Yeah, but so, um, yeah, I'm just gonna remote in for the shows, and it fucking sucks, because, like, what a fucking piece of cognitive dissonance apart from anything else, to be like, yeah, I'm gonna get out of bed today, I'm gonna walk into, like, you know, assuming I'm still in this apartment, I'm gonna walk into the office, and I'm gonna call in to Broadway.

Starting point is 00:41:54 Like, I might be the first person to play a Broadway theatre and not have to wear pants. Which is... I don't know. Maybe some kind of an achievement, but it fuckin' sucks or a bad, and I really hope- What about Daniel Radcliffe? Oh, yeah. That's true.

Starting point is 00:42:13 But yeah, so- Why not take your barrel, right, so you go to Canada, being in the Commonwealth Nation, you'll be welcome there, and then you use your barrel to go over Niagara Falls. Oh. And just hope I end up on the US side on the bottom, yeah. Interesting. Border Patrol couldn't do shit to me. Nah, I don't think that's ever been addressed, so it's like a legal gray area.

Starting point is 00:42:36 Hell yeah. Like killing somebody in Yellowstone. It's simple, you just have to go over Niagara Falls in a barrel. Yeah, no, I... Someone... I wish things were different, and I wish things became different in a hurry. Due to this fucking sucks. And I am sorry. JUSTIN Yeah, you know.

Starting point is 00:42:57 I'm hoping that at some point in the future we get a political thaw where, you know, this is not so risky. ALICE For real. I mean, I also want to get you guys out to... JUSTIN We need an American cruise ship. ALICE Yeah. But like... JUSTIN We'll be America's cruise ship.

Starting point is 00:43:16 ALICE I am gonna pitch a European tour just so we can actually be on stage all at one time. JUSTIN That'd be nice, yeah. ALICE Because so far we're an extremely resilient podcast in the sense of the two coke executives who aren't allowed to fly on the same plane. But, y'know, other than that there are some drawbacks. So, we will do the shows as planned, but I'm gonna be a laptop, probably. Or one of those Taylor presents robots.

Starting point is 00:43:45 I'm looking forward to, because of the prices in the UK being what they are, like the tour of, like, WTYP live in Bradford. Live in, I don't know, what's in that shitty town? Blackpool. Just open up Google Maps. We're gonna go to Great Yarmouth. Crew. We're in Stoke. We're gonna go to Great Yarmouth. Crew. We're in Stoke.

Starting point is 00:44:06 We're in Newcastle. Clacton. Oh, we're in... Telford. There's a Telford near me. That's probably... It's colonization, probably. Yeah.

Starting point is 00:44:14 Folks, we're gonna go to Evernest. Wait, wait, wait, hold on. Wait, wait, wait. Colonization? Yeah. Like, there's a reason why all of your place names are all the same as our place names. And so you have a bunch of, like, shole towns named like, new shithole town. Yeah.

Starting point is 00:44:29 That's fucking wild. Well there's your problem, Cycling Tour of North Cornwall. Yo, I thought it was the other way around. Actually I would fuck with that, and the... I'm not gonna say, but there are people with my last name in power in Cornwall, that I'm wondering are related to me. name in power in Cornwall that I'm wondering are related to me. ALICE Like the Shadow Government?

Starting point is 00:44:48 SEAN Like, in some town council in like, far southwest Cornwall. And I'll be like, hey! We have the same last name, it's not very common. So I'm wondering. So right now- oh! Are there any panes in Cornwall?! You know, googling furiously to try and find and get a step ahead of me.

Starting point is 00:45:06 I'm on to you. Anyway, so tickets are still available for our show in beautiful New York City on April 29th. Those have been discounted. Tickets are still available for our show in Philadelphia at the Fillmore, where we do have to fill more seats. Again, we do have to do this in the complicated way, where there may be technical difficulties. I apologize, but you should blame the president, and also all the conservative members of your

Starting point is 00:45:32 family. Go yell at them right now. This is absolutely true, and I want you to make a huge problem about it at Thanksgiving. Yes, that will be your problem. Yes. Yes. If you're also a Ten Thousand Lawsonist listener, we have a mass quite the goon squad on our Discord, so we will be sending escorts.

Starting point is 00:45:51 Not that kind of goon squad, normally. You say Discord goon squad to me, eh? I mean, listen, a couple of these guys, I'll probably make a stay, shoutout Charlie, what's up. Shoutout Wayne. Probably, I mean, maybe, I don't know. But yeah, they could stand there and look tough wearing their, like, SC-something gear. ALICE I just need, like, the Goon Squad will really

Starting point is 00:46:14 come into its own when executive power in the US declines to the point that, like, there's no border patrol, it's like a series of militias, and you just get the Pennsylvania Secret Service to like, muscle me through whatever checkpoint. That's gonna be ideal, aside from the Civil War part. But... Well, we just gotta boost the Patreon so you can fly private across the Atlantic Ocean. Oh my fucking god. Or take some sort of, y'know, packet. Take a packet.

Starting point is 00:46:42 Yeah, do you think that security is like, cooler than airport security? They gotta be. SEAN Take the next packet out of court. I mean, that's still part of the empire, right? You know? ALICE I arrived on a tramp steamer. SEAN Do you have to come in through Ellis Island? ALICE Show up four weeks late.

Starting point is 00:47:06 They changed my name at Ellis Island, not for any ethnic reasons, but because they believed it was dumb as hell, and they were right. SEAN Just hopefully your packet doesn't go through a certain body of water. ALICE Oh god. JUSTIN Oh yeah, which is the subject of today's podcast, which... SEAN 15 minutes in. ALICE 15 minutes in, yeah. We had a lot to talk about, the economy crash, we were all gonna be wearing barrels.

Starting point is 00:47:30 Yeah, we're all gonna have cholera. It's a lot to take in at once. One at a time. We got the guy, the guy whose image attribution, I stole this from the Civilization... Wow, okay. Looking real airbrushed. Drop the skincare routine. What is the Bermuda Triangle? Well, take it away, Tom. Well, it's... There's this island called Bermuda, right? And it's named after this guy named Jose de Bermuda,. Which, um, I never-

Starting point is 00:48:06 Awful hackup. Yeah, real, real smug. He got the bob, which is a weird combination with that beard texture. He looks like the new Willy Wonka, but with a beard. He's got the blush going on, yeah. Maybe he's just encountered a member of the Goon Squad and he's a little intrigued. So Jose de Bermudez is a Spanish name which comes from the old Spanish Bermudo which comes from the Swabian Weremund which comes from the Proto-Germanic, it's a compound of Proto-Germanic words,

Starting point is 00:48:46 Wihaz and Mundo, which means sacred protector. And this comes from Proto-Indo-European. This comes from, oh shit, I forgot to look up, pronounce the laryngeals. We have Waiikos plus the ending Manta, sure. And this is an interesting thing. It kind of translates to hand that sifts those who would be sacrificed. Mason- Damn, significantly cooler name. Oh, kill them all and let God sort them out. Jason- And it's cognate with the Latin. Mason- Let this guy sort them out.

Starting point is 00:49:19 Jason- And it's cognate with the Latin victim. So maybe for some, like God has a sense of irony, or the Proto-Indo-Europeans did. And anyway, so that's where Bermuda comes from. And then triangles, those are shapes. And with- I'm learning so much. Yeah. Yeah, so I, you know, pull this one up for me, Jamie.

Starting point is 00:49:42 My mind's blown into this thing. Triangles, three sides, right? 180 degrees. Wow. Wow. That's, that's wow, man. And that comes, so it comes from Latin, triangulo. That is how you actually would have pronounced it.

Starting point is 00:49:58 That's where, that's, you know, I don't know if Latin nerds know that. I'm not doing any fucking ecclesiastical pronunciation. Fucking Italians, get the fuck out of here. And yeah, it's a name that you have. So it's the Imperion, Roman, Nouron. Fucking Yeltsin Romans, Winnie Weedie Wee-kee. It sounds better, in my opinion.

Starting point is 00:50:20 It kind of makes sense that French came from that bullshit. Oh yeah, they just add extra letters at the end. It just nasalized the fuck out everything. So it comes from Latin, it's a compound. Tres plus angulus. Alright, well what do each of those mean? Three and angle. And that comes from Proto-

Starting point is 00:50:39 That comes from Proto-Indo-European, treyes, and then we don't know exactly how it was pronounced, but like, Hongoloz. I'm not mentally recasting every kind of Roman in my head as sounding a bit French. I'm not doing that. Oh, you have to! No, that's... I'm not gonna fuckin' come up with a Cicero.

Starting point is 00:51:01 You know? Listen, I have seen a lot of films from the 1960s about Romans, and they all sound like Brits. Yeah, they're British, they're English people. And the Patricians sound very posh, and the plebeians sound like real geezers. Yeah, I saw that documentary they made in ancient Rome, called Rome. Yeah. And, um, Ben Hur... What's up, shout out Polly Walker, what are you up to?

Starting point is 00:51:28 Anyway, so both of these, what's really kinda cool is these proto-Indo-European terms, they all come from Turkic. Which is the original language. Okay, sure. So what I'm learning is that Bermuda is the rightful territory of Turquia. Exactly. I guess so. And, y'know, shout out to my grey wolves, let's go to them.

Starting point is 00:51:49 I don't know if we can shout out the grey wolves. I think there's already a podcast that does that. Oh, I was accused of stealing Cumtown Bits, so I guess I'm now stealing Chapo Valor too. Yeah, it's like a combination of, like, we get cancelled for the fascist terrorist organisation and we get cancelled for like, biting Chappo. SEAN By the way, Felix, I'm better at flight simulator than you. I'm much better.

Starting point is 00:52:12 ALICE My Andrew Cuomo impression is stolen. It's an impression of Nick Mullen doing Andrew Cuomo. SEAN To be fair, that's half my point. ALICE I have Felix blocked, and I don't even remember why I did that. I don't remember what I was mad at him about. All right, well, you know, I still listen to their podcast. That's one of the few I still listen to as well. Although, Matt Krishman shouts out.

Starting point is 00:52:36 I hope your brain's doing good. If you don't know the context of that, that's a really funny thing to say. I don't mean, I mean that unironically. LIAM No, no, no. I just mean, if you didn't know why you were saying that, it'd be like, who the fuck is this guy? JUSTIN This is, this is, uh, you know, it's happened to enough people in the podcasting sphere, the left wing podcasting sphere, that I'm like, we all gotta be on the lookout. ALICE I'm concerned, yeah.

Starting point is 00:53:06 SEAN Anyone with one of those sound guns, like at the NFL sidelines, if they're pointing that at you, that's the heart attack gun. ALICE Oh yeah, the fuckin' Havana Syndrome? No question. SEAN That's gonna fuckin' clot your blood from twenty paces. ALICE No joke, when I was recording No Gods No Mares, at nogodsnomares.com, earlier in

Starting point is 00:53:27 the afternoon, I had a little, like, kinda fuckin' neurological event thing, where I got like a weird headache on one side and I felt a little loopy for a second, and I was like, this is it, this is it, they fuckin' got me! They got me with the fuckin' Havana Syndrome gun. JUSTIN Podcast your brain is happening to me. ALICE Which, and like I said, it'd be a very on-brand way to go out, and it would spare me the barrel, which I would appreciate, but, y'know, I am keen to live a long and healthy life.

Starting point is 00:53:55 ALICE Spare the barrel, spoil the podcast. JUSTIN I want to see the barrel times, I just think it'll be... I gotta live longer just to see how it ends. Genuinely, it's like, I came in, you could've walked into the theatre at any point in this movie, but you came in and you got to see the ending? Like, that's kinda cool. JUSTIN Oh yeah, exactly.

Starting point is 00:54:15 TROY So, yeah, but anyway, I mean, I guess we're an hour in, that's where the Bermuda Triangle comes from. ALICE Okay, cool, good podcast, thanks, Tom. TROY That's Safety Third? ALICE Yeah, sure. TROY Uh... Third? Yeah, sure. Yeah, I keep getting mixed up, because I serve the drop of Eric Adams comparing himself to Jesus and getting booed by everyone in New York.

Starting point is 00:54:33 I can do that instead of Shake Hands with Danger. You know, when Jesus was on the cross, he said, God forgive them, but they know not what they do. Oh, he fully says the word in there. Oh. Yeah. I forgot that he said that. Well, we're gonna have to cut that, I guess. Oh, he fully says the word in there. Oh, well, yeah. I forgot that he said that. Well, we're gonna have to cut that, I guess.

Starting point is 00:54:48 Oh, yeah, we clicked the next slide. Oh, look, there's a- alright, so this is the Bermuda Triangle. Oh, so those are the points of the triangle are Miami, Bermuda, San Juan. That's bullshit, first of all, because if you drown off the waterfront in Miami Beach, that means you die in the Bermuda Triangle. Well, technically that one, probably that one train that derailed and killed everyone on the overseas railway was a Bermuda Triangle accident.

Starting point is 00:55:16 Except it wasn't because again, most of the accidents and disasters attributed to the Bermuda Triangle actually happened at Cape Havre. And the issue here with the Bermuda Triangle is it's non-Euclidean. And that's where you get some cthulhu shit. Because that's clearly... Yeah, yeah. Well yeah, because it's spherical geometry, right? The angles are going to add up to more than 180. Which is my favorite thing when he's like at the mountains of madness when he's describing oh the weird non-Euclidean geometry of this alien base in Antarctica. That just means it's got circles you idiot.

Starting point is 00:55:53 It's got fucking globes. Yeah. Euclid didn't know what a circle was. So yeah you have this- Hyperbolic geometry. It could be. It could be radial geometry which is is just the same, but the coordinate system's different.

Starting point is 00:56:06 Yeah. 2 pi r squared, or whatever. I'm not a math guy. This is also known as the Devil's Triangle, which is also known as the Eiffel Tower. But the term is coined, you can click, by this guy named Vincent Gaddis. Whoa! There we go. Hairline like a puzzle piece.

Starting point is 00:56:29 Oh yeah. This is, this is... He's got the same hairline I do. And if I was a coward and wouldn't recognize what nature, what God has designed for my hair, what my answers have given me, I would look like that. But I'm not a coward. So also I don't write dumb shit in art, and in February 1964 issue of Argosy Magazine... ALICE The fuck is Argosy Magazine?

Starting point is 00:56:53 SEAN It actually, it's a magazine that lasted from the 19th century till 2016. ALICE Jesus, it was like the Atlantic or whatever. SEAN Yeah, but for like, pulp shit. ALICE Huh. Okay. SEAN So, it was in its pulp era, kind of like, have you ever heard of the 14 Times, like Charles Ford? Oh yeah yeah yeah, like, we're the cultist shit. Yeah, kind of, so he would-

Starting point is 00:57:14 Para, whatever. Parapsychology, and ancient aliens, and, yeah, so he's kind of in that balawick. I don't know why that was the first word that came to my mind, but he was like, so he coined the term Bermuda Triangle, but he wasn't the first person to come up with it. ALICE But he did it in this magazine. So this is a post, basically. This is an X post, right? It's a conspiracy threat.

Starting point is 00:57:41 JUSTIN They used to pay you for them. ALICE Uh, you used to be able to make a living as a crank in this country. Oh, for sure, and his big thing was, like, the Bermuda Triangle and his other thing was spontaneous human combustion. Whoa! So, real good brain on this guy. You ever find a case of spontaneous human combustion in the Bermuda Triangle? Oh, shit.

Starting point is 00:58:03 That's always been like, y'know, I didn't realize that was fake until fairly recently. ALICE I have an aunt, if she listens to that song, the Incubus song that mentions it, she like starts freaking out, she's like, turn it off. Like, she genuinely is afraid if she thinks about it it's gonna happen to her. ALICE Oh, I mean, I used to get that when I was a kid. Cause I read about it and I was like, oh fuck.

Starting point is 00:58:25 SEAN She's 70 though. ALICE Yeah, well I mean, 70 year olds like children in a lot of ways. JUSTIN Yeah. It's like, well, actually, no, that was probably just someone smoking in bed. SEAN She also one time... ALICE That's what they all were. ALICE You look into this and it's like, some person

Starting point is 00:58:41 who's like, well, time to douse myself in kerosene, as is my habit, and then get into this big easy chair and smoke my evening cigarette, and then fall asleep. My kids are trying to take my cigarettes away, and I told them that I don't... No. No. I'll die without my cigarettes. I think my grandma could have spontaneously human combusted if she'd been a bit less careful, because when she had the cancer, she was on an oxygen tank, and she was also a lifelong

Starting point is 00:59:12 chain smoker, and, like, she did not stop smoking when she had the oxygen tank, it was just like a mask. I'm just like, if those two sort of actions had ever, like, done, order of operations happened in the wrong order, I worry that she would've blown up the house, which she did not do, mercifully. RILEY That's pretty cool. Yeah. Yeah. SEAN That's just a shout out.

Starting point is 00:59:34 ALICE I don't give a shit. RILEY Real daredevil shit, you know? SEAN Shouts out to people like that, shouts out, I might have mentioned this girl before on a previous episode, shouts out to the girl who used to sit on the can of trichloroethylene, next to the oxygen and hydrogen tanks while she was pregnant and smoked cigarettes. ALICE That's excellent. SEAN You can't just, wow.

Starting point is 00:59:51 Wow. Like, what a woman. ALICE I think women can do anything. SEAN Me too. They should go to space, unintentionally. Because that's what would've happened. I actually wonder what was more dangerous to that child, sitting on the can of trichloroethylene, or the cigarettes?

Starting point is 01:00:12 I feel like there's stuff in that that, like, make the cigarettes pretty mild. You know? Like, entire generations survived being brought up with, like, chain-smoking wombs. You know? Up and out! It used to be like, you know, fucking four out of five gynecologists would be like, yeah fuck it, you know, smoke, don't care, it'll probably be good for you baby, I'm making cool.

Starting point is 01:00:38 Four out of five, they have to say Virginia Slims prevents hysterical... what was it called when the womb was supposed to move around? Oh, like hysteria. Literally. Prevents hysteria and nepharish sex. Yeah. Although that's kinda crazy, imagine you're having sex and then she starts getting hysteria and it's like, holy shit, took my dick off, what the fuck?

Starting point is 01:01:00 Where the fuck did it go? I mean, that is a mass delusion of penis theft. It's a thing. By the way, in the course of reading about spontaneous human combustion, one of the skeptical, one of the sceptic things that I read is, you know, pretty easy to disprove in the sense that there's like, eight billion people walking around, and you don't see somebody burst into flames at Starbucks very often.

Starting point is 01:01:26 In fact, ever. And I'm like, no, but it would be fucked up if that did happen, though. That would be pretty funny. Was that rational wiki? Were you on rational wiki? No, I was on the regular, normal, irrational-type wiki, but there's a quote in there from Benjamin Radford, in Suggested Explanations. Let's bring him back.

Starting point is 01:01:43 We're bringing back the skeptics. Rational wiki. I'm right, but I'm really gonna be a fucking annoying prick about it. No, I was on Conservapedia. That's the real encyclopedia. We need a really partisan antidote to both Conservapedia and Rational wiki, because I don't want to be rational and be abject propaganda, I want Wokipedia. I want the, like, y'know, most, um, left-wing take on any possible thing.

Starting point is 01:02:12 ALICE Well I assume because it's a left-wing project there's 45 of them. SEAN And the most complete one would be fucking trots. That's the one that's gonna be the most complete one would be fucking trots. That's the one that's gonna be the most complete. In his 1976 book Fire From Heaven, UK writer Michael Harrison suggests that SHC is connected to poltergeist activity. Fuck.

Starting point is 01:02:32 I didn't consider that. No. That makes sense to the eye. That makes a lot more sense, yeah. I hope the poltergeists don't think that I'm taunting them. Well you are in a, like, any nation that has a building where you describe it as having rising damp is severely haunted. Oh, no question.

Starting point is 01:02:51 Whole country's haunted, I think. Yes. Oh, absolutely. So anyway, this guy invented spontaneous human combustion and the Bermuda Triangle. He's like Tom Hageley for like, you know, conspiracies. I don't know if he invented SHC, but, you know, he was like a proponent of it. I shouldn't have called it SHC, like abbreviating it makes it sound like a real, like a syndrome, you know?

Starting point is 01:03:13 That's probably what they call it on their Facebook pages. Oh, yeah, 100%. Cause you can't just be saying spontaneous human combustion all the time. Nah, it's too many words. Yeah. It's all fucking Latin, too. Roz, you can go to the next slide, I think it's your slide. I mean, I put the image on there.

Starting point is 01:03:30 You put the image in. Yeah, the weather in the Bermuda Triangle, where one of the things is, you know, it's... generally speaking, this is where the hurricanes go. You know, it's pretty bad a lot of the time. Or at least during hurricane season, you know, the weather can change very rapidly. Now, this is also the case with a lot of the rest of the time. Or at least during hurricane season. You know, the weather can change very rapidly. Now this is also the case with a lot of the rest of the ocean. Should not be surprising that there's a lot of incidents with ships and airplanes here, because you know, this is where the storms are. Especially when the forecasting is bad.

Starting point is 01:03:57 My favorite ones are like the ones that, like the one that goes over the UK, does a little loop-de-loop and just like, fuck you Denmark. Just like, stunting on us. It does the little fuckin' loop, like, you got some moves there, doing some acrobatics. Exactly, well yeah, it's gonna go and fuck up a little bit Oslo first and then... Yeah, there's like a bunch of like Danish grandmas like with memories of like the great, oh, the most funny, the funniest named disaster in the world, the Grote Mandrinke or whatever. The great damp.

Starting point is 01:04:34 It drizzled a little more than normal. Yeah, like if you want, like if you think Dutch is funny, try out Low German. That's another really funny sounding one too. It's almost English but just extra funny. Try out Low German. That's another really funny sounding one too. It's almost English but just extra funny. But yeah, look, those are tracks of tropical storms. Yeah, they have really big storms. They come through, they make a loop, they go out to Europe. Usually they dissipate before they make it there. Sometimes they do fun stuff like, you know, they go fuck up the islands pretty frequently, they fuck up Florida. Sometimes they do fun stuff, like, y'know, they go fuck up the islands pretty frequently,

Starting point is 01:05:05 they fuck up Florida, sometimes they come up the east coast and fuck us up, y'know, and maybe they go and hit Montreal for some reason. ALICE Yeah. They go, for some reason they form, like, and just punish Spain. It's always fun. JUSTIN Yes, exactly. They go to Spain. ALICE I feel like, being like, the Bermuda Triangle

Starting point is 01:05:23 as real as, like, the wrong conspiracy guy angle to take. If I wanted to be a conspiracist here, the one I would do is what you were looking at is a history of, like, US weather control experiments. You know? Like, yeah, they all open your third eye. Most of them bend away. Yeah.

Starting point is 01:05:40 Curious, right? How convenient. Interesting. How convenient. Don't... this fucking conspiracy theory. First off, the Earth is flat, so Westerlies and Hadley cells are not real. Yeah. That's right.

Starting point is 01:05:51 It's all emanations from the firmament. Plus, of course, the US is well known enmity to Spain, y'know, dating back to the Freemasons and stuff. The problem with this theory is that what you're saying is, United States has a secret weather machine. And get this, they're using it to benefit us. ALICE Well, that would explain why America's oldest ally, Morocco, has only been hit once.

Starting point is 01:06:16 ALICE Mm. Whereas the perfidious Spaniards, on the other hand, any number of times. JUSTIN Yeah. And the Irish get a two for some fuckin' reason. It's some kind of wasp weather machine. It only hits, like, now it would only hit Northern Ireland. It flies the same corridor over, into like, what's the fuckin' lake? Up in Donegal.

Starting point is 01:06:43 Oh, Loch Nif? SEAN Lockern. Like, that little Lochern corner over Ballyshannon. And uh, where they go... That's like the easiest way to get... That's where the hurr- anyway, it's the hurricane. That's how that works. JUSTIN The United States has a secret weather machine.

Starting point is 01:07:00 And they're using it to punish Ulster Unionists. ALICE & LIAM LAUGH ALICE Oh, President Biden, come back. I'm sorry I said all those things about you. SEAN We were actually using the hurricanes, we were timing our shipments of funds for the widows and orphans, for the good cause there. To speed them along, they were going ahead of it. That they were taking the fast package. ALICE But Biden munching block of Kerrygold butter. Another hurricane.

Starting point is 01:07:29 You know, I do have a Kerrygold butter conspiracy. Oh yeah? Okay. That his drafting quality in the United States, so they're keeping the good shit. There's no way they're sending all of it. Listen, I've been to fucking Ireland several times. I've commented before on the toilets. I know what this fucking country is like.

Starting point is 01:07:47 There's not enough cows to make enough butter for Americans. I've been to Costco. You can buy like four pounds of Kerrygold. There is probably a ton, in each Costco in the United States, there's probably a ton, like 2,000 pounds of fucking Kerrygold. Where is that coming from? There's not that many cows in Ireland.

Starting point is 01:08:04 Probably Wisconsin. Yeah, There's not that many cows in Ireland. Probably Wisconsin. Yeah, there's not enough land. You have cows fucking growing on the cliffs of Moher, like falling over. Dumbass cows. No sense of self preservation. Cow falling off a cliff. I'm sure it happens. I took the cliffs of Mora Path last summer.

Starting point is 01:08:27 We did like, I'm like, oh my god, I will die. And then like two days later, it fell. And they closed it off. So I got in before that shit happened. I was like, dude, this is like dangerous. And there's electric fences on the other side. So if I want to like jump and escape, I'm gonna get zapped. I was always very confused.

Starting point is 01:08:46 I went to Norway a long time ago. We took some of the cruises up and down the fjords on the Herdegrunden Line. Were you pining for the fjords? I was not pining for the fjords because I was there in the fjords. I pined when I got home. And you could see the farmhouse at the top of the cliff, and you could see they had a bunch of cows up there, and there was no roads or anything up there, and you could see they had some cows, and at the bottom of the cliff, there was a boat.

Starting point is 01:09:16 Like a small rowing boat. They clearly belonged to the farmer. And it was not at all clear how you got from the house to the boat, like a thousand feet down. Just like, okay, these people have some magic going on. Some of that fuckin' elf-thor shit. Troll magic, yeah. But yeah, so, weather is bad in the Bermuda Triangle.

Starting point is 01:09:43 The other thing, of course, is, again, I was looking through just cursory research, um, something like half of the Bermuda Triangle incidents actually happened near Cape Hatteras, North Carolina. Where... Treacherous. Very treacherous. Very, very treacherous, yeah. You can go see the lighthouse. Cool lighthouse. Oh, this has been moved. Graveyard of the Atlantic. Um, which is interesting.

Starting point is 01:10:05 They actually took this whole lighthouse, put it on rails, and moved it like a thousand feet inland because the erosion is really bad. I've been to the top of this. I was terrified. I buzzed. They put it on rails again? Oh yeah, well.

Starting point is 01:10:22 I was just. Ross is just up there like, they're gonna put it back on the train, I know. This is gonna be the fuckin' sickest thing ever happened. Dude, doing precision scheduled railroading. You have Rodney Kantorski like, outside like, filming, just incoherent, as the fuckin' lighthouse goes by at 60 miles per hour. It's just fuckin' North Pole Southern colors! Lighthouse goes by at 60 miles per hour North pole southern colors now you're driving around like spongebob driving a rock

Starting point is 01:11:01 Do the loading gauge though man shit that on this thing you can't take this anyone's on that one. Yeah Yeah, so this is some Cape Hatteras, North Carolina. It's out on the Outer Banks. It is a fantastic vacation destination. That was always where my family went. Well, usually we were closer to like Kitty Hawk or somewhere around there. But this is, well, it was between Cape Hatteras. I don't remember exactly where, because it's been a long time since we went. Anyway, so, you know, it seems like a lot of, you know, these Bermuda triangle disasters of which we're going to discuss several, it's like, well, they went through the Bermuda triangle and then they wrecked at Cape Hatteras, which is a known location for people to wreck.

Starting point is 01:11:39 Like if you look at the chart, my favorite thing is it says, like the Shoals, it just says variable. Like, it doesn't give you a depth. Constantly shifting. Just don't go here. Just don't go here, it's a bad idea. Danger area, C note. Yeah, please don't.

Starting point is 01:11:58 Listen, the East Coast of the United States, we talked about it when we did the last one I was on, the fucking Pendleton rescue. These look like placid, you know, shores you go, yeah, you're going down to shore, go crack a few brewskies, you know, watch the rain. Great beaches, fantastic weather most of the year. Listen, you guys, meet me at Wild Wilkress.

Starting point is 01:12:22 I'm the one with the Trump flag, and it'll be really easy to find me there. Whatever the North Carolina Wawa is. It's treacherous and if you like, I'm a history nerd, you know, you can look up nautical charts from, you know, back when the first colonizers were here. And the same spots are dangerous. We haven't changed it. Nature will fight you every chance you get to make it sick. It's very treacherous.

Starting point is 01:12:52 And the reason that Cape Hatteras is treacherous, it's shallow and it has shoals that drift off, it's the point of land and it catches sand like the long-shore drift. When you decide to include a triangle that has the Bahamas in it, go see the El Faro episode, which was the victim of the Triangle. Hey, this is kind of hard to navigate in.

Starting point is 01:13:15 Yeah, so, you know, anyway, maybe we should rename it the Bermuda Quadrilateral. Yeah, the Bermuda shape. Yes. Ooh. Look at the spanker on her. Big sailboat. Ooh. This is Ascilanta.

Starting point is 01:13:31 It looks like it says the missing training shit. Yeah, it does, actually. I love JPEG compression. Oh, these guys fuckin' misspell Atlanta. Fuck the break, dude. This was launched as HMS Juno, it's a 26 gun, 6th rate frigate. Magic, the dream frigate. You can study too much classics, is the thing with the naming schemes for the Royal Navy

Starting point is 01:13:57 Battle. That's the entirety of the 19th century. I guarantee you there's an HMS Meliaga as well. Um. Yeah. Yeah. Still don't know what happened an HMS Melléaga as well. Um. Yeah. Yeah. Still don't know what happened to HMS Pinafore. Um.

Starting point is 01:14:09 Is there an HMS Hypermenace? Listen, look, just open a Patrick O'Brien novel, randomly. Oh, I do. Yeah. I fuck with him so much. I'm on Nutmeg of Constellation now. I'm getting so close. I'm getting so close to the end.

Starting point is 01:14:22 I'm just gonna read him over again. You can do the Hornblower novels, which are themselves kind of the nutmeg of consolation for you having run out of Aubrey Matcher. Yeah, that's true. Hornblower, I find obnoxious. He's like a cat in a cone, but not as cool. This guy's 131 feet long, 40 feet beam, that's the width, if people don't know here. I don't know what the draft is.

Starting point is 01:14:49 It was converted to a training ship in early 1878, which will be a- training will be a theme. ALICE Yeah, she's a bit of a like a- in 1878 she's a bit of a dinosaur. The end of the 19th century, the first time in the navy that you're like, we gotta train these guys. As opposed to just learn on the job if you fall off something and break your leg, then that's your problem. Yeah, exactly.

Starting point is 01:15:14 We shouldn't have a specific rate, just called landsmen, of guys we stole from the shore at violence, and they're really really really mad that they're on this fucking ship and this fucking shit sucks and I have to eat fucking salt beef. Fuck this. Can I have scurvy now? That's why whenever, like listen, talk about reading Patrick O'Brien novels. All of us who read it, we do not imagine ourselves as a form of jack. We imagine ourselves on the quarterdeck.

Starting point is 01:15:43 Of course, yeah. JUSTIN Yeah, I haven't been stolen from the bar at like two o'clock in the morning, next day I'm hungover and they're like, okay, go climb the main mast. ALICE In a couple of months' time I'm doing a LARP, set in the Battle of Britain, kind of like half LARP half reenactment, which is what interested me in it. Not a Patrick O'Brien one, I would've loved it if they had. But my first question was, can I be an officer? And they let me!

Starting point is 01:16:13 The stupid bastards. ALICE Yes. If there is ever, Nova, a Patrick O'Brien larp, you let me know, because I won't even ask my wife, like, can we afford this? I'm gonna, I won't even ask my wife, like, can we afford this? I'm going, I'm buying. ALICE Yeah, you're like, why, why, why, you know, why has all of our money gone into like, frock coat expenses, and it's like, listen, you have to be properly attired to be on the quarterdeck.

Starting point is 01:16:35 SEAN I'm just convinced I'm, listen, listen, it's 1808, the American and British accents didn't diverge so much yet, you really couldn't distinguish an American accent from... ALICE That's true. The vowel shift hadn't happened yet. SEAN Yeah, we... the BBC English, what's the, British pronunciation hadn't really formed, that's not until then. ALICE If anything, like, we sounded American, so

Starting point is 01:16:58 I should be doing an accent. SEAN Yeah. It would be... I would give you guys elocution lessons. ALICE Yeah. Mm-hmm. Yeah, it would be I would give you guys Alecution lessons. Yeah, so HMS, Atlanta set sail from Bermuda on the 31st of January 1880 for Falmouth, England and disappeared without a trace. I mean I would too Whoopsie. Yep, just just disappeared no no to happen to it There was an investigation afterwards and it was complicated owing to a total lack of

Starting point is 01:17:28 witnesses. Well that tends to happen when a boat disappears. Yeah, how to disappear completely and never be found. Sink boats. Be born before satellites. Yeah. You can still do this if you're a submariner. There was an able seaman named John Varling, he testified that in his experience on board

Starting point is 01:17:48 the ship, he was not on board during this voyage, this ship was generally overweight, tended to list a lot, and the timid new sailors were afraid to go aloft and mess with the sails, or they were too incapacitated by seasickness. ALICE I loved the training ship where all of the safety-critical stuff has to be done by the people being trained who are terrified, and there is like, one guy to teach them. Yeah. And I'm imagining that, like, in this photo, like, oh no, we just have every fucking sail out.

Starting point is 01:18:22 Because the guys are too scared. Yeah, it's like, oh, damn. I mean, can we can we get our, you know, OK, all the guys are too terrified to do this. Can we get like the they had 11 experienced seamen in a crew of 300. Oh, my fucking God. This is why you have Royal Marines. I mean, right. I mean, all right, go up there or I'm going to shoot you down here Please we're all gonna die if you don't go up there and fold those fucking sails

Starting point is 01:18:51 So the the gunboat eight the gunboat HMS Avon Reported or is it Avon? I don't know. It's the one where it's it's the multi-level marketing one your mom in the 90s Yeah, or moisturizer. It's the company that makes marketing one, your mom in the 90s, bought our moisturizer. Yeah. It's the company that makes all the gas masks. Right. They reported they saw a bunch of wreckage floating around near the Azores after they arrived in England in the middle of April. So this boat, like many of the boats we're gonna talk about, probably didn't actually

Starting point is 01:19:19 sink in the Bermuda Triangle, it did pass through. This'll be a theme. The Azores, notably, are not within the Bermuda Triangle, it did pass through. This will be a theme. The Azores, notably, are not within the Bermuda Triangle, I believe. No, they're quite a ways away, yeah. And yeah, as again, the Times of London, I guess, mused that it was, maybe it was a bad idea to have 11 experienced seamen total in a crew of 300. That's probably like what they said, like stiff upper lip as the ship was going down.

Starting point is 01:19:49 Yeah, it's like, well damn, we got 10 officers and one guy who's willing to go for all the sails. I mean, usually it would be like, if you look up like how, like the, on the age of sail vessels, like the landsman would like, 10% of the crew at most. ALICE Yeah, I mean, you read the novels, right, and it's like, oh, we stole a bunch of guys and they don't know how to, like, reef or steer or whatever, but like, some of them will become good enough in time.

Starting point is 01:20:20 Right? JUSTIN Yeah. The rest will, y'know, break their legs. ALICE Yeah. Yeah, exactly. And then we getch em on a pier somewhere and then they're someone else's problem. enough in time, right? Yeah. The rest will, y'know, break their legs. Yeah. Yeah, exactly. And then we getch em on a pier somewhere and then there's someone else's problem. You become a broken man on a Halifax Pier, yeah?

Starting point is 01:20:31 That's right. And Aubrey makes some sort of joke, he's like, he doesn't know what to say from a halyard! Y'know, and everyone in the fucking wardrobe just starts thumping the tables and all that. And you hear that as they sail away from you in your mangled legs, and you're just like, I really thought I would be an officer in this one. JUSTIN Yes. RILEY Well, landsmen all, wherever you may be, if you want to rise to the top of the trees, stay close to your desks, and never go to

Starting point is 01:20:57 sea. You all may be rulers of the Queen's Navy. ALICE It's like when I did, well actually my dad did the family genealogy. Nothing notable has ever been done by us, or happened to us. We are the most statistically probable family in history, and it's mostly, it's all peasant. Which is like, of course it is, why would it be anything else? Most people were. It's like, peasant peasant peasant peasant peasant works on the computer podcaster.

Starting point is 01:21:29 Yes. So you've become the most notable member of your family. I hope to God that isn't true, but I guess I will leave some kind of genealogical record behind... Despite the fact, well no, because my family ends with me, I guess. Like, I've got cousins, I guess, but like, I'm probably not gonna have kids, so, and the world's ending for...

Starting point is 01:21:54 JUSTIN And sisters, cousins, aunts. And the continuing, the continuing, Ben-A-Four theme. SEAN My most famous ancestor fucked over the Lenape and helped William Penn's sons screw them over in the walking purges. I mean, I'd rather not. Wow. Yeah. Guy on the walking purges on a Segway.

Starting point is 01:22:13 Well, I mean, basically that's what they were doing, they were running. Yeah, the fastest runners in southeast Pennsylvania. If they were on Segways they would've fallen into a crick and died. Better on the Segway, which is still the funniest fucking thing ever. Oh, this one spooked me. JUSTIN Alright. This is a spooky looking chap. ALICE I genuinely, I put a note in here, I used to have a book of, like, maritime mysteries,

Starting point is 01:22:43 and for some reason this picture used to scare me as a kid, and I would, like, hold, like, I would, like, turn the page, like, not look at it. I don't know, it is a spooky photo, but for some reason that one just hit something in my brain. ALICE It's the ghosts. It's a poltergeist. JUSTIN Tom Crane here, terrified of cranes.

Starting point is 01:23:01 ALICE Yeah. They're unnatural. I only like inclined planes. of cranes. Yeah. They're unnatural. I only like inclined planes. Yeah, you know, whenever I see a cellphone loading bulker, ooh boy. So the USS Cyclops- Creepy name. It is a creepy name.

Starting point is 01:23:21 Don't name your ships after shit like that. Again, you can study too much classics. Yep 542 feet long 65 foot beam 27 foot 8 inch draft two boilers two triple expansion steam engines 19,360 long tons displacement same. Oh Come on don't don't don't put yourself down like that. Yeah. You're not, you're not the, I mean, first off you're not the Cyclops.

Starting point is 01:23:51 You know, I'm gonna name my ship, I'm gonna name it something really, with like, good omens, like HMS, that creepy Caravaggio painting of Vadooza. Ah, yeah yeah yeah. That would be pretty cool. USS Skilla and the USS Charybnis. HMS Holophonous. Yeah. So this is a kind of ship that we don't really use anymore, at least in the Navy, which is

Starting point is 01:24:15 a collier, right? So the ships- Wait, that newspaper, or magazine, isn't it gone? Colliers? Yeah. Colliers, yeah. JUSTIN Coliers, yeah. This brings the coal to various refueling ports for the United States Navy. ALICE Yeah, and what you used to have to have coaling

Starting point is 01:24:34 stations, which is how you got Guantanamo Bay. JUSTIN Yeah, and they can even refuel ships at sea. ALICE Guy throwing a big sack of anthracite at you over the side. I'm just imagining Felix playing ship simulator, in-mission recoloring. And he's gonna start talking about that on Chappo. Yep, you know, I mean, this would be a very useful ship in, let's say, the Russo-Japanese War. Yes. Yes, it wouldso-Japanese War. Yes. Um.

Starting point is 01:25:05 Yes, it would. Yeah. So, anyway. We'll talk about the Battle of Tsushima on an episode at some point. Mostly because I just really want to. This ship puts to sea on the 16th of February 1918 from beautiful Rio de Janeiro, Brazil. Right? Brazil mentioned.

Starting point is 01:25:23 Well, that's your problem, come to Brazil. JUSTIN 306 crew I wrote down here, I think there might have actually been a bunch of passengers as part of that compliment. They're heading for the port of Salvador, Brazil, to take on 10,800 tons of manganese ore. Now, this ship was only rated for 8,000 tons, but the manganese ore is heavier than coal, so they just went in and filled the bunkers up to the top. ALICE SINCLAIR Sensing a theme again of heavy ships.

Starting point is 01:25:56 Why does manganese- I feel like manganese comes up when I'm on this- is manganese bauxite, is that what that is? No manganese is a separate metal. I believe this was this is used for like ammunition in some way. Manganese is in stainless steel, but they didn't have stainless steel yet. And well the the lack of one of the one of the like lesser known reasons why the Third Reich collapsed besides the fact that like they were losers and they suck was they ran out of manganese so their steel became a brittle Right, okay. That makes sense. So I guess it's a

Starting point is 01:26:29 for for increased ductility You know Which is a useful thing to have is that what that does that make it more rigid or less? It makes it less rigid. Oh Yeah, I'm with Nova on this one Oh that sounds bullshit. Yeah, I'm going over on this one. So from beautiful, fabulous Brazil, they set sail on the 22nd of February for fabulous and exotic Baltimore, Maryland.

Starting point is 01:26:53 Yeah, that's your first mistake, yo. Brazil. Brazil. Baltimore. Yeah, we're gonna go down the ocean, try to watch these ships come in, see these Brazil girls come off. ALICE AND CURTIS LAUGH JUSTIN They put in at Barbados for coal and provisions, they set off again at March 4th, and they never arrive.

Starting point is 01:27:14 ALICE Tough verdict on Baltimore as a destination. CURTIS LAUGHS ALICE Anywhere, please, anywhere! JUSTIN Hey, I've heard leaving is difficult as well. CURTIS LAUGHS ALICE Oh, we'll get there. So this ship was expected in, but, you know, just cause it's like, okay, you're not gonna start the search until it was expected in.

Starting point is 01:27:35 So they don't start searching for the ship until March 23rd, right? That's when the first consumptive wife was like, I sense something happened to my husband at sea. Cause I don't- Like on a pier on the inner harbor next to the aquarium, yeah. Yeah. Oh my god, my husband, he ain't- I feel like something bad happened to him. Out in the ocean.

Starting point is 01:27:56 And I'm gonna walk here until either the O's win the World Series, or my husband come home. No, what was I gonna ask? There was actually a real question there before I started doing dumb shit. It'll come back to me. So there's a bunch of commercial vessels on the lookout, right? The Navy is intercepting communications between German U-boats, right? They don't know anything, they haven't reported shooting a big collier, right, they don't know anything, they haven't reported, y'know, shooting a big collier, right.

Starting point is 01:28:29 No one had seen the Cyclops, except there was a purported sighting by a molasses tanker near the mouth of the Chesapeake Bay, which is notably not in the Bermuda Triangle, right? LIAM Right. I think. And the captain of that tanker also said, I didn't actually say that. Really big triangle. Yeah. No, maybe the triangle encompasses the entire ocean. If you expand the triangle out like wide enough, I wonder like what, math nerds, shout out in the comments, what's the biggest the triangle can be?

Starting point is 01:29:05 If you put one point of it at one of the Lagrange points, right, then technically, if you believe this, every naval accident in human history has happened in the Bermuda Triangle. Yeah, so did Columbia. And Challenger. Wait, oh shit, did Challenger happen in the Bermuda Triangle? Yeah. Yeah, sure. Fuck. Edmund Fitzgerald. The whole of World War II. The big lake they call Bermuda Triangle-oony.

Starting point is 01:29:36 Yep. Big Muta. Apologies to any Ojibwe listening, I just butchered your language. You ever have a Goldfish die? Bermuda Triangle. Bermuda Triangle? The plot continues. My third eye is really, I'm like, I'm a cover of a Tool album right now. If you stretch the oxidation out on a timeline, then everybody, every human has spontaneously

Starting point is 01:30:01 combusted after they died. The heat death of the universe happens in the Bermuda Triangle. Jesus fucking Christ. No wreckage from this ship was ever found, not even some Flotsam, right? There were a bunch of rumors that the ship had put into port in Barbados to refuel, to set sail for Germany, and defect. Oh my god, it's the hunt for Red October, but with productions. to refuel, to set sail for Germany, and defect. Right? Because...

Starting point is 01:30:26 Oh my god, it's the hunt for Red October, but with Prussians. The captain was, after all, a damned Dutchman. Right? A Prussian who's Lithuanian. Yeah. Eyewitnesses reported a ship named Cyclops in the Kiel Canal in Germany, which turned out to be just a different ship with the same name. ALICE Just a German Collier kidnapping would be a really good bit for them to do. Immediately after losing World War I, to be like, how

Starting point is 01:30:53 can we get back on the world stage? It's easy, we steal a ship full of manganese. JUSTIN Yes. ALICE Yeah, it's like, the Mirror Universe, the Terran Empire comes back in time to ensure Nazi Germany has enough manganese to secure the Grossdeutschland. It's a pretty good idea for a story, yeah. We could probably do this with some kind of high-tech fashion. Alex Kirsten, reach out.

Starting point is 01:31:18 I'll delete all the bad things I said about Discovery. The Cyclops was declared officially lost with all hands on the 1st of June by the Secretary of the Navy, Franklin Delano Roosevelt. ALICE I gotta do FDR's suicide fleet as a bonus. I'll write that. ALICE We gotta wait a little while, cause Lions led by donkeys just did that. LIAM Did you?

Starting point is 01:31:44 Fuck. I knew there was a reason why I was thinking of it, but I couldn't think why, and I was like, oh yeah. With the wait some time, between... Damn. Yeah, exactly. Just cut that, I embarrassed myself. Nah, nah, start the clock going, with the Navy investigating reports that a man

Starting point is 01:32:10 in a Philadelphia prison reported that a spy had set off a charge in the hold, that it was sunk by a U-boat and just no one told anyone, and of course... No one knows, but remember that fucking jaw John that sang? That never showed up? Yo dude, I know, I saw, there was a guy in another cell, he was telling me to fucking spy on him. Fuck, wow. Jailhouse snitching extending to ships is really good. It was a fuckin' one of those fuckin' U-boats, dude, I told you! And- Yubo- getting perp walked like this is bullshit.

Starting point is 01:32:49 I told you! There was a man, a man claimed he had constructed an enormous underwater cannon several miles off the coast of Cuba, linked to the shore by a tunnel, and he had heard that the captain was defecting, so he fired his underwater cannon at the Cyclops, and sank it. ALICE Let's fucking go. No, this rules. SEAN This is like, fucking, uh, this is like Star Wars shit, like, we're gonna test this fully operational underwater cannon on the- no,

Starting point is 01:33:24 don't fire the Cyclops, it's a peaceful vessel intended only to provide coal to the people of Baltimore. Do you have a target? A military target? We'll name the vessel. Um, yeah. Then, you know, she says the name and then they blow it up anyway. And then somewhere, somewhere in Baltimore, a fucking O's fans, I just felt shuttered, like a fucking like 40 guys cried out and then we're silence dude dude is fucking spooky like there's ghosts or something so anyway none of this proved to be true you know and it was kind of like oh well maybe maybe it's just bad weather and overloading yeah that's been there under what that is my favorite I had not heard that theory which is're just fucking big Bertha like

Starting point is 01:34:07 Under water with with with 1918 metallurgy. Yep. No, it's still there. It's it's a fucking sea dragon, but 50 years too early. That's what it's actually doing all the Bremi and a triangle sink There's a bunch of fucking Prussians underneath there like still with the pickle halberd and like just shooting. Oh my god. Listen, if you know what a World War One, the World War One U-boats, if you do what it was like in them, I mean you would do it, you would go in and order a can of the fuck, anything's better than this. Yeah, shit, there's wet Prussians. Castro, what are you doing about the wet Prussians? They're ruining shipping.

Starting point is 01:34:49 Dude, that's how they stop Bay of Pigs. I guess so, they use the wet Prussians. They're just like really old in the crepit down there, for some reason they're still alive. I mean, I guess it's not unreasonable that some 18 year old from 1918 would still be alive. Yeah, for Bay of P big, that makes sense. So anyway, yeah, it turns out there was bad weather that day

Starting point is 01:35:09 and you notice, supposed last location of Cyclops here, barely close to Cape Hatteras, by the way. Oh, shit. Certainly pretty far from the Bermuda Triangle. That looks like an extra tropical low, kinda like the last one we had in the other episode. Yes. It's almost like that extra tropical low. Kind of like the last one we had the other episode. Yes. It's almost like that happens every day.

Starting point is 01:35:29 Yeah. And they also had, one of their engines was malfunctioning. So you have asymmetric thrust on there. So probably just rolled over in bad weather. And probably somewhere deep where they can't find it, and then the other thing is, it's just like the Gulf Stream, and so if there is a shipwreck it can get moved around fairly quickly if it's still floating. Oh yeah, and then some reports indicated it was difficult even to get out of the harbor

Starting point is 01:35:57 in Salvador, because it was so overloaded. Just this thing limping away and everybody's like, yep, looking good. Looking good. Thumbs up. Me after 50 cent wing night. Yeah. Contemporary reports indicated that ship was loaded to the point where the Plymsoll Line, which are these various lines here, was submerged.

Starting point is 01:36:21 Which is the line that indicates the maximum safe draft, like, once that's underwater, the ship's overloaded, you should not... you can't use it, right? So yeah, just some fuckery happening here. Not a mysterious disappearance, it just turns out, no. People were dumb. And it wasn't in the Triangle. It was not in the Triangle. Like, probably when it sank, yeah.

Starting point is 01:36:44 Yeah. Probably. Okay. I almost tripped on some stuff, in the triangle. JUSTIN It was not in the triangle. ALICE Probably would've taken it, yeah. JUSTIN Yeah. ALICE Probably. JUSTIN Okay. I almost tripped on some stuff leaving the chair. ALICE Well, don't do that. Don't die. JUSTIN Nah, that would not be good. During the Bermuda Triangle episode? Think of all the conspiracies.

Starting point is 01:36:56 ALICE Yeah. I think often about the funniest episode for one of us to die during. This is definitely up there. JUSTIN During the middle of it? You could fall asleep during the anesthesia episode. Oh shit, it happened. You could, um, uh, shit, what else? Just get by for Dolphin during the By for Dolphin episode?

Starting point is 01:37:19 You could get spontaneously human combusted. Oh god, you're a horror movie. During the spontaneous human combustion episode. I hate to get spontaneously human combusted. ALICE Oh god, how horrifying. JUSTIN Oh, during the spontaneous human combustion episode. ALICE I hate to get spontaneously human combusted. Which would suck. JUSTIN Adult onset sudden infant death syndrome. She died for no reason. Much like a horse.

Starting point is 01:37:42 ALICE I mean, you can do it, terrifying as it is, you know? SEAN It's just, I missed a couple beats, dead. ALICE Mm, try not to think about it. Not very successfully. SEAN You could get, um, I dunno, maybe the house, maybe we could talk about an earthquake, and the big one hits the east coast. The rumored big one, the New Madrid fault does.

Starting point is 01:38:03 ALICE Pretty good, yeah. JUSTIN Uh, Carrington Event, House Catches Fire... ALICE We all get killed by our headphones simultaneously. Like touching a metal plate. JUSTIN Yeah, exactly. It's like touching the stove. ALICE So all podcasters killed at once. JUSTIN Oh my god, I can't believe we had every podcaster in the world recording simultaneously.

Starting point is 01:38:26 The Carrington Event 2 waiting for some kind of podcast convention strike. Everyone's gonna have to go back to listening to radio. Most left-wing content out there will be NPR. Jesus. Well they're trying to defund that, so, y'know. They make basically none of their money from the government at this point, that's the other thing. I mean, it's nominally funded by the government, but it's really funded by the Annenberg Foundation.

Starting point is 01:38:52 Huh. And by listeners like you. Yeah, exactly. Yeah, that's the original Patreon, isn't it. Mm. They really need to invent Chinese Patreon, or European Patreon, I'm not picky, so long as it isn't dollar based, because the whole global reserve currency thing. Mm.

Starting point is 01:39:09 What if we had a phone drive and gave people tote bags? Pretty good, that's a pretty good idea, so long as they're paying gold. Like one ingot of gold is get you a tote bag. Well we'd have to get everyone in the same room, right? And we'd all be working the phones. And calling all our patrons. I mean, the first bits are already difficult. And then, well, we would need also to get our friends in there too, because we need

Starting point is 01:39:35 to work all the phones. And then ask them to pledge support, and then send them a Will Eres Your Problem tote bag. Yeah. Just use the kind of language of fundraising, and be like, you know, with your help we can end the problem of me having to pay rent, and I can buy a house. JUSTIN Exactly. We could have some celebrity guests. We could have, um, I haven't watched NPR or PBS before. We get our glass on.

Starting point is 01:40:07 You gotta get the mouth noises in for NPR. I don't know how they don't filter those out. It's very difficult to go on NPR because the one time I was on NPR, it was like, yeah, call in for the interview at 5 o'clock in the morning. Use this terrible app. I was like, yeah sure, I can do that. And I woke up at five o'clock in the morning and I was like, I can't do this.

Starting point is 01:40:30 I got to be on once for... I won't even say for what. You're the only one who hasn't been on fucking NPR. We'll get you on NPR. We got shooters, we'll get you on NPR. Alright, alright, alright. We'll see what Terry goes to do. Let's go. It's in Philadelphia, right? No, but'll get you on NPR. Alright, alright, alright. We'll see what Terry goes through. Let's go. It's in Philadelphia, right?

Starting point is 01:40:46 No, but like, I actually got to go to the studio, but this was all before Coke, so. But they took a 30 minute interview and then condensed me down to 30 seconds. Fuckers. I would have preferred that. I got the live five minute interview and I was just so blurry I couldn't do anything. I was like, why are we doing this? Mr. Ryzeak, you can't say that sucks dick on NPR. Yeah, and it might be a mistake to give a live interview to the woman who impulsively

Starting point is 01:41:18 played a drop of Eric Adams saying the N-word. There's access to that technology, and is irresponsible enough to do that by accident? Yeah. I'm gonna try and get you cancelled by saying, well, she played it so that she could say it. His wish for those using Eric Adams is my, like, amanuensis. If you leave that in, that's gonna be on Tumblr. Someone's gonna say, like, oh I have to do that.

Starting point is 01:41:44 The only thing that's on Tumblr is like, a bunch of people telling me about bad times they had watching movies, and one guy who's mad at me about Ukraine. Which is kind of like every other social network. JUSTIN Yeah, that makes sense. I mean, y'know, I mean, there's no way people will be happy about you, about Ukraine. ALICE You'd think Ukrainians might be, but, you know. I don't know, we're all gonna get held hostage by some Azov guys.

Starting point is 01:42:11 You know, and be kinda like, well, maybe we deserve this in a way. So anyway, yeah. Once again, the ship, you know, sort of of was last reported near Cape Hatteras, notably not in the Bermuda Triangle. But let's go on to one of the most famous ones, which is Flight 19. Oh, this one used to scare the shit out of me! This one was the one that scared me, because I used to read about this and a bunch of unsolved mysteries things, and I was like, hmmm, dawning horror.

Starting point is 01:42:41 Yeah, and then- Nova, did you ever play the Flight Simulator X mission? No, cause I was like, hmmm, dawning horror. Yeah, and then- Nova, did you ever play the Flight Simulator X mission? No, cause I was too scared. Oh, it was cool, it was cool. There's a plane- you can find it on YouTube, but there's a plane, like, your mission is you're flying a Learjet, there's like a company yacht that's like, stuck off Bimini Island, you have to like, send a drop pod, which looks like a, you know. But if you stay in it, you can't- if you don't find the yacht, weird shit starts to happen and your

Starting point is 01:43:07 systems start to turn off, and then you see, as the night sets, you see the cyclops out in the distance, and then you see Flight 19 will circle past you. So, well, dreams are ghosts. ALICE & LIAM Fuck. Fuck. JUSTIN That was spook- whenever that came out, whenever I played it, that was spooky. God, they really didn't... they underutilized all of the flight simulator's capacity for storytelling, I feel like.

Starting point is 01:43:33 Truly. I mean, now it's just AI voices. Flight Simulator 2024, like, wow. I can see by house from here over Percassi. Just pronouncing local names, the ship. It makes you wonder what Microsoft Train Simulator 2 could have been. You know, if they still had creative people in there. Drawing the train into the Bermuda Triangle.

Starting point is 01:43:58 Well, yeah, I mean, if you did the Key West extension it would be a hilarious Microsoft Train Sim simulator route. The part of the Brightline that's in Miami. Every time it goes to pull into Miami, it just disappears. You see the ghost of the old station and all the old trains there, and then there's a ghost of a bunch of Pinkertons just beating your ass. There's a ghost of Jack Ruby making the deal with the Sinai to blow up Gile Oswald to make sure they don't know that they were on it.

Starting point is 01:44:39 I would say Florida East Coast Railroad is one of the most cursed railroads out there, because they're the only ones that successfully broke their union Although they came back just with UTU as opposed to the various railroad craft unions anyway Devin go bleep me saying should should should should we have to have bleep me saying as a slur? It's fine It's I just means one you know exactly You assholes, fuck it, suck. Shady. Alright, alright, that's much more offensive.

Starting point is 01:45:13 Alright, go ahead, sorry, Ron. December 5th, 1945. We have to talk about navigational problem number one. Oh god. This is a routine training flight involving navigating to a reef, using dead reckoning, bombing that reef, and then returning to base in Fort Lauderdale. Right? ALICE Yeah, cause I mean, you used to have to, even

Starting point is 01:45:36 in the Pacific in World War II, you had to do so much fucking navigation, with no landmarks, just over, like, open ocean, and then if you fuck up in any way sharks eat you. It sucks, and your fucking compass, like, there's like, on the lines. It's called gyroscopic drift, so you have to like, every- oh shit, I hope I forget to reset my fucking compass so that, while I'm over the open ocean, you know, it's- I'm gonna talk about flight simulators again, try to find a flying old plane with just radio nav, like delete all the other shit, don't use the GPS. It's genuine, especially if there's any weather or it's at night, it's genuinely terrifying.

Starting point is 01:46:16 You don't know where you are. ALICE Yeah, crabs will eat your bones like Amelia Earhart. JUSTIN Yes. So, Lieutenant Charles Carroll Taylor was the leader. There were five Grumman TBF Avengers, but they were made by GM instead of Grumman, so they were TBM Avengers. Yeah, I should say, Taylor had like two and a half thousand hours of flying experience, whereas all of the other guys, those little ducklings, had

Starting point is 01:46:46 like three hundred total each, and like sixty in the Avenger, which is not a lot. JUSTIN Yeah. And these planes are, they're torpedo bombers, right, they're very good at killing submarines. They're also pretty heavy. SEAN If you've never seen what these naval bombers look like, here we go, they're pictures on the fucking screen, I'm not looking at it. They're big boys, they're chunky. Yes. So, Taylor, whose call sign was, what, Foxtrot Tango 2-8, right? They hadn't even invented that.

Starting point is 01:47:22 They hadn't invented that, yeah. It would be, what was it? ALICE It would be like some fuckin' city names, like fucking, I dunno, like Phoenix Tacoma, or whatever. ALICE Phoenix FRAPS, yeah. ALICE Actively unhelpful phonetic alphabet. LIAM Yeah, Philadelphia... ALICE What'd it be, Foxtrot?

Starting point is 01:47:37 Oh, NATO, FNATO. ALICE The Allied Military Phonetic Alphabet, ba-ba-ba-ba-ba-ba-ba. It would be Fox and, um, oh fuck, I confused myself. Fox Tehr? They didn't change until 1956. JUSTIN Fox Tehr 2-8, Lieutenant Taylor, he was late, and he requested actually not to fly this mission, and it was denied because he didn't give a reason. ALICE Yeah, they don't let you not go to work in the military because you don't want to, which kinda sucks.

Starting point is 01:48:14 JUSTIN Yeah, that kinda sucks, yeah. I'm not sure I'd be good at that job. ALICE They should change that if they wanna recruit anyone, I think. JUSTIN Yeah, exactly. I don't feel like fighting today. I'm gonna stay in bed. I don't wanna do this, I mean.

Starting point is 01:48:27 What is fucking Alfrag's tactic if not trusting a guy to be like, this seems like a bad idea? You know, I mean, having seen geopolitical strategy recently by certain countries, I do believe sometimes doing nothing is a good idea. So this flight sets off around 2 10pm, instead of the scheduled 1 45pm. There's beautiful clear weather, y'know, what can go wrong here other than usual horrific training apps, accidents, um, each of these aircraft is fully fueled, all of them lacked clocks, right? ALICE We neglected this one aspect in the war economy to turn one of GM's factories into a clock factory.

Starting point is 01:49:12 JUSTIN This would seem important for doing dead reckoning, right? Where you figure your position based solely on your speed, heading, and time elapsed. These clocks were apparently very popular with souvenir hunters in the navy. ALICE So they're just like, I'm gonna get myself a desk clock, by like, frying one out of the cockpit of one of these. JUSTIN I'm sending a Bromid Avenger back home, bit by bit. One piece at a time. And it didn't cost me a dime. Well, apparently they were 24 hour clocks, which were hard to get otherwise.

Starting point is 01:49:54 And I was like, alright, that's fine. Confuse the American mind. Everyone's gotta watch, it'll be fine, right? Or do they? So they fly out of Fort Lauderdale and they go to this place, Hens and Chickens Reef. And they start bombing it, right? This was evidently completed successfully around three o'clock in the afternoon. ALICE They've been out for less than an hour. It's a little Sunday drive.

Starting point is 01:50:21 JUSTIN I was about to say, this seems like a pretty easy mission. These guys are about to have a real Gilligan's Island experience. And you're not, you're like, Hens and Chickens Reef. Am I on the right one? Cause there's the Hens and Chickens Reef off the Keys, right? Yes. There's one near Delaware, but apparently there's also one in between Fort Lauderdale and like Grand Bahama.

Starting point is 01:50:49 Okay, because there's also one off of Plantation Key off the Florida Keys. Well, it might be where the confusion came from. Why are we naming this? Who named this? Probably the hens and the chickens. Yeah. Commonly called chicken rocks. Chicken rock.

Starting point is 01:51:09 It's like, you get a chicken out of the freezer. That's a chicken room. It's in the Bahamas. It's like 56 miles east of Florida. This was completed successfully around 3PM. They finished bombing the shoals, the reefs, according to radio transmissions heard at base, right? And so, they keep going west, right?

Starting point is 01:51:30 East, excuse me. And then they made the turn, and immediately got lost. God fucking dammit. The compasses on Lieutenant Taylor's plane both went out. Lieutenant Robert F. Cox was on a following training run. He was, what's the F and the T again? Foxtown. Foxtair 7-4. He picked up radio from Flight 19 around 340ish. He made contact asking if

Starting point is 01:51:58 they could be of assistance, because it was like they were clearly talking about, I think we're lost. And Taylor was, for whatever reason, entirely sure they had somehow flown to the Florida Keys and he was now attempting to find Fort Lauderdale. He was advised to put the sun on his port wing, because you know, the sun sets in the west and it was afternoon, and fly north along the coast, right? And you would, if it's clear weather, you're flying over the Florida Keys, you'd be able to see. You wouldn't be like, oh, where's Fort Lauderdale? You'd just have the whole fucking Florida north of you.

Starting point is 01:52:36 You could see it from the air. It's very close. You could see Florida, yeah. It's very shallow. Listen, I took my Comanche all the way from Doylestown Airport down to Key West, in flight simulator. If I don't have a plane in real life. You're not allowed to fly a plane if you have a diagnosed or treated ADHD.

Starting point is 01:52:57 ALICE Really? That's bullshit. They should allow... JUSTIN Oh yeah, you have to lie about it. You have to lie about it. ALICE Jesus, there's gonna be a major pilot shortage pretty soon. Well there already is. ALICE They're gonna be able to fly the planes, yeah.

Starting point is 01:53:08 SEAN So, but like, obviously I'm not a pilot, it's a flight simulator, but you could see what you would see in real life, and if there's no weather, you can see, even from like, two thousand feet up, you could fucking see Florida, from the Florida Keys. It's not that hard. ALICE It's just, it's like one of a bunch of different kind of command brain problems where you get an E-Day fix, right, you get something stuck in your head and you're like, well, this is my basic assumption, I'm not gonna question

Starting point is 01:53:36 that, so like, my whole fuckin' decision loop thing or whatever is gonna be... SEAN Your OODA loop has a bit disrupted yet. ALICE Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. My O, my first O in my OODA loop is wrong, and so I've just like, well, second O. The second O in my OODA loop is fucking wrong, and so now all of my loops are gonna be fucked. JUSTIN Oh, I hate when all my loops get fucked.

Starting point is 01:53:58 And right now, just, y'know, at the mention of OODA loop, the EDC guys who are still listening just came in their pants. They fucking love of OODA loop the EDC guys who are still listening just came in their pants You know, they love to make a decision. Mm-hmm the Naval Air Station contacted Taylor asked if he could turn on the YG transmitter, right? Which is what we now call IFF or Identification friend or foe that's so, you know if you should shoot at a plane or not, right? So they could triangulate their location. SEAN The US Navy famously good at that with airliners.

Starting point is 01:54:30 JUSTIN Yes. ALICE It's just, it's like, you know the old military joke about how the most dangerous thing in the world is a lieutenant with a compass? The most dangerous thing in the world is not a lieutenant with a compass, it's a lieutenant without a compass. SEAN Or a clock. ALICE The most dangerous thing in the world is not a lieutenant with a compass, it's a lieutenant without a compass. JUSTIN Or a clock. ALICE Yeah. JUSTIN FoxTerror28 replied he did not.

Starting point is 01:54:51 FoxTerror74 decided, alright, I'm gonna fly south and try and meet you and lead you back to land, right? ALICE Oh, to like, get lost with like, two different guys on the phone with you you trying to talk you in and you're getting more lost. Getting more lost. This reminds me of a time when I was working retail, we had someone trying to find the store I was working at and I said, well, I need you to drive west on this road.

Starting point is 01:55:15 They're like, well, what direction is west? It's like, well, I can't, I can't, if you don't know what direction you're facing, I can't help you. Like that's, I don't know where west is. She was like, get off frustrated too. I was like, sorry. This is what GPS is doing to people. Yep. Yeah, for real.

Starting point is 01:55:31 That's why I don't use that shit. Instead I just get lost like an adult. I mean, honestly, yeah, like... Around 426, Foxtar 2-8 reported they had sighted a small island, but no other land in sight. And this was probably Grand Bahama, or the... oh come on, the Abaco Islands, right? Nevertheless, the lieutenant was convinced this is the Florida Keys. We have somehow flown into the Florida Keys, and at this point the Air Sea Rescue Task Force in the Florida Everglades was alerted and they started to try and locate FoxTerror 2-8's YG transmitter, right?

Starting point is 01:56:16 Civilian merchant ships were also told to be on the lookout. More than 20 ground-based facilities were also looking for the planes in the wrong place. Complicating matters was that the radio frequency FoxTerror28 was using experienced heavy interference from Cuban radio stations. ALICE Not even like Communist sabotage, because it's 46, you're getting like, Maya Lansky's Radio Havana. You're getting Cuban bops while you're trying to listen out for this guy. Oh my god, there's too much rumble, I can't understand.

Starting point is 01:56:52 Yeah, he said something about the Florida Keys and then he got cut off by the Maracas. Oh, they play the flute too goddamn good. How do you play guitar like that? that. Alright, so, three straight minutes of Picardia advertisements. And some cigars as well. AirSea Rescue suggested a plane with a good compass should take over navigation, because you know, again, there's... Well, let's get the one with a good compass. Get that one.

Starting point is 01:57:21 That one plane we have. There's four planes here! All these guys have done this training procedure several times before, but let one of them go ahead, come on! Crew resource management, not a thing yet. I mean, think about it, it's worse than being one of the other aviators as being one of the gunners, cause you're just along for the ride, you'll wait, and you're just chilling in the back as it becomes increasingly apparent that the four guys up front have no idea what they're

Starting point is 01:57:49 doing. You've eaten your bag lunch, you're just like, there's nothing for me to do here, like, I can fire... Except watch Florida get smaller and smaller and smaller. This is one of the things that used to make me really anxious. Yeah. JUSTIN Say, guys, I think we could probably turn around and make it.

Starting point is 01:58:09 Shut up. ALICE Why don't we just try heading west? Let's just try it. Like, come on. Like, please. JUSTIN Hold that thought. ALICE The problem is that the guy up front is the guy up front, because the first question he thought to ask is, can I be an officer?

Starting point is 01:58:23 And you didn't think to ask that question. RILEY You said yes, way too fast. Go take backsees. JUSTIN Foxterra 2-8 acknowledged, but the transmission was so garbled no one could figure out if he actually did that. ALICE And it was garbled often enough. JUSTIN Foxterra 7-4 loses contact while flying south to meet the planes which were flying north. So standard procedure at Naval Air Station Fort Lauderdale for lost aircraft was to fly

Starting point is 01:58:54 directly towards the sun until you reach the mainland, and then navigate via landmarks, that's west. Sun sets in the west. I suppose in the morning they'd fly away from the sun. I don't know. ALICE This is this weird terror, to be like, I am over the keys if I fly west, I will be flying to my certain doom in the Gulf of Mexico. Sorry, the Gulf of America, I guess. LIAM The Gulf of America, I guess, yeah.

Starting point is 01:59:21 ALICE It's like, surely easier to get found if you're lost in the Gulf of America, I guess, than in the fucking Atlantic. But if you were gonna be... I looked at where the shore is, the chicken rocks, you would have had to hit Florida, you would have had to fly over Biscayne Bay to get yourself over the Keys. It's like, maybe I missed it. It doesn't make any sense, like, it's a to- like, who is this motherfucker? Was this like some fuckin' Boston Brahmin dumbass?

Starting point is 01:59:48 Like, legacy admit to the Naval Academy? Who had no idea. It's a Naval Reserve! Oh. Oh. They're really dippin' into the bottom of the barrel here. Bought, bought, born 1917 in Nueces County, Texas. LIAM Oh, yeah, that's a problem there.

Starting point is 02:00:09 ALICE Oh, so not only are you, like, you're in the back of one of these, you're in your gun turret, you've eaten your bag lunch, there's a bunch of, like, frenzied radio calls with, like, rumba music, and meanwhile the guy who's getting you all killed is this foghorn leghorn motherfucker. ALICE Oh my god. JUSTIN FoxTerror 2Aid, announced over the radio, since they think they're in the Gulf of America, um, well I say I will fly ahead in 030 for 45 minutes to ensure I'm not in the Gulf of Mexico.

Starting point is 02:00:47 I do declare I did on my most recent overflight observe out of my window the very shape and appearance of the keys attached to the peninsula of Florida. If the Confederacy had won the war, the entire Confederate States Air Force would be like this. That's why Pickett's charge failed, he was too busy doing a speech. Every officer, every fucking lieutenant in Cornet or whatever fucking bullshit they had back then, was giving his own version of the speech, y'know. ALICE I do declare that you are the very sons of Lassander- oh, the damn Yankee.

Starting point is 02:01:33 Just immediately ripped apart. ALICE All of your guys have been getting shot through the brain pan by a guy who used to run a general store in Ohio. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. You must charge like they had done, so... Just a guy on the other side. Yo, fuckin' load him up! Yo. Yo, I put...

Starting point is 02:01:54 I put... Yo, this is like, we're the 69th. Nice. Uh, fuckin' Philadelphia Phillies Battalion. We got the fuckin' Phillies flag on the fucking dude. I put triple shot in that fucking thing. Dude. It's like Miller light triple hop, fucking triple shot. Just imagine that's your last thought is like some fucking like fucking proto hoagie mouth dipshit. You know, I fucking, dude, I'm going to stab him in the dick. I'm gonna stab him in the dick! EWWW!

Starting point is 02:02:24 Alright, fuck a World War II reenactment, we gotta start crafting the first Pennsylvania Secret Service regiment of infantry. Oh, hell yes. So, Foxterr 7-8, you know, Lieutenant Cox, he's in the previous training flight, or no, he's now called Lieutenant Cox because he's on the ground, right? He strongly suspects that this training flight is lost just around Bahama Bank. And Air Sea Rescue concurred. They're like, yeah, they're probably lost there.

Starting point is 02:03:02 Go ahead, send out the plane to go get them, right? We're gonna dispatch the ready plane at a heading of 075 to intercept them, right? We're gonna establish a radio relay, and we're gonna get them back before anything stupid happens, right? These radio transmissions from Flight 19, they're starting to get fainter. They're starting to have problems. They try and get Fox, what is it again? Fox tear.

Starting point is 02:03:33 Fox tear to a to switch to a different frequency that doesn't have Cuban radio on it. He's like, no, I'll lose contact with my other planes. So he doesn't do that, so they're stuck with the maracas the whole time. ALICE At least you have a nice soundtrack as you die. JUSTIN This is true, yeah. The transmissions from Flight 19, again, they're getting fainter, but they do hear at least two of the student pilots saying something like, damn it, head west, we'll get home if

Starting point is 02:04:04 we head west. ALICE Oh, you motherfuckers. I don't know how to express this to you. You control the buttons you press, right? Like that guy might be mad at you, he's in another plane. You can just fly away from him. JUSTIN Yes. He's gonna...

Starting point is 02:04:22 Alright, he can die, he can go off, he's thinking about Faulkner. He can die. He can go off. He's he's thinking about Faulkner He's doing the Faulkner thing right he's trying to he's thinking about Pickett's Charge He's daydreaming about this and yeah, just fucking turn west dude. Yeah They knew where they were Go the other way. It's so obvious and this is what frustrated me I like I know like like obviously we're like self-selected nerds here, but like, I have a geography brain. You think you need a geography brain to be a pilot.

Starting point is 02:04:49 Like, I can just tell from a map in my mind where these things are. Like, it may, I do declare I'm over the key. No, you're not over the key. You were bombing in the Bahamas. Yeah, exactly. Ask the gunner, he can see land. Yeah, he's got the reciprocal view behind you. Yeah, exactly. Ask the gunner, he can see land. Yeah, he's got the reciprocal view behind you.

Starting point is 02:05:08 Yeah. It's now about five o'clock in the evening, right? Yeah, so it's almost night probably because it's like in December. Jesus fucking Christ. Just before the plane was about to be sent out to intercept them, the air station got a fix on the flight, right? And it was far, far off course.

Starting point is 02:05:26 But there was good news. Foxtair 2-8 had come to his senses, they'd fly due west until they hit the beach, or ran out of gas. So they didn't send out the plane. Anyway, so an hour later he changed his mind. Motherfuck! Ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh uhhhhh. 29 north 79 west, is that what it said?

Starting point is 02:05:47 That's fuckin' off of Daytona Beach. This guy, he graduated from Naval Air Station Corpus Christi, Texas, so this is an all Texas failure. Born in Texas, raised in Texas, trained in Texas. We teach our officers real instinctual navigation. We don't have need for numbers. This is what it's gonna be like when they purge woke out of the military. It's gonna be like this again.

Starting point is 02:06:15 Flight 19, yeah, they'd been triangulated to a position within 100 miles of 29 degrees north, 79 degrees west. No one had actually thought to tell Foxtair 2-8 that, though. They had not told him that. Or to tell his students that, in case the lieutenant was too stubborn or stupid. So by 6-20, the transmissions were getting more and more garbled. Foxtair 2-8 tells his men, all planes close up tight. We'll have to ditch unless landfall, when the first

Starting point is 02:06:45 plane drops to ten gallons, we all go down together." ALICE Oh my god, this fucking Decembrists ass piece of shit. Like, romantic notions having... Oh, Jesus Christ. JUSTIN No, this is your own stupid asshole, come on. ALICE If I'm the gunner, I'm willing the gun to traverse 180 degrees. JUSTIN I was the gunner, I'm willing the gun to traverse 180 degrees.

Starting point is 02:07:05 JUSTIN I was about to say, yeah. And they're ditching in what is becoming increasingly stormy weather, right? So command back on land says, alright, it's time to dispatch the search and rescue planes, because they overhear this transmission. So there's a PBY Catalina, dispatch at six o'clock, they didn't find them, they had a bunch of transmitter trouble. ALICE I love those Catalinas, beautiful planes. JUSTIN And then at the Naval Air Station in Banana River, there were two PBM-5 Mariners,

Starting point is 02:07:41 that's this guy up here, who were not affectionately nicknamed the Flying Gas Tanks. ALICE & LIAM LAUGH Is that good? ALICE Are we about to see some spontaneous human combustion? LIAM They were diverted from a night time navigational training mission, and instead sent on a search and rescue mission for the presumably downed planes. Shortly after takeoff, one of them explodes and crashes into the ocean. So yes.

Starting point is 02:08:08 Fuck! A sudden onset, at all, onset, spontaneous human combustion. Yes. Oh, maybe we should do something about the pilots smoking during flight. This is, in a lot of recountings, this is mystified as, they never saw or heard from that plane again, but there was a passing ship that saw it happen in front of them, and in fact went to go to the huge oil slick and look for survivors. ALICE I just imagine, like, this thing explodes

Starting point is 02:08:38 and just, like, into bits, like, oh my god, they disappeared! Like, just... Where did they go?! ALICE It was replaced by this huge explosion that I don't know what it is. JUSTIN Goddamn it, it's the underwater gun! ALICE It went into a time warp! ALICE Jesus Christ, I've just had an extremely

Starting point is 02:08:59 chapel-roan moment, because I went to look up the PBM Mariner, and the one, two, three, four, fifth picture on that page is a PBM being hoisted aboard the seaplane to the USS Curtis, but the plane has a name, and the name painted under the ball turret in front is HOT TO GO. So, marketing campaign getting everywhere. JUSTIN I thought it said hot dog, which would be like, that's my plan. I'm going with like, fucking hamburger. ALICE No, it says hot to go, it's just misspelled. It's H-O-T-O-G-O.

Starting point is 02:09:31 JUSTIN Hot toga, this apartment. That was what the Greeks were really into for, like... ALICE Yeah, the fucking, like, um... JUSTIN Instead of yoga pants, they were wearing togas. Doing yoga with your foreskin tied in a ribbon so your glands wouldn't get exposed, because that's gauche. Chap-chapelrone, if you're listening, come on a podcast. Hell yeah.

Starting point is 02:09:53 Hell yeah. I mean, fucking she might be. We do have people everywhere. That's the truth. Yeah, we got shooters. Anyway, so a lot of times in a lot of the literature, this is mystified as, yeah, they never saw the plane again. Uh, no, uh, I already said this, didn't I?

Starting point is 02:10:10 Okay. But yeah, these planes were known to suddenly explode for no reason. This was a known problem with them. Yeah, that happens sometimes. Yeah. That's, that's just American engineering for you. Thank God Trump's bringing it back. Um.

Starting point is 02:10:26 I mean, Tesla's... Yeah. That's true. That's true. Um. The search for survivors continued for five days, came up with numerous other wrecks of similar planes, but not anything from Flight 19. I mean, they-

Starting point is 02:10:41 This fuck is really crashing into the ocean. It's the entirety of the fucking Corpus Christi Naval Academy detachment. The graduating class, just... Corpus Christi Naval Community College. You're a rank lower than the merchant marines. America's 76th line of defense? JUSTIN LAUGHS ALICE & LUCAS Between naval air station corpus christi and the league of women voters?

Starting point is 02:11:12 SEAN Yeah, I think the coast guard women's auxiliary is still there, yeah. And the waves, they're there, they're a lot ahead. JUSTIN The final report initially blamed Taylor, because he's now named Taylor, because he's not in the air anymore, he's underwater. He's meeting the Prussians. Yeah. Upon protest by his mother, this report was amended to cause unknown, since Taylor's compass

Starting point is 02:11:40 was out, and there was no physical evidence to be found. That's really cool how one woman being like, don't call my son a useless piece of shit, is enough to like, spark decades of conspiracy theories. Yeah. I gotta tell you, if I had a kid, if I had a son who did this, I'd be like, nah, he was a fucking idiot. I completely... I fucked up.

Starting point is 02:12:01 All this time, I put into this fucking idiot, teach them directions. Do you know how many I put it in this fucking idiot teach him directions Do you have any maps he has in this fucking room? Then crack well, this is 19 like so he's like a like it, you know, when was he fucking bored like 1917? Yeah, he was always on that. He was always on that fucking radio listening to you know The Proctor and Gamble soap hour, you know, never look at it as a bang. Yeah The Proctor and Gable soap hour. Never look at it as maps. Be sure to drink your ovaltine? Anyway, that's what his compass said.

Starting point is 02:12:35 14 men? And this guy got the most lost anyone has ever gotten. And that's, like, there's also, like, wasn't it like the tech TV guy who got lost? Or am I thinking of a different guy? There was a game, there was like a game, the guy got lost in Oregon following his GPS. He drove over a forest, like a forest service road in the middle of winter, because his GPS told him. I'm laughing, it is actually a tragedy. People gotta learn to navigate.

Starting point is 02:13:06 You should know what direction you're facing. If you step outside and you look where the sun is, you know what time of day you should be able to go, oh, I know the general direction. Yes, especially if you're going somewhere remote. Or you're in an aeroplane. Fourteen men on Flight 19 were lost, as well as all thirteen crew of the Martin PBM that decided to explode that day. Jesus. Poor bet.

Starting point is 02:13:34 Don't, don't smoke in the red barrel room of the flying boat. Yeah, exactly. To this day, people have tried searching for Flight 19, and they've come up with dozens of other wrecked aircraft, but not the five in this incident. ALICE Making it the US Navy's most effective operational use of camouflage. JUSTIN Yeah, I mean, stealth aircraft, they were on that shit early. SEAN I mean, it's gotta be somewhere.

Starting point is 02:13:59 I mean, the fucking coastal plane goes pretty far out. So it's gotta be something. I keep sending grummin' TBF Avengers into the ocean and they keep disappearing. Well, it sounds like you're just feeding the ocean TBF Avengers. That's actually why sea levels rise. Yeah. I'm still sending them out to this day. You think they would have learned their lesson by now.

Starting point is 02:14:29 No. Fucking Corpus Christi pilots. God damn it. How many are there? It's amazing Texas has positive growth rate. So now we have to talk a bit about the two incidents that really resulted in the formation of the myth of the Bermuda Triangle, right? Which were two planes-

Starting point is 02:14:50 ALICE I see the bad flag on the tailplane. Oh yeah. ALICE This is our fault. LIAM You get the urge to do a weird salute. ALICE Getting the urge to eat an entire stick of Kerrygold. JUSTIN We gotta talk about British South American Airways.

Starting point is 02:15:07 There's a bunch of pilots from World War Two. They decide, fuck it, let's start an airline. ALICE BSAA's in-house specialty was weird disappearances. There's another couple specifically that I want to talk about in future episodes, because they are spooky. This is spooky too. JUSTIN The planes all had rising damp for some reason. ALICE Yeah.

Starting point is 02:15:30 The planes all had rising damp, the pilots all had massive PTSD. JUSTIN You know, there's this whole bunch of ex-military transports around you can get for a discount, you know, starting the airline right now is cheap, easy, and fun. ALICE You can just buy a Dakota for like, nothing? Yeah. In this case we're talking about BSAA Star Tiger, right? Which is an Avro Tudor 4. This is not the same aircraft, but it is a similar aircraft, right?

Starting point is 02:15:58 This is based on a Lancaster Heavy Bomber, right? Or is it Lancaster? Because it's British. Lancaster, yeah. L-L-L-Lanc- okay. The Lanc- the Lancaster Heavy Bomber. Right? Or is it Lancaster? Cause it's British. Lancaster, yeah. L-L-L-Okay. The Lanc- The Lancaster Heavy Bomber. The Lancaster Heavy Bomber. Or just drop it whoopie pies.

Starting point is 02:16:12 Yeah, there's a bunch of horses in there on Dreadmill's power. A puppy farm inside. Yeah, we're taking the Pennsylvania Dutch regiment, or wing out, from Spring and Hole shit. The Pennsylvania... We found a companion to the Pennsylvania Secret Service, the Pennsylvania Dutch Air Force. There's just like a buggy with wings badge on the emblem. Fuck, I gotta, okay, well I gotta make that now and there will be a t-shirt link in the description.

Starting point is 02:16:44 Yes, please. It's a stealth unit, it's got no lights, but it does have the orange reflector on the back. They were providing close air support to Battle of Gettysburg. They could put an airfield up in a day. ALICE Yeah. They were doing wild weasel, cause they were trying to avoid the underwater prushing gun. ALICE I hate having to go to the Pennsylvania Dutch Air Force's control tower raising. ALICE Yeah, there's no electronics inside. ALICE We've just invented cargo colts again from

Starting point is 02:17:23 First Principles. JUSTIN Yes. Well, no, they're- but they actually have aircraft as a thing. ALICE Yeah, yeah. JUSTIN You know, there's like, uh, there's people churning aircraft fuel. You know, there's... ALICE Everybody has a cargo colt, but theirs works. JUSTIN Yeah, exactly. ALICE They're real hardworking guys, I mean, they're

Starting point is 02:17:43 kind of annoying, but you know, they do... You know, you don't have to deal with any union problems when you hire these guys, you know what I mean? Just gotta do the work. Build a hell of a fake fireplace. Every single plane's got a fake fireplace inside. Oh, hell yeah. Nova, I don't know if you're familiar with this.

Starting point is 02:18:01 Oh, not at all. So they used to sell on infomercials Amish-made fake fireplaces. Like electronic fireplaces. Uh huh. Amish-made. I... but how? Do you have like a Chavosgoy for like... I think they made the wood frame of of it and then I guess the electronics were Someone else took care of that. They are they are allowed in for certain reasons dealing with the English to use technology

Starting point is 02:18:36 Yes Uh-huh gotcha. Yeah. Oh, here we go. Here. I'm gonna put it. It's good. It's this is the website. It's called Dutch crafters Here you go. For only $2000! For the listeners outside of Pennsylvania, the English is how the Amish refer to everyone who's not Amish. And they're not Dutch, they're German. They're fuckin' weird. This is also true.

Starting point is 02:19:00 They are Anabaptists, in fact. Fantastic. So, download weirdly high resolution USAF wings dot jpeg. JUSTIN The Avro Tudor 4 was based on a Lancaster heavy bomber, it was Britain's first pressurized airliner, and, so said BSAA chief pilot and operations manager Gordon Starr, the Tudor was built like a battleship. It was noisy. I had no confidence in its engines and its systems were hopeless. The Americans were 50 years ahead of us in systems engineering. All the hydraulics, the air conditioning equipment, and the

Starting point is 02:19:42 recircling fans were crammed together under the floor without any thought. ALICE & LIAM Land of hope and glory. JUSTIN There were fuel burning heaters that would never work. We had the floorboards up in flight again and again. ALICE & LIAM Like an apartment with rising damp. Yes.

Starting point is 02:20:05 Hearts of Oak are arched clean. And did those feet in ancient times. Going back to the William Blake archive, he has one of these in his fuckin' fever dreams. 25 passengers, 6 crew board Star Tiger on the 28th of January 1948 in Lisbon. Then they were kicked off while they worked on the port inner engine. Probably running a rat line throughout. Then two hours later they were let back on again and the plane departed for refueling at Santa Maria in the Azores.

Starting point is 02:20:42 Part of the Bermuda Triangle we've established. Apparently, yeah. D'Irv, first time looking at this point of the Bermuda Triangle, we've all been on the other side so far. The weather was absolute garbage so they waited until the next day to depart for the main leg to Bermuda, a distance of 2300 miles, which was just at the outer edge of the airplane's range. Oh, 30% in reserve is a rule for a reason

Starting point is 02:21:07 Listen, I I didn't survive like terror bombing Germany For you to ask me to have 30% reserve I didn't need 30% reserve. It's a good mission when the firebomb doesn't get killed. The weather improved, but the headwinds were still very strong. Hold on, right. Did I miss a paragraph? No.

Starting point is 02:21:34 You're good. Okay, yeah, they waited until the next day. The weather improved, but the headwinds were very strong. Captain Brian McMillan decided to fly low at 2 2000 feet, to avoid the worst of the wind. Lyle- Flying low famously good for your fuel efficiency. Justin- Yeah. ALICE- Yeah, no, it's great. And people love it, they can see stuff out the windows.

Starting point is 02:21:55 JUSTIN- That's true. Like the water. And the water. ALICE- Increasingly close. Lyle- And Flight 19, and all the other ghosts in the green triangle. He kept in radio contact with the flight ahead, which is another BSAA flight flown by Captain Frank Griffin, that was on an Avro-Lencastrian, which is a converted bomber. Yeah, like even more of a converted bomber. This is based on the bomber, that one actually was a bomber in a previous life.

Starting point is 02:22:25 JUSTIN You accidentally can ditch your... you could actually ditch the passengers. ALICE Yeah, the passenger, right, he sits up front. JUSTIN So yeah, he is keeping in radio contact with the flight ahead of him to determine the weather conditions, but the Tudor 4 was also slightly faster, so over about ten hours he closed the distance, right? Now by that time, Frank Griffin on the Lancastrian realized, okay, we've been blown about sixty miles off course, we did this through celestial navigation. ALICE Yeah, because the Lancastrian had a dome that

Starting point is 02:22:59 you could look out at the stars through. JUSTIN Yeah, planes had this, but you didn't have radio range for a VOR or whatever, like any of the other radio navigation. Yeah, so you had a guy to the dome with the sextant. Literally is what they did. JUSTIN Back to Albrey Matcher again. ALICE Yep. It all goes back to the sea.

Starting point is 02:23:18 JUSTIN So he relays this back to the... ALICE To Star Tiger. JUSTIN To Star Tiger. Star Tiger, yes. ALICE And cool codename. JUSTIN And so, well, it's the name of the airplane. ALICE It's a cool airplane name. JUSTIN Yeah, exactly.

Starting point is 02:23:34 And so, the navigator on the Star Tiger figures out a new course, which puts them directly into a gale, to get to Bermuda. Captain McMillan was like, eh, we'll probably still land with about an hour's worth of fuel left though, we're fine. So later that night a merchant ship about halfway between Bermuda and the Delaware Bay caught sight of a low flying aircraft heading directly towards Cape Hatteras. ALICE No. No.

Starting point is 02:24:03 No. So far it's not even the Bermuda Triangle, it's just Cape Hatteras. No. No. No. So far it's not even the Bermuda Triangle, it's just Cape Hatteras. Just Cape Hatteras. They keep avoiding the Bermuda Triangle. You pass through the Bermuda Triangle and then something bad happens. Contact with the aircraft was lost about three o'clock in the morning from land. Griffin's flight was approaching Bermuda around four o'clock in the morning, he radioed Star Tiger to say he was switching to the telephone to contact Bermuda Approach Control, he received

Starting point is 02:24:33 no response. There was no contact with the flight from that point onwards. The search lasted five days and just god-awful weather turned up, absolutely nothing. ALICE Add to list of mysterious disappearances. JUSTIN Yes. You know, there's a couple theories as to what happened here, one of which is that they forgot they were only at two thousand feet, and started descending from twenty thousand feet.

Starting point is 02:24:58 ALICE Whoops. SEAN That's a pretty... like, that's a hard one. JUSTIN Yeah, I would hope so. The other one is, of course, they're just way off course, you know, the weather's too bad. Yeah, it sounds like- And the planes weren't that good back then. No.

Starting point is 02:25:12 BSAA's tutors were all grounded, but upon protest from officials from the airline, a formal investigation was held, and it was completely inconclusive. So they started flying the planes again. Okay, sure. Yeah. We don't know what happened. Uh, is putting them back in service. So BSAA star aerial was another Avro Tudor four. Is it four or six? Did I copy that wrong? I don't know. Cause they're both, they're both exist. I think they're both fours, and then I did,

Starting point is 02:25:46 they wrote them in numerals backwards. Fuck, Romans, they're not even around anymore, so fuck them. Yeah, exactly. They're smart guys. On January 17th, 1949, it was pressed into service when another aircraft's engine failed on landing to take the passengers from that aircraft from Bermuda to Kingston, Jamaica.

Starting point is 02:26:08 Right? This is not such a long flight, right? The weather was excellent. The flight was taken at high altitude because you have efficiency up there and the weather's good enough to do it. And after exactly two radio transmissions to Kingston, the flight went completely silent and never showed up. They had six days of searching, turned up, nothing. Whoops. Yeah. So, you know, there's some questions that day about radio reception, allegations of

Starting point is 02:26:37 sabotage of the plane, right? Nothing firm. Some other later theories include, you know, since the heaters were burning fuel and located in between the hydraulic lines, maybe there was a leak in the hydraulic line and then the plane just exploded, right? ALICE Oh, the old PVM Mariner. JUSTIN Yeah. Maybe some of these planes just exploded.

Starting point is 02:27:02 It's a bad design, there's a reason they don't fly them anymore. But these two incidents, with very similar airplanes in the region, these are the incidents that sort of led to the conspiracy of the Bermuda Triangle, which is, again, fairly recent, as Tom discussed earlier. These two shitty planes crashed in circumstances easily explained by other things. It must be a vortex. Probably. It must be Atlantis. Wow. It's the vortex of capitalism. We weren't meant to sail west. Tolkien was right. You're trying to fly a plane. The Numenoreans are trying to fly a plane to Valinor to bomb

Starting point is 02:27:49 the seat of the Baelar, and as a consequence they were destroyed for the Hebrids. Yeah. And a lot of these mysterious Primuta Triangle stuff, it's more mysterious because no one survived. Let's talk about one where people did. There we go. Wow, look at that. Finally a good fucking ship. Yeah. Look at that Topsol schooner. That is so, this is like, oh beautiful. I'm doing the chef's kiss. People can't see. This is the pride of Baltimore. Yo, this is my pride and joy, yo. The Pride of Baltimore was laid down in April of 1976.

Starting point is 02:28:28 It was launched in February 1977. It was commissioned by Mayor William Donald Schieffer on May 1st, 1977, as a global goodwill ambassador for the Charm City, for the state of Maryland, and most importantly, for the Chesapeake Bay area, you know, the land of pleasant living. Just imagine like for Fleet Week, the pride of Baltimore coming into your fucking port, they're like, we're spreading good will, yes, what's up? Just tossing natty bows out.

Starting point is 02:29:00 Yo guys, try some crab cakes. It's a replica Baltimore Clipper, 90 feet long, 23 feet beam, 9 foot 9 inch draft. Did we lose November? Uh, no I'm here, I was muted because I was busy trying to Photoshop an Amish buggy onto a pair of Air Force Navigator wings. Sorry. Oh, yes. Uh, this is some real municipal goodness here, I was just, uh...

Starting point is 02:29:31 I appreciate a mayor commissioning a sailing ship, and I don't think enough mayors do that. No, and I- This is entirely paid for by the city of Baltimore. I assume that Nova was just struck in awe. It was! Yeah, certainly. It is, like, I can't say enough. This is a fucking beautiful ship. I want it. Yeah, this is a Toppsal schooner, right? Toppsal schooner, yeah.

Starting point is 02:29:53 This is built at tremendous expense to be as accurate to the original as possible with the original methods of craftsmanship in full view of the public, adjacent to the Maryland Science Center, right there in the middle of the inner harbor, complete with demonstrations and tours of the construction, all paid for by the city. I'm just imagining, yeah, we're here at the Maryland Science Center, and it's like a guy in a lab coat,

Starting point is 02:30:21 but he's got a Ravens jersey on underneath. And we're here trying to figure out ways to get fucked up quicker we've developed a natty bow with twice the alcohols give me give me a second here guys my recording just stopped uh-oh fuck i think i know why let's see if i can i can beat the uh clock here your audio recording or your...

Starting point is 02:30:48 The audio, not the video, but the video will stop soon. It's showing on, like, the thing. It's connected. With the local stop due to lack of hard drive space. I think I beat it. Do you want to... Fingers crossed. Yep, 20 gigabytes left.

Starting point is 02:31:05 Says it's still recording. Alright, let's go. So anyway, we're at the Maryland Science Center. We're trying to develop advancements in crab cakes. Advancements in having an accent pretty similar to Philadelphia, but not quite. Alright, I got a second local going. I knew I should have checked that before I started. I figured I had space though.

Starting point is 02:31:33 Damn. Anyway. Now it's gonna be impossible to buy hard drives going to the tariffs, but you know. That's true. You're just hot swapping hard drives as you're recording. Yeah, exactly. So yeah, they built this as sort of a public service, right? As sort of, you know, we're going to have this as a Goodwill Ambassador, it's also going to be an exhibit for the Bicentennial, we're going to build this Baltimore Clipper, you

Starting point is 02:32:03 know, we're going to bring people around to see it. You know, this, this, this, this is entirely for the people. It's rare that you see like, um, civic mindedness like this anymore. You know, I, I mean, you know, these days people be like, why are you spending all that money on a boat when you could spend it on police beating up black people? Um, you know, this, uh, it's an incredible thing that they did. So it spent nine years sailing the seas and visited ports all over

Starting point is 02:32:33 the Americas and Europe had racked up about 150,000 miles. And on May 14th, 1986, while sailing home from Puerto Rico, she sailed into a microburst and capsized basically instantly and sank, killing three of the crew and the captain. Jesus. They must have caught it with, like, out, like, in a compromising position where you couldn't, like, briefly sail fast. Nah, it was really fast, apparently, according to the folks who survived, it was like, it was, y'know,

Starting point is 02:33:06 cause this boat was known to, this ship was known to, y'know, it was wet, as they say. ALICE Getting, like, Barrett's privateered, but for the city of Baltimore in the 70s? In the 70s of, like, the 20th century. JUSTIN The mid-80s. ALICE Jesus. Yeah. Um, the storm was so violent, there was not even time to send a distress call, right? It just flipped over. The remaining eight crew managed to cling to a partially inflated life raft for four days.

Starting point is 02:33:41 Or I think five days. They were in a busy shipping lane, and they at least had flares, and they sighted about half dozen ships who didn't respond to the flares. It's like, fuck you, don't want to, don't feel like it. Yeah. There's a special place in Boat Hell for you. Not rendering aid. JUSTIN They are eventually picked up in the middle of the night by a passing Norwegian tanker who happened to spot them.

Starting point is 02:34:12 Because everyone's wearing their hi-vis stuff, they managed to somehow... they were out of flares, but somehow this tanker spots them. And the tanker picks them up, and, y'know, gives them food and shelter. The one guy was like, damn, we smelled really bad. JUSTIN LAUGHS. The, the... there's actually flares strategy. I don't know if you know that. There's, there's, there's, like, when you're doing, like, your search and rescue training,

Starting point is 02:34:38 there's like a, or any, like, boat operations training, there's like, yeah, you, there's like a certain way you use your flares. Like, you're supposed to, like, well, you use your flares Like you're supposed to like well if you have aerial ones just use them first Then like signal your like fighter location with the handheld but like yeah, like you're not supposed to burn them all at once I'm not saying they did but like I don't think they did I think it was just like People are assholes. People are assholes. I guess Well, it was all like cruise ships and stuff, so, you know. It's probably a bunch of fucking Colts fans.

Starting point is 02:35:08 Yeah, exactly. So this is, you know, ultimately I think the lesson of the Bermuda Triangle is like, okay, sometimes shit just happens. And you know, that shit just happens to happen in the Bermuda Triangle. And the other thing is- Where are those stuff-a-cause? They immediately started building Pride of Baltimore, too. Hell yeah.

Starting point is 02:35:28 Which I believe is laid up at the moment. Unfortunately, they're transferring it to a non-profit, rather than having it owned by the city. Laid up at Gordnery, her captain on half pay. Sounds like a Patrick O'Brien novel. Yeah. Bring her back, bring her back. Every city should have a ship. That's a good point, yeah. Like Philadelphia should, well,

Starting point is 02:35:52 Philadelphia should have like a frigate. Yeah, we got the Moschullo. I don't think that's seaworthy. No, we should have is a reproduction of the USS Philadelphia. Which I think was one of the original six. Was she a full ship? Yeah, she was a full ship 36 gun frigate, so she would've been like a six or eight I guess, by British standards. How's the Photoshop going, Nova?

Starting point is 02:36:15 ALICE Yeah, real good. Real good. I'm trying to do like a tail section on a Pennsylvania Dutch buggy. Which is going pretty well. ALICE Get the SVG, so that way people can put it on Blender and make liveries for Flight Sim. ALICE Hell yeah. JUSTIN So, yeah, even to this day, things are still happening in the Bermuda Triangle, probably because it's part of the ocean. ALICE Yeah.

Starting point is 02:36:44 Like we said, the SS El Faro happened in the Bermuda Triangle. because it's part of the ocean. ALICE Yeah. Like we said, the SS El Faro happened in the Bermuda Triangle. Because it's like, part of the ocean. ALICE How deep does this conspiracy go? ALICE All the way to the underwater gun. All the way to Atlantis. And here on this slide, I put this in here, this is just a... this is a 1950 Associated Press article. It popularized the idea before it was named the

Starting point is 02:37:07 Bermuda Triangle. And you can see, and also, beautiful handwritten lettering here, describing the different vessels that disappeared. Oh, that is lovely. Flight 19 is on there. I'm trying to see what... Oh, Star Tiger's on there. I love how that turns into, like, a PBM rescue plane where 13 aboard was also lost, as opposed

Starting point is 02:37:27 to exploded mid-flight because all of the pipes were made out of cardboard and leaked kerosene everywhere. I'm reading the captions. This map made by a staff artist. Remember when they used to have those? Oh my god. Many moons ago when these old folks were young, yeah. Plane carrying 32 persons flew nearly a thousand miles toward Miami, but never arrived.

Starting point is 02:37:50 Ooh. Mysteries of air, sea, remind moderns, the shrinking world still swallows up men. What a headline! No one's gonna foot rate a fucking... No, the headlines now are, uh, train runs into people. Like, oh, it jumped on... You could still disappear forever and never be found. I like moderns as a derogatory term.

Starting point is 02:38:13 Remind feckless moderns. Feckless moderns. Yeah, whoever wrote this was like a big in the celestial navigation. This radio thing will never serve. Will never serve. You have to know your stars. You have to know your canopus and arcturus. It's a great headline because even though it's a shrinking world, you have nice figurative language. It swallows up men. We think we're the master of the world. I really do. We still do.

Starting point is 02:38:46 Like, and we're not that far removed from, from, from fucking steam engines and, and, and having to pop up to the fucking navigation dome. Yeah. And we, but, but we did develop the weather machine to send the hurricanes away. Yeah. Um, but they will have to go through here. We're not that good yet. Yeah. Yeah. We could, we have to they have to get a little Momentum before we could push them Yeah Hey, you can go to the next slide this one fucking drives me nuts. So yeah, I was looking for a map of

Starting point is 02:39:18 Common seagoing routes of trade in the Bermuda Triangle You'll see that somewhere in this gallery of bullshit is that somewhere. Never came back. What really happened? Did he survive this? Did he survive? Yeah, let's look at these. I hate you, Shove. Just pilots survive. This is what he said when he saw, he saw what, a plane, a fucking like, Moony flying into a vortex with lightning underneath. I like how the one, like, column one, row two, which is like, it's the AI generated

Starting point is 02:39:53 instead of like a whirlpool, like a triangle shaped depression. It's a triangle whirlpool. Oh yeah. There's ships being sunk. Did he survive this? This was the last time I saw them. Unlocking Bermuda Triangle's darkest secrets. Bermuda Triangle.

Starting point is 02:40:08 Bermuda Triangle. Uh. I like the idea that the Bermuda Triangle is actually just a small triangle shaped depression in the ocean. And no one was able to avoid this or target it. You see it and you're like, oh fuck, it's over. It's sucking in at A380. It's pulling an A380 from 40,000 feet down into it.

Starting point is 02:40:30 If Skilla and Trybnis were like modern navigational obstacles that you just say, alright, just don't go near them. Yeah, that's pretty easy. It's like, okay, about six nautical miles out, when you get near the sirens, put your earplugs in. We would have procedures about this. Oh, I should've clicked on this. This says Bermuda Triangle Miracle Silence, and it's an AI-generated image of a whirlpool

Starting point is 02:40:59 with also a water spout inside the whirlpool. And it says the Bermuda Triangle and it's a PowerPoint. That rules. Oh, I should have looked that up. But yeah, it's, or we have like a toxic sign. And that's a 787 that looks like to be coming out. There's two of them. Yeah. Oh yeah, yeah, yeah.

Starting point is 02:41:19 It's just- You want like a horrible, bizarre phenomenon in terms of the ocean, look at the Bay of Fundy. I mean... ALICE Yeah! That's some weird shit. JUSTIN Yeah, exactly. ALICE Listen, I've flown over the Bermuda Triangle several times, in actual real life,

Starting point is 02:41:36 I am not dead yet. ALICE I think a lot of people have, is the thing. Like, the mystery is not, it doesn't have hands anymore. Yeah. Yeah. We have, like, live 24-7 coverage of the ocean. You can pull up flight radar, you can pull up, well, in Fags, uh... MarineTraffic.com. Yeah.

Starting point is 02:41:57 Oh, that might be... Oh, here's my rant. God, I fucking hate AI, I fucking hate the internet, the internet should've been Wikipedia and email, we peaked in 93, just end this pilot, this fucking planet already, look at these titles and thumbnails, this is the stuff that teenagers watch instead of reading in school. This is why hacks like Brandon Sanderson have jobs. This is why people are writing books with info boxes in them, describing character stats

Starting point is 02:42:20 and their power rankings and shit, in the middle of a fucking book. ALICE There's a real darkness in Brandon Sanderson. I read a long piece about him that, like, got some of the surface weirdness, but I think missed some of the, like, real... I dunno. I felt brushed by the wings of something dark. With Brandon Sanderson. Was it the one where the guy lived with him for like a couple days?

Starting point is 02:42:45 ALICE Yeah, yeah, yeah. SEAN If you, I've said this to you before, if there's ever, anyone, though, if you wanna do a takedown on this motherfucker, I watch all his lectures. Hate watch them. I hate them. He sucks. He's so fucking feckless.

Starting point is 02:42:58 ALICE I don't know who this person is. SEAN He sucks. ALICE He's like a Mormon science fiction author. One of his many. SEAN There's gonna be people who are like, and then when like, but like, but Tom, you suck, it was like, I read in the book, when the ghost floats around that tells you what emotion you're supposed to feel, said, sad, I cried, and it made me feel really important.

Starting point is 02:43:21 And like, the racism, where it's your eye color, that really stood in for the racism of your skin color. I thought that was really good world building. Read adult books, stop reading Harry Potter. Fucking read... God, read... You want to be sad, read anything a Russian's ever written. I was... over last weekend, I watched... it was part of Adam Curtis's, I forget what the documentary was called.

Starting point is 02:43:52 I got really mad, because it looked really anti-nuclear, and then, you know, at the very end there was an interview with one of the Soviet scientists, and he was like, well, our reactors sucked because our scientists never read Dostoevsky and Tolstoy. And I was like, oh shit, no, this is entirely right. My opinion has gone 180 degrees. You need a broad education. You can't just have STEM. Yeah, no, you read good literature.

Starting point is 02:44:22 Not young adult novels. That's trash that's supposed to go in the garbage. Yeah Oh with it. This is the most cancerful thing I I have said stuff like this back when I was still active on Twitter And I had had people like go off one you want to read it for fun fucking go ahead But it's like like I like I'm gonna eat a cheesesteak. I'm not gonna eat cheesesteak every fucking day Yeah, I get some vegetables and And you know, yeah go go read literature. That's a vegetable of the brain. It's kind of fucking wild. Yes

Starting point is 02:44:56 Yeah, you have to you have to get get some good fiction in you I mean, yeah, this is also like a danger of reading too much nonfiction books Yeah, it's like damn I got World II pilled because I read too many dad books. Yeah, it's a balanced diet. And you need your Star Trek technical man. Yes, this is also true. I need to know how the holodeck collects the comp that's clearly covering the floors and using that in the replicators

Starting point is 02:45:20 because it's broken down to constituent matter. You can go to the next slide. Well, not linger. Look, this was a snapshot taken today by me, looking at marine traffic. Look at all those boats going through the Bermuda Triangle. I wonder how many of them made it safely home. Probably all of them, because we would have heard about it. That's a lot of boats.

Starting point is 02:45:41 Except for the ones up here in Cape Hatteras. All these guys are dead. Yeah. Oh, God. Terrifying. Yeah Hatteras. All these guys are dead. Yeah. Oh God, terrifying. Yeah, you just can't ship anything through that. Listen, it's called the Graveyard of the Atlantic for a fucking reason. I can't believe they sent people there. Yeah, nominative determinism sometimes, you know, is real,

Starting point is 02:46:00 especially if the name came after the thing that happened. Yes. So I have, like, so what's the real cause? Is it like the spooky vortex? And we didn't even touch the methane, how do you say, clathrate? Clathrate. Clathrate theory, where methane is bubbling out of, because of global warming, out of the seabed, and it's reducing the density of the water and these these like boats are just sinking. Ehhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh uhhhhh uhhhhh uhhhh uhhhh uhhhh uhhhh uhhhh uhhhh uhhhh uhhhh uhhhh uhhhh uhhhh uhhhh uhhhh uhhhh uhhhh uhhhh uhhhh uhhhh uhhhh uhhhh uhhhh uhhhh uhhhh uhhhh uhhhh uhhhh uhhhh uhhhh uhhhh uhhhh uhhhh uhhhh uhhhh uhhhh uhhhh uhhhh uhhhh uhhhh uhhhh uhhhh of cherry picking data from a high traffic area that's also prone to severe weather. Eh, probably. It's probably the ghosts. But, you can never, can you ever be sure?

Starting point is 02:46:47 I don't think so. It could be the ghosts that are driving the weather, I mean... We're forced to assume so, and panic. And here's the most important fact, right? If you own a ship, you don't have to pay any extra insurance for going through the traffic hole. If it really was a thing, they would be charging you up the ass. Yes.

Starting point is 02:47:07 Yeah, why are you gonna take that into the death zone? You know, like, please don't do that. We don't, you're actually, your contract is void now because you, it would be like a right, like a clause in it, like, all right, you can't take your ship to the new triangle unless you pay the money because everyone dies there. Yeah, it would be like conducting any business in the United States six months from now.

Starting point is 02:47:27 Yeah, exactly. Like, if I... What are you doing? Get out! Like, I'm sure there's like a clause in my life insurance that if I built like my own space rocket and blew myself up, they might be like, yeah, that was fuckin' idiot. We're not paying. This is for a heart attack, not for trying to build a rocket.

Starting point is 02:47:53 Not trying to be Elon Musk. Yeah. Ugh. So, and there was a quote from Noah, I'll leave that, it says, there's no evidence that mysterious disappearances occur with any greater frequency than the Bermuda Triangle, than any other large, well traveled area of the ocean. ALICE That's fine, they fired the guy who wrote that, so now Noah's gonna be like, ah, draw your own conclusions.

Starting point is 02:48:14 SEAN You jumped on me there, that's what I was gonna say next. ALICE Sorry, sorry. SEAN It's okay. It's okay. Yeah. So, what's the verdict, I guess, Bermuda Triangle, real? Is it fake?

Starting point is 02:48:25 Devin, can you put in the Jonathan Frakes, it's fake, we made it up? ALICE & LIAM LAUGH It's real, but really selectively, like it did the British airplane, but none of the other ones. JUSTIN It's gonna be like, 50 years from now, Flight 19 is gonna come back in. Yeah. Sorry guys, how about that? Maybe like, there's some weird antipode thing, so like Flight 19 will come out of the Indian

Starting point is 02:48:53 Ocean and then Malaysian Airlines flight, 370, will pop up out of the British And they crash into each other. Oh shit. Oh my god. It's because they don't teach celestial navigation anymore. It's because they don't teach celestial navigation anymore. It happened exactly twice. Oh shit. Oh my god. Just like, yeah, not it. It's because they don't teach celestial navigation anymore. There was a time warp that happened exactly twice.

Starting point is 02:49:09 Yeah, that would have been a fun episode of, what's that episode of Star Trek? Yesterday's Enterprise where the Enterprise C comes out of the time vortex. But imagine the Enterprise D just like front and the way they just both explode at the end. They just end credits. End of the series. End of the series.

Starting point is 02:49:27 It's not a time loop. That's just the end of the series. Five minute episodes. Go to commercial. Ran out of money. That would be a really funny way to end a Star Trek series. They crash and they all die. That's it.

Starting point is 02:49:41 I hope that's how they end Discovery. God, that show fucking sucks. Ooh, it's the mycelium. Fuck, fuck, shut the fuck up. You go into the 32nd century, and you got ships with the cells that aren't attached to the ship, they look like fucking... I don't know, they just fucking look stupid. Make the ships look cool.

Starting point is 02:50:00 Yeah, fuck you. Fuck you, Paramount. Yeah, we found out a spatial anomaly, we better go into it. Oh, turns out it was a black hole. Shit. Or, yeah, they called it a black star in the original series. Like, oh, what do they mean by that? Not black hole.

Starting point is 02:50:18 Well. Alright. So, yeah. Bermuda Triangle is fine. Bermuda Triangle disproved conspiracy theorists in pieces. Yes. Exactly. We've debunked it finally.

Starting point is 02:50:31 On the thumbnail. Don't go to Cape Hatteras unless you're on the beaches. The thumbnail needs to be Roz doing like a Ben Shapiro like... Yeah. Don't go into the Bermuda Triangle. Or, do go into the Bermuda Triangle or do go into the Bermuda Triangle. Let's say for the sake of argument, the Okamane flight of US Navy torpedo bombers, and let's say for the sake of argument that you don't know what you're doing.

Starting point is 02:50:54 And let's say that hypothetically, the compasses on your aircraft break. What would you do? You're supposed to have compasses on your airplane. Airplanes' compasses are tied into the clocks. So why would you get rid of them? It doesn't make any sense. It doesn't make any logical sense. These are men in World War II.

Starting point is 02:51:09 They knew what they were doing. This sounds to me like some sort of woke smear campaign designed to make us think that men from Corpus Christi can't fly on planes. And I don't believe that. We are scared by the fact that this Texan man didn't have pronouns. Yes. The only man without pronouns in existence. Wow.

Starting point is 02:51:29 You can't refer to him. My pronouns are well and I see. My pronouns are sweet and tea. Now, we have a segment on this podcast called Safety Third. Trying to do Eric Adams there. Shake hands with danger. Ahoy, Nova, Liam, and Roz. That's a good greeting.

Starting point is 02:51:53 The ahoy was well chosen, I thought. No Liam, unfortunately. And various awesome guest hosts. Ah, saved it. I would like to share a story about aviation safety, and a hastily thought out and very stupid idea. I once worked as a mechanic for a small flying service. We operated a fleet of small seaplanes.

Starting point is 02:52:16 One of which is the subject of this story. I hope that's the seaplane in the video. This is a gorgeous truck, I gotta start playing SnowRunner right now. On the very first day on the job, my first task was assisting in beaching a seaplane from the ocean onto a poorly maintained homemade trailer and towing it across the airfield to our hangar, where it needed to be serviced. This was normally done with a well-worn and very rusty pickup truck owing to the fact that it was regularly driven into the ocean. This rules, this rules. And then also used to

Starting point is 02:52:57 spread salt on icy winter roads. It had never had a chance. On this particular day, a large amount of slimy seaweed had washed ashore. And this truck, which had most of its bed underwater and was blowing bubbles out the tailpipe, like a kid with a straw and a cup of Coca-Cola had become buried up to the axles in seaweed, unable to move and unable to disengage the attached seaplane which was sitting on the trailer holding it to the seafloor. The floats were only partially floating. A fellow mechanic and I were dispatched in another pickup truck with a chain and a hand-held radio. were dispatched in another pickup truck with a chain, and a handheld radio, since we had

Starting point is 02:53:46 to keep two-way communications with everyone else using the airfield lest we cross into the path of an arriving or departing aircraft. In hindsight, this was a really stupid mission. ALICE As I say, nothing I haven't done in SnowRunner or Spin Tires. Yeah. Hook a truck, to a truck, to a trailer, to a 70 year old airplane, and tow it out of the ocean. When I used to play Kerbal Space Program this is how all my space missions tended to end. When will you go out there and pull it back?

Starting point is 02:54:21 I just, your capsule accidentally gets sent to the bottom of the ocean, you start freaking the fuck out of classophobia. You ever seen the specially modified seaplane specific pickup trucks? Oh yeah, they were all the really high ones that you can crank upwards. No, like they cut the bed off and then they put an extension on the front. Oh, sick. That's pretty cool looking. Let me Google this real quick.

Starting point is 02:54:49 Yeah. This is evidently not one of these, but... It's very funny looking. It's like a backwards truck. It's a backwards truck, yeah. When we arrived at the beach, we parked the second truck on wet grass and we attached it to the half-suburged seaweed encased truck with a 20-foot long chain. I got out with a handheld radio to act as the safety observer, which was not very effective, owing to the insane cacophony that was about to commence. What I saw still blows my mind to this day. The mechanic in

Starting point is 02:55:25 the second truck took up the slack and began to pull, with two 4x4 trucks pulling with all their might and spinning their tires wildly against wet vegetation. This convoy went nowhere. The pilot had the idea to utilize the thrust of the seaplane Reverse thrust! Reverse thrust! The sound of this seaweed being ground into nothing To utilize the thrust of the seaplane as a third source of power to push the trailer and attached truck up the beach This is me getting yelled at and playing bat sim and flight simulator because I use reverse

Starting point is 02:56:09 thrusts to back away from the terminal. You can't do that. Break every window. You're not allowed to do that. I do what I want. We established radio communications between the three vehicles and myself and began the maneuver, with each operator having independent throttle control over their respective vehicle, much like old-timey steam train engineers had to do to start moving a multi-unit freight

Starting point is 02:56:38 train. PUSH PULL, right? The driver of the stuck truck gave it full throttle instantly and dug it deeper into the mire, while the other two operators applied steadily increasing power as they began to inch forward. Progress was not fast and the amount of power to complete the maneuver needed to be increased. You are going to crush the middle guy like into a cube. At first, it started to look like the dumbass express

Starting point is 02:57:11 would solve the problem of getting on an airplane with no wheels unmired from the seaweed and onto dry land as this corrosion riddled mechanical centipede inched very slowly up the beach. And then all hell broke loose. little mechanical centipede inched very slowly up the beach. And then all hell broke loose. With the combined horsepower of the two trucks with their eight spinning wheels with essentially no traction, and the aircraft pushing now at full takeoff power, with its floods shoved

Starting point is 02:57:37 against the front bulkhead of the trailer, there was over one thousand combined horsepower now engaged in an effort to move about twenty feet. When the stuck truck's rear wheels had finally breached the surface of the ocean, they suddenly broke through the seaweed and dug into the beach surface, which was made of sand and medium sized rocks. The chaos that erupted sounded like a miniature version of a World War Two air battle as a nine cylinder 450 horsepower radial aircraft engine in the rear and two V8 truck engines in the front roared and the second truck sprayed fist sized rocks towards the airplane, which was, again, I cannot

Starting point is 02:58:25 stress this enough, at full throttle takeoff power, spinning an eight-foot metal propeller. Rock and sand instantly began to bounce off the trailer and the hollow metal floats of the airplane, which, if you know anything about acoustics, sounded like a death metal drummer on acid. Eeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee. the set approximately four feet above the floats so I guess gravity kept it safe. The semi-submersible truck driver, essentially dirt bike style, roosted a pickup truck, added an airplane, full power with beach sand and rocks. When I thought about the carnage that even a single, let alone hundreds of rocks, kicked up by spinning tires, hitting a propeller, spinning at 2400rpms could have done, I vowed never to do anything like this again.

Starting point is 02:59:26 Yeah. Had the truck been better maintained and equipped with better tires, there likely woulda been a shredded wreck of an airplane. Or maybe it wouldn'ta gotten stuck in the first place. I guess we'll never know. I'm falling out of love with seaplanes, which is a difficult thing to say as someone who loves the movie Porco Rosso. JUSTIN Now sometimes they just explode for no reason, I mean, yeah.

Starting point is 02:59:50 In hindsight, we should have coupled the first truck to one of the many tractors or construction vehicles on or around the airfield, which likely would have snapped it in half, but time is money, so we used a short daisy chain of medium-duty rotten pickup trucks with poor traction instead and nearly destroyed a $500,000 aircraft. Well, we have a pickup truck multiple units. I mean that would be... That would make a lot of sense to me. Yeah. How do the guys who do like the high and wide loads do it? You know, they can pitch up multiple like tractor trailers together, you know. So when the dumbass express, which had traveled only approximately 80 feet was

Starting point is 03:00:32 finally on dry level ground, we pulled all the rocks and slimy seaweed off the trailer and the seaplane floats and the rusty wreck of a pickup truck successfully pulled the rickety monstrosity to the hanger from whence it still flies to this day. I am assuming that's the seaplane and not the pickup truck. I greatly enjoy your podcast, it helps keep stupid crap like this from occurring, while also keeping smiles on thousands of faces. Thank you, please don't cancel your Patreon.

Starting point is 03:01:04 All the best from Piper, he, him, faces. Thank you, please don't cancel your Patreon. All the best from Piper. He him they. Thank you Piper. Thank you Piper. I was sort of hoping that the plane at Bulltake Up Power would start lifting the truck, and towing the truck. Like it starts to fly but it's barely airborne, the truck is just getting cragged. It pulls the trailer up with it and the barely airborne. It's just the truck is just getting bragged. It's it pulls the trailer up with it.

Starting point is 03:01:26 And it's just whippin behind it. Yeah, it's just like knocking shit over. And the plane's just flying on its own. There's no one in there. That would be very it would be horrible. Flies directly to the Bermuda Triangle. Yeah, kind of drone seaplane. SEAN And like, actually the spinning action caused

Starting point is 03:01:47 by the fugue flight shape actually creates the vortex, and then like, you know, a full A380 flies out of it just in that thumbnail. JUSTIN Yeah, exactly. And then the plane, from the vortex, the course is changed and it flies directly into the Cape Hatteras lighthouse. Just as they're loading it on the train, it knocks it over. And the whole time it's going... Alright, well, that was Safety Third. Shake hands with danger. Our next episode will be on Chernobyl. Does anyone have commercials before we go? was Safety Third.

Starting point is 03:02:25 Our next episode will be on Chernobyl. Does anyone have commercials before we go? Go listen to 10,000 Lost in Podcasts. The only Philadelphia sports podcast that exists. And you could learn all kinds of exciting things from the last episode, such as why all sex in space will have to be BDSM. Because otherwise you just float away. Yeah. Unless, unless, unless that's being a bratty sub.

Starting point is 03:02:56 She keeps loosening her straps, god damn it! No, yeah, go listen to that, because had to step in because the same reason I'm in here because Liam's off gallivanting in a place with redacted having fun. Wow, who would do that? Typical. Yeah. Yeah, go listen to that podcast. If you want to find me, Tom Payne on Blue Sky.

Starting point is 03:03:20 And yeah, go listen to that podcast. Bad Roz over at Dova on. And one of our bonuses. And it's tangentially about sports at this point. Dumb bullshit. Dumb bullshit. You have the sports in the middle of the ad structure and then you just, you know, you talk about things. Yeah, and our success or whatever is entirely tied

Starting point is 03:03:41 to how good the sports teams are doing. We got like a thousand first week downloads on like one with the Super Bowl. I guess people were just like, ah, fuck it, I'll listen to this one. They're talking about the Super Bowl. They're actually talking about sports. Yeah.

Starting point is 03:03:52 But yeah, go check that one out. In short, go Phils. Yeah, go Phils. Beat the Dodgers. Oh, hell yeah. Yeah, so we missed that, but we gave the Dodgers their first loss. I think these Phils, I think these kids are good.

Starting point is 03:04:04 Yes. They might be good at baseball. All fillies, I think these kids are good. They might be good at baseball. Perfect. Alright, sounds good. Alright. Let's hope it was perfect. Alright. If my face is in this Devon, please delete it.

Starting point is 03:04:14 How do I? Alright, no that's the wrong button. You have to hit the stop button. Yeah, I have to hit the stop.

Well There‘s Your Problem - Episode 178: The Bermuda Triangle

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