Who Shat On The Floor At My Wedding? And Other Crimes - S2 E4 The Case Of The Tiny Suit/Case - ‘Eye candy’

Episode Date: June 13, 2024

The team arrive in Sweden and the pressure is on to crack the case before they leave in 10 days’ time. They launch head first into their first big interrogation with the victim’s ex lover Mikael - the man Kristina dated at the time both the tiny suit and suitcase arrived on her veranda. After unnerving the suspect with some of their more unorthodox interrogation techniques, the trio throw Professor Mike Berry into the room to psycho analyse Mikael. Was this a crime of passion? Follow us on instagram for the case evidence and behind the scenes. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Previously on The Case of the Tiny Suitcase. We would love to fly you out to Sweden. We were thinking of sending you undercover. Yeah. When this happened with the suitcase, our relationship was almost over. But he was here working on my cousin's house. Yeah, he's a big one. We need to get our hands on him. big one. We need to get our hands on him. And then Lars reveals something entirely new to us, something we were absolutely not expecting. It was like a little cow with a little head and four legs was standing on my stair someday when I came home. A small chair like a stool for a child or an adult could sit on it?

A chair. What the hell? Attention passengers, this is your captain speaking. We are now starting our descent towards Gothenburg in Sweden. We expect to touch down at 10.55 a.m. local time. We hope you enjoyed the flight, and thank you for flying with us. We're on the road to nowhere. Hopefully not. So, we're here, we're in Sweden.

This is happening. We're in a car. Every second we're inching closer to a new crime scene, a new victim, new suspects. It is currently 22 degrees, bright sunshine, not a cloud to be seen, precipitation is zero, it's classified as sunny, humidity is 49%, delicious, air quality is fair. is 49% delicious. Air quality is fair. The wind gusts 19km per hour. Cloud cover 9%. I don't see a cloud so that's a lie. Visibility 16km.

So it is a cracker of a day. As Karen mentioned, we are inching closer to the crime scene. We're inching closer to our beautiful hotel that we'll be spending the next 10 to 12 days in. 12 days actually. Three stars.

And I'd just actually firstly like to kick off by asking Helen, do you know what country we're in? Oh, you're making fun of me now. We arrived at the airport into Gothenburg Airport. We're sitting in baggage claim and we're waiting for our bags. And Helen said, where are we? Are we in Finland or are we in Sweden? So that's a great start. To be honest, I don't need to plan very much when you're around, Karen,

because you tend to have an agenda for every minute of every, you know, waking hour. I have never in my life, including my career as a producer, seen a schedule so meticulously planned to the second. There are scheduled sleep-ins for some of us on some of the days. I actually took Helen's lie-in out of the schedule. Oh, well, it's nice to have a lie-in, especially on a holiday, right? This is not a holiday. This is definitely, this is not a holiday. You know, the woman, when we were picking up the car, she's like, what are you doing here? Are you going into Gothenburg? Are you going to Stockholm? And we were like, what you know is it work or is it is it pleasure and I was like

oh no we're here on holiday and Lauren's like no we're not we're here on business I was like well it's kind of holiday business like what is it yeah and then we had a fight about what it was in front of the car lady and we agree that it's a mix of both the clock is ticking we've got like 11 or 12 days to actually solve this crime the The pressure is on this time. Let's be honest, like as much as we had fun in season one, but we didn't crack the case. I feel like if we don't crack a second case, that's like our careers in jeopardy, tatters, in tatters. Like we are. I don't know. There wouldn't be a season three if we don't solve this. So I think all credibility will be gone. What credibility is there? Exactly. The mere shreds of credibility. So to focus on the positives here,

which is that we can only do better, right? Yes, exactly. And better to not solving a crime is solving a crime. And as well, don't forget, your mother-in-law, it's like her dying wish, even though she's not dying. Exactly. And all that pressure on that stuff.

The future of our podcasting careers rests on this next 10 days. So we will be at Black Lake, the destination of the crime, in 12 minutes. We should probably just let everyone know that we have, for the purposes of hiding people's identity, we've slightly modified the name of this hamlet. So we're calling it Black Lake.

We're cruising through beautiful forest land right now. We've got camper vans, people are on holiday. It looks like a really beautiful holiday destination, but we know there is something a little bit more sinister afoot. It just looks like we're about to step foot into potentially like a rom-com situation. But no, we're about to step foot into a horror slash thriller slash porn.

What? Because, well, we can't rule out sexual motive yet. We have to. We have to explore all motives, as we do in the podcast. We don't leave any motives aside because we're scared of them, because we're scared of porn. I just think porn and yours, Mother, shouldn't ever really be in the same context at all.

I'm really hoping this time we can rule out coprophilia. I feel like that's one particular sexual niche that I don't ever want to cross again. Is this going? No, no, no, I'll tell you where it's going. It's going in a direction we don't know yet, Helen. That's why we can't rule out anything. This is episode four of the Case of the Tiny Suitcase, where our Swedish adventure begins. Today we'll be driving through Black Lake and then onto the residence of one of our prime suspects

who we've finally managed to track down, Christina's ex-lover, Mikkel, who was dating her during both crimes and who was working on Class's house when the suitcase arrived. Suspicious. Up until now, Mikkel has failed to comply with the investigation. He has been unresponsive to all of our emails Suspicious. will be showing up at his house with microphones and a clinical forensic psychologist who he thinks is our friend, but who is actually coming to interrogate the shit out of him.

Black Lake, there it is. I see the signs of Black Lake. Black Lake. What a place. Nature. I have no idea if we like this. The beauty is undeniable. Wild pine forests scratching at the sky. I don't think I've ever seen so many trees.

Look! Serene, glistening lakes. Isn't it beautiful, Pia? This really could be the perfect place to live. For me, it feels homey. It's safe. You feel it's safe. It's the kind of place where everyone knows each other. You can go, just knock on the door and get a cup of coffee.

I'm not scared or not worried about living here. We help each other. Foreigners will think it's very beautiful, but perhaps a little bit off. It's not in the centre of the world. The middle of nowhere. A hamlet, Karen forced me to use that word, riddled with suspects. Suspects with a close connection to our victim, either emotionally or genetically. I'm Christina's cousin.

I am a cousin of Christina. We are cousins. And an even closer connection geographically. We are neighbours. We are neighbours. And an even closer connection geographically. And every single one of them with a connection to our victim that spans decades. Same age, exactly the same age. I have known her all her life. We were quite close. We were very close.

I think we are more close now than we've ever been. Slow down. There's no one around, so we can take this very slow. Helen, you're driving at what speed right now? Approximately 16 kilometres an hour. So we're making the creepiest entrance to this. Bear in mind, all the locals here will see if there's a car slowly crawling. They're all watching us now.

I feel it. I feel eyes on us, even though I can't see anyone. I know we're being watched. Can you get your map out, detective? Because I want to know which houses, which suspects' houses we're going past right now. The map of the suspects' houses can be found on our Instagram page

in the episode evidence section at WhoShatOnTheFloorAtMyWedding. Now we're going on to probably, I would say, one of the big two interrogations. And I'm actually feeling pretty nervous about this one, I'm not going to lie. We are basically en route to McKeel's house,

who is an ex-lover of Christina, who was dating Christina at the time both the suit and the suitcase arrived on Christina's doorstep so he's a pretty key suspect as we know Mike Berry always says start with the nearest and dearest speaking of Mike Berry he has just landed or should have just landed in Gothenburg airport we're doing a pincer movement we're traveling down Mike Berry's going to meet us at McKeel's house an hour after we've already gone to speak to him. He has no idea really what we're doing, who we are. We're just three strangers that are turning up at his house

with microphones trying to get a confession. How are we both feeling about this? I'm nervous about it. No, you're not. Well, we're going to this man's house and we're just like, what on earth are we doing? But this is when we thrive, when we step out of our comfort zone. Name, Mikkel, age 54, relationship status, single, currently dating, on and off, nationality Swedish.

Mikkel is Christina's ex-lover. Mikkel is a handyman and lives in Fröl, which is a one-hour, ten-minute drive from Black Lake. and lives in Frol, which is a one-hour, ten-minute drive from Black Lake. They met as Christina hired Michael to install solar panels on her house in August 2009. So that's, what, three months before the first crime? They got together shortly afterwards. Christina describes Mikael as very creative, on the edge of being a nerd, a thrill-seeker. He was always very keen on sailing, and when they were together, he was always tinkering with his boat,

finding new ways to make the boat go faster. Mikel is very independent, stubborn, and set in his ways. He reacts badly to pressure and can make impulsive decisions when pushed. I'm going to be wearing a hidden microphone, first of all, which is kind of hidden-ish. Kind of illegal-ish. He knows it's going to be wearing a hidden microphone first of all which is kind of hidden-ish kind of unbecoming-ish it's he he knows it's going to be recorded but we're going to sort of he doesn't know when go ahead and just beg for mercy later so it's illegal not illegal basically yeah gray area gray area of the law which is the kind of law we like detective lauren keeps on kind of

feeling a bit more relaxed than i am because she feels like I'm, as the producer, in charge of all of the talent and the cast that we're interrogating. So I feel like there's extra pressure on me. What's the pressure? She's got pressure to make Mikael feel relaxed. You've got to make your people relaxed. They like to look at you for starters and then you talk. That's disgusting. What?

You're saying she's eye candy. Well, if I need something doing, I usually push Karen first ahead of me, yeah. For physical look, for her looks? Yeah, totally. Make a, take a, take, but use what you've got. Sorry. And I use Karen when I need. But do you think it works when I'm wearing my hiking shoes?

My size 41 hiking shoes? He's probably looking at your eyes rather than your shoes, I'd say. And I'm wearing shorts today, and I've got very pasty legs at the moment, so it might not be the eye candy he's looking for. Well, to be honest, there's an awful lot going on. He's probably not going to notice the microphone, is he? He also knows that you're in a wife relationship, so he's probably not going to...

If we're using sexuality to get us places here, I'm probably the best person for the job. How do you know he knows I've got a wife? Like, I don't think I've said, my wife, Helen. Only, like, three... So, basically basically why I guess I'm a little bit nervous about this one is that it was very hard to get him to agree to this in the first place so I last week said just to be clear we've got four of us are coming it's going to be Lauren myself Helen and our friend Mike so I've said our friend Mike, he doesn't know there's a clinical forensic psychologist

coming to interrogate him. It's going to be weird when Mike sits down and starts weirdly questioning him. But just going back to the wife thing, because Christina, she told us he likes women. Yeah. And so do we, I don't know, I feel like that's a good way to use our women our womanness

should we take our wedding rings off is that what you're saying I think we should just act because I'm a bit worried he's going to sense that you two are lesbians and therefore you're not really like appropriate eye candy do you think we are instant like read of lesbian I actually think people if they realize you're lesbians, they actually, they don't mind it because then they imagine it's a threesome. Yeah, exactly. That's the way, immediately. Okay, so there are two options for him. He can either get in a threesome with you two or just a single

sex thing with me. Or an orgy I guess, but yeah. But that would involve us having sex with each other. I don't want that. He's not going to have any of it. But yeah, he can think what he likes. Okay, yeah. So don't touch each other. Take off your wedding rings. I'm not taking my wedding ring.

Why would I take off my wedding ring? Because we need to appear available sexually. Just in case. How old is he again? 54? 54. How old are you, Laurie? 36.

How old are you, Ellen? No comment, Your Honour. I'm 46. You're a perfect age, aren't you? Yeah, you're only seven years younger than him. He'll immediately be like, she's the right age for me. So should we introduce ourselves with our name and our age? Just in case.

We are seven minutes away from McKeel's house. So we're going to leave Mike to have a tete-a-tete, a one-on-one man-to-man chat with McKeel. We're going to leave him for half an hour to 45 minutes, so we're going to then burst back into the door. 20 minutes, we'll ask. Wait, what did Mike say? No, 30 minutes.

30 minutes is fine, babe. Yeah. And then we're going to ring the doorbell, and so we're going to interrupt whatever chat they're having, probably at a really key moment, I'd imagine, so we'll have no way of knowing. You'll be saying, I'd... so we'll have no way of knowing you'll be saying I'd and they'll go ding dong because then I say hey how about you let me take your fingerprints and that's that the only reason we are able to take fingerprints or do any forensic

work on this case is thanks to our special forensic coach, who you may remember from Season 1, forensic scientist Jo Millington. I mean, to be honest, I did get quite excited when you said that there's a suitcase, because normally when I deal with suitcases, the body falls out of it, but I noticed that it's not really that exciting at all.

It's just got, like like underpants in it. We spoke to Jo just before we left for Sweden because we had a few critical topics to discuss. Okay, so regarding the laboratory process, considering your kind of like connections in the industry, what do you think you can get for us? We have real evidence this time. A suit, goggles and a suitcase.

And we have suspects whose DNA might exist on that evidence. But we're lacking a few key things which would enable us to process this DNA, such as lab, money and knowledge. How much is DNA analysis? Pretty expensive. I mean, if you're doing a regular crime stain sample, then you're looking at sort of two, three hundred quid a sample. What would the mates rates be for that?

No, that's like mates rates. What? Let's not overlook this very special moment because Jo Millington just called us friends. What about fingerprint testing? Oh, that's sort of cheap as chips, really. Now we're talking. That suitcase is pretty good for fingerprints. It looks like it's got a good surface.

So with the logistics of fingerprints, if we just overtly did that, what do you use? Okay, so we could probably mock up a sheet for you to be able to take everybody's fingerprints. Easy peasy. If I can, I'll get you some kits, like some volunteer kits. I'll do it tomorrow. And she did. Jo sent us forensic kits

for our trip to Sweden. Fingerprint lifting kits, evidence bags, DNA swabs, masks, crime scene outfits and shoe covers, along with a note that said, it will be obvious to you seasoned CSIs, but this stuff is for on your feet, not your head. This is what it feels like to be working on a real crime. You're outsourcing the forensic evidence collection to us. That's how it feels.

That just left one final order of business to discuss. Who would be promoted to head of forensics in our team? You need an exhibits officer. That's somebody that will keep a track of what you're getting because continuity is really important. So, for example, if you're getting all these reference samples from people at the party, you need to be very clear about whose is whose.

We think Helen looks quite legit out of all of us. I think you're probably right about that. I guess the last question I've got for you is I just want to know how your career has been affected from season one, if at all. Well, I don't think, well, I don't think it's had a massively detrimental impact on my career. That's good. Yeah, because I've not really told anyone about it.

In one kilometre, turn left to reach your suspect's house. You will arrive at your destination in five minutes. We've left the really awkward questions right to last in case he kicks off and then throws us out the house. So in order of priority, I think it's Helen casually asking, can I take your fingerprints? And then taking the fingerprints

and then the ink doesn't come off properly, so he'll be annoyed. Even though we've got Joe Millington's forensic wipes. Test those wipes. Do they actually work? No, never tested them before. You should have done really

as the exhibits officer. Anyone should have tested it, yeah. Then we've got the coat hanger assessment. So do you want to talk through what we have to do there? Can we see your coat hanger? Absolutely, yes. I'm really excited about this. This is actually one of my key strategies.

So basically, we all know that the suit was hanging on the veranda, so the suit was hanging on a coat hanger. We know that we have the exact coat hanger that the suit was hanging on. Where? At Christina's. Have you seen it? No. Okay. that we have the exact coat hanger that the suit was hanging on. Where? At Christina's. Have you seen it? No. Okay.

Probably should have. Sarah, how are you going to know what are you going to do? Well, I'll take photos and then I'll assess later. Okay.

I wish I'd checked that though on reflection. And so, and then I think the last thing I just want to check is because if he does feel dodgy at any point throughout this, we have to ask if he's okay to do a lie detector examination at a later date next week.

So we're going to come back and do a lie detector test as well? If we deem it necessary. Oh, and then that point I can have already assessed the coat hangers that Christine isn't just in case and check the coat hangers again. Exactly. So basically I only have permanent access to his wardrobe. Maybe he can just give us a key to his house. Or we just take a coat hanger to go he doesn't need them all. Sorry a coat hanger to go I can't just let that one slide. We could though don't you think? Coat hanger to go don't we have exhibits bags for that exhibit? Yeah actually Jay millington gave us a really big exhibits bag but

i think i used them for our forensic kits i'm pretty sure you used them for our breakfast this morning and they're with the zip and seals it's i know you get confused very easily between a sandwich bag and an evidence bag detective but i don't actually should we have one of those nice little crosshairs then it's four minutes to four four four minutes before we see Mikhil. Right, keep going here and it's number 18, I think, isn't it? What are we doing? What the hell are we doing? T-minus one hour for Mike Berry to arrive. Right, let's go.

Helen! Where are we? Are we in the sports driver? I think so, yeah. I think we're just walking in a small... What are we doing? I don't know, but you're doing it very confidently. Oh, hi. Oh, hi. Hi.

It's Miguel. We were just looking for you. Okay. Can you wait a little bit? I have a little work I want to do. Sure. Yeah. Okay.

No problem. Sure. I don't know if I want to... He's not going to... He didn't look very pleased to see us, did he? No. No. And he also de-prioritized us as soon as we arrived. He's not going to... He didn't look very pleased to see us, did he?

No. No. And he also deprioritised us as soon as we arrived, which is not a good sign. Back to the car. Factless. Thanks. Seriously, factless.

What are we doing here? So we're back in the car. We've just been rejected by our first suspect. Well, I would say this isn't the most successful start we could have hoped for. Should I just stay and wait in the car then? Should I? Maybe only two of us is a good idea, actually. I think three is a bit much, especially with Mike Berry.

I think so. Whatever. It was probably gay get out of it i'm not asking him for that man i'm not asking him for his fingerprints you look wild karen i'm buzzed i'm really uncomfortable i'm i'm really uncomfortable i just i don't know he's just not he's not prepared for what you're going to do i can see him with his headphones on there he just thinks we're popping by for a casual chat and a cup of tea. He doesn't know that we've got a criminal forensic psychologist on the way to see him. Oh God.

I'm actually feeling a little bit like when you get nervous and you feel a bit sick. That's why I just had to take the edge off with a muesli bar. I'm definitely staying in the car then. Helen's out. We've lost, we're one down. I don't, I'm not made for this. I'm gonna have to be like, oh, because I'm probably, I'm the closest connection to him because I'm his ex-partner's son's girlfriend. And you guys are nothing to him, you're dead to him. Oh, oh.

Welcome. Are we going to come? Shall we go inside? Yeah. Okay, why not? Yeah. Thank you. How are you doing today?

Yeah, I'm fine. Yeah? Yeah, good. So do you love about your workspace? Yeah. It's amazing. Very convenient. That's a good commute, isn't workspace? Yeah. That's amazing. Very convenient.

That's a good commute, isn't it? Yeah. I have... This was an old office for my father, but I made a little mini flat for him. So, I'm Lauren, so Christina's son, Joel. Did you meet him? Yeah, I met him. Yeah, I'm his... So we've been together for nine years. Yeah, okay. So I know Christina quite well.

And this is Karen. Who you've been emailing. I've been emailing you too much. And Helen is just waiting in the car. We don't know what she's doing. We've brought you a little bit of red wine. Oh, thank you. And some special Amsterdam cheese.

Oh. Thank you for letting us come into your space, your private space. Now I have only two places to sit, there or here. Perfect. Two places to sit is not a word of a lie. Mikael's flat is his father's old office. It's tiny. There's one section which is maybe six square metres,

which includes his kitchen, and a sitting area which is where we're currently perched. And above that, up a ladder, is his mattress and his wardrobe where his coat hangers are, which look very inviting, but I'm already wondering how I'm going to get to those because I'm going to have to crawl over his bed. Man, you're strange. Why don't you come down and fix a few pipes?

She didn't actually touch it for a long time. Ex-lover Mikel, welcome to your interrogation. Just put that there. No, honestly, thank you so much. This must be one of the strangest things that has happened to you recently, having three strange women appear on your workshop doorstep asking to record you about some weird thing that happened 12 years ago. Many strange things have happened, but this is a little odd. Well, my name is Michael,

and I live in a little village, and I work like a plumber. We are interviewing basically everyone in connection with Christina, especially ex-boyfriends, which you were, I believe. We had half a year or a year where we met. Were you a boyfriend and girlfriend? What?

Boyfriend and girlfriend. Yeah, pretty much. In a relationship? Yeah. How do you actually know Christina? I worked for her. First I did a job with the solar panels, and after that there was some additional work,

and she invited me for dinner or something, and I stayed for the night. And that's how the relationship began? Yeah. So she kind of saw you on the roof and she was like oh he looks nice and then she said why don't you come down and fix a few pipes? I imagine it was a bit like the Pepsi ad where you were working and like sweating and your muscles were glistening in the sun and then you sort of took a swig of Pepsi. Yeah, and Christina's watching from below like, yes, sun glinting from the solar panels onto your face. Was it like that?

Something like that, maybe. Yeah, you would have had your tool belt. It sounds good anyway. Yeah, oily on the hands. Oily hands, like maybe some gloves. Yeah. Sexy gloves. A tool belt.

Anyone with a tool belt. Yeah, you've got it now. You've got a knife attached. Did you just put that on before we arrived? In case? I'm a bit nervous now. Yeah, I'm worried you're going to stab us. Please don't.

Okay, so that's how you met Christina. That's how the relationship, the love, began. Yeah. Are you quite active? What kind of hobbies do you have usually? My hobbies? Driving motorcycle, sailing, skiing. You're quite a James Bond. I'm imagining with your tool belt, skiing down. Yeah, skiing down with the tools. One ski on. Get your knife out to stab an animal if

you need it for dinner. Yeah, I see what picture you're painting here. And do you know why we're here today? Didn't it start with a little mini costume? What do you call it? A suit. Suit. Suit. A three-piece suit. It just hang on the hallway for some months and she didn't actually touch it for a long time.

Because it just was there when she come home after work some day. Mikael starts to look a little bit shifty. But it's unclear whether that's because he's guilty or because he's just feeling a little bit uneasy about us flirting with him. She called me and sounds very strange and I started to wonder what is it? And then she asked me, is it you who put the little suit on the hallway? What? I think I was the main suspect for quite a long while, but, well, it wasn't me. It wasn't? No. Okay.

Who did you originally think it was? Who was the first person you thought could have done this? I thought it was her cousin, or maybe she told me about some man who was attracted to her, and maybe it was that person who had put it there. A cousin was attracted to her? No, I think it was somebody else. If you wanted to try and romance someone, would you ever think to leave a tiny suit, a Manchester fabric? No.

It wouldn't be your romantic strategy? No. Why not? Maybe it's somebody who is jealous or want some kind of spooky revenge or something. Which cousin did you suspect? The one

live down in the valley. Claas? Yeah, I think it was Claas. You also installed solar panels on someone else's property. Wasn't that Claas? So you would have spent two days with Claas as well? Yeah. What was your initial impression of Claas? Why do you think he could have done it? To be honest, I don't remember so much about Klaas.

We continued to apply a bit of pressure on cousin Klaas. But Mikael really had nothing to say about him, and he seemed genuine. Were you together with Christina when both items were left on the veranda? You were with the suit because she called you. You have to be aware that the relationship didn't end one date. I can't say it was after or for or something. I'm pretty sure you were around for both crimes. You were together for both crimes.

Yeah, I think so. I think so too. But you think you were only together for six months to a year, a year maximum. Yeah. Yeah, that is what I remember.

The suit was left on the doorstep in December 2009 and then the suitcase was left on the doorstep in December 2009. And then the suitcase was left on the doorstep of April 2011. Oh, two years? Yeah. A year and a half. So that means your relationship was... It was a little bit longer.

A little bit longer. I mean, it's about the same. Time flies when you're having fun, though. But you do realise that that makes you quite a strong suspect because you're emotionally connected to Christina at the time that both items were dropped. And then once you broke up, nothing else was left on her doorstep since.

How do you think that makes you look? Okay, I couldn't just do that and wait for this long time. I'm very impatient. If I do some jokes with people, I can't barely keep myself cool. So you didn't leave the small navy corduroy suit on Christina's veranda? No, of course not. What about the suitcase? None of these two.

Okay. No. Do you know what? I'm looking at Michael right now. I'm looking into his eyes. I'm boring into his very soul. And this looks, to be honest, like a man who is innocent. What do you think?

Let's just... I don't see the same eyes. But I think you are telling us the truth because you don't have anything to gain. You wouldn't lie to us, would you? If I should lie to you? Yeah. No, why should I? Exactly. Because we know where you live now and where you sleep. So if we find out that you've been lying. Do you want to see any hangers as well? Oh yeah, should we do that now? Yeah, do you mind if I just have a look at your coat hangers? Yeah, in that case we have

to crawl up. Can I go up there? Is that okay? I'll just take some photos. Hold on, take this one. Just going up to the coat hanger space. Yeah, perfect. Thank you. I've got Yeah, perfect. Thank you.

I've got to take a picture of you. You're ridiculous. You're so ridiculous, Lauren. What are you doing? Just to paint the picture of what's actually happening here, Lauren just physically crawled over Michiel's bed in order to access a small clothing rail in the corner of the bedsit and started rifling through this poor man's coat hangers socks and underwear i know i go a step too far sometimes but this is excruciating for

even me to watch you can find a delightful image of this moment on our instagram page at who shat on the floor at my wedding you've got a lot of different types of coatings this is detective lauren kilby's only idea of how to solve this case, Michael. She thinks if she can find a hanger that looks similar to the one... OK. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I got the point. Well, I have... What's that doing there? Are you trying to hide coat hangers from me?

What's that doing over there? Oh, there's multiple other ones. Shit. What's that doing over there? Oh there's multiple other ones. Shit. Mikel suspiciously had loose coat hangers scattered around his house. I dug out each and every one of them and took a photo. If we find a match with the coat hanger that the suit was hanging on, we'll be returning to his house to arrest him.

Have we got any other questions? No. I was just wondering, so we've got, you know I said we've got our other friend mike that is um coming over as well um we're wondering if it's possible for him to have a half an hour to just ask you a few more questions and then we will leave you in peace mike is um he's helping us with our podcast um he's called a forensic psychologist and he helps to just um eliminate um suspects so we we can oh no he's i think he should be here now actually um so i think let me just check so we've actually we're trying to um check fingerprints on the inside of the suitcase um and we're wondering

if there's any chance we can take your fingerprints. Yeah, yeah. So if I could start with your right thumb and just not go too hard and then roll it around, yeah, and then place it right in this box. There we go. Get that off. Does it work? It doesn't work, the wet wipes.

It does work. It's still on his fingers. We waited too long to use Joe Millington's wet wipes on the ink, leaving our suspect with permanent stains on his fingers. This is so official. Oh, I think Mike's here. Hello. He has arrived. Brilliant. So I'm just going to get Mike.

Right. There are some quite steep steps here. So when you come down, I went down these like a ladder. I wasn't joking when I asked about your insurance scheme. Sorry, I'll maybe... Hi. Hello, you must be Michael. Michael. I'm Michael. You're both Michael.

Yeah, two Michaels. So if you want to take a seat here, Mike. Here's the water for you. Oh, lovely, yes. Thanks. The meeting of two Michaels. Yeah, Michael squared. There's that. There's that.

There's this. I look nice and professional. Yeah. Right, so we'll leave you to it. This is all... Just have a little chat. No pressure. Do what you do best.

We'll come back in half an hour, right? Oh, the faces of both of you. My God. I've never done this i just can't this is the strangest thing i go on okay that was first of all um can i just say why i needed to go to the bathroom is as i was going up the steep ladder i realized the hidden microphone unhooked from my pants and started dangling down my shorts dangling down my shorts so iling down my shorts. So I had to like wedge the Taz Cam like backwards in reverse up and tuck it into my pants and then... Your undies? My undies. It was a really bad moment. I think that is the least of our worries right now. We've just let Mike Berry loose into Mikkel's after he was so good to us. Well, first of all, can I apologise? For what?

This lot. They got me involved because I foolishly said yes when they did a previous podcast. And they dragged me into this. I'm Professor Mike Berry. I'm a clinical forensic psychologist, I do work with the police and security services and with lots of different people, I'm an expert witness and they've asked me to interview you. Now they are so amateurish it's painful, right. First of all they think oh we'll have a list of suspects and you're one of the

suspects for this deadly crime or if it exists even i don't even know if it did exist um what i do and what what the police would do here in in sweden is what we call tie which is trace interview and eliminate so they traced you as a suspect, interview you, and then the aim is to eliminate you from the suspect list. And then you go on your merry way, and I go my way. If you can't eliminate them, then you become a serious suspect. I'm fucking stressed. Is Michael all right?

I think he was okay. He was fine. I had to keep him sweet talking about the boats, and I was like, just keep talking about boats and stuff. Well, no, he was okay. He was fine. I had to like really like, I had to keep him sweet talking about the boats and I was like, just keep talking about boats and stuff. Well, no, he was a really lovely guy, but then he was a bit like, where's Mike?

And I was like, I just wonder if he was a little bit surprised when we said who Mike was, that he's a criminal forensic psychologist. I think he was a bit like, we didn't give him a lot of time to respond to that, which is I think for the best. Cause I think, I had to do it at that stage though. Cause I was like, we're running out of time to respond to that which is i think for the best because i think i had to do it

at that stage there because i was like we're running out of time and i was like he technically could arrive any minute so i was like and so he was like what the heck we didn't say what the heck he was just like then he was quite like kind of taken aback you know these two these events that happened, the suitcase one and the clothes, why do these crazy, and I say crazy women think that you've done it? Well, probably because I was dating Kristina at that time and she couldn't find any other person who did it I think it was quite naturally

to suspect me I think they've misinterpreted when I said originally in any crime you always look at the nearest and dearest first husbands, wives, ex-lovers, what have you and then you move out to complete strangers

and I think what they've done is taken that literally oh we'll have a look at everyone and say blame them when what they say is you start closer than work out but I think they've just kind of jumped on the idea oh you're nearest and de out so but i think they just kind of jumped on the idea oh you're nearest and dearest so we'll accuse you so i do apologize for that never mind it's okay who do you think did it um i can't say can't say i won't say i don't know you don't know. You don't know so much? Because I know Christina, I know, I think it's her cousin Klaas. And that's the only people I have met up there. Her friends, I don't know them.

So because of that, I can't have any clue about who did it. Would you have liked to have done it? What. Would you have liked to have done it? What? Would you have liked to have done it? Yeah, actually. I like the idea of putting a strange object, just put it there and see what happens. It would have amused me.

Why? Is this funny? Yeah. Suddenly it's a strange object outside of your veranda. Of course, like it has been right now, people talk and they try to figure out who did it it would be a pleasure to be the person who have put it there and hear all the gossip and

stories and all the people blaming other people and things like that and you were sitting there knowing you've done it I've dealt with killers who've done that who've killed and sat and watched and things like that, and you were sitting there knowing you had done it. I've dealt with killers who've done that, who've killed and sat and watched other people thinking that they've done it. So you didn't do it, you reckon?

No. No, no. So why should I believe you? I don't know. I think we probably should send a therapist his way. I mean, nobody knows what's going to happen as soon as you guys get in touch. If you called me, I would just put the phone down. First of all, you wouldn't have fit in there. Like, it was so tiny.

It's like not even a room. It's our roof terrace. Right. His whole house is. Yes. He sleeps on like this elevated thing just in the lounge. Right. It's basically like a camper van, a really big camper van. Yeah.

So Mike Berry will just be like quite, I think, stressed when he sees the size of that place. But I guess it's similar to a jail cell in size. Have you heard any of their work? Their work? Yes. No. No. All right. It's quite amusing. any of their work. Their work? Yes, every part. No, never. No, never. No, alright.

It's quite amusing. They're very, very amateur detectives. I mean, they break every rule in the book. But it's quite amusing listening to them, you know, the three of them just laughing their heads off, trying to be detectives. They don't realise that it's a lot harder than that. I think it's a good thing. I think it's a good thing.

I think it's a good thing. I think it's a good thing. I think it's a good thing. I think it's a good thing. I think it's a good thing. I think it's a good thing. I think it's a good thing. I think it's a good thing.

I think it's a good thing. I think it's a good thing. I think it's a good thing. I think it's a good thing. I think it's a good thing. I think detectives. They don't realise that it's a lot harder than that. But they now think you're innocent. They think? Mm. Having put you down as a suspect, they've now, just a few minutes ago, we talked about it,

and they said, oh, they don't think you've done it. So I asked them, how do you make that decision? And they come back, he's a nice man. He's a nice man. He almost, if not quite, but he looks innocent, you know. Unfortunately, more cynical people like me don't fall for that one, you know. We're a bit more cynical but you're saying you haven't done it i can't see lots of reasons why you could you you didn't break

up with christine in in a bad way from what you said um you don't live near her it's what got a driver half an hour drive to house yeah i think it's um 70 80 minutes all right so it's a long drive why would you go all that way to put some clothes why would you that's the distance would have been a good thing. It would have served the purpose. Because, like you said, few people may suspect that I have gone that long travel. If I wanted to make that kind of fun, it would be perfect to live long way. Because I'm used to drive long, so it's no big deal for me to drive to that place, put a suit on the veranda and go home and see what happens. Right. Because most people say, oh, I live a long way and therefore I wouldn't have done it or couldn't have done it.

This part was one of Mike Berry's only flags when we spoke to him in the car after the interrogation. He said... So I wasn't sure whether he was double bluffing or what. This part was one of Mike Berry's only flags when we spoke to him in the car after the interrogation. He said... So I wasn't sure whether he was double bluffing or what. Right. Now, they were going to use brutal force on you, and I thought, well, that won't work. Or pull your fingernails out. They got all very excited about techniques and i said you can't do that you've got to sit down talk to the man and ask him a few questions and he'll tell you whether

he's done it or not and you keep asking him and then he eventually gets fed up and says i haven't done it or i have done it and you're saying you haven't done it no okay fine yeah are you going to No. No? Okay, fine. Are you going to go up to Christina as well? Yes, I'm going to spend some time cross-examining her tomorrow. I've come in with a forensic mind looking at every possibility which could be from her setting it up, or it can be quite sinister somebody could be doing it to

Punisher or stalker or something like that there's lots of possible motives for doing this when you said that I started to think a little bit myself and if I would suspect somebody I should think of some of her children or maybe ex-husband. Mikael is referring to Christina's ex-husband Lars, the man who found the tiny cow stool on his veranda. We'll be coming back to Lars in a minute. Sorry to interrupt, I just wanted to check, are you still OK? Oh yeah, you've got a meeting or something?

I just wanted to check. I think we're more or less finished. OK. I'm just going to check, are you still okay? Oh yeah, you've got a meeting or something. I just wanted to check. I think we're more or less finished. Okay. I'm just going to stop this. Well, the first time I've been to Sweden, and it's a strange place. It is. Strange people, you know.

But overall, I thought he was probably genuine. Yeah. Such a bizarre way of meeting you, first time, face to face, in the middle of nowhere, in a small bedsit above the workshop, amongst a very chonky little ladder that we had to climb up, and there was hardly any space. It was a disaster, wasn't it? Yeah. Yes.

What have you lot put me through? I'm so sorry. But as I say, I think this is like the lowest moment. And I feel like every day it's going to get slightly better. We drove to the hotel and immediately jumped on a call with ex-husband Lars. Because we needed answers. Lars, who do you think left that tiny weird cow stool on your veranda? My sister's ex-man used to do such a thing.

Lars, his sister's ex-husband. What's your sister's partner's name? Shell. New suspect Shell. Write that down. I have here. Why did you think it was Shell? He used to do something like that to people who moved around.

So he had a little bit of a fetish for leaving things on people's doorsteps. Yes. He has never admitted that it was him oh okay so you confronted him yes and you asked him if it was him who left it there and he denied it yes but but when i am talk to him with about a little chair he was smiling so in opinion, he acted quite guilty? Yes. When did that cow stool actually appear? What year roughly? 2009. Is there any way that we could find out which month? Because the reason I'm asking is it would be very interesting if we would find out that the cow thing was left on your doorstep in December 2009.

Well not in December in the summer. Okay the summer so effectively the cow was left in summer and then come winter the suit was left and then we've obviously got a year and a half before the suitcase. You separated from Christina in 2008. Yes. What do you think his motivation would have been to put that in front of Christina's house and your house? Practical you. It's a bit out of the blue don't you think? You weren't really close, you weren't friends like Christina I imagine would be even further apart from him like it's a big commitment to go over to Christina's house and leave something. Do you think he would still find, he would just find that funny, or?

Yes. But, I mean, he's split up with your sister at this point, and you'd split up with Christina. So, yeah, the connection is, like, it's double removed. Lars is just not gauging how serious this is. There could be a reverse theft artist out there on the loose, planting tiny items on people's private verandas. Why is he refusing to accept that a man who used to be in his and his sister's lives

could be behind this? And that it might just be more than a joke. It might be something much more sinister. Who is Christina's suspect? I can't discuss the details of the case with you, Lars. Okay, of course. I've watched a few movies where the police don't reveal things like that, so I'm just going to follow the same process.

Thank you so much Lars. Sleep well. Bye. Bye bye. Have a nice day. What happens next is a dream come true for every single detective around the world whether you're real or fake. If you've watched The Jinx, you'll be aware of what's about to happen. Lars forgot to end the call on his browser. So I listened in and recorded it. And obviously I do not speak Swedish, so I had to bring in the translator who I live with to listen in to his dad and partner's private conversation hoping he wouldn't hear anything

that would traumatise him for life. A little, little suit made of corduroy was found on Christina's veranda. And was found on Christina's veranda. And... Lauren and her friend are working on a new podcast. So... So...

I was doing fine in the beginning, but then they thought I was changing my story, so I'm still a suspect. Have you eaten already? I ate a giant sandwich. I was thinking about making some chicken, but I'll have a sandwich instead. Coming up next, on the case of the tiny suitcase. How have we ended up like this? Don't question it, just go with it. If someone was threatening Christina's life by that tiny little suit.

Oh, there's blood in it. No way, who is it? Just go over there, yeah. If someone was threatening Christina's life by that tiny little suit... Oh, there's blood in it! No way, Jose. Who knows what's happening later in the evening? When my parents all go to sleep. And I'm assuming he's dead. So we might have to apply for a... To exhume him.

Exhume his remains, yeah. Oh, God! I have a sneaking suspicion that you were more involved than he'd been letting on. I just don't know why he would do it.