WHOA That's Good Podcast - How to Heal After Burnout | Sadie Robertson Huff & TAYA

Episode Date: October 16, 2024

TAYA Gaukrodger's life has changed a lot since the last time she joined Sadie - she's given birth to a beautiful boy, she and her family are now living in the United States, and she's learned a lot about how to process church hurt in an emotionally and spiritually healthy way. TAYA speaks about her unique experience when you are a public representative — even the face of — a church that is going through a difficult time and how, despite the frustration and hurt, she still loves the global Church and is excited to serve in and alongside her new church community. Then Sadie and TAYA discuss times when they've felt burned out and why it's not just "being busy" — and what they both did to heal and be restored. TAYA's single "Come Into the Light" is available everywhere you listen or purchase music now!  This Episode of WHOA That's Good is Sponsored by: https://helixsleep.com/sadie — Get 20% off all mattress orders today! https://drinkag1.com/whoa — Get a FREE bottle of Vitamin D3K2 and TEN free AG1 Travel Packs with your first purchase ! https://everylife.com — Get 10% off your first order when you use promo code WHOA at checkout! - Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

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That's helixsleep.com slash Sadie. Oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, What's up everybody? Happy Wednesday. I hope you're having a great week, but per usual, it's about to get so much better because we have one of your favorite guests, my favorite guests back on the Well That's Go podcast. We have the one and only Taya back in the house. Taya, welcome back, friend. Hi, gal.

It's so nice to see you. And oh my gosh, it just, it feels really sweet to get to be back here with you. I can't believe that it was three years ago that I got to be on the Woe That's Good podcast. And it's fun because we're actually real life friends. And I feel like so much life has happened in between. So like, yes, we get a conversation with, you know, besties.

So I love it so much. I know we love you guys so much and y'all getting to be here for conference and then stay a little bit longer was just so good for all of us. I feel like and seeing our kids now get to hang out and become little friends like, oh, it's just so good for all of us, I feel like, and seeing our kids now get to hang out and become little friends. Like, oh, it's just so sweet. I love it so much. So I love that you, before we got on,

brought up your OG best piece of advice you've ever been given, which, by the way, people still quote that. When you said it to me today, I was like, I still remember that because it still comes up. People still talk about when you were on and that piece of advice. So before you say your new piece of advice, take us back and remind us of your first, well, that's good moment.

Yes. So, uh, it's so challenging to go, okay, what is like the best piece of advice? Cause I'm like, oh gosh, like there's so many things you could say. Um, and I specifically didn't want to be that person was like, I'm still living by the same advice and here it is, which I technically am, oh gosh, there's so many things you could say. And I specifically didn't want to be that person who was like, I'm still living by the same advice and here it is, which I technically am. But I was like, you know, God is the God of the new song. And so I'm like, sure, there's going to be some new wisdom. But I went back to check it and I thought I was going to say,

you're an unrepeatable miracle. And I know that was the heading of the heading of the podcast episode that we did. And I still stand by that. It was that little tub that was at the back of my bedroom growing up. And I think it was something that God really used to encourage me through my mom, because she was the one that stuck it there. That comparison is going to be the greatest stealer of joy

and you're always going to be the second best version of somebody else. So be the unrepeatable miracle that you are. You know, there's no one else in the world like you and I thought that was going to be the advice but when I went right back to the start of the episode, it was all about being planted in the house of God and that if you just make a decision whether it's going to be this church or that church, but pick one and get alongside the vision of the house and be planted. And it's similar to, I think you were then encouraging people around someone, you know, those who are planted in the house of God will flourish and their lives will be like a tree planted by, you know, a running river

and that their lives would flourish and that they would always have fruit, you know, by the grace of God in every month. And so it's kind of crazy when I looked back at that moment of the greatest advice that I've ever been given, I was also remembering that room that I was in and that was three years ago and so much of my life has changed since then. Ben and I no longer live in Australia.

We are now part of a different community and building relationships in a new city, in a new country. And even the fact that a record has come out and I have given birth to a baby, which is a whole other kind of thing, because an album can feel like a baby. And, we're currently in a season of trying to learn how to birth this second record. And it's been different because there's been a whole bunch of different demands and I think even strains in this new season as a family

and learning how to do ministry together. And so it's funny that what I felt in my heart when I was asking God, like what would be the greatest piece of advice that you would want me to share in that moment? And I just think it's the kindness of God that is still about the church, but perhaps it's some advice that I've heard recently

that kind of like stopped me in my tracks. In the midst of maybe experiencing some, maybe some of the other side of the coin, if you will, for being a part of a church community. And churches made up of people were very imperfect people. And so if you are around a church community for long enough, people will disappoint you and people may hurt you. But one of my friends, Mama Rita Spring, she was recently talking about some of the things

that she had been going through and I was kind of talking to her and crying, and just going, oh, like there's so much happening within our church community context. And she said that she felt she was just kind of laying things out before the Lord. And He's the God who sees it all anyway, so He knows it all, but He's letting it just say it. And then, I think there was some frustration, and I definitely have had that as well, when, you know, in conversation about certain things going on in certain contexts, you know, in the church before the Lord.

And then, she said she felt like the Holy Spirit said, just remember, every time you say something against the church, you're saying it against yourself. Because you are the church and you are a part of the church. Wow. And I know we're just diving straight in. That's good. Which was kind of, you know, it puts it into perspective.

I think even, you know, learning to walk in surrender and bring everything before God, which I'm sure we're going to talk about because it's basically what this next single that I get to release is all about. And if we're going to be honest, we're bringing it before God, but how crazy that the church is what God is coming back for. Jesus is coming back for the bride. And so, even if I've experienced some crazy stories and certain things going in a church context, I want to be found in the church because that's what Jesus is coming back for. And I need to remember to speak about her in a way that, you know, the bridegroom would be pumped to hear about her. And to know that if I'm saying something against the church in perhaps a negative context,

I'm actually saying it about myself because I'm the church as well. And so, I think it's, yeah, and maybe it's telling of maybe some of the things that we've walked through as a family and as individuals in this last little season of just making sure that I'm not speaking ill of the bride that Jesus died for and that He loves and making sure that it's edifying in the right way. And that's not to say you can't speak the truth. But I think just making sure that I'm actually remembering that if I say something negative about the church, I'm actually saying it about myself. Yeah, and I think, yeah. No, that's so good. Viewing the bride like Jesus. That is so good and so deep.

Like, I have so many questions that I almost wish I was like on the phone with you right now and not on a podcast. Because I'm like, can we talk this out? Because this is so good and so many thoughts that I've had myself have been challenged by. I'll ask you a question, because you said it's important to share. It's important to tell the truth, but also in telling the truth, how do you also still honor and protect your words without... It's almost like the difference of like, processing something and getting to the truth

and then like deconstructing something. Cause there's so much like deconstruction, there's so many people like walking away because they're hurt. But then there's also like just actual hurt that you do have to deal with in order to continue to show up in a healthy way. So I guess in like a messy kind of question,

what does that balance look like for you on like not ignoring the unhealth and the brokenness and the pain, dealing with it in an honest way without like all of that deconstruction, walk away, bitterness, like how have you found that? How have you found those conversations going in your own life? Yeah, I mean, if you say it's a messy question,

I'm like, I'm probably gonna give a messy answer. Cause I think it's, I'm sure this is gonna be something, I'm always learning, gosh something I'm always learning. Gosh, I'm always learning. And I just want to say from the get-go, I do not have it all together. I am not perfect, and I'm just trying to figure out how to follow Jesus

in a fallen world, and with as much of my hands up and surrendered and open and willing for Him to do whatever he thinks is best and with the best of my ability to not resist it because I feel like sometimes I do that as well. But I think it's so important who you talk to because I think it could be so easy to grab a group of people who have been hurt perhaps in the same context and just continue to speak about what's going on and what has gone on.

And it's basically like trauma bonding over the bad thing that's happened, maybe with no purpose to want to move forward or perhaps find a way where we bring it into the light and ask God. Because I think that is definitely like a massive key thing, you know, when some things started to come out within like, you know, church contexts and it's so broad because it's, it's relationships and it's people. And there's also the greater responsibility of,

I was the face of the church that imploded and all, all that that brought. And then you feel the responsibility of people that you, that you were or are leading. And I definitely, yeah, I think trying to listen to the Holy Spirit is like prompting and wise counsel and people that are older and people that have perhaps gone through maybe similar things or you've watched how they've walked with integrity and honor. And, and I don't think it's like a, I remember speaking to a kind friend who

was kind of just watching me and all of this and she's like, you know, sometimes honor is not opening your mouth, which I'd never really thought about honor. Cause in that context, as in, you know, usually we say it because honor is where we openly, publicly say something that's, you know, good and we uplift and sometimes showing honor is maybe keeping your mouth closed and not saying something as like, and I guess maybe for me personally, it's like probing to the wild, when I open my mouth in a particular context, like am I trying to just shock or say like a crazy experience

to be like, whoa, that's crazy or this is really bad. And I also have fear of the Lord, as in, you know, it says in the Bible that every side word and every outer word that comes out of our mouth, we will give full account for. And I think I just have this picture of, you know, getting to be in heaven one day and with no one else beside me, to then, you know, I'm not going to be able to say, well, I said that because I was with this person and then they said this. It's like, no, I'm going to be standing beside Jesus by myself giving full account for every

idle word. And, you know, for however many years I get, that is a lot of idle words and a lot of side words and a lot of, and I have enough of my own where I'm like, I can tell you, you do not have any like, bandwidth left to judge anybody else. Because with the same judgment that you judge other people, it will be done back to you by the Lord. And so I'm just like, oh, gosh, I'm just fully aware of my shortcomings. I'm like, yeah. Which again, it's still like, I need to shut my mouth.

That's so good, because it goes back to the original thing of what you said. It's like, if I say something in the church, then I'm speaking of myself too, because I'm right there with it. I'm human. You have those same tendencies because we all do. It's the flesh. But it's like, yeah, God loves us. If you've ever read the book, have you read the book Imagine Heaven?

Oh, it is incredible. It is such a cool book. It's a book about like hundreds of people's near death experience. And they all share like what they saw, what they experienced in these like this short moment of like literally dying and then coming back to life through like medical, through like medical miracles

or like the Lord, I guess, just not taking them in that moment. But it's like crazy stories. But anyways, a lot of people talk about having that moment with like they felt the presence of Jesus come and then like they saw like their whole life, like it was like everything. But what's so cool is they all expressed feeling and overwhelming sense of love the whole time and not shame. Oh, wow. And again, like, I don't know if you believe this or not, like that's up to you to believe that these things are true. But what is really cool is if you read the book, they have people

from all different cultures, all different backgrounds, all different, like, it's so crazy. But in all different accounts, so not all of them are aligned, but the person writing it is a believer, and so they're talking a lot about heaven, this is imagined heaven, and he anchors it with so many biblical scriptures about heaven that it's crazy to see that, like, maybe you didn't think of it like that, but it's like, man, that's so crazy that this person experienced that and it's exactly what the Bible said. But I just thought about that because it is so crazy. Even though you are going to feel an amazing sense of love and stuff, even that's just overwhelming grace and mercy and love.

That's just wild. That's the crazy all in wonder that He's coming after the church as a bride. Like, as messy as we are, as broken as we are, He's like still loves us so much that He's coming back for us. Like, that's the most beautiful thing. And I remember when Christian and I were engaged, just thinking about that a lot more, that concept and just those verses and being like, that is wild. Because even in marriage, like it's a small picture of that concept and just those verses and being like, that is wild because even in marriage, like it's a small picture of that,

but you know how broken you are. Like, and they do too, you know, by that point. And then you're like, you know, you know, you know, I'm kind of crazy sometimes, like, you know all that. And yet like, you still love me so much. And like, you're like, it's just such a beautiful picture, but even more so in the fullness of like God doing that for the church. So everything you're saying, it's just, um, man, there's so many places I could go right

now with all of this, but I want to focus on even just that fear of the Lord aspect because someone asked, um, how do you not? I actually got a lot of questions from Instagram and we're about to get into the song and everything, because I have so many questions about the lyrics. That song is so powerful. Come into the light, which by the way, by the time this podcast is out, it will have come out last week. So everyone, if you haven't listened, go listen.

But people, someone asked, how do you not get burnt out as a worship leader? And I feel like, I just want to touch on that before we pass this moment, because I think a lot of people get burnt out in the church when they see the messiness of the church. It's like you see all that, and then maybe you feel like, oh, I know too much, or that happened, or this happened, and then all of a sudden you've experienced this burnout in the church. And I feel like everyone probably has experienced a touch of that.

I feel like Christian and I, we have to guard our hearts against that, like becoming callous, becoming far out, and all those different things. Not that there's so many bad people in the church, but again, it's messy. It's people. It's broken. Because I feel like the fear of the Lord helps you not burn out, because it's not necessarily about this. It's not that as a job. It's that as a responsibility. It's that because I love the Lord helps you not burn out. Cause it's not necessarily about this. It's not that as a job, it's that as a responsibility. It's that because I love the Lord,

I'm doing this because I feel called because I have a responsibility, not just because like I have to, or because that's my title. But when you said the fear of the Lord, I just wanted to go ahead and bring up that question, but how do you feel like you have not gotten burnt out as a worship leader and have you had seasons

where you felt that way? Yeah, oh my gosh. I mean, great question and I feel like there's so many ways, you know, I'd want to like touch on it because... Yo, I'm all about products that make life easier and healthier. That's one of my favorite things about drinking AG1. I've been talking about AG1 for a long time, but for a limited time, I have a special offer for you that is a $67 value. AG1 contains prebiotics, probiotics, and other gut-supporting ingredients to aid in digestive comfort, reduce bloating, and keep you regular, if you know what I mean.

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If you go to drinkag1.com slash woe today and check it out. For 10 years getting to travel with Hillsong United as a worship leader and we go all around the world and we have a full, I guess just to humanize and normalize that we're all humans and no one gets to forgo having an intimate personal relationship with Jesus because if you do, it's very obvious and you're not leaning into the grace and it doesn't feel apparent because you're not spending time in the presence of God.

And it is there and it's sufficient, but it's definitely different when you feel like you're not spending time in the presence of God. And it is there and it's sufficient, but it's definitely different when you feel like you're constantly filling up as you're pouring out. And travel with United for those 10 years and go on different tours and countries and a whole bunch of things. And what maybe not a lot of people knew is whenever we were coming back to Sydney, we were serving on the weekend and we were sitting in church

and we were rusted to do so. And the campus that I was at, you had like a Saturday night service. And then we had three services in the morning. And one of them was at 8 a.m. And that was, you know, hilarious and fun to lead at the same time. And then you have two services that night. And that's just the city campus. That wasn't the other campuses. And so there was a lot of responsibility.

And I definitely think there was a lot of things that could have changed to bring maybe a bit of a better balance once you've been away from family for three weeks. Perhaps it's probably good just to sit into church with each other on that Sunday before you're jumping in and serving again. But I'm actually so also grateful on the other hand as well, because I think it kept us grounded. Yeah. And it kept us tied to what Jesus loves, which is the church. And I don't think you can really write and lead if you're not actually knowing the people that you're writing and leading.

And I think there's only one way to do that, which is not in isolation, but to be planted and to be service. I would want to encourage that person who is, you know, worship leading and serving their context. It'll make me emotional because you're loving the thing that Jesus is coming back for and you're loving and learning to love. I think that's the constant thing of, you know, I say this always like a tender heart because all of a sudden my husband and I felt like God said,

my hand is no longer on you guys to be part of this church context. And so for a couple of months in this last season, Ben and I were trying to find a church home and we felt like we stepped out in obedience to what God had placed in our hearts. And we were like, oh, we feel a bit homeless and we feel like we don't have the covering that we would normally have. And it feels tender because we have now found a church home in Orange County, California. We're really looking forward to getting to be back with them because we've been traveling

for five months currently living out of suitcases. And it feels tender because I can't wait to come alongside in some way to be a part of the worship team there and a part of the community and to not just sit and receive but to pour out. Because when we sit and we receive and say, for like, that's it, I can't serve anymore, I can't be a part of this. If I'm just drinking water, like it's not going out anywhere, it's going to become stagnant, it's going to become bitter, it's going to become a bit, oh, a bit gross and it's not going out anywhere. It's going to become stagnant. It's going to become bitter. It's going to become a bit, oh, a bit gross.

And there's going to be things growing in there that wouldn't only be growing in there if the water was continually going through. And so I do think there's something key to being a part of a local church crew and serving. And so I just want to say I love that and uphold that. And I think we can't get away from a personal relationship with Jesus because when you place your life before Him and you say, I don't want to surrender to the way that you would have me live. And that's basically putting your life under the microscope of God and allowing Him to see every little area. Iron sharpens iron.

And it's a great reflector and it's a great, you know, to live in community is a wonderful way to have things revealed to, you know, who you are and perhaps things that, you know, we need to let the Lord deal with. And I think, yeah, I mean, a major thing would be is just keeping the main thing the main thing and why we do what we do.

And I think in those contexts, I have to just, whether it's in front of 20 people, whether it's in front of 100 people, whether it's in front of an arena, whether it's, it doesn't matter. It still carries the same weight the entire time. And I think what helps me to not get burnout is to make sure that I am bringing my whole life before God and having those personal encounter moments, those personal moments in the presence of God away from people before I even get to step foot on a platform. And I think if we're talking in the context for this question, with things going on within a church and you're unsure about

things and maybe it's certain things happening that have left a bit of that burnt outness or you smell a bit of smoke and you're like, oh, I think I'm pushing a little too hard. I would encourage you to ask the Holy Spirit who should I turn to be able to talk about this in a safe context? Because, yeah, usually they're like little things, like something's not right. And whether it's in the context or whether that's in my heart or I'm looking at things in a wrong way or maybe a different perspective that maybe God would have me look at it. And I totally also agree, there are seasons of rest and there are seasons where you need to pull back, but it's never to remain in isolation. It's never to not be serving.

You know, Jesus always had those moments of going to the mountainside to pray and to have times of intimate communion with His Heavenly Father. But it was always to come back. He was always then coming back to community and being community. So, I think it's just learning how to be in the wrestle with God and bring everything before Him. And the right people. I think we, yeah. And with the Holy Spirit, like you ask Him, you know, we have so much access to God, we

settle for so little, but we could ask Him in inquirer and say, who are the people that I can look to in this and go, how can I do this? And I totally get it as well. Like I just want to say, again, I'm in a season of my husband and I would travel in five months living out of suitcases and we didn't put any margin in for writing a record and yet here we are doing that as well. And so there's so many things that we'll do so differently next time and we won't do it exactly the same. And just learning to not just like survive, but like, okay, God, what do we need to take away from this season to

make sure that we don't become burnt out and just surviving, like, you know, scraping through, we want to flourish and we want to be doing the thing, and have enough capacity and margin for the thing that you have asked us to do, so. That's so good to hear. Hope that was. Oh, that's so good. Everything you're saying, I'm like, yeah, been there. Fam, let's talk about the change in seasons for a minute.

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But a lot of times, being over busy, it makes you tired and it makes you go, okay, I need rest. But it doesn't necessarily like burn you out in the sense of like, oh, I quit. I don't want to do this. Like there's a difference in being like busy and being burnt out because I would say right now, our life is busy, but yeah, I have such a joy in it,

an excitement for it, a peace in it. I remember one time I was skiing, snow skiing. I was like, and I'm not like the best skier ever. So when I say I was going really fast, there's not, I'm not saying I was like going really fast cause I'm that good. Really fast could mean a lot of different variations, but I was going fast for me, okay?

So I'm like flying down this mountain relatively. I'm flying down this mountain. And I just remembered, I was like, I heard the Lord whispered to me, okay? So I'm like flying down this mountain relatively. I'm flying down this mountain. And I just remembered, I was like, I heard the Lord whisper to me, that you can be going really fast and still have peace because I had so much peace in that moment. I love skiing. Like it brings me so much joy.

Even rest in some sense, which is crazy because your body's tired physically, but yet your soul so refreshed by just the mountains and the beauty. And I've really taken that word and seen that in my life. There have been extremely busy, fast paced seasons Your body's tired physically, but yet your soul's so refreshed by just the mountains and the beauty. And I've really taken that word and seen that in my life. There have been extremely busy, fast-paced seasons that I just have felt a joy, a renewal. But then there have been other times, and one time in particular, where I really did

feel burnt out and I felt like I wanted to quit everything. I felt my heart just felt hardened a little bit even to like, which is really sad to say, but like even reading the word, like I would just get anxious about everything. Like speaking, I would hope my events would get canceled. Like it was just like a different thing. And that wasn't because I was so busy. That was more of a heart thing going on.

That was like a much bigger thing. And I remember Christian telling me like, you need to talk to a mentor. And I remember really thinking, I know I do, but I don't really know whose voice I want to speak into this. And so we just kind of started praying about it. And I said that because my heart was so sensitive. I felt like if the wrong person spoke into this right now,

it would not be good. You know, like I need someone who can speak truth, but also like tenderly, you know, like kind of just have grace for where I'm at and how I'm feeling, but also speak truth into it. And I remember praying during that season for what that was gonna look like. And then I had no plans to run into this mentor of mine,

but we ended up being at the same place at the same time, a different state, and you know how it is sometimes. I didn't even know we were gonna be at the same event at the same time, a different state. And like, you know how it is sometimes, like, I didn't even know we were gonna be at the same event. And we're like, hey, we're here. And it was like that moment. And we just sat together on this bus ride and it was just like a godsend. She just asked me the right questions

and I just started sharing. And she helped pull me out of that space, that head space, you know? Yeah, wow. But I think when you said like keeping the main thing, the main thing, that's where I go back to like, still having a fear of the Lord, still having a love for the Lord,

still having like that relationship being the most important thing, because even when it's busy, when you notice your main thing getting off, that's when you have to stop. That's when you gotta go to the mountain, you know? And hopefully, again, when you notice your main thing getting off, that's when you have to stop. That's when you got to go to the mountain. And hopefully, again, when you're in a healthy space, you're continuously going to the mountain and coming back. But when you get to that space, it's like, no,

I need to stop for a second. And I need to reset. Which now, what's so cool is since that moment, we've been so much more proactive in our future plans. It's even like, OK, look, we see this is getting a little busy. So now let's pump the brakes. Let's talk about what this is going to look like and how we can be more intentional in this time.

Because, yeah, different times of your life are going to look different. Sometimes it's going to be really busy. Sometimes it's not. But I have noticed in my personal life, it's not necessarily how busy it is. It's really just where my heart's at and if the main thing has remained in the right place.

And for me, that whole thing really was so hard after I had Honey because everything just was like, whoa, crazy. So whenever I had Haven, I was like, I am taking maternity leave. We are like, you know, going to Pals for a second. And it was so good and Set us up. Great. But when I think about y'all's life, it's like I think so much about

just the joy of the Lord is your strength, because just you and Ben's love for the Lord and the way I pursue him and want to be in the spaces he's in. Like, I feel like it just keeps you guys going. It's like truly the wind of your sails. It's just the joy of the Lord. And it's so fun to cheer you guys on. I'm laughing at us, Teo, because we're like 30 minutes in and I've only asked you one question, literally one question.

We haven't even started talking about this song yet. So please tell us all about this song, Come Into the Light, because I got to hear it at conference. It's extremely powerful. But then today I was listening to it before we were recording and just really taking on the words. Fran, it's very powerful. So tell me about writing that song.

You're kind, you're kind. Yeah, it's funny when you get given a song. And I wrote this almost two years ago with two friends, Brian Fowler and Micah Kauper. And I always giggle because when you choose a single and or you feel like God's putting his hand on something, you're like, great, we're going to release this. There's always this like slight excited slash nervous anticipation of, okay, knowing what the song means and the invitation that it is,

how am I gonna walk this out in my life or how have I already walked it out and what are you gonna ask me to walk out God as we declare this? Because it's not, you know, when you're writing songs that are based on the Bible, it's not gonna be some sweet, like cheap, happy, like here's this, like, you know, even the up songs, you, happy, here's this.

Even the up songs, if it's based on scripture, that's weighty and it's powerful and when they're God's words, it's something that's eternal. I feel the responsibility getting to bring this song and it was in the midst of everything that we've been talking about on this podcast when it comes to church context.

It always starts with a conversation at the beginning of the ride. I hadn't met Brian and Micah before, so I got to meet them. I know Brian's written on quite a few amazing songs with some dear friends. I knew I was in safe hands and came in and we were just having an honest conversation about some things going on within my personal church context and to get to write about an invitation of just, you know, the fact that we, I'll never get away from surrender. Like, I will always have to surrender to Jesus. It's not like this one-time salvation, yes, to Jesus and that's it. But it's like, yes, I say, thank you, Jesus, you are my Lord and my Savior. And now I need to learn how to walk this out with you. And it's a continuous

surrendering. Because like you said earlier on the podcast, like we live in a fallen world and we have the battle of the flesh and thank you Jesus, you know, everything that he accomplished on the cross like is enough, but we need to then choose to submit ourselves before God. And it's this journey of consecration, like constantly being transformed and being, have our minds renewed and constantly becoming more like Jesus and who He's called us to be. And that requires humility. And so we wrote this song. It sat basically in like a drop box for a year.

And then it was just before getting to go to Europe at the start of this year that I felt like we should actually, I'd shown a couple of songs to my manager and then we just felt like maybe we should actually just play this song. And so we started to play it, which is kind of hilarious because it's so not like the smart thing to do marketing wise and all that. It's like have a recorded song because when you sing it live, you're like, good, you know, like it's out now. I don't know, something, which we didn't do that. And I, and I, yeah, I'm not the brightest tool in the shed in that kind of way. But then I sort of really care about stuff because I'm like, I'll just

give you what goes, we do cool. And so we started doing it. We did it for six months, um, on the road and we just finally recorded it. And, um, it's And it's been a... Yeah, it's kind of... Again, let's keep the main thing the main thing. And God's called us to be holy because He's holy. And if it's all right, I just would love to read out two scriptures.

Yes. When I'm introducing it somewhere, these are these are the scriptures that come to mind of what this invitation is. In 1 Peter 1, verse 13, it says, of Jesus Christ. And as obedient children, do not be conformed to the former lusts which were yours in your ignorance, but like the Holy One who called you, be holy yourselves in all your behaviour. Because it is written, you shall be holy, for I am holy. If you address the Father as the one who impartially judges according to each one's work, conduct yourselves in fear during the time of your stay on earth, knowing that you were not redeemed with perishable things like silver or gold

from your futile way of life inherited from your forefathers, but with precious blood as of a lamb unblemished and spotless the blood of Christ." And the other scripture is 1 John 1, verse 5, that says, This is the message that we have heard from Him, capital H, and announced to you that God is light and in Him there is no darkness at all. If we say that we have fellowship with Him, yet we walk in the darkness, we lie and do not practice the truth. And the Bible is hard-hitting.

But if we walk in the light, as He Himself is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus, His Son, cleanses us from all sin. And I kind of just like lay it out to people that this is an invitation to bring our whole lives before God. And the enemy only ever has us when we keep things in the dark,

when we keep things hidden. And when we keep things hidden and say if we struggle with whatever it is, it could be a myriad of different things and what's been fun about getting to lead this again before it's out or whatever, we're just laying it all on the line. Like, hey, this is an altar call moment. It's so good to hear.

Yeah. It's like, okay, what are we dealing with here? Is there people struggling with pornography? Are there people sleeping with people and they're not married? Do you have an addiction to smoking? Do you love getting drunk? And just laying it all out, so it's like whatever it is. And it could be gossip or it could be binge eating or it could be anything. We're all sinners saved by grace.

And yet, for some reason, sometimes as Christians, we walk with Jesus for a couple of years and then we get to the point where we think that we're like confessional Christians. And then if someone gives an altar call for not salvation, but for surrender again and perhaps bringing some of these areas that we've allowed sin, that so easily entangles, get in and take its hold. And this has become the normal way of walking. For some reason, we let the fear of man rob us of the freedom that God actually has already paid for through His Son Jesus,

to hold us back from receiving. And it's because we're prideful and we care what people think rather than actually going after like the thing that we know that we actually need desperately and we want, but we're just not willing to be embarrassed or humble of heart to get it. And yeah.

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Life's mission as well. Their buy-for-a-cause bundles are donated to pregnancy resource centers all over the country that are in urgent need of diapers and wipes for new moms who have chosen life. Visit everylife.com and check out the amazing work Every Life is doing. That's everylife.com and check out the amazing work Every Life is doing. That's everylife.com and when you use the promo code WOE at checkout, you'll get 10% off your first order. Head on over to everylife.com, use the promo code WOE to save 10% off your first order. I was thinking about everything you're saying.

You know what's so cool is I feel like I've seen this, the most freedom in this in the young people, like in high school students recently and college students. Yeah, wow. It's crazy. Like the couple youth events I did this summer, not even that, but just even at our own church, the youth at our own church is so on fire. And I was talking to their youth minister, which is Kaylee, you know Kaylee, and she's like, no, it's insane.

The way that they confess sin and they just get it out of the way. They just walk up in front of the group and it's like, hey, can I just share? I've been struggling with this. And not stuff that is easy to share. Like walking up and being like, hey, I've been struggling with pornography addiction or I've been struggling with my yeah, pornography addiction, or I've been struggling with my identity and having questions about my gender and like just like really hard stuff that the enemy is just kind of getting in their mind and they're just bringing

it in front of their youth group and asking for prayer and people are praying over them and they are being delivered. It's just amazing. And it's not, yeah, not just like one time salvation. It's like constant surrender. And especially in high school, when you're like met with, and college, like you're constantly met with the pressure of the world every single day

and the pressure to conform and the pressure to just, you know, embrace the flesh, you know? That's like celebrating almost on these campuses. And for them to go, I don't want that. I just want Jesus. It's like so refreshing. And I do think because social media has given us such a filtered lens of life and AI has given us

such a like way to see things in such a like perfect filter way, it's so interesting how I feel that young people just crave authenticity and crave realness and they're willing to be vulnerable. But I feel like older people in the church, when I say older, I don't even mean like, oh, I mean like us. I mean like past high school, past college. It's like you get to this point where yeah, it's like you think you're supposed to look like you have it all together. So you feel afraid to confess those similar things that you're still struggling together so you feel afraid to confess those similar

things that you're still struggling with because you think, I'm not supposed to still think like this. But yet again, you're human. And so it takes constant coming into the light. I love how you said, I'm never going to outgrow surrender. It takes that surrender. And I have seen that in my own life. Last year, my close friend group, we started getting together once a week, and we call it confession hour. It's been the best thing in the whole world for all of us,

because we truly confess what we're struggling with. And it can be the smallest thing, the biggest thing. We've all shared things that we had never shared with people before that we had never shared with people before that we were so scared because we were like, you know, we feel like people look at us and like, you're supposed to be the one that is leading me out of it. And yet here I am saying like, no, I'm struggling. But even what it's done for me, one in my personal life, too, like in my marriage, it's made me such a better wife, just walking in that freedom, a better mom.

I feel like I have so much more, I don't know, empathy for just people in general, because there's not one ounce of me that thinks I'm better than anyone. Like that would be so naive and so fake to even act like that. And so anyways, I just think like everything you're saying, I've experienced even this past year in my walk with the Lord. And I've been a believer for a long time, walking with the Lord for a long time, on fire for Jesus even. But yeah, coming into the light on a daily basis,

on a weekly basis, not just like a one time, 10 years ago, I came into life and I was baptized. No, like that constant surrender is truly, truly life-changing. And so I love that you're preaching that because man, that is such a message to the church and everyone in the church. No one is exempt from that.

No leader is exempt from that surrender. So I love that. The song is so good. And it makes me think of, do you know Matt Redman? Yes, I love Matt Redman. He is incredible. He was on the podcast a couple months ago. And he was in, I don't even know if he shared this

on the podcast or if he told me this outside of the podcast, but I think he shared it on the podcast. And he was talking about when some of his biggest songs were written. And it's really cool because the Heart of Worship, for instance, he was talking about how their church family was just, they felt like they had just gotten to this place with worship where it had become so much about the, kind of how the atmosphere felt, like it was like more about like how the worship was going and

they'd just gotten away from what they intended it to be and the pastor kind of called them out on it and he goes home and he just starts singing and writing. When the music fades, all is stripped away and has simply come. He starts writing the song. And they put out the song in their church and not until years later did, you know, just that catch wind. And then all of a sudden the whole church is singing that song. We're still singing that song. That song still singing that song. That song, the Heart of Worship, has been around forever and still going. And so just speaking to you even saying,

like, yeah, we've been doing Come into the Light for six months. And maybe it's not the smart way to release things. But I think our culture is so conditioned to success being determined by what the week of release looked like. Or how many book sales did you get that week? Did it hit New York Times bestseller? Or like, did the song get on this playlist thing? And I'm like, that's just not what it's about

in the long run. You want these songs to be sung generations to come. And if they're scripture based and what you're saying is, you just pulled out your Bible and read two scriptures, like that's a timeless song. So it doesn't matter if the first week is whatever, you hope it will be, I think yours will be because I think the song's amazing.

But even like, don't wait till the marketing plan is perfect, like putting it out whenever you know it's time and being led by the spirit, that's so much more important. And so just commend you as the worship leader you are for how you lead in that. You set a great tone of just the purity of what it even means and looks like to be a worship leader.

And I'm just grateful to see that and your influence is beautiful. You're very kind and I love Matt Redmond. We're still singing that song, 10,000 Reasons. And I think that's the other thing. Like, if I just talk to anyone who's writing songs or releasing anything creatively, writing all that, like a friend said many, many years ago, you know, what's on our system to do the best with what's in our hands,

like the most excellent work that we can as unto the Lord. And whatever He chooses to do with it, that's in His... that's not my territory, that's God's territory. And, you know, in church, we always say, like, it's for the one. If one person receives Jesus, you know, at this service, it was all worth it for that moment. And all of, you know, heaven is rejoicing for someone to be able to come into the right relationship with God, through His Son Jesus Christ. And we know that that changes someone's destiny, so that's enough. And so, even the thought of one person walking out of bondage to come into the light of the Lord

and allow him to have full access to their lives. And, you know, I've, and I'm sure you have as well, like you were saying, when you experience that freedom, when you personally have gotten to the point where the pain of change becomes less than the pain of staying the same. Like you will, that will be a million times worth it, a hundred times over for people to have that encounter and that moment of freedom of going, I couldn't care what people think. I just want to be living in a way that is, that God has intended.

And when you get to that place of freedom, you taste the air and you go, the air is so sweet here. If I had known that it was going to be like this, I would have come running a long time ago. So true. So yeah, I would just say, if you know, it's perhaps maybe it's through this conversation or through hearing the song or maybe another thing that has just been like, you know, you know, the Holy Spirit's like prompting you like, don't just like put it to the side, but follow up with the Lord in, you know, in your car in your private time and go, okay God, like what

are the areas I need to bring to light and again to encourage people like I feel like even today and this morning God was highlighting some things within my own life and some areas that I need to work on and continue to bring into the light and to not get stressed and to not just be overcome but bring that before God and say, okay, you know, praise God for an amazing husband who's like, I think you need to press into that and ask why, like, why is that coming up and what is that and where is the root of that? But doing it in the right context with the right people around and in the presence of God and making sure that that's the first place that you come to. I just pray it's an encouragement that people know that it's not from a place of like,

but rather the whole premise of the chorus is, do we have a correct view of the person who is the light and who's waiting on the other side? He's gentle, lowly, meek, he's got mercy in his eyes. This is the God who actually desires for us to walk in freedom more than we do. And so, yeah, just getting out of respect to him, God. I love this song so much because it's so honest and it's so real, but at the same time, it's such an invitation. Like it is a true invitation to come into the light and this is what you're going to receive when you do because this is the character of who God is. And it's so

beautiful. I really am laughing at us because we actually only got to literally one question. But the conversation was so good and I knew that was going to happen. So everyone who submitted a question, I'm going to follow up with Taya on those questions at some point. This just means she's going to have to come back. And also to all of you listening too, Tay and I are about to do a couple of events together, the Found events that we are so excited about.

With Kayla, Lisa Harper is kind of leading the charge on that, Onika McClellan's gonna be with us. You can look up the Found Collective events and see where we're gonna be, but we can't wait to be in person with you guys. If you're in the area, come out, it's gonna be an awesome night of worship and some worship word, sisterhood, all the things.

So today, I can't wait for that. I love you so much. Thank you for coming on and just being so real. And I find myself just leaning into everything you're saying. And half the time, I forgot that I was needing to interview you because I was like, can I ask a follow up question on that, actually? So maybe do for a phone call later, but love you and just really grateful for you.

Hey, back at you. Congratulations on the 300. So looking forward to all that God is gonna do in and through your life and your family's life. And just can't wait for more times of chatting and being on a couch together and hanging out. And it's gonna happen at found and it's gonna happen when we call each other later. So, it's gonna be so good.

Love you, Fred.