Why Won't You Date Me? with Nicole Byer - Achieving 'Couple Goals' (w/ Michael Jai White)

Episode Date: September 15, 2023

Ever wondered what lies behind those picture-perfect 'couple goals'? Action star Michael Jai White (Black Dynamite, Outlaw Johnny Black) joins Nicole to spill his secrets to a happy, argument-free relationship. He shares why he doesn't believe in 'dating' and offers a fresh perspective on building a relationship with a partner.  Follow Nicole Byer: See Nicole on tour! Get tickets at linktr.ee/nicolebyerwastakenTwitter: @nicolebyerInstagram: @nicolebyerMerch: podswag.com/datemeNicole's book: indiebound.org/book/9781524850746

Why won't you date me? Why won't you date me? Why won't you date me? Please tell me why! Ooh, baby! Welcome to another episode of Why Won't You Date Me, a podcast where me and Nicole Byers try to explore love. My guest today is an action star, martial arts master,

and the first African-American to portray a comic book superhero in a major motion picture. His roles include Spawn, Tyson, and the hilarious Black Dynamite. Now he's riding into action with the much-anticipated sequel, Outlaw Johnny Black, now playing in theaters. Get ready for Michael Jai White! Hey, I like that. Thank you. Thank you so much for doing this. Thank you for having me. Okay, let's hop into it. So, Michael, are you single?

Are you married? Do you not wish to say? Because that's also an option. I am super, super happily married. Ooh, how long have you been married? Oh, boy. It's a trip. I think somewhere around 11 years is when we had the ceremony.

Okay. Somewhere around 11 years is when we had the ceremony. Okay. But my heart's been with her since the 27 years when we first met. Wait, that is so adorable. I love it. My heart has been with her. When did your heart, when did you meet?

When did your heart, when did you guys? Well, that's correct. Yeah. Well, we met 27, yeah, about 27 years ago at a club. Ooh. Yeah. So you can't meet the one at the club. And I did.

I love this. So was she dancing and you were like, ooh wee, those moves are for me. Yeah. Before that, she had a friend who was, she had a girlfriend that was kind of like vivacious and very upfront, you know, so to speak. And she was speaking, she was very much, you know, kind of had, you know, had the attributes showing very much, you know. And she was that type. But I noticed her friend was not that way. Okay. And so it became like who's your friend and so so i saw that

gillian had just as many attributes and you know but she was being very um reserved so she wasn't showing everything off and so that that really intrigued me. And we started dancing and that was it. I mean, we had a lot in common. And so here we are. Okay. So how did you know she was the one? Was there a specific moment where you were like, ah, this is for me? Well, you know, honestly, I screwed it up years ago and we spent some time apart.

Honestly, I screwed it up years ago and we spent some time apart. I didn't really know she was the one because I think I was a little full of myself and I had a, I don't know, I was young, running around town and, you know, actor, that whole thing. And I know whenever we get together, it was just like, it was no work. And then we kind of lost track because, you know, busy in her career i was busy in mine and um we weren't making any demands on each other and so we wound up going separate ways and getting into these like relationships that we were used to where it took work to kind of push a donkey up an ice hill. And then, you know, as chance would have it, I was on a set years ago, a long time ago. And see, I'll backtrack a little bit.

I've never been drunk and I've never been high. I never smoked a joint, never done anything like that. So I've never been really altered. And I had a cold and I took some cold medicine that was given to me by this producer. And I had a really bad effect to this cold medicine. And so I was convinced that I was going to die. I was convinced that I was going to die. And so in my thinking,

my final night, I, I called her and confessed that if I were not to make it, that she was the one. And so I eventually like, I lived. You lived through the cold medicine. Yeah.

So, so, so then there was on the table and, you know, so she had those same feelings for me. And, you know, when I got back into town, we just picked up and just never looked back. I love that. Love brought to you by Robitussin. Exactly. You actually guessed it correctly. It was, yeah. Yeah, it was Robitussin cold Exactly. You actually guessed it correctly. It was, yeah.

It was Robitussin cold. It was old. It was some kind of tablet type of thing. I remember when I opened the package, it was like dusty. I was like, this might not be good. This is expired Robitussin, but I will take it. Try to beat this cold. Yeah.

I love that. That you were just like, I might die, but I will take it. Try to beat this cold. Yeah. I love that. That you were just like, I might die, but you're the one. What? That's romantic. What's the most romantic thing you've done? Like, how did you propose? Oh, we never proposed. Oh.

I got to tell you, like, we're not conventional in the way of, and I've never been that type of person that just went the conventional way of anything. I never even believed in dating. To this day, I can say I don't date. I hang out. Okay. You know, I hang out. I don't put any pressure on that. There's a pressure to be like for this, like, I don't know, contrived behavior that I never liked.

I'm like, hey, I'm going to be who I am three years from now on day one. You know, so so and, you know, whenever I would date or call it dating someone or whatever, hang out. It's like I would say like, hey, I don't know what what to make of this. I have no expectations. You might be the love of my life, or you might be like a cousin or a sister. Either way, it's going to be the way it's naturally going to be, you know? So we'll know if we're attracted to each other, but I'm not going to hide my flaws and I hope you don't hide yours. I'm just going to be me. And so that way you cut out all that BS,

you know, that representation, you know, you being your representative and you're doing all that, the monologue. And everybody's got a monologue that paints them to be like really a good person. We all have that monologue.

I'm sure Jeffrey Dahmer has that but but you know when it comes down to it you know we are you know it's kind of like i like to celebrate our flaws because that makes us more of who we are than our attributes right so i wouldn't hide those things from you or or just try to you know kind of put a round peg into a square hole. It's going to be what it's going to be. So, like, we hang out, you know. So that was the thing I would do. Hang out, you know, because I look at it as friends.

I mean, I value my friends, my friend relationships more than past romantic relationships. Friendly relationships even lasted. So that way I look at it, I go into it like I can't lose. But if you got an agenda, that's on you. You may think you're on a date. I don't think I'm on a date. I think I'm hanging out with you and I'm going to present who I am. And hopefully you show me who you are.

Honestly, I do think that's a very healthy approach because I feel like dating is kind of like we're all used car salesmen trying to sell you this like beat up Pinto that I am. This flawed Ford Focus that has three wheels. And I'm like, there's a fourth coming. And it's like, no, bitch, the fourth is not coming. You're a three wheeled Ford Focus. That three wheels. And I'm like, there's a fourth coming. And it's like, no, bitch, the fourth is not coming. You're a three-wheeled Ford Focus. That's what you are. And I feel like if you're just hanging out, there is no pressure for any expectations. And it's nice and chill. And it's like, let's see where we go. Yeah. I think you got to govern your own wants and your desires. It's got to start with you.

Like, if you're going in for a job, right, since there's something at stake, you may not be your 100% self because there's something at stake. But imagine, okay, you go for a job application. I almost called it an audition. I've been an actor too long. You're going there for the job, right? And say the boss loves golf and you hate golf. Well, it's easy just to not say anything and just go, oh yeah, that's nice. And you give the boss an impression that you might like golf too. You get the job, then he invites you to play golf. And what are you going to do? You're going to keep your mouth shut. When are you going to be up and honest and say,

can't stand this thing? But now imagine the freedom to, even though you want a job deep down, you sit there and he offers that he loves golf. And you say, I can't stand golf. I just can't see how somebody could spend all day knocking a little white ball around. And the boss goes, well, I love it. Hopefully, maybe I'll change your mind one day. And you get the job, right? You feel no pressure.

You presented yourself. And maybe he might invite you to golf, but you go, no, I can't stand it. You joke around, but there's no pressure on. So it's the same thing. But you but you got to you got to govern yourself. You got to tell yourself this is not for a job. This is not for a relationship. This is not for anything other than I'm learning who another person is and I'm not going to hide who I am. If you do that, I don't think you could ever miss and you can never

look back and wish that you did something different because you're representing who you are. I think pretending or doing something that you think the other person wants to hear or see is suicide. You've killed yourself to be something that you're not. Why? And if somebody is eventually going to love you, they're going to love all of you, even your flaws, right? If you hide your flaws and hide who you are, you make it impossible for that person to love you because you've not presented who you are. Yeah, you've just presented this version of you that's like malleable and you're twisting yourself to like these things that this other person likes, but then you're just not being true to yourself. I think that's really important to stay true to yourself and like stand your ground. Like, I don't want to do this.

I don't like doing this i feel like i know a lot of couples that they're like oh my partner does x y and z i don't like it but like i'm just gonna do it and it's like well that you don't have to they can do that with a friend they can they can do that with somebody else like you don't have to be miserable just to make someone happy yeah you gotta you got to be aware of your own desires. As a guy, my friends, I used to say this to my friends all the time. Well, as you know, guys are kind of sexually motivated. And so they may do whatever, say whatever, say, oh yeah, I like this, I like that. It's a root to the fruit basically right oh a root to the fruit

but if they're you know like my friends like could tell me okay you know man this is one and blah blah blah and all this and then they have sex with them with the woman or whatever and then later on i hear oh we, we know. Yeah. I got to call her back, man. She's she's. I'm like, wait a minute. This is the person that you thought was it. Now there's a learning situation here because this is the third or fourth one that I know that soon as you had the sex, you're not so motivated. Maybe, maybe your sexual desire clouded your judgment maybe it's you know one percentage of

how she's going to look on your arm another percentage of conquest another percentage of you know bragging or whatever and then another percentage was sex well if you think it was a hundred percent of that woman you had something to to learn. Now you've got that part. Now you're free to investigate the other stuff. And maybe that wasn't it. You convinced yourself it was 100% of who she was. And so that's a natural mistake people make because they're not marshalling their desires, right? And then they find themselves with somebody that they don't completely desire.

And then look at, well, you know, to put it in a men's situation, it's very easy because, you know, we are driven by that. Now, what's really sad is look at the women's situation. How many women do you know or friends you know who've been you know uh going about a relationship that doesn't have much promise until that guy proposes oh so many people where they're just like oh he's the one i love him so much and it's like girl you were just talking shit about him yesterday exactly so so that's another one of those percentages. That's another thing where be careful of your desires. Because your choice to marry this guy, how much of that was how he's going to look on your arm?

The promise of children. The day that you, you know, the Cinderella complex. The whole social thing with this is the day that, I mean, I get to announce this to the world, all of these things. And then you marry this guy and all these other percentages that you chose to do this. It wasn't a hundred percent this guy. It was all that other stuff. So I always say, just really, you really be careful of your own desires because it can cloud everything.

You know, so in a way, you know, hang out, take your desires off the damn table. You got to not want it. Like if I think women will appreciate if a guy does not want them sexually or puts that at bay and doesn't choose them and takes the sexual component out. And I think a guy would love it if a woman would take the marriage component out of it, but it'll be, it'll be who both parties, if they did it for themselves to say, I'm not driven by, by marriage here. It's, it's, it's this, I mean, think about your best friends. It's a chemistry thing. Yes. Chemistry lasts, you know, I always say I lucked out because I married my best friend, you know, and you know, there's always times where you want to, you know, have your time by yourself or whatever, like away from your partner.

I've never had that. And she tells me she's never had that as well. Because I like it sounds corny, but it really is because I took all that other stuff out of it. But like we feel like a two person cult. Like I've known, I've known her 27 years. And this is one of the things I hate talking about is that we've only had three arguments in all that time. Really? In 27 years, you've only had three arguments. Three arguments. And they were actually laughable when we look back at it.

Our biggest argument was in Africa. In Africa, we were in Nairobi and staying in these tents. And we had to have a guide to walk us back from dinner to our tents. Well, I think my knee or my ankle, i got like weird pain in my knee or ankle and we were walking and she was keeping up with the guide and i i kind of like fell back a little bit and got got got uh frustrated that they were leaving me in the dark with like possible animals and i got frustrated. And I had this gift bag thing that I just kind of threw.

And she's like, why'd you do that? I'm like, you guys are leaving me. And so when we got inside, I think because it was connected to a childhood kind of thing with me, I voiced my frustration. But it actually, we were laughing about, I don't know, 25 minutes later, but that was the biggest argument we've ever had. And I, I, I hate to sound like we're, you know, whatever, but that's the truth. It's just like, how, how often do you argue with your best friend? I mean, yeah, I don't really argue with my best friend at all.

I cannot think of a huge fight we've ever really been in. I got to say, three arguments in 27 years. So it's like one argument every nine years. That is delightful. That is so nice. Yeah, it's not like we try not to. But honestly, it's like our kids, you know, like we could be in the kitchen goofing around and our kids are like, well, you guys go in your room. We have to sleep. We have

to get up and go to school. And, and, um, to have, uh, you know, one of our daughters, she's 22 now, but I mean, when she was 14, I believe, she said, you are my couple goals. And to hear that from a teenager was something that really touched us. And but but yeah, we we're lucky. But well, let me tell you, it's because we we've had hell in past relationships. So it's not like I don't identify. hell in past relationships so it's not like i don't identify i identify left right and center which with struggling relationships that make you want to like kill yourself or the other person and i think there's a there's a light at the end of the tunnel because it only takes one

that you get gets it right to make it all worthwhile. And sometimes just remembering what things used to be like makes me appreciate where I am now so much more. So would you say your past relationships are the reason why I feel like you've rejected tradition and social norms? Yes. rejected tradition and social norms yes so past relationships influenced how you went about this relationship or the way that you were not dating but meeting and hanging out with people yeah i mean i i always kind of kept it like this like the not traditional dating thing and you're like and i've always had that mantra hey, I don't know how this is going to go. I am not looking for a mate.

I am, you know, and I, and to be honest with you, friendships mean more to me, you know, and if we were to be involved, it's our friendship that I'm going to try to nurture more than anything else. So you need not like hide anything from me, you know? So that's kind of the way I went about it in my adulthood. Cause you know, when I was younger, I was running around, you know, I was a guy running these streets. Yeah. Yeah. But it's still, I was always looking for the one, But, you know, I figure it's a game of numbers. It's a numbers game, baby. So, yeah, you know, if you got 120, you can find the one easier, you know.

Real quick, we do have to take a break. and oh we're back i wanted to talk to you about jujitsu so you started taking jujitsu at seven yeah yeah i was taking a combination of jujitsu and a style called shotokan so yeah yeah so yeah that was really early on And are you you're like a black belt, obviously. Right. Yeah. Yeah. I've been a black belt since I was 13. Oh, holy shit. That's wild. Yeah. And then I went and had got black belts and other styles as well. Oh, my God. So did was there a reason? Did you like see something and then go, this is what I'd like to do?

Or did your parents put you in classes? How did it come about? is what I'd like to do? Or did your parents put you in classes? How did it come about? Well, I mean, I just saw martial arts and saw myself as that. It was something that was empowering. And I just wanted to do that. Actually, my mother was afraid to put me in martial arts classes because I was already like, I used to fight a lot. She's like, oh, no, am I giving him the tools to really fight? Exactly. I mean, really, I kind of was in the martial arts because I could fight all the time and not get in trouble. But it was, you know, it was a reaction to my surroundings.

I was in a really, you know was in Brooklyn and Bridgeport, Connecticut. It was tough surroundings. I was a sensitive kid, and martial arts was my armor. So I put a lot of time into it. I was insecure. When it comes down to it, I was a very insecure kid. And that's what you tend to do. You become the fortress. I like the fact that it was like you liked fighting.

So then you started fighting in a controlled environment. So it's like you could get the aggression out in a safe way. And I feel like a lot of child raising is like, no, don't do that. As opposed to this is something you do. Let's figure out how you can do it in a way that's helpful for you. Absolutely. Especially boys. I mean, this testosterone thing is real. I mean, you know, we're in part of the animal kingdom. Look at your pit bulls and look at any of the more dominant male muscular dogs. They have to tear. They have to do that. They have to exert themselves. Why should we be that much different? I was my height at 14. I looked like a grown man when I was really young. Yeah. So, I mean, I grew quickly and I was fighting against men at 15 years old in tournaments. And it was just perfectly natural. I was very much, it was fortuitous that I would play the role of Mike Tyson because

we were so similar. And when he was developing I was developing he's fighting grown men when I was fighting grown men and and it's it's it's a it's psychologically uh it very impacting when you're that young and realizes you have this kind of power over adults you know so oh yeah it's pretty wild yeah you're drunk with it for a while and but luckily like i didn't have the the money and all that fame behind it um and all the distractions and obstacles that he had yeah his story's pretty pretty intense yeah it's like a poor kid who gets in trouble learns how fight, and then gets thrown all this money and no direction, and no one's like, invest, save.

You can't treat people however the fuck you want. You got to have some sort of respect. Yeah, his story is very, very, very interesting. Yeah, it's just like the pretty girl who at 15 knows everybody is going to kiss her behind, right? Because nobody's going to disagree with her. And it's like, yeah, the sky in your world is the sky in everybody else's world. Yeah, the sky is green.

Nobody's going to tell you it's not, right, if you believe it. And so with being a young man with this power that everybody, I don't care who you are, With this power that everybody, I don't care who you are. It could be a room full of De Niro's, Elon Musk's or political whizzes. All those people, all those men, when a Mike Tyson walks in the room, everybody looks at him. That's a male thing. That is a thing that it can really screw you up if you're young and you realize you have that kind of power over everyone.

You know, that fame is like, it's famous. It's beyond fame is what it is. Yeah. Yeah. You become this entity. It's wild. Yeah. I want to talk to you about you had a non-traditional route into acting you were a special education teacher for a little

bit yeah yeah i was i was a teacher i was a um special ed teacher and i i was really you know really proud of doing that because i think i i made a difference in And it really touches me because it was a teacher when I was younger. It's a guy named Andrew Karsich who kind of saw through my rough exterior and saw that I had a brain going on in there, even though I tried to scare everybody to stay away from me. But he really saw that I had a potential to go into college. From the day he wrote me this personal letter, I changed. I totally changed who I was. I mean, I totally started showing that I could do extra credit. I could put myself in the gifted program. the gifted program. And not only was I the scariest kid in school, I was one of the smartest. And to impress him, I just kept going that direction and eventually got scholarships and started doing track and field and all this other stuff. And everybody else was just shocked.

And people were like, all my thug friends was like oh wait a minute who's this my my thug friends told me i remember one time they they pulled me aside and said hey man there's a you know somebody else has your name in this school i'm like what are you talking about and they were like talking to me like you should you know make this person change his name like or you know something like like they're like this was some threat to me and i'm like how do you know there's another person with my name they said because he's on the honor roll and i was like oh wow that shows what you think of me that uh-huh that i can't be on the honor roll yeah and and be running these streets you know you're like i can yeah i can do it time. I can run the streets and also I can study a little bit.

Yeah. So, you know, but that's just that inform people that, you know, what people thought, you know, and I'm like, oh, OK. So they try to put you in this category. And that's things I railed against my entire life. Mm hmm. And then how did you get into acting? You you were teaching in Connecticut. So were you auditioning in New York or Connecticut things? No, no. I was always auditioning in New York, my, my time off. Um, and even sometimes if I can get an audition after class, I'm, I'm getting on the train and going to New York because I enjoyed it, right? I didn't

really accept the fact that I had potential to be an actor until I kept getting really close on big roles. And I'd go into callback after callback. And then sooner or later, I was in callback rooms with people I've seen on TV and movies. I'm like, damn, I'm kind of close. You know, one of these days that guy is going to be sick. That one's going to be on another different TV show. And it's going to be me, you know. And so eventually I got this.

It was down to this big play. It was the first time to kill a mockingbird was going to be done on stage. Right. And it was a big deal. It was with Tony award winners and everything. And, um, I remember when I was teaching my class, all my auditions, I, I turned, I turned to kill aockingbird into a classroom lesson because it was so much about looking at the world from other people's perspectives, right? And understanding, even though these people, if you knew the story about Tom Robinson, everybody in that town kind of knew what was going on. But because of the times, Tom Robinson was going to meet his demise, even though people knew better. You know, it was like they couldn't judge against this white woman. And that's something that I wanted

to turn into a classroom lesson. And I would do the courtroom scene as an assignment and have everybody rotating characters and look at everything from those people's perspectives. I thought it would be a good life lesson for them. And I eventually got the role and had to leave. But I arranged for the class, not only the class, but a large part of the school, to come and see me on stage, perform that. And, and, uh, that, that was something I was really happy about

because, you know, I've, you know, I've been, I've, I've been in contact with some of the students in the past, but that turned out to be a good life lesson. And for them to see something just kind of develop in somebody from where they're from move on to something. Succeeding. Yeah. develop and somebody from where they're from move on to something yeah yeah so you know that that's that was my transition into uh the acting thing and then but i still kind of teach to this day because i i do uh um motivational speaking around the around the country what a treat though to like have things workshopped in the classroom and like have a lesson and then be able to see it all together on a stage. And then your teacher is starring in it. Like, that's really incredible.

How did you get into acting? Like, what made you decide that that was something that you wanted to do? Like, did you take an acting class or? I was taking acting classes only to have fun. I was battling left and right brain going, no, it's not something that you make a living off of. And besides, the kids in college who were active, you know, the active type people with the blue hair and everything else. And they had this look at me, pay attention to me energy. And I knew I didn't have that.

else and they had this look at me, pay attention to me energy. And I knew I didn't have that. So I thought, no, I don't have what it takes to be an actor if it's that thing. But the fact that I've always, you know, I studied psychology and was always, you know, like I've been on my own since I was 14. So I've always been fascinated with human nature. And with acting, I was able to use a talent and an interest that I always had in looking at things from other perspectives. And I guess I had a natural ability because whenever I recount stories for friends, they tell me, hey, man, you just sounded just like so-and-so. And I'm like, oh, really?

So it's something that, yeah, it was a skill that I honed, but I think I was kind of naturally born with. And so, you know, and it kind of made sense for me because I was always this real eclectic person that, you know, friends can never, they can never really describe me because I didn't fit on one shelf. Because it's, you know, it's like, oh, what is it? This comedian called me something. He called me Denzel, he called me denzel van swartzenhart and and and he says yeah you're denzel van swart every time i see he called me denzel van swartzenhart because of the the obvious connections with denzel, Leading Man, Van Damme, Schwarzenegger physique, that kind of action thing.

And then Kevin Hart, because I do comedy, I guess. But, you know, I was like, wow, that's very astute. But yeah, sometimes that confuses people when you don't fit in one particular category or one shelf. fit in one particular category or one shelf and so that i i made that you know kind of schizophrenic character work for me in this in this acting uh genre and i feel like i have a lot more to offer i think so um when you got spawn what was that like that's huge that was like that's incredible. Like, yeah, to be the first African-American to portray like a comic book superhero. Like what, how did that feel?

Did it feel like a lot of pressure or are you like, oh no, I'm ready for this? Yeah. I mean, anything I do, I'm going to try to do my best. So it doesn't, it didn't really matter so much, right? It would only matter if I wasn't able to do my best work, you know? So I didn't think of the magnitude of it. I think that's focusing on the wrong thing. And so I remember I went to a meeting because I had done the Mike Tyson story and that was very well, it was critically acclaimed. And so I met with these

people who were doing Spawn. And I'd already been cast to be in Mortal Kombat that was shooting at the same time. So I didn't know what Spawn was. And I just naturally went to this meeting and left, not thinking of anything. And then the next thing I know, a friend of mine was getting cast in my role in Mortal Kombat. And I'm like, what the hell just happened? You know, and then my manager's call with the happy news that you're spawned. I'm like, what's spawned? What? I went to this meeting, but what the fuck is a spawn?

Exactly. I'm like, that meeting I went to? They said, yeah. They said, it's a good thing. I'm like, is it? I don't even know what that is. Right. And then a friend of mine, a contact of a friend of mine who was really in the comic book.

I told him, hey, they cast me in this Spawn thing. And he's like, oh my God. I guess it's a good thing. So then I kind of had to delve into what that was. But I had not seen the comic book. I didn't know anything about it, but I knew people were excited about it. That is, I feel like, kind of cool.

Because since you didn't have like reverence for it it's like you can't really fail you just have to embrace it and learn about it and do the job because i feel like when you revere something there's something to lose yeah well hey nicole you know you know you notice it through a line there. You see? It kind of came around, right? When there are no expectations and you don't put a pressure on something, the only thing you can do is succeed. Well, yeah, because I'm in that meeting spawn. Like, I'm not even there for a job, really. I'm like, okay, whatever.

I'm here for a meeting. And so there's, you know, there's no pressure whatsoever. I'm just being me. Okay. We have to take one more break. Okay. You were in, why did I get married? And why did I get married too?

I love, why did I get married? There is the scene at the table where everyone is revealing things. Yeah. That was truly wild. And what was like that? What was it like to shoot that? Oh, it was a lot of fun. I was shooting with my friends.

I had known Tyler well before that. I kind of knew Tyler before he got really popular. really popular i was part of uh his uh with the the house of pain series before he got the the uh the uh the network okay to do it so i did his pilot series oh of that i was part of it and i you know i kind of uh i uh reconnected i kind of did uh the same role later when I got picked up for a series. So I know Tyler from way back when. And it just so happens that he put me together with Tasha Smith as a couple, not knowing that we really dated in real life. You did? Yeah, yeah.

Oh, that's so funny. That's wild. Yeah. So we were keeping it secret. We were putting together our background of our stories and all that kind of stuff. Because we had known each other. We already knew we had chemistry. So we were going to keep it secret.

And I think it was like we pretty much threw most of all the shooting. And then I think she let the cat out the bag. Yeah. Yeah. Because one day I walked on set and just, you know, women, they can't keep secrets too well. No, I sure can't. Because, you know, I said hi to Janet. I'm like, hey, Janet, how you doing today she went i'm like what she just looked at me like i know

something and then and sharon little did the same thing i'm like i went straight to tasha i'm like tasha did you say something she said well yeah i. But anyway, but, you know, we were going to keep that as our little secret that, you know, this is our acting that made, you know. That made it so good and not the history of us dating. Well, yeah. You know, and I do say it was the acting, but it also the history you had part of. God, I love that dinner. The dinner scene is so wild. I think it ends with

who gets hit uh i choke her oh yes that's what it is yes you choke her and i remember seeing it and screaming and being like oh i love this that's what it was a choking yeah yeah which never happened that's another person i never had an argument with all the years that we, well, we dated very briefly. But in all the years of our friendship, we've never had an argument either. I love this. Well, what's the secret to that? What's the secret of not arguing? Well, I kind of think, well, I have a philosophy that I don't, I always want to prove the opposition right before I prove them wrong. I love learning, right? So if I learn that I did something wrong, then I learn something.

So you only know what you already know. So my thing is, if I'm proved wrong, then I've learned something new. So my goal is never egotistical. I don't want to be right. My thing is, hey, I feel this way. That way, I'm probably wrong less of the time because I'm not, I'm not, um, you know, not egotistically motivated. I'm, I'm motivated to, to be wrong. So I'm, I'm really want to be able to tell your argument and know your argument just as well as you do. Cause when you're upset, you know, your, your communication lacks. So I, I'm going to try to hear you. I'm going to try to prove you wrong. So that's worked with me just throughout life. I mean, you know, somebody could, you know, pull beside me in another car and say, you're an asshole, right? And if I defend myself, I may not learn that, hey, maybe I cut the guy off back there. And I'm like, oh,

shoot, I'm sorry. You must be right to some degree. You know what I mean? I don't think unless you're a total idiot, everybody, I don't care who you are, everybody has a modicum of truth or just their right to some degree. But maybe it's only 20%. Maybe it's 80%. But until I find out what they're talking about, I'm not going to gain anything if I'm just protecting my ego. So, I mean, that's just always worked for me as far as communication is concerned. always worked for me as far as communication is concerned. And if somebody is upset, I don't hold them at their words because it's not their words. You could say, hey, you could say I love you in a certain way that it doesn't mean that you can say, hey, will you please pass the salt?

And I know there's something going on and I'm not going to like respond to your. Your energy, I'm going to try to figure well, I'm going to like circumvent that because I know there's something wrong. But I mean, I can only do that if my emotions are intact. Are you in therapy? You have a very Zen approach to life. And I'm I want to get there. It seems like because I get defensive a lot when people say like if someone's like pass the salt and like, did I do something? Did I put the salt too far away from as opposed to like oh this isn't about me this is about you exactly going on with you why do you need the salt and are you feeling okay um yeah like how how did you get to this this mindset just because i like to know the truth about things and it's a waste of time i just It's so sad when people are wasting time going on two different tangents, right?

And not meeting up. I mean, I've had amazing conversations with people that you would think you could extract no knowledge from. I've had amazing... I remember years back, there was a group of 10 white supremacists that I had an amazing conversation with. And I had fun with it because I knew deep down they were humans. And I knew that there was a way that I could connect with them without them even realizing what I'm doing. I've actually played this

Bengali thing for a lot of my life. And I do think that everybody can be reached. You just have to circumvent the minefields. And if you know who that person is, you kind of get a feeling of who they are. It should be no excuse for you to kind of get your way, so to speak. for you to, you know, kind of get your way, so to speak, you know? So, I mean, you know, it's, you know, I, I feel like, okay, well, of course the first thing is the emotion thing, right? Well, liken it to a traffic jam. If I'm in a traffic jam and I'm pissed off because I don't know the source, you know, but when you get up at the beginning of the traffic jam, you see a car on its side and there's an accident. You're no longer upset.

Right. Because there's a logical reason. Well, the fact is, how many traffic jams is going to take before you realize it's not a conspiracy against you? Right. So you can get in a traffic jam right now and go, God damn it. But the first thing you do is you ask a question. What the hell is going on? Why is this?

You ask what, when, why, how? It's a question. So if you concern yourself with the question, then that's the first thing. You know, what? Wait, wait a minute. Yeah, there's a logical answer to this that i just don't know right um please blast the salt well there's a logical answer to why that person said that and if you are on the hunt for that you don't waste a lot of time with the other stuff

you know that there's a logical reason for this. There's a logical reason for the guy calling me an asshole when he pulls up beside me. It's just, okay, well, concern yourself with that. But also, if you're upset about something, the first thing you do is ask a question, right? You will always be like, what is this person thinking? Ah, okay. This is that type of person. This is, ah, I think I know. Or if you don't know, you go, well, there's a logical explanation to this. I just don't know it yet. And it just applies in a lot of scenarios. So like, say, since we're talking about relationships, and my wife says, oh, I'm fine.

You know she ain't fine. Right, right. So, you know, what am I going to do? I'm going to, you know, point out the reasons why i don't think she's fine is that gonna work this is not that's a waste of time i know she's not supposed to know why she's she's you know that's my job as as you know her mate or whether it's my friend or my wife or whatever there's going to be things that they're going to not be focused on. And so, you know, she's like, I'm fine. You know, then I, I play Mr. Detective, you know, but I don't let her know I'm playing Mr. Detective because that's going to piss her off,

you know? So, so, you know, it's just working around it. And dare I say, it's kind of fun figuring out these things because you're not, you know, you're not beleaguered with the weight of something unless you put it on yourself. Why do that? So you got to get mad because they're mad. It's like now you make it a damn near impossible to me to figure out what's going on. Yeah, that's interesting. I like that you are playing detective to figure out what's going on and why they're not actually fine. But you're like, I'm not overtly doing it. It's like, how can I support you right now?

Like, if it looks like you're uncomfortable on the couch, it's like, give you a pillow. Maybe that'll make you feel better. And maybe you'll want to talk to me. Yeah. And if, you know, like, like as you are, you, you are very well equipped as a comedian to see the other side of things. And one thing, I mean, choosing a mate, I feel like my most important thing in choosing a mate is intelligence. Because I feel like with intelligence comes all these other things. When you're intelligent, there's an understanding of irony and you appreciate, you know,

the nuances of so many things. And also with intelligence, you know, comes the common sense of planning ahead and just so many other things like even, you know, your overall health and doing things that's going to benefit you and your, your family that goes along with intelligence. So, so it's kind of like, it's like, uh, you know, that's the most important attribute because it brings all the other things with it. Um, we do have to wrap it up. This has been delightful. Um, do you have any advice for me,

a single woman or the other single people listening? Hey, my advice is be who you are. You cannot lose being who you are. If somebody takes that as a weakness, you're well rid of that person, you know? So it's, it's like you win when somebody loves you for who you are. Warts and all, you know, don't don't don't hide the flaws. The flaws are what makes us who we are more than our attributes. So, you know, don't don't hide that, you know, and, you know, put it on front street. You know, somebody takes that as a weakness. Shame on them. You got to feel sorry for them because, you know, they're not going to often get somebody who is willing to be honest.

That is valuable. Somebody who's willing to be completely honest, you don't get that a lot. hope people value that uh you know more and more these days because you know the social media and everything is trying to cram people into being the same person just carbon cutouts of each other it is that is like a weird thing that i've noticed i'm like everyone dresses the same everyone does the same shit and i'm just like that's not me. I want to look the way I want to look. Exactly. Exactly. That's how you win. You know, somebody, somebody know, isn't it?

Isn't it something where somebody doesn't, they don't give you roses. They give you your favorite flower. Wouldn't you want that? That they would invest the time to know what you want and not what everybody else is supposed to want. Yeah, that is nice. Yeah. Because I don't like roses. I like lilies.

There you go. That's my wife's favorite as well. Oh, really? Yeah. I love lilies. They're just so pretty. Yeah. See, that's what you want. You want the lilies.

You don't want the roses. Okay. Michael, before we go, I ask all my guests this. I've only missed this question maybe four or five times. But would you date me? Well, the way I look at things, I don't date, remember? Oh, yes. I've already forgotten.

No, I don't believe in dating. I look at hanging. It's hanging out. And of course I'd hang out with you. You know, of course. Yeah, absolutely. I love that. Thank you so much for being here. Well, thanks course. Yeah. Absolutely. I love that. Thank you so much for being here.

Well, thanks for having me. Well, thank you, Michael. If you like this episode of Why Won't You Date Me, you can rate it or give me five stars or whatever on Apple Podcasts. You know, I should know what it is by now, but I don't. I should know what it is by now, but I don't. Anyway, if you write me a nasty message hitting on me to why won't you date me podcast at gmail.com, I will read it. So this nice person sent one saying, thanks for reading my nasty message about you and big sky daddy Ed Bastian. And I'm sorry it made you sad per your request. Here's part two, which has a happy ending. Once again, Mr. Bastian, if you happen to be listening and don't want to hear this nastiness, stop listening now.

Nicole, when I wake up on the private jet after slipping on you and Ed's bodily chemicals and find that you two left, I will leave the jet and search for you on a deserted island. After searching for a while, I will find that it's not actually a deserted island, but actually a popular tourist attraction. However, you and Ed have gone at it so hard in a popular waterfall pool that the water will be completely milky from your bodily elements. It'll scare the tourists away. I will get mad at you and Ed for leaving me. But you make it up to me by allowing me to take you back on the private jet and cook clam chowder in your withering puss while I get to use Ed's jet for a year. Then we will serve

the clam chowder to Karens who complain about the smallest things about their food and mistreat service workers. Is this a happier message? Not when there's clam chowder baking in my pussy, but thank you. Bye-bye. Why Won't You Date Me with Nicole Byer is produced by me, Mars. It's executive produced by Adam Sachs, Nick Liao, and Jeff Ross at Team Coco. With talent bookings by Paula Davis, Gina Batista, and Maddie Ogden. Got a question, crazy dating story, or a dirty message for Nicole? Write it to whywontyoudatemepodcast at gmail.com for a chance to have it featured on a future show.

Thanks for listening. We'll see you next week with a brand new episode. Bye-bye. This has been a Team Coco production.