Why Won't You Date Me? with Nicole Byer - Hurt People Hurt People (w/ Kenny DeForest)

Episode Date: October 13, 2023

Comedian Kenny DeForest joins Nicole to explore how an amicable split after 8.5 years can transform someone from a 'fuckboy' to a 'boyfriend without a girlfriend'. He shares how being an only child can lead to challenges entering the dating pool, the extremely addictive nature of dating apps, and tackles the ethical dilemma many comedians face: should you give your ex a heads-up if they're the subject of your latest stand-up routine?Check out Kenny's new special, Don't You Know Who I Am?, now streaming on YouTube. Submit a dirty message to Nicole! Write it to [e-mail] for a chance to have it read on air. Follow Nicole Byer: See Nicole on tour! Get tickets at linktr.ee/nicolebyerwastakenTwitter: @nicolebyerInstagram: @nicolebyerMerch: podswag.com/datemeNicole's book: indiebound.org/book/9781524850746

Why won't you date me? Why won't you date me? Why won't you date me? Please tell me why! Ooh, baby, welcome to another episode of Why Won't You Date Me, a podcast where me, Nicole Byer, is just fucking exploring love with people because there's no answers to why I'm single. I've been searching, who fucking knows?

My guest today is a hilarious stand-up comedian who you've seen perform on Late Night with Seth Meyers and The Late Late Show with James Cordon. His new special, Don't You Know Who I Am, is now streaming on YouTube. and who you've seen perform on Late Night with Seth Meyers and The Late Late Show with James Cordon. His new special, Don't You Know Who I Am, is now streaming on YouTube. And I know this person. They're great. It's Kenny DeForest. Do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, bow, bow, bow, bow, bow. Woo! Thank you for that saucy intro.

Hi, Kenny. Hello. How are you? I dropped something. Who cares? What did you drop? It's so good to be here. James Cordon.

I like that. James Cordon Blue. So fancy. You know, sometimes you got to just surprise yourself and say words in a fun way and have a nice time. I like having a nice time. I'm doing really good. Thank you for having me.

I'm excited to be here. The audience can't hear it, but the room you're in is very fun. And it's putting me in a fun room. I like looking at your wallpaper. Thank you. I have talked about it on this podcast, but I will tell you, it took me like 16 hours to put up this peel and stick wallpaper myself. There's gaps in it. I did bad I lost a a plate that goes over the plug I don't know where the fuck I put it I don't know why I took it off you know life is life is good

life is good and sometimes you have to fail so that you can try again and succeed just like the great late Aaliyah said dust yourself off to try again try again try again Yes, just like the great late Aaliyah said, dust yourself off the dragon, dragon, dragon. Yeah, she did say that. I have a question.

So you grew up in Springfield, Missouri, which is the same town as Brad Pitt. Is Brad Pitt like a hometown hero? Do people talk about him? Do people talk about him? Do people like know him? People definitely know that he's from there. His brother still lives there and kind of looks like him, but sells office supplies. So it's kind of funny to like,

and also his name is Doug, which like is kind of the name you would make up if you were creating a brother of Brad Pitt. You'd be like, Doug Pitt sells copiers. It's what he does. He's a very nice man. He's a local business leader. But we are very proud of Brad Pitt being from there.

He also went to my high school, so I have literally no shot of being the most famous person from not only my hometown, but my high school. Yeah, it's a bummer. Listen, life isn't done done you still have life to live you could be more famous than brad pitt theoretically because uh the world hasn't ended yet that's a good point i have about 15 sexiest man of the year awards to so i gotta get going here you gotta get you gotta get it going you gotta get started come on come i once was like i was talking to my dad this is so long ago and i was like i want to be the most famous person from our town he's like not gonna happen because no sean moreno's in the nfl and i was like

okay cool uh we had a high someone from my high school no sean moreno went to the nfl i don't know if he's still in the nfl he's not and guess what you're more famous than no sean moreno who knows i don't know maybe in some circles but maybe in others i don't know i know i know sean i know sean you more you moreno famous i know sean that for sure it's also such a weird thought to be like who's gonna be more famous wait kenny you're an only child what the fuck was that like i'm a weird dude man is it i don't know i used to like sing to myself like i would just bust in a song um here's okay here's the most uh cursed image i would play catch with myself in the yard. Oh, no.

Yeah. So would you throw the ball and then run after the ball and be like, got it? Yeah, I would throw a football as high and deep as I could and I would sprint down the street and I would catch it

and all the neighbors would look out the window and say, look at that poor, lonely boy. That lonely boy needs a brother or sister or sibling. Just something. Just somebody. So he stops singing opera in the yard and bothering all of our quiet families. Were you like a bother in the neighborhood?

Did you go be like, can so-and-so come out and play? What are you guys doing? I was obsessively finding people to play with. Yeah, I would show up. Also, ADHD, hyper little kid. I'm like, you know, like, I knocked on your door like, da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da. It wasn't even like a calm, like, you know, knock-knock.

It was like, ka-ka-ka-ka-ka-ka-ka-ka-ka-ka. Can I also come out and play? What about Will? Let's play anything. I'll do anything at all. I'll do any game at all. I'll be the bad guy. I'll be the good guy. You can put me in a hole and Let's play anything. I'll do anything at all. I'll do any game at all. I'll be the bad guy. I'll be the good guy.

You can put me in a hole and put dirt on me. I'll do anything you want. Please just speak to me. Did you watch The Curious Case of Natalia Grace? No. It's a documentary on Max, and it's about a little person who was adopted, and then the family was like,

she's not a little person who's a child she's a little person who's an adult and then they like got her an apartment to live by herself because they were like this adult can't live with our kids and then everyone in this like community she lived in was like she was so fucking annoying this adult was knocking on the door asking to play with our kids and i was like doesn't sound like an adult that sounds like a fucking kid who's lonely yeah it's an insane documentary you have to watch i heard about this story i will absolutely watch it i remember the story when it came out and i was like are they certain it's an adult i mean like that's a huge i don't i think she was a child i think she was slightly older than

what they thought but she was definitely a child. And she's from Ukraine, and now she has like, she has like a black stepdad, so now she's got like a black scent and is from Ukraine, and it's wild to listen to. That's fantastic. You gotta watch it. Okay, Kenny, I have a question about love.

Do you remember your first girlfriend? Yeah. Were you like a ladies man in school? No, I was a nervous weirdo that would wring my hands like little towels anytime girls were around because I was so nervous. I'd sweat and stutter and I'd lick my braces and prepare. And I would break into an accent such as this. You know, I was always like really nervous around girls um in middle school and high school but my first girlfriend uh here's how long it took me

we started having crushes on each other in seventh grade and we did not date until our senior year of high school uh it took me six years to get a girl that i knew to like me to be my girlfriend. So, and you know what, actually, you know what, let's back it up. My first actual girlfriend was in seventh grade, but then she said she would be my girlfriend. I think I asked her on the phone or I left a note in her locker. I might be conflating two stories, but then speaking to her made me so nervous that i never went to her locker i never talked for two weeks i didn't speak to her and then she said it doesn't really feel like you're my boyfriend so i had a two-week relationship where no words were exchanged um so that was my first girlfriend do you remember why you didn't want to speak to her and like why you avoided her? Ah,

man, girls just scared me so much. I, there was like a very deep, uh, fear of rejection and humiliation. I was always just convinced that I would be like, I like you. And they'd be like,

you're a bad guy. We all talk about it. We want you dead. But she, she agreed to be your girlfriend. So that wouldn't happen. I guess it's hard to, to like, uh, You did. But she agreed to be your girlfriend. Correct. So that wouldn't happen. I guess it's hard to, like, negative self-talk.

It's hard to, like, overcome it and be like, no, no, this person actually does like me. Yeah. I think everyone hates me. Yeah. That's a tough space to live in. It is. It's hard. It's so hard. I'm so tired.

I mean, it is exhausting being like, does this person hate me? I find myself to be a people pleaser sometimes, a lot of times. But it's not so they don't hate me. I'm just like, I just want everyone to have a nice time and be happy. But the girl that you dated your senior year, how long did you guys date? One year. Okay. We did it for all of our senior year and i was the captain of the basketball

team and she was the cheerleader and we were just living that nice that nice storybook just a fun 90s rom-com we were having a nice dawson's creek time were you like homecoming king and queen and shit no uh no we were not i was nominated for lpa king though ladies pay all see this is what's hilarious of me thinking everyone hates me there was literally a mountain of evidence that i was well liked and popular but uh you could not have told me that and i do think maybe to your question about why i didn't speak to my seventh grade girlfriend the only child thing is probably part of it. Like I had no practice speaking to girls that weren't my mother. I had no sister.

I didn't have siblings that had friends over. So I just had no experience with it whatsoever. And so I just didn't know what to do. I just knew girls liked different things, but I didn't know what those were. So I was like, I don't know. You want to play Transformers? That's kind of funny that nobody was like,

just ask them what they like. Right. You just nobody was like, just ask them what they like. Right. Just have a conversation. Just ask them what they like. Do you remember your first play date? I don't. So I wasn't an only child. That's why I have so many questions about it.

I truly don't understand not having someone in the house to be like, hey, wake up and fucking play with me. I could see you saying it exactly like that. And I would be so excited. I would have been your best friend. I would have been like, I'll fucking play with you right fucking now. Let's fucking go.

I mean, it truly wasn't far off. I would go into my sister's room all the time and she'd be like, can I have privacy? And I'm like, get privacy when you move out. I was just in everybody's business. But was being an only child, was it like lonely or no? Yeah, it could be. My parents were very pro me having sleepovers and having friends over. They really tried to be accommodating in that way because they didn't want me to be a little weirdo.

Mm-hmm. I remember to answer the first playdate question question I remember I mean I was in kindergarten or first grade and there was a kid on the bus that I had a conversation with and I saw where he lived like he got off the bus and I saw what house he went in and I asked my mom I said can I go ask Austin Barkley to play actually I think I asked her to call his house

and she was like you have to do it so I went over there and gave that really hyper knock knock knock and then um his mom answered the door and i my memory is insane that i actually remember this but he came to the door and he was playing with one of those uh toy vacuum cleaners with a little color balls bounce around as when he rolled across the floor and uh he was like yeah i'll play with you and i was like, yeah, I'll play with you. And I was like, let's fucking go. And we were like best friends until he moved to a new school district. Oh, no.

But honestly, that's like a nice memory. I'm glad that you remember that. I wonder if he's thinking about that right now. He's like, oh, man, I love that vacuum. Then my new best friend came over and we vacuumed together. So, okay, your first relationship was senior year of high school what's like your first real relationship where you're like oh this is like a serious thing and i'm gonna bring them home to my parents uh or or you're just like it's a serious thing probably the high school the high school girlfriend that was like uh even though it's a

high school relationship at the time it felt very very serious. And you got to keep in mind that I grew up in the Bible belt. So like you legitimately start being like, well, I guess it's time to settle down. I'm 18 after all, probably time to put a ring, put a ring on it so we can start, start a family. And I don't, I don't want to want to have a geriatric pregnancy at 21. And so that one was probably my first. And then to be honest, I had a college girlfriend. That was great. She was really nice.

We dated for a year. But I didn't want to be in a relationship. I just wanted to be single for a long time. I dated a girl in Chicago for a year. That was really cool and fun. She was, she's a great girl. We're still friends. But then, yeah, I think once I started comedy in particular, I was like, I'm not going to put a woman through dating an open mic comedian. So, you know, like I was just like, this isn't, there's no other than other comedians. There's no woman on this planet that wants anything to do with this.

She thinks she does. She doesn't. And so, yeah, the high school girlfriend was very serious. And then after that, it was just kind of a serious of kind of like just dating, having fun, but not really serious. Yeah. Do you currently have and have you had chuckle fuckers? I ask all comedians this because I feel like men or male-identifying people have the most chuckle fuckers.

Yeah, well, it's interesting. I feel like, and I have permission to be vague about this, but as you know, I dated a friend of yours for a long time and uh it was you know a very long relationship and i i actually feel like in some ways uh i've evolved past like the vibe that i put out now like a girl might see my act and then and be like oh i want to fuck that guy but then like i don't i used to have a real fuck boy vibe and i had a great time when i first started comedy it was great and everybody

was on the same page but I think like I'm actually working a bit about this right now where I'm like not so much single as I'm a boyfriend

without a girlfriend because I was with someone for so long like I just you know I'm gonna listen to you talk about your day

I'm gonna be like you don't your co-worker said what to you you don't you know and I'm going to be like, you don't, your co-worker said what to you? You don't, you know, and I'm going to stroke your hair and kiss your forehead. And that's not one night stand material. You know what I mean? Uh-huh.

No, that makes sense. Also, I do feel like some people don't grow out of it. You know, like being a fuck boy, fucking whoever. And then some people do. Like I was in Home Goods the other day and I was like, should I buy pumpkins and decorate my house for the other day and i was like should i buy pumpkins and decorate my house for the fall and i was like who is she what are you doing her to get to my mother it just it flips but you know i think part of it too is like and i and i

have by the way i i have had some i've had some fun and like definitely being a male comedian is silly like you know i i could i i can check my ds at any time, and if I've just been in a city, there's a good chance somebody's at least going to say, great show, and I've actually learned that that is flirting. I didn't realize that. I used to always just reply to that and be like, thank you. I didn't realize that. Of course, if you're DMing me, it's probably some flirtation. You're probably not just telling me, good show.

Trying to smash. And I'm not painting myself as a saint here. I've had a nice time. You know what I mean? But yeah, I don't know. I just think my vibe has shifted. I guess to answer your question more succinctly, earlier in my career, it was more so. Because I was kind of like a party boy mess.

I kind of like, I had the vibe of a guy that you might want to be with for one night, but probably not much longer than that. And then now I've done a lot of work on myself. And I think, you know, I'm in my late thirties too. So a lot of the women that are interested are probably like closer to my age and like, kind of like, are you, are you the one that takes me off Tinder? You know, I think everyone, all the women I talk to now are very tired. Yeah.

I mean, I'm fully exhausted. Are you on the apps currently? No, I did when I first got single and I just forgot how exhausting it is. And it takes so much of your focus because it's addicting. Swiping is more addicting than any social media I've ever been a part of in my life because it's just like an endless parade of faces that might want to hook up with you

or might, you know, and it's like so addicting. You're just like, ah, is it you, is it you, is it you, is it you? And then you're like looking at your profile. You're like, maybe my profile is wrong. And you're editing your profile, and then you're like ah is it you is it you is it you is it you and then you're like looking at your profile like maybe my profile is wrong and you're editing your profile and then you're typing and then deleting and then typing messages and then i don't want to say it that way and the next thing you know like an hour and a half has passed and it's like i should probably focus on um getting my career where i want it to be and not um tender yeah i matched with this guy and he was like let's go out and then i was in a weird place so i was

like let's not go out and then i was like you know what let's go out and he was like okay let's do it and then i didn't hear from him for a little bit and then he was like oh no i got the flu and i said okay and then he was like but we will reschedule and i said all right and then didn't hear from him for a while then he was like oh no my friend's not doing too good i gotta help him out and i was like okay and i still haven't heard from him for a while and i'm like i hope he reaches out again and he's like oh no a bomb went off in my house i gotta rebuild my home and i kind of hope it never stops and every time he reaches out it's just like heightened to the point where he's like i'm bugs bunny and i can't get out of the cartoon i took a wrong turn it up a quickie i can't come pick you up at eight yeah that's insane i'm sorry but also probably for the best and that's at least a little

entertaining yeah i guess dating is honestly a hellscape i wish it on nobody um so okay when you were you the one who broke up with your high school girlfriend and your college girlfriend my high school girlfriend um cheated on me i'm very that was very scarring and i feel dumb talking about this now at 37 because i have if anyone that knows me is listening to this i promise you it is it is water under the bridge but in the context of this conversation it was like obviously like catastrophic at the time um and then uh and then because hurt people hurt people i went on to then cheat on my college girlfriend ah okay okay yeah, yeah, yeah. But I learned from that experience that I'm bad. I can't cheat. The Catholic guilt that lingers in my soul is too strong, and I confess.

Even though I cheated in Chicago, Illinois, with a woman she never would ever meet or talk to, but I just had to tell her. I had to let her know and clear my conscience. I don't think I could cheat because I talk so much and I tell people all my business. I would definitely be like, what I did last night was bad. But also, if I was cheating with someone,

I'd be like, I do have a partner and I'm being bad. I'm just not good at shutting up. Yeah, I'm the same. We have similar brains. We've talked about this before. I feel like ADD is, like, ADD people are terrible liars because it's like whatever comes up comes out. It's like whatever's on my mind, I'm letting you know.

And I think I have this poker face. I just don't because I'm just, like, pinging around in my brain and my face is adjusting to every thought. It's not good. Yeah, it's terrible. I once went to this wine tasting and I didn't really love the wine person. I thought they were very corny and annoying. And I thought I had a poker face the whole time.

But also I had a couple drinks in me. And everyone after we left was like, Nicole, you are on your worst behavior. You kept rolling your eyes. You were making faces. And I was like, who, me? And like, don't act dumb faces and i was like who me and like don't act dumb and i was like i'm not acting dumb i really thought i had a poker face i have no nothing of the sort true simply just whatever's on my face is on my face and i am telegraphing it yeah there was a comedian one time that i became friends with a friend of mine and my friend who

knew this comedian goes hey why do you hate so and so and i go i don't hate so and so i go why why would he say that he goes because of your face every time he comes around and i was like oh well i guess that makes sense i've outed myself um how do you get over a breakup like how like in your earlier years how did you get over it were you just like in my earlier years unhealthily uh kind of that classic like the only way to get over a woman is to get under another and you know here's the thing i was single for a long time in my 20s kind of by design like i said i you know and honestly part of that's bible belt thinking sorry for a tangent but like in my head i was like well i'm of going to get married one day and have children.

So I should have as much fun as I can right now. I need to get this all out of my system. So I kind of did that. And then I think after this more recent breakup, I thought that's what I would be doing. And that's kind of where I've learned, no, you evolve so much as a person during the duration of this long-term relationship like you know I was in therapy for the first time throughout that relationship I started meditating you know um I got sober and then relapsed and now I'm back back on the wagon um but congrats that shit's really. And I think more people should acknowledge how hard it is to be sober and or choose a different vice. I don't know. I'm a firm believer in like, not everyone can be sober. But if you can be, that's incredible. So congrats and to be clear my big thing is alcohol is the gateway to everything else and you know I'm still allowing myself

to like smoke a little weed if I need to if I'm at a social event and I need to do something but I'm also really trying to like I used to smoke weed all day every day and I'm not doing that and you know maybe one day I'll stop entirely but I agree with you

I think part of what happens when people talk about sobriety is there's like this pressure to be perfectly sober or whatever. But it's like I think more people should be nuanced about it. It's fucking hard. And I was completely, truly 100% sober for several months during pandemic. No weed, no booze. And then I started smoking again. And then after the breakup, I was like, I can drink and I'm single. And how am I going to date?

And I've learned to control it. And then, you know, I can't. I just simply can't. And that is a hard thing to acknowledge. And that's a hard thing to accept. And I feel like a lot of vices should be like an ongoing conversation with either yourself or like a therapist or whatever.

And it's like, well, I'm going to try try this again and then i think also you have to go why do i want to try this again well because you know it's like it's like when you it's like okay it's like um when you get like a psychiatric medication right and and all of a sudden for the first time in your life you're not depressed right and but then six months go by and you start to forget how you used to feel and you go well i'm doing really good i don't need to take my medication and then you stop and then you go whoopsies and then you have to start all over again because and i think it's the same like the more distance you get between yourself and the reason you decided to stop the the you know the disease or whatever you want to call it, your demons, they don't remind you why you quit.

They say they want you to forget and to be like, Oh, it's fine. It's fine. Don't worry. Let's fucking party real quick. Kenny. We have to take a break. Oh, Kenny, we're back that was terrific oh thank you um i i think i've talked i've probably talked

about on this podcast but i in my early 20s i was living in new york and i loved drinking i loved getting shit faced. And then truly on Instagram, I saw this thing that was like people with ADHD like to drink because the people around them start to act like them. They are less inhibited the way that people with ADHD do things like, uh, either compulsively or impulsively. And I was like,

Oh my fucking God. And then the next time I was like, oh my fucking God. And then the next time I was drinking, I like noticed it. I noticed people being more like, oh, saying like da, da, da. And I was like, ah. And then I was like, oh, this is why I like this so much. I just realized this is not a video pocket.

If the audience could see my face, this just like bells are going off in my head. That's insane. And I think you're right. Because I knew ADHD people are prone to substances because we're trying to regulate this just nightmare of pinging thoughts and, you know, just rapid flubber. My brain is flubber. It's the movie Flubber. And it's just you can't grab onto any of it.

But that's insane. And I think you're absolutely right. You know, Instagram University has all the lessons you need. Yeah, and we're also thrill seekers and dopamine deficient. That's the other thing I learned from Instagram. That's what I learned. We're dopamine deficient. So that's why like anything, drugs, alcohol, porn, video games, anything that gives you a dopamine.

Social media. I mean, that's why I had to quit Twitter because I would just sit there for six hours just like trying to think of a tweet. Like I got to think of one. I got to think of a good one. That one sucks. I got to get my dopamine. It's insane. It's just like it's a deranged way to live your life.

But if everyone's drunk, they understand. They understand. They make mistakes. You're not embarrassed. Like, everything, everyone's on your level. And it is,

it is a wild thing to like, live through every day. Yeah, I don't know about you. Every time I wake up, I have so many thoughts in my head

and I'm like, oh my God, I don't know if I can get out of bed. And then I'm like, get out of bed and take your medicine. And then we'll go from there. Yeah, 100%.

Yeah, it's like I have 30 of the best movie ideas I've ever thought of in my life. And I've started writing one of them six years ago. You know, it's like that. It's like, how could I possibly write all of these great movies? You know, and it's just, and yeah, the medicine is a godsend. And it's too bad there's a shortage right now. And I am waiting for open enrollment for health care in New York City. New York, concrete jungle where dreams are made of.

Kenny, I have a question. Yes. What are you looking for in your next relationship? Or do you plan on staying single for a while? I do plan on staying single for a while. Oh, you know what? And this circles back to your last question of how I deal with a breakup. What I'm doing right now is I'm focusing on myself and trying to not need somebody.

I want to. I'm living alone for the first time in my entire life um through therapy i realized some codependency that i've had my entire life and i'd like to really address that and learn to actually be by myself and um you know because i i again i was pursuing comedy so i would always live as cheaply as humanly possible so like i wasn't even really budgeting i was just like my rent is cheap. I make enough money at work. I don't think about money, but that's not enough.

I, you know, I got to like learn how to actually be alone. So I do want that. But then eventually I just want somebody, uh, I need an independent person for sure, because I think an independent person is who really understands how much a comedian is gone like I need you to have your own thing going on your own passions your own dreams uh it can't be a thing where like if I miss your work happy hour you're devastated you know what I mean like so it takes a special kind of person to deal with that because you know people want to show off their partner and everything and like obviously i'm the kind person that will be there when i can but i need someone to be understanding

but i want someone to be uh passionate about music in the same way that i am that's a big one for me um i really love to sit and listen to records and like really like think about lyrics and songs and what they mean and like um that's i'm very passionate that way and also i need an outdoorsy person i want i want someone that will go hiking and camping with me and uh and the hiking can be a little intense like i want to go i want to climb mountains with you know i mean whoever you are out there listening right now wild and you have to be a listener of this podcast yeah you gotta fucking listen to this you gotta like me you to be a listener of this podcast. Yeah, you got to fucking listen to this. You got to like me.

You got to be a fan of me. Boy, oh boy, you lost me with hiking. Oh, damn it. I'm not an outdoors gal. Can't do that. Can't be outside. My whole thing is whatever you see at the top of the mountain, you can look up and you see it just fine from the ground.

That's a very you theory. Are you from the part of Jersey that's like basically like we're coming into New York City all the time? Are you from, because there's like outdoorsy Jersey, but then there's also like, there's like urban city Jersey. I'm from, I guess it's like kind of outdoorsy. I'm from like I guess it's like kind of outdoorsy. I'm from like very suburban Jersey. So it's like if you speed 40 minutes from the city, if you take the train, it's like an hour 15.

Gotcha. But yeah. So you weren't exposed to it when you were younger, right? Like a lot of outdoors. No. Yeah, yeah, yeah. No, I don't. I feel like it might be like a black thing.

Like a lot of black people don't hike. And my mother was like an indoors woman. She loved being inside. She loved air conditioning and heat and amenities. And then my dad, I think he was also like an indoors person. Yeah, I find black people don't like to take a lot of unnecessary risks. I wonder why. Yeah, yeah. Why don't we want to go tramping into the woods by ourselves? I wonder why yeah

why don't we want to go trampsing into the woods by ourselves you know where odd white people live and build their own houses out of found wood yeah I don't know in my half hour special I have a joke about it I was driving in

Ohio and the GPS literally took me into the woods and then there was a dilapidated house that said free watermelon and I was like, this is a trap for black people. This is a trap in the middle

of the fucking woods for us because I truly was like, ooh, free watermelon and then I was like, don't stop, Nicole. No, no, no, no, no. Free watermelon at the bottom of this hole. All you have to do is climb down and grab it.

Just come on in. We want to give it to you. How many long-term relationships have you had? If you're talking longer than a year, just the one. I've never had a long, long-term relationship. I've only had like one relationship. I think I can say that it was a relationship. And it's interesting because like being out of it, I'm like, huh, I thought I was very good at communication.

Turns out the lie detector results are in. That was a lie. I'm very bad at communication for someone who talks as fucking much as I do. I'm not bad at communication for someone who talks as fucking much as I do I'm not good at communication I wonder do you think that might be the people-pleasing part where you're kind of afraid to vocalize what you actually need and want absolutely because I'm like if I tell you what you want that might be in a disagreement with what you need and want so I don't want that so I'll just shut up yeah one of the giant revelations I had in therapy

that I think contributed to um my ex and I really deciding to go separate ways and very amicably at that but one time my therapist goes um what does Kenny want to need and the fact that I was stumped by this question was like alarming I truly had had no answer. I, I like, you would have thought she asked me to, to write Latin. I just was like, um, what do you, what do you mean? I just need and want for her to like me and be happy and pleased. And I don't want to upset anyone. And then, yeah. And then, and then it just occurred to me, like, I think, again, I think we're very similar. We've talked about this a lot.

It's why we're friends. But when you're like a people pleaser, I also think ADHD people tend to know that we're kind of hard to be with. So it's like, I'm always like, I'm like overcompensating for the fact that like, I'm definitely going to forget to get groceries and I'm for sure gonna

do the dishes and like you know so i'm like overcompensating by not needing anything from you ever and um so yeah that's i can relate to that um because you don't want to communicate it sure don't um that is interesting because uh i do think so I like me. I think I'm good. But I tend to think in like romantic relationships, people are just tolerating me, which is like a weird disconnect because it's like, well, if I like me and someone's dating me, a certain amount of time. And then eventually they're going to move on because that's the pattern that has been set in my life. But I do think it's like good to be like, well, what do I need and what do I want? And like if this person goes away, it's not the end of the world. A hundred percent. And, you know, everyone liking you is actually a bad thing. One of my favorite quotes and obviously listeners of this podcast might feel conflicted ways about this person,

but Patrice O'Neill once said, if everybody— I thought you were going to say Joe Rogan, and I was like, I think we all don't like him. Yeah, hit space bar. Stop recording. Get him off this podcast. But, you know, obviously Patrice had stances on women that probably a lot of listeners in this podcast do not appreciate. And I would say that I understand that. But he once said, if everybody likes you, nobody loves you. And I think about that all the time. Because that just kind of means you have no teeth.

You have no stance. You have no POV. Right? Like, you should be alienating some people, especially if you're a public figure. But then also in the world of dating, like you shouldn't want everyone to want to date you because that just means you're not actually revealing your true self, right? And that's what I'm trying to get better about where it's like, no, this is who I am. And if you don't like it, that's fine.

That just, honestly, that's fine that just honestly that's good that i know that let's move on so that's you know something i'm trying to take with me it's hard though it's really hard being your true self because the last person i dated wasn't like super familiar with my comedy or anything but they knew i was a comedian um and i remember like one of our early dates, they had come over and I was like talking about my day. And I said, maybe I've mentioned this on the podcast. I don't know.

But I was like, I'm sorry. I'm sorry this isn't more entertaining to hear, to listen to. And they were like, well, you're not here to entertain me. I want to hear about your day. And I was like, huh. Oh. Oh. to hear about your day. And I was like, huh? Oh, oh, so I don't have to be this person who's on all the time. But then I would get, you know, I'm like, people are moody. I'm a moody person.

And they would say, they would go, are you grumpy right now? And I'm a people pleaser. And as real as I wanted to be, I was was like being grumpy isn't good I want to make you happy so I'd be like no I'm not grumpy and they'd be like well why are you acting like this and I'm like I don't know why I'm acting and then like in hindsight I'm like most of our arguments would have been solved if I had just said I am grumpy I'm grumpy and I need a second thank you for acknowledging that like there has been a change in my behavior um but you know hindsight's 2020 and um i'm i'm alone well you know here's the thing it's a good thing i'm your guest today because i relate to all of

this and um i i the same and I think what I've realized reflecting on the relationship I just got out of is that was my first like real stab at it like I had a couple girlfriends before but you know the girl I dated in Chicago like we already knew I was moving to New York we started dating but like it was like I'm moving to New York in a year let's date till I leave because we've always kind of had a spark and a thing for each other and that'd be fun. And, but like, there was like a expiration date on it. You know what I'm saying? Um, and so of course it didn't, of course there was things that didn't work. This is my first actual attempt at it. You know, like, like anything you have to learn from your experiences and that, that is exactly what you're saying., I'm the king of sitting there with my brow furrowed and my arms crossed.

And what's wrong? Nothing's wrong. Why do you think something's wrong? Is it just everything about me right now? Is that why you're asking me? Leave me alone. I'm just sulking. But it's not because I'm mad.

It's because it's fun to sulk. Like, insane. You know what I mean? Just say it yeah and i think i had this idea that i was like i can't have emotions because i have to be a good partner and that's an insane thing to think but that's i really think i spent a long time with this person going well if they see that like i am moody or like i do get angry about things they're gonna leave and then it's like well you didn't you didn't do those things and

they left anyway so like maybe in your next relationship you try to be fully yourself and fully an actual person and like communicate and i'm reading this book called calling in the one allegedly after seven weeks i'm gonna find the person of my dreams that's what this lady says um and i had to go to michael's and buy supplies and i've made a vision board uh let's go we're doing it but the book was also like uh negativity and like uh like being uh condescending as a means of communication is actually like detrimental and i was like ah okay because you know how you're like oh well you should just know this and then it's like a nasty thing that you're like but you should just know this it's i'm being honest and it's like are you being honest or are you being a dick like does this person need to hear that you think this terrible thing about them

or can you figure out a way to like work around it i don't know relationships are really fucking hard and it was my first one so i guess i shouldn't be so hard on myself yeah it's really hard and it's it's also too it's like as much as you want to not lose yourself in a relationship for yourself you got to think about it too for the other the other person it can be overwhelming like to be with someone who is kind of a doormat which is basically what i realized i was at times can be a lot for them because it's like no dude tell me what you need stop just like chameleoning yourself to make me happy that's overwhelmed you know what i mean like you don't you don't have to just drop your entire life to serve me like that is also a lot for me that's also overwhelming to me i want you to have your

thing going you know what i mean and so mean? And so it's kind of both. It's like that was kind of a lightning. Because, like, of course, I'm not going to do it for me. But for her. For her, I'll have needs. For her. Yeah, yeah. Real quick, we got to take a break.

to take a break. How do you feel about telling jokes about the person that you used to date? Do you think you'll tell them about the jokes or do you think you'll just do them? I'm doing a set about it now and I have run it

all by her. Because I, you know, people think it's weird when you remain friends with your exes, but I think that is so bonkers. If nothing happened other than two people growing apart, why would you? I understand giving yourself time and distance. That's happening right now. Taking some time, taking some distance. But really the idea being to recalibrate our relationship to each other like give give give some time for the pet names to fall out of your brain and for that you know but so you can sort of redefine how you relate to each other but like it's been eight and a half years with this bird

like this is why on earth would i be vindictive or try to burn all that to the ground? I mean, that's crazy to me. This person was the closest person in my life and knows everything about me. Like, why would I not want to maintain that friendship? And so I've run everything by her and she appreciates that. She's even, you know know giving me tags and like been like oh here's another funny thing you can say and i because i find too even just comedically speaking when there's too much venom sometimes the audience doesn't like it they're like oh who's this

angry this person should go to a therapist why are they screaming at us right but like if you if you find a way to do it in a light-hearted way not only are you processing it but the audience can then relate you know what i mean and so and so yes i am talking about it but what's interesting is i barely talked about it when we were together which i think in my next relationship i don't know if i well you have to you have to talk about your life but we never fought though most jokes are about fights we didn't fight very much so i didn't really have a lot of material um yeah i tell jokes about them and there was a time where they were like hey i didn't like that joke we haven't worked it out yet and i was like oh you didn't like that i invited you to show to told a joke about a problem we were having and we haven't fixed it?

Oh, okay. I get it. And the other jokes, they're mostly about me and me, how do you say it? Processing the breakup or whatever. But I do wonder if I should tell them that i tell these jokes i don't know because we're also taking some space yeah yeah i i feel like yeah i don't know it depends on how many people in your group know who you're talking about or the audience right like for me you know this person was in our world and so i'm not worried about the audience knowing

who it is because we were very private but I'm worried about like I don't want mutual friends of ours to see me up there you know what I mean so that's kind of why I took that extra but I think most people probably don't know who you're talking about um so but I mean if you want to maintain

just respect then you can run it by them okay I think I might when I'm ready but I'm taking some space you have to take some space and then I've been trying to swipe on the

fucking app so I know you were like oh take like an hour I'm only on them for like five minutes and then I immediately get disheartened I'm like oh my god will i ever find anybody ever again yeah man but also yeah my my response to that same feeling is just like there's probably only one woman on this app who likes me so i have to swipe until i find her everyone else thinks i'm a hideous monster i have to find the diamond in the rough

um okay i have a question uh who got you into comedy was it your grandpa joe who was a great storyteller wow thank you very much byron allen yes it was uh yeah uh he was, yeah, growing up, he was, my mom's side of the family was super fun. And he would just like tell these stories and he was just the funniest guy. And I think what I noticed was towards the end of his life, I don't remember what the event was. I think it was my grandparents' 50th wedding anniversary or something like that. But a bunch of people came, and everybody's stories were about a time he made them laugh

and how funny he was. And I just noticed, I was like, that is the mark this man left on the world. It wasn't his job, but it was like he was so funny. And it just stuck out to me. Something he said 30 years ago a guy is still like it's the funniest thing I've ever heard in my life and um yeah I think it just made me want to do that and also like you know there was like tension on my mom's side of the

family that was always kind of there that I even as a kid I didn't fully understand and probably still don't but when he would get to telling stories, I would just feel it all melt away. And it was like, and now everything's good and everyone's happy. And so, yeah, I think that was a part of it. And then also probably being cheated on in high school, I was like, oh, I got to do something with this. And honestly, to what we're just talking about, very vindictive. When I first started, when I would talk about my ex and my breakup

and definitely did it in front of her on purpose, which is I shudder to think about. I will scream. I scream myself awake at night thinking about it sometimes. But then now I'm like, look how much he's grown. Look how much he's grown look how much he's grown so that's good i'm glad that you've grown i yeah anytime i talk very poorly about someone on stage it's usually nobody that anybody can figure out um but also cheating on someone in high school so wild i remember i just i don know, I was pimply and weird looking.

And I, like, I didn't fuck nobody in high school. But truly, like, balancing, like, you know, theater and track and field and all my classes. Like, how would I? And then have a boyfriend and then cheat on that boyfriend. I mean, this bitch, she had it all together. She had time. That's hilarious. Yeah, well, and also, it's like...

I mean, if you really think about it... That's funny that you're jealous of her. It's a lot of shit. She got two high school boys that wanted to fuck her? That's incredible. That's wild. I wouldn't give anything for that. Even now, two high school boys come to my guest house.

That's all I want, as long as they're 18. I'm kidding! Yeah, well, it's... And it's also funny because it's like to say cheated on is ridiculous. We were 18 years old. Like, who gives a shit? We should have been banging each other. We all should have been banging each other. You should all be exploring your sexuality.

This idea that like, you're mine at 18 is ridiculous. obviously there's like you want to be safe and feelings are involved and all of that but like that that's why i said it earlier when i even brought this up like i feel ridiculous bringing this up now because i'm a 37 year old man you know what i mean but like um yeah and it's like i remember talking about like we'll go to college together and we'll get a house and we'll'll live together, and then we'll get married. And I, of course, she was like, ah, I gotta fuck that guy. This guy's too much. I can't do this.

I gotta go fuck Todd behind the bleachers. Yeah. That's very funny to put that pressure on yourself in high school. But, like, I feel like society puts that pressure on you from the time you like go through puberty they're like all right find someone to love you you better get married you gotta have kids and I don't think I want to get married anymore I think I just want like a partner I don't think I need the piece of paper unless you know we got to get on somebody's health insurance or something. And then I'm like, kids, yuck. I hung this wallpaper for 16 hours.

I don't want some little gremlin with their grubby little fingers touching it. Absolutely. Yeah, I don't know about the whole marriage thing too. I was engaged because I thought that's what you were supposed to do. And then we just never got married because it was like, do you want to plan a wedding? No. Do you want to plan a wedding?

No. And then when we realized we'd grown apart, we were like, wow, we can just walk away, which is why we're still friends. Because there was no lawyers. There was no arbitration. There was none of that shit. It was just like, okay, we're different people now bye bye and that was so so much i'm like so grateful because i have a friend going through a divorce

and seeing that versus what i just went through i'm like dog y'all are never gonna talk again in any sort of kind terms ever after this based on what i'm seeing and i've already seen my ex multiple times and it's been really nice because there was no fighting of any kind. You know what I mean? It's, yeah, I don't know about all that. I don't know about that piece of paper. Something changes. Yeah, for whatever reason, I feel like you get that piece of paper.

And then it's just like, well, now it's of a different importance. And I guess it's also like when you put a label on a relationship, that sometimes makes people go crazy because they're like, well, now it means something else. And also now legally, now legally your debt is my debt. Now legally. Yeah, which is wild. If you're committing a crime that I don't know about, I'm potentially implicated, right? If you're my girlfriend and you're defrauding the government, I'm not on the hook for that.

But if you're my wife and you're committing tax fraud, even if I not on the hook for that but if you're my wife and you're committing tax fraud even if i don't know about it i'm implicated so i think it's like that it's like that it's that that it elevates everything you know what i mean yeah that's wild i don't want to be married to anyone who does tax. Like I just, the IRS seems so scary. They only communicate via letters. That's, that's, that's power.

That's unhinged. Yeah. If somebody was doing that through a dating context, that might be romantic, but when it's a threat, vaguely threatening, it's like even scarier. You're like,

Oh my God, you, you paid for postage. Um, we do have to wrap this up but my assistant lindsey is incredible and she found the executive summary on your resume from 2014 uh she did write not relevant just made me laugh mr deforest is an upbeat charismatic person who aims to create an environment of positivity and creativity wherever he is. A hard worker.

Mr. DeForest is the sort of person who is quick to make friends. A man often referred to by older women as a card. He enjoys the outdoors, exercise, friendly chatter, and helping others. He hates cynicism and defeatist attitudes. He is sure to be an asset to any team he joins. Oh, God. Do i still have a link i think you do and i think that's where lindsey may have found it um that is incredible and i love it so should i just copy and paste that into my dating profile honestly i was gonna say

you should put this on your tinder or your hinge or whatever it's so funny oh my god a card a card he's a card holy shnikes i've been i've oh i'm crawling in my skin right now like lincoln park sorry about it um okay i asked all my guests this would you date me yes yes i would yes i would thank you kenny okay we didn't talk about it but you do have a special that is currently streaming on youtube um do you want to tell people a little bit about it before we go yes it's called don't you know who i am uh which is a play on the closing bit so if you want to know what that means, you have to watch it. Oh, boo. Yeah, it's basically my, to be quick about it,

I played basketball growing up. I was very serious about it. And I kind of didn't realize I was on to something, but I realized that a lot of athletes, especially boys, really struggle after sports is over because no one helps us deal with that. And you're very intense and you're losing an identity and you're losing so much more than just a game, right? And I lost a friend during COVID to an overdose. And I was like, I felt like it never never after basketball ended. I feel like that's

kind of where the problems really started to spiral. And I started talking to other athletes that I knew and everybody was like, yes, absolutely. If not them, someone they knew. And so I was like, let me just, I'm a comedian. Let me like put together a special that kind of chronicles my journey with it. Um, And so that's kind of what it is. So it's like basketball, my sort of struggle afterwards, and then a redemption story at the end. And then there's an audio-only album version that I released with Blonde Medicine that has 20-plus bonus minutes,

and it's the first 20 minutes of the album. And there's actually me talking about my relationship a little bit in there. So if you watch the special and you want more, check out the album. And you can just listen to the first 22 minutes. And then that'll be all the bonus stuff. Yay. And where can people find that?

The special's on my YouTube. It's free. There's a really cool intro outro that I'm very proud of. And the song is by Charlie Crockett, which I contractually must say, as per my contract to use the song in my special. And also, he's the best, and that song rules. And so that's on my YouTube. And then anywhere you get albums, Bandcamp, Spotify, et cetera, Apple Music, all that stuff hell yeah uh if you like this episode of why

won't you date me you can like it you can rate it you can subscribe it uh stew it oh my god apple podcast whatever five stars i don't know i've done this podcast for so long i love when i fuck up the outro um but if you write me something nasty hitting on me i will read it out loud if you write it to why won't you date me podcast at gmail.com mars has to go through it no dick pics okay so this is a sonic themed nasty message hi nicole hi mars see that's nice to say hello to mars nicole i want to plow your puss while we dress up as sonic characters you'll of course be sonic i'm gonna dress up as knuckles so i can fist your vajayjay with extra force. Meanwhile, Sonic's voice actor, Ben Schwartz, will be watching us, but he's my friend and he'll be using the voice to cheer you on. I'm out. Oh no. And after I have my way with you,

I'll use my tail-shaped vibrator to add extra stimulation to your clit and I'll ramp it up faster and faster until you turn into a rolling speedball like Sonic and crash through the walls going on as you roll towards the sunset in bliss. Honestly, I only sent this message because Jordan from Best Friends made you so upset suggesting that you have sex to a Sonic movie. Sorry, not sorry about it. Okay, here's why I got upset. Sonic is a child.

So it shouldn't, nobody should be, Sonic, he's a child. Okay, bye-bye. Why Won't You Date Me with Nicole Byer is produced by me, Mars. It's executive produced by Adam Sachs, Nick Liao, and Jeff Ross at Team Coco. With talent bookings by Paula Davis, Gina Batista, and Maddie Ogden. Got a question, crazy dating story, or a dirty message for Nicole? Write it to whywontyoudatemepodcast at gmail.com for a chance to have it featured on a future show.

Thanks for listening. We'll see you next week with a brand new episode. This has been a Team Coco production.