Why Won't You Date Me? with Nicole Byer - Relationship Manipulation Tactics (w/ E.R. Fightmaster)

Episode Date: October 20, 2023

Comedian E.R. Fightmaster (Shrill, Grey's Anatomy) joins Nicole to discuss the benefits of keeping romantic partnerships out of the public eye, how dating reality TV shows are normalizing abuse in relationships, and the common manipulation tactics to watch out for in your love life. Plus, they share horniest they've ever been in their life, and what it's like to write horny music.Check out E.R.'s new EP, VIOLENCE, out today. Submit a dirty message to Nicole! Write it to [e-mail] for a chance to have it read on air. Follow Nicole Byer: See Nicole on tour! Get tickets at linktr.ee/nicolebyerwastakenTwitter: @nicolebyerInstagram: @nicolebyerMerch: podswag.com/datemeNicole's book: indiebound.org/book/9781524850746

Why won't you date me? Why won't you date me? Why won't you date me? Please tell me why! Ooh, baby! Welcome to another episode of Why Won't You Date Me, a podcast where Mina Kohlbauer was trying to figure out why I'm still single, but guess what? It's been a long time. Nobody knows. My guest today is a stand-up comedian, LGBTQ plus activist, writer, and musician. You've seen them

in Shrill and Grey's Anatomy as their first non-binary doctor. Their new five-song EP titled Violence is out today. It's ER, fight master! The way that you've done it, I've never felt like more of a wrestler. I try to give people an intro that excites them and makes them feel good. Yeah, it did. I feel really, I feel strong. Yes, that's what I want. ER, can I just say that you have lovely hair.

It's very lush and coiffed in a way that like the layers are really speaking to me. Thank you so much. I want you to know that you can't see the back right now. Bears are really speaking to me. Thank you so much. I want you to know that you can't see the back right now. And in the back, there's just like a hole where some animals are living. But thank you for saying that about the front.

It feels good. Oh, well, you're welcome. I have an animal, I think, living in my attic. And I think it died because it's all stinky. And it's really upsetting. You know, I don't know how I knew I was going to talk about this today, but that I've been dealing with a singular rat and it really I like feel like I have a roommate. You know what I mean? Like I'm coming home like thinking about where she goes and like I hope she's not in the

living room because I'd love to watch TV. I hope she's not in the living room because I'd love to watch TV. Like, I hope she's not in the kitchen because I plan on cooking. Like, she's a full person to me now. And it's fucking awful. Have you named this rat? Um, gosh, I really probably should, but I don't want her to feel like that comfortable.

I get it. I fully get it. In my apartment in New York, one of my first ones, we had a mouse that lived in our oven. And you'd be watching TV and the mouse would just be like, we don't know what the mouse was doing. But then once like we started feeding it blueberries because it didn't like anything that we put in the rat traps. And then I think the blueberries indicated that we were friendly

because then the mouse would sit on the couch and watch TV with us and we wouldn't notice until you, like, looked down and you'd be like, Beau, get away! And it would, like, pause and stare at us and you'd be like, no, you have to go! It was terrible. But you've been feeding it fresh fruit. Like, you can absolutely see their confusion.

Mine is in the oven, too. It's so fucked up. Well, and the thing that's messed up too is that like i don't want it to die like i want it to leave like a roommate honestly i want it out but i don't want to kill it and i heard the rat trap go off the other day and like this was like a thing that my landlord had put in place but i've had i've done like a glue trap thing before in chicago and i was like i vowed to never do that again and so we did a rat trap and i was like oh this is against all my instincts but whatever and the rat trap went off at night like that big bang and i felt like grief yeah and then i got in the kitchen and this bitch was like

literally just like barbell pressed the rat trap off of her. I'm like, watch out. Look at me. Look at me. Like she knew that I put it there. I was like, oh, I'll remember that. And then ran into the oven. Oh, no, that's not good.

That's not good at all. But also, I'm kind of happy that it didn't die. But it is kind of funny, you know, to this rat trap is now a home gym where it's like, oh, I got to get my strength going. She's built now. Like I if I add blueberries to her diet, she's going to glow. She'll just have muscles and beautiful skin. Can I ask a really boring question? Yes, please. Is your name a stage name or your government name? Fightmaster is my government name. That's fun. And ER is my first two government names.

And so all of it is a real name. And I understand that it sounds like one really aggressive noun. But since it's always been my name, I don't have that reaction to it until I hear it out loud, sometimes from another person who's kind of like, ER Fightmaster? And I'm like, oh, yeah, I guess I could see. I do remember when I got cast on Grey's, although we're on Strike 7,

pretend like I didn't say that, right? I don't know. I remember when I got cast on that medical drama that when it was announced, everyone thought it was a spinoff. They were like, ER Fightmaster joins Grey's Anatomy. And everyone was like, okay, weird. But excited to watch. Whatever this is, I'm down to watch it.

This sounds like fun. This is going to be a blast. Yeah. Just a little old me. I like it. It's a fun name. I wish going to be a blast. Yeah. It was just a little old me. I like it. It's a fun name. I wish I had a fun name. Nicole Byer just sounds plain and boring and stupid.

But ER Fightmaster. I think it's a cool ass name. I actually have thought that about you for a long time where you have one of those names that fits energetically. Oh. You know what I mean? Like Nicole Byer has the right like consonant sounds to it. And there's there's just something about a noun, like a noun-y last name. Like Byer, you are, you are invested.

But I think Michelle Buteau has a name like that where you're like, OK, French ass bitch. Like it's just like these there is something wonderfully grandiose about her name like she is it's nice to have a name that fits and like i'm a warlord she does have a good name and so everything's working out for all of us you know what i mean yeah i feel like with your name you should constantly be like leaving a dojo uh i yeah that's just how i feel yeah um er i have a question are you single are you dating are you just not talking about it because that's also an option i'm in a relationship and not talking about it this this was uh in the last like couple of years i have just entered that phase that i think we all kind of land on at some point

where we're like, no, nobody needs to know that much about my life. I agree. I think you hit an age where you're like, I like home goods. I love a coupon. I like a deal. And I would like to keep a part of my life private. Yeah, it really it happens. It happens fast. But then all of a sudden, you're like, I guess I don't need to post like about my relationship online. And you know, it's just like, other people are gonna post for you. That's that's what I have found about our field. Other people are gonna post for you. So if you want to look, you can find it. You know, it's, it's, but I I'm not gonna give it to you and I think like having my last relationship my last relationship kind of ended as I was like reaching a new level in my career and I was really

grateful for that because in some ways she got to avoid a lot of bullshit and she still got enough bullshit that it wear it on her I'm'm like, okay, great. It's more about, you know, it's like, I'll talk about my relationship as much as I can while protecting the other person. Cause you don't want anybody to feel invested in a way that if it ends, they have something to say about it. You don't have anything to say about it. You don't know what happened. Yeah. I made the mistake of, uh, okay. in December, I posted that I was in a relationship with my friend Dan. And people got inexplicably, well, I guess not inexplicably, I've been doing a podcast about being single for so long, people were so excited. And I was like, Oh, no, what have I done? But it was a very clear indication that when in, not if, but when I do get into like a committed relationship I don't think I'll post about it yeah and I think I will try to keep it uh I mean of course I'll be like yes I'm dating somebody but I think I'm gonna try to keep it semi-private because other people being invested

that I don't know is wild and you've given so much of yourself to them like that's true like you know being an artist that's in any way frontward facing like they do get a lot of aspects of your life so you have to keep certain things precious and it's not even it's not i haven't gone on any podcast since that i'm single but i you know i'm keeping details precious because that is the stuff that you're like oh i just feel so overexposed right now god damn it yeah and that is like a weird thing and a very weird uh line to have for yourself to be like oh i could talk about this but like also i don't know i don't know who i'm gonna date they might be a person who didn't ask to be in the public eye like i i try to not talk about my sister very often because she didn't ask

for this yeah she didn't ask to be talked about she didn't ask for this. She didn't ask to be talked about. She didn't ask for people to like, you know, know details about her life and shit. I think that's smart. And I think my family thought that I was being really like too big for my britches. But when a lot of stuff started happening for me, I had them all go private and they were like, okay, sure. But then I was seeing, first first of all there are some really weird

fucking videos where like they were finding all videos of me when i was like eight and being like how did this become this and then it's a photo of me while i'm hot now and it's like these tiktok videos where i was like i was like well puberty first of all you perverts but it was like, well, puberty, first of all, you perverts. But it was like, oh, I don't want to be scrolling on TikTok and find a video of me and my dad. Like, I don't want that. And so it's, I asked, and I think that people that aren't in our industry think that all, every side of this, like, fame thing is very fun. But it's not fun to have things taken without consent and so it's like i'm okay to upset my family members and look like a diva but i want them to be protected even if they think i'm being a bitch right now i agree that's like the whole ai of it all like uh zelda williams

robin williams's daughter was like i've seen things where people make my dad's voice say something. And I was like, boy, oh boy. I'm sure that seems fun and great. But just think about the family of a person who's deceased. And now you're puppeting that person. That fucking sucks. Yeah, that's really sad. That's really sad. That whole AI thing is just a step too far for me.

I'm doing, I don't remember who posted about it, but it was like one of our friends. I think it was like Ariel Dumas, like, you know, comedy writer. And she had posted about like, whenever somebody posts something positive about AI, I block them. And that's kind of where I am right now.

Like if I see an image that's like, you don't even know that this was created on AI. I'm like, blah. I don't want that., if I see an image that's like, you don't even know that this was created on AI. I'm like, blah. I don't want that. Goodbye. I don't want that. It's like crowdsourcing material to, like,

Frankenstein something together. It's nasty. I don't like it. It's like the worst writer's room. Where everyone's just, like, pitching street jokes and, like,

shit that's just been done. Everyone in the room is pitching, don't talk to me until I've had my coffee. And everyone's like, mmm, I love that. Live, laugh, love. I live, laugh, love that, girly.

It's giving. It's giving. Yes, Deva. It's the live, laugh, love for me. Okay, but I'd watch the show. I would watch the show. So you grew up in Cincinnati, Ohio. was that a fun time it's fun in that in the 90s in cincinnati ohio nothing was happening which was like great like you could we were never home the children were never home we were running around in gangs we were riding our bikes everywhere

like it's absolutely fun and and the I mean my complaint about it now is that there it was just such a um a mellow kind of quiet conservative town where nobody was it wasn't like Trump you know Trumpism now but we just weren't seeing any diversity at all and we weren't seeing any like you know queer people just didn't exist at. And so I think it took me a long time to have any of the language I needed to like, see a future for myself. And so that is my complaint about it. There is there's two sides of the coin. Like I had a nice kind of like, beautiful was able to go anywhere I wanted without getting kidnapped. And I didn't know what life was gonna look like afterwards afterwards. Like, I was just so depressed, actually, as a kid, because I was like, I think something's wrong with me.

And when you can't see yourself, you can't be yourself. So, where are you from? I'm from Middletown, New Jersey, which is, I think, one and the same, where it was like, oh, yeah, you could play all night, play all day, whatever. I never got kidnapped but my mother used to say if i did they'd bring me right back because i talk so much

buddy how much our moms hate us truly in hindsight i was like that's not a nice thing to say to somebody you should be like they'll keep me because i'm valuable thanks mom yeah like growing up and being removed from it i'm like oh yeah it was like a very republican town very conservative now it's like a little bit more trumpy because i guess that's like people's it's really weird i've talked about it before on this podcast but like when people find a thing that they like it becomes their whole personality whether it's like smoking weed or liking trump it's like this is what i Yeah. And that's wild to me. But we're talking about a certain type of person too, because what we're talking about

is people that lack a visible identity or to them a visible identity. Yeah. And so they have to latch on to something. And so it is like, it is like, you know, white guy teenagers that are like, I am the pot leaf. And you're like, okay, Jason, like chill out. But you're right. Like the people that in my life that became super attached to Trump were people that had in their minds, no access to identity communities that are

in their minds being celebrated and cool right now. it's not cool to be um a white woman in your 50s in america right now and this is all in quotations it's not cool and so they attach themselves to trumpism because they're like but my identity is celebrated here like it's just all misplaced people like me i've got my diva girlfriends. We wear our Trump shirts and we go to rallies. Oh, fuck. Rallies. Rules. Oh, I thought you meant the fast food place.

Okay. But it is funny. It's a funny idea that's like we all need and want community. And like that's the community that some people have found. Yeah. Huh. They're having fun. Yeah.

They are. I think. I guess. I don't know. It i don't know it's for me it's a little it's a little overwhelming have you watched uh the ultimatum on netflix which one so okay i've watched all of them i've watched season one the queer ultimatum in season two yeah yeah the queer ultimatum is my jam i watched i watched the straight ultimatum as well i can't remember much much about it except that i was like literally shocked at the people who stayed together like that woman i mean i all i remember is that like a couple getting like married or proposed to in a barn and she had basically outright said like i hate him i hate him i hate him i hate him and then he

proposed and she was like what yes yeah so i remember that but then queer ultimatum was my super bowl i also really fucking loved it i at first was like aussie is not meant for reality television and then later i was like aussie is unhinged and unwell um this also i don't i don't know this person i think that they're on the spectrum that's that's my reading of them i full-ass was like you are the reason we don't think that you're meant for tv is because you're having like a very neurodivergent response to all of this and then them being with someone who was so loud and aggressive i was like oh we're witnessing like this person is actually aussie is like actually losing their mind because neurodivergent

people can't stand being yelled at like that like that's not something that they can handle because the rest of us would be like like i think a neurotypical person would have the ability to look back at her and go can you shut the fuck up? Stop talking. Literally, you're the one talking over me. Don't pretend it's up. But Aussie's like, like we were witnessing abuse. This is interesting because I didn't think of it that way because Tiff was very loud, very aggressive.

But yeah, like thinking back, it's like, oh, Aussie just really shut down and literally packed a backpack and ran away. Yeah, I packed her backpack neatly okay how ironed were those clothes you know what i'm saying very very ironed ironed folded while ironed i think to to put some creases and things it was just so funny to me that the queer ultimatum was so much more interesting the first one the straight one i was like things that are happening are wild and then the second one was so fucking boring i watched the whole thing and i was like so wait

all these people i think who should break up or together yeah what are we doing there was one lady who only talked about business and i was like this seems like an improv scene where her game is i love business oh god yeah i did just watch that one i forgot which one that you're right that's the second the second straight one she only time and then she was with that guy that she did say that she hated yes god they all hate each other that's weird they all all the straight couples hated each other yeah and it reminds me of like stand-up where you know the old jokes of like a guy being like my fucking wife and i'm like boy oh boy why do straight couples seem to like seem to hate each other so much no shit i mean i was watching that with my partner and we were like there was like at one point i looked over and she was like crying

because everyone was being so negative and i was like first of all we we're going to be okay. But I screamed when I realized that the woman who loves business had been talking to her kind of like, you know, beta little white guy, like, you know, Antonio, whatever his name was. Antonio, I think. Yes, it was Antonio. Like he was a decade younger than her. And I was like, she looks great for 45 and blah blah blah and then when I found out she was literally a year older than him I screamed like that was to me deranged that she was talking about like I'm in a different phase of my life than you you're a child you don't understand you're gonna go for women your own age after you leave. And I think that'll be a better fit for you a year apart.

That's, I honestly didn't realize that. That is very, very wild. Psychotic. Very psychotic. And then I loved when Alex was like, I don't think you respect him. And she's like, when did I say that? When did I say that? And he's like, well, stop going down that route.

It's just how I'm interpreting it. And she's like, maybe you should stop interpreting. And I and i was like this is funny you don't understand how opinions work you do all this business but you don't understand opinions i think alex is like a very stereotypical like a bad guy it but bad guy in that kind of like pathetic quiet way where they're like constantly manipulating but they're not doing anything so agree it's like covert right like it's all covert behavior but i she was she did say that she didn't respect him and and she said even said she said she didn't respect him in such an obvious way that i was like oh it's a really bad look for you to be lying this hard. Yes. Because we can all watch back.

Like, we can all watch every episode back, including Antonio. And I think when Antonio proposed to her at the very end, I think he was not full of joy. I think you could tell that he knew that she'd been shit-talking him the whole time. They were all very sad. And then the little, the southern girl who was with the big potato man. I call him a potato because he never smiled. He was just so sad. And he was like, I'm full of secrets. And I was like, maybe you shouldn't be on television. Maybe you should go to therapy.

I thought that his secret was going to be that he was gay. I also thought that was the secret because it was really eating him up and he spent a lot of time being like my mom drove a truck and i was like is this it uh-huh and then i thought that he was another guy that had tricked us and was dressed up as that guy like when you saw him in the beginning i was like oh there's a harmless potato boy like you're completely right that's a harmless potato boy but the ones that you think are harmless are often the ones that are so poorly behaved it's like all these men are growing up in a society where they're like, I feel like something's happening behind the scenes where they're all given one of four personality types and only one of them is not like overtly abusive. Yes, I agree.

Because there was one episode where they got into a fight and he kept her up till 3 a.m. talking about it. And I was like like that's abuse not letting someone sleep and like continuously arguing is a like go to sleep and talk about it in the morning when you both slept well and then i think he hoovered her like he pulled her right back in with the it was con there was like this constant dangling of the carrot of i have a big secret i have a big secret. I have a big secret. Yes. And so he could be as poorly behaved and as abusive as he wanted to

while he was like, in my mind, honestly, like formulating what this big secret was going to be. And then when she was like, you know, I can leave you. I want you to know that I don't have to be here. He was like, well, would you leave me if you knew about this? I've bruised my own arms. Yep. And I was so I mean, listen, this is not like the the most politically correct stance to take, because I've dealt with self-harm.

I understand how debilitating it is. Using it to manipulate other people is never fucking okay. And so you talking about it as like a way to win somebody back, it immediately puts it in question for me because then it's not about, you know, you having a bad like shame response or you having a bad reflexive system to your own behavior. It's you being like, well, will you leave me if I punch my own eyes I don't think so like it's it's you actually abusing them and once you tell up somebody that you're you're self-harming with the intent of keeping them around part of like punching part of men punching themselves in front of women or punching walls next to them is to let that woman know that they could be abused

like I'm out of control right I'm punching a wall next to your head i'm punching myself you could be next well he does literally say at one point he was like i'm not allowed to use my trauma to explain myself and i was like i don't i i don't think so i don't i think i think your trauma can i think you could very calmly say to someone oh i really didn't like that because it reminded me of x y and z i don't think you scream at calmly say to someone, ooh, I really didn't like that because it reminded me of X, Y, and Z. I don't think you scream at them and then break a glass. And it was just so wild. I was like, I don't... Some of these reality shows, I love dating reality shows,

but I'm like, some of them get too much into like abuse-y territory where there's no therapist. There's no one to be like, hey, this was bad. I completely agree. I think that the producers are actually at this point because we've seen so much abuse. And so I think they're not bringing on therapists for a reason

because they know that it will slow down the plot line. But I'm not asking them to slow down the plot line. Okay, like these people signed up for this reality show and all of America wants to watch spousal abuse. That's literally fine. But you as a show, those producers have it on their conscience. If the series ends and we don't ever discuss what behavior was unacceptable, it's unacceptable that he broke that glass.

And for us not to talk about it is fucking insane. It's unacceptable when somebody gets shoved. It's unacceptable when somebody gets shoved it's unacceptable when somebody's yelling it's unacceptable it's unacceptable i don't keep filming i don't care just tell the audience afterwards so that you're giving somebody at the at home who's watching this if they're watching it with their abusive boyfriend in the room and they see it on tv and they're both seeing themselves and no one ever goes that was bad then it's actually being super normalized. I agree. Cause I feel like at the reunion,

it should have been like, why did you break that glass? Why did you keep her up till three AM talking about this? Why did you say X, Y, and Z? Like I, yeah,

I, I agree. I think there should be more accountability and it is normalizing abuse and it's a normal, it's normalizing bad behavior. But that's what I like. That's what I do actually appreciate about like TikTok is you can go. And because right now I'm watching Love is Blind and there was there's like this particular instance where this guy is like, you know, every other girl would have let me do that or every other girl would be happy about it. Every other girl would have let me do that.

Or every other girl would be happy about it. And it's this TikTok person like immediately duetted it and showed us this term called like using the invisible army, which is a mode of manipulation, which is how we abuse our partners, which is I never have to state any opinion that I have. I use my invisible army to state their opinions and make you feel isolated and stupid. And I was like, oh, that's genius. state their opinions and make you feel isolated and stupid. And I was like, oh, that's genius. If there was like just like a little bar, remember when on MTV, when the songs would come up, when they were playing like underneath? I want that. But I want like, hey, this is what this is. Uh-huh. This is exactly what this is. That would be honestly great. And then we could all learn. And we could keep watching and then have to interrupt anything.

Nothing. Didn't have to run to TikTok to be like, was this okay? Okay, ER, real quick, we have to take a break. Bye-bye. Be-bop, boo-bop, hello, we're back. Okay, do you remember your first, uh, like crush or like your first love? Like how hardcore? Like first, first? The first where you're like, I feel it in my bones. I remember, um, I, yeah, I remember seeing my first, became my first partner, but my first girlfriend, I remember seeing her wearing like athletic tights, like the ones that go underneath of basketball shorts.

And she had just like adjusted her shorts so that you could see the tights around her legs. And I was like 14 at the time. And I was like. the tights around her legs. And I was like 14 at the time. And I was like, but you know, when you're a kid, it's always those like really small things. Like now it takes so much more because like, you know, our brains are old and we are like been pornized. But at that moment, I was like, there's something so unbelievable about the spandex on the thigh. And I didn't know what was happening, but I was the horniest I've ever been in my life. I love that.

I love that so much. It's kind of like an Amish person showing an ankle, and they're like, ooh, an ankle. What is that? It is true, though. When you're not supposed to be Santa, it's so much better, unfortunately. And then they became your first partner.

When was this? We dated from the time I was was 14 we went to college together so we we went we were two like two years into college and then i switched to depaul but it was like 14 to 19 as with this person oh wow those are some real formative years together well and we were both like at the time we were both going through some real awful family stuff so I you know I talk about her in really glowing terms because I think she was such a steady attachment figure for me during my teenage years and she was such a kind person and it's it's my relationship with her is actually the reason that I'm like, oh, my God, I hope my kids are gay. Because it was so much easier to, I wasn't going through that process of, like, knowing what should come next, right?

So, like, I remember what grade everyone started needing to get fingered in. And then what grade everyone started needing to give blowjobs. And, you know, and then everyone was starting to have sex and I didn't have any of that, um, frameworking. And so we were really doing what made us comfortable and what felt right and what we were excited about all the time. And so now I look back and I was like, we were banging when we were 15, but we didn't even know that. You know what I mean? We were 15. But we didn't even know that.

You know what I mean? We were like, it's hard for kids now to understand how little gay material there was. Like, you know, you just really didn't know what's happening. We knew it needed to be a secret. But still, we knew it was a secret. And we had the adrenaline and hormones of kids that were going to do it anyway. We figured it out. That's nice, though. I feel like all of the awkward teen stuff that you like had each other,

like that's that's nice. And that's kind. Yeah, that's very you're very lucky. I lucked out. I really, really feel that way. And it then, you know, getting into my 20s, I wasn't going, you know, I had the the experimentation that I did that felt stupid was when I was like trying to figure out what kind of like level of relationship I could have with a man that might be interesting to me. It really kind of turned out that like none of it was interesting to me. But that was the experimentation that like my friends were doing in high school and feeling like humiliated about and I was doing that as an adult having already had good sex with somebody who loves me and so it was like I had like a reverse experience in an awesome way what about you who's your first I truly the first relationship I've ever been in was like a year and a half ago uh so i feel like a very like a baby in relationships like i feel very stunted because i'm

in my late 30s i think i think i'm 37 or 38 maybe i'm 40 who knows but i do feel uh stunted in a way where i'm not going to interact with somebody else who's only been in one relationship. Like most people have been in relationships. So yeah, it was just it was very hard. And then when it ended, it was also very hard because it was like, oh, I don't I've never broken up with someone before. I've never had someone who's in my life consistently and then they just go away like that's fucking weird well I'm sure you've answered this a million times on this podcast but you know I guess I've got two questions what are you looking for in a relationship and what you know how you're really. You must be really good at alone time, which I actually think is a skill you have to learn. What makes you so good at alone time?

and loves me and all my weird shit, is kind to me, thinks I'm hot. I think they're hot. That like we have a mutual respect for each other. And hopefully we like the same things. But if we don't, we're open to like, you know, making, not making, but like asking that person to do something that maybe isn't super exciting to them. Also, I like sitting on the couch and just like being together. Like, that is one of my favorite things to do with somebody. And then alone time,

I will say I'm not great at alone time. I'm usually very busy and like working or recording podcasts or touring or doing shows or just like filling my days um but that person was around a lot and now they're not so now I've just I've been trying to get better at alone time and I've been trying to like journal which is one of the most upsetting things because you'll write something down and read it like two months later and be like

oh my god you're so fucking dramatic straight up like reading things back and being like you fucking dork yes like I journaled at some point Straight up like reading things back and being like, you fucking dork. Yes. Yes. Like I journaled at some point. I do it sporadically, but I was journaling.

I guess it was like two years ago or three years ago. And I literally wrote, I saw a butterfly and cried. And I was like, what was happening? Why didn't you write anything else down? It was like May 14th, saw a butterfly and cried. What? Wow. I love that little romantic brain that lives inside of all of us.

We're all like having our... What's that fucking book in the cabins? Like Walden? You know, like our Walden moment? It's not Walden, but we all kind of want to pretend like we're having some kind of isolated, like beautifulorf Emerson no no we're close we're close and that's not it but it is like I'll read back on my diary and I'm either like bitching about something where I'm like you need to chill bitch or it's me being like the leaves have never looked so green. And I'm, I then read it back. I'm like,

you're a dork. Like this. Okay. Chill. Chill. Chill out. It's not that serious, but I will say when things are happening in the moment,

it feels so serious. And you're like, whoa, what was me? And then you, you know, a couple months down the line you gain some clarity and you go okay you were being the most extra that's that that's the beauty of human

experience i i'm like as i get older i'm trying to get really uh conscious about how emotions are coming through me instead of like living in me. Like I'll say, I'll say like I'm dealing with depression or I'm where I'm feeling depressed. But I won't say I am depressed because I'm like, no, it's all passing. Like it's just that I'm feeling a lot of joy. And I'm, you know, but it's it's even in those moments where I like write the dorky thing about, you know, the leaves have never been so green. I do, you do want to manage and, you know, or to pay homage to the moments where you are seeing beauty in that extreme way. So like with little kid brain eyes, because the next page is like this bitch at the bank and both of the extremes are what

is making this life like so fun it is wild i i've been trying to like okay here's you asked about alone time uh i'm in new york right now and i needed picture things and I was like, okay, I could order this on Amazon and get it in two days or I can just leave this apartment and go interact with the world and get it right now and hang my pictures right now. So I was like, all right. So I put on clothes and like left and then went on a lovely little stroll

and, you know, saw some fun dogs and I saw a mom scream at her child and then I found picture things to hang and I was like you know what that was nice that was nice alone time I listened to music um but yeah that's like the the funny thing about life you go from a butterfly made me cry to like well just go out in the world and have a nice time yeah yeah yeah get yourself a coffee, you dumb bitch. Yeah, absolutely. Well, I think it's more than reasonable for you to be able to find that person. That's actually the truth. And I think that you having such clear wants is really, I think people that are in toxic relationships

will tell you that all the things that you listed, you might be asking for too much. are in toxic relationships will tell you that all the things that you listed you might be asking for too much and I can like very confidently tell you that like my partner it is one of those situations where I'm like everything every part of my life is better because she's in it and and we have our own separate identities and we have our own things that we you know we like individually we come together on but it's it's the first time in my life you know outside of my actually my first relationship it's the first time in my life that i've ever felt that kind of like deep good and so i think that it's absolutely attainable it's just hard to find because people are fucking crazy people are crazy and people have their own

bullshit and then sometimes people don't go to therapy or sometimes therapists are bad. And, you know, we all watch TikTok and Instagram videos that are like, like I got lost in this therapist talking about like attachments. And then I was like, oh, this is my attachment. This is what I've been attracting. And then there was this other Instagram that was like,

attachments are bullshit because human relationships are just inherently complicated and you cannot boil them down to singular attachment styles. And I was like, yeah. Damn. Yeah. Well, that's funny because I've been reading about attachment theory recently and I was like, well, I guess where I fall is like disordered attachment where sometimes it's anxious and sometimes it's secure and sometimes I run a lot of distance and it's and when you say that I'm like I'm oh I'm a human being yeah that's literally I mean when I like was reading about the

attachments I was like well I'm definitely anxious anxiously attached but then I was like, well, I'm definitely anxiously attached. But then I was like, no, I also push people away and I do need reassurance. And then I, I think we're all disordered. Yes, we are. Like, I don't think there's anybody who's absolutely, I think there's maybe 0.0% of people who are securely attached. And then even then, I think that's like a lie. Yes. Because, you know, you go through things. Well, and you know that those secure people, like it actually, it's dependent on the relationship, right? Like I can be in a really, I have been in a relationship with somebody who was really good at making me feel small.

And so I was anxiously attached. I've been with someone who's like always meets me where I am. And so I feel very secure. I, but you know, it's like that it's, it's my brain structure, but my brain structure is like every other human being. I'm adjusting to what's in front of me. I'm adjusting to what I'm actually dealing with. Is someone pushing me away? Great, I'm going to be anxious. Yes. And I think that's where the attachments fail to like, talk about. It's like, yeah, you were just adjusting to what you're being given it's like uh tennis

if something's being hit to the left you're gonna do backhand i don't know do you know yeah you are you're gonna go backhand part every time and you better hope that backhand has some practice on it just a little bit of practice so you don't hurt your little wrist you know that that is that is the thing that i find so much now is like you know a lot of this therapy language was just so wonderful and it's given people so much more access like, you know, a lot of this therapy language was just so wonderful and has given people so much more access to parts of themselves that they didn't have language for before is also being dramatized and weaponized and like very ridiculous ways. And we're seeing like, like the word of the year was trauma last year with like 2020s, like Merriam-Webster,

like word of the year, I think was like trauma or maybe that was this year. I can't fucking remember. And I'm like, oh yeah, you know know you are kind of hearing that everywhere and if you're hearing trauma everywhere everyone's talking about their trauma then i think once again we're just talking about being a human being i fucking agree because i do think we all we all do have trauma and trauma your trauma to you might be like, oh, so something bad happened. Like this doesn't seem that terrible, but it was traumatic to you. And I do think people are misusing trauma as just like a human experience. Yes. Or like that was a negative experience for me. I'm like, well, you know, it's there's also a relativity here're like our trauma now is it can be like my mother was not very communicative.

And so that's the trauma where I'm like, y'all, we were getting eaten by lions. OK, so let's be a little, little grateful. Uh huh. Yeah, I yeah, shit could always be worse but like not to negate people's trauma but like i do think we use it in such a strange way yes where it's like my my trauma i mean not to go back to the ultimatum but this man before he revealed his you know big secret was like my mom was a truck driver on the road. And I was like, I understand being neglected,

but also were you neglected or was your mother just gone? I'm sorry, were you neglected or was your mother working? That's like a friend that I hate. Like, oh, you had a single mom and she had a job, bro. Like, and now that's your trauma. I understand that you wish you had more time with her, but maybe it's, maybe the way to frame this argument is that we need a little bit more grace in our framing.

I, if I'm him and I'm trying to do this in a healthy way, I go, okay, I'm a little bit, I feel a little bit anxious in my attachment style because my mom was constantly on the road and I know that she was doing whatever she needed to to provide for me because my dad was not in the picture like you know he had died but uh I do want I need more attention maybe then you can give me but I just need that attention and that is language I'm good with like it because it's putting all the responsibility on me it's me me saying, okay, this 100%, this is my experience, aka my trauma. This is my trauma experience. And it's helped me

learn this about myself. And this is why I'm gonna need this. And this is a boundary that I have. And if that works out for us, that's awesome. And if it doesn't work out for us, I will not blame you for not being able to do that. But I can't be in your life. Yeah, I think that's a very, very adult way to explain things. And that's language that I wish I had in that relationship I was in. I was not good at explaining why I felt things. And I wish I had the language to be like, hey, I don't know why I'm grumpy right now. I might know in a couple minutes.

I might know in an hour. But I'm down to hang out even though I'm feeling grumpy if you are. Oh, I love that. I literally had to say that today. It's tough to admit that you're in a bad mood because you're like, well, I want to be my best self for this person. But it's like, you're not your best self 100% of the time and sometimes you're grumpy and that's okay my language today was look I know I'm being a cunt that's true like I'm about to get my period I know I'm being a cunt like I woke up this morning and I thought about crying you know what I'm saying like it was just one of those mornings where you're like I'm literally not myself like my hormones are making me insane what I'm going to do today is

going to be harmful so I need to take space and the nice part about it was that I'm in a relationship where I literally was able to say all those things and she was like oh Bummer I wanted to hang out today but was like great thanks for letting me know what a relief what a relief that's nice it's nice real quick we gotta take a break can i ask you how did you get into comedy just to change gears a little bit yes um i got into comedy in college i the second city you know the comedy theater the second city came to my town hometown of cincinnati and they did a local show like you know they had written for the city itself and i took one of their workshops while they were running through town and truly the minute i took this improv workshop I was like I was one of those people that's like an instant like I became a freak about it and I took every

workshop that they offered and then I took all the workshops that my local like theater offered and then and that was like a three to four month period and then I transferred schools I transferred schools to go to DePaul so I could keep getting my degree while doing comedy. And I think there was just this, there was that feeling of always having been the funny kid, but not knowing what that looked like. Like, you know, when I don't remember knowing about stand up comedy theaters in Cincinnati in the 90s. I'm sure that they existed. But what, like, that's not on my radar as a kid But what like that's not on my radar as a kid. And improv comedy was not on my radar as a kid. But I was always the funny person in my community.

And so then once I found the outlet, I went super hard. I changed everything. I like that. I like that. Because like comedy theaters and you know, stand up clubs, they do exist. But like, growing up, I had no idea. Nobody was ever like, oh, Nicole, you're kind of funny. Let me take you to like a kid-friendly show or whatever. It was never something that was like accessible to me until I moved to New York and was like, oh, oh, this is a thing I can do. Did you do improv? I did.

I found UCB a couple years after I graduated from school and was like, oh, this is fun. This is what I want to do. Fun. It is fun. It was a good time. And I do think it teaches you so much about life. Like, you know, it's it's it's become kind of a joke that it converts people so hard. But I do think like improv and stand-up they both they teach you how to connect with people in some way or another so I yeah and and enough so that I was able to you know get jobs on tv without having to go to acting school because comedians understand people you know like we can act because we are constantly studying the human experience we're just not doing it in black turtlenecks acting school is funny i did go

to acting school we would have to do things like they'd be like walk like an iguana and you'd be like okay when will i ever use this and i'll tell tell you something, I haven't. Yeah. I think people, I think theater school is, was, I literally was not brave enough. I was not brave enough to be that on board for something. Do you know what I'm saying? It is, it is pretty brave to sign up for theater school and do some Shakespeare with other 19 year olds. God damn. You're also into music.

Yes. You're in a band. Yes, I have a... Called Twin. Yeah, I'm in a band called Twin. And we actually got a... We put a song of ours on Grey's Anatomy in 2022 or 2020. Yeah, 2022.

And so that was great for our band. And then this last year year I wrote a solo album and um it's actually coming out today my my solo congratulations violence is coming out today and I am stoked about that because it's just been it feels like it's a long time coming although year is not really a long time for an EP but I don't know i think it was a long time and i'm glad it's out thank you where can people find it anywhere music is streamed um and i want you to listen to it because i think it's really fun and horny and i'm really proud of it and i had so much fun doing it it was just like of all the i i have fun doing every kind of version of the art that I do. I love writing for TV.

I love being on TV. I've loved Twin. I've loved, but this really was me. And that feels like I'm sharing something kind of, you know, very precious in a way that I haven't before. I like that. Thank you. I like when people share precious parts of them. It feels, I don't know, it feels exciting. And it feels cool that someone's giving you like a little piece of them that feels important.

Yes, this is an important piece of me. This is a very horny, important piece of me. I like that it's horny. It is really horny. It's like inappropriately horny. Every song's like, can I fuck you? I mean, legit legit kind of and when i sing it on stage like you know i've like started doing shows around la and like going to new new york and when i sing

the songs in front of people i'm full ass like whoa what the fuck bro like i'm smiling while i sing them because i'm like i literally i feel like i'm cursing in front of my mom i like that one of my favorite jokes is a joke that I don't do often because it's the way I've worded it as wild and I every time I do it I laugh my way just right through it because I think it's so funny uh and I do love when you do something that's like kind of risque but also it's like this is very earnestly yeah yeah yeah it's earnest that's the that's the thing is there's nothing about it that I'm like oh that's not true like there's nothing about it that i'm like hmm i was just pretending to be horny i wrote these songs like a cat in heat i love that um oh here's something during the pandemic you developed

personal workouts for your friends yeah i did do that um that's nice yeah you know we were just all losing our fucking minds and I was drinking like you know like well I don't know what everybody else was doing but my partner and I at the time were drinking like two bottles of wine a day with these like massive Italian meals and I have always loved like being active but I just wasn't like I was just like okay I guess we're on vacation. And then, you know, six month of the vacation where everyone was dying hit. And I was like, wow, I don't think I can bend my knees. And so I got, I did get, I got all my friends kind of on board and would, was just kind of texting people being like, what do you want to do? Oh, sorry. My mom do oh sorry my mom is calling me and so it just interrupted this screen okay and i'm back i love

it ignoring a mummy yeah don't i don't tell her she maybe she'll listen she doesn't know where to find podcast i won't imagine i call her right now and i'm like did you know you were ignored oh she she would be upset oh it's hot in here i turned off the ac for the recording i was like oh no did you get hot because you're like your mom's gonna yell at you yeah i live in fear um but yeah you know what the the thing about giving your friends customized workout it's it's that everybody has a different body and so i was just texting when my friends and i were texting because people ask me what they should do to work out because i think for some reason I've just made it seem really fun and accessible. And so they would ask me for a little workout and I would say, what are your

goals? And then I would text them exercises that I thought would help. It was never about the goal was never to like change their body. It was always to be like, what will get you comfy again? It was always to be like, what will get you comfy again? Hold on. My mom is calling me again. Mom, I am on a podcast right now. Please stop calling. I will call you back.

I'm sorry. I thought my phone had made a mistake. No, your phone has not made a mistake. It's if I have to cancel it. So if it rings once and then it stops, don't call again. Okay. Okay. I love you.

I'll call you right after. Bye-bye. That was a very mom conversation. If the phone rings and I don't answer, don't call again. Was it my mistake? Yes, it was. I don't know if you heard her say like i thought my phone was broken like she thought her phone was broken because i didn't answer i just i really love people of a certain age because like how did you arrive at that conclusion

that your phone is broken because the other person didn't answer you i think it's total bullshit i think that she's just like I will call you till you're dead. And I know how to like feign like elderly. Because she's not elderly. She's like 65. So I'm like. Oh, so she absolutely knows how a phone works. Yeah. You know how the phone works.

This is not. I'm not on a phone call with an 85 year old man. Like enough. That's I love that very much. but just to go back to your work i think i've mentioned on this podcast before but i do these workouts with this man named daniel who's australian and he tells me i can do it and he tells me i can pause at any time and he's like you can just sit down on the couch and watch until you want to get up again it's this thing called the body project and there's always like a plus size a fat person behind him and then like a more

fit person behind him and then like a more fit person behind him and then he does the low impact stuff. And I do that because I'm like, oh, it's just fun to see these people have a nice time and then it's nice to be cheered on. Yes. I do love that shit. I love working out for the enjoyment of it.

And I think that that's a missing part of it is that we're all like, I have to be working out for a thing. Well, right now I've like injured my back and I'm still going and walking like an elderly person. I am walking on the treadmill at my gym because I'm like, I don't know. It just makes me feel good. And I'm walking really slow, but there is something mental about being like, but I did something for me today like i honored my house today and that felt nice like i'm not going in there and doing you know a hundred you know a thousand crunches every time i'm like just maintaining the vehicle and sometimes that's all you gotta do just maintain that little

vehicle er do you have anything else that you want to promote because we've come to the end i you know i do have something i want to promote i so while we were on strike my the show that i wrote on starring michelle bouton came out uh survival of the thickest and you were on it you were in an episode right multiple episodes just one one episode and you were great and michelle is just so alive and so wonderful and we haven't been able to really promote this show because it we literally i about it. And the next day they were like, no more posting about anything where it were officially on strike. This show, if you have not already seen it, is such a blast. It's called Survival of the Thickest. It's on Netflix. It's Netflix and A24. Michelle Buteau is just like such a wonderful light. And so if you haven't seen this yet, I just binged the whole thing. I think

you'll really love it. And everybody who worked on it is very, very proud of it. Yeah, it is a great show. I'll second you on that. I think I could. Maybe I can't second you on that. I take it back. SAG is still on strike. Well, you wrote on it and WGA is off strike. I didn't act on it. So you can talk about it. And me, I'll just be silent and go, I'll just say Nicole was great. Thank you.

ER, I ask all my guests this. Would you date me? A hundred percent. ER, that makes me so happy. Thank you so much. Thank you for being here and doing this. Thank you for having me. It was really fun.

Aw, thanks. Okay. If you like this episode of why what is my podcast why won't you date oh my god you can you can like it you can rate it you can subscribe you can give me five stars if you write something nasty at why won't you date me at gmail.com i will read it out loud why won't you date me podcast at gmail.com. What did I say? Why won't you date me at gmail.com. Oh, no. You got this. I don't know the name of the podcast. I don't know the email address, but it's why won't you date me podcast at gmail.com.

Mars, leave you in saying that. That's funny to me. Okay. Okay. This person said lasagna. Foreplay will commence at a local grocery store. We'll get in a very loud, petty argument over what type of lasagna pasta to buy. We will go home and admit that we're both silly and admit that we love all pasta types.

I'll make you delicious lasagna to eat on the couch while we watch 90 Day Fiance. Afterwards, I'll bend you over and eat that bussy like a piranha. Insert gnashing noises. Oh. Chewashing noises. Oh. Chew gow. Well, that's it. Bye-bye. That was a wonderful surprise at the end.

Why Won't You Date Me with Nicole Byer is produced by me, Mars. It's executive produced by Adam Sachs, Nick Liao, and Jeff Ross at Team Coco, with talent bookings by Paula Davis, Gina Batista, and Maddie Ogden. Got a question, crazy dating story, or a dirty message for Nicole? Write it to whywontyoudatemeepodcast at gmail.com for a chance to have it featured on a future show. Thanks for listening. We'll see you next week with a brand new episode. Bye-bye.

This has been a Team Coco production.