Why Won't You Date Me? with Nicole Byer - What's Up with Hair Conditioner? (w/ Ben Axelrad)

Episode Date: December 29, 2017

Nicole's friend Ben Axelrad (UCB Comedy, Definitely Dying Podcast) joins her to talk therapy, horrible dating stories, and why Nicole and Ben stopped dating after 3 dates. You can play along and see Nicole's Tinder bio and photos on her Facebook page at: https://www.facebook.com/pg/NicoleByerComedy Be sure to rate Why Won't You Date Me 5-stars on Apple Podcasts. Leave a dirty comment for a chance have it read on-air. Follow Nicole Byer: Tour Dates: nicolebyerwastaken.com/tourdates Twitter: @nicolebyer Instagram: @nicolebyer Facebook: www.facebook.com/nicolebyercomedy

Why won't you date me? Why won't you date me? Why won't you date me? Please tell me why! Hi, I'm Nicole Byer and this is Why Won't You Date Me? It is a podcast where I try to figure out why I'm single and why nobody will date me. I have a very, very wonderful guest. His name is Ben Axelrod. Boom, boom, boom, boom, Ben.

How are you, Ben? I'm good. How are you, Nicole? I'm good. You have such a fun, interesting last name. Thank you. And I don't know if you ever told me what it is. Is it something? Yeah, no, it literally means axle and rod, like the two main components of the wheel. We were cart makers in Kiev, old Russia. Wait, really?

Yeah, true story. Ooh, that's fun. And then it transferred from generation to generation. And we ended up in Detroit, where I'm from. My grandfather was the chief designer on the OJ Mobile, the Ford Bronco. The OJ Simpson Mobile? Yeah, the Ford Bronco. Oh.

The one that he got away in. Well, didn't ultimately get away, but they caught up to him. So are you like a Ford money? Do you have money? And I don't know about it. I don't have Ford money, but I'm from, but yeah,

my grandfather was, was like a big exec, not executive, an engineer at Ford. So within two generations, no car skills whatsoever. None. So does that mean your grandfather has a patent for wheels on a Ford Bronco?

I don't think so. He's dead. So I feel like I would have it at this point. Do patents get transferred from person to person after death? I don't know. I have 16 patents from all my dead relatives. Yeah, I mean, it seems like it, right? Like, I mean, it's his thing, just like the money.

I don't know. But yeah, no, I'm from car stock and have no abilities in the field whatsoever. Fair. I don't know. But yeah, no, we're, I'm from car stock and have no abilities in the field whatsoever. Fair. I love cars and I used to know a lot about cars. Really?

I could probably still change my oil. I don't think I could change a flat tire anymore. I don't know how to do that. I just don't want to. But I can like check fluids and stuff.

I could do all that. I love cars. Really? Yeah, when I was little, I would memorize the Consumer Reports car edition and then like recite facts to my parents.

And they'd be like, great, Nicole, we're glad you like something. Yeah, no, I have none of those. I have no abilities that pertain to hands. Like if you can touch something and make it better, not me. Everything I touch is worse. Oh, come on. What about like gardening or like having a succulent where you touch it every day? No green thumb.

Okay, fair. No, I really am bad at everything with your hands. That's a lie because you're a writer. You write with your hands. That's true. Okay, I'm bad at everything except for one thing with hands. Yeah. Okay, are you single currently?

Single currently. How long have you been single? Well, that's a good question. Like single meaning no one to call my girlfriend or for me to call their boyfriend forever. or for me to call their boyfriend forever, for like as long as time. Single in the sense that like I'm not actively dating anyone at all. Okay.

Probably like six months, something like that. Okay, cool. Are you on dating apps? No. You're not on Tinder, Bumble? No. Hinge? No.

OkCupid? I've been on Tinder and I've been on OkCupid. My thing is always, and I was dissuaded from doing this, and I knew it was a bad thing when I was doing it, but did actually have to be told to stop. Whenever I would get sick, like I would get a head cold or something like that, I would tinder and uh because i was lonely and there was no one to take care of me and then as soon as i got better i would cancel i would i would uh end the app yeah so would you have sickly conversations with these women and then

just never talk to them again not well uh Well, sort of. That's not precisely the way. Well, there was one where I got sick. I signed up for Tinder. We matched or whatever the term is. And we got to talking and then I set up a date with her and didn't get better from my sickness in time to go on the date. Okay. And so we continued talking on the phone for like a few more days and kind of killed it. Like it was like we liked each other enough to meet in person and then we didn't have a chance to meet in person. We went out this one time and then, yeah, it just sort of fizzled from there.

But otherwise, yeah, before the date would ever happen, I would realize like what I was doing was – well, I would realize what I was doing was bad. But also that like I didn't – I wasn't really interested in the dating part. It was just – I don't know. I would get sick and I would get so depressed that there was no one to take care of me. Ah.

And so yeah, so eventually someone was like, you know that's a really selfish thing to do and I was like, now I do. Now I'm just wondering of all the men

I've messaged are just sick people who have gotten better with vitamin C and Benadryl and that's why they've ghosted me. Yeah, I think that's probably the case. I mean, it's better to believe that, well, I don't know.

Is it better to believe that there are people like me out there or that it just didn't work out? I don't know. I think it's nice to believe that there's an actual reason that someone was like, oh, it's something I do when I'm sick and now I'm better. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But it is a bad thing to do. You would agree? Yes.

Very, very terrible. Yeah, yeah. I don't do it anymore. Yeah. Good. But every once in a while, I had a head cold last week and it did cross my mind. You're like, oh, I can't get out of bed. Better start shopping for women to take care of me.

Honestly, like Amazon Prime just like replaced like that. Like it was just like there was, I clicked on Amazon Now, I think it was called or whatever, and they just brought me the soup that I needed. And just up to that point, there was just no one bringing me that soup. That's great. Amazon is just a savior for single people who are sick that's right they're like i need someone to take care of me and they're like a robot will deliver you soup it'll be great yeah so when you were on dating apps what what

messages would you send to women what's an opening message i never sent a nobody message. Really? No. So you always wait for women to reach out to you first? No. It's not that I wait for that to happen. I just don't. Yeah, I don't think I like dating. And so I think it ends up – I don't find myself – well, okay. One, I don't really know how apps work. So I don't frequently get the message when it's sent to me.

I don't know how you make it so that like you actually receive the message. Like when I was on OkCupid, if I signed into OkCupid, then I would see this little message thing and I would click on it. But it would just be when I signed in. It seems like other people receive them like text messages. Is that accurate? You have to turn on your notifications. And then if you turn on your notifications, then it'll pop up where your texts are. It'll just be like on your home screen or whatever when your phone's locked.

It'll be like, oh, you got a Tinder match or you got a tinder message right uh so i didn't ever get those i mean i'm sure i got yeah i don't think i matched with that many people anyway because i didn't do i also still don't i've always had a hard time with like uh like i can't differentiate between like shampoo and conditioner and i think like i never feel comfortable that i know which one is right versus left. Is the good one or the bad one? You swipe right for yes, left for no. Okay. But also, you don't know the difference between shampoo and conditioner?

It takes – I have to like look at the bottle and read it. Yeah. Okay. Fair. But also, why don't you just get a two and one? Well, those don't work very well, don't you? I mean, I don't know. I always felt like they leave you with frizzy, dry hair.

Fair. I mean, I use two separate ones. Yeah, yeah. I was just trying to help you out. No, no, I appreciate it. I appreciate the help. Or you could buy a brand where there's a pump for the shampoo and then a pouring spout for the conditioner. That way, you wouldn't have so

much trouble no it's true i'm like i at this but at this point in my life like i i know that the the black bottle is the shampoo and the white bottle is the conditioner okay but i still read them just to make sure that i get it right i very recently just put conditioner all over my legs in a hotel room because i thought it was lotion. Turns out it was not. What happens when you, because somebody had told me recently that on those days where you want your hair to obey or whatever,

but you don't want to wash it, you can just put conditioner in it. What is conditioner? Do you know what conditioner is? I think conditioner makes your hair soft. Okay, so all it does is just. Or it is a lie that the hair companies have told us that we needed for our hair because i've also washed my hair with like a bar of dove soap and like oh it's soft

yeah i mean i have to believe that soap is soap uh yeah soap is soap i don't think shampoo's like restoring anything i that's what condition they're like conditioner like repairs your hair and i'm like how it's on for five minutes and then you wash it out. Yeah. And it is weird that you have to leave it in for so long. You do. Because shampoo, you just wash right out, right? And then conditioner, you have to, like, leave it on your hair for, like, a couple minutes.

I was staying at my friend's house and I washed my body with conditioner. So I guess what I'm trying to say is I have the same problems as you. Yeah, yeah. But to be fair, it was not my shower. And I guess what I'm trying to say is I have the same problems as you. But to be fair, it was not my shower. And I like squeezed it. I was like, this is not lathering right. And then I like started going for it. And I was like, ew, what is wrong with this fucking body wash? Then I looked at it and I was like, oh, I think this is her

boyfriend's fucking conditioner that I've slathered on my entire body. And then I was like, also I've wasted his conditioner. I felt like a fool. And then I was like, also, I've wasted his conditioner. Yeah, yeah. I felt like a fool, and I had not told her about it, because I felt like, I was like, how do you bring that up?

That I used half a bottle of your boyfriend's conditioner. Well, you bring it up on a podcast. So I haven't said anything. Yeah, I'll tell her later. Okay, I want you to read my Tinder profile, because I'm on Tinder. Yes. And it's just a shit show.

It's really awful. Everyone's a piece of shit. But here's my Tinder. Yes. And it's just a shit show. It's really awful. Everyone's a piece of shit. But here's my profile. Okay. Am I supposed to read it out loud or just read it? You can read it out loud and then describe the pictures. Yeah, like swipe through the pictures. Okay. This is a good picture.

Hey, thank you. He's talking about the first picture where I'm holding a big old dick. I'll hold it up to the mic. Hold it right up to the mic. Can you see it? They can see. Our listeners can see. Good night, Sashir.

Wait, what is? I heard you downstairs. I was like, what? Oh, yeah, that's what I say to my dear friend. Whatever you call it, I guess the person, wait, so there's more. The profile. Profile. It says, I got a fat ass, so guess the person, wait, so there's more. The profile. Profile.

It says, I got a fat ass, so if you're into that, hi, and then there's a lot of hi emojis. No, it's goodbye. Oh, goodbye. Oh. Oh, if you're not into that, goodbye. How can you tell the difference between hi and goodbye in your emoji ways? Because it's the way I'm saying it. I'm not saying I have a fat ass if you're not into it.

Hi. Right, right, right. That's true. Please. I missed the not. Oh, okay. You're less than a mile away currently. It's weird that it says where you are.

Grindr tells you by the foot. Really? Yeah. It's a gay dating app. Oh, yeah, yeah. They'll literally tell you if they're in the house. Do you have a Grindr account? No, I don't have a Grindr account,

but I know things about Grindr. I don't know anything about anything. I'm 40. I don't have to know anything anymore. You're 40? Yeah, I just turned 40 this anything. I'm 40. I don't have to know anything anymore. You're 40? Yeah, I just turned 40 this year. Congratulations. Thanks.

But I feel like all this stuff is in the rear view now. Like I'm allowed to like, okay, this is going to sound sad, but I don't care. I'm allowed to just die. Oh, God. Yeah. I mean, honestly, sure. Yeah. I'm allowed to.

40 is a long time to live. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, sure. Yeah. I'm allowed to. 40 is a long time to live. Yeah. Yeah. Sure. Yeah, I did it. Just pass away. Okay. I like people with a sense of humor because life is too fucking long not to laugh.

DTF, down to figure skate or fuck or farm or fly a kite, whichever is easier. Is this next part the 28 for friends? Oh, that's just like Facebook or whatever because you have to log in with Facebook. Is this a good profile? What do you think? Yeah, I think it's pretty good. Okay. Yeah.

I mean, I think it's like – yeah, I think it like – it doesn't like lean into sense of humor in a way that will maybe disengage people who aren't in our world, but it does still reflect sense of humor. You say who you don't want to respond to you. Down to figure skate or fuck, that's just a funny phrase. I like it. Okay, great. So I'm going to look through the pictures. The first picture is like it. Okay. Great. So I'm going to look through the pictures. The first picture is very good. Okay.

The second picture is good, but it's more of a distant picture. Okay. And there's a Christmas tree in it. Yes. Which I do think is probably going to turn off certain people. So I don't know if that's an issue. Yeah. Well, I think that it suggests religious.

And I don't think of you as religious. Interesting. And I think that a lot of the people in this world, on top of not being religious, don't celebrate Christmas. Oh, okay. So it's something to consider. I mean, I'm thinking about this harder than I probably would if I was on Tinder. Sure. But because we're on this podcast. And I'm asking you to do it.

Yeah, yeah. That's a very good picture. Ah, thank you. Yes, that is a selfie of me in a mirror looking very glamorous. This is a very good picture. Yeah, yeah. That's a very good picture. Ah, thank you. Yes, that is a selfie of me in a mirror looking very glamorous. This is a funny picture. That's me trying to climb a bookcase in a onesie. Well, I figure you got to show the body because I am a fat lady and I feel like fat ladies are like, no one will know if I just show my face. And it's like, bitch, when you walk up, he's going to know when you're waddling.

Like, you got to tell them beforehand. Yeah. Well, I just. Yeah. OK. That makes sense um i just think yeah it's a good picture though i think that was a good choice it's a it's a fun one um yeah no i think these are good pictures i think it's a good profile okay i think that like

honestly i was expecting it to be a little less take yourself seriously um which is not to say that i like wanted it to oh so you thought it was gonna be way more jokey than it is yeah i thought it was gonna be more uh more of the vibe like uh more of a take it or leave it kind of like goof off kind of vibe but it does seem like you are like legitimately looking for positive responses yeah yeah so i think that's getting very very few of them uh yeah i had noticed that i I was on Tinder for like, you know, I would never be on for longer than two weeks. So it's hard to really assess. But yeah, I didn't get a lot of good. I didn't get good responses either. Or I didn't get a lot of responses. What would women say to you as an opening line that you were like, oh, this is great. I got to talk to this lady. to you as an opening line that you were like, oh, this is great.

I got to talk to this lady. Well, I got to say that I'm going to preface that by saying that one of the things I found very confusing about Tinder was that you would see so many people you knew on it. And I didn't know how you were supposed to respond to that. So I found that like a lot of times what was intimidating me, like the head cold thing is legit, but it's but that aside, it was just like, all of a sudden I would match with somebody that I didn't know if I just knew them from the comedy world. And I didn't know what I was supposed to, but those would be the conversations that I would end up having. And it, you know, I mean, I think it seems to me that like the point to Tinder is that when somebody matches with you should just know that they like

you, or if they don't, if they don't match with you, then they don't like you. And so I would match with these people and still not know if they liked me. And it was sort of like, well, what's the point of this? I could have this at the bar. And I routinely did. Just no clue whether or not somebody – and I think it's a hard thing about like where we're at in the world right now is just like that, you know, I mean, I have tons of female friends and my dad didn't, you know, like he had a couple of them. But for the most part, the women that he was friends with were women that he was fucking probably, you know. And so, yeah.

So I think that can be like a hard thing. So like when somebody would, when somebody would message me and I didn't know them, I think because I had had this like Pavlovian response to the ones that I did know, I would suddenly think like, all right, what is like, this is a scammer, right?

Like this person is like, not necessarily even the catfish thing, but just like this person is going to murder me or something like that. And then it just like, maybe they probably wouldn't, but it wasn't worth finding out. That's very funny that you thought that women were on Tinder looking to murder. Yeah, yeah. I know, and that's the thing is that then I would have to like,

I would really have to reconcile with like the fact that like, oh, if I'm feeling this, then they have to be feeling that way about me. Because I'm like a large dude who like. You're very tall. How tall are you? Six, three, six, four, be feeling that way about me. Because I'm like a large dude who like- You're very tall. How tall are you? Six, three, six, four, something like that, in that range. So yeah, they have to be wondering about me too. So you have like had conversations with people you know on Tinder?

Yeah. And then when you saw them outside of Tinder, would you be like, we had a good conversation? Would you bring it up or no? I would just, I think I was very intimidated by it. Like I wasn't sure. Yeah. I've always been like a little bit probably romantically shy. Yeah.

I would say that. Yeah. I'm not like, I'm not a real forthright guy when it comes to my feelings probably in general. Fair. I feel like a lot of men aren't forthright with their feelings. I don't even know that I'm forthright with my feelings to me. Like I don't even know if I actually know what I feel. Fair.

Are you in therapy? No, but I have been thinking about it. It's been a long time since I did therapy, but I've been thinking about going back. Are you? I'm in therapy. I like my therapist. We've been working on some things. Yeah.

Right now we're working on my intimacy issues. Oh, yeah? Because we just figured out that I have ADHD. Yeah. Which triggered a little bit of depression. So then I'm on medication for that. And the depression, it's not gone, but it's like cleared up a lot. So now we're working on my intimacy issues and it's, oh boy, not fun.

Yeah. I've been to a decent amount of therapy and I've definitely worked on those specific issues. And yes, I will corroborate your story. Not at all fun. Not even fun to acknowledge that you have them. Like that first step of it. I think I deny it. I'm like, yep, I have problems.

Help. So wait, you have not, you've only gone out with one girl from Tinder. Yes? Yes. And how was that first date? Not knowing someone. Like, have you been on many blind dates before? No.

I haven't been on many dates before. I mean, I've been on like, yeah, I you been on many blind dates before no um i haven't been on many dates before i mean i've been on like yeah i've been on a few um but uh no it was bad it was like uh it was like i had a bad time and i felt like she had a bad time and then this is the thing that people always like and this i've acknowledged that this is probably not the right move but like i've done it a few times and like and i do i do struggle with figuring out how to get out of the cycle. It's just like, sometimes I'll decide like, eh, this person is showing no signs of really liking me. I'm going to do them the favor of just like leaving them alone. And then people are like, no, you have to give people the opportunity to tell you that.

Yeah. you have to give people the opportunity to tell you that. Yeah. Uh, but I was just like, that sounds so uncomfortable to me to have to say to somebody like, uh, it's you. I don't want you.

And then it's just like, and I don't know that I don't even feel like I don't feel that way. But every time that I've ever had a conversation with somebody that was of that nature, that's always, that's always the takeaway is that like it's felt personally. And my thing is just that like it's felt personally. And my thing is just that like – well, it's never personal with me. Like I go really, really – well, I try to go out of my way to find the – like the sustainable relationship,

like whatever it might be. But it's hard. Like if it starts out as dating, it usually feels like it's either dating or it doesn't end up kind of anything. And that's never my intention, but my intention is to just be like, I don't know,

whatever the other person wants me to be. And that's probably not- That's not good. You gotta be you. I know. I think if someone was like, Nicole, it's you. Yeah. It's not me.

I'd be like, all right. I'd probably be like a little upset for a little bit, but then also I'd be like, oh good. Yeah, yeah. I'm glad that you were like, no, it's you. I don't really like you and you're not for me. Yeah, yeah. I think I would prefer that other than like someone ghosting me or something.

And they would never be like a straight up. Well, it would, my intention would never be to straight up ghost. It would be more like a situation where, uh, you know, like,

like with, uh, with a girl I went out with like a few times recently, it was a situation where I felt like I was always, I was always instigating the conversation. I was always the first person to text and I was the last person to text. And then after like a couple of weeks of it or whatever, I was just like, you know, this person doesn't like me. If they liked me, they would start the conversation.

And so then I was just like, all right, well, I'll wait for them to start the conversation. And then they didn't. And so I think, you know, I think on some level I'm ghosting, but I was also just sort of like willing to be ghosted. And I don't know what the, I don't know what the protocol is. Like, I, I honestly don't know what the right move would have been. And I think one of the, I think one of the, the, one of the reasons that I suffer through this, like I, one of the reasons that I suffer through this, like one of the reasons that I struggle with like this kind of stuff is that I had a really long-term serious relationship. For how long? Well, it wasn't really long-term, but a couple of few years, like somewhere in that range. That's long.

More than a year is very long to me. Yeah, yeah. It was – I want to say it was like around two years and maybe a little over. And this overlapped with when text messaging happened. And so like I was in a relationship before text messaging, stayed in the relationship until text messaging became like a thing people knew how to do. And then I never learned how to do it dating wise. I never learned how to like flirt with it. I never learned how to like – I can barely emoji.

like I'm, I can barely emoji and, uh, and just like, um, you know, I feel like, uh, um, it stifled me when it came time to like be a modern day dating man. Yeah. It's funny to use emoji as a verb. I don't even know how to emoji. That's very funny. So, okay. You said that the girl wasn't initiating conversations back with you. But then for me, I'm like, I don't want to do too much and annoy him. Right, right, right. So, like, do you know what the fine line is or what the happy medium is? Well, I think it's simply a situation where, like, neither party is really thinking too much about it. Like, you know, he's texting you some, you're texting him some.

And it just feels mutual. But like when it doesn't feel mutual, especially like when we're in, you know, dating is a vulnerable thing. And like, in order to have like a good or bad relationship, but it, but let's focus on the good ones. You have to be willing to like, take risks, you know? And I would find that like, when I was feeling vulnerable, I wasn't taking risks. And, and sometimes it would just be like, you know, that girl that I went on the date with through Tinder, like when we were just – before we actually met, we were trading a lot of back and forth stuff. It felt very like organic. And that seemed good. I agree.

Like if someone's not responding to you, then you don't want to blast them. But yeah, like any of those situations where I felt like I was being the blaster after like a short period of time, I was like, I don't want to be that person. Like I don't want to be. But I'm not sure like, yeah. So I would say a person, I mean, you know, in the situation that I think we're describing, like you got to be willing to take those risks. But a person does have to like, I mean, these are strangers, you know. So like a person does have to be a little analytical about it don't you think yeah i get real in my head about things like too much oh so much like i was i went out with this guy for like a month from

tinder or whatever and then i was like well why isn't he doing x y and z and then i was like i wonder if he's even thinking about me the same way i'm thinking about him. And then he essentially like ghosted me after like six dates or whatever. And I was like, that's too many dates. I feel like you owe me just like a little bit more than that. Cause he was like, Oh, I just,

I need to like focus on some other shit. And I was like, okay, cool. But then we like kept texting and then he just like stopped. And I was like, well, I guess he's focusing on his other shit right now.

Right. Right. I guess I'll never know. Better start a podcast so I can talk about it over and over and over again. Has he been on? No, but I should ask. You should ask him. He's not a comedian.

Yeah, yeah. But I did ask one of your friends, I asked, and he said no. Oh, really? And I was like, okay. Yeah, he didn't want to talk about how we made out. And then had to fight about whether he was going to come into my house in an Uber. Which And I was like, okay. Yeah, he didn't want to talk about how we made out and then had to fight about whether he was going to come into my house in an Uber. Which I think is like very funny.

And I was like, I would love to know what you were thinking during that because I was wasted. And then another guy was a producer that I hooked up with once and he was like, eh. And I was like, that's fine. You're not a performer.

You don't have to talk to me about this. Don't worry about it. But yeah, I'm like, I have like one non-comedian that I'm trying to have about this. Don't worry about it. But yeah, I'm like, and then there's, I have like one non comedian that I'm trying to have on. Cause I peed on his floor and just got to hear his side of it. And how he cleaned that up the next day. Yeah.

His life is wet. Oh God. Very silly. So, okay. So what? You talk first. Okay. uh how like how many dates do you think is appropriate before having a conversation about like intentions um that's been that's been like a

real concern of mine me personally i feel like i'm getting older so like i want to know what what you're thinking like four dates in four dates okay yeah yeah I think like after four dates we've either slept together

or like we've talked about like what we want yeah yeah it's like if you don't if you're not looking for something serious tell that person yeah

because after four I feel like because if you go on a date a week four is a month yeah yeah that's true so after a month of spending time with someone and especially if you're doing like long dates where like you're doing trips to the beach or like you're doing a movie and a dinner or like spending chunks of time together. I think it's like after four dates, that's like what? Three, six, like almost like 10 hours.

Yeah. You got to tell me what's up. I agree with that. you gotta tell me what's up I agree with that I my number had always been three that like that anyone worth going out with once is worth three times at least like that that's

that's that was that had been like that had been the approach that I took to it was just like if you like somebody enough to spend some time with them then give them a chance to like don't just blow them off after one but like at three it was time to like have a conversation about like, don't just blow them off after one. But like at three, it was time to like have a conversation about like, what are we thinking? And then like if I liked a person but didn't necessarily know if it was going somewhere,

then I would give it as many as another three dates to assess. Okay. So you give up to six dates to completely assess. Well, at six dates, six dates would mean that like after three dates, I still wasn't sure. And there are a lot of reasons why I might not be sure that have very little to do with the other person that I mean, a lot of it for me is like is the same. You know, basically, I'll have to eventually go to therapy for the same reason that you go to therapy. And I just have to acknowledge that, that sometimes I'm resisting a feeling that I'm having and other times I'm, yeah. And other times I just think that like,

that if you just decide that the relationship, this romantic relationship isn't going anywhere, then you deprive yourself of like the chance to potentially have that friend. You can't force somebody to be your friend if there, if there was like a romantic thing going on beforehand, but it seems like any sort of blow off is it's over.

Like any possibility of it is over. Okay. We got to take a break right now, but hang on to your hats cause we gonna come back for more fun. Because we're going to come back for more fun. Well, it's interesting that you said three dates is the time you allot to see if the person's worth going forward. Because we went on three dates. Yeah, that's true, actually. And you made a choice at the end of the third date.

You said no more. But I, well, that's one of the reasons that I was actually interested in coming on this podcast is that I didn't feel that it happened that way. But I felt like I started a conversation that went badly very quickly and I didn't intend for it to and I didn't know what to do about it. Okay. Let's talk through it. So we met at a mutual friend's wedding. That was a glorious, beautiful barn wedding in North Carolina.

And then all of us were on the same flight back and we had had brunch at this like cute little foodsy type place where we, I don't think I met you at the wedding. Yeah, at the very least, like we didn't bond at the wedding. No. Yeah. Were you in the groom's party? No we didn't bond at the wedding. No. Yeah. Were you in the groom's party? No. No.

You were just an attendee. I was injured at the wedding. And so I didn't do a lot of, like, there wasn't a lot of activity. Oh. I don't think I knew that. Yeah. Actually, on the flight there, tore my meniscus. Oh, shit.

So I couldn't really walk. Wait. You tore your meniscus on the flight? On the airplane, yes. How? Because when you're my height, and so this was a mistake that I made, and this was a mistake that you did not make, which was that because there were so many of our friends there, knowing that I'm of a size where first class is mandatory, I'm willing to spend the bucks. I'm sorry if you're poor. Poor folks, screw off.

We're having a conversation. Sorry about it. We have money. So I chose to sit in the back. And so I bought like this round trip ticket in coach so that I could sit with, are we allowed to say our like friends' names and stuff on this? So I could sit with, uh, with, um, are we allowed to say our, our like friends names and stuff on this?

So I could sit with Joe Saunders, um, on the flight back, but on the flight there, uh, my knee was tweaked, uh, because of the seat in front of me so badly that when I landed, I, there was like just a little tear in the meniscus and I couldn't walk. So I was able to like, I got through the wedding and stuff, but I didn't like, yeah, until we left the wedding. Yeah, I don't think I made any new friends. And you were a new friend. Yeah, we're new friends. So we met at that brunch and then you went to the back of the plane.

Yes. Yeah. I was in the front of the plane drinking lots of vodka. Yeah, you had a good time. Oh, I had the best time. I took off my bra. That's right. Yeah. I was having the time of my vodka. Yeah, you had a good time. Oh, I had the best time. I took off my bra. That's right, yeah. I was having the time of my life.

Yeah, so like I boarded the plane and by the time like you, Marcy, and Paul and Joe had gotten on, I was double fisting with my bra in my hand. I was having the time of my life. Yeah. So then we started texting. Yeah, well, you texted something to our mutual friend before that. Oh, maybe I texted him to Marcy and then Marcy got your number from me. Oh, no, I DM'd you. Oh, I

texted Joe to ask Joe if you were single. He was like, yes. Then I DM'd you on Twitter. He was like, take me on a date. I think I demanded it. Possibly. And then, because that's just how I live my life, just demanding things from people. So then we went on a date. We went to Pubelle. ended it possibly and then because that's just you know how i live my life just demanding things from people so then we went on a date we went to poobel yeah it was nice yeah i had a good time

and i was like oh boy this is great you took me home in that subaru yes and then uh we went to our second date you came over we watched i think a movie or maybe we just talked i don't remember uh no we just we just hung out on the couch on that couch and then we went to a bar where you live yes yeah on our third date and then you said i don't need you anymore get out of my life you dusty bitch no that's not uh no uh i didn't say that i don't know why it's important to me that your listeners. No, Ben said to me, get out of my life, you dusty bitch. And I said, but I'm not dusty. I took a shower. Oh, you dusty.

No, I, no. So, yeah. So why won't you date me? Why didn't you date me? Why didn't you date me longer? Well, okay. So I didn't have the intention of it ending on that day. That wasn't what I said. What I said was I don't want to do this anymore. What I had said was, and I don't remember the specifics, but like the gist was like I basically wanted to talk about how we were feeling about the situation because my feeling was that like that I wasn't sure where it was going, but that I liked you enough at the very least as a person that I wanted to do a few more.

But I was sort of saying like, is this enough? What we're doing right now, is this enough? And it sort of spiraled a little bit from there. And I didn't know how to get it back on track. And I didn't know how to get it back on track. And then I went home and I was like, I was thinking about, all right, how can I like, how can I I don't know if I felt like I needed to redeem myself, that it was either like I should either say, yes, I'm feeling this or I should say, no, I'm not feeling this. But what I was intending to say was I wasn't sure how I was feeling and that we should like that part of it was that like that. Well, I guess I want to go into this one part of it that I think was important but like maybe led things down the bad path, which was that like right before we went to this wedding, I was in Detroit, Michigan where I'm from. And I had this like internal monologue about how it was time that I start saying like yes to things like dating in general.

And so I had said, I said these two things to myself that then ended up backfiring a little bit. One was that if someone asked me out on a date that I was going to say yes, unless I had a reason not to, but two, that I was actually going to spend some time thinking about what I was looking for in another person. And one of the main things that I had decided was, and this, this came up in our conversation was that I didn't want to date someone that was under 30 at that time, that I felt like that something had changed in me when I turned 30. And the main thing was that, um, uh, well, I'm not exactly sure what had changed now that I'm 40 whole new things have changed, but, uh,

those are all penis related. Um, so, uh, no, but, um So no, but yeah, my feeling was that I wasn't really interested. I really liked you as a person, but you came along and you asked me out and you did represent these things that I had decided weren't probably right for me right now, which was that you were under the age where I felt like I wanted someone who was over 30. At least I thought I did in my head. And I wasn't really interested in dating within comedy at that time. And, and so, um,

and I can't remember what the other ones were, but those were like sort of the big two. And then you came along and, and you asked me out and I said, yes. And I had a good time with you and I really did enjoy, but, but it was sort of hard to reconcile.

Like which one of these am I supposed to do? Am I supposed to say yes, because I'm yes because this is my like little yes man period or am I supposed to stick to my guns and say that I'm looking for something very specific? Because in my – I think the main reason that I was looking for someone over 30 was a feeling that – because at that time I was like 38. So I was like approaching 40, which meant like I don't do a lot of – I mean I don't date a lot in general, but I really don't do a lot of casual dating. Like for me, when I set out to date somebody, like the last person that I, that I dated, she's probably going to hear this. It's going to blow up in my face. It's terrible. Whatever. I'm just owning it. I thought I was going to marry her because in my mind, it's like, I don't want to do any dating unless in my, unless I could see it going to that place.

And it felt like you were in a different place. Very, yes. And that like that was always going to be an issue was that like one of us was going to have to compromise where we were at in our lives. And so as a person, I was like, I can't think of someone that I've found more interesting to spend time with. I mean, the thing was, you said something about me at the time that was like, it was attractive to me that you recognized it. And I also recognized it in you. And I liked that a lot,

which was that you said I had very kind eyes, which is something that people say about me frequently is that I do consider myself to be someone who is compassionate towards others. And I felt that same way about you. Like comedy is great, but I didn't consider it even close to your best quality. And so I was enjoying the time, but then it all of a sudden was like,

all right, I have to, I can't let her, I'd already felt like I had let it dangle and I didn't mean to, but I just didn't, I really wanted to be the person behind the kind eyes. Like I just wanted to be the guy who was like, I didn't want to – like you said, you can't just like – you have to be you. You have to be real. But at the same time, like I wanted you to know that like regardless of what the – what situation presented itself that like I think you're top notch.

Like I think that you're a great person. Beyond like the comedy is like so – this comedy is so latter to me. You were in this room by yourself before I got here and you were laughing hysterically. You can make yourself laugh. I can make myself laugh. Most people in comedy can make themselves laugh. There's always something else that I'm looking for. Sure.

And so I really wanted you to know that I thought thought you were a tremendously like special and important person. Thank you. But I also didn't – it also just didn't feel like – it felt like at a certain point, someone's feelings were going to get hurt simply for the reason that like we were at different stages in our life. Yeah, and I do think – I don't think you thought you conveyed that very well, but I do think you did. Okay, good. I think you – I thought I did terribly. No, no, no.

I think you actually said the words, think we want different things yeah which is like I wasn't mad or anything I was just like oh what a bummer like yeah I thought this was this could have been something but I mean yeah like you were looking for marriage and I think we had a conversation where you were like I want kids and I was like oh I hate children I don't want them at all and that's like a big thing yeah and it's like that's good to know you know straight off the bat so I don't think it went bad I think it was good okay good uh because you didn't ghost me um no I thought you did a really great job of saying what you meant knowing full well that we have so many friends in common and

that like we would run into each other at times and that you might date someone who's a friend of mine and we would just be in each other's lives, you know, you know, uh, peripherally for a very, like forever because we do comedy. Um,

yeah, I think, I think it was handled well. I don't think you should feel bad about it. Oh yeah. I didn't like ultimately like feel bad about it. I left sort of feeling like, huh, I huh i wish i wish this had gone slightly different but i'm not sure what i yeah i don't know like and i and i think it at least for me i think it i always people will say this

thing and and and when i when i really think about it i i do, I do understand the value in it that like you're hung up on the last person you fucked, you know? Yes. And I see that happen quite frequently, but I don't know how to rebound. Like I don't know how to like something like the relationship doesn't go quite right. And then I'll be like, all right, we'll try this again in like six years. Yeah. That tends to be what I do. like, all right, we'll try this again in like six years.

And that tends to be what I do. I try to like really just get back on the horse after I like dwelled on it for hours and talked it out in the most annoying way possible. I'm sure my therapist is really sick of me. I'm just like, this man, he was mean and I liked him. Is that your go-to? Is it your therapist that you usually talk to or are you like open with friends? I literally have a podcast where I could talk about it.

That's true. I will talk to anyone who will listen about my boy troubles. I talk to friends. I talk to my therapist. I talk to my dog sometimes about it. And my dog is so dumb. He never says anything of value.

And I'm just like, Clyde, come on. Charlie, what about you? And they're just like, feed us treats. So here's a question. Why do you And I'm just like, Clyde, come on. Charlie, what about you? And they're just like, feed us treats. So here's a question. Why do you think I'm single? And I know you don't know me super well.

We've only been on three dates and been to one wedding together. But why do you think I'm single? Why do I think you're single? I should have thought about this before because it was something that you prompted me. It's fine. Why do I think you're single?

I think that – well, I will say that I don't actually know who truly interests you. Like I mean that's going to – like that's not the answer to the question. But I'm not sure in a man what it is that you actually want like it sort of seems like um you go in with certain expectations that it's gonna kind of go poorly and you play that up comedically but as a result i you know and i and i i did feel like you liked me, but I didn't feel like I was necessarily like – yeah, I didn't know that I – I didn't come away feeling like I wasn't your type, but I also didn't come away feeling like I was your type. I just sort of felt like we went on some dates and stuff and then like we assessed it. But I feel like I'm single because I want something very specific and I haven't exactly found it yet. What do you specifically want?

I know over 30, not in comedy. Honestly, I shouldn't have mentioned that because now I have to say what it is that I actually want. I am very – this is bad. Oh, I can't wait. I – do you know what ASMR is? It's like a woman touching like a table being like, it's a nice table. Yeah, yeah. Sort of, yeah.

Or like touching things. Like very amplified like audio stuff and like a lot of like – basically I'm just looking for someone to help me to feel calm and I never get that out of comedy. Okay. Comedy is – anytime I've dated in comedy, they're really fun situations where we stay up laughing until 3 in the morning and then I wake up the next day and I'm miserable. And really, I just want somebody, whether it was a musician or like a soft voiced sing like you know Chantouse is that the word maybe? Chantouse? Like a female singer or whatever. Like Jewel?

Well not Jewel but yeah like My hands are small and Or Bjork? Well not that I'm trying to think of who a good example is Part of the problem is that they're all like to think of who a good example is. Part of the problem is that they're all – any singer I can come up with is like 23 years old. So you want an older, soft-spoken singing lady to make you feel good? I don't know.

I just – I don't know what person I want. I just want that thing. Like I want somebody that will like help me to go to sleep at night. Like somebody that like when I talk to them, I get calmer as opposed to like getting more amplified, more excited, like more jokey. Because it's hard for me to like ever turn off. And I don't mean like the comedy thing. I just mean like the entire. As a person, as a human, your brain and everything.

That makes sense. And so, yeah, I found that I was looking for like somebody that would help me to feel like calmer in my day-to-day life. Somebody that would like, yeah. And then there are just like ASMR stuff, which if you, if, if,

if you're listening out there and you don't know what it is, it's, I think it's audio sensory median response. And it's like a lot of stuff that like gives you like, you know, like tingles and stuff like that. It's like people mushing bananas being like, so I don't listen to those.

But so it's not even romantic for me. It's just like a feeling of calmness that I don't know how to generate for myself. And most other things I know how to generate for myself. Like I can cook for myself just fine. I can like. I'll say this. I don't know if you're looking for a partner. I know.

Or if you're looking for inner peace. Yeah, you're're that's uh those are two separate things you're right and and uh um no that's uh uh that's some heavy shit you're right you're right well on that note man thank you so much for doing this thank you you for having me. Do you have anything that you want to plug? You can listen to my podcast with the- The wonderful Madeline Walter, who I love so much. She's the best. She's just so great. And are we allowed to say it was her wedding that we met at?

It was Madeline's wedding. It was Madeline and the equally great Ben Green. Yep, another Ben. They're the perfect couple. They make me so happy. I love them so much. But yeah, where can they listen to your podcast? Definitely Dying. You can find us on iTunes. We're through the UCB

podcast network. Yeah, check us out. We talk about health and hypochondria and crap like that. Nicole was on. She was great. I was on an episode. It was fun. It was really, really fun to do. Yeah, you were great. Thank you so much.

If you are listening to this podcast and you like what you hear, I would like you to rate it five stars. And when you rate it five stars, I also want you to say something where you're hitting on me. And if you say something nasty enough, i will read it aloud on the podcast when i record you can do something like this was a tweet someone tweeted at me girl you can sit on my face and wiggle around or let me find this other one oh i can't find it it was another tweet about my ass being very fat and they that i could back it up into them so anything fun like that the more offensive the better uh the grosser the better uh i think things like that are very very silly um so yeah listen to ben's podcast uh keep listening to this subscribe love

it whatever okay bye Okay, bye-bye. Bye-bye. This has been a Team Coco production.