Wilder - 1. "Now is Now"

Episode Date: June 8, 2023

Host Glynnis MacNicol has loved Laura Ingalls Wilder and her Little House books since she was a kid. She’s not alone in this, a lot of people have a strong devotion to Laura. Some travel miles to visit her houses and attend pageants dedicated to Laura and her books. But over the years, Laura, her work, and her legacy have become increasingly controversial. How do we reckon with the things we loved as a child? The stuff that made us who we are? Glynnis takes to the road to find out, driving across the midwest to all of Laura’s houses. First stop: Walnut Grove, Minnesota.  Go Deeper:Visit Walnut Grove Keiko Satomi’s article, At The Library: Libraries put 'Little House' series in new light Dr. Debbie Reese’s blog, American Indians in Children’s Literature Follow us for behind the scenes content! @WilderPodcast on TikTok@Wilder_Podcast on InstagramSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Alphabet Boys is a podcast that takes you inside undercover investigations. In the second season, we've got an alphabet soup with the DEA, the CIA, and the FBI all mixed up in the same case. So you do personal security all over the world and you have somebody call you and say, can you get grenades and guns for this guy in Colombia? No, no, no. It's a mystery wrapped around an international arm's deal. Alphabet Boys, on the I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. It's a mystery wrapped around an international arm deal. Alpha Bet Boys.

On the I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. So there is a ton of stuff they don't want you to know. Yeah, like does the US government really have alien technology? Or what about the future of AI? What happens when computers actually learn to think? Could there be a serial killer in your town? From UFOs to psychic powers and government cover-ups, from unsolved crimes to the bleeding edge of science, history is riddled with unexplained events.

Listen to stuff they don't want you to know on the iHeart Radio app Apple Podcasts or wherever you find your favorite shows. From I Heart Podcasts Supreme, the Battle for Row, tells the story of the unlikely champions behind the landmark case, Row V-Wade, starring Maya Hawk as 26-year-old lead attorney, Sarah Weddington, for challenging the Texas abortion laws and federal court. And Academy Award nominee, William H. Macy,

as Supreme Court Justice Harry Blackman. Time is not the most important factor, getting it right is. Listen to the podcast Supreme, the Battle for Roe, on the I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. There are towns all over America you've never heard of. Oh, welcome to Independence. Oh my God. That's how you just said that this is the night 20 miles.

They're not easy to get to. The nearest airports are almost always hours away by car. It's three hours away. The roads wind through farmland, prairies, forests, mountains, desolate spaces. So far this feels like the smallest. Most remote places we've got. But every year the people come. They arrive in droves.

It's like something out of field of dreams. A dirt lot becomes a parking lot. A prairie becomes a stage. There's so many cars here. You would think you were at a county fair. What even do you think? 500 cars? Families pile out of cars and costumes.

Because it's fantastic. Are you in the car? Shut up. They're wearing dresses, aprons, bonnets. I think of course it too. And last summer, we joined the pilgrimage and came here too. We arrived in the middle of vast fields to discover entire towns right out of the 1800s. Hovered wagons, actual horses, Are these fides do? A cow.

They're all four-h cows, that's why they're a moderately well-mannered and only eat people's aprons. Hundreds of thousands of people have flocked to these places for nearly five decades, literally from all over the world. All the way from Spain! There you go! People from Italy, Germany, like Japan. It's like, really?

Like, all the way over there? To here? Like, y'all know about this place? What is bringing people here? What inspires this devotion? Or should we say, who? Good evening ladies and gentlemen. My name is Laura Ingles Wilder and I will...

You're from the 47th annual Laura Ingalls Wilder's Day. Laura Ingalls Wilder, author of the Children's Book Series, Little House on the Prairie. When people ask me who Laura Ingalls Wilder is, I usually tell them that she is one of the most important American children's book authors of the 20th century. Which was turned into the hit TV show Little House on the Prairie. I literally wake up in the middle of the night and go, somebody somewhere is watching the less of the prairie. Laura is the subject of entire academic fields of scholarship, annual conferences.

She's inspired fashion lines, cultural trends, and entire lifestyle industry. And about 75 years after her death, thousands of people still flock to tiny towns in the middle of nowhere to celebrate her. Everybody, come on, they all rave! Just, little cowards bury, huh? It's not very long, but I'm definitely

kind of feeling this happy and along, so... You know what really is for me? This, right here, this is my childhood fantasy, come to life. Laura's books have been read by millions, in many ways her story is the American story of being on the road. As a young girl, she traveled thousands of miles in a covered wagon, her family in search of a better life.

She's a Hollywood Western. She's Jack Kerouac, but in an actress with braids. There's almost a this mascot of American settlers. She witnessed the birth of modern America, and she wrote down everything she saw. Everybody who's lived from covered wagons to airplanes is a time machine, but not very many people wrote down what their experience was.

We're nearly everything. Her books are based on her life, but in the process of telling her story, she erases a lot of others. It requires putting yourself in the process of telling her story, she erases a lot of others. It requires putting yourself in the shoes of an individual, embedded in really complicated, sometimes violent systems. That mythology of the frontier, the mythology of Manifest Estonne,

I think the pressures of the narrative were really heavy. If we pretend to past was not as controversial and difficult and racist as it was, then how are we going to deal with the racist issues we're grappling with today? I didn't think about any of this when I read these books as a kid. I just fell in love with Laura. It basically mainlined her story straight into my DNA,

which is where they stayed for a long time. But with any kind of love comes responsibility. One of the reasons for this trip is my desire to look honestly at the thing I loved the most. What am I loving? Should I love it? Will I still be able to love it on the other side? Lauren Goeswilder, whose story is embody the best and the worst of America, who seems to reincarnate with each generation. Her problems are still our problems. But who is she really?

And what can she tell us about the America we live in today? In a country currently at odds with itself and its history, could there be a better time for this exploration? There's never been a better time than now. I'm Glinnis a little bit more careful. This is my parents' atlas. From when I grew up, National Geographic Atlas of the World revised third edition, and it comes in a box. These days when I pick up a little housebook, I'm immediately time-traveled into 1982.

I'm in Kitchener, Ontario, an hour west of Toronto. I'm sitting on the brown-brated rug in my family's wood-paneled living room. I'm seven years old. In my memory, I would come down stairs would be like a Saturday morning and every one would be asleep in the house. And I'd pull this out from the bottom shelf of the bookcase in the family room. Because I would want to look at where Laura Ingalls lived.

There's nine books in the little house series and in the last five of them, she lives in a place called Desmet South Dakota. Here it is. It's in the middle of Harlem in page 217 almost near the bottom and it says Desmet S-D-A-K and it says 32-D-5. So page 32 is a double spread of what I now understand to be the Midwest of the United States of America. So my left finger would be on five, my right finger, me on D, and then I'd pull them together to where they meet the joy An excitement of seeing where she lived on an actual map was so gratifying to me and exciting because It was just a real person and this little tiny entry on a map just seems like proof to me that it was possible

to little tiny entry on a map just seems like proof to me that it was possible to be an adventurous girl in the world. And then I would try and hold my finger here and then lift the pages back to the one that showed the whole map of the United States and find South Dakota. And then I'd look over, because on the big map, the top of Canada shows. And I could find Toronto. And then just to the left, it was Kitchener where I lived. And I just remember trying to measure it with my hands.

My hands are much bigger now, so it's like one hand with. But as a kid, it was like, for me, where I was, to Laura Engels, where she was, was like two of my little seven-year-old hands, and that felt super important to me that I could measure the distance between the two of us, like, here's where I existed, and here's where she existed, and I can see them both on the same map, and they're not that far apart. This map was such a big deal to me. It makes me want to cry, looking at it. So obviously I have an intense relationship to Laura.

But when I say Laura Ingalls Wilder, what do you think of? What about when I say a little house on the prairie? Do you see the yellow box set of books? Or maybe Melissa Gilbert with braids running down a grassy hill? Or do you think of nothing at all? Why don't we start with the basic facts? Loringles Wilder was born in a log cabin in Wisconsin on February 7, 1867 in the aftermath of the Civil War. She spent her childhood on the American frontier, and by the time she died in 1957, at age age 90 she'd witness the violent

transformation of the American West. Her lifetime saw the advent of electricity, cars, two world wars, television, and Elvis Presley. She'd made her first trips in a covered wagon and three years before her death she flew on a jet plane. When I think about the arc of Laura's life I'm reminded of that line in Madman when Bert Cooper's secretary former Hellcat Ida Blankenship dies. She was born in 1898 in a barn, she died on the 37th floor of the skyscraper. She's an astronaut. Laura's an astronaut, and a time traveler.

Or at least a time traveling machine. For me, that time machine takes the form of the nine little housebooks, which roughly cover her pioneer childhood during the years 1870 through 1885. As she and her family traveled around the American Midwest from Wisconsin to South Dakota. I didn't know it when I was seven, but I wasn't just mapping out Laura's journeys on my parents' atlas. I wasn't some ways, I was seven, but I wasn't just mapping out Laura's journeys on my parents' atlas. I wasn't some ways also mapping out my own future. Stories I would write, trips I would take,

often dragging along with me unsuspecting friends. What I remember is like, okay, the goal was to get from New York to San Francisco as quickly as possible. And suddenly, you had rerouted our journey to go through South Eastern, South Dakota. And before I knew what was happening, I was in a field in the middle of nowhere

at the tail end of a Laura Engels Wilder live action roleplay pageant. This is Joe Piazza, writer, podcaster, and one of my best friends and co-producer of this podcast. In 2015, I dragged her four hours off our route hoping to see a pageant, but we didn't get there in time. She was very tolerant. I'm always tolerant, my friend. Yes, that's true, but my question is were you surprised when I did that?

Did it feel like you discovered some new side of me? Yeah, actually it did. I mean, you're one of my best friends, but there were things I just didn't even know about you before I discovered your deep and intense and sometimes pathological love for Loreingles Wilder. I feel like opening a closet in the house of one of your best friends and being like, hmm, what's going on in here? Why are there all these headless dolls in here? I mean, it kind of felt like that, but in a nice way. I mean, from a very young age, it felt like I had not a lot of examples of how to be in the world,

and she was just sort of how I located myself in the world, and the fact she was a real-life person, I was a big reader as a kid. And I think a lot of people who love Laura have the same experience as like you loved Anne Shirley and you loved Nancy Drew. But of course, their fictional characters in Laura was real. And she was my age when I read the books. I literally thought she'd written these books

when she was six years old. And she sort of wanted to have adventures and thought wolves were exciting. And she couldn't sit still and she had a temper. And she idolized her father. And you idolized your father? Yeah, definitely when I was that age, you know, that sort of magnetic, larger than life character

that you don't see as a real human being until you're a grown-up and have been to lots and lots of therapy. Exactly, until you unpack that. But I think too, it's been interesting realizing that she captured a lot of really complicated family dynamics before that was the norm for YA. And she talks a lot about resentment to Ma, jealousy over her

older sister and how Mary was prettier and smarter. And I was like, oh, this is also my family dynamic. And these are all the things I'm experiencing. And it was the fact that I recognize those experiences. And she wrote them down. And then people wanted to read about them. It was like, oh, these things you're living are worthwhile. The things you're experiencing, even as a little kid,

are interesting to other people. Not to me, it was such a big deal. The story of're experiencing even as a little kid are interesting to other people. Not to me was such a big deal. The story of a young girl is interesting. Like that. That's a gut punch, right? Like, oh my gosh, I'm a child. The world kind of tells me I'm insignificant, but her stories were worthy, and therefore I feel worthy. Exactly, and they're worthy in like the smallest ways. The first book in the series is Little House and The Big Woods. And it's like of all the books, it's like a fairy tale, and they're in a little cabin in Big Woods. And at the very very end,

Lauren Marriere and Bed and Pa was playing the fiddle by the fire. And the last line of that book is, I'm just gonna pull it out and read it to you. She was glad that the cozy house and pawn mom, the firelight and the music were now. They could not be forgotten. She thought, because now is now, it can never be a long time ago.

Like, even me reading that to you right now, I get the chills. I kind of have the chills. It's so philosophical. It's way more philosophical than what I read in most children's books, Sweet Valley High. Right. It's like, imagine like feeding that to a six-year-old, because of course part of the obsession of Laura is she lived in the olden days.

Like she got to travel by horse and buggy and like put her hair and braids and whatever. But like in that moment, I really was like in my bedroom, in my bed thinking, oh my God, is my now gonna be someone else's olden days? And like my six year old head explodes and I immediately pull out a little diary that someone had gave me and was like, well I'm also gonna write my life down.

Cause obviously I have to get this on paper, lick it, he's split. Pull out a little diary that someone had gave me and was like well, I'm also gonna write my life down because obviously I have to get this on paper lickety split and I have that diary still and the first line of it is I want to be a writer I don't know what kind of writer I want to be mum and I went to bargaining today To boggling is Canadian for sledding and that was like me thinking like maybe this is gonna to be the olden days sometime too, I better start writing. Little goodness in the suburbs. So from everything that you're telling me, it actually does feel like Laura Ingalls Wilder and the things that she wrote remain endlessly relevant today in lots of different ways. It certainly seems that way. And I think one of the things we're trying to unpack when we do this podcast is what it is about her

that keeps her relevant still. Because, you know, the TV show's still on, the book's still still being read, people are still traveling to see her. And like, what is it about those descriptions and those revelations that make her life so visceral, we can still relate to it. Having gone back, you know, for another reread for this podcast, what's so incredible is that

like the America that she's writing about in the late 19th century also speaks to the America that we're in right now. And in some ways it sort of speaks to where we're all going. So let's get going. The thing is, while Loringel's daughter may be my on the road, she's not actually on the way to anywhere. Her houses are literally in the middle of nowhere. They are a pilgrimage and the truest sense of the word. You have to want to go there.

You have to really want to go there. To Wisconsin, Minnesota, Iowa, Kansas, and South Dakota. And that's what we're doing. We're going on the great Laura Road Trip to figure out what this whole is. The Laura has on her readers, and on America, and what we're supposed to do with it. So let's set the scene.

Like any good road trip, there's a cast of characters. Me, obsessive, Joe, who knows very little about Lorangell's wilder and our producer Emily, a millennial who loved the TV show, which she watched on DVD. We started at Walnut Grove, Minnesota. The site of the book on the banks of Plum Creek, and even more famously, the setting of the TV show. Well, actually, we started on the banks of Plum Creek, and even more famously, the setting of the TV show. Well, actually, we started on the way to Walnut Grove. Your face towards Walnut Grove because we realized the pageant was tonight and not tomorrow as we had organized our entire chakura.

But you know what? You texted me in a panic, and I really vurgoed that shit. You did. And honestly, this was thrilling for me because as TV fan representative is like, it's like, it's like, it's like, it's great to have all that grove! Guys, what? What? We need to pay attention. What? What? We're in Wanda Grove.

Wanda Grove! Oh, stop! Hold on a minute, hold on a minute! Wanda Grove was the first place we ran into the reality that Laura's past. Really is our now. We'll get to it after the break. We'll begin to figure out where the patch is. Well, great. The signature from the show.

In the podcast, Alphabet Boys, we take you inside undercover investigations. I'm Trevor Aronson. And in our second season, we have an Alphabet soup. With the DEA, the CIA, and the FBI all mixed up in the same case. At the center of this story is Flavio, but who is Flavio? I see movies with arm dealers on TV. Okay, I'm going there for the AI, but I'm going to die.

When I land, there's Flavio in a suit. It's like, follow me. And he slams down his badge in my passport. And I'm like, uh, something's going on here. So you do personal security all over the world, and you have somebody call you and say, can you get grenades and guns for this guy in Colombia? Not, not certified grenades, a lot of ammunition.

It's a mystery wrapped around an international arms deal, who are the cops? Who are the criminals? And is anyone really who they claim to be? Listen to alphabet boys on the I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. There's a ton of stuff they don't want you to know. Does the US government really have alien technology? And what about the future of artificial intelligence, AI?

What happens when computers learn to think? Could there be a serial killer in your town? From UFOs to psychic powers, and government cover-ups, from unsolved crimes to the bleeding edge of science, history is riddled with unexplained events. We spent a decade applying critical thinking to some of the most bizarre phenomenon civilization and beyond. Each week we dive deep into unsolved mysteries, conspiracy theories and actual conspiracies. You've heard about these things, but what's the full story? Listen to stuff they don't want you to know on the iHeartRadio app

Apple podcasts or wherever you find your favorite shows. Road testers and supporters alike are lined up outside the United States Supreme Court this afternoon as the decision in the most hotly debated case in years is set to be delivered. From I Heart Podcasts Supreme, the Battle for Row, tells the story of the unlikely champions behind the landmark case, Roe V Wade. Sir, I graduated the top quarter of my class.

We just don't have a spot for you. Starring Maya Hawk as 26-year-old lead attorney, Sarah Weddington, for challenging the Texas Abortion Laws and Federal Court and Academy Award nominee, William H. Macy, as Supreme Court Justice Harry Blackman. My chief qualification being, I'm uncontroversial. You know how we both ended up on the Supreme Court?

Politics? Damn right. This may be the longest of shots, but it's also the last chance for a lot of women. Time is not the most important factor, getting it right in. Trying to get you to stand for something, man. Now go do it. getting it right in. Trying to get you to stand for something, man.

Now go do it. Listen to Supreme, the Battle for Ro, on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcasts. Okay, describe what you're seeing. I mean, I told you. There's so first off, there's so many cars here. Yeah. You would think you were at a county fair.

And now it looks like there's a whole little house on the per TV set. It does look like that. So after racing across empty farmland into the setting sun, we finally arrived in Walnut Grove to discover the pageant parking lot was already almost full. I hear a thing.

Wait, I'm sorry, but look. Charles, the parking lanes are named after characters. We quickly realize that every detail of the pageant had little house branding on it. Nothing had been left untouched. We're parked in Mary. Are we? Yeah.

I think we're parked in Caroline. Pass the gates, the concession looks like a professional kitchen. The water bottles are branded with little house logos. There are mom-paw bathrooms. And then just beyond, there is a professional kitchen. The water bottles are branded with little house logos. There are mom-pah bathrooms. And then just beyond, there is a huge stage. This is Walnut Grove, a busy growing village

on the edge of civilized art. It looks like the set for a TV show. The brain is just arrived and supplies are available. Tonight's pageant is based on the Banks of Plum Creek, the fourth book in the Little House series. It takes place in Walnut Grove, although the town is not actually mentioned in the books. Because Walnut Grove is also where the TV show is set, it makes sense that their pageant is the most Hollywood, the flashiest.

This is better than some off-robbery, stiff, good-oxtape. Their sets roll out on hydraulics. Their effects are not what you'd expect in a tiny town in the corner of seemingly empty farmland. That was real fire. There was so much energy, it was clear the crowd was dazzled, and so were we. Guys, we've really, really exceeded my expectations. Yeah, it was spectacular.

It was spectacular. It was spectacular. The whole day actually has been fairly spectacular. We came back to town the next morning, and we got to see in daylight. It looked a little different. There's a lot of empty store friends. American Legion. Insurance in real estate.

It was a lot quieter. Hard to gauge too. I don't mean just small town quiet. I mean, it was a bit too quiet. This town looks like a zombie apocalypse, isn't it? It does. Yeah. So I'm curious, what struck you the most about

Walnut Grove when we first got there for the pageant? I mean, honestly, that it was a total ghost town. Most of the businesses were closed, and they looked like they had been for a really long time. We saw no people. There was no real commerce, just a couple of shops that were open, and we had to stay at a hotel that was 30 minutes away, because Wanna Grove

didn't have one. We know the town is only 750 people, but the pageant felt like it was such a huge community effort. When we drove in the next day and it was completely empty, it was just so striking. But we did eventually find some people, and they were all in the gift shop. They were all in the gift shop for the Loringles Wilder Museum. All of them, we met the entire all in the gift shop. They were all in the gift shop for the Loringles Wilder Museum. I mean, all of them, like we met the entire town in the gift shop. I have family that has lived here for a really long time, like great-grandparents and my grandma,

who used to work here on my mom's side. There's a farm, I think it's a century farm this year. Ladies and gentlemen, this is also a fantastic. I've. Ladies, are all so. Yep. Yeah, you're fantastic. I've never thought you were a 21 year old. You're a 21 year old. We've been, have been surprised, but the gift shop is used to a crowd. Over the whole year, we can get up between 10,000 to probably 12,000 a year.

We've had 20,000 in one year. In addition to all the locals, there's also fans just passing through, like a pair of motorcycle ladies we met who were driving across the country. I have been sitting. I've been sitting. I've been sitting. I read all the books when I was little, so.

And then there were the people you might describe as professional fans. And one of the things I'm really interested in is Laura's life as a farm woman later on. And that's actually what my program was about. It was in the kitchen with Laura. The truth is we could have stayed in the gift shop all day, but we had to leave after an hour because we had an important appointment with Bill Richards, the director of the pageant. On our way to meet him, we noticed something we hadn't seen before.

It's me. What is this mural? What's boobie foods? Oh. On the side of boobie foods, the only grocery store in town was a mural. It was a 15-foot high painting of a pioneer woman, linking arms with someone wearing what

appeared to be a traditional Southeast Asian outfit. Was the pioneer woman Laura? Who was the person she was linking arms with? The little grocery store deli kind of place? Yeah, boobie. the person she was linking arms with. The little grocery store, Deli kind of place? Yeah, boobie. Boobie, that means butterfly. We asked Bill about it when we met with him back at the set of the pageant, and he told us there was a large mong community in Walnut Grove.

Yeah. Is there been a large mong community? The mong community early 2000. One time the mong community was one third of our school. Yeah. The Mung are a Southeast Asian ethnic group who do not have a nation. They're historically a refugee community and have settled all over the world, including the United States. There is an estimated 66,000 Mung living in Minnesota and they make up a little under half of walnut groves population. The mural we passed at Boo-Buy Foods is a tribute to their settling here.

And it's interesting because they saved the town in my mind. The story of the mung and walnut grove shouldn't surprise us. Immigration is the story of all American towns, even if that story does not always make it into the history books. So it's not that surprising that they're among in walnut grove, but what is surprising is why there's a large population there.

And the story is that as they were looking around, why did they come here to talk to about us? They read Laura Ingalls' founder. To be honest, when Bill told us this, we were skeptical. It seemed a little too scripted, like an episode of Little House in the Prairie, a very special episode. But it turns out Bill was right, that much like Laura and her family had settled into

this prairie town looking for new opportunities and a nice place to live, so had this other immigrant community more than a century later. Yes, Harry who owns the Ibo by store, his daughter loved the show, his daughter read the books. That's Sean Yang. He was the first Hmong council member in Wannock Grove and is a relative of Harry Yang, who opened Abu Bight foods. Back in the early 2000s, Harry's family lived closer to the Twin Cities, but there had been an economic downturn. The housing crisis was starting to bubble up. Crime had risen. He was looking for a quiet place to move his family. So he asked his wife and his kids, where should we move to?

And his daughter suggests that how about we try a little house in Prairie? And he's like, what is that? And so she explained to him, she showed him the show. He watched a couple episodes. They took a trip down there. And he decided to sit down and wantanda Grove as suggested by his daughter. He is the pioneer of the monks in southwest Minnesota here. The monks have a very family-oriented culture. So with one family came a bunch of families who settled not just in Wanda Grove, but all around southwest Minnesota.

We did account it was about a 3035 families to 130 some families in 2008 to 2012. So that was a big jump. So suddenly in the early 2000s, 75 years after the first little housebook was published, nearly four decades after the show first aired. This quiet rural town was bustling. Sean really confirmed that the mongave the town knew life. What are my neighbors says that the town is live again? Just all of these kids are out there playing biking. So when the mong families began to settle on walnut grove, the communities embraced them. And according to Bill, this was partly thanks to Laura too.

And I think one of the reasons that Walnut could handle it may be better. I mean, that's not to say that they handle it well initially. There's always this, oh, us them kind of thing. But because we've had so many different groups coming through here. So in many ways, Laura paved the way for the Mung and Walnut Grove. And it's not lost on Sean that there are parallels with Laura in the story of the Mung. I think we can relate to Laura's story very, very much. It's how hard it is to adapt into the environment.

And so we're trying to teach the other kids how can you learn from Laura's legacy and make that your own legacy if Laura, from her time, if she could make such an impact on it, how can we as a community move that forward? To me, it's inspiring how Laura's story keeps inspiring movement. I mean, even in this small town that seemed pretty desolate to us, there's still something special that happened here because of Laura.

I know, I mean, the devotion to Laura and the like, enormous distances people will travel to visit her has always fascinated me. And I remember I once said to you, could you sink of another woman? People would drive so far to see. And I just wonder if you remember what you said. Carrie Bradshaw, my friends. Exactly.

Tourbuses through the West Village for cupcakes were tourbuses across the prairie for, I don't know, pigtails and prairie dresses. But the thing is that carry isn't real and Laura is. And all this sort of talk of tourbuses reminds me of something we kept hearing about over and over again in Walnut Grove. This used to be the destination stop for Japanese TV.

I always say I'm a love-assess. There's a little house on the Prairie Japanese fan club. We've had a bus group of like 40 that came strictly from Japan to Walnut Grove. I did visit the Walnut Grove this day. I bus came here. Walnut Grove almost 20 years ago. So yeah, I think I saw some Japanese writing in the gift shops or something. Yes.

So I thought, oh, you know Japanese people come here. Like many, I assumed Laura's Japanese fan base stemmed from the television show. This is true. But like so much of history, it turns out it was far more complicated. I just realized that it was not as innocent as I originally thought. So far we've been telling the charming optimistic version of Laura's story, but like all stories,

it's complicated. There's a darker, even harmful side to Laura. We'll get to it after the break. In the podcast, Alphabet Boys, we take you inside undercover investigations. I'm Trevor Aronson. And in our second season, we have an Alphabet Soup with the DEA, the CIA, and the FBI all mixed up in the same case. At the center of this story is Flavio, but who is Flavio? I see movies with arm dealers on TV.

Okay, I'm going there for say, but I'm gonna die. When I land, there's Flavio in a suit. It's like follow me and he slams down his badge in my passport. And I'm like, uh, something's going on here. So you do personal security all over the world and you have somebody call you and say, can you get grenades and guns for this guy in Colombia? Not specified grenades, a lot of ammunition.

It's a mystery wrapped around an international arm steal, who are the cops, who are the criminals, and is anyone really who they claim to be? Listen to Alphabet Boys on the I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. There's a ton of stuff they don't want you to know. Does the US government really have alien technology? And what about the future of artificial intelligence? AI? What happens when computers learn to think? Could there be a serial killer in

your town? From UFOs to psychic powers and government cover-ups from unsolved crimes to the bleeding edge of science, history is riddled with unexplained events. We've spent a decade applying critical thinking to some of the most bizarre phenomenon civilization and beyond. Each week, we dive deep into unsolved mysteries,

conspiracy theories and actual conspiracies. You've heard about these things, but what's the full story? Listen to stuff they don't want you to know on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you find your favorite shows. [♪ OUTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪ OUTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪ [♪ OUTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪ [♪ OUTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪ [♪ OUTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪ [♪ OUTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪ [♪ OUTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪ [♪ OUTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪ [♪ OUTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪ [♪ OUTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪ [♪ OUTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪ [♪ OUTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪ [♪ OUTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪ [♪ OUTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪ [♪ OUTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪ [♪ OUTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪ [♪ OUTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪ [♪ OUTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪ [♪ OUTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪ [♪ OUTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪ [♪ OUTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪ [♪ OUTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪ [♪ OUTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪ [♪ OUTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪ [♪ OUTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪ [♪ OUTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪ [♪ OUTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪ [♪ OUTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪ [♪ OUTRO MUSIC [♪ [♪ OUTRO MUSIC [♪ [♪ [♪ OUTRO MUSIC [♪ [♪ OUTRO MUSIC [♪ [♪ OUTRO MUSIC [♪ [♪ OUTRO MUSIC [♪ [♪ OUTRO [♪ [♪ [♪ OUTRO [♪ [♪ OUTRO [♪ [♪ [♪ OUTRO [♪ OUTRO [♪ [♪ [♪ OUTRO [♪ [♪ [♪ [♪ OUTRO [♪ [♪ OUTRO [♪ [♪ OUTRO [♪ [♪ [♪ [♪ OUTRO [♪ [♪ [♪ [♪ [♪ [♪ [♪ [♪ OUTRO [♪ [♪ [♪ [♪ [♪ OUTRO [♪ [♪ [♪ [♪ OUTRO [♪ [♪ [♪ [♪ [♪ [♪ [♪ [♪ [♪ [♪ OUTRO The Road testers and supporters alike are lined up outside the United States Supreme Court this

afternoon, as the decision in the most hotly debated case in years is set to be delivered. From I Heart Podcasts Supreme, the Battle for Roe, tells the story of the unlikely champions behind the landmark case Roe V Wade. Sir, I graduated the top quarter of my class. We just don't have a spot for you. Starring Maya Hawk as 26-year-old lead attorney, Sarah Weddington, for challenging the Texas Abortion Laws

and Federal Court. And Academy Award nominee, William H. Macy, as Supreme Court Justice Harry Blackman. My chief qualification being, I'm uncontroversial. You know how we both ended up on the Supreme Court? Politics Blackman. My chief qualification being, I'm uncontroversial. You know how we both ended up on the Supreme Court? Politics?

Damn right. This may be the longest of shots, but it's also the last chance for a lot of women. Time is not the most important factor, getting it right in. It's trying to get you to stand for something, man. But go do it. Listen to Supreme, the Battle for Ro, on the I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. There's a lot of ways to look at America.

There's the optimistic view that we see in walnut grove, the story of people coming to America and building a new life, and then there's the darker, often violent, far more complicated story. Something similar happens with Laura. As a kid, she's magical, and then you dig a little deeper, and it gets a lot less simple. I think I was like a second or third grade, and I just got captured.

I fell in love with all the sensory details, and it was so different, the scale of the story was so different from where I grew up in, like a small island surrounded by the ocean. Keko Satomi was born in Japan and immigrated to America in her late 20s. She's now a librarian in Klokei, Minnesota. I am originally from Shigai, Japan, and this is my 17th year living in the United States. Keko is the same age as me. And when she was growing up in Japan, she also loved the Little House books and the TV show.

So we were only able to watch two TVs per week. And Little House series, TV series was on the Nippon National Television, NHK, Saturday evening at 6 p.m., I still remember, and this was about the show. My mom allowed to watch me and my brother. So that was kind of special. As I said, I'd known about Laura's Japanese fan base for a long time, and I'd always assumed it was from the TV show. Turns out, it runs deeper than that, all the way back to World War II. I just realized that it was not as innocent

was I originally thought. It was calculated to bring that literature for a certain process of political reasons. And I don't know, it kind of gave me a little mixed feeling about how it was introduced. What Kekos referring to here takes us all the way back to World War II. Following Hiroshima and Nagasaki, General Douglas MacArthur,

the Supreme Commander for the Allied Powers in Japan, replaced the Japanese government-approved reading list with his own. On that list was the six book in the Little House series, The Long Winter. The Long Winter is about the infamous hard winter of 1881. It's an actual historical event. There's history books written about it. It has its own Wikipedia page. That winter impacted large parts of the entire Great Plains. The town of Desmetz, South Dakota, was snowed in for nine months. Train stopped.

Everyone nearly starved. It's the darkest of the books. The hardest to read. And somewhat Argi Laura's best. In the terrible winter that followed here is Shima and Nagasaki. A lot of the suffering that the book describes was being felt at the time by the Japanese population. Laura would get fan-mailed from Japan, and she treasured it.

The Lorringles Wilder Museum in Mansfield, Missouri, found a letter from a 14-year-old Japanese girl tucked into Laura's personal copy of the Japanese translation of the Long Winter. But the Long Winter was also approved by the Occupying American Army. It definitely wasn't an innocent choice. I thought it is very interesting how children's literature can be utilized for political reasons and how it can take a role to shift people's mind to democratic minds and how Japanese people understand the American people's mind and the way of living. And so it brought my horizon and it was not as innocent as I hoped.

It goes without saying Laura's legacy of bringing people together and inspiring travels one of her charms. But there are obviously ways this can be insidious too. We actually came to Keko because of an article she published in 2019 in the Pine Not News titled, at the library. Libraries put little house series in new light.

In the piece Keko writes that she is no longer comfortable recommending the books to others, not because of their history in Japan, but because of their representation of Native Americans. One particular passage stood out to her. Laura's mother Caroline depicted a mention about the Native people, indigenous people, like a stinched lingered in their house. I remembered that and I remembered how the illustration portrayed really primitively of the indigenous people.

The scene cake was remembering is from the book Little House in the Prairie. It's a third book in the series, depending on which box set you own, and it tells the story of the Ingles moving from Wisconsin to what Laura calls Indian territory, which was in reality the Osage diminished reserve and is now the state of Kansas. The chapters titled Indians in the House and it and this book are the most controversial in the series, particularly for their depiction of Native Americans. I took that. I took that as a kid, but I didn't really think of that impact of it. So as a adult, you know, I can see what did it do to my mind.

I think it gave me a very simple view of the indigenous people. This criticism of Laura is far from new. It happened during her lifetime, but it has definitely increased in the last two decades. Consider a native child in their classroom, and they come to that sentence, the only good Indian is a dead Indian. That's Dr. Debbie Reese.

She's a highly regarded scholar of Native American studies. And for the past two decades, has run a blog called American Indians and Children's Literature. My name is Debbie Reese. I am tribally enrolled at Nambay Owinge, which is a sovereign, native nation in what is currently known as the State of New Mexico. I first became aware of Dr. Reese way back in 2006, during some sort of little house internet rabbit first became aware of Dr. Rees way back in 2006 during some sort of little house internet rabbit hole I'd gone down. This was still when I was surprised

that other people were as interested in the books as I was. Dr. Rees' blog may make you rethink many beloved childhood classics in ways that are often uncomfortable. I started thinking, OK, what's in those books that's helping shape what people think about who we are. The books that our parents give to us are ones that we have an emotional attachment to. So I was finding in those kinds of books that are readily available, lots of problematic imagery of who native people are.

According to a white point of view that is released, they're your type, they're romantic and just wrong over and over in every direction. In 2006, Dr. Reese wrote about the Little House books. Here's some of what she said. I suggest you take a second look at Little House. Note the ways that Native peoples are described and consider whether or not the book ought to be set aside and used, perhaps, in context where readers are able to think critically about racism and colonization.

Seems pretty reasonable, no? Still, people's passion for these books, and for Laura, runs deep, obviously. Exhibit A is the person you're currently listening to. Criticizing these books was for a lot of people, like taking a childhood photo album of your most treasured memories and setting it on fire. But Dr. E's argues that these books don't belong in schools anymore, at all. I think the harm is too great because it's not just that harm. It's the context of larger, more widespread harm. So it's just one more thing that native children have to endure.

And it's one more thing that non-native children go through that affirms those mistaken ideas that they get just as a matter of life in the United States. So this is what we're reckoning with on the road with Laura. People who love her, who travel miles, sometimes cross oceans to visit her. And people who argue she no longer has a place on our shelves. And me, a person who won't let her go, but who is also trying to figure out how to love her. So, Gwyneth,

McNichol, you have been handed the assignment that you've dreamt about since you were eight years old. You get to travel to all of the Laura Ingalls houses across the country and report out who this woman was, her significance to culture, all of it. This is your dream. But I gotta tell you, I also think that it is going to be really hard. Yes. And the truth is, I think it should be hard. I think that when you hold something this fundamental to yourself and the thing you are holding is this complicated and has been

in many ways harmful to people, one of the responsibilities of this sort of love is that you have to be honest with yourself about the thing you are loving Like it's not even a question of like should Laura be canceled I'm not capable of canceling Laura like she's too integral to who I am and what I am so if you can't get rid of the person or the thing that you love. You have to look at it and really understand who I'm loving to grasp the ways in which they are flawed and to be really, really honest about that. I think what I'm starting to realize is that the many ways that Laura seems flawed are also the many ways that America is flawed. And you're now getting your dream assignment. But it's like, be careful what

you wish for, which is also a very American thing. Be careful what you wish for in the American dream, because there is always another side to it. Yeah. I don't know if Canadians have American dreams, but if I do, then in many ways for me, Laura is my American dream. I wanted to be a writer, living the life that I'm writing about, and I wanted to be on the road and to be having adventures and that's exactly what we're doing.

Laura's story is one of movement. The only way to really find hers to be on the road. I also happen to believe you can only really know America from the road. But enjoying the American road is an experience that is often limited to a certain group of people. Lost in books like On the Road in Little House, are the groups of people who aren't able to freely take these journeys. And what about the people who were present before America actually had roads? On this trip, we're hoping to get the whole story. Next week, we're going to look at the story Laura tells.

We're going to go back to where it all began. How Laura, at 63 years old, decided to take pen to paper and write down her life story. What inspired her to do so? And how exactly did a farm wife and rural Missouri find her way into New York City publishing houses? That's next week on Wilder. Wilder is written and hosted by me, Glonospic Nickel. Our story editors are Joe Piazza and Emily Marinoff.

Our senior producer is Emily Marinoff. Our producers are Mary Dew and Shino Zaki. Sound design and mixing by Amanda Rose Smith. Our amazing theme and additional music was composed by Elise McCoy. We are executive produced by me, Joe Piazza, Nikki Yutor, and Ali Perry. Special thanks to Bill and Walnut Grove for connecting us with everyone and to Koo Lawer for connecting us with the Mung Community and Walnut Grove. And Raya Anthony who calmly fielded our middle of the night, middle of Minnesota emergency travel requests. Please see our show notes if you want to know more about the people we interviewed, the places we visited, the books we mentioned, you can also find our

contact info there if you want to write to us with your own thoughts and questions. Thank you for listening. See you next week. The South West West West West West West West West West West West West West West West West West West West West West West West West West West West West West West West West West West West West West West West West West West West West West West West West West West West West West West West West West West West West West West West West West West West West West West West West West West West West West West West West West West West West West West West West West West West West West West West West West West West West West West West West West West West West West West West West West West West West West West West West West West West West West West West West West West West West West West West West West West West West West West West West West West West West West West West West West West West West West West West West West West West West West West West West West West West West West West West West West West West West West West West West West West West West West West West West West West West West West West West West West West West West West West West West West West West West West West West West West West West West West West West West West West West West West West West West West West West West West West West West West West West West West West West West West West West West West West West West West West West West West West West West West West West West West West West West West West West West West West West West West West West West West West West West West West West West West West West West West West West West West West West West West West West West West West West West West West West West West West West West West West West West West West West West West West West West West West West West West West West West West West West West West West West West West West West West West West West West West West West West West West West West West West West West West West West West West West West West West West West West West West West West West West West West West West West West West West West West West West West West West West West West West West West West West West West West West West West West West West West West West West West West West West West West West West West West West West West West West West security all over the world and you had somebody call you and say can you get renamed and done for this guy in Colombia? That's not certain. It's a mystery wrapped around an international arm deal, alphabet boys, on the I Heart Radio app, Apple podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. So there is a ton of stuff they don't want you to know. Yeah, like does the US government really have alien technology?

Or what about the future of AI? What happens when computers actually learn to think? Could there be a serial killer in your town? From UFOs to psychic powers and government cover-ups, from unsolved crimes to the bleeding edge of science, history is riddled with unexplained events. Listen to stuff they don't want you to know on the I Heart Radio app Apple podcasts or wherever you find your favorite shows. From I Heart Podcasts Supreme, The Battle for Row,

tells the story of the unlikely champions behind the landmark case, Row V-Wade, starring Maya Hawk as 26-year-old lead attorney Sarah Weddington for challenging the Texas abortion laws in federal court. And Academy Award nominee William H. Macy as Supreme Court Justice Harry Blackman. Time is not the most important factor, getting it right is. Listen to the podcast Supreme, the Battle for Roe on the I Heart Radio app Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.