Woman Evolve with Sarah Jakes Roberts - Capacity for Stress w/ Dr. Thema Bryant

Episode Date: May 11, 2022

Chiiillleee, the Saints say W.E. are too blessed to be stressed & too anointed to be disappointed, but the devil is a LIE! This week SJR is joined by Dr. Thema Bryant, an ordained minister, clinical psychologist, author, AND president-elect of the American Psychological Association—yaaasss, put some respect on her name! Together they explore our stress capacity, the need of a sacred pause, intergenerational trauma, & so much MORE! Sis, Dr. Thema came for our edges & eyelashes, but that’s alright! W.E. wanna know…Are you ever able to have ease? Is it possible to live a stress-free life? Can you love God and still struggle? Lean into this powerful episode & reclaim the truth of who you are with Homecoming, the book: DrThema.com/Homecoming + the podcast: DrThema.com/Podcast. Delegation, do you wanna REVOLUTION? Whoop, Whoop! W.E. said, do you wanna REVOLUTION? Whoop, Whoop! Then bop on over to WomanEvolveTour.com!

God can't bless you for ten to be or who you can care yourself to. He can only bless you and the lane that was created for you. I feel that for somebody like that. You don't need no itch, it's a two-year-old boundary. What? I don't need your lights, I don't need your elevation. All I need is a God party for me that's there for all things. All things, all things.

Try. Let me tell you something. One thing is for sure, I miss you when we don't get to get together like every day, I look forward to us coming together on this podcast. I see all of your comments. I see you guys downloading and subscribing and rating and talking about how the podcast is helping you. I've been so busy and stressed and blessed, but also stressed and also blessed. And it's just a vicious cycle, but you know what? I know that

you understand because this week at Woman Evolveg we've been talking all about our revolutionary capacity for stress. Like is it possible that anyone could be even more stressed than we are stressed? And so on this episode, I decided to get some help from Dr. Tamer Bryan, who better to talk to us about stress than her. Turn up the volume because you'll want to hear all of the things that she has to say, whether you've been in a place of stress or are coming out of a place of stress and just need to make sense of it all, this episode is going to help you. Let's get into it with Dr. Tama.

Hi Dr. Tama. Hello. How are you? I'm doing great. Thank you. I'm so looking forward to this conversation. Oh, beautiful. So am I.

I'm so glad that we have time to do it. Me too. I've seen so much of your work. And I know it's going to help me. And then everyone else just gets to get the overflow of what happens here. Oh, thank you. And let me say I appreciate so much

your transparency and your ministry. It is really healing and liberating, and so many people are set free by your honesty. So thank you. Thank you. Well, let's set some more people free today. Yes, let's do it. Dr. Taiman, when I think about mental health awareness

and I think about one of the number one drivers for my mental health fluctuating. I cannot help but recognize that stress is playing an incredible role in my mental health from day to day, some from hour to hour, depending on what's happening, the stress of life. I'm wondering, because I know you have a book that talks about overcoming fear and trauma

to reclaim your whole authentic self, it's called homecoming. What do you think the connection between stress and fear is? Absolutely. So stress affects our nervous system. And our nervous system is designed to respond in cases of crises, but for many of us, it's crises after crises.

So that keeps us in a place of being dysregulated. And as a result of that, we become fearful. So we can be anxious about what might happen. And some of those fears, you can say, are not really grounded in reality. But for many of us, those are fears that could actually take place. And it can be a range of fears

from how people will respond, whether we'll be rejected or accepted or validated, whether we'll be harmed or whether we'll be helped. And so we learned very early to scan our environment. And so we're often looking at the environment, trying to figure out, are you safe? Is this place safe? Am I going to be okay here? And so many people are living on eggshells and poised to exit because you want to jump ship before somebody else jump ship or before you are evicted or moved out. And so the stress of life can keep us very fearful.

And when we're living from a place of fear, we're living more from desperation than being rooted in the truth of who we are. Do you think living from a place of fear is why we often find ourselves on this fine line between, I'm just looking out for myself and strategizing about the possibilities in a way that is healthy

and necessary for my children and for my responsibilities versus I'm taking in everything and feeling stuck. Like what is the difference between just being a responsible adult that looks at things from every perspective to someone who's really inundating themselves with thoughts that are harmful for their development. Yes, great question. So it's important for us to look at, am I ever able to have ease? Ooh, right? If I'm in a perpetual place, a fear anxiety,

I don't know, because that was rude with you to say. You're not going to keep talking. Like we're doing this, Marcus, in the face. Am I ever at ease? Okay. Okay. And I love that. I call it sacred pause, sacred pause to check in with myself. I'm like, what does that feel like in my body?

Right? What does that feel like in my sleep? What does that feel like in my body, right? What does that feel like in my sleep? What does that feel like in my mind? Right. Do I ever have peace? Because as you name, sometimes we can think, well, I'm just the responsible one. But if my responsibility has no rest to it, if I am the responsible one, but I'm not able to lean on anybody else, I'm not able to receive help that I'm always guarded and defensive and strategizing, then I'm still in a trauma state. So, so this is what I don't like about you and Dr. Anita. And I know this your first time on my

podcast and it's not nice to say you don't like somebody. But we have the conversation and then some kind of way you be therapisting me, like right here on the spot in front of everybody and I don't know how I feel about it. You know, that just helped me understand a lot about my life because when I wake up in the morning, I've been doing this recently, where I wake up at like 4.35 a clock.

And I'm not, I'm not a morning person. Like I would not be the one who says I can get up early, but I was doing this challenge and I had to get up in order to complete my task. And what I learned about getting up that early is that it allows me to have stillness. And it allows me to have time for myself because when I wake up to the demands of someone else,

whether it's my daughter or my husband or my cell phone going off, I start the day off balance. And I think that we may have to steal moments of ease in a life that is constantly moving. Yes, absolutely. I love that you've discovered that because it's actually one of the recommendations is to wake up before you have to get up. One of the recommendations is to wake up before you have to get up. Right? So we set our alarm for the time we need to jump out of bed. We've already started the day off balance, right?

Because now it's go, go, go, or people who press news a million times. And then, you know, you think you gave yourself a buffer, but you're literally waking up at the time you need to jump up. And so I have to fill my well, like you fill your well in the morning. So I set the tone for my day. If I don't do that, then I am going through my day in a lot of ways, very thirsty, very empty and easily irritated and easily thrown off. But when I fill my well, then people can show up and do

whatever they're going to do. And I'm already grounded. And so I'm so glad you discovered that in the mornings. Yeah, I'm having a sacred pause moment because I feel like I found a way for me to show up in my life because the thing about stress is that it also makes you feel inadequate. Because if I am stressed, then maybe I can't handle it. Maybe I don't deserve to be here. Maybe I need to quit. When maybe what we need instead is to find those moments

of ease, to steal them and create them so that we feel capable of showing up in the life that is a blessing, right? A lot of times what we're stressed about are blessings, but because we're stressed, we can't even receive the anointing connected to the life that we live in. Which means we don't get the anointing that it is a sign to bring forth in us either. Yes, it's so true what you're saying that stress builds in security and let me say for gifted people as well That when you are gifted we also have to learn

Boundaries and saying no which is different from how a lot of us were raised I know we're both preachers kids pastors kids and we're often in the church taught If you have the gift, whenever, whenever someone asks of the gift, you must say yes. Right? And so realizing that not every assignment is my assignment, right? There are many, many gifted people. And so I'm not a many Messiah.

And so I would be less stressed if I stop saying yes to things I don't need to say yes to. Right. So then being restful in that ease is not only about my sleep, but about the rhythm of my day and my week, where I can have freedom to say no, which will then energize me for the things I actually need to say yes to. Okay, so we're talking a lot about day to day and how we show up in our lives from a place of rest and being anchored and peaceful. I want to talk a little bit about, I don't even know if this is a thing, but I'm glad I'm talking to you because you can help me clean up whatever I mess up. But the stress of decades of trauma

or the stress of generational stress and how it shows up in our life, I wanna talk about the stress that we carry from our trauma and the stress that we carry that has been projected onto us and how can we even separate the two? So it has what we would call a cumulative effect. It builds on each other.

And it can multiply or magnify what we're holding. So I'm so glad you named it because a part of the stress we carry didn't start with us. That we receive our mother's anxiety, we receive our father's anxiety and despair. So that intergenerational piece, you know, you think about how does it get passed down. So one way it gets passed down is in the body. So they've actually done research that shows trauma shifts the brain. And then that can get passed down in the generations.

The beautiful part, something called neuroplasticity, which means the brain can change, is then healing can shift the brain as well. And then I can pass that down. You can pass that new feeling down to your children. But not only does it show up in our bodies, it shows up in what we were taught. And so when you had parents and grandparents, like, you know, within our heritage that

had to be in survival mode, then we received messages like, always stay ready. Never let people see you weak. Always basically have that mask on. Always be blessed and highly favored. Never showed a brokenness. And so those kinds of scripts are stressful. You know, you put that on the weight of children that at all times even when you're breaking, you must look excellent. So then there is not room for our humanity or our healing.

healing. So we notice it being passed out also by how we saw our families navigate the world. How did they handle stress? And we can find ourselves repeating those same things, doing those same things and haven't really thought about it. So some of the things are helpful and some of the things did not serve them and do not serve us. So wanting to break that cycle. And then you name our own trauma, right, as well of what has happened in our lives. And one of the myths is that time heals wounds. And that's a lie. Time by itself is not going to shift you. You know, even if it was when you were five year old, eight years old, and some people think it was so long ago, why does it still bother me? Well, I've never had room in space to even grieve it.

We want people to jump to the heeled and strong and resilient and better. And I heard one minister in a chaplaincy course. He said, every church now has a praise team, but what we need is a lamentation team. What if people don't feel like turning to their neighbor? What if they don't feel like running a lap? Is it real sanctuary? Can I show up really as I am? Even if that's not the top of the world, even if that's not high praise, is there a place in our sanctuary and in our friendships for those who are in the valley

of the shadow of death. Pausing. I'm not I'm not further than I just pause because yeah. I think that that helped me understand what I think happens at Waman Evolve. I think that when we are together in a room that maybe it's the transparency, maybe it's the vulnerability, but it gives people permission to say, out, and we don't leave there, but we start there. And I wonder what role do you think connection can play

in as creating space for someone to say, I'm not doing okay. And how do we become that person who can receive that without ingesting it ourselves and not being okay? Like what is that dynamic? Right. I love that. And and beautiful.

The spaces that you all are creating and building because transparency is contagious. And when you have people who are respected and people know you love God. And so if you love God and can struggle in that way, right, is that it frees up the permission instead of that myth of, you know, I call it emotional prosperity gospel, which is like, you know, I love God. I'll be joyful every day, right? You know, but I can be blessed and stressed, and that's the truth, right?

I could be grateful, grateful, and still disappointed. And so then as you name the importance of community bearing witness, and that, you know, was the gift of in the old school church testimony. That lets us know that it's possible right because what happens is when people are in moments of devastation they're looking around to see is their life after this and if the only people who are talking about it are the people who are still in

devastation, then there is no hope, right? And many of us, once we work through it, we no longer speak about it. So then people don't know. They think, well, you look all great up there. It must, your life must have been easy. Yeah. So people like to say, and it's like, I'm glad you think so. I'm glad you think so. Do you think is there a way to live stress-free? Like, is there a way to live constantly at ease? And I asked this because I feel like that's what we're all reaching for, but we're not sure that it actually exists. Right, right. So it's another beautiful question because there is something called healthy stress.

So healthy stress is Motivating. It's like adrenaline. It's like if someone just accepted the called a preach and they say they're nervous. I would say that's good, right? But you're taking it seriously, right? If you're just like, oh, I got it I got it, you know, we would give a little pause. It's like you sure you have it. So when, so you can ask yourself, the nerves that I feel, the stress that I feel, is it motivating? Is it mobilizing? Is it energizing?

Do I feel nervous, but capable or nervous and with God? I'm capable or is it leaving me stuck? stagnant empty despairing wow right I'm just let you just get you in and I'm just still listening to see what else comes because I think that that's such Those are such necessary things for us to understand that there is a healthy stress and that that stress is there to serve us into becoming us and discovering who we are and what we are capable of. I want to talk for a minute about someone who feels completely at the end of their rope and like they can't handle anything else. And what do we say to them? How do we help them to find that place of ease?

Yeah, beautiful. And this is so important because the answer is actually the opposite of what we often think. And I would say the first thing you give them is sacred presence. Because sometimes we avoid them until we think of what we think is the very perfect thing to say. And what that perfect thing to say often feels like to the person is cliche and like a pep talk. And when we come to someone who is despairing with these little catch phrases, or even just our favorite scripture, it can actually be silencing, right?

Because what I may be communicating is, if you repeat this verse, everything should be fine. So let me see you tell me everything is fine. Right? So instead of showing up with the pep talk, I wonder if we can think about the ministry of sitting someone, sitting with someone in the valley to help remind them who they are until they have the strength to get up and we walk through it together. Well, you know why we can't do that.

It's because we're not sitting in our own valleys. Yes. So like if I'm not sitting in mine, I definitely don't want to sit in yours. That's right. And the faith that we have to offer someone may not be in the cliche, it may not be in the scripture. It is in the testimony of this was my valley and I sat in it and overcame. Don't you think that we avoid people's despair, darkness,

and disappointment? Because I'm running from mine. So I can't run into yours. Yes. We have often had no practice with people showing up for us. So then you'll have people who will say things like, well, I was molested and I just got over it. So I don't know what she keeps crying about. Yeah. So you never had your space. And now you don't know that it's needed or even how to give it.

Wow. So sometimes it's about learning to give what I never received, which requires what you're referring to as that self-reflection of what did I need to hear in that moment, even if I never received, which requires what you're referring to as that self-reflection of what did I need to hear in that moment, even if I never got it, right? Because sometimes we get amnesia. Like we can get very forgetful about those seasons

of our lives and just go into this idea of tough love. And I think tough love is often a cover and a justification for cruelty and insensitivity. Right. So instead to reflect back what people are sharing of, I don't have to make you say it's not painful, right, or like someone is grieving the loss of a loved one. And we say things like, well, at least they're in a better place. Yeah.

Well, at least you had them for the time you had them. God needed them for his heavenly choir. And it's like, you know, let's come all the way into our humanity. And God will meet us there of you, miss your mother, you know, your mission sister. Yes. It's painful. It's painful to not be able to just pick up the phone and call them. So let's be there. That is so good to me. I'm thinking about people who are finally receiving permission in this conversation to be where they are. I read a book called Homecoming about healing your inner wounded child chat it came out decades ago. I love it. I love that your book is called Homecoming 2 because there is a coming to oneself that I think empowers us to show up fully.

How would you define what homecoming is? Not necessarily even the book, but what it means for a person to come home. Yes. To come home to yourself is to reclaim the truth of who you are without the shame or the distortions. To tell yourself the truth and then live from that truth. Then you're at home, no matter who's around. Okay, so I'm going to work from my own story because I'm hearing.

So I want to understand what this homecoming look like Mm. Okay, so I'm gonna work for my own story because I'm hearing, so I wanna understand what this homecoming look like for my life, because I want to serve hopefully as an example for someone else. So to live in the truth of my trauma, to live in the truth of my choices and truth and decisions without shame. How do you, because this has been,

I think one of my greatest learning curves when it comes to just living from a place of coming to myself, is like how do you release yourself from the self disappointment, the penalizing of self self-disappointment, the penalizing of self so that you are no longer judging a version of who you used to be while becoming who you want to be at the same time. Yeah, so good. So two things. One is we have to recognize what does it look like when I'm not at home. is we have to recognize what does it look like when I'm not at home. So if you're willing to share, I'll ask you emotionally or in terms of your behavior, what do you look like,

feel like, or what are the things you're doing when you're disconnected or not grounded in yourself? I am living in my head, rehearsing memories, rehearsing things that I didn't do well. I am having a lot of negative self-talk. I am skeptical of what other people say about me. And I am not motivated to try and do anything

that would perhaps make my life better or make me feel better, because I don't think that I deserve the better based off of what I did. Yeah, thank you. Thank you for the truth. And what has it cost you? I think the greatest cost is the inability to really receive my life and to live in it from a place of enjoyment

without having a fear that it could be taken away from me at any moment. Sacred pause. And if it aligns with you, if you can just place one hand on your heart, one hand on your belly, cleansing breath. It's a lot of pressure and stress to never be at home as you've said in your own life, in your own blessing because of the fear, which is that survival mode. And so the second part of the answer is compassion, self-compassion. So you can release your hands, but it's about acknowledging, I miss the me that either I haven't been in a long time, or the me I've never been.

I haven't been in a long time or the me I've never been. Why? So however long your survival mode started, right? That's when that tension showed up. My body heart spirit. And so what it takes is actually revisiting those stories and to look at it as if it was someone else's story. Because often we are harder on ourselves than we are on other people, right? If another sister came up to you and told you her testimony as your testimony,

you wouldn't blame her. Wow. You wouldn't. You wouldn't say, oh my gosh, what were you thinking? That was foolish. That was the, you know, so we can be compassionate, some people come more compassionate toward others than ourselves. And we also want to recognize the illusion of control. We put a lot of weight on our younger selves who didn't know what we knew, right? So I'm judging myself through the mindset of what I know now and can't believe at 19. I did that at 16. I did that at 22 last year. I did that, right?

Because I didn't know. I didn't know. And so it can help us to release it to say, I'm going to own the part that's my baggage. But one, I'm going to stop carrying the baggage for other people's behavior. Right? So the ways in which my life set me up for the choices that I made. So we want to connect the dots because some people will say to themselves, I don't know why I did that. It didn't make sense, but I tell people, if you take me father enough back in your story, it actually makes sense. Wow.

Right? So once I realize the setup of like, oh, I know why at that age, that's where my mind was, then I can give myself a lot more compassion. We're coming off the heels of Mother's Day and it would be remiss of me to not acknowledge the stress that so many mothers experience in trying to create a better path for their children, whether that path is a better emotional path or perhaps it's literally a more stable financial path than they've had. What do you say to the woman who is experiencing the stress of trying to make a better future without maybe the support that she needs, whether that support

is an village or even the internal emotional wherewithal to feel like she's capable of manifesting the vision that she has in mind. Yeah. So to moms, I would say your breath is important. Your needs are important. Your joy is important. Your wellness and wholeness. All of those things are important. And the dreams you desire to make come true for your children. That is also not too late for you.

Wow. And so to not forget yourself, not to neglect yourself, not to erase yourself, trying to be this mythic idea of what the ideal mother, and especially the ideal black mother, or the ideal Christian mother looks like, because often the model that we have been taught is one of self-iracure. Where you become a mom and like and your and your world stops, right? But you have dreams and goals and needs as well and when we don't attend to our mental health and these

other pieces, it also is gonna affect our parenting. So to not always put yourself last, which usually means I never get to myself. And then in terms of the lack of support, I wanna say sometimes we have to shift our timeline, right? That, you know, for example, I teach in a graduate school program and, you know, there was a husband and father who was in the program and he was in my lab and he was

turning in all his things on time. And there was a young woman in the program who was married with children and she was always asking for extensions. And so she stayed after lab meeting with me one day and was very upset and said, you know, I'm a parent just like him and I just feel so embarrassed because my stuff is always late. I said, let me help you with this. Your lab mate who is a husband has shared with me that his wife bought him ear plugs so he will not be disturbed at night. He sleeps through the night, and then he has protected time to do his school work,

where he is not allowed, no one can bother daddy, right? That is not your life, Mom. And so to compare yourself to him is unfair. So yes, you're gonna finish the program, what she did, and it also might take you some more time. And so we have to release these false comparisons when we don't have the same support somebody else is receiving.

And also the last thing I would just say about that is release the need to be the strong one in your circle and develop some mutual friendships, some reciprocal iron sharpens iron. And so if you're the strong one in your group, you need another group. You need another group that where we can emotionally, spiritually, practically support each other. You know, I have a group of powerful women that meet once a month and everybody receives and everybody gives.

And that's a different kind of dynamic. Nobody leaves drained. And so that's what we need to cultivate in our lives. Who's that draining? Because we are any know who the people are. We see the message, we see the post. And then take it on as our responsibility to fix whatever's going on with them.

I feel like so many women have, and maybe men do too. I ain't never been a man. So I can't speak to that. Ain't no woman though. And I feel like we have a savior complex where we feel like if it's broken, it's my job to nurture it back to health. And so a lot of men that I know, like if it's broken, maybe it needs to stay broken, like in life. It's made up to my job.

The things in my husband is good for that. Yes. Yes. To say to yourself, I don't need any more projects. Right. Sometimes we have surrounded ourselves with ministry and there is no space for reciprocity. And so that can speak to a issue within us, because see when I am the one pouring,

no one has to see me, right? There's no vulnerability there. I'm the one that's just speaking life to you, but we all benefit from having spaces where we can come up off the stage or come up off being the strong one or the mini Messiah and show up in honesty, that's freedom and that's where growth takes place.

You know that's so good because as a leader, I can always tell the person who is like so committed to serving but also doesn't want to be seen. For me, that builds a distress because I don't want you just because of how you serve. Like, I want to know who you are. And when I don't have access to who you are, I feel unsafe because I just don't know what all is under there. And I think that part of being in relationship with someone in any capacity is having the privilege

of getting to know them. So that you understand what moves them and what excites them and I'm excited as a leader to continue to cultivate relationship with my team that allows them to be seen and for me to be seen too. Yes, and it's such a beautiful, liberating, different model of leadership. And this is one of the things I think a lot of churches misunderstood the data. So there's this max exodus from churches, from young adults, and the Pew Research Group and others have done these studies to find out the issue. And it came out that people wanted more transparency, right?

They wanted not to just be high and lift it up, but relatable in a sense, or real. People in realness. So how did churches interpret that? Well, now they all want pastors who wear jeans with like ripped jeans and underwear. Right. So they just changed their uniform.

And they're like, now we're relatable. And it's like, where's your heart? Right. Where is the truth? Because one of the things about trauma survivors is we had to develop the capacity to discern people quickly. So we read real and we read fake very easily. And so when people are up there or call themselves leaders

and what you feel is that fakeness, as you said, there's no trust. And I can't get anything if I can't trust you. And so the truth telling is necessary. Okay, so we have some truth to tell in this advice question. I don't know where it's heading, but I do want to say that this advice question in this particular episode does contain a potentially triggering discussion about domestic violence abuse and may not be suitable for younger audiences or for someone who's still navigating

that pain within their own heart. So listen to your discretion is strongly advised. I'm going to get into the question now. Hey Pastor Sarah, let me start by saying thank you for your obedience and using your platform to share with women like me all over the world. Your light, your story, and your transparency is truly a blessing to me.

I'm a faithful listener of the Waman Evolve podcast, and I never would have thought that I would be the one who would ever submit an advice question, but here it goes. For the last couple of months, I've experienced emotional abuse and a relationship that I, by the grace of God, was able to pick up enough courage to walk away from.

I have been in therapy, and for the most part, have gained some really good knowledge and tips on moving forward and forward in my previous experience. I know that as time progressed things will get better, but one of the things that I do now, do know now, is that I do not recognize in the person I have become after the abuse. Okay, I do not recognize the person that I have become after the abuse. I find myself reacting to things in ways that I never would have. I'm a lot more emotional, anxious, and sometimes certain things trigger my memory. I know that those things come with the territory.

And my therapist has given me tips to use such as feel what I'm feeling, journaling, and other things. And those things are great. But I often ask God on repeat, when will this season of my life be over? When will I get back to normal? When will I recognize the woman that I see in the mirror? I've never struggled with depression or anxiety until this point and I want to know when things will go back to normal. My question is, how can I be patient and effective

in what God is trying to do in this season of my life? I know this won't be forever, but why do the good they seem to be so far away? Thank you. Thank you for your courage, and I want to say you are not alone. And I appreciate that you were already tapped into the ministry, and I think that's important for us to name because sometimes we have this idea that those of us who are on the faith walk will never have these valleys. We bring up these issues as if it's something to help people out there like in the world, right? But in our on our pew within us are these challenges. And I want to name, there is nothing shameful

about what you were desiring. You were desiring love. Because some people say, like, how did I end up here? You were desiring love. You were desiring companionship. And I am so glad that you were able to escape in terms of not recognizing yourself. I want to let you know in the season you're in,

you're in good company. Monica Coleman, who has a wonderful book called Bipolar Faith, talks about how after the cross, Jesus was unrecognizable, even to his disciples. Right, people didn't know it was him. That's how what trauma does is it can leave you unrecognizable to yourself or to other people. It changes you. And so giving yourself the space and permission to heal, which is a part of what you're doing in therapy. And I think what happens when you say,

how is often we're looking to myself and is bad news and good news for you. So the bad news is you're not going to be her. You're not going to be her. you're not going to be her. You're not going to be her. Oh, Dr. Tamic, can you hold on one second fee? You didn't know, right? The internet connection is unstable and I want to hear the good news and the bad news. We're going to try and get that. Is it you started moving again? So, okay. I can hear you. Can you hear us?

Okay. Yes. Yeah. I can hear you. First, your image was frozen, but now it's moving some. Yep. And what about me? Yes. Okay. The good news and the bad news about getting back to the way things were.

Right. So the bad, there's good news and bad news. The bad news is you're not going to be who you used to be because our experience is shape us but it won't just shape us in terms of the negative but it shapes us with new wisdom. So there are some warning signs you wouldn't have known to look out for before that even though right now you feel like they're triggers and you can't discern there are ways that you are tapped in or tuned in to yourself, to other people, that you didn't have before. There's a clarity about what you want

and what you will not tolerate. So while we often think about post-traumatic stress, there can also be post-traumatic growth. Wow And so you are evolving and growing. And so release the timeline and be present for the process. Well, you said everything I was going to say because I so empathize and sympathize with the idea of I want to think is going to go back to the way they were. And I think it's one day that like how they were is over. Those days have come to an end and that doesn't necessarily have to have grief connected to it. If I'm willing to mine the experience to get the gold and the wisdom that is a result

of what I've gone through. So that was so beautiful. I love that mind the wisdom. I talk about pulling the wisdom out of my wounds. Yeah. I'm pulling it out of there so that trauma affects us, but it doesn't define us, but it has an impact. So, allowing myself to recognize that and then surrounding myself with safer spaces. Some of us, our healing is delayed because we are around unhealthy people and unhealthy relationships. So I would encourage the writer and for others to not jump out of one harmful place

and into another, right, give yourself healing room and breathing room. So then you can go forward with some clarity. And then one more thing I will say, a part of the healing will only take place in relationship. Right. So while I say there's an internal process, I have plenty of clients who, in therapy, they sound ready for relationship, but in the abstract is one thing, right? When you're actually in the presence of somebody, that's putting it, that's the application of like, now what does it really look like to not cancel the date because you were the same colon as the other person, right?

So a part of your healing will take place in relationship. I hate that you said that. We almost started turning the corner and we are full circle back to where we started because when I first met my husband, could not tell me nothing. I was on top of the world. I was healed. I had my own house.

I was taking care of my children. I had a career path I was moving towards. And I was like, listen, I'm glad that it didn't work out. Look at me, I'm doing fine, I'm excellent. Then we got made, and I'm like, you rub me, you rubbing up against things that I thought were okay, and maybe they weren't okay, and maybe I had issues and struggles, and there's a humility.

We want healing to be empowering and make us just invincible. And like, there's this force filled around us to be empowering and make us just invincible. And like there's this force filled around us because I'm healed and now this will never happen to me again. And I am beginning to learn that healing is actually humility, that it makes you more empathetic and makes you more gentle and makes you more open to the areas where you can grow and improve

because healing the cause, the major issue, the major bullet wound is one thing, but healing the area around it and those micro tears that we didn't see in the process, that makes us humble. I love that and it's so true that healing and growth are uncomfortable. That's the growing pains

because I'm having to do it another way, right? Our defenses and our go to, that's how we're used to navigating. So if you tell me like not to be compared at all the time or not to shut down immediately, that's gonna be uncomfortable. So like leaning into the discomfort, knowing my healing is on the other side of that.

It's me, okay, so I'm gonna share a proud moment because now you're my therapist and we at the end of my therapy session. But it's so funny, so I've had that where I don't speak up, I shut down immediately and my husband is very direct and he wants to know he wants me to speak up. He's like, just tell me whatever's in your mind right now

and I'm like, this is nothing, I feel like it's closing in on me. But the other day we were talking and we've got a lot going on with the house and the kids and he was traveling. And he was like, if you needed me to come home, you should just tell me that you need me to come home. And I was like, just because I had a stressful day doesn't mean that I need you to come home.

Like we're in a stressful season. And so yes, I had a stressful day. But it was me being able to not shut down, to not get upset that he was making me feel like I couldn't handle it. But to say, it's okay for me to feel overwhelmed that you left. And at the clock at night, I'm gonna go to bed. I'm gonna get some great rest.

And I'm gonna wake up tomorrow ready to win the day. But I was able to advocate for myself and my husband was like, you know, I just love you. And to see him adjust to where I was, help me to realize that I have more space in the relationship than I gave myself credit for. And so I'm learning to not be. And you wanna talk about stress,

it is stressful in the beginning because you don't know what the reaction's gonna be. But the more we step into our truth, those who are called to walk with us will navigate that truth with us. And my husband's been impeccable at doing that. I love it. And so that's an important piece for people to know, tell the truth. And then their reaction will let you know the future. Right. If I'm afraid to speak my truth in your presence and I speak it and now you look at me some kind of way that is negative, then maybe you're not the one

to walk with me, whether in friendship or otherwise, but as you have named those who are called to emotionally equipped, spiritually equipped to journey with us, they will be able to handle and hold and appreciate our truth. Well, Dr. Tamin, thank you for holding my truth today. And for Handle Army. You are welcome.

I'm so glad to be with you and to be with your healing community involved in community. Yeah. Thank you. We love you so much. Love you too God bless. Take care. Now y'all know I couldn't let this episode in without giving a huge thanks to Dr. Tama for her time, expertise and words of wisdom. We are truly so honored. Delegation, the co-host seat is still warm if you want to join me. Simply email a one to two minute video about why you should be my next co-host at podcastatwomenevolve.com or send your advice question to the same email account and tune in to hear your question answered on a future episode.

I love you. Find your place of ease this week. Live from it. Breathe from it. You matter. Take care. You