Woman Evolve with Sarah Jakes Roberts - God Calls the Real You w/ Hosanna Wong

Episode Date: September 18, 2024

Before hitting the stage at conference next week, International Speaker, Bestselling Author, and Spoken Word Artist Hosanna Wong dropped by the podcast to chop it up with SJR. Known for speaking the language of the streets, Hosanna is proof that God uses EVERYTHING for His glory! She breaks down how we can radically transform, heal, and lead others into a deeper relationship with Christ without faking it. If you’re new to the Christian faith or feeling stuck in a routine, this episode will challenge you to veer into your God-given personality ‘cause Sis, He wants the REAL you!See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Am I dropping balls or am I not living up to an idea that was never attainable in the first place? I recognize that my expectation for myself was unrealistic. I realized I wasn't dropping the balls. I was being human Your relationship with Jesus does not have to look like anyone else's relationship with Jesus He wants to have a real relationship with you today and your real schedule and your real life and your real personality. What's up family? I am back again this week. First of all, the feedback on the podcast with Pastor Show Brady was absolutely, it was everything I knew it was going to be because I tried to tell y'all before we even started that she was coming for next. My neck in particular, but I think also some of your necks as well. I want to read you some of the comments that I saw on Instagram beyond me saying that she

ate us up. There were many of you that were like, this is the one right here. The Lawrence Spearman said every word out of her mouth is anointed effortlessly. I love hearing her visually painted picture of a word from God, which she did. If you guys didn't listen to last week's episode, you got to go back. It was powerful in so many ways. Sean Williams says, I cannot wait to see Pastor Sherbert at woman evolve. And there were many of you all who just resonated with the reality, the cost, the expense of what it means to be called. And we put a clip on

our social media that was so good and resonated with many of you. She does have a way of bringing things down that just makes them digestible. And it makes it, I won't even say easy, but necessary for us to lay hold of. Sometimes something can be easy to understand, but we still resist it. But there's something to be said about someone making a revelation necessary for us to lay hold of. Sometimes something can be easy to understand, but we still resist it. But there's something to be said about someone making a revelation necessary for us to apply to our lives. And I believe that that's what she did. And so if you haven't listened, I want you to go back.

We talked about surrender and it moved me and I hope it moved you. How are you? What's going on in your world? Okay, let's get into it. So I told you all that I've been doing this challenge with my friends. We work out five days a week for an hour. We drink two liters of water. We are supposed to be reading a book.

It's not, I read the Bible. I read my textbooks. It's not giving other books. But anyways, I've been working out. Oh, and we have two cheat meals. Let me tell you, I have lost weight. I have lost weight. And I am afraid to stop the challenge. The challenge is supposed to end on Friday.

That will make, I think it's six weeks total. I'm afraid to stop the challenge. And I know many of you all are like, oh yeah, it's a lifestyle. Just keep going. Well, the thing is that conference is the week after that. I am afraid that after conference that I am going to be so relieved from conference going just doing what conference is going to do. I have a feeling I'm going to be so relieved that I want to sit down and eat fries. The problem with me sitting down and eating fries is that it very much so gives 200 pounds.

That is not hyperbole. That is very much so 200 pounds. And you know, Shannon Sharpe says she ain't a lady if she ain't 180. And you know, it ain't nothing wrong with being 200 of them things. It's just that when I'm 200 of them things, my knees ache. Okay, when I'm 200 of them things, I can't breathe real good. When I'm 200 of them things, I'm not working out, I'm not eating right, and I want to live a long time.

And it's not a lifestyle for me. I know y'all want me to believe that the lifestyle is not a lifestyle. It was a challenge. And until the challenge becomes a lifestyle, I'm going to still need to be challenged. And so I'm trying to convince my group to let's take a week off during conference,

and then let's get a week off during conference and then let's get back in the saddle on like September 30th. No days off just back into it. So y'all follow me as I follow Christ in this group and just let me know what y'all think about what we should do. I'm still going to do the challenge because I can't afford not to because I know I know me that I have no in between. I'm full force beating my chest or in a sweatsuit hiding in a corner.

I don't know balance. I've never met the girl. That's what's going on with me physically, emotionally. I'm happy. I'm really happy. PT's birthday was last weekend. I don't know if it was PT's birthday. I don't know, but the marriage is in a good spot.

Maybe it's because we're coming up on 10 years and we finally have just kind of settled into one another and communication and being honest. And not that we weren't honest before, but you know, you like, you just settle into a person. And so maybe that's what it's, so that's good. I feel good about the parenting. Yeah, I'm excited about conference.

I know y'all don't care fully, fully, fully, but here we are. I'm letting you mind my business because I'm about to mind somebody else's business. I don't know what I'm preaching this time last year. I had an idea of what I was preaching. I don't know what I'm preaching, but I know that God's going to be there.

These last few weeks of me preaching in the Potter's House Dallas, oh, can I tell y'all, so I preached in Dallas yesterday. I preached a message called Made For This. I don't even be like, I don't even be on my own gas pedal like this, but I'm trying to tell y'all

it was simply the most beautiful time in the presence of God. I think part of the reason why is because when I was preparing for the message, I usually have a certain amount of notes. If you've ever listened to one of my messages, most of the time I'm like, oh my gosh, I think I studied too much because I have more content, more revelation than and I have time to fully unpack it. I didn't feel like that when I finished studying this message. I was like, this may be the shortest message

I've ever preached. I combed through it again. I'm like, God, is there anything I need to add to it? Like, am I slacking? Am I slipping? Have I lost? Like, what is it? And I just felt the peace of God.

I'm like, no, this is just what God gave me. If it takes 10 minutes, it takes 15 minutes. I'm going to just say it and that's going to be it. But the message was about really surrendering. But I didn't use that word because I know y'all tired of hearing me talk about surrender. But it was really about stepping into what you are created for.

And anyone who knows my journey knows that like, I didn't see myself as a preacher or speaker, and now it is primarily the touch point that many people know me. And I think I shrunk from that because of my own shame and guilt and just like, I'm just not, you know what I mean? Like I'm a teen mom, I'm just a regular girl, I'm still figuring things out.

I'm just like, I let someone else do it who just like has the thing. And so I've been embracing, oh, and that was, oh God, I just feel God just ministering to me even right now, the Holy Spirit with me. But like I told God this year, I'm going to surrender to your will and your way and your identity and your identity

and who you say I am. And so that's what the message was about. And on Sunday, I knew that part of me not having the comfort blanket of these pages and pages and notes was God really just being like, trust me. Trust me with who you are. Trust me with what I say about you. Trust that I'm going to give you what to speak in the moment that you need it.

And I feel like the message was powerful, but what I feel more than anything is that like, God was with me. And it'll just never get old. And the moment I don't feel that anymore, I'm going back into my corner, but as long as God keeps, so anyways, I'm good. I'm in a good place.

I'm tired. I'm balancing a lot. Conference, schoolwork, kids, after school activities, bills, money management team, but I feel good. I feel like maybe I'm made for this. And maybe you are too. I want you to listen to that message.

I think it'll bless you. All right, you've heard me blabber. I think it'll bless you. All right. You've heard me blabber. You know what's going on in my world. I am now going to mind someone's business. If you want me to mind your business, can you please send me your questions to podcast at womanevolve.com? I want to share what's going on in your world.

You can tell me, sis, don't say my name. You can say, girl, blast my name so it could be part of these people getting their lives together. However you want me to do it, girl, I got you. Or fellas, because I know the fellas be tuning in. So whatever, just send your question. I got you. And I am reading a question from someone who don't want you to know their name.

They just want you to know their business. Taking a deep breath sound, catch my breath. I have been working at like I've been running. My cardio is good. I cannot breathe when I talk. I need to stop talking so fast and breathe. Someone be my coach. Here we go. You ready? By the time I go to bed tonight, I will have caught up on the podcast. I am truly excited about that. It has given me a, I completed that moment and I truly need one right now because in this season, I am feeling very half finished about many things. I am currently listening to last week's episode with Priscilla Shire, just like you. She is one of the pastors I listened to and that encouraged my spiritual growth. I want to thank you and her for this episode. I am currently in a season of transition.

I am a married mother of three and a bonus. I am working full-time and working on my master's degree and I feel as though I am dropping the ball. My bonus kiddo is my daughter's best friend. We took her under our wing last summer and then into our family and home last fall. She recently graduated from high school, got her first job, a part-time job, and will be transitioning to our local community college in the fall. She recently got her driver's permit and my husband is teaching her to drive and will soon get her driver's license, and we will be adding her to the insurance. Our oldest daughter is going to be a senior this year and is a triple varsity athlete. Flag football, basketball and track. My

oldest son will be a sophomore and is playing football and my youngest son will be a fifth grader. They are all doing different things that pull me and my husband in many different directions. Life is life right now and I was feeling very bad because although I trust the Lord and I know the Lord will provide and has provided, I am at the point in this transition and this season where I am saying, okay Lord enough is enough. I am tired of struggling. I am tired of trying to make ends meet that don't want to meet. I need a reprieve. I need to be able to take a breath.

The episode with Priscilla made me feel so much better because I thought I was doubting God when I think that way or when I pray that way. I am trying really hard to accept that there is tension and frustration and faith operating all at the same time. But it is very hard. So I am asking, can you please pray for me? Because I feel as though I am dropping the ball with my kids, spending time with my husband,

school and prayer, just not seeing things come together. Child, you need somebody else to answer this question because baby girl, I can relate. I can relate. I can relate. And I know for sure that, okay, let me say this, I can relate. But let me tell you where my breakthrough came in. I came to a place where I was like, am I dropping balls? Or am I not living up to an idea that was never attainable in the first place? Am I dropping balls or am I not a robot? Am I not superhuman?

Am I not a person who can be all things to all people and show up in all of the ways? Because when I recognized that my expectation for myself was unrealistic, I realized I wasn't dropping the balls. I was being human. Girl, you got a lot on your plate. You are going to work, you have four children, you're going to pursue your master's degree, you work full-time, you're married. Like, how could you not? And then, and then these kids, they got activities. Like, you're holding your balls, their balls, his balls, all the balls, mama. Of course you're dropping some, because you're human.

And I think that a reprieve, the first reprieve is going to come and you having compassion for yourself. Helping yourself to see that it's not abnormal for someone with this many responsibilities to feel overwhelmed, to feel stressed and stretched. You're not, I mean Jesus had a lot of responsibilities and even he was like, get someone else to do it, don't do that. Flipping tables, telling people you perverse, faithless generation, y'all getting on my nerves, how long must I suffer with you?

Like Jesus was out here doing all the things and he felt the way as well. So I just want you to know it is not uncommon for you to feel the things that you are feeling. Give yourself a break first. Maybe you can't give yourself a break in time, Maybe you're not getting a break in your finances, but if you can give yourself a break in your energy, in your output, in your expectations, that's the first thing I want for you. Secondly, I will say this. You may need to consider what all you really have

the capacity to do. If you're like me, you cringed at that because I can do everything. I'm doing everything right now I'm just a little stressed, but I don't want to let people down I'm not saying that you have to let people down or that you have to exchange any of your responsibilities As much as you may have to adjust expectations. So my daughter My daughter Mackenzie as she enjoys volleyball

McKin- Ella is in drama. She is in cheerleading. She's in taekwondo. Mackenzie also is going to do debutantes this year and she's in school. So the thing about volleyball tournaments for me is this like, first of all, she practices twice a week. The first practice is from six to eight. The second practice is from eight to ten p. 8 to 10pm to be picking somebody up at 10pm who doesn't pay bills and doesn't add any income to the house is a sacrifice for us. Okay. And then the tournaments are two days long, most of the time they're on the weekends, we already don't get a full weekend because I'm usually preaching, or

my husband's usually preaching, which means Sundays we get half a day. And then on Saturdays we're preparing to preach. So we, our weekends, you know, we don't really get time off. And so adding tournaments on top of it means like I have left church preaching to go to a tournament. You're not asking, you didn't ask for me to mind. You didn't ask me to mind my business. You asked me to mind yours, but here we are.

What I am saying is this, I had a conversation with McKenzie when she signed up for volleyball and I said, here we are. What I am saying is this, I had a conversation with Mackenzie when she signed up for volleyball and I said, here's the thing. I'm going to ask your older siblings who can drive if they can take you to practice. I will throw a little change their way for the gas tank and for the sacrifice. I want you to understand it is my heart's desire to be at every single thing that you do. I want to be at every performance, every play, every tournament.

I do. I want to be there. I also want to rest. I want to be there. I also want to rest. I want to be studied. I want to be prepared. I am saying that there are going to be some tournaments that I can come to half of them. There's going to be some tournaments where I ask for your aunt to take you

and I may not be able to come at all. There are going to be some tournaments. I'm riding till the wheels fall off, baby. I'm going to be there and ain't nobody pushing me out the building until we get that W. Like, it's going to be a balance of all of the things. And so I want to challenge you to take this perspective to the Lord in prayer and see if it's something that could possibly work for you.

I've had times where Kenzie couldn't come to a tournament, couldn't come to hear me preach because she had a tournament. I tell my children that part of us being able to do the things that we are gifted at doing, that we feel called to do, is that we have to support one another from afar. I don't get to be all of who I am. You get to be all of who you are and there's to be there all of the time for one another. But one thing you got to know is whether I'm in the building or not, I'm riding with you till the wheels fall off and I know the same about you. That's our balance.

That's our reprieve. That's our break. Sometimes they're like, baby, I'm tired. I can't come. I want you to figure out what your needs are. Not long term. Like what do you need today? What do you need this weekend?

What do you have the capacity to do so that you don't turn this stress into resentment, into bitterness, into being numb, into seeking an escape, seeking unhealthy ways of coping? Because that's how this happens is that we keep stretching ourselves, stretching ourselves until we break. Stretching is great for the body, but we don't stay in this stretch posture. Stretching is for a season. You're stretched and your children are going to be, they better be, these kids better be thankful.

I believe that they're going to be thankful when it's all said and done, but I also want you to honor yourself in the right now. I hope that helps. Take it to the Lord in prayer. If you're listening and you're like, girl, I got some feedback, some help. I want you to send us an email,

podcast at womanevolve.com. Let us know how you're balancing all of the things and maybe we can help one another grow and become better. Evolve. So one of the things that I learned kind of early on in my ministry journey when I was invited different places is that I'm an introvert. I didn't need anyone to teach me this, but the more that you're in green rooms, you're

around people, you're behind the scenes, you just realize how awkward you are. And that happened to me pretty early on and so I pretty much keep to myself. I have a few friends who are also in ministry but for the most part, like my deep friends are like the people who I do life with every single day or people who I've known since I was growing up. I don't make a lot of new friends.

But I will say this, I am drawn to certain people. I'm drawn to their work, their heart, the way they show up in the world. I find them intriguing and being the true introvert that I am, I never say anything to them about it. And this conversation with Hosanna Wong is just like that. I've seen her, we've been in the same rooms and spaces together, but I can't say that

I really know her that well or that I've had any deep, meaningful conversations with her. What I do know for sure is she's got a grace and an anointing on her life that I felt like women needed to be exposed to. I get chills thinking about her coming to woman evolve and releasing the word that God has given her into the atmosphere and how it is quite literally going to change the names of the women who come into the room. But I wanted to get to know her a little bit more and I am sharing that journey with you on this podcast. We talked about so many things

throughout our conversation that I believe are going to be super helpful to where you are in this season of your life. I was intrigued to learn about her journey into faith. She is in a lot of more traditional faith spaces right now, but her original journey was one that was a little bit more nuanced than I knew. We talked about having authenticity in our relationship with Jesus, how each of us have different expressions, and those expressions are necessary for the people who we are called to serve. And we talked about just the trap of people pleasing, having faith,

and really knowing God for yourself. If you're listening to this podcast, I am assuming that you are on some faith journey, even if you're just curious, kicking the tires, you don't really know what to think. What I will say is this, there comes a time where you become curious for yourself about what faith looks like for you. I want you to know that our job, our goal,

is not to get you to imitate our relationship with God, but to lead you to Jesus in such a way that you get to know Jesus for yourself and that you feel known by Jesus. I like that. To feel known by Jesus. To feel that you have a savior who gets you and not just this beautiful, glorious religious figure

that people talk about, but that quite literally I am known by Jesus. And not just the good parts. He knows these innermost parts. The parts that are under development, the parts that are insecure, the parts that are raggedy, the parts that love a good, the parts that are insecure, the parts that are raggedy, the parts that love a good sin every now and then.

I mean, love a good sin. He know me and yet he calls me out of the least part of myself and into the highest version of who I am. And he still wants to be my friend. And I'm praying that you draw a little closer to Jesus after this podcast, this conversation with Hosanna Wong. She's an author, she's a speaker, she's a spoken word artist,

she is a woman after the heart of God that is going to make you feel more loved, more seen, more known, and perhaps even a little bit more surrendered to where you are in this season of your life. Let's jump into it. Okay. So this is going to be exciting for me because I like feel like I know you, but also I feel

like I don't know you at all. So why do I feel like I know you? Is that the internet making us cousins? What's happening here? We met like years ago in another lifetime, you know, like before our ministries really grew to the level. I don't even know where that was. Actually, was it at a church in Florida? I think you were, you performed at a church in Florida.

I think that's where I met you. I just, yeah. I think it was a women's conference in Florida. Yeah, as you said that, I was like, that's it. I got to meet you and you're a pastor and you were so welcoming and you and your husband were so welcoming and gracious and yeah. But I feel like I know you too.

Okay, so our theme this year is surrender. And for the month of August, September, we're talking about surrender to knowing your calling. And I just want to know more about your journey and your life and like, when was the moment that you felt like, I have found my calling? Yeah, well, I grew up on the streets of San Francisco. My dad battled addiction for 15 years, fought in a Chinese gang, had bullet holes alongside his calves from running from the police from the last time he robbed someplace. And a woman led him to Jesus and Jesus changed his whole life. And he ended up starting an outreach to our friends living without homes and battling

with addiction on the streets of San Francisco. And we had outdoor church services with all of our friends on the streets every week of my childhood, two to three days a week. People brought their alcohol bottles, people brought their drugs, and that's how I learned church. I learned later in life when other people said they were also raised in church, we weren't talking about.

Not the same thing. The exact same thing. But that's where I learned that Jesus could save anyone's soul and redeem anyone's story and would use anyone who would say yes. And it's also where I learned the art of spoken word poetry. All my friends on the streets did it. So it wasn't different. It wasn't unique. It was like the natural language of the streets of where I was from. So actually I would say that the first time

that I started even using spoken word poetry to share the gospel of Jesus, I don't even think it was a lightning bolt moment. I think it was just the environment I was in, that was the language everyone spoke. So if I wanted to share about Jesus in a language they understood, this was the way to do it. I don't know that it was like a spiritual moment. I think to me it seemed practical at the time. So I started sharing about Jesus just to my friends on the streets.

And now I see how God, I mean, I'm blessed that God has allowed me to share the gospel with just more friends. But I think once I saw that speaking in a language people understood was the catalyst to real life change in people's real lives, I think there was something in those moments. There was something in a life of learning how to speak the language of the people around me that I thought, this is it. This is what I want to do my whole life is just know the language of the people around me and be able to speak in a language they understand.

Man, I feel like that's where we have the greatest opportunity as leaders, as members of the kingdom is I think so often churches become like about behavior modification. And so we're like trying to figure out how do we become not like not even become like about behavior modification. And so we're like trying to figure out how do we become, not even become like Jesus, but like behave like Jesus with that actual spiritual transformation. And I think that when you undergo a process of spiritual transformation and it makes you so excited for other people to experience that transformation, then you're like, what bait do they need in order for me to lure them into this lifestyle that's going to radically change their lives, heal their hearts and just help them to be empowered to live this

life like Jesus. But I feel like we miss the mark sometimes because we don't know how to keep our truth, maintain our anchor while also reaching across and making sure that we're using language that is a door and not a barrier. Yes, I completely agree. And I think so often we come to know Jesus and we start our journey of faith and sometimes we think that it means that it's going to change all these external things about ourselves. So now that I've given my life to Jesus, now I have to act a certain way or put on a certain show or perform a certain way. And we think of it as all these exterior changes. But if we do that, that's how we form people who are fake.

That's how we make fake disciples of Jesus. That's how we have people that are putting on a show. It's an internal transformation that happens on the inside of you first. That's how you know it's real. And then it overflows to the external of your life. But what might shock people is that when it overflows to the external of your life. But what might shock people is that when it overflows to the external of your life, God wants to use the things in your real life. God wants to use your real personality.

God wants to use your real style. God wants to use your real background, where you're from, what you've overcome. It's almost as if God created you to experience Him and to share His love with the people around you. So I think it would surprise people that God is actually calling you to veer into the skid of your personality, to veer into your story, not somebody else's story, to veer into your personality, not someone else's personality, to veer into the things that are catalysts of real connection in your real relationships and to use that as the pathway to share about Jesus.

So for my friends, it was through art and it was through spoken word poetry and it was through things that I actually loved. What would it look like to engage in the things we already love to share about the one that we love with the other people that we love. Does that make sense? Like, don't you ever find that sometimes people have a misconstrued idea of, if I come to know Jesus, then I have to change everything about my personality and what makes me me sometimes?

For sure. And I think that that's why a lot of people don't do it is because, and I can't even say it's like that they love themselves so much, but it's like, you know, this is the only skin that I know how to be in. And to walk with Jesus means that I have to change into something that I can't even touch because sometimes we've made Jesus so unrelatable and so untouchable, that it's like, how do I go from that to there? Not realizing that the true power of relationship is that Jesus first met you right where you were. Like, I'm going to change you, I'm going to transform you, but first I'm just going to

meet you right here and let you know that you as you are, I love and I also see so much opportunity for you to take on my attributes so that you can experience the fullness of who you are created to be and not settle just on who you are. If we're in relationship with Jesus and we're settling on just being who we are, then we've missed the mark. Our relationship with Jesus has so much depth, so much potential for layers that if we are the same, then something went wrong. There is no way you can be in relationship with the real Jesus,

with the real I am that I am and end up in a space where you're staying the same. It just, I don't know, there are some moments where I'm just like, literally I used to read the Bible and fall asleep, like I am nobody's holy roller. I'm going to keep 100 with you. You know, I think the more that I have understood what it means to be like spirit field, what it means to really be a follower of Jesus and not just someone who's good at going to church. The more I long to have this spirit of long suffering, to have this confidence and boldness,

to create these boundaries, to not be swayed by other people's opinions. And I see all of that in scripture. So when I'm going through something now, I'm like, has Jesus ever gone through this? And I go and read how Jesus handles certain situations. And it gives me the confidence to show up as I am where God has placed me. Yes, I love that you mentioned reading scripture, engaging in scripture as one of the disciplines that were like, oh, man, I used to fall asleep. Or sometimes you've read it so much that it stops giving you life. And I think a lot of women listening might relate if you just started

following Jesus, but you're not sure where to read or where to start, or you've known Jesus for a long time and you've read the Bible so much, but it started to feel stale or routine. I've started trying to even say engaging in God's Word more than reading God's Word, because I think some of us might have grown up in Christian communities that put such an emphasis on reading God's Word as if we have to read more, harder, faster, memorize more, as if we're going to get some kind of spiritual trophy. And some of us have read the Bible a lot, but we don't know what God says about us. And the point was never to read it more, harder, faster. The point was to actually

know your Creator, to know what God says about you, for you to know who you are and know how to live. So, for some people who have been reading the Bible for a long time, but feel like they're not getting any life out of it or anything fresh out of it, the answer might not be, we'll read it more, longer, faster, wake up earlier. It might be, read it slower. It might be, get a new translation to read for earlier. It might be read it slower. It might be get a new translation to read for fun. It might be read that one chapter twice and pray. If you, like we're talking about veering into your personality, if you are someone who's very social and comes to life in social settings, maybe read it with someone. Do a chapter a day and do a text with

someone or call someone. The point isn't just to read the Word of God, it's to actually engage with God as you really are in your real personality. And something I wish I would have known so much earlier, your relationship with Jesus does not have to look like anyone else's relationship with Jesus. And it doesn't have to look like it did 10 years ago. He wants to have a real relationship with you today in your real schedule, in your real life, in your real personality. So how can we let go of the expectations we've put on ourself or that we've received from culture? How can we stop comparing our faith or our rhythms

to other people's rhythms? And how can we come to God as who we really are and say, God, I want to encounter you for real. Am I real everyday life right now. There's nothing more shocking to me than, man, when I look at my faith journey, sometimes I envy people who just had an encounter with God outside of growing up in church. Because I feel like in many ways that I like took the proximity of faith for granted. So even though I wasn't engaging in faith

and I didn't have my own relationship with God, I was kind of around it. So I'd say the salvation prayer at the end of a sermon and just kind of move on about my day. But I have noticed that people who like come off of the streets or they've never, you know, they didn't grow up in a household of faith, have such a fire and a passion. And so my relationship with God was really more like a slow cooker.

It wasn't even like an overnight air fried relationship. The cooking analysis, I'm hungry at lunchtime, but it wasn't this overnight transformation. It was this slow cooking. And when I find it, when it finally started clicking, when it finally became my own impersonal and intimate it feels so Vulnerable to be known as a faith leader now Because my faith journey was so intimate so slow so personal that

To put that relationship on display is very vulnerable for me and further context is that I didn't feel like my faith was Valuable in the context of like a church setting because it just felt different And so I really have a heart and a passion for people Who are learning to engage on their own in their own unique way? and I think that that's what probably gives me the confidence to show up in the rooms that I show in is because it's not cookie cutter. And until we give ourselves permission

to really allow our relationship to take on its own characteristics, its own rhythm, its own pace, I think we're always gonna feel a sense of isolation as it relates to the great opportunity we have to engage with God's Word, which I love that I'm stealing it. It's mine. Yes, perfect.

I love co-writing with you. What a dream this has been. Yeah, I felt that. When I was 18 years old, my dad, my hero got cancer and passed away. And I remember, because I loved my dad and I loved our church outdoors to our friends living without homes, my faith was real. But I think it was as real as I understood faith to be. I think a lot of it was attached to my dad and how Jesus had saved him.

I think it was attached to the ministry that I was doing with him. It was real. It was as real as I knew it was attached to the ministry that I was doing with Him. It was real. It was as real as I knew it to be. But I think once there was some shaking in my life and some loss in my life, and I had to deal with what did I really believe about Jesus on my own, I think there developed a different, a deeper well. Do you know what I mean? Like a deeper place.

And I think like you're saying, so many of our friends have always had to go to that deeper place first. There wasn't an example to them. There wasn't even an environment around them. So for them, it's always been real. And I appreciate that about them. I feel like when I'm with my friends who are new to God, but it was authentic and divine for them, it challenges me.

It convicts me a lot when you know all the language of the church. Man, sometimes you can really miss the heart, the heart of Christ and building his church. So yeah, that's powerful. Man, I feel like that happened even in ministry. So I want to shift gears a little bit. Obviously, while I'm involved around the corner. And I'm having this. Yes, I'm so excited. I'm so excited. You have no idea. I'm so excited to experience God's presence in this room with these people who are going to be there. I feel like the best part of Wal-Mini Bob is not even who's speaking. I feel like it is the atmosphere of God's presence, the vulnerability, the beauty, the sisterhood, like all dwelling

in this harmony. And like every year, I'm just like, God, just if you can at least do what you did last year, if you just do that, we'll be fine. But I wanted to ask you, as a woman in ministry, we're talking about the theme surrender. What is the connection between surrender and us staying fresh and sensitive for the roles and callings that we must occupy? I want to make sure I say that properly. Sometimes I feel like if we don't surrender, that our sensitivity grows stale. And I think our superpower is our ability to be sensitive to God's yes, to God's no, to who I'm supposed to, who I'm not supposed to be. And yet when we surrender, it's like it builds a wall. And that wall keeps us from being able to

really flow the way that we're supposed to flow. So I just want to know, what's your take on that? Oh my goodness. What is my take on that? Well, the good news is I've done this perfectly my whole life. Great, great. Please, I'm an expert. You have to be the expert.

Okay, I've never really put it in those words. I've never really thought about that, the correlation between surrender and the importance of that for sensitivity about the people we serve. I'm thinking about one of the greatest leadership lessons I ever learned was from the underground slam poetry scene when I was growing up. And I think this is my honest answer of what this correlation means to me. I remember growing up, you know, in the underground slam poetry scene, there's competitions, there's poetry slams are competitive,

and in the mainstream part of that world, you might be in a theater or an event center and it's bougie and there's ticket sales and you go and you would perform a spoken word poem and then there'll be a table of judges judging you, giving you scores. And these are your heroes. These are published authors, published poets. These are maybe the poets who made you want to start doing poetry. So it's very intimidating and you perform in front of them and after you're done performing, they will hold up scorecards giving you your score. That's what it's like

in the mainstream underground, you know, the mainstream slam poetry world. But in the underground, it's very different. There's no arenas and there's no ticket sales and we're not in a theater. We're in a record store after hours or community college cafeteria after hours and we're crammed inside of a room breaking all the fire codes. We're sitting on the floor. We're sitting on tables, maybe 200 people slammed into a room and an MC will come to the front because there's no judges. There's no judges table and an MC will come to the front and say, who here has never been to a poetry slam before? And then all these people raise their hands that maybe they came to support their cousin

because their auntie made them go and support or they're there because they're on an English class assignment to go listen to poetry and write a paper. All these people who didn't want to be there, perhaps pretty cynical about being there or apathetic about being there, raise their hands and then the MC gives them all the scorecards. Whoa. Signifying that the underground would always be the voice of the people. And if we are communicators who aren't communicating to everyday people, then we're not communicating at all.

And I haven't done this perfectly, but at my best, I remember God, don't let me be a leader who's just trying to impress other leaders. Don't let me be a speaker that just trying to impress other speakers or a writer that's trying to impress other speakers or a writer that's trying to impress other writers. Help me convey hope to people who perhaps have never heard about hope before. And I think it's a powerful picture for us to remember that sometimes we can get distracted by the judges table of people we honor, of people we love, of people who we want to please for maybe even good reasons.

And so we might lead a certain way because we saw her leading that way or him leading that way, but we might forget the people in the room we were actually called to lead. And I think it is so important that we remember the power of personal relationships. You talked about surrender in order to be sensitive. I think that in order for us to share hope with people where they really are, we have to know the questions people are actually asking. God has real answers for people's real questions. But some of us were in the Word of God and we know God's answers, but we don't know the questions people are actually asking because perhaps we're not in real relationships with

real people. And so, I think that's something I've had to surrender. Not just the judge's table as if they're people who are against me or critiquing me, but even my heroes and people I honor. God, don't let me put on a show for even those that I honor. Help me to be present and a good listener to the people in the room who desperately need to hear about hope. That's so good. I know that's going to help so many people because a lot of times we get caught up in people pleasing even on accident. And some people say I'm not a

people pleaser, But if you're looking to please a person or a particular type of people, then we do get caught up in people pleasing. I feel like man, that's best ministering to me on so many levels. I want to pivot. I heard we have a very special friend in common Dr. Anita Phillips. And our producer told me that I need to ask you about your friendship with Dr. Anita. Oh my gosh. Are we fighting? Are we fighting over a bestie? My goodness. I surrender in the name of Jesus. I surrender. Oh, I love her. I adore her. How long have you known her? I have known Dr, it's 2024, probably since 2018.

Oh my goodness. Okay, I wonder what your friend thought that I should share about our friendship. But I will say that I adore her and she has pastored me through some hard times. I met her originally through you on the 2020 Zoom call we did with Christine Cade. Oh, yeah. Okay, yeah. The first time I met her was in 2020. A bunch of us women leaders decided when the Lord looks at us and sees what we're doing in 2020, may He find us on our knees. So, there was a Zoom call of a lot of us, women who love God's church on

Zoom calls every Thursday, praying together for 11 or so weeks. And I think you invited Dr. Anita, and I think many of us did not know her yet. Is that, am I remembering this right? Yeah, I think that's true. And then we connected after that through texting, FaceTiming, and then seeing each other at events and behind the scenes and then having dinner together and forming a friendship.

But I think that was the Lord, that was divine timing, that prayer meeting and her coming and ministering to us. And so I just adore her, I love her. She's my queen. Yeah, it's actually you who introduced her actually through the Zoom call. Well, like you asked all of those things about Dr. Need. What I love the most about what Dr. Need is doing that I think is so necessary, just like, as we talk about people really coming into a space of like true relationship with God and experiencing discipleship is like what she's doing in the mental health

sphere right now. Right. And our faith is just, it's literally unprecedented. Like, it is so unprecedented. And it is making our spiritual lives so much richer and deeper. I don't know if your experience was like mine, but everyone was afraid of therapy and meant that you were crazy and meant that something was wrong with you. You're betraying God by getting a therapist.

My relationship with the Lord has gotten so much deeper as a result of my ability to really sort through some of my traumas and to acknowledge and address what I'm feeling. I agree. Because she says it so graciously, like she leads people so graciously, I think so many people were anti it because maybe the people who were pro it, maybe we were very aggressive in how we, maybe we were, maybe we were very aggressive in how we were trying to advocate for it, but she came in as a pastor, a pastor of pastors, you know, and she came and helped us say it graciously and she's led so many people and similar to you, like,

set apart, anointed and appointed in mainstream spaces as well as Christian spaces. And so there's just like this power and I'm just so thankful for and she's truly pastored me through so many things. I'm through her books too, but personally one-on-ones. I'm thankful for her ministry and that we get to do women evolve together. Like I can't believe it. I'm so awestruck by that. What are you looking forward to at Womany Evolve?

Like I told you about mine, this will be your first Womany Evolve experience that I'm aware of. What are you looking forward to? I'm looking forward to, similar to what you said about the atmosphere in the room, because I will tell you, it is lonely out here. Sometimes for a lot of us listening, I think we're thinking, am I the only one that wants

God for real? Am I the only one that doesn't want to put on a show but just know God for real? And I will tell you from my side of the world, when I meet people who have been impacted by your ministry, wherever I am, Oh, Women Evolve or Pastor Sarah, there is this common factor in them that you kind of alluded to. They're women that just want God and they want real community and they don't want to have any facade. They want Jesus without any ounce of faking it. And when I meet them, I can see even without us knowing each other that you and I knowing

each other that well, I do know the impact of your ministry based on the real women I meet every day, not in churches, not in churches, in malls, basketball games that talk about this. And what I'm excited to do is be, yes, to hear the powerful preaching from so many of our good friends. Yes, for all of that. But to be in a room of people that just want God for real. To be in an arena of people that's maybe the closest to heaven I will experience on this side of earth. But to say, we're not alone. There is a generation of women that want God for real without faking it, and here they are. Here's my sisters, here's my people. And also my prayers, Pastor Sarah, let this be an example to the world of what's possible.

Hallelujah. Let people see it. Let more churches start things like this. Let this not just be one event, but the catalyst for ripples for people to see. Look at women coming together, worshiping God. So I'm excited just to attend. And I'm excited to be a part of it with you all for real. I think women that really want God should fly across the country and come and don't miss out on being a part of this. That would be my personal invitation to everybody listening. I'm behind it 100%.

I've recently told our team we were running a scholarship because people are having, it's a hard time right now in a lot of places and people are like, you know, I can't afford to do this and do that. And I'm like, well, let's just give tickets away to people who sign up and they're like, we can't just give tickets away. I'm like, we, people have to be in this room, like whatever it takes for them to be in the room. And if they're in a position to get there, by all means, please invest in what God's doing in the earth. Please, you don't be there.

But if you can't, I just want to make sure that I'm doing everything in my power to make sure that there aren't any barriers. You said something about our Zoom calls. Women who love the church. We were in 2020. We were getting together each week and we were praying. During the course of those calls, the George Floyd murder took place

and that took our conversation and our prayers to a more expanded, I think, perspective of one another's different journeys and what responsibility does the church have in responding? And I feel like my dad and I were always talking about like does the church affect culture, does culture affect the church and how should it be? And I think that we are moving into a world

where short form content is king, where authenticity is honored and as it should be, I'm not vilifying any of those things, but I'm wondering, from your vantage point, what is the greatest opportunity you think the church has in attracting and winning and converting the lost? And what may we have to surrender in order to make that happen? I'm loving these lighthearted, very easy questions, Pastor Sarah. We're just playing softball. I do actually have a thought that I don't know that I've even vocalized before, so I may not have the right words. I have the right words on a personal level, though,

my conviction, which is that we have the opportunity to represent Jesus well through the way that we talk to each other. It's the way that we can treat each other. It's the posture we can have in conversations. I wish I had like the best way to articulate this because I think it's currently something I'm praying on, the Holy Spirit's working on and how I'm praying on how to even express this to my church and the people that I disciple. But the Word of God says that they would know, the world would know that we're Christ followers by the way we treat people, by our love.

And I feel a sense of, maybe you can help me even, because we're co-writing together on this Zoom. Yes, yes we are. I feel this sense, I wish I had the words, this sense of like, how can Christ followers in a world that feels dark and confused and exhausting and angry and broken and divided, how can Christ followers bring joy back? How can Christ followers bring love back? How can Christ followers bring celebration back and compassion back and justice back and fun back and all these things that Jesus Christ himself spoke about and lived out. Jesus was known for the way he treated people, for his relationships, for how welcoming he was at tables, for how compassionate he was to those hurting.

And so I often, I think a lot about our opportunity right now, and I think it would be a stark difference between people who don't know Jesus and us if we thought about the way we were wrapping our words and the posture of our hearts to real people. When I read some of the comments online, though not even what people are saying, but the way Christ followers are saying things. I think what if someone has never walked into a church, never heard about the hope of Jesus, they don't know about the love of Jesus, but this one comment they read from another Christ

follower was the only example of Jesus they have. Are we representing Jesus accurately? Would they know what they would encounter if they had a real one-on-one relationship with Jesus? So I don't know that I have the words the way I hope to have the words, but I have the conviction in my own life, which is, am I doing this the Jesus way? Am I saying it the Jesus way?

So often we want to do the Jesus things, but we don't want to do it the Jesus way, because we have a right to the way we want to say it. We have a right to the anger we have about this. We have a right to the cynicism we have about this. I'm trying to learn how to surrender some of my right to say things the harsh way I want to say it in order to say it the Jesus way so that it could actually be heard, received, and represent Jesus well. I'm trying to surrender some of my own pride and ego and agenda and feelings to make sure that I am representing Jesus well so people can see him and experience him first. Oh, goodness.

Okay. I can't, I can't, I can't, I can't co-write that at all. It's too beautiful. I would love if you help me. It's making me, I don't know, I have to, that's going to take me on a journey in my Bible study because like all through scripture, I think a lot of times we get caught up in this idea of being set apart. And I think we allow our distinction to give us pride when I think the true beauty in us

being set apart is that we shouldn't have been. You know, the humility of it is that like, I shouldn't have been. I'm not any different than you are in the same situation in a different time, different parents. You take one variable of my life and maybe I wasn't set apart, but it was the goodness of God that has allowed me to be set apart. And I think to really view our set apartness from a place of humility may change the way we speak to those who we are trying to attract into our fold, you know? I do think about the way that we are caring for one another with our language and not just being the hands and feet of Jesus, but the mouthpiece.

So that's going to give me something to marinate on. I like you. We should be friends in real life. I like you too. I think Women of Olive is going to be, this might be fun and amazing. Yeah, just the beginning of an amazing situation. Yeah. And to circle back to what you said at the beginning, I'm praying, Lord, in this year,

in 2024, in the world we are in, how do you want to use me uniquely, like we mentioned, with my lens, with where I'm from, with what I've overcome, with my personality, with my friends. Lord, how would you have us help the world? Not look at the judges table, but look at the people in the room and say, how can I actually show you Jesus? Can I say one last thing that just came to mind just in case I can encourage somebody? I was just thinking about how in the New Testament, we read about another religious group of people who also had a lot of opinions, the Pharisees, and how I've started to have a little bit of compassion for them just because I used to think they were the

bad guys. The devils, right? Yeah. And then I started to think like, man, they followed God for a long time. They were actually the best at some of the spiritual disciplines, which is why they were perhaps so rigid about them, but they were better at Sabbath than Jesus, right? They were better at their time in prayer than Jesus. Like they were so obsessed with the way it was supposed to look to follow God. And they missed out on having a personal relationship with God himself when Jesus was in the room. But I think about the Pharisees and how they were more obsessed with people believing what

they believed than actually knowing God, how they were more obsessed about what it looked like to obey God than to actually obey God, how people saw they looked when they prayed instead of actually praying. And I have some compassion for them because they might not have known any different. But we do know different. We see Jesus Christ himself in the Gospels and in our own lives. And my prayer is that we would not become modern day Pharisees who are obsessed about what we think it should look like or pressuring people to believe what we believe if we're not pointing them to Jesus.

We're missing it. Jesus himself. So that's kind of my prayer. I surrender my need to be a religious elite. I surrender my need to say the most impressive spiritual thing. I don't want to miss Jesus and I don't want to miss the people that Jesus has called me to. That's just something that came to mind in this moment. Holy Spirit, use it if it's good. If it's not, rebuke it. If it's not, delete that. It's good. It's so good because I will tell you that it's very challenging to not even to the world, but to the language of the elite, you know? And yet,

everything that God's done in my life, He's done it through my authenticity and through my ignorance, you know, and through my desire to know more and learn more through my posture of humility. And they do that. The elite make the elite look very, very good and they make you feel very wrong. But I think to stay in the sweet spot of discipleship, which means I have to be hungry to learn. I got to lean in. I have to be willing to be wrong. I have to be willing to ask, why couldn't I pass that out and to learn what it takes to do it the next time. It means

that I may never get to be an elite, but I always get to be a follower. And that's maybe that's all that really matters. Yeah. Just like we prayed in 2020. That's still my prayer, God, when you see the woman of God today, may you find us on our knees Yeah, we're surrendered We say yes Whatever you want us to do Okay, that's it. That's it and the end. Praise God. I love you. I honor you. I'm excited to see you soon I'm so grateful. Thank you so much for adding your love, your anointing, your heart for Jesus to the room. I am experiencing the weight and the consecration of what that room is

supposed to be and my responsibility to get dead enough to make it happen. So I'm grateful that you'll be in the room with us. Me too. Can't wait. Hope to see everyone who's listening there with us. See you soon. Yes! Bye. Bye. Did we just make a friend or did we just make a friend?

Like, that's our friend now, right? Hosanna, stop playing with us. Take us to brunch. Or we'll take you to brunch. We'll split the chat. Be our friend is the point. I hope you enjoyed this podcast as much as I did. I am blown away by the different paths that we take

in discovering who God is, but how real it is for each of us. I hope this is a reminder to you that no matter where you are on your journey, that is valid, it's legitimate, and it is not outside of the reach of what God can do and wants to do in your life. I hope that you go back and listen to the sermon made for this. I hope that it helps you and you better be coming to WomanyBalve.

What's up? We are a little over a week away. By the time you're listening to this, it'll probably be exactly a week, maybe a few days. Maybe y'all can listen after this and that's okay too. But I hope that if you catch it early that you're able to be in the room, size it up. I believe God's going to do something phenomenal and I can't wait to do it with you. I love you tremendously. Y'all pray for me.

Usually I pray for you at the end of this podcast. I'm asking that you pray for me. I want to be who God sees on September 26. I want to be who God sees when it's time for me to lead and steward this moment, this appointment in destiny. I want to be who God needs me to be for the women that he's calling into the space. So I'm asking that you pray for me and that I would just feel a deep sense of restoration and revelation and that I would lean in to the truth that I made for this,

that God knew who I was, God knew who I wasn't, and created this opportunity for me to step into it. May I do it with courage and boldness, with one focus only, and that is to see His kingdom come, and His will be done, in Jesus' name. I guess I pray for myself a little bit and for whoever else is stepping into a moment that you know without a shadow of a doubt

is bigger than you. But if God be for us, who can be against us? I love y'all, check in with you next week. Evolve. next week, evolve.