Woman Evolve with Sarah Jakes Roberts - Seasons of Transition w/ Priscilla Shirer

Episode Date: June 12, 2024

If anybody's got the inside scoop on how to maintain faith in seasons of transition, it's our good sis Priscilla Shirer! As an Evangelist, Bible Teacher, and Christian Media Personality with over 25 years in ministry, she knows without a shadow of a doubt that character development surrenders in the face of change. Through firsthand experience of enduring the grief and loss of her mom, Priscilla answers the sought after question: Can faith and frustration coexist? SJR grabbed the mic to let listeners know that Jesus didn't want this plot twist of a life for us either. But at the end of the day, W.E. gotta be about our Father's business. If you're ready to deny yourself, take up your cross, and follow Christ, then this is the episode for you. Be on the lookout for Priscilla's upcoming film, "The Forge" hitting theaters this August!See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

What's up? I'm Vince Carter and my podcast, The VC Show is coming back. Season two of The VC Show is going to be bigger and better than ever. Every week during the NBA season, I'll give you my real insights and opinions on the league. Subscribe to the pod and listen to The VC Show with me, Vince Carter, on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Everyone in our country has a voice. It's something that says not just where you come from, but who you are. Welcome to NPR's Black Stories, Black Truths, a collection of podcasts and a celebration of the hosts in

journalism who've always spoken truth to power. Our voices are as varied, nuanced and dynamic as the Black experience and stories should never be about us without us. Find NPR Black Stories, Black Truths on the iHeartRadio app or wherever you get your podcasts. Gangsta Chronicles unpacks the evolution of this uniquely American art form, offering listeners a comprehensive understanding of the significance this genre holds. Listen to the Gangsta Chronicles on the Black Effect Podcast Network, iHeartRadio app, or wherever you get your podcasts. Can we talk about raising your parents? Because at the end of the day, you know, you have a perspective on what could make her life better that she is not ready to receive. Just be reminded that she may get what she needs, but not from the places where she's sold it. Taking up the cross looks like death. Something's got to die. If you love me enough to die for me, why would I think you don't love me enough to sustain me until I see you face to face?

What's up, what's up, what's up? It is Sarah Jakes Roberts. This is the Woman Evolved podcast and we are back. You will be pleased to know that I'm on my P's and Q's this week. The last few times I've literally recorded just in time, barely in time, hardly in time, not in time to make the team still like me. Today I am recording so much earlier than when this dude that I feel like my help is coming. Possibly I am becoming a more well-balanced responsible human being coming off the heels of Tor. So I am just going to attribute this to summer break being over me being or over Jesus no

hallelujah no. Summer break being in full swing and me having an opportunity to just exhale, take a deep breath and relax. Can I tell you something? I preach the last sermon that I will be preaching until July 28th on Sunday. For those of you who are just tuning in, that was Sunday, June 2nd.

Do you know what that means? My mind is on sabbat. My spirit is on refuel. And I am a grateful somebody. How are you? I'm in a good mood. My mother's on her way to my house. We are celebrating my father's birthday this weekend. Did you guys enjoy the podcast last week with my father? We've gotten so much feedback from people who are undergoing transition, having to trust God in the midst of transition, who are venturing into entrepreneurship and hoping to make the best out of the resources that are available to them. And so got a lot of positive feedback, but we're celebrating my dad's birthday this weekend. Something that I have learned,

I don't know if this is just like a church culture thing, a black culture thing, and everybody American culture thing, but I will say I feel like church folks don't know how to have just regular birthdays. It's gotta be a birthday conference. On Sunday we're doing something after church. On Friday we're doing something just close friends. And tonight we're doing something just family friends, and tonight we're doing something

just family. The birthday conference is beginning. I'm not even mad at it because tonight we're just going to the movies. Going to the movies is my favorite thing. Popcorn, peanut, M&M's, please. Thank you very much. My mom's on her way over here, and then we're going to go to the movies. Yes, the joy is bubbling.

I have slept seven to eight hours every night for the last three or four nights. I'm invincible. I'm on top of the world. How are you doing? I pray that this podcast is finding you somewhat in good spirits. If not, listen to the other podcast. You are not alone. I have been on the struggle bus. Let my joy be a reminder that though the night may be weary, joy comes in the morning. You know how it is. I want to get into minding your business. I am so excited about this week's podcast.

I got a chance to sit down with Priscilla Shire and I minded her business, your business, my business, women in ministries business, faith business, transition business, grief business. I tried to cover all of the things. I am so in awe of the gift that she is to the world. I'm excited that she will be at WOMEN Evolve 2024. I am so excited. I can't, am I allowed to tell you all stuff?

Like I, we're starting conference early. We're gonna start Thursday during the day. Usually we start Thursday during the evening, but we've gotten a lot of people who are like, can it be a little bit longer? Can we have longer breaks, but get more content? So we are gonna shoot our shot at a two and a half day experience.

She's gonna speak Thursday morning. I just feel like as the trailblazer that she is, you know, I'm gonna open with some words. I'm gonna welcome you onto the environment, but she has paved a way for so many women in ministry that I just feel in my heart that I want to honor that she's gone ahead of me by quite literally putting her before me when I speak at Womny Bop. So anyways, I'm looking forward to this week's episode.

You're going to love it. Before I minded her business though, I got to mind somebody else's business. So let's see. Okay. Hey Sarah girl, I need advice. Me and the three of my sisters, honestly, our mom is like the go-to person in the family for everyone. And we love that she's able to be the type of person that she is, of course.

But the problem is that she does so much for our family members for some of them to find themselves thinking they're going to talk crazy to her when they are in the wrong. My mom has raised almost all of my older cousins and their kids as well and still are. She invites family to live with us when things are going wrong and she should because they're family. She makes groceries for their home. She constantly shops for their kids. She's always the one ripping and running, tiring herself. The way that my sister and I look at it is that for someone's mom who is always there for others, there is very few people she can call on even if she asked for

something so simple is to the fact where my mom knows who and who not to call and for us as her daughters it affects us too because we see it happening repetitively and we witness how she lets other people stress her out and how unappreciative people offer her. I am am 21. My sisters are 28, 23 and the youngest is 14. Me and my sisters grew up with only us and my mom in the house. So we're used to it just being us all girls and it's like we have to share our mom with others and we kind of don't like to I hope that doesn't sound selfish. We try to talk to our mom and about

it because it affects us and especially my youngest sister but she doesn't get where we're coming from. And thanks for being careless of others. I explained to her one day that some things that she does, she has to let go of. My question is, how did you and your sister adjust to having to share your parents with the world? And how does your children adjust to having to share you and their dad with the world being in the position that you all are in?

This is an excellent question. First of all, I love the fact that many of us have felt like we are sharing our parents, whether it's with our family or because of the roles they play in community or in communities of faith in church. Like, uh, I have experienced, okay. So, so many thoughts came to my mind when you sent this. I will say, how did I deal with sharing my parents with the world? It was very, very hard.

I have been very vocal about, you know, wading through feelings of rejection, sometimes abandonment. And so I will not say that it was easy. There were moments where I felt like they were showing up for other people, but I could not even give language to the fact that I needed them for myself. So I will not make it small that that was difficult. I will say that for me and my children that I've tried to be very active and engaging with them, not just like checking on them, but like really getting to know them where I understand not just their verbal needs, but their nonverbal needs

and their nonverbal communication patterns. I try to be very present with them. I'm sure in some ways they feel like they're sharing me with the world, but our day-to-day lives, I try to be as present as possible. That is a choice that I made based off of an experience that I had. It's difficult for our parents to

understand where we're coming from if they've never had the experiences that we have had. I will say that as I was listening to your letter, I really sympathize with your desire to see your mother be protected as a result of all of the love that she gives out. I will also say that one of the things that I had to challenge myself with, even as it related to like coming to a place of peace about the way that my parents pour and show up for other people, is that at the end of the day, like, my parents are grown and this is their life and these are the choices that they're choosing to make.

And I don't want to make the arrogant assumption that I know better for them than they know for themselves. If she feels like she has the capacity to continue showing up for these people, regardless of the reciprocity that she does or does not receive, our role in loving them, not just expecting from them, is meeting them where they are.

She may not be at a space where she feels equipped and empowered enough to create the types of boundaries that you feel she is worthy of. And until she aligns with how you feel, then she's gonna continue to show up in the world the way that she does. So the question then becomes, what do I need to do? What do you need to do in order to embrace

your mother's decision-making right now? Who do you need to do in order to embrace your mother's decision making right now? Who do you need to become in order to make peace with the choices that she is making about her life? What expectations do you need to remove? Though it may not be what you want for her, this is a choice that she has decided to make. And she deserves the right to show up in her life the way that she desires to until she desires to change that. That's hard. It was much easier said than done. But one of the greatest spaces of disappointment in the parent-child relationship is expecting

something from our parents that they do not have the ability to give. The more mature, challenging work of accepting and embracing them for who they are, regardless of what they can or cannot give us, is our opportunity for growth. Our desire to not repeat some of those patterns are our choices and our work alone. But to look at your mother with compassion to look at her with empathy to understand that it's her choice to make and though you feel you know, but I mean, it's, can we talk about raising your parents? Because at the end of the day, you know, you have a perspective on what could make her life better that she is

not ready to receive. It's giving teenage years where our parents were trying to tell us something that we didn't want to hear. Like at the end of the day, the human experience is about learning things on your own, making choices and hopefully having relationships that can withstand the bumps and bruises that come with you learning these lessons. So I don't know how helpful that was. She doesn't get it right now. It may not be for her to get it. Maybe it's you.

Maybe it's on you to get her, but you know, this is what we got. And I would pray about it. I would continue to ask the Lord to reveal to your mother, her worth, her value, and to ask God to, oh, I feel this, okay, I have something to say. To also ask the Lord to help you serve her, like not just putting the onus on her

to take care of herself and to have reciprocity, but if you feel this passionately about her not getting what she needs from others, just be reminded that she may get what she needs, but not from the places where she's sown it. And what are ways that you can love on her and pour back into her as a result of how you see her showing up for other people?

That would be my two to three, four, five, six, seven cents. But I want to hear what the delegation says. Delegation, can you relate? Have you been in a similar instance? Have you been this person and you snapped out of it? Have you been this person and felt like no one gets it, but I understand it. Send us your feedback. Or if you want me to mind your business, send me

an email to podcast at walmnevove.com. I may not have the best advice, but I will give you my honest opinion and at least something that you can take to the Lord in prayer. So thank you for sharing this with me. And I hope that you are able to make some choices about the way that you love and honor your mom, the way that you love and honor yourself that allows her to be on her journey

and for you to protect your mental health and your peace. Evolve. What's up? I'm Vince Carter and my podcast, The VC Show is coming back. Season two of The VC Show is going to be bigger and better than ever. Every week during the NBA season, I'll give you my real insights and opinions on the league. Oh nice move by Carter! What? Yes indeed! I have a lot to talk about and it won't always be basketball. If you listen to the show you will get to know me, my life and the things I care about. My family,

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There were a lot of red flags and it did take me eight years to get there, but I got there. The challenge of self care. This is important, because now you're about to be a mom of two kids. And making friends as an adult. We're gonna share our struggles. Just white-knuckling through life, babe.

We're gonna speak to experts, and we're gonna share everything we learned with you. Listen to more better with Stephanie and Melissa as part of the Michael Duda Podcast Network, available on the iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Everyone in our country has a voice. It's something that says not just where you come from,

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on the iHeartRadio app or wherever you get your podcasts. I have been so, so blessed by the life, the ministry, the identity of Priscilla Shire. As a woman in ministry, there were very few people, I think, who were, well, I won't say very few people because I don't want to minimize the work of the incredible women who have gone ahead of me as it relates to ministry. But I think that when I first started speaking, and you all have heard, many of you have heard my story, I wasn't really preaching. I was just kind of like sharing my story.

And because I was just sharing my story, I spent a lot of time in predominantly white spaces. And as a result of that, I was generally exposed. I was the only black girl in the room. Okay, so I did the Women of Faith tour. A lot of people thought I was Priscilla Shire. And this was, gosh, 12 years ago. And I was familiar with who she was.

I grew up in Dallas. Her family has been an incredible staple in the community of DFW, but also globally. And so of course I knew who she was, but I wasn't when I started speaking, then I was often coming behind her in many ways because I was speaking places where she once spoke or she spoke somewhere years ago. And as in someone who was coming up, I was coming behind her.

And so I've had just been in the trail, the wind, the grace of her call and ministry, and she's been very gracious and extending herself to me as I have. Try there's they're cutting my lawn. I tried it. I try to be a professional and the lawn that's being cut. But I was reading an article that was actually published last year by CNN in 2023. In this article, they've talked about just the growth

and development of communities of faith as it relates to having women in positions of leadership and how it is changing the face of the church. Fuller Theological Seminary is one of the largest seminaries in the US and one with a noted history of championing female faith leaders. The question used to be, this is from the article, the question used to be whether women should even be pastors, but that's not as critical a question anymore in some denominations. Now the question is how can we make the environment in which women are pastors more fruitful, productive, and

supportive? She says having women in roles of power can help amend church structures that are inhospitable to underrepresented people and clear wider paths for acceptance and empowerment among communities. Power and privilege is not always a bad thing. Sometimes it can mean the opportunity to speak and share your perspective. When I started writing power moves, this was a part of what I was beginning to see happen in the world. I was seeing specifically in a community of faith that women were the main people who were in the pews, the main people who were prominent and making sure that communities of faith were sustainable, that they were hospitable for younger children, for people who were coming

for the first time, and yet they were often excluded from leadership. And yet I could not deny that there were so many incredible voices rising up in communities of faith and that there was more expansion happening as a result of that. And by expansion, I mean people feeling seen, people feeling valued. I think even what God has done in my life is a reflection of that. And yet there are still so many questions about being a woman in leadership in any space, but also going through transition and having to grow on the spot. So it's one thing when we think that leadership is a destination, it's another one we realize that leadership is actually a journey.

And when leadership is a journey and you realize that you're not finished growing, it can be very, very daunting talking from personal experience. I took the time to speak with Priscilla Shire about all of these things and more because she is quite simply that girl. And I wanted to know her thoughts on what God is showing me in scripture, about what she learned about hanging on to faith in the midst of transition. We dig into so much and I cannot wait to share with you. She is a wife and a mom first.

But put a Bible in her hand and a message in her heart and you'll see why thousands flock to her conferences and dive into her Bible study series and books each year. She's a graduate of Dallas Theological Seminary. Priscilla holds a master's degree in biblical studies and considers it a privilege to serve believers from every stream of the global church through going beyond ministries. Founded by Jerry and Priscilla nearly 25 years ago, the ministry equips believers through

books, Bible study resources, conferences, and through films like War Room, I Can Only Imagine, Overcomer, and her next movie that's coming out The Forge. You are going to be so obsessed with this conversation I have with the queen, the legend, the icon, Ms. Priscilla Shire. Our theme this month is surrender to believing in transition, maintaining faith in seasons of transition, which I feel like are the moments where our faith is tested the most. And you know, even coming back to Dallas for me, like I had to maintain some faith in the midst of transition.

You've been such a staple for women in ministry, an icon, a legend, for not just you, oh yes, oh yes, oh yes, you, you, yes ma'am. For not just me as a woman in ministry, but for literally women who are seeking to understand God, to understand their walk and their response and their inheritance as children of God. And I just, one, have so much gratitude for who you are. When I first started speaking, you made yourself available to me just as a mentor and a sounding

board. And I have taken advantage of that many times for big and small things. But I'm just wondering, as you see the landscape of the world, where we're becoming more vocal about our trauma and our triumphs, how have you been able to maintain belief in the midst of transition? Well, immediately when you when you talked about transition, the very first thing that came to my mind was that my mother used to always say that there's so much beauty in each season of a woman's life and that one of the worst things we can do is be so married to one season and

the way it looks and the expectations that we have regarding it, that we box ourselves into it and we're resistant when the winds of change are trying to blow in our lives and we resist that change. And that's what we tend to do because change can be uncomfortable and it can be unsteadying and cannot feel good to us. And so when we resist that, I remember her saying that we will not only, we won't box God in,

he's still God, he's still doing the most, but we'll box ourselves in so that we won't box God in, he's still God, he's still doing the most, but we'll box ourselves in so that we don't get to experience it, enjoy it, and live out the beauty of the transition that's taking us to something better, something more beautiful, something that's gonna have hardship, yes, but that hardship is designed to develop our character so that we're ready

for the next thing, that there's so much beauty if we'll just be willing to loosen our grip on where we are, let go, let the winds of change blow us into the next thing, that there's so much beauty if we'll just be willing to loosen our grip on where we are, let go, let the winds of change blow us into the next season so that we can enjoy everything that there is for us there. Can I say, so I was living in Los Angeles when your mother passed, and I think having grown up in Dallas and just having so much respect for your family, who you guys are

in the city and who you are globally, to watch you all walk through that transition. It was, I just felt so much love for you all. And I mean, we know one another, but I don't know your family very well, but it just felt so much love for you all. And I mean, we know one another, but I, you know, I don't know your family very well, but it just felt like, if we have to face something that's hard and this difficult, this is the way it should be done. And I think because my mother is the backbone of our family, but not the front face of our family.

Right. Right. Yeah. I just. Yes. The way that you honored her, the way that you all, I just, I don't know. I don't know why I felt so drawn to it. I watched the entire service online and I saw your members praying outside of your home. Like, and that's not what this podcast is supposed to be about, but just I want to acknowledge how much grace and strength and just compassion I felt for you all as you went through that

transition. But you're, you said her name and I just, every time I think about her, I think about that transition that you all went through. I just feel so much honor and love and gratitude that she was well taken care of and seen for who she was in the family, even in her past. Well, I appreciate that so much.

And we do, like you said, just being in Dallas together with our father's pastor and the way they have and leading the way they have, we do kind of just feel connected to your family as well in that way, like the Lord has planted us in the same community to serve the same people locally. But when you talk about transition, even in that, even mom passing away, like you said, people would show up at our house at noon every day, our childhood home, and march around

the house and just be asking God to heal her. And your father prayed during one of y'all services at the Potter's house, and someone sent us the recording of that. Brooklyn Tabernacle did the same thing. We had churches all over the world where the pastors were praying with their congregation and they were emailing it to us so we would know.

People were praying, and yet God did not answer the prayer the way we would have preferred. So when you talk about, I feel so grateful to you and encouraged by you saying that there was some sort of grace that the Lord gave us to honor him during that. But at the same time, I want to say whatever it looked like, there were so many tears, there were so many, Lord, why, like Lord, you know you would be glorified if you heal her, right? Right, right, right?

Right? So it's like, Lord, we're disappointed and we're discouraged and we know you're able, so why didn't you choose to do it this way? That the fact that the Lord allowed us in that transition, the grace to ask those questions, that he's not mad at us that we cried, that he's not mad at us that that transition, the grace to ask those questions, that he's not mad at us, that we cried, that he's not mad at us, that we hurt, that he's not mad at us, that we were disappointed.

But the fact that we can ask God questions during transitions without questioning God, that his character, we're still sure of his character. Even if we can't trace his hand all the time, we trust his heart. And so, man, that does, even though it's a little bit off topic, the specifics of that, it really is the topic. Because transitions are hard when the Lord is allowing us to take a detour that is not what we expected, and it's not what we desire, and it's not what we want. And in our finite minds, it's not even what we think would give him the most glory in

that situation. Are we willing to trust anyway and to say, Lord, my life is yours. Every aspect of it, even when I don't prefer it, I surrender to you and I surrender this transition to you. Nobody wants to do that. Right? No, no, no. It sounds so good, but we don't want to do it. Mm-mm. It's not easy at all. And we don't, we don't do it well all the time. We look back and you know, on different points in all of our lives, you look back and go,

shucks, I should have, I should have made a different decision or had a better attitude or whatever. But there, but his grace is sufficient. He knows we're human. He knows that we are frail and his grace is sufficient for that. He's not mad at us for being human during the transitions. I'm grateful for that. Do you think it's possible for us to maintain our belief

in transition while also not fully accepting the transition. Can I have faith and frustration? God, I still trust you. I just have not accepted this yet. Yes. I trust you. You're good. Yes. Like, I trust you, you're good.

But right now, me and you, we, like, maybe I'm not even struggling with you, but like, this is a struggle. Because life is life in and out of these streets. And I think, I really feel like part of life and maturity is coming to accept that there will always be that tension. There will always be that tension, that we will feel frustrated with the transitions that people not doing what we expect them to do.

They're not our children, our spouses. Life isn't adding up the way we thought it would. We thought we would make this kind of investment in our children or in a ministry or in a business, and it would yield this fruit, and we had that in our mind, and it's not yielding to the fact that those transitions are going to produce results that do not line up

with what we hope for or expected and that there will be frustration there and accepting that, I'm gonna feel frustration. But at the same time, I can believe he is who he said he is, that his promises are still yes and amen and that I can count on him to carry me through even when I'm frustrated, sad, disappointed, disappointed. So I think part of the,

the key to living well and enjoying the abundant life he has called us to is accepting the fact that there will always be attention of frustration and faith and that his grace is sufficient for that. Now I'm going to let you rebuke me as a, as a younger woman in the faith. I'm going to let you rebuke me as a younger woman in the faith. I'm going to let you rebuke me if I got this wrong. But I recently have just been like, you know what? In my study of scripture that I have just been like, you know what? The same things that I'm frustrated that I'm facing with, like I don't, God, God didn't

want me in this either. Like death and you know what I mean? Like he did not want us dealing with cancer and even death itself. Like this was, when he started this thing, this was not what he wanted for us either. This trauma, these divorces, this pain, this betrayal. It's not like he was sitting up like,

yeah, and they're gonna love this plot twist. We were the plot twist. The enemy was the plot twist. And I have found some comfort in being like, you know, Jesus, this is not the path that he wanted for me either. But the goodness of God is that I will not leave you even in this mess that you didn't want nor that I wanted. And I know a way out.

I know a way that you can still be restored. I know a way that you can still find a way to see the beauty in what's left. I found a way where you can still establish the kingdom of heaven through our partnership. Like I did not want this for you either, but I will not leave you in the mess that I didn't want for you. Girl, and what a great savior that he sympathizes with us that he, like you said, is compassionate because this was not his plan either. We weren't supposed to deal with all of these things. And yet here we are because of fallen humanity and the DNA of sin and our own personal choices, even side, just us.

And so here we are in all these struggles and all this hardship and knowing that we have a God, ooh girl, it just is too much for me that he is the God of the whole universe, holy and transcendent and he chooses to care. I feel like that is such a better story than this like God why, but if you can be like God is like, yeah, why? But also I got a how like I didn't want this for you either, but I can stay in this tension with you. I can love you.

I can order your steps. I can get in this tension with you. I can love you. I can order your steps. I can get you to the next thing. Like you are not in it on your own. Like you, like we agree that this is not how life should be, but this is how life is. And whereas most people will leave you, as most people will walk away and say things about you, like guys, I still love you.

I still see beauty in you. I still want to partner with you. My grace is still sufficient for you. So like, let's work this thing out together. To me, that is a better, that is what my faith is built on. That I am facing a world that was not God's plan. Sometimes it wasn't my plan,

sometimes it is my consequences. None of it is always ideal, but I am not in it on my own. I just feel like that's the key that I feel like a lot of us have been missing. And I think it's why we lose a lot of people in the faith is because in their mind they're thinking that like, God let this happen when we have free will and some of us have been hurt by other people's choices, sin is in the world. Like it is possible that we are living out a reality that was not God's perfect plan

and will for our lives, but God says, I can still get you there if you would allow me to partner with you. Absolutely. And even as you say that, I was thinking of the apostle Paul who said, there is a fellowship in his sufferings. And we don't talk enough about that,

particularly in the Western part of the world, the church, where everything is bigger, better, prosperity, ease, comfort, but really there is only a certain level of fellowship with Christ that comes because we're in hard things. So yeah, he allows them, because we live in a fallen world, and so there is a allowance of hard things in our life, but there is a fellowship we have with him,

a union, a friendship, an awareness of what it means to walk by the Spirit, to hear the voice of God. And we know how it is to be down in our knees in prayer during hard times, and to experience God more fully in prayer sometimes, or in the reading of his word, or in the body of Christ, more in those seasons than we do when things are steady and calm and peaceful

because there's a fellowship there. So if we're only wanting a life of ease and peace and comfort, which was never his promise. Yeah. If we only want that and we're always praying away the difficulty then we have to know that we are also simultaneously praying away the opportunities he's going to entrust to us to know him in the fellowship of that suffering. That's so good. I'm thinking as I've just been like, I don't even call it reframing, but I think just growing closer in my relationship with the Lord, like even when I look at Genesis one and I'm looking at the mandate that he gave to humanity to be fruitful, to multiply, to fill the earth, to have so to subdue and have dominion.

Like none of those things were easy things, you know? I mean, to have dominion over beasts, like we're talking lions, tigers and bears. We were going to have a life that required us to stretch, to grow, to trust God. That was before we even start talking about sin entering the world. And so the notion that like we were supposed to be on cruise control and that we were never

going to be tired or never question ourselves, we were meant to be in partnership and relationship with God. And I just, I think I feel a burden now more than ever for us to really surrender to fellowship and not just fruitfulness. You know, like I think that when we make it just about what fruit can I produce and if I don't produce fruit then I'm gone, that we miss out on the beauty of like being rooted

in our faith to not let the fruit define us because we're going to have pruning seasons, but to be rooted in fellowship in every season, in the seasons where there's abundance and in the season where there's nothing showing. I want us to be in real relationship with God. And I'll be honest, like as God has increased my influence and the people who are connected to my voice, it makes me even more desire is a fellowship

because I want to make sure that I am leading people to something that is real, something that cannot be taken away. That's what I want. And I lean into voices like your own, and I am inspired by your journey because I sense that when I have finished listening to one of your messages on YouTube, that I am inspired by your journey because I sense that when I have finished listening to one of your messages on YouTube that I am closer to God than I was then the moment I heard it. And I just I'm excited about you coming to Womany Ball for that very reason. I'm excited about it too. I'm grateful that you included me. I am grateful. Can you give us like so our theme is surrender. So can you just tell me like when

you hear that word surrender, what comes to mind for you? What comes to mind for me is what Jesus said and I believe it's Luke chapter nine, that if anyone wishes to come after me, here's what surrender looks like. He will deny himself, take up his

cross and follow me. Those are three realities that will deny himself, take up his cross and follow me. Those are three realities that honestly, in a lot of cases necessitates a solid divorce for much of what we have purported and promoted that a deep walk with Christ looks like. It looks less like selfish ambition and more like selflessness and a release of all that we want and grabbing

hold of what we want. Taking up your cross looks like death. Something's got to die. There's something in your flesh, your ambitions, your goals that you're going to see don't necessarily maybe line up as you begin, like you said, to fellowship and walk with Christ more and more. And he starts revamping what your ideals are, what your values are, where he starts showing you this part of your life, your attitudes, your entertainment choices, your hobbies, nothing. Maybe they're not even sinful. It's not that they're sinful.

It's just they're taking first place. They're more of a priority than walking in fellowship with me. So maybe something has to be crucified so that you can really be his disciple. That's what I think of. And that's because that's what the Lord has been teaching and showing me. What does it look like Priscilla to deny yourself, to take up your cross and to follow me, to surrender fully and completely everything that you are, body, mind and spirit to me. And what I love about Luke chapter nine is that right before he said that, that's when he looked at his disciples and said, who do men say that I am?

Those multitudes that were pulling on him, they wanted all the miracles. And then he says, but wait a minute, who do all these people say? What do they say about me? And John says, oh, they say you're a good man. You know, Elijah, the Elijah, the prophet or John the Baptist, all these good guys that might've been a compliment for somebody except Jesus. Right. Who's in a class all by himself. And then he looks at the disciples, the ones who's who he is about to give this startling, staggering definition

of what discipleship rule acquire and surrender will require. He looks at them and says, but who do you say that I am? So before he offers this invitation to surrender, he wants to establish first his identity with these disciples because of his identity has been in some way distorted to us or skewed or we have diminished or made him smaller than who he is, then we will not fully do this discipleship, not this surrender yourself, deny yourself,

take up your cross. We won't be willing to do that if we don't have a correct view of who he is. And so just, I think, recalibrating Jesus, who are you? Not who does the culture, how have we modernized you? How have we dumbed you down and made you Jesus Jr. to placate our flesh and to make us feel good about what we want?

No, let me go back to the book and see who do you say that you are so that I can recalibrate you, center you. And to the extent that I do that, that will be the extent to which I'm willing to make him King as he deserves to be and to bring all of my life under the alignment fully surrendered to the lordship of Jesus Christ.

What's up? I'm Vince Carter and my podcast, The VC Show is coming back. Season two of the VC show is going to be bigger and better than ever. Every week during the NBA season I'll give you my real insights and opinions on the league. I have a lot to talk about and it won't always be basketball. If you listen to the show, you will get to know me, my life, and the things I care about. My family, friends, golf, music, and much more. Vince Sanchez Reigns Supreme. Subscribe to the pod and listen to the VC Show with me, Vince Carter, on the iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts or whatever you get your podcasts. Oh! It's over! It's over, ladies and gentlemen! Hey, what's that show? It's the VC Show.

Hey, what's that show? More, more, more, more, more, better. Hey, I'm Melissa Fumero and I'm Stephanie Beatriz. You may know us from television. Night, night. And now we're here with our very own podcast, More Better with Stephanie and Melissa. We've known each other for thousands of years.

And we've been through it all together. And we are totally killing it. We are literally the best. No notes. Life is great. Ha ha ha ha. None of that was true. JK, JK, join us on our excellent adventure

as we take on topics like listening to yourself. There were a lot of red flags and it did take me eight years to get there, but I got there. The challenge of self-care. This is important, because now you're about to be a mom of two kids. And making friends as an adult.

We're gonna share our struggles just white-knuckling through life, babe. We're gonna speak to experts and we're gonna share everything we learn with you. Listen to more better with Stephanie and Melissa as part of the Michael Duda Podcast Network available on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Everyone in our country has a voice. It's something that says not just where you come from, but who you are. Welcome to NPR's Black Stories, Black Truths, a collection of podcasts and a

celebration of the hosts in journalism who've always spoken truth to power. Our voices are as varied, nuanced and dynamic as the Black experience and stories should never be about us without us. Find NPR Black Stories, Black Truths on the iHeartRadio app or wherever you get your podcasts. Black Stories, Black Truths on the iHeartRadio app or wherever you get your podcasts. Okay, so now I'm just, thanks for listening to the podcast because now this is just mentorship moment because I have so many things I want to ask you about just our perspective on who Jesus is. And, you know, I think especially for me as I am someone who's often standing in the gap of that interpretation and really

desiring to get it right. So I've been preaching about the woman at the well, and there's a moment in the text where she goes ahead and she asks Jesus for a drink from this well that he speaks of, and he begins to talk to her about her relationships, which seems out of line based off of the course of conversation that they're having but I think it is directly connected to why she Needs to drink from this well, but in black church and I've only been in black church I don't know by any of the churches. So I don't know how they do it over there Tells her about where's your husband?

And she's like, you well said you have no husband, you have four and the one you have now is not your husband. Like we've always kind of positioned this in this idea of like Jesus was like checking her, putting her in her place. And recently as I was reading it, and I've just been obsessed with this woman at the well, I really feel like Jesus was not embarrassing her,

that he was not trying to shame her for her choices. I really sense that Jesus was trying to get her to really see her story, to embrace her truth and to embrace this cycle that she had been in over and over again that was still leaving her empty. And I think we all have those cycles. Hers was a relationship, but many of us have these cycles that ultimately leave us thirsty. I want to talk about the need to really not see Jesus through the lens of culture or society in a way that makes him someone who is embarrassing us or invested in our humiliation versus someone

who has the capacity to see our truth without judgment. Because there's a fine line between, you know, he without saying cast the first stone and don't judge me versus somebody's got to be able to show you your truth from a place of love. And then challenge you to break out of that cycle that has made your truth painful to bear.

What do you think about this perception of Jesus that I think many people have experienced in church that makes him one who will shame you and embarrass you versus one who will challenge and convict you in your truth to become better. Well, Shucks, I feel like you, you answered the question in the question. You gave a whole message right there,

but it is this beautiful thing where we see Jesus calling people to a standard of holiness and righteousness, but doing that with love and with grace and without condemnation. There is therefore now no condemnation to those of us who are in Christ Jesus. And he embodied that reality that he came to extend health to sick people, not to make them feel bad that they were sick. And so that's what Jesus did. And that's what he continues to do. And I think, like

you said a moment ago, we've begun to define Jesus by a cultural standard or modernized standard or what we've seen in church. We've equated that to be the same thing as Jesus. So if we've been abused by church leaders or hurt by them or disappointed by choices that they've made, because we even without knowing it maybe we sort of Idolize them or idealize them and then when they fell or when they hurt us or when we see their humanity We we put Jesus on that same Pedestal support that same lower pedestal and so we think that because they didn't have any grace toward us He doesn't either because they abused me he will too because they took advantage

He will too. So we have to watch all of our tendency to put our God on some sort of same playing field with any person, whether they're the lowest common denominator of humanity, or they are one that we admire and look up to. Both of those persons are not to be compared or are not to be the circumference of the way we view him. He's in a class and a category all by himself. So if we do anything other than I was trying to find a Bible sitting here, but if we go anything other than go to the book and say, who, who are you? You came this way.

You served this way. You lived a perfect life. You died. You died. You took on the sins of the world, having never sinned yourself. You took on my sin and died an excruciating death. What manner of love is this? What manner of man is this that would do that for me

and then would not leave me helpless, but would send the person of the Holy Spirit so that I can have comfort and have encouragement and supernatural insight and wisdom and strategy and you walking with me through the regular rhythms of transitions in life and disappointments. If you love me enough to die for me, why would I think you don't love me enough to sustain me until I see you face to face? That doesn't equal the kind of love that he displayed in the scriptures. So we have to move away from having compartmentalized him based on some person and we have to move

back to the scriptures and say Jesus who do you say that you are? Reintroduce yourself to me so that I can relate to you the way you deserve to be related to based on who you've declared yourself to be. That was a great question though. It's something that everybody's grappling with. I am so grateful just for your voice. I've never understood, I guess, how did you get in ministry? Like how did you get to this place in your life

where you became this voice that so many of us have leaned into? You know what? It's a, I would say it's a little bit by accident. It's a lot by accident. I feel like you would say something similar that you kind of just stumbling forward and then you start to recognize things that you didn't see as sovereign before like, Oh, this is God's hand. He's moving things around. So when I was in college, I got accepted to Spelman,

Howard and the University of Houston. I wanted to go to Spelman and Howard. Those were my two choices. And through a series of events, I ended up at my third choice, which was the University of Houston, mostly because I got some scholarship money. So my parents were like, that's where you're going. But while I was there, I was interning at a radio station in Houston just as a part of my degree in communications. And people started to call the radio station and say, hey, well that girl, they didn't know who I was,

would that girl come share a Bible study at our whatever. And so here I am a 19 year old freshman, and maybe four times a year I would show up and there'd be 10 women sitting there and I'd share God's word. A couple times I showed up and there were 500 women there and I walked in and I was like, I don't think they knew I was 19, but I would just share the same Bible study I would share to the 10 people. And to make a long story short, Sarah, the invitations to do that never stopped coming. It's been 25 years.

It's the same thing with writing. You could have never told me I would have, my English teacher in high school would tell you, I would never be a writer. Or certainly with films or anything like that, none of these things are things I strategize for or sought out. It's like the Lord put before me opportunities and invitations, and then He would give me

the choice. Do you want to go? Even though you're ill-equipped, even though you haven't been trained for this and all that, I'm getting ready to do something here. Do you want to partner with me? Are you going to let fear and insecurity keep you from doing it? The option is yours. And so I've just kept saying yes, not perfectly.

There's, you know, not, I don't look back on it and think I did it the best way I could have, but all I know is for 25 years, my husband and I have just kept walking through the doors he puts in front of us and saying yes. And then you look up one day and you look back and realize, oh my goodness, this was God's will, God's plan for my entire life.

And I didn't know it when I was 27 or 30 or 32 and raising small kids and just saying yes, and just saying yes to what God put in front of me. But all of a sudden, he just starts letting you have enough hindsight to look back and go, oh, there are your fingerprints. This is what you had planned. That I, yeah, I totally, I think the hardest part for me,

cause I definitely stumbled. I stumbled into this and I think moving from, I am probably at this stage now where I'm like, you should probably stop saying that you're stumbling through this. Like you stumbled into it. But yeah, I feel the same way. I just really, really want to make sure that I maintain, of course, humility, but I think authenticity and not

like authentic. Oh, thank you. Thank you. That's been my biggest thing. Cause I don't, I don't want the pedestal and I don't want to come off as perfect. And I want to share with you with passion what I'm learning about God, but I do not want to become your God. And I just, to continue to make it real for me, I feel like it has to be real for me.

So I don't know, it's an interesting thing when you are thrust into a destiny that you could not have even planned on your best day, and to not feel entitled to results or to become ambitious when I think the goal is to like just go with the flow. So like even with like the conference and it like being in a stadium, like I do not want to be like now the stadium girl, like it has to be in state, you know what I mean? Like good for you.

Fine. We're doing it in a stadium next year. We could be, it could be at my house. It can be in my living room. I don't know if it's gonna work at your house. It can be in my living room. It can be in my living room. I don't know if it's gonna work at your house, though. But I do, I feel like people try to like hijack

God's blessing and make it their success. And I just don't want that. I totally agree with you. And it's too much pressure. The weight of trying to, the weight of entitlement, the weight of pride is too heavy a load to walk with. And so I feel like to the extent that we just keep deflecting glory and pointing people to Jesus, He is the one. He's the only perfect one.

I'm not perfect, you ain't perfect. So don't expect that from me, I won't expect it from you. But if we all just keep our eyes on Jesus, man, I can't help because I've been listening on replay every day, all day to C.C. Winans new record. I dated myself because I said record, but it is what it is. That's all right. It's the record. But you know, all of her music, but I've been just soaking in this last one more than this.

And what I appreciate so much about a woman like Cece Winans and those like her is that all they have done, it brings tears to my eyes, for decades is point people to Jesus. You can give them awards. You can put plaques on the wall, platinum selling whatever, arenas. She was on American Idol the other night for decades all she has done is

Let me take every opportunity I can to deflect glory from me and to point people to Jesus She she and others like her are like a beacon for me a compass for me that remind me is not about me are like a beacon for me, a compass for me that remind me it's not about me. And I feel like, Sarah, if you and I will not only do that for ourselves, because it sure does take the pressure off so that we can enjoy our life and enjoy Jesus and enjoy our families, but it also will help the young women coming up after us to know

that this is what ministry is. It's supposed to be an overflow of a real friendship you have with Jesus. It's not a show. You can go be an entertainer and there's nothing wrong with that. Go be an entertainer or be a motivational speaker or just do whatever you wanna do.

But if you're choosing ministry, deny yourself. Take up your cross and follow Jesus and make sure everybody that comes along after you, they're not looking at you. They're trying to look at Jesus as much as they possibly can because you've spent so much time and energy trying to point them there. Amen. That's the J-Law right there because that's the goal. I feel like the greatest compliment I get is when people come, like they came to Womany Bob last year and I was nervous about it being big because I wanted it to still feel real. And they were like, it felt so intimate.

It felt so intimate. Now we were in the stadium and there were 40,000 women there. But the intimacy was how close everyone felt to Jesus in a room that big. And- Only the Holy Spirit could do that. That's only God.

Like, yeah, that's my goal. That's my heart. I love you. I love you so much. And I appreciate you. I celebrate you. I'm cheerleading you. I'm praying for you.

I'm asking God to put a hedge of protection around you, Sarah, around your husband, your children, everything attached to you that the hedge of God's protection would be around your mind, your body, your spirit in the name of Jesus Christ. Amen. Thank you. You're welcome. You're my sister forever. Stuck, stuck like Chuck. I love you. Thank you so much for taking time to do this Love it. So grateful. I Tried to tell you I know that I Just know that you were as blessed as I was in speaking with her I hope that you have your tickets for the woman evolve conference because you talk about just sitting at the feet and soaking up

Everything that Jesus has taught her on this journey and what she can share with us for our journey. That is me, that is you, that is we at Women Evolve 2024. Make sure you have your tickets. You can visit womenevolveconference.com to get all of the details about this incredible experience that I know is tremendously going to bless your life. It is September 26th through 28th in Arlington, Texas. Can I tell you something? You're about to spend all summer watching people invest in themselves, investing in your children,

trying to figure out what you need to do with the remainder of your life. Come to WalmanyBall 2024 and get some word from God. Get some direction, get some community, fill your cup so that you can continue to pour in all of the right spaces and places for where you have been destined, assigned, anointed to be all of who God's called you to be. So I love you all. I hope you enjoyed this

episode. I'm back in my bag if you cannot tell. And I cannot wait to spend the summer growing, learning and evolving with you. I'll talk to you next week. Oh, we gotta pray. God, thank you for mentors, mentors from afar and mentors up close. Thank you for knowing what we need and when we needed, even in the midst of transition. God, I pray that this podcast blessed every listener,

that it met them in a space where they have felt some uncertainty, maybe even some grief, perhaps a sense of calling, but they aren't sure how to step into it. God, I pray that even as this podcast comes to a close, that your conversation with them would begin to open up, that they would dare to begin asking you questions, seeking your face, seeking your presence, that they may become one step closer to who you've always known that they could be. God, I pray that we have helped them get one step closer to seeing your face and as a result,

that they see themselves more clearly. Bless every listener. Bless this podcast. Continue to give us wisdom, grace, and strategy on the intersection of faith and humanity, of faith and fear, of faith and fun, of faith and passion that you have allowed us to occupy. In Jesus' name I pray, amen. Evolve. off. NBA season, I'll give you my real insights and opinions on the league.

Subscribe to the pod and listen to the VC show with me, Vince Carter, on the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Everyone in our country has a voice. It's something that says not just where you come from, but who you are. Welcome to NPR's Black Stories, Black Truths, a collection of podcasts and a celebration of the hosts in journalism who've always spoken truth to power. Our voices are as varied, nuanced, and dynamic

as the Black experience, and stories should never be about us without us. Find NPR Black Stories, Black Truths on the iHeartRadio app or wherever you get your podcasts. Delve into the visceral world of hip hop with the Gangsta Chronicles hosted by MC Yade and Big Steel. Zerry 30, a podcast that aims to unravel the intricate tapestry of one of music's most influential and misunderstood subgenres, gangster rap.

Gangster Chronicles unpacks the evolution of this uniquely American art form, offering listeners a comprehensive understanding of the significance this genre holds. Listen to the Gangster Chronicles on the Black Effect Podcast Network, iHeartRadio app, or wherever you get your podcasts.