Woman Evolve with Sarah Jakes Roberts - Surrender Your Comfort w/ Tasha Cobbs Leonard

Episode Date: August 21, 2024

 Is SJR picking up on something? 'Cause this week's guest seems to be settling into her G.O.A.T. status. That' right, Sis—W.E. said what W.E. said, and the glow-up of Tasha Cobbs Leonard is clearly by God! While there ain’t no one-hit wonders over here, the two differentiate between the anointing vs. one’s humanity. Tasha shares what it means to see God through a worldview and opens up about her personal life, taking us on a journey from dark spaces to mountaintop experiences. If you ever told God to “get somebody else to do it”, hit PLAY and discover the beauty of surrender at womanevolveconference.com! See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Hello, from Wonder Media Network, I'm Jenny Kaplan, host of Womanica, a daily podcast that introduces you to the fascinating lives of women history has forgotten. Who doesn't love a sports story? The rivalries, the feats of strength and stamina. But these tales go beyond the podium. There's the teen table tennis champ, the ice skater who earned a medal and a medical degree, and the sprinter fighting for Aboriginal rights. Listen to Womanica on the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

Hey, y'all. Dr. Joy here. I invite you to join me every Wednesday on the Therapy for Black Girls podcast, a weekly chat about mental health and personal development, where my expert guest and I discuss the unique challenges and triumphs faced by black women through the lens of self-care, pop culture, and building the best version of you. So if you're looking for more ways to incorporate wellness into your life, listen to the Therapy for Black Girls podcast on the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcast, or wherever you get your podcast. Given the ingredients that you have available to you right now, what is the dream you possess

for your life? What does it look like? Who would you be? What types of activities would you engage in? Because I want you to follow up with what you have now. You know, I think we need to get back to building altars. So when I come to another season that challenges me, where it's challenging my faithfulness, I can go back and say, well in 2024, this is what God did. Week two, what it do, it's your girl, SJR, and I am back at it, back where I've never left.

How are you? What's going on in your world? I am so grateful for the outpouring of just love and positivity and prayers and all of the good things that you all sent me last week. Thank you for being my therapist, still I'm not paying you. I actually ended up doing a vlog, just kind of sharing on my social media

some of the same things that I shared with you and it seemed like it resonated with a lot of people. So I am grateful, I'm always grateful to be reminded that I'm not on my own. And what's really interesting is, man, this is just affirming me even as I'm talking, but I've had some sermons that have helped a lot of people. Sometimes I've been on interviews and that's helped a lot of people,

but I really feel like nothing has been more powerful than showing the places where God meets me. And so I just want this to be a reminder to someone who may be doing well in one lane, but you've been avoiding vulnerability and transparency out of fear of just being exposed. I just want you to know that you would be surprised how many people are waiting for someone to say the thing that they keep inside. And any opportunity that I get to do that, I hope that I find the sensitivity and courage to lean into that. One, it helps me and I think together it reminds us that we're normal and if we're more like than we are different,

then maybe we can evolve together. So I'm grateful, I love you. I am actually like, I'm going on vacation with my parents, pray for me. My mother's 69th birthday is, it's already passed by the time you're listening to this, but we're gonna take them on a vacation. And I'm just praying that it's gonna be amazing.

You know, we have not vacationed with my parents since we started working together more closely. And I wanna believe that we're gonna vacate. I wanna bring my book and we're gonna see if we vacate. I believe believing God. My mother loves to sleep so I don't even expect that I will see my mother until like the fourth or fifth day and then it'll be time to go. But we're going to see.

I'm going to sleep. I'm going to take advantage. Listen, it's been an amazing, adventurous summer. I am tired and I want to take full advantage. So I'm, I'm vacating. I can't speak for anyone else. I want to take full advantage. So I'm, I'm vacating. I can't speak for anyone else. I want to change the world. I want to help people.

I want to do all of the things, but I want to vacate. So that is my portion. I can't wait though, to get into this week's episode. I feel like it's going to be one that you really enjoy. My friend, Tasha Cobbs Leonard joined me and we talked about all of the things. She is a powerhouse in the spirit but she deeply believes in showing your scars and telling your story and showing how God has challenged you, how you've grown and so I know that you're going to be grateful for this transparency but first I got to mind somebody's business. Let's

get to it. This week's letter reads, it says, I hope you see this letter. You are amazing. Thank you from preaching to writing books to podcasting. You always give a good word that blesses me. Thank you. She says I'm a 31 year old mother with a seven year old boy and recently moved to a new city as well as broke off a situation shift that was going on for almost a year. Me and the guy never committed, but I had a hard time letting go because of the potential I saw in him.

I'm in this season of my life where I am just working on loving myself more and being more confident with myself which are things that I've struggled with lately. I believe it's a result of the negative relationships I've been in that affected my self-esteem. I'm dating, but no prospects yet. I have a desire to get married and hope that God brings that right person into me and my child's life. I've always heard it comes when you least expect it and not looking, but it can be challenging at times.

I'm trying to work on releasing that desire and surrendering to God more because a part of me feels like the person for me hasn't come because of my challenges with loving myself and being with myself and also just really wanting to be married now. I just wanted some advice around just this waiting self love season in advance. Thank you boo for reaching out to me. I have to tell you sometimes I feel a little uncomfortable giving the dating advice

because I have been married almost 10 years and I'm ignorantly talking about how you should show up in a season that I've never been in. I've been single before, I've been in a waiting season before but I have not been single in 2024 and they tell me the streets are different. So I just want to give that disclaimer. Second thing I want to say is this the waiting season can be very difficult, especially when in your mind, the idea of partnership and really building a life with someone is going to maybe not complete your life because I think that most of us are too proud to say we think it will complete our life. But when

we see it as something missing, it certainly weighs on us. When I first got divorced before I met my husband, I was so tired. I was in such a season of like, I would rather be by myself than do this wrong. And I had a few opportunities for situationships and the situation situated and then eventually I needed to get situated and so I said to myself this, you need to really start checking

off these boxes. So in your mind, you know, you want to be strong, you want to learn another language, you want to learn how to cook these things. You want to create an environment for your children where you're exploring and maybe taking road trips. And so I started dreaming of my life with the current ingredients. I want to challenge you to do the same. Given the ingredients that you have available to you right now, what is the dream you possess for your life? What does it look like? Who would you be? What types of activities would you engage in? Because I want you to fall in love with what you have now. That doesn't mean that it's not coming. That

doesn't mean I'm not going to tell you that like there are these 10 things that you should do and then you'll be in a relationship. I am saying that you should distract yourself with yourself. Distract yourself with the dreams with the creativity with the curiosity Distract yourself with the dreams, with the creativity, with the curiosity that exists inside with you. Experience joy. You've got this seven-year-old boy, like what can we do to look at his gifts and talents and put him in an environment where he can flourish? What about your own? Do you want to be a flexible queen? Do you want to be a flexible queen? Do you want to be a track

star? Do you want to be a master chef? Do you want to learn coding? Do you want to be a black girl who's I don't even know Courtney are you I don't girl? Do you want to be a girl who swims? Like I would just start dreaming of like all of the things that you didn't get a chance to do or never thought you'd be able to do and start living your life loud right now. Because here's the reality, the idea that someone's not with you because you're not loving yourself properly.

Could it be true? Maybe, but there are a lot of people who don't love themselves properly who are in relationships right now. Are they the healthiest? Probably not. So because of the type of relationship that you want that you want to be at your healthiest Healthiest that you want a person who is also at their healthiest

My suggestion to you is to begin to become even more healthy in every way possible spiritually emotionally mentally physically creatively begin to just focus on your own health and desires. And from that place, who knows? Maybe he's sitting at a cooking class. Maybe he's also a swimmer. We don't know where he is. All we know is where you are

and what you have to work with. And instead of searching for him, I say, dive into you. I hope that helps. Evolve. searching for him as they dive into you. I hope that helps evolve. Between work, the gym, family, I am overwhelmed. Sis, are you feeling overwhelmed? You're not alone. I'm Dr. Joy Harden Bradford, licensed psychologist and host of the Therapy for Black Girls podcast. And I'm bringing candid mental health conversations straight to your podcast feed.

We'll unpack everything from conquering imposter syndrome to nurturing your friendships. Join me and my expert guests as we explore mental health and personal development. Whether you're just starting your mental health journey, entering motherhood, thinking about becoming a therapist, or just trying to show up as the best possible version of yourself. Listen to Therapy for Black Girls

on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hello, from Wonder Media Network, I'm Jenny Kaplan, host of Womanica, a daily podcast that introduces you to the fascinating lives of women history has forgotten. This month, we're bringing you the stories of athletes. There's the Italian race car driver who courted danger and became the first woman to compete in Formula One. The sprinter who set a world record and protested racism and discrimination in the U.S. and around the world in the 1960s. The diver who was barred from swimming clubs due to her race and went on to become the first Asian-American woman to win an Olympic medal.

She won gold twice. The mountaineer known in the Chinese press as the tallest woman in the world. And the ancient Greek charioteer who exploited a loophole to become the first ever woman to compete at the Olympic games. Listen to Wamanica on the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. We're going to talk this week about blending family, finding our purpose, surrendering, all of the things. But I wanted to take a minute and just talk about blending a family.

There's literally no manual for it. The best scenarios, you have two people who realize that they're better as parents than partners and want to make sure that they are a healthy part of the village and a consistent part of the village for your children. I have experienced this with my husband and the mother of his children. I have not experienced this on my side. Talking about a blended family can be sometimes difficult. Many times people want to ask me or people ask me, do you have any tips?

I can tell you that some of the things that I did when we were blending our family, which by the way, a lot of times we talk about blending a family in the context of dating someone who has children and having to deal with that person's partner. But what two years ago, two years ago, our oldest daughter, my bonus daughter got married and even watching her and her husband and us engaging with his family, blending of families, anytime two people are coming together from different cultures, different families, and you're trying to figure out how you navigate moving together as a unit. I will tell you that I think one of the universal rules that apply, no matter if you're blending

partners with, blending families with a partner and children, or you're just starting off your marriage, is that you and your person, you and the person who is responsible for you blending this family, you and the person who has, they're the invitation. If it were not for them, you would not be in this situation. Have to have a vision, a consensus on what blending that family is going to look like. My husband and I shared some of the same values as parents. We also understood that us coming together would require for us to cast a vision for that family.

My husband's very technical, so for him him casting a vision is literally like, let's sit down and set goals. But you all just understanding like, you know, this is how we want to discipline, this is how we want to communicate. And I will say so much of what we learned was literally by trial and error. Because we learned in the heat of the moment, it's like, okay, one of the child, one of the children are having an issue at school. I am more likely to handle that because I'm more engaged with what's happening at school. It doesn't matter if it was my child or his child.

I'm the one who knows what's happening at the schools. But if there was something on a discipline side, I recognize that I don't have the equity to discipline that child and he didn't have the equity yet to discipline my children. We would talk about what discipline we thought was proper. There were some times where I wanted to let some things go where he was like, no, we need to handle this and that would require some wrestling and us getting on the same page. Then we always presented a united front. As much as you can, make sure that you and your partner are talking about what your family life is going to look like.

What are the boundaries for in-laws? What are the boundaries for the other co-parent? Making sure that there was a clean break there is really important. If there's not a clean break, it can be very difficult to blend a family with someone who feels betrayed, hurt, wounded, robbed. Listen, life happens and sometimes you're not able to get that clean break, but taking ownership, apologizing, being empathetic that the person has their own journey and

process and they're going to need time. Just making sure that you're not expecting something from someone where you don't necessarily have the equity or the experience to really ask for them to give you grace, I guess. I don't know if grace is that word, but liberty. I will say liberty. The most powerful tool you can use is prayer. There were times where maybe I felt misunderstood. Maybe I wasn't sure that we were making the right decisions.

And I would just say like, God, if this is what we're supposed to do, please make it clear for me. Or like, God, please soften his heart in order for us to have this. Soften my heart in order for me to receive what he's saying. If I am parenting from a trauma, if I'm parenting from a wound, if I'm letting something go because of how I was raised or wasn't raised, highlight those things so that I can do not what I think is best, but what you think is best. Those are some tips that were really helpful for me. Tasha is going to talk in this

episode about her blended family experience going to Disneyland, how it worked well for them. I want you guys, if you're in the midst of blending a family, to just know that it is possible to have a healthy dynamic. Does it take some time, some sensitivity, some navigation? Sure, but it's worth it when you're able to create a safe environment for the children where they don't feel torn or split. And that's one of the things that I really celebrate my husband and the mother of his

children for doing this. Like we really just wanted the kids to be okay. We wanted the kids to be taken care of. And I think early on there were probably, and we talked about this, if you go back to some of our throwback episodes, we actually did a podcast together, but there were definitely some times where it was like, ugh! We take a deep breath, but at the end of the day,

we're going to be okay. But I am grateful to say that we're almost 10 years down the road. The kids are older now. We don't engage as much, but we certainly love and connect on, you know, special holidays and birthdays. So let me tell you,

if you don't know who Tasha Cobbs Leonard is, your life is about to be blessed because she is an incredible gift to the body of Christ. She's an incredible gift to this world and not just her anointing and ministry though, if that is all we talked about, that would be enough. Tasha Cobbs Leonard is an international superstar. If she's listening to this, I want you to know that she's cringing, but I'm about to

gas her up because she needs the gas. She doesn't need the gas, but because she doesn't need the gas, she needs the gas. She has really just taken the gift and the anointing that God has given her and been a steward that has broken down barriers that have separated us culturally, that has separated genres, that has separated race and just diaspora. And she has found herself as one of the lead voices as it relates to, I don't even want to talk about like gospel music because it's so much bigger than gospel music. She is the prophetic song that God

has sung over this generation. She has been sensitive and creative and innovative and just an incredible steward of the gift that God has given her. And so I am honored that over the last year, no, probably the last two years, we've gone from people who were just acquaintances to someone who I would really consider one of my good friends. She is so consistent. We both like to be unbothered and we like to just be introverted. It's never any pressure. She'd be like, hey, I'm in town. I'm coming.

Then she'd be like, hey, something came up. I'd be like, girl, don't worry about it. But it never feels like we are trying with one another. It just feels like a beautiful flow. And now I can't wait for you to flow with her as I have. Let's get into this week's episode with Tasha Cobbs Leonard. Okay, so I'm curious. I feel like you have like, many of us have been on the outside looking in of your journey and we have seen you like kind of blossom before our eyes. One of the things that I have noticed is that it really feels like you're stepping into this. And I know you're not going to like this, but I'm noticed is that it really feels like you're stepping into this.

And I know you're not going to like this, but I'm going to say it anyway. Like I feel like you're stepping into your goat status. Like I think that you are embracing the experiences and the lessons of your life and your career and you're owning them with just a confidence that feels new. Are we picking up on something like, or like tell me what are we experiencing of you in this stage of your life? That is so much to digest. Okay, that's fine.

You already knew it. Okay, but you know what? I think you get to this place, and we've kind of had this conversation before, where you settle in your assignments, your purpose, and your calling. And a lot of times throughout life, it takes processing,

and not saying that you're not going through processes after you hit a certain place in life, it's just that you take the lessons that you've learned through the portion of your process that you've gone through and you settle in it. Like, hey, I've gone through seasons of ups and downs. And in those seasons before when I was younger, a little less inexperienced, just like the children of Israel, I'm questioning God, like, what's happening?

But we have so much history now that is like, I know this season is teaching me something. It's not, it's a lesson. And if I learn the lesson, it's going to be much more beneficial for me in my future. And it's working for my good ultimately. And I think you just kind of settle in that. Like maybe what you're seeing is a settling. Like there's a foundation that has been built and now I'm confident in how firm it is. Mm. Mm. I'm just letting that marinate, because I do think that there are so many transitions in our life that we can be afraid of settling.

But being able to settle while recognizing more transitions are coming requires a level of trust that I think is just difficult to lean into, but I do feel like I'm like beginning to like really scratch the surface of it. I feel like you've been in ministry, like I feel like you've been in ministry much longer than I have, so.

More than life. Much longer. Much longer than I have. I just, I just feel like I woke up and was like, oh my gosh, I'm here and God's given me this anointing and this gift and what am I supposed to do with it? And can I trust it? Like, have you ever questioned whether or not

the grace on your life was like, is this a one-off? Is it temporary or is this where I'm supposed to be anchored? Truly, truly I have. And it's more so in certain areas than others. People always talk to me about these other avenues. I have a lot of requests sometimes, much more frequently recently, coming in for acting and TV and plays, this kind of vibe.

I am so not confident. I am so not confident in that. I'm like, okay, maybe this is a one-off. I'll do this one and maybe nobody will ever invite me again. Maybe my name will just be poof, she's gone. But then there are times I'm super confident in my ability to Inspire other worship leaders or you know you came to my conference I lead I'm confident in that space like I have something to pour because I've done this for years

But then you know I could get on the stage and people think I'm super confident and I'm like, oh Prime example, I will give you a prime example. I never told you about this So woman evolved last year because, you know, we had Chandler up there, we got Naomi, all these amazing worship leaders, Trinity, and they're doing this like currently. I don't technically lead worship from week to week anymore. So I wasn't super confident that,

hey, I can get out here and do this. So they all go out on stage, hey, I can get out here and do this. So they all go out on stage. I hang in the background. Chandler comes in like, T, Auntie, what are you doing? Come on, come on. I'm literally standing back there like, you, girl. Literally, that was the moment.

It was such a, it broke when we were, when we began to sing the song. But I was in this moment where I'm backstage questioning myself, like, do you still have this? Or, you know, have you passed the torch? Just let them do it. You know they can do it. So, yes, it happens.

It doesn't happen often like that. But that is a prime example where I'm literally leaning on the strength of God. Yeah. I just, I made a note because I want them to insert a clip from Womany Ball 24 when you were up there worship leading because when you have nothing but the Lord to depend on things happen, that's all I'm going to say. Things happen.

Now I was backstage like, Lord, I ain't going out there. And you went out there, oily. Okay, so I have a question. So I think most of us have experienced like your gift. Like most of the people who are listening have maybe just been on the receiving end of your gift. But as of late, you've also been sharing your life and the story behind the anointing.

So I think even that example, most people would have never guessed because when you're out there and you're completely depending on the Lord, it's hard to separate what's the Lord and what's you, right? It's all coming in one package. And I feel like you've been very intentional talking about your journey, talking about grief,

talking about your mental health, to not just allow people to see your anointing. How important is it, do you believe, for this generation of ministry and the generation of leaders to show here's the gift, here's the anointing, here's the growth, here's the stretching, here's the struggling? How important is it that you think that's on the display? Because I would dare say that there may have been generations before that felt like all they need is the Jesus in you. They don't need to know anything else.

What do you think is happening where that exchange is taking place? My mind goes to so many places with that question and I think I'll land here. I was actually just speaking with someone at my label the other day when we were talking about the many gifts that this next generation have. It's like they come here knowing how to play every instrument, they can sing you under a pew, but they also have the pressures of social media

that makes everything look like it happened overnight. And so what you find is a lot of times they are intimidated by something that looks like process. But I believe if we show them evidence that process works and is sustainable, it's the thing that helps you maintain the precious gift that God has given you. And a lot of times I think they're more influenced by the overnight success because they have not seen the success of the process.

And so when I, like writing the book, Do It Anyway, I exposed a lot of the stories behind the success or behind the songs. Like everybody will hear Break Every Chain, but they don't know that I was literally in the darkest place of my life, two and three days under the covers with curtains closed, plagued by rejection and anxiety.

And that song was one of the tools that was used to help me experience my freedom. But unless I tell that story, people will just think, hey, this is a cute melody. We love to sing it. It works at our church. But there's true deliverance in it that I've experienced myself. And without me sharing that testimony, people will just think, oh, she heard this song somewhere. She wanted to record it and it was a hit.

No, it's so much deeper than that. And so I think now it's important that we show them process works if you allow time to do what it does. The Bible talks about seed time and harvest. And a lot of times we don't like to show the time. We want to go from seed to harvest. And I don't know if that's the most productive way of accomplishing success.

Okay. So do you ever worry? Because I think especially in, I want to say black church, but I've only been raised in black church. So this could happen in any church, right? So I always like to say that disclaimer, but I do think that there's like this intertwining of like struggling and anointing and like you don't have the struggle, you can't have the anointing and like this song that was so powerful came from one of the darkest seasons of your life.

Does it ever make you afraid of peace, happiness and joy? if some of these most powerful moments of ministry occurred in darkness? Like, does it ever make you wonder, like, do I have to continue, continue experiencing this level of deep darkness in order to produce that level of glory? Or is there a stage in my life where there can be glory and joy? Oh, I know, right? or is there a stage in my life where there can be glory and joy? Ooh. I know, right? That's really strong.

And it kind of, I have a testimony of kind of the flip side of that, and maybe I can answer it. I don't even know if this is the answer. I'll just talk about it. So my first album was called Smile. Yeah. It had all of these songs like, I want to make you smile, you make me happy, I've got confidence in you. And I often heard people tell me that that album was so, had such an impact on their lives because they were so used to gospel being, oh, I came out of this or my family, you know, and this one was kind of the flip side of that. And so, I really respect this question a lot because you do hear a lot of struggle, a lot

of hardship, and bam, now I'm blessed. I think we should often lean in a little bit more to the mountain experiences in our lives. I can't necessarily say that a lot of the testimony that I shared recently have come from that, but there are some. Even when it comes to our blended family, that is a mountain experience for me. It's something that I thought I would never have.

I literally just, I never, my mother would tell you, I never dreamt of a wedding. We never sat down, we planned a wedding. I didn't know. It wasn't something that I denied. It wasn't something that I said, hey, I'll never get married, but I just didn't know. So for me, the type of marriage that we have,

the type of family that we have, I've been able now to birth some songs from those types of experiences. So I love that we have, I've been able now to birth some songs from those types of experiences. So I love that we put a spotlight on that. I can't necessarily say that I have the answer, but I do believe that the space where I live and life now, that is a testimony that a lot of the songs in the ministry that you hear from me now, they come from a place of, hey, this was on a mountain experience. And not necessarily always in the valley.

Maybe because we're creative sometimes, it's easier to write from an emotional space. For sure, right? Sometimes with my messages, I'm like, and how does this apply to someone who's not going through it? Like, I think we're, I don't know, I do think it's a conditioning that is cultural,

but I do think that we are so often just in survival mode that we know how to war cry. We know how to get you ready for warfare. We know how to push you to the other side. And sometimes I am questioning and challenging myself on like, what does it look like to embrace the seasons where it's not a fight? And what is the message in those moments?

I guess it's praise and gratitude. Yeah. And I think too, this is a little challenging, but I believe that our worship expressions culturally are different because God made us in a way we will never be able to live without one another. I learned a lot of things from the way that my white sisters and brothers or Hispanic sisters and brothers express their worship that I may not have grown or known culturally from the black experience. And I think they can gather the same from us. and brothers express their worship that I may not have grown or known culturally from

the black experience. And I think they can gather the same from us. So maybe that's a part of it. Like he's like, until you cross that bridge, right, right, right. Have some conversation with people that don't look like you didn't grow up like you, then you will not experience the God that they know. So I mean, we can look at it that way. Oh, that is so good.

OK, but and I think that thank you. You're making me a good journalist because one of the things that I admire about you is that you have crossed over. Like when I started seeing that you were doing songs with Bethel, like I won't say that is unheard of, but like, I mean, it felt new and different that you would blend these two styles. And I do think that we are all writing, preaching about our experience and expression of who God is.

And there is something explorative at minimum, sometimes inspiring, about seeing the way God looks through a different worldview and allowing that to expand your possibilities for who God can be in your world as well. At what point, was that intentional, this crossing over? Did it just happen? Like, and why do you think it was important? I think a lot of times we have a calling and we have an assignment and accepting it is the intentional part.

Now that I feel this pull and this draw, it's up to me now to maximize on it and do it to the best of my ability and excellence. So I will say, with the release of Break Every Chain, it was not my intention at all. It's just that that song crossed over so many bridges. We're talking culture and nationality maybe. It went to those who may not ever come to church, people that some would call heathens, they were reaching, it reached them, so many bridges.

But after that song, I started to receive so many requests for my presence and my ministry on different platforms that I had not been, had access to before. And so it was up to me to be intentional about that and not to mute my blackness. I feel like who I am, I grew up Pentecostal holiness, you gonna get it no matter what I'm singing. So if I'm singing,

break every chain or amazing grace, that's gonna come out and I could only be me. So in accepting that calling, I was intentional about making sure, hey, when I cross the bridge, I want to make sure that I take something that the people who are on that side of the bridge can glean from. And vice versa. I was there learning a lot of things.

I have an example that I think is just so cute. We were writing some songs for my album, Heart, Passion, Pursuit. And Kenny and I had gone to LA to do some writing with this guy, he's an amazing writer, his name is Jonas Myron. But he also plays very well, and so he got on the piano and he was like, this is how I hear the melody of this song going, and he would play these chords,

blah, blah, blah, blah, and then he asks Kenny to get on and play the keyboard, the same chords, everything. So Kenny gets on, he plays, and when Kenny starts playing, Jonas goes, oh my god, he's blown away. What did you just do? And Kenny responds and was like, I just played the same chords that you played, but the interpretation comes from our cultural expression.

And so Jonas got back on, he's like, but this is what I did. And they both realized we are playing the same chords. It just comes from a different expression. And that moment just taught me so much. Like I can sing the same melody, I can do the same riff, but it comes from a different type of expression that may impact people's lives differently.

And I think that's one of the reasons why it is very important that we cross those bridges, because you never know what type of inspiration that you're missing. I feel like your experience with crossing that bridge had to have played a role in how successfully you have been able to blend your family, because walking into a blended family situation,

you have to have, you have to understand that we gonna have to build a bridge. We gonna need to build a bridge. First of all, everyone got to agree we need a bridge here. Okay, and then we have to honor the fact that you have something on your side of the bridge that I don't have. And I've got something on this side that you need as well.

And trying to figure out how to make that exchange and to do it with an open heart, I think is beautiful when it happens well, which you've experienced. But I do feel like that was preparation. What advice, like if you could give someone who's trying to blend a family right now, like what advice would you give them

based off of what you have learned so far? I think the first thing that I would say is allow most times the thing that's agitating you about the blending is probably a mirror. Like it's something that you need to see about yourself. And a lot of the things like my, our most challenging baby would have been Symphony for me. And if the truth told symphony acts so much like me, that those little things that were nagging me the most was God trying to show me, hey Tasha,

these are some things that if you correct it in yourself, then you will see a much better symphony. And so I had to allow myself to unfog the mirror and really see Tasha in those situations. And so I had to allow myself to unfog the mirror and really see Tasha in those situations. And I allowed my children to teach me a lot about me. So for me, I didn't have any children going into our marriage. And so it was my first time. So I also had to allow my husband

and our children's birth mom to be my instructors. Like, hey, these are some of the ways that we have chosen to, you know, to raise the kids. And eventually my input became something that was worthy of them receiving. Once I was like, okay, let me sit back and watch how this works. And then I would go to them and say, you know, I was just kind of thinking about this. And maybe if we do it this way with Nehemiah, he would receive it better. And I noticed that they respected my input because they realized that I was taking it

very seriously, that I was a vital part of the parental unit for our children. So those are just some of the things that, and you can't rush it. You know, our kids, our oldest at the time when I came into her life, she was 16. So she was old enough to comprehend a lot about relationships. So there were places of honesty with her that I just had to sit down and say, you know, I understand where you are. I understand that these changes are a lot right now, but just know that I love you. I'm here, you know, for whatever you need. And right now, she's the one who leans into the entrepreneur in me. She leans into all of these different things.

She's going to call me and say, hey, Miss Tasha, this opportunity came up. What would you do? So that's my baby girl. She did. She went to college, blazed it. Now she has a job, all these kind of things. But had I not sat down and had those hard conversations

with her, she was also the protective one over her younger siblings. So when there was something, if she felt like I was fussing at symphony too much, she was going to be the one to stand up like, nah, nah, nah, you know? So I had to receive that from them and make sure that I checked myself. Or when I was right, stand on the fact that you're right. So there's several different, there's so many different avenues you can go with blending a family and we're still working at it. Now we have adult children. So it's a little different even with the adult kids and you know that you have the adult

children and it's different in raising because you're still raising them. They're 18, 21. They think they're grown, not necessarily. What's so funny to me is that you said you observed before offering input, which I think is actually very key. I would have never given that language. I think I'm naturally someone who just minds their business and let people just do what they're going to do. And then it took me kind of being back in the corner to kind of be like, oh, I'm going to have to say something because I don't think we can keep doing things this way.

But I do think that that is a very healthy way of coming into a blended family situation because there are dynamics at play that you don't always understand and how they raise their children may be different than what you prioritize. And it doesn't mean that what you prioritize is wrong or that what they prioritize is wrong.

It's just that there's a balancing act. I feel like that is great advice, like taking the time to observe, whether you have children or don't have children, like taking the time to observe how do things function, how does this child work before you decide to project your ideas of the way things should be. Because I will be honest, there are a lot of people

who I have met who are blending families, and they're like, oh no, they need to clean up differently, they need to talk differently, and when we get made, they're gonna do this, they're gonna do that. And it's like, you might not wanna go into it with this long list of things that they need to do differently

while they're still trying to figure out who you are, and you're trying to figure out who they are. Yeah, you gotta be open. You have to be open. I remember our baby mama's, birth mom's name is Shia. And I remember the initial conversation that we had before Kenny and I even got married. She called me and she had just seen an interview with Jada Pinkett and Will Smith's baby mother where they were talking to each other. And they were talking about how with Jada Pinkett and Will Smith's baby mother where they were talking to each other.

They were talking about how much Jada loves her son. She didn't see anything different between how she treated her natural children and how she treated her son. She sent me a clip of the interview and in the text message she said, this is how I feel about you. She said, I love you because of the way you love my children. And I think going in expressing love much more than, hey, this is my list of rules.

This is what y'all gonna do. I'm that parent, blah, blah, blah. Instead I went in, hey, I just wanna love you where you are. And let's figure out our relationship outside of your dad, outside of your mom, what's our thing? And that was my approach to our children. I will say that blending a family is so much easier when the two people who work together have had a clean split

because I know that a lot of times what makes it complicated is like if the biological parents have to have to change their dynamic as a result of a new person entering in the picture, then there can be resentfulness towards that person who's entering the picture. But when everyone's clear on like what it is and what it ain't, then I don't have to work through feeling. Yeah, then the parent can be like, I just need you to love my children and take care of my children because I'm not also still trying to hold on to something or upset or

trying to punish, you know? So I do think that if you're listening, like that would be one of the things that I would also add. It doesn't mean that it's impossible to blend a family if that's not the case, but I would just acknowledge that there could be more complications. Unblur the lines. Yes, honey. And let them unblur them. You don't unblur them for them.

Wow. I love it. And you have been so transparent. You guys went on vacation together. This is like a whole thing. So we did. So this was the first time. You posted this, so this is not me telling you. Am I telling you?

I can edit that out. But okay, okay, okay. Well, it's so cute how this happened. We did like, we had like a sneaker ball for the kids at our church. And she brought Symphony in for the sneaker ball. And we were just all just kind of hanging out, let the kids have fun.

And I mentioned, oh, Symphony and Nehemiah and Alana and Asher were all gonna take them, because I was singing at Disneyland at the time, I did a concert at Disneyland. And I was like, hey, we're just gonna make it a thing, a family thing, and she was like, I've been wanting to go to Disneyland, blah, blah, blah. We talked a little bit and she was like, do you mind if we tag along? And I was like, I've been wanting to go to Disneyland. Blah, blah, blah. We talked a little bit.

And she was like, do you mind if we tag along? And I was like, I guess so. Sure. So I talked to Kenny. Kenny's always just kind of blown away about these conversations that she and I have. He was like, y'all always coming up with something. He's like, yeah, it's cool with me.

So the kids had such an amazing time. It was the first time that the three of us had been together with all of them together. So it was super, super cool. And she's more of a fun parent. So she actually stayed at the park with them the whole time, which was a blessing, grace the Lord. Because we're,

I will see you at call time and a little bit after. So yeah, it was really, really good. Really good. As you were like- I remember posting that, it was people in the comments like, ah, nah, no ma'am. You know, everybody's testimony ain't everybody's testimony, but I thought it was great. Yeah. Yep, yep, yep. was great. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Between work, the gym, family. I, I am overwhelmed. Are you feeling overwhelmed? You're not alone. I'm Dr. Joy Harden Bradford, licensed psychologist and host of the Therapy for Black Girls podcast. And I'm bringing candid mental health conversations straight to your podcast feed. We'll unpack everything from conquering imposter syndrome to nurturing your friendships. Join me and my expert guests as we explore mental health and personal development. Whether you're just starting your mental health journey, entering motherhood,

thinking about becoming a therapist, or just trying to show up as the best possible version of yourself. Listen to Therapy for Black Girls on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hello, from Wonder Media Network, I'm Jenny Kapla, and host of Womanica, a daily podcast that introduces you to the fascinating lives of women history has forgotten. This month, we're bringing you the stories of athletes. There's the Italian race car driver who courted danger and became the first woman to compete in Formula One.

The sprinter who set a world record and protested racism and discrimination in the US and around the world in the 1960s. The diver who was barred from swimming clubs due to her race and went on to become the first Asian American woman to win an Olympic medal. She won gold twice. The mountaineer known in the Chinese press as the tallest woman in the world. And the ancient Greek charioteer who exploited a loophole

to become the first ever woman to compete at the Olympic Games. Listen to Wamanica on the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. As you are beginning to like step into this ghost status, you're getting settled, you're established, like, what does surrender look like for you at this stage of your life? I was, I'm really, really close friends with Travis Green. And we were having a conversation a few weeks ago

where he had said something and I was just like, oh, God's gonna make you uncomfortable again. God's gonna make you, you know, cause a lot of times you can, like we've been on platforms, we've sang in front of thousands, we've sang in front of hundreds. You know, even with you,

you preached in front of thousands, you preached in front of hundreds, and there comes this place, not of comfortability, but where you're, what's the word that I'm, it's something that you can, you have a grip on.

Like I can grasp what it takes to get on a stage, the amount of time of study, the amount of time of meditation and prayer and worship that it takes to be able to get on a stage and lead God's people. But I think you come to a place and there's just, some things I just can't really share in detail yet, but where God is like, like I had an email come through the other day that just scared me

to where I literally told Kenny, yeah, I'm not doing that. You know, I'm honored that they will call me, but I'm not. But no. That place is almost like, and I don't want to use this word, but it's what's coming up where you're comfortable. I'm comfortable in this space. You know, God, you can use me, and we always say this, use me for your glory until it makes me uncomfortable.

And it makes me visit that place where, in 2006, where the Lord said to me, you have four months to move to Atlanta. I had nothing in Atlanta. I was comfortable doing ministry with my dad and I could have easily said, hey, I'm gonna stay here. I know what the people want at this church. I know the vibe of this church.

But God was like, in four months, I'm moving you here. I know what the people want at this church I know the vibe with this church, but God was like in four months I'm moving you to Atlanta because there is more and it was foggy for me I didn't know what was gonna happen where I was gonna land It just so happens that the day that I moved to Atlanta was the first day of the dreams in the Church of Atlanta I was the only person born that day William Murphy was like who are you cuz you got to be somebody, only one person joined today. And he literally took me on the road with him for seven years to teach me everything that he knew.

He was like, I want you to take the meat, spit out the bones. But had I not said yes to uncomfortability, then I would have, who knows what could have happened and where I would be right now. So I think right now, surrender looks like saying yes to uncomfortable experiences,

where you could easily say, you know, financially we're good, you know, children are good, our marriage is good, you know, I'm great where we're located in South Carolina, we're good, but instead God is like, you know, I want to make you uncomfortable again. Cause when you're uncomfortable, then you're leaning in on faith. So that's what surrender looks like to me.

There's a song that we're working on for conference and the moment that I heard the lyrics come together I was like, that's it, that's the song and it's about another surrender. And I feel like that is like the misnomer about surrender that we forget is like we are willing to surrender like this time. And then there's like this moment, this epiphany where you're like, you know what, this is going to require another surrender, like, we hang on, we keep pushing, we're comfortable, you know what I mean? And then we realize like the only way to next, the only way, and I want to qualify next

because I think a lot of times in gospel messaging, when we start talking about next, we see it as like going higher and higher, getting more and more. And I feel like next is a deeper revelation of who God is, like a deeper revelation of who God knows you are. And when your life's journey is to continue pursuing what there is to know about God

and what God knows about you, there's always a next. And that next never happens without surrender. And surrender is not always surrendering, you know, your hopes and your dreams. Sometimes surrender is your comfort. And surrendering, you know, your hopes and your dreams. Sometimes surrender is your comfort. And surrendering our comfort. That's the one. That is the one.

I can let go of a dream. I can let go of a dream, you know what I mean? Because the dream's not even there yet. Like the dream wasn't living nowhere but in my head anyway. But when you asked me to surrender this comfort, this present comfort, this present sense of safety and covering, cause oh man, I'm just talking to myself at this point,

but I just feel like where I am right now was once new and the newness of it made me realize that it was God's covering and protection. But once you are in God's covering and protection for a certain amount of time, it becomes normal, it becomes comfortable. And then it's not that God's provision no longer exists in that place,

but when he calls you to next, you have to relinquish what has become comfort, but we forget that what's now comfort was once a stretch. And we're tired. Yeah, I was about to say, did you have to say that? Did you have to say that? We're tired. We're tired.

Guys, this is really us right now. This for real. So we just talk ourselves into uncomfortable spaces. I'm so sick of it. I'm so sick of it. I'm so over this. Did you have to say that? Because I'm like, now I need to go pull that email back up.

It's just because there's something that God wants you to know about him, about you, that is connected to this. It's not even about the outcome. It's not even about the opportunity. It's about what you need to understand about God. I thought when I was going on the tour, I was like, oh my gosh, this is about getting this book in as many hands as possible. This is about me sharing this message. Like I thought

that that was about like now the tour is over. I recognize that tour was about me trusting God in foreign places, trusting God in these interviews, trusting God and like the different tour process, like to trust that you work wherever God sends you. And it's going to be awkward for you, but known to him. I hate it. I hate it. And there's probably so many people listening to us right now thinking, you know, that stuff happens like so easily. It's an easy yes. No.

He prides it out of my hand every time. He prides it out of my hand. Please no. So if you're in that place, just go ahead and say yes. Just go ahead and say yes. You know, cry a little bit, scream, kick a little bit. Yeah. Do it. But do it. And do it like you agree with it. You know what I mean? Do it like you agree with it. You know what I mean? Because you trust God so much that you're going to submit to this foreign,

uncomfortable, awkward thing as if it was your idea. Because I just trust God that much that I'm going to throw all of myself into it. Yeah. Yeah. Don't try and protect yourself. We live as witnesses that even with that, God is not afraid of our humanity.

And I think a lot of times church history has kind of taught us, don't question God. God is like, hey, I'm cool with you saying I'm shaking and my knees are shaking as long as you do it. And I've seen every single time, he never fails. Like he never fails. Like he never fails. Okay, so let's go deeper. Because why are we talking about don't question God and Jesus is on the cross time out why has thou forsaken me? Is it possible that in our lack of questioning

God that we grow distant from him, not recognizing that if we were to bring our questions to him that we could create an opportunity for intimacy But when we take our questions and say I can't present them to God It's not like the question goes away. It just creates a distance No, no different than in a relationship where you want to say something to your partner, but you decide not to say it Like you you take a little bit of your heart back and maybe God can handle our questions bit of your heart back and maybe God can handle our questions. Maybe he wants to answer them. Maybe he wants to comfort us. Maybe he can't fully give us the answer because we don't understand it just as happens with parents and children. But maybe he can still say, trust me, even though I

can't give you the answer, you got to know I still want good for you. You got to know that I'm still going to be with you no matter what. Like I just don't know that we can afford to tell people don't question God when we have quite literally a savior on the cross who knew God better than any of us who said, why has thou forsaken me? I got a question. I'm preaching on Sunday. It could be thy will. Would you please let this cup pass?

Like, I'm like, is there any way we cannot do this? And if not. And if not. Okay, because some of us be like, can you get somebody else to do it, but not willing to also be like, but if not, I will stand 10 toes down and what, cause I definitely have a like, Lord,

is there anybody else? But then also, if you can't find anybody, if you call everybody and nobody picks up the phone, everybody got their phone on, do not disturb. If you ring through twice on mine, I'll be ready to go. Listen, that's what Jesus demonstrated. That's what he did. For sure. And that's the kind of Jesus I love. That's so good. That's so good.

Okay. So let me see. Well, tell us, I guess, what, to the extent that you can, I would ask you, like, what things do you have coming up? But you know, like you can say that, but like, I'm going to ask you something deeper and better for my last question. What lesson is God teaching you right now about

faithfulness? About faithfulness. There's a scripture that I lean into often that says that God rewards the faithful. And where it kind of takes me mentally is we are new pastors. So I'll kind of lean into that. And there are just ebbs and flows, which you know, you know, you have seasons where it's like, oh, this is going great. And then study is like, what does that mean? And I kind of revisit the years of faithfulness

that Kenny and I have sown into other ministries, into other people, into our family. And I just kind of like what I just said, he's never failed. Like as long as I'm faithful and committed to what he has called me to do, he has always come through in mind blowing ways. Not even ways that I thought that I could think, you know, oh, this is how he's going to do it, or this is how God's going to come.

I know what he's going to, you never, you know, you know, he's going to come through, but the way that he does it is always mind blowing, even though you know he's coming. And so I believe my place of faithfulness right now is rooted in the hope that I have from God's consistency throughout my life. So you can't really, it's going to take a whole lot for my faith to be shaken. I've gone through so much from when it came to, and I'm very open about this testimony about us losing the baby. And I'm literally standing on a stage singing songs about God's faithfulness and how much

I love him and how I adore and worship him. And in my heart, I'm questioning everything that I'm saying. To make it through that season and live now, looking at my baby boy and looking at the strength of our family, your faith grows through seasons of God's faithfulness, and it makes me want to be much more faithful, even when I can't see it. Kenny and I have this slogan, and I've mentioned it a few times,

where we just like, hey, in this season, we're gonna have to trust God in the fog. It's foggy, we can't see it, but we know what we heard. And so that's where I kind of lean in, even now with our churches four years old. It's growing tremendously. It's a big, big baby, but it's like, hey, you know, we still stumbling like a baby. You know, you're still tripping over things like a baby.

And because of God's faithfulness, it's pushing me towards being much more faithful in this season. So I think the faithfulness that I'm leaning in towards, it comes from my history with Jesus that has never ever failed me. And that's my encouragement too. I really, really sense that in my spirit that somebody needs to hear that. Go back sometimes in the history of our lives, when you find in scripture, they will always build altars. You know, I think we need to get back to building altars where we there's this space where I can go back and say, you know, God was faithful

then, he's gonna be faithful now. And so build an altar. The next time God comes through, don't leave that space without stopping, because I used to be that person too, where God comes through and I'm on to the next. I'm just, you know, just never stop. Sometimes we just need to stop and examine the space. Like, wow, God, you did that. And I heard a building altar right here.

So when I come to another season that challenges me, where it's challenging my faithfulness, I can go back and say, well, in 2024, this is what God did. That's so good. That's so good. Thank you for sharing that. Thank you for your time, friends. Thank you, friend.

I love you. I love you, girl. Thank you for all that you do for all of us. Oh, please. Thank you for your yes when you're uncomfortable. I tell you this all the time, but I'm telling you probably when you're uncomfortable, and I think I've seen it a little bit more than most, but I've always seen you get up,

put your glam on, do it. And not, you don't just do it. You do it pretty. You do it. We do it with grace. And it's just so much for all of us to glean from. So thank you for that. And thank you for your friendship. Thank you for being somebody I can get on the phone and text and say, girl, this is what I feel right now. And I

could just be real with you. This last year, God has really watered the seeds of our friendship. And I've been really grateful for that. It came at a time that I really needed it. So thank you. You paved the way for me. So it's easy to learn into that. I love you. I love you too. I told you all that this was going to be just one of those conversations that made you feel

like a warm hug. Like it just wrapped you up. I hope I was right. Send me a note. Let me know how you felt listening to this episode. I want to hear your feedback. What can I tell you? I love doing this podcast with you all. I love having

conversations with women about how their lives have changed, evolved, and what they've learned about God in the midst of it all. I pray that this podcast is blessing you as much as it is blessing me. I am so excited about what God's going to do September 26th through 28th when we get together at Globe Life Field. She's gonna be leading worship and I'm just gonna fall out in the floor. What I love about Tasha is that she's got an intergenerational, multicultural sound.

And I know it's gonna be a blessing to what God wants to do in that atmosphere. I am surrendering, just God have your way. I feel my Holy Ghost rising whenever I think about it and I feel joy and breakthrough and love and I pray you're gonna be in the room. Listen I will be back next week with more conversations with people who I believe are going to be an encouragement team. Maybe I need to do a solo episode though. Is it about time for a solo episode? We

could talk about some things. Last week felt like a solo episode though. Is it about time for a solo episode? We could talk about some things. Last week felt like a solo episode because y'all had me in my feelings, but we'll see what happens when I get back from vacation. I love you all. I pray that the grace of God is with you everywhere you go, that you feel his love, his presence, his direction, his wisdom.

I pray that you would awaken yourself to what God knows about you, that you would abandon thoughts of disbelief, abandon seeds that have been planted that have made you feel inadequate or empty. And I just pray for a fresh outpouring of the Holy Spirit over you and everything you touch. In Jesus' name I pray, amen.

He's off. and everything you touch. In lives of women history has forgotten. Who doesn't love a sports story? The rivalries, the feats of strength and stamina. But these tales go beyond the podium. There's the teen table tennis champ, the ice skater who earned a medal and a medical degree, and the sprinter fighting for Aboriginal rights. Listen to a manica on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hey y'all, Dr. Joy here. I invite you to join me every Wednesday on the Therapy for Black Girls podcast, a weekly chat about mental health and personal development, where my expert guest and I discuss the unique

challenges and triumphs faced by Black women through the lens of self-care, pop culture, and building the best version of you. So if you're looking for more ways to incorporate wellness into your life, listen to the Therapy for Black Girls podcast on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast.