Woman Evolve with Sarah Jakes Roberts - Woman Evolve Replay: Bet on Yourself w/ Tamron Hall

Episode Date: November 27, 2024

One thing for certain and two things for sure —today’s guest wouldn’t change nothing for her journey now! The powerhouse known as Tamron Hall links up with SJR, and tells listeners how a job loss propelled her into making the bold move of betting on herself and becoming a nationally syndicated talk show host. But can you imagine holding a position of authority and being diminished because you’re a woman? While sharing how power shows up in her home life, Tamron spills tea on the greatest love story ever told! Trust, you’ll want to hear it. But Sis, when will you start owning what you want, by speaking it into the world? They say closed mouths don’t get fed, so open your mouth! Learn more about the “Watch Where They Hide” book tour at TamronHall.tv    See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Being alone does not mean that I have to experience loneliness. I just gave my fear of change more power than my fear of things staying the same. People would say to me, Sarah, oh, she's so courageous. And I said, I wish it was courage. It was not, you know. I'd say, you know, fight or flight. Because I'm not a runner. I'm not a runner. Welcome back. Welcome back. This is another episode of the woman evolve podcast.

How are you doing? Let me tell you something. Last week's episode was unhinged. I am hinged today. I'm a little bit hinged, not fully hinged, but I'm trying to be hinged today. The last week's episode was a blast. So many of you all came to listen to the podcast for the first time from that social media clip in which we talked about twerk gait. I want to be clear because I went

through the comments and I'm going to turn my phone off because I am a professional. I went through the comments and I want you to know that I was not concerned about being canceled for what I said about twerking. I was concerned because I am, you know, some people when they think pastor and they hear the word twerk, they say the two shall never meet and yet there they were meeting. And in addition to that, I wasn't necessarily saying, you know, don't check on things. I was saying, you know, check on things with discretion, wisdom. And these aren't the types of conversations that we have often.

And so I think that I was feeling a little bit nervous just about having that conversation, knowing that it would be outside of my control, what soundbites happen to it. But all in all, I think we were, you know, mostly on the same page. I hope that I helped my good sister out. I really do think that what she was asking is basically, how do I still continue to show up, enjoy life, be a good person, follow Jesus and pursue righteousness and not feel like somebody's grandmother? And I hope we gave her some tools.

If you are like her and you're wondering how you do that, go back and listen to last somebody's grandmother. And I hope we gave her some tools. If you are like her and you're wondering how you do that, go back and listen to last week's episode, but get connected with the woman evolve community. There are so many different types of women who are on a similar journey to who you are. Some more advanced, maybe some a little bit behind, but all of us with the same goal. You may be wondering what's the best way to get plugged in.

You can download the Women Evolve app. On the Women Evolve app, we're having conversations about all of the things. There are different groups. So if you are climbing the corporate ladder and trying to maintain your faith, there's a group for that. If you're single and trying to figure out how do I find a life that continues to be rewarding and fruitful outside of partnership, We've got one for that. We've got one for moms and parenting, divorced women, grieving women.

Whatever it is that you're facing, we've tried to have a group that will meet you where you are, fitness girlies. If that doesn't work, just get into the major group chat. I'm sure there's a woman out there who can identify or at least make you feel less alone. So thank you guys for all of the comments and the laughs connected to last week's episode. How are you doing? How's your week going so far? I am, you know, I'm on the struggle bus. Some of you may be wondering like, how did everything go with the message?

Oh my gosh, God gave me something to say hanging hanging on to that scripture about Jesus always causing us to triumph and leaving the fragrance of Him wherever we go. Really just, it came through for me because I have to tell you, I don't know that I have preached three times in one week ever. If I have, it has not been in a long time. But Thursday night, I preached a message. It was very powerful. It was called Finish Strong.

I am hoping that we can put it on YouTube soon, but I spoke about intersectionality and then its root word being intersection and how many of us live in intersections that we can't control and are also called to intersections that we have said yes to and how difficult and challenging it can be to navigate those intersections, but inviting God into them how we do that. It was beautiful. I love it. I was so grateful God gave me something. Today was a long weekend, a lot of warfare, a lot of things that felt just like an attack. I got sick out of nowhere. Usually when I get sick, my kids bring home germs from school and then I get sick. I get sick

out of nowhere. They were completely healthy. It was the Wednesday before I was supposed to preach. I'm still kind of dealing with some congestion, but I really feel like it was just the devil doing what the devil does. So, but all in all, I've got some press this week. I'm traveling and I'm just taking it easy. The rest in my mind.

Resurrection Sunday is coming up. I'm looking taking it easy. The rest in my mind, Resurrection Sunday is coming up. I'm looking forward to that. I'm gonna tag team preach with my husband and my father. That'll be fun, interesting, a first time. And yeah, we'll see how that goes. I talked about what I do, like what I have to do, but as a person, I'm tired, I'm grateful. I need rest, I'm nervous with my book coming out.

I have to tell you, as a black woman author, you know, there has been a perspective in publishing circles that it can be challenging to figure out exactly what black readers want to digest and who they want to hear it from. And so there's not always a lot of value in the black audience. And so as a woman who has a predominantly black following,

I've had to advocate for us hearing from our people and for the work that I believe God has given me. And I'm also having to keep it in front of people because at the end of the day, they're looking at the data, they're looking at the conversion. I'm so grateful for this book, Power Moves. I believe that it applies to any person no matter where you are in your life. Recognizing that Power Moves is not just about what we do outside of us, but how we allow power to move in us

and through us. And then what happens outside of us is just the natural byproduct of that. And I'm really grateful for the message and I want to get it in as many hands as possible. And so trying to make sure I keep it in front of people's hands. I hate asking people for things, right? And so there's a part of me that's like, can y'all please buy this book? It's going to change your life, please. God gave it to me.

I believe it's richly going to bless you, but also feeling shy about saying that and putting myself out there is always a struggle. So y'all pray for me, please, please get the book. And not just for the reasons I listed, but because I think it's essential to us understanding how we balance these ever-changing headlines, responsibilities, hopes, dreams, and fears that are in front of us in a place that really anchors us and allows us to experience wisdom.

You guys check out the book. It's going to bless you. You can get it wherever books are sold. It comes out officially April 30th, but pre-orders are really important because it says to the publisher, it says to the stores, like, hey, this is a book that matters. We want to make sure that we have it in stock.

And so they gauge that based off of the demand. So if I've done anything to help you, if I've preached a message or said anything that made you feel less alone, you've trusted me with the season in your life, I'm asking you to just pray about it, ask God if you feel less alone. You've trusted me with the season in your life. I'm asking you to just pray about it. Ask God if you feel like this message is something that's for you. I prayed while writing it, and I know that it'll bless you.

So you guys check it out. So, yeah, nervous, all of those things, working hard, trying to be creative and innovative, authentic, stay true to myself and, you know, make sure I don't have boogers in my nose. Let's get into the Mind Your Business question. You just minded mine, I want to mind yours. If you would like for me to mind your business, send your questions to podcast at womanevolve.com. I would love to help you navigate what is happening in your world to the extent that I can.

I may not be able to say anything, but girl, that sucks. I'm praying for you. But if I can say a little bit better, a little bit more than that, something a little bit better than that, I will be glad to help you. This message, I'm not exactly sure if she wants us to say her name, so I will leave it out. It says, you out here knowing better, but not doing better. Hi, Pastor Sarah. I hope this message finds you well.

The quote above is something I heard from you in one of your podcasts and it's really speaking to me at this point of my life. I need help. I'm hurting in so many ways and I'm struggling to let go of the things and persons I know are contributing to me feeling like this. I feel emotionally drained and motivated and I know I'm not pushing myself enough to achieve my goals. I'm ready to surrender and live a happier life.

Looking forward to your response and speaking with you if you are able. Thanks in advance for your time. Man, who cannot relate to this inward frustration of I feel like I can do better than this. I know that I can do better than this, but I don't know how to do better than this. Part of my argument about Eve is just because you know better, it really doesn't mean that you do better. There are so many of us who have known better,

but still found ourselves not doing better. Does that mean there's something wrong with us? Are we dumb? Are we stupid? Are we lazy? Like these are all legitimate questions that I asked myself when I was having these similar emotions. What I know now that I didn't know then

is that it's not that you're not pushing yourself hard enough to do something, it's that you haven't yet accepted that you're not going to do anything until you're comfortable with who you are in your being. And if you cannot trust who you are in your being, then you will never trust what you do. In order to come to a place where you trust who you are in your being, you have to be willing to do those hard things. You have to be willing to make those decisions about the friendships About the choices that you're making with your body with your food with your time with your decisions You have to be willing to be someone for yourself before you can become anyone for anyone else

And so you said that I'm hurting in so many ways and I'm struggling to let go of the things and persons I know are contributing to me feeling like this. So I want you to do an exercise if you can relate to this. I want you to fill in the blank. I want you to say to me, I feel or say to yourself rather, I believe that blank is more powerful than blank. So when you tell me that I am allowing things in persons to contribute to the feeling like this, I would feel this in if I can give an example of me being in a toxic relationship. I would say that I believe that I am allowing the fear of being alone to be more powerful

than me discovering who I am on my own. We have to get down to truth. You can say to yourself, I don't mind being alone. I can be powerful by myself like you can say whatever you want to to yourself But we got to get down to truth if we get down to truth and we can get to change without truth There can be no change And so if you are allowing people or things to contribute to you feeling inwardly frustrated We have to figure out what power they have that is more powerful than who you believe you can become.

This month we're talking about becoming powerful in God. If we're going to become powerful in God, we have to see what we're allowing to have more power than God. I believe that the history of our friendship is more powerful than what it is right now. So maybe right now it's not much of nothing, but because of what it is, I'm allowing that power to have more power than me seeing what it is right now. I want you to identify whatever that truth is and then I want you to connect that with what you want to believe.

I want to believe that being alone does not mean that I have to experience loneliness. I want to believe that letting go of smoking is not more powerful than me figuring out who I am and God. I want to believe that I can have a clear mind. I want to believe I used to smoke weed all the time and I used to smoke weed all of the time because at the end of the day, I got so high, I did not have to feel anything at all. And there was something about being numb, about like floating in the clouds that just made me feel like, oh my gosh, this is so much better than sitting in my real life.

People say you can't be addicted to weed. Maybe I was just addicted to that feeling that you for a feeling. But there came a time in my life where I was like, I don't want to have to be high to survive my life. I want a life that doesn't have to feel like I need to survive it. And so I had to sit in the pain and the discomfort of what was happening in my life that made me want to escape it. And when I began to do that, I realized that like I had more power to change my life than I was giving myself credit for. Like God had already given me the power.

When God gave me a vision of what my life should look like, regardless of the fact that I didn't agree with that vision, like I had power. And when your power, your belief, your faith aligns with God's power, belief, and faith, then the Holy Spirit will lead you into how do I walk into that. And so I stopped smoking and I started sitting. You know, I started thinking about like what type of mother do I want to be? What type of woman do I want to be? What type of food choices do I want to make? What do I want my relationship with God to look like?

And I began making decisions in that direction. And no, it wasn't perfect 24 seven. And yes, I had moments where I fell back as well, but there was something about making a decision to move in the direction of God's vision for my life that made me feel more confident in who I was and when you become more confident in who you are you are then able to do the things that are only connected to that empowered version of you. Sometimes we want an empowered vision but we aren't

empowered people and until we can become an empowered person we cannot lay hold of an empowered vision. It's going to take power for you to manifest who God has called you to be in the earth. It's going to take power. When Jesus calls the disciples and he says, hello, I, he didn't just say, I want you to go cast out demons and go heal the sick. And I want you to raise the dead and preach and call people to repentance. He said, I am giving you power to do it.

I didn't just give you the vision. I have to give you the power to make the vision possible. That power has to be in you. It has to be a part of you. It cannot just happen because of something that's taking place outside of you. So you need power in you. When power is in you, then power can move through you

and then power can move for you. How do I get power in me? You have to see what has more power over you right now when you see what has more power over you you get to reclaim that power fear you don't get to have it shame you don't get to have it addiction you don't get to have it loneliness you don't get to have it I'm taking that power back and I'm throwing that power in the direction of who God says I am in order for my spirit to look like God's spirit. I am going to need the Holy Spirit, Jesus, angel, prayers, boundaries, discipline.

I'm going to need all of these things to move in the direction of that. But when I do, I become an empowered person who is confident enough to say, I can trust myself, I can recover, I can forgive myself, I can pick up the pieces and move in the direction of God's vision for my life. That is confidence that allows us to become a force. That is what this book is about. And so I don't want to say your name, I'm gonna say your name. I hope that this helps you. I need you to surrender to becoming not doing. I need you to make decisions for yourself that will allow you to become who God has

always known. And real quick, I want to read you just a little excerpt from my book that I think will really help you. Although I just basically gave you the whole breakdown. So it says, I want you to begin analyzing the ways that you unknowingly relinquish power on small levels. It's easy to think about the big areas that we want to change, but what about the small drains in our lives?

The actions and assumptions that poke holes and make way for slow leaks. I have felt powerless before in saving money, losing weight, participating in functions that I did not want to attend condoning offensive behavior or allowing someone to blatantly lie in an effort to keep the peace. I'd tell myself that I was incapable of controlling the scenario, but that was never true. I just gave my fear of change scenario, but that was never true. I just gave my fear of change more power than my fear of things staying the same. If you're going to become powerful in God, you are going

to have to come to a place where your fear of change is not more powerful than your fear of things staying the same. I hope that helps you evolve. You may remember when I was having a conversation with my friend Jason Boland and Cindy Brown. And we were talking about what does it mean when a woman is powerful? Do powerful women really recognize how powerful they are? And if they do know they're powerful, does it come off as arrogant?

This is a question that I have pondered and especially as it relates to becoming powerful in God. I mentioned to you last week that after I spoke twice in like three days that I was feeling like a little confident. I was like, Lord, don't let me be proud or arrogant. And then I found that scripture about always triumphing in Christ. And it gave me a lot of peace in my soul

because there has to be, how can I say this? There has to be a moment in which we decide that I will no longer punish myself with insecurity or low self-esteem. Let's let that marinate for a minute. There has to come a moment when you are willing to say to yourself, I no longer have to punish myself with low self-esteem or insecurities because of what I see, what I did, who I was. When we truly believe that because we have given our lives to Jesus and that we are living a life that seeks to channel God in all that we do, that seeks to acknowledge how much growth we have yet to accomplish, but also how assured we are of that being possible, there has to come

a moment where we begin to say to ourselves, I will no longer punish myself by playing small, playing little, demeaning myself, diminishing my contribution because I am who God says I am. And I can't say that I am there 24-7, but there was something powerful about the scripture reminding me that I can be triumphant in God. I'm allowed to be confident in what God is doing in my life and how God is showing up, how I am creating space for that to happen, how my obedience is paving away. This is not entitlement. This is not arrogance.

This is acknowledgement that Christ's power is working through me. And I recognize that we have this treasure in earthen vessels, he could use anyone else. And yet he's using me and I'm honored by that. I'm humbled by that and I can own that. And I am hopeful that I will get to a place where that becomes second nature to me and that you will too.

I was in conversation with Tamron Hall and she is one of those women who I believe make power look easy. You may know her from her amazing syndicated daytime talk show, which has earned her two daytime Emmy awards. She was formerly a national news correspondent for NBC News, a daytime anchor for MSNBC, host of the MSNBC Live

with Tamron Hall, and a co-host of Today's Take, the third hour of today. She hosts Deadline Crime on Investigation Discovery Channel, but she has recently taken daytime television by storm in September of 2019. Her daytime talk show debuted. she is a Texas girl. She's from, I want to say, I think she said Luling, Luling, Texas, Luling, Texas girls help me out.

But then she moved to the DFW area and she's got a lot of the same stomping grounds that I am very well familiar with. In this conversation though, I was just, I was struck by her confidence, by her poise, by her humility. We talk about finding love, even though you're a powerful woman, owning your voice when it comes to advocating for your gifts, your talents, your ideas, and environments and settings where that may not always be easy.

I think you're going to be completely and utterly blown away by this conversation. Check it out. So this is a little intimidating because you are that girl. Oh my, are you kidding me? You're amazing. And thank you for coming on before.

I'm excited. Thank you. I really appreciate it. I wanted to talk a little bit about your journey. This month at WOMEN EVOLVE, we're talking about surrendering to becoming powerful, which with it being Women's History Month and we recognize just how difficult it can be for women to create spaces where their voices and ideas are taken seriously and then even propelled into places maybe where they never thought they would be.

And certainly there wasn't any space reserved for them. I cannot think of someone better to talk to than you as you are not just, first of all, you're a Texas girl, which we love a girl. What you know about those Texas girls? What you know about us Texas girls? What you know about us? Tell us about us. But I'm curious just to know a little bit about your journey and the systems that you've had to navigate to get to a place to where you are now where most people would think,

you know, you're one of the most powerful voices in television and you are being so intentional about the conversations you're having. But this was a journey. So can we talk a little bit about your journey? Of course. And you know, it's still a journey. I'll be very honest with you. Last night around 2 a.m. I found myself just sobbing.

I had a very frustrating conversation with someone who I felt really intentionally, to be honest with you, attempted to diminish me, attempted to make me somehow feel like the name of the show was like a rental sign. Like I rent the name Tamron Hall, that I'm not Tamron Hall. And it was very fascinating because I'm not Tamron Hall and it's very fascinating Because I'm executive producer and creator of the show and so often I find myself

Needing not feeling like needing to say to people I am not just a person who walks on camera and says Feed me my lines. I'm not an actress I I'm wholly like you wholly invested in anything that we do because we recognize the impact of our voice, of the power we project, and what our names mean. And so I was on this call without going into too much detail, but it happened earlier in the day, like six o'clock. And then all of a sudden, I woke up, I was crying and I was so frustrated wondering, you know, when does it

When does it stop being so hard, right? When do you have to stop? demanding or commanding people to understand you and your power and your worth and that it is not a what they call it's not a flex and that it is not a, what do they call it? It's not a flex. It's your power. And I laughed at some point in the midst of my tears and said, you know, I think that's the battle of a woman. That's the battle of a black woman. Doesn't get easier, I don't believe,

you learn to deal with it, not suppress it, right? It doesn't mean push it down and just soldier through, but I think you learn tools and mechanisms to allow yourself to soar versus letting it hold you down. You allow yourself to be surrounded by people who will empower your voice and make you feel heard and collaborate, right? I am, there is nothing better for me, Sarah,

than getting on the phone with my friends. And we literally collaborate on how I'm going to win and how they're going to win. We laugh. You know, it is. It's so joyful to sit on, especially friends. I've had the same best friend who's in Fort Worth since I was four years old. And she is the reason that I'm in TV because she was the first person ever beat me running. I ran track. I ran at Poly High School. I ran track my whole life. Summer track. I was the reason that I'm in TV because she was the first person to ever beat me running. I ran track. I ran at Poly High School. I ran track my whole life. Summer track. I was the kid that you see the big group in the 9,000 degree Texas heat going through

the Olympics. That was me. And then when my best friend, once we were in high school, beat me, it was a wake up call. I was like, okay, I'm not as fast as I think I am. And that was a big pivot, right? At 17, realizing that this dream of being in the Olympics and all of these things that I thought would happen, I knew I was going to be Kari Richardson. She was born. I knew. Because I was Flojo and then I was going to be her. So that dream was, as they say, deferred.

And it led me to really hunkering down on journalism and recognizing this gift I believe I have communicating with people and allowing them to feel safe to talk about their journeys, just as you have with me on the show. So I think going all the way back, I mean, I was born in Luling, Texas, this teeny tiny town right outside of Lockhart

in the Hill Country. My grandfather was a sharecropper who couldn't read. He signed his name with an X and I grew up hearing that story of this very proud man who raised his children after his wife passed away. My mom was 10 when her mom passed away. He raised his children with great pride and great confidence, but couldn't read.

I mean, imagine that. He's signing his name with an X, and I make my living with words. And my mom, who was a 19-year-old single mom, who went to Paul Quinn and found herself returning home after her first year to tell her father that she was expecting a child and what that would look like and what that meant for her,

but still soldiering through and moving to Dallas, Fort Worth, saying, you know, the opportunities aren't here in Luling. Let me go and let me bet on myself. So, so much of my journey, honestly, has included moments like that, women, especially my aunts and folks around me who poured in that bet on yourself mentality. And I think whether it was when I was in local news to Chicago, to the Today Show, MSNBC, to where I am now, I wear that bet on yourself, on my sleep.

And it's my superpower. I think it's so interesting that we know you for your voice, we know you for the way that you show up in our homes, and yet behind the scenes, you're still having to exercise the power of your voice. No matter how powerful it is on screen or in our homes, you're still having to introduce and reintroduce who you are in some of those spaces where conversations are being had. I am curious, do you remember one of the first times where you had to make a decision to

say like, I'm not going to conform. I'm not going to just go with the flow for the opportunity. Like I'm going to say something even if this means resistance or that I become like someone that's considered a problem because I have found that I'm writing that well, it's written now but there's a book that I've written called Power Moves, and I'm trying to debunk this idea that power just shows up in one expression all of the time. That there are still moments

where you have to exercise a different type of power and still trust that that's power in that moment. And when I hear you speaking up for yourself, you demanding that your ideas be honored in these spaces. It's making me wonder, did you have to take a chance on doing that? Did you have to bet on yourself in doing that? Oh, yeah. I think sometimes I wish, for example, when I left the Today Show and made the decision

that what they were offering wasn't enough, people would say to me, Sarah, oh, she's so courageous. I said, I wish it was courage. It was not, you know, it was not. I'm a big back against the wall, right? I make my strongest moves when I feel that I don't have any other option but to run forward, right? I am not a, I'm not risk adverse to controversy or conflict,

but it's not my nature. But, but when it is time, I was raised to, I talk a lot about over time, I believe I have great perspective now at 53. Priorities are different than perspectives. I had my perspectives in my 20s and my priorities rather, and my priorities probably were the club. And 30s, my priorities were something else, and maybe this or that.

So now in my 50s, I don't look so much at priorities as I do perspective. And for me, I had great perspective after losing that job about value. Who are you if there's nothing beneath your name? If it's just Sarah Jakes Roberts, what does that sound like? What does that feel like? And I found myself, going back to the core of the question, the thing that came to mind when you posed that question

for me, Sarah, was when I cut my hair. I remember cutting my hair very, very short and people saying, you're not gonna be an anchor. There's no way, because back back then in the 90s, the anchors weren't wearing their hair short like this. I was an outlier and it was all but as short to me. I would not be getting a job in TV. Wow.

I kept my hair short and it wasn't an act of rebellion. It was, I like my hair short. In fact, to be honest with you, my boyfriend at the time loved Anita Baker and I loved him. act of rebellion, it was I like my hair short. In fact, to be honest with you, my boyfriend at the time loved Anita Baker, and I loved him. So I figured, let me look like Anita Baker, and this is the win here.

But over time, when I started to interview at TV stations, that was like the, oh, what's going on with your hair? Why is your hair so short? And that was me claiming my power in this small way. It then turned into me feeling that I would not be controlled to look like everyone else. I wasn't going to have to assimilate to get this job. My hard work and my determination would pay off. Going back to that whole bossy, complicated, difficult, that's when it started.

It's suddenly like, well, how dare she not take our advice? And then it turned into me speaking up in the newsroom. I mean, I wrote my crime novel, Watch Where They Hide, and there's a scene with this character, Jordan Manning, who's inspired by my life, where she said, when you are a black woman in the office, everyone thinks they're your boss, even when you are the boss. Wow. And so that came from real experiences or speaking up to my news director at the time

in Dallas, there was a description of a suspect and they said five, four black man, you know, dark hoodie. And I said, this could be anybody. Yeah. This isn't responsible. And they said, five, four black man, dark hoodie. And I said, this could be anybody. This isn't responsible. And he said to me, well, that's what the police gave us. And feeling so powerless. But then saying, well, I'm not going to read it.

And I pour a little of that in that character, Jordan Manning, because I did want people who see my career to see a little bit of what happened. They asked me, are you ready to write a memoir? I was like, too soon. It's like Dave Chappelle said they asked him to go on, what was it, Dancing with the Stars? And he was like, too soon. I mean, the memoir, I'm like, too soon, too soon.

But I was ready to create this character that showed you little glimpses of being a black woman, one of one many times in the newsroom, one of one in a press conference, yelling out my question. And it was, you know, it's kind of surreal, but I, I find my boldest moves when I, when I, I find my boldest moves when I say, fight or flight, because I'm not a runner. I'm not a runner. Me too. I really don't enjoy that about myself. I know that I am fight or flight.

I wish I could run, but there is something that happens where I'm like, if we're in it, we're in it, let's go. I am. I'm the same way. I am the, I tell my friends, I am that 2 a.m. let's drive by my youth. I'm wired that way. I am not a runner, but it takes, I give a lot of chances, even going back to the beginning of our conversation when I was saying I was in tears, I gave that conversation multiple, I gave that person multiple times to get that conversation right.

Yeah. Because I didn't, to your point, I didn't want to have to respond in the way I felt. I was left no choice. Yeah. Can I ask you, so we see your power in your career, in the way that staying true to that authenticity has paved the way for us to experience different versions of your gifts and talents. How do you feel like your power is different in your more private personal life without going into detail?

Because I know you're very- No, no, I understand. My husband and I, we have a, I feel a great balance, right? I think that he knows who he married and I know who I married, right? And he knows that if I come home and there's about two more Amazon boxes empty, I'm gonna go crazy. But he also knows I root in a way for the people I love that I hope they know. I am, in fact, I just told someone the other day about my son who's going through something

and I felt that he was not, even at age four, he's a multiracial, he's a black child and he's a black boy. I felt that he was not being treated fairly in the situation and I had to quite honestly remind someone that I'm a mama bear wrapped in a little lion. And I'm going to protect, I'm a fierce protector. So in my home life, Steven is really big on date nights. I'm not a big date night person. I actually hate date nights because I think it's contrived.

I'm a Virgo. I'm like, what are you planning? My husband's a Virgo. God bless you all. We're Virgo. I'm like, what are you planning? My husband's a Virgo. God bless you all. We're Virgo. You already know what he's dealing with. I feel like in my home, it's not about power. It's about understanding. My power is the way I love and the way I love when I'm mad, the way I love when I'm sad. Those are the things that are important in our dynamic in our home.

My husband, you know, my husband's a five foot five Jewish manager. When he first hit on me, I thought he was trying to represent me. I'm like, wait a minute now. You know? And it took time for me to realize he was trying to hit on me.

But one of the things that worked so beautifully was the unexpected nature of it. And I just lost my job and there was a, the first time I'd been unemployed ever in my life, since I worked, I was 14, I worked at Toys R Us and Hearst Ulysses Bedford, right in Fort Worth. You better. Yes.

And so I've never not worked. I was out of a job and in that, that loss of what I thought meant so much, I actually gained, again, going back to that word of perspective of what I wanted. And I wanted consistency, not just in my family and my friends, but in my partner. And I wanted a child.

And we set off on this crazy IVF journey and ended up with this little kid named Moses who's awesome. But in our home life, you know, my power is the way I can love. Yeah. Was it hard for you as someone who was driven, someone who's always worked to, I don't even like, cause I was a single mother when I met my husband, I bought my own home. Like I was very established and I wasn't like, I don't need a man, but like I didn't need one. Like I had the option of wanting one, you know?

And then when it was time for me to get married, I realized in order for this marriage to work, you're going to have to feel like you need, like this is something you really want. I love that question, Sarah, because why I wasn't I'm like you I'm like, I don't need but true story. I was on the fence about this situation I'm like, you know, we kind of moved in what well we moved in together Three weeks almost four weeks after our first date. No life. Really? Oh wait, what? Yeah, no, here's why here's why here's why here so we went out on a date. No, wait, what? No, here's why. Here's why. Here's why. So we went out on a date. He said pizza. I was like, great. And, and I've never told anybody this was true. I was,

I had cramps, really bad cramps. I was like, I'm canceling this date. I am dying. Give me my doll. Go away. Right. So he was like, no, well, let's walk. You know, you got to get up and go. And I'm like, ah. So I have like no, in other relationships, maybe I have more pretense. But I was thinking, I don't even know this dude and he doesn't really, you know, whatever. And so we walked and it was just a beautiful walk to this Italian restaurant in my neighborhood in Tribeca. We walked back.

It was just very comfortable. And I was like, this could be something, but then greatest story ever. My home had an elevator that opened up into the apartment, right? It's one of those like New York style apartments. I go in the elevator to get ready to go to my dermatologist and the elevator stops. It has never stopped. I'm by myself because there were only eight units in my building and the elevator stops. It has never stopped. I'm by myself because there were only eight units in my building and the elevator won't open.

And I'm pushing the like, help me button. We don't have a doorman. I mean, it's true when those Tribeca lofty things. And I call him and I was like, I am trapped in this elevator and he was at his office. And he was like, I'm on my way. And I was like, I just can't call 911 and let somebody know.

And the reception was terrible. And all of a sudden, in a record lightning period time, the elevator door starts being pulled open. And I'm like, stop, I'm gonna die, I'm gonna die. And he goes, give me your hand. And I had, wait for it, a sax bag with me. I'm like, wait a minute, my bad. And he pulls me out of this elevator.

True story. And he will tell you that I was like, wait, my bag! And I was like, maybe I do need this. You know what I mean? Maybe I do need this. And that's why, you know, with this character, Jordan Manning, in my crime novel, it was important that I put in that love. I didn't want it just to be a thriller or a mystery. I wanted that romantic side or that desire. You know, the character,

Jordan Manning, is in her 30s, right? Her career is going well, and she's climbing the ladder. She has her passion, and she's driven to solve this mystery of this woman who's missing, but she wants that consistency. She wants that person who can pull that elevator open and reach in, because I think we all do. I say on my show all the time, I tell people, I grew up around very strong women who often would say, well, I can do bad by myself, or you can do bad by yourself,

and I understand that toughening that you need. I do get it, and I know where it comes from. And I'm happy my mom was that way, as an independent single mom, and having to bet on herself in this way, and not wanting me to fall into some of the traps of financial dependency and things that can happen when you're riding so hard that they're your train,

they're your car, they're your car, they're your caboose, they're everything. But I tell my friends all the time, I'm like, you know what, if you want to be in a relationship, it's okay to say that. I told my cousin, Kimmy, I was like, you better get on one of these dating sites, one of the refugee buildings, and get out there. Tell anybody you know, hey, I am interesting. I am looking.

And I encourage that, not because I'm married now, I wish somebody had told me that before. Like, don't just be open to it, say that's what you want. And that's powerful. It is because it's owning what you want. And I think in a world where women are often told what they want or told what they should be happy to get, to be in a space where you can own what you want and you can put it out into the world and not trying to

separate yourself from it so you aren't disappointed. I think that's an incredible gift. And I was actually saying even outside of maybe relationship, like to own the fact that you want to rest, to own the fact that you want to go out and get something to eat. Like we're always shrinking and diminishing our meals and pretending like, oh no, I'm very easy to work with. I go with the flow. Sometimes I am the flow.

And the flow is to do something different today. Listen, I'll tell you, I love that you said that because when I first started this show, I had to make some big changes. Editorially, I needed to make some big changes with staffing that I knew were necessary to make the show better. And we didn't get to five seasons by chance, right? When I launched this show, people told me every single

show that was canceled, that was hosted by people way more famous. To basically, you know, remind me that we didn't have a chance. And so I had to make very bold, decisive moves. And I remember my mother calling me after reading some article one day that there just was a horrible person, it was a bloodbath, she fired everybody, which wasn't true.

But my mother called me and she was crying. And she said, this is not who you are, it's making me so mad. Why is it as a black woman, you're making these decisions as a woman and when men change producers and change people all the time, no one says anything. And I said, you're right, but you know what? I can take it because I had gone through enough that I was prepared for that. And that's why I went on my social media and I was like,

hey, tan fam, let me tell you what's really happening here. Let me tell you, because we would not be here had I not said, let me continue to pursue a better version of the show. I had one mission in mind to make the audience proud, to make everyone feel welcome, to have real conversations, and to make you feel like this is where I want to watch the Tamron Hall show. I was like, oh, is that all? Let me just leave it on. No, I want Tamron Hall show to be on.

And that took some decisive things. So to your point, I like by the second, first half, we were in a global pandemic. I am in my home, 250 employees are depending on me to figure out how to get this show going. So I was the flow. Yeah, right, right. And I said to myself, people tell you to be proud of yourself, and then you're proud of yourself. And it's like, oh, she's arrogant, or she's this,

or she's that, or he's this, or he's that. They assign these things while at the same time literally reading books on how to build confidence. Yeah, right, right, right. And it's like, wait's like, wait, what? So, you know, I have embraced the fact that being the boss doesn't mean cruelty, it doesn't mean, you know, I have all the answers, but I have to have some confidence in the direction. I feel like I'm being mentored and I'm just letting people listen in on it

because I'm 35. I started WOMEN Evolve and it looks a lot different than what traditional ministry has looked like. One thing I knew for sure, God, if you were going to drag me into this, because I'd rather be introverted, I'd rather be behind the scenes, but something happened when I spoke to women, something happened when I preached a sermon. And I was like, Lord, if you're going to drag me into this,

I'm going to do it authentically. And maybe it'll work and maybe it won't, but I do not want to fail at pretending. I will fail at being me all day long. Like I don't mind if I don't work for you, but I cannot twist and contort myself to become someone that is more palatable so that you can say, I didn't like her anyway. If I'm going down, I'm going down as myself. And that, to me, authenticity is your superpower. If you can stand ten toes down for you, even when you're wrong, apologizing,

like it's not arrogance, but I'm going to stick beside me and I'm going to run on and see what the end going to be as it relates to me and this partnership with God. And that is all I can hang on to because if I don't, people are going to put things in my hand that I don't even know if I'm called to carry. Like I don't know if I'm called to carry this. I love that you said it because again, going back to the day that I found out I was not

going back to the Today Show, I went into deep prayer. And people ask me, you know, well, were you mad? There was such a calm. When I tell you, I'm like, I said to the individuals, I have a picture of me and my mom. I have a dress in that closet that belongs to me. I want the picture of my mom and my dress by this time. Bop, bop, bop. And that wasn't me being arrogant. It was me saying, I'm at peace with this because I have spoken with God.

I have gone into this closet and I have emerged at peace with this. So the next day I donated all my clothes. I wanted to just, it was like a baptism in so many ways. I was like, I'm good. And I started to construct this idea of this conversation and who I would have on and what we would talk about and all of this. And so when it comes time to, you know, you have the ingredients, right, you think you want. Now you're gonna build the recipe, and now you're gonna say, I need a little more stuff,

but I didn't think I needed extra, and then someone will have the audacity to tell you, no. Wait a minute, I sold this show. I went into rooms with people who didn't even want me in there, but had to take the meeting. I started this show with Harvey Weinstein. Three months in, he is getting ready to go to trial on rape allegations, and now you want me

to shrink myself down? That is not on the recipe list. I'm not shopping in the grocery store for that level of humility. I am going to stand as you said ten toes down Yeah, and move in and so you know I happen to have a heavier voice It's so funny because my voice we were looking at some old tapes of me back that much light I have a heavier voice and you know people would well her tone and I'm like I'm literally saying hi guys, you know You know every sentence that I would start I'm like, I'm literally saying, hi guys, you know, and you know, every sentence that I would start,

I would be like, hey, you know, and then if I went in professional, oh, too harsh, because you need me to song and dance to make you feel okay. That's not the job. You know, we are in a global pandemic. I have to make decisive business decisions. I was an anchor and a reporter turned business woman

because this is a business. And I needed to make business decisions. And if it required me to come in and do a damsel and distress routine, that was not on the menu. I'm not serving that up. And to your point, I'd rather fail being true to myself. And of course, as I said, nobody's right all the time. I don't pretend to be. I love collaborating. I am a big, you know, we do table reads for our show. We get the

scripts together and I sit in our reading. I enjoy, I think it's because I ran track and I love that communal energy of things. And I love when people can get around and talk and say, oh I like that and everybody got run out of the room crying because it's I always tell people it's not this is a team right we're together I'm never going to hurt you my joy when I retire from this will be to being you know somewhere retired and watching a TV show and seeing the names of the people who worked on my show a lot of my kids are like in their 20s and 30s. I want to see executive producer. I'm like, I know that. They worked

on my show on the PA. I love that. I fight hard. I am competitive. I'm not going to apologize for that. I am not going to shrink down. And I'm not, Michelle Obama said when people say angry black woman, that says more about you than it does about me. I'm not going to carry that. Yeah. I wonder if they, you know, because there's this idea that women are hard to work with, especially women of color can be hard to work with. And like, are we hard to work with or do we just take up space?

And because you're so, it's not as common as taking up space that when we take up space, it stands out. Because I do think- I think it's easy. I think it's just an easy thing to say. Honestly, I addressed it on my show right after that incident. I told you there was some article that said she was difficult and it was after Gabrielle Union had been attacked because she was difficult, allegedly.

And I said on my air, does this get old ever? Like, is this, I mean, like, you guys have to come up with a new script if you want to get us out of the room. And to your point, that doesn't just relate to black women or women of color, that's women. I mean, every day there's a woman in an office where, case in point, my husband and I were talking about someone and an individual, this lawyer referred to her as difficult.

And I said, what makes her difficult? And he couldn't answer because he knew where I was going. I said, it's a pivot, it's a trope, it's an easy way to say you were uncomfortable because that person likely called you into be accountable. So now I am difficult or I am too tough. And I think with women, and this is one of the things that I know I'm sure you have experienced this, every woman I think in some capacity, where you not only, it's like you're the nurturer,

you are the, you know, I have to do things, you know, there are men who manage and someone wouldn't dare come in and say, I just couldn't do it today because I forgot. Right. Wait, what? You forgot? You know, and I, you know, but I'm so lucky to have five seasons.

I think my team more than ever recognized that I root for them, but going back to what you're saying about the difficult, I just think it's an easy layup. It's been accepted through society for so long that if you say she's difficult to a room of a hundred people, you're probably gonna win 50 without even asking why. But now that you have more women in the rooms, more women who are leaders, that 100 people hopefully will be half women

and they have all been called that, so you've lost half the audience, right? And so that's what I think. I think having, I have a female executive producer, co-executive producer, director, and I'm sure they've all been called difficult. My PR team, I'm surrounded by women like yourself who are uplifters, and that's what I call us. We are uplifters. And that

comes with sometimes that label. And I'm okay, to your point, I'm okay in that space. Okay, I have one more question to ask you, then I will reluctantly let you go. And I do mean reluctantly. You've got to come on the show in person. You've got to come on. I would love that. I would love that. But I'm going to take advantage of the fact that I have you now.

What is the most powerful lesson God has taught you about forgiveness? Wow. My biological father not being in my life and being raised by my stepfather who was the father that God meant for me to have and allowing his journey to be his journey journey and forgiving him for not being what I hoped he could be or my mother hoped he could be, but also recognizing I don't have to try to make up that time. So we don't have a big relationship at all, honestly, but that doesn't mean I don't forgive him because he too, like my mother was a kid. And if we are the total sum of even our worst experiences, we're not, none of us are.

And so I can't hold him hostage to a mistake as I would not want my son to hold me hostage to any mistake. Man, there's nothing like parenting to make your soul a little bit more gentle to those who parented you. I have so much perspective for my parents now. And now I'm raising a 14-year-old girl. Woo!

Good luck! Good luck! You don't know how I said it. Thank you. Thank you for your time, for your heart, for your offering to the world, for your leadership. Even those of us who are not in the day to day of what you're doing are being led by your yes. And I just want you to know that it is it's affecting us greatly and helping us to move forward in our destinies wherever they are. So thank you so much.

Thank you. I just love you to death and I hope to see you soon. Thank you. I am just sitting here wondering if you felt the very same thing that I felt in having this conversation with her. If you are curious about where you can learn more about her, she's on all of the social medias and she's on your local television

or maybe an app that carries live TV, I'm telling you, I really experienced a blessing. I told my husband that I was blown away in a way that just made me feel like I was meeting a mentor that I didn't even know that I needed. Just so you know, the book that she mentioned where she's talking about the character Jordan Manning is one that you will absolutely enjoy. You guys know, if you're a part of the woman evolved book club that I am a fan of the books and her new book is called Watch Where They Hide.

It's by Tamron Hall. Of course, it is a part of a series. It is an edge of your seat thriller. I love just how much diversity she is showing in her expression as a news anchor that's totally different than what it takes to be a daytime television host, which is totally different than what it takes to be an author, a wife, a mother. It sounds like Tamron Hall has discovered why and how power moves. Okay, so this latest book is one you don't

want to miss. Make sure you can get it anywhere books are sold Amazon Barnes Noble Target Target, Walmart, Bookshop, Books in Million. Let's support what this queen has going on. And I hope you guys, okay, wait. So listen, okay. Last week I said, let's rescue Kate. And I think that, you know, at this point we got to even double down. Not that we are rescuing her from conspiracy theories, but we are rescuing

her from us being in her business. I felt so much shame. The word is shame that I joined into a conversation about something I had absolutely no business in, but was caught up in the talks and wondering where she was, devastated to hear that she is facing cancer, recognizing how challenging that must be for her as a wife, a mother, and then a public figure. I can only imagine how difficult the public scrutiny was. And so certainly sending prayers and much apologies, not that she listened to the Womany Ball podcast, but you know,

just in case, you know, just I learned my lesson, a valuable lesson, sending prayers for her and anyone else who is battling this terrible, terrible disease and just remembering how much victory we have when we are able to fight it with faith, with love, with hope, with compassion and empathy. So certainly sending all of those things your way. I did get a rescue, an authorized rescue, and that someone has allowed me to mind their business. And it is pretty simple. It says, I've been married for over 20 years and we have had our share of ups and downs,

trust and believe, and we both have our traumas that have shown up in our mayors. I get that and I understand how it's all connected, but Hubby doesn't get it. We have been to therapy together and I have done individual therapy, but Hubby hasn't and he definitely needs it. His childhood trauma involves absent parents, childhood rape, and childhood molestation.

I am the only person that's confided in about these things and when it happens, I never have my therapy. I don't know, I am not a therapist, but I always want to try because he refuses to go to individual therapy and he's too much of a man to ever tell anyone outside of me about his experiences as a child, especially the sexual abuse. I literally may go back to grad school to get a degree in family therapy just to therapy

my husband. Just by the way, I be thinking about this all the time. Not to therapy my husband, which by the way she put in quotation marks, but because I am just so intrigued by the human experience and how it shapes us. Anyways, back to her letter. in quotation marks, but because I am just so intrigued by the human experience and how it shapes us. Anyways, back to her letter, it says, prayer is also a huge part of our life and journey. I pray for my hubby's healing every day, twice a day. Do I just leave it in God's hands?

Okay. I've heard people say that one spouse is not responsible for the other spouse's healing journey. What are your thoughts on that? Because at the end of the day, we are one and our traumas will affect the other. Three questions. Do you agree or disagree with one spouse is not will affect the other. So three questions. Do you agree or disagree with one spouse is not responsible for the other spouse's healing journey?

Do you think that someone who is broken can have healthy and successful relationships? Do I just leave this healing in God's hands? Thank you so much for taking the time to rescue me. Okay, mama, listen, I know this is like mind your business slash rescue me, but you know, sometimes we out here trying to rescue the wives who are doing the therapy work with partners who are not yet in that space, and that can be really difficult. So to answer your questions in sequence, do I agree or disagree with one spouse is not responsible for the other spouse's healing journey?

I do agree. It is not your responsibility to heal the other spouse. It is not your responsibility to make sure that they heal, but I believe that you can inspire their healing journey by pursuing your own, by being a soft space for them to land, by sharing what you're learning about your own trauma and creating space where it is normalized in the context of your relationship. Do I think that someone who is broken can have healthy and successful relationships? Do I think that someone... I think that we're all broken in some way.

And I think defining what healthy and successful relationships look like in the context of us navigating our various places of brokenness is something that two couples have to be willing to wrestle with. I think that for us, we have defined our healthy and successful relationship, not necessarily with it being contingent on either of us being whole 24-7, but rather us taking seriously the moments where our brokenness appears and doing the work to make sure that we are aware of how our brokenness shows up and pursuing health and counsel on the best way to navigate the reality of that brokenness in the context of our relationships.

What healing do we need? What boundaries do we need? What perspectives do we need to avail ourselves to in order for that to work? And do I just leave this healing in God's hand? Absolutely. Pray for Him, pray with Him, pray about Him, pray over Him, pray under Him, pray around Him. I certainly think that you should pray about His healing and what it means for you to be

married to Him in this state. I think the question that we have to be willing to ask ourselves over and over again is like, God, if nothing at all changes, who would I need to become in order to stay in this situation? Who would I need to become? And how does that person align with how you see me? And if it doesn't align, then God helped me to inspire an environment for him and for me that best aligns

with your vision for our life. And that is no tall order. So we're sending you a floaty, because baby, that's some real rescuing. But, he is more than able. Somebody has missed me singing. If you're new to this podcast, you haven't missed me.

If you're old school to this podcast, you haven't missed me singing. He is more than able. Play worship music in the house. Just have on random podcasts of men who went to therapy black men or child what if he ain't black men who went to therapy and then you know learn things like just Create a space where it's normalized. I'm praying for you friends

I'm praying for all of us as we dare to become powerful in God in whatever context that looks like and so Holy Spirit I just asked that you would fall on our hearts, that you would transform our minds, that you would heal our past and lead us in the direction of our future. God, I pray for every person on the other side of this prayer that they would come to experience your truth, your path, your plan, your ways, and that it would be so undeniably intriguing that they decide it's

worth living for, worth obeying for, worth hurting for, worth saying goodbye and stepping away from things that don't serve them for. There is no greater gift than to be in partnership with you and the earth. And so God, I thank you for Jesus. Thank you for making him who had no sin. All of our sins, all of our weaknesses, all of our limitations, you placed them in his body and nailed it to the cross.

And when he was raised up, free free and victorious we were raised up too with the ability to become powerful in you and I thank you God that we are yet tapping into that power and releasing it into the world help us to keep digging in Jesus name amen more incredible interviews coming up. I've been in my bag. Can't wait to show you what I found. Talk to you next week.