Wonderful! - Wonderful! 371: If They Look At You, It's Love

Episode Date: April 23, 2025

Rachel's favorite way of looking forward to classes! Griffin's favorite liminal character!Music: “Money Won’t Pay” by bo en and Augustus – https://open.spotify.com/album/7n6zRzTrGPIHt0kRvmWoyaNational Immigration Project: https://nipnlg.org/

Hi, this is Rachel McElroy. Hi, this is Griffin McElroy. And this is wonderful. Thank you so much for joining us today. We hope that you are having a good one and staying clean and- Closing out this April month with- Closing out strong.

Excitement for the summer months to come. But you better watch out for those May showers is how the saying goes. Yeah, as of 2023, April showers have been pushed to May. Yeah, so May showers. And then May flowers are now in June. Those are in June. Fourth of July is in August now.

The name of the thing hasn't fucking changed. This is a podcast where we talk about things we like that's were good, that's were good, that are good, that we are into. I mean, it's a lovely afternoon here in our nation's capital. I feel like we're doing a morning show all of a sudden. It does feel like-

Is it because I'm holding a cup of coffee? I also have a cup of coffee. I feel like we are having like just a little sesh right now. I got a small wonder if you don't mind me. Oh, go for it. You're sitting right next to it. Gang office update.

And this is a big one. This one's not just like, oh, he got a new thing that's in his office. This is more of a lifestyle change, I guess. This is more of a sort of change to my identity and who I am as a person. I'm kind of a plants guy now. Griffin has been talking about plants.

I feel like whether you knew it or not, you were dropping hints the past few months because you tried to go to a place where they sell plants with our youngest son and he was not patient enough to allow you to buy a plant. And then you did a stream with Travis for Max Fun Drive and expressed your jealousy. That's too many plants.

Don't get me wrong, that's too many plants. I mean, that's a lot of plants. I don't want that many plants. I just wanted a nice plant. And now I just got this beautiful money tree that my wife got me. But anyway. It's gorgeous. Griffin had a birthday recently.

Yeah, dad. 38 big ones. Got a. Two to go. And then? And then, who knows? Yeah, so I got a big old plant and nice pot, and it's hopefully will be relatively easy to care for.

Travis gave me some tips, I guess he unsurprisingly has. Probably has one of these. Probably nine of these, I'm guessing. But yeah, it's nice to just have this little green guy. I've got sort of a green vibe going in the office. And so like a little arbor, a little natural arbor is really doing it for me. I tried to do the little like bluish pot to match your-

Oh baby, you crushed it. Your color matching is fantastic. Sound pants. And you know, it's forced me to keep my window shade open more so the plant can get direct, like a little bit of direct sunlight. Yeah, and you can get some direct sunlight. And I can get some direct sunlight.

This plant's paying off big dividends. So yeah, I'm sort of like a real like fucking Fern Gully dude now. So like, that's different. Be ready for that. Do you have any small wonders, babe? I mean, we got back from our big spring break trip to Disney World.

Yes, we took our children to Disney World. And they're still of an age where they do not have a lot of stamina for the parks. No, they do not. I would say it was a really good trip. Yeah, it was fantastic. It was, I mean, the weather, just gorgeous. But we do kinda, our process, I think,

is maybe a little stressful in that we know that the kids aren't gonna make it past lunchtime, they're gonna get really, really tired and ornery, and so we have about three to four hours every day to try and get done everything we wanna get done in each park. Yeah, I was talking to Griffin because I always feel like there's stuff we don't get to do,

and like, should we stay longer? And then I realized, we don't need another day, we just need like two more hours. Two more hours in some of the parks and we could really, really knock it out. But even to get them through lunchtime is a struggle. Yeah, but great trip, got the big son to ride Tron, he tried some new stuff, little son tried some new stuff,

that's always the most exciting thing for me. He did the rise of the resistance ride, the small son did it with that big drop and everything and he loved it. And I just, man, I love when our kids go on new sort of next level of intensity rides. Yeah, because you and I, we talk about how we were kind of like notorious scaredy-cats for a long time.

Totally terrified, yeah. And it wasn't until I was, I mean, even older than Henry, that I would go, well, here's the thing though, roller coasters in our day were just big outdoor, like wooden or crazy. Oh, for sure. It wasn't like this indoor, like climate controlled experience. My fears were largely centered around the Son of Beast,

which was only open for, I think a few months before it hurt too many people to survive, to remain open. Oh, is that the shirt I got you, right? Or did I get you the Beast? You got me a Diamondback, Diamondback versus the Beast. The Beast, yeah.

The Beast will fuck you up too, don't get me wrong, but I do think- So what was Son of Beast? So the Beast was the world's largest, fastest wooden roller coaster for a while, and then it got surpassed, and Paramount Kings Island was like, no way, we're bringing it back, the crown.

So they built an even bigger, even faster, more gnarly roller coaster called Son of Beast. I think it had like inversions and stuff which you don't traditionally see in wooden roller coasters. But it was a wooden roller coaster and it would just absolutely shake the bones out of you. And so I went on it, I think once or twice, and then they closed it

because it genuinely was hurting people. Yeah, I had rules for a long time because I share what Henry still has, which is like, I can see everything and it looks scary. And so for a long time I had this rule about like, well, I'll go on roller coasters, but I won't go on ones that go upside down. Same dude, yeah. And then I like graduated to upside down,

and then it was like everything else was. Everything else, yeah, once you're past that. Yeah, I mean, that's everything. For me, it was the Outer Limits Flight of Fear, which was an indoor roller coaster, which in the grand sort of McElroy tradition, my dad and brothers were like, it's indoors, how crazy could it be?

And the answer is fucking psychotic. That thing is a nonstop, just like whoop, whoop, whoop. I feel like they still, like your brother Justin still did that with Guardians. Yeah. Where like the first time Henry was gonna ride it, he tried to sell it as this like, oh yeah, no, it's fine. It's in Dorse, who cares?

You go first this week. What have you got? Okay, so this is maybe gonna make you a little uncomfortable, but. Oh God, but. Oh God, babe. But I feel like it's a real thing that I really like that I've never talked about, which is having a crush.

Okay. Do you think I was gonna air out some private matters? I mean, I thought you were gonna get raunchy, yeah. Yeah, I mean, no, I don't intend for this to get raunchy. Okay, having a crush, huh? Uh-huh. This is really sort of unabashedly sort of embracing the fact that sometimes on this show,

we talk about things that are from the past. I mean, I still definitely have a crush on you. This is the thing, right? It was not. But a crush to me suggests like a new found sort of like. Here's the thing though, like some of the feeling, this is gonna be probably pretty lame for some people, but some of the feelings that I still have for you feel that.

You know? I like that. Like I was watching your stream today and you were just like, I don't know, I was just into it. I just felt like I had a crush on you again. That's wonderful, that's so nice to hear. But I was also like, and Griffin and I have talked about this before, we were both like people that were really motivated

by crushes. Yeah. Which is, I mean, not unusual. No, I mean, I have to assume it's the norm. I knew people who, and obviously like, you know, before I had any idea of like what a romantic or a sexual kind of like identities or preferences were when I was like a very young child.

I knew people that like weren't motivated by that stuff and I was like, then what do you spend your whole day doing? I know, yeah, it was the reason I would look forward to like particular classes or, you know, like if I was going to a party, it was all about this is the time when I get to interact with this person and then I can build a whole narrative around that.

Wonderful, wonderful story of our love, yeah. And a lot of that is the actual chemical experience. And I've talked about chemistry before on this show, but this whole release of dopamine, which is, it motivates you and you feel that kind of rush. And I think, I mean, for me, and I talked about this a little bit with my therapist,

this idea of when you are somebody that maybe has low levels traditionally of dopamine and then you can get that like that surge from like having a crush. Like it can really kind of keep you going. Oh yeah, that makes sense. And also like Griffin and I too, like when we first started dating,

I mean it was just like incredible. Like it was just very easy. Nothing was complicated, Everything was fun. And we... And we... Bragg much? And I think neither of us really realized that we might have underlying mental health concerns

that we needed to address until things got very hard and we had a child. Yeah, but in this specific instance, recognizing the existence of the mental health concerns does not abate them in any way. So let's just vibe. You know what I mean? Like that was very much the thing.

Like yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, I get it, I get it. But let's just, let's get while the getting's good. But I really feel like that rush of like the early relationship really kind of masked and like disguised some things that we eventually had to address. Yeah, sure. Which kind of just speaks to the power of like the-

Of love. The oxytocin and the dopamine and all that like powerful stuff that you feel when you have a crush. Um, and oxytocin also in general is like something that helps you like relax and, and, and I've talked about this before. Um, I mean, these are really powerful drugs in your system. Um, but I also wanted to talk about what the internet said is 12 signs somebody has a crush. I love where this is going. Sometimes with these types of segments, I never know what your research is gonna look like.

And so this'll be exciting for me. Obviously, there are a lot of sources of information. Yeah, but- Including WikiHow, which I decided not to go to. I appreciate that. I went to Bustle, cause that is a website that I have heard of and read other things on. Sure.

And so I felt like, okay, well maybe there's something there. Now, granted, a lot of this is like, you know, sources from like different users who commented with their own responses. You don't have to cite your sources on this one. Number one, they always want to be near you. Yeah.

I mean, sure, yeah. I mean, to come back to the, like, you would look forward to certain classes at school, which like when you're a person who doesn't look forward to anything about school, that is a welcome change. Yeah. That is a nice change. Yeah, for sure. And just the idea of trying to sit next to somebody,

if you're in a big group gathering, you try and scoot in there. Another one, they look at you. So sorry, hold on. Eye contact. To know if your crush is into you, is that the thing? Like if they look at- Signs, signs that somebody has a crush. Signs that someone has a crush on you, they look at you.

They look at you. The syntax of that, like it switched sort of perspectives from I think first to like third, and that was, or second to third. And so that confused me a little bit. This was a thing though with Griffin, I was never really sure you had a crush on me before we started dating.

I slow played it. Until after we got together and I kind of realized your energy. Yeah. And that you are, you're not somebody that's like up in somebody's business typically. You know, you're not somebody that's like up in somebody's business typically, you know, you're not somebody that's like,

I'm gonna ask you a lot of questions about you and what you do and what you're into. Well, that makes me sound like a bad person. Well, no, I don't think that's true. I'm just saying there were times when we were hanging out where I noticed that you were only asking me questions. Yeah, sure. Which looking back now, I realized was a pretty good sign.

Yeah. They laugh at everything you say. That's not it. That's never been true for us, I feel like. No, I mean. I'm not somebody who gets particularly nervous or like giddy around a crush. Like I try and keep it pretty cool.

I think that's the norm. I feel like anyone who says the alternative maybe hasn't ever had a reciprocal crush situation because pretty much in my early, you know, my minor league careers, it was like trying to be too cool for school, right? Like trying to impress. And I guess there's different dynamics

for different people. Yeah, I mean, I heard from a lot of my friends that they weren't comfortable talking to their crush. Like they had nothing to say and didn't know how to make conversation, which was never my issue. But I know it's common for a lot of people of being like too nervous around somebody.

I'm not gonna read all of these. Another one, they show you lots of love on social media. This is how we got started. Yeah, I sent you a pretty innocuous Facebook birthday message and you're like, he loves me. And then I'll just say the last one, they communicate non-verbally with you,

which is one of my favorites. Let's try that now. Don't make a face. He's doing a lot of mouth work. That's technically not verbal. Anyway, it's something I was thinking about recently because I mean, what is nice about what you do is that I get to see you like be impressive in front of other people, which is like a good reminder

of like how worthy of a crush you are. And then, you know, and then like sometimes occasionally we will do things with friends. And I always feel like, oh, he's- I do love doing things with friends with you. He's like so funny and fun to be around and- I'm extremely flattered. Anyway.

And uncomfortable. You did get that right. Yeah, I got there. I knew that I would. But I is a nice kind of uncomfortable. Okay. Hey. That's a loud wink. I bet the microphone picked that up.

It's nonverbal, it's not for them. Can I steal you away? Yes. I fucking love that you talked about basically having a crush on me for your segment. And I'm going to talk about fucking Donkey Kong. I had a feeling. Sorry, let me be very clear with my words here. I'm going to talk about the character Donkey Kong. Yeah, let me be very clear with my words here. I'm gonna talk about the character Donkey Kong. Yeah, yeah, let's take the verb out of it.

Yeah, I noticed you were wearing your Funky Kong shirt when I got home. Yes, I don't own a lot of novelty graphic tees. I do consider that more my brother's sort of department. 100%. I did see an ad for a funky Kong t-shirt that I'd purchased impulsively. When, can you tell me what time of day you saw this ad?

Was this during the day? It was night. Okay. Okay. Now I can. There may have been a certain. Some influences, some outside influences. I mean, that is the Justin McElroy story for sure.

Yeah, for sure. Anytime I go to his house and I see something unique and I ask him, he's like, oh, I saw it on TikTok. Yeah, I did. I was struggling to come up with a topic and then I saw the shirt in the mirror and I was like, it is Funky Kong. I don't know that he can carry a whole segment by himself,

but his brother, nephew, I don't know. I mean, the Kongs are notoriously strong. So if they can carry anything, it's probably a 10 minute segment. I would say that that is reductive. I think Donkey Kong is really maybe the, well, no, there's Junior Kong, I think, is the one from DKC3, and he was pretty tough.

And I mean, Diddy, is Diddy a little? Diddy's not strong. He can lift a barrel though, right? Yeah, I guess that is strong. I couldn't lift a barrel over my head. Yeah, that's a good point, babe. Donkey Kong has always kind of like occupied this weird liminal space in the Nintendo kind of roster

where he is, he's always been sort of the other option for like if Mario's not available for a thing, it's like we'll get Donkey Kong in there instead, but he's rarely kind of like, at least these days, chances for him to be the star of the show are kind of few and far between. What do you mean if Mario's not available? Well, I mean, they don't make a ton of Mario platformers,

and so like, when Nintendo's like, man, we haven't put out a first party game in a long time, let's slap a fucking Donkey Kong out there. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. Tied people over a little bit. Yeah, well, and the Donkey Kong universe is pretty like our own, right? Wow, babe, speak on that.

Well, I haven't seen a lot of the Kong family's work, but it seems like they are always in like a kind of, you know, jungle or island environment, you know? Whereas Mario, you kind of have to create like a whole ecosystem. You know, because like there's pipes and clouds and you know, it's different. I love you so much.

In Donkey Kong Country, you dive into the ocean and ride around on a swordfish's back. It's like there's not- The ocean though. See, this is what I'm trying to say. Like the landscape. It's like there's not- The ocean though. See, this is what I'm trying to say. Like the landscape. There's no magic. You're saying that the chances for magic,

there's no rainbow road. Yeah, like Donkey Kong never goes through the sky, right? Yeah. Yeah, Donkey Kong doesn't eat a flower and shoot fire out of himself. I'm just saying, if you're sitting down and designing the next Donkey Kong game, you're like, I don't know,

should he be like on the beach or like in a tree? Yeah. You know, like you've got kind of a set parameter. Yeah, I mean, it does look like they're abandoning some of that with the new Donkey Kong game, but we'll get to that. Oh yeah, yeah. Donkey Kong, obviously, despite this weird space

that it occupies for Nintendo, where they will go a long time without referencing this gentleman and then release a couple games here or there for him. Despite that, Donkey Kong was obviously huge for Nintendo in helping it kind of survive the big video game crash of the early 80s. It was this huge hit in arcades and on consoles. They made a few of them and the series did fairly well.

Also introduced, of course, us to Mario, or Jumpman, as he was called, in the original Donkey Kong version. A very fun fact about Donkey Kong is that the original game, Donkey Kong, where you climb up the construction site to get to Donkey Kong and Princess Pauline. Actually, I think it's just Pauline at the top.

Originally, it was conceptualized by Shigeru Miyamoto as a Popeye game where you would be Popeye and Pluto would be up there with olive oil, but I guess they couldn't get the license to make a Popeye game, Great Work Popeye, in cementing your cultural legacy with that decision. And so instead they came up with a new set of characters. Shigeru Miyamoto picked a gorilla

because he found it to be like a strong burly character, but not repulsive or grotesque, sort of occupying the same space as a King Kong. I have never asked or heard the answer to this question. Sure. Why Donkey Kong? So- Kong is, I mean, I can trace that.

Sure, of course. The sort of like wrong answer that was kind of the, I don't know, the solution that some people kind of made up out of whole cloth is that it was a sort of messed up transliteration of Monkey Kong, which is not it. Originally, Nintendo came up with 20 names for this ape. I do have some of them, but the Kong part is obvious.

All of these other names have Kong in them. But Donkey was chosen because, I mean, it implies stubbornness, and Miyamoto thought it was funny. He thought it was a funny name and it sounded funny. And of the 20 names pitched, Nintendo of America was like, this is not gonna work here. Donkey Kong is not gonna work here. People aren't going to immediately assume

this is a stubborn, it's gonna be weird and it's not gonna work. And Nintendo aren't going to immediately assume this is a stubborn, it's gonna be weird and it's not gonna work. And Nintendo of America doesn't hold much creative power. And so Nintendo of Japan and Miyamoto were like, we're gonna just go with Donkey Kong. Other names though included Kong Holiday, which I think is a pretty cool name.

Whoa, that is cool. Funky Kong, which would later of course become his own sort of entity. I'm glad they didn't waste that one. And Kong Dong, which I obviously really like is Kong Dong because of a penile sort of reference, I think is very cool. So they made a few of these Donkey Kong games.

Donkey Kong 3 didn't do very well, kind of tanked, and so they put Donkey Kong aside for a while until this British game developer called Rare, who had made some pretty successful NES games, got a license to make SNES games, the Super Nintendo. And they had spent all the money they'd made on all the games that they had made on this really advanced 3D rendering machines.

And they were originally sort of planning like, we'll skip this generation, we'll do Nintendo 64 games and we're really gonna just like go all in on that. But then they realized, hey, we can take these 3D images and make 2D sprites out of them. And that's why Donkey Kong Country looks the way that it does. It was the first game to feature pre-rendered sort of 3D to 2D kind of sprites,

and that is why the game looks, I mean, if you look at any other Super Nintendo game, like nothing else on it. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Not only that, like not only is it visually stunning, but it felt different. They weren't trying to ape Mario, right? Like every other, not every other, there's a few, eh?

There are a few other examples of like Super Nintendo platformers that can stand up on their own, like I'm thinking of Aladdin, for instance. But most platformers just felt shitty. They felt like shitty cheap knockoffs of Mario and Donkey Kong Country kind of sidesteps that by feeling completely different. Donkey Kong Country kind of sidesteps that by feeling

completely different. Donkey Kong is pretty slow and pretty heavy. He has a lot of kind of weight to him until you start doing like a little forwards roll which has like this quick kind of acrobatic movement. So now you're like building this like technique where you can move in different ways. Also at any time you could switch to Diddy Kong who feels also different, like which is weird. And I didn't really recognize until we did Six Thumbs, One Heart with Donkey Kong Country. It's like Diddy Kong feels pretty different from Donkey Kong. So depending on which one you're playing as,

like the way you go through a level might be different. And then once you start playing co-op with two players, each controlling their own monkey sort of interns, like that's great. That's really brilliant. And it was so game changing because, you know, you could play two player Super Mario World, but you would have to wait for the other player to die

and go through the level select screen and all that jazz all over again. That's something I didn't think about, you know, one, because I didn't play a lot of Nintendo games, but also like I didn't play Smash Brothers until I met you. And I really thought the characters were like, just pick whatever design you like.

And you're like, no, they have different attributes and features and Donkey Kong is heavy. Donkey Kong is a heavy boy, yeah. I mean, that was true in Smash Brothers, obviously, but it's also true in like Mario Kart, right? They made three Donkey Kong country games on the SNES. They all rule, they're all hard as nails. Really, really tough games, but feels really good

when you do well in them. And had a sort of vibe all of their own and it became this huge smash hit. And then they made Donkey Kong 64, which sucked shit. And so then Donkey Kong didn't really get his own thing for a long time. You have like, they're punishing Donkey Kong. Like, they try a game, it doesn't succeed,

and they blame him. Yeah, I mean, kinda. Like if this had been Mario, it would have been great. Everyone would have loved it. I mean, there have been some sub-par Mario games, but they've always given the plumber a second shot. After Donkey Kong 64, they were like, well, clearly people don't like Donkey Kong.

And it's like, no, there are some other reasons. They did a few other kind of like Donkey Kong country like revivals here and there, but for the most part, he's been kinda shelved until this new game that they just announced for the Switch 2, which is called Bonanza, and it looks really fun. And I think the world is on the verge of catching Donkey Kong fever.

But specifically the SNES era of the three, the Donkey Kong Country trilogy were so good, and were so memorable, and really launched Rare, the company that made it, to this level of big dogs, like second party developers in the sort of global landscape of games development, which they've slipped from time to time. But I like Donkey Kong.

I think he's an interesting character. I enjoyed Seth Rogen's interpretation of him in the Super Mario Brothers movie. I thought that that was a fun way to capture the spirit of that particular character. I don't even remember. Yeah, and I mean, it's not like the best play. It's not a long appearance or is it a long appearance?

No, he's featured quite a bit. Oh really? Well, I've also really only seen the first 20 minutes of that movie over and over and over. Yeah, you didn't catch that one in theaters like I did. But that's Donkey Kong, invest now in my cryptocurrency. It's called Donkey Kong Bonanza. And it's a 3D Donkey Kong game. You're running around like a big open world,

but the big deal is that he can smash fucking anything. He can rip up a chunk of ground and just launch it at somebody or punch through the earth to dig for gems and stuff. And it just looks like fast and silly and crazy and good. And I'm excited for it. Yeah. Do you wanna know what our friends at home

are talking about? Yes. How about this one from Max who says, my small wonder is that my roommate brought a metric shit ton of free cheese home. He works at a health food store, so sometimes they give him fancy bread and cheese that's past its sell date. Right now we have over $100 worth of Chevrolet a metric shit ton of free cheese home. He works at a health food store, so sometimes they give him fancy bread and cheese

that's past its sell date. Right now we have over $100 worth of Chevrolet and spreadable stuff, along with a 14 inch wheel of brie. We are living like kings with the fanciest pastas and cheese boards known to man. That's gotta be great. Wow, that's amazing. That's gotta be exciting.

I never had a roommate who brought it in. You had a big trash bag of popcorn though. That was my doing, and it's pales in comparison to a 14 inch wheel of cheese. That's so much grief. Jodie says, my small wonder this week is stuff glowing under a black light, whether it's a bowling alley carpet, a scorpion,

a gin and tonic, or just a crisp white shirt, this magical fluorescence is always super cool. Obviously, except for when it is not. But when it reveals certain, you know, your teeth aren't up to snuff or whatever. That can be a tough putt, but galactic bowling, I'll always go crazy for that. See, this is something that'll be interesting to discuss

at some point, is that where I grew up, it was called cosmic bowling. So I'm wondering if it's a regional thing. Probably, probably. Get at us. The polls are open. Thank you so much for listening. Thanks to Bowen and Augustus

for the use of our theme song, Money Won't Pay. Find a link to that in the episode description. Thank you to Maximum Fun for having us on the network. We got some merch over in the merch store that you can go check out right now. Got that Miggi Mackerel spinner pin. I like so much this over at mackereymurch.com. We also have some live shows coming up.

We're gonna be in Michigan. We're coming to a bunch of cons. We're doing a whole bunch of shows. You can find out all that info at bit.ly slash mackereytours. Come see MbimBam, come see Taz. We're coming for you, maybe, if you live in one of a handful of parts of the country. That's it.

Thank you so much for listening, for vibing with us on this chill drive time radio hour. We've been your hosts, Rachel and Griffin, and until next time. What if we did speak in that voice the whole episode? People I think would love it, actually. Do you really? I feel like people, that's the nice thing

that people always say about my voice, is that it's so chill and soothing. Yeah, but me, I get excited. I'm like, 14 inch wheel of breathing. You get very loud sometimes, yes. But that could be like my character, it's like the chill. More of the Dharma. I mean, if you put it that sometimes, yes. But that could be like my character, it's like the chill. More of the Dharma.

I mean, if you put it that way, yeah. Money won't pay, work it all in. Money won't pay, work it all in. Money won't pay, work it all in. Money won't pay, work it all in. Music Maximum Fun, a workaround network of artist-owned shows, supported directly by you.