Yet Another Star Trek Podcast - Ep 060: Lorca Wasn't Wrong (The Last Days of Disco Podcast Festival)

Episode Date: April 30, 2024

Captain Gabriel Lorca is a controversial figure in Star Trek history. A vicious war-time captain, he used tactics that went against the grain of science-focused Starfleet. But despite ulterior motives (and being from the Mirror Universe), Lorca was the best captain that the USS Discovery ever had. He took a young crew and molded them into a fierce fighting force that was able to deal with any situation quickly and decisively. Lorca wasn't wrong to command the way he did, and we'll prove it. Thanks to The Duras Sisters Podcast and Strange New Pod for inviting us to participate in The Last Days of Disco podcast, honoring the final season of Star Trek Discovery! Be sure to check out our website, social media, and join our Discord! Links for all are listed below: Website | Discord | BlueSky | Facebook | Instagram | Threads | Twitter | TikTok | YouTube Drop us an email at [e-mail]! “Warp Speed” and "To the Stars" was written and performed by William Grobbelaar Music: https://soundcloud.com/williamgrobbelaarmusic Additional artwork by George Rateau: https://www.fiverr.com/georgerateau

Hey everybody, welcome to yet another Star Trek podcast. That's right, you heard it. We are in fact yet another Star Trek podcast. That's right, you heard it. We are, in fact, yet another Star Trek podcast. And we're so sorry that you have to listen to us today. But we're really glad that you're here. Thank you so much for joining us. My name is Drew. I am joined by Majid, my best friend in the whole wide world.

What's going on, buddy? Love you, best friend. Listen, man, we're on video for the very first time. I feel like I am able to confide things in you in a way that I have never been able to before. Oh my god. This is big pressure. Oh god, I feel like swerve. Yeah, we are on video for the very first time. Yeah, everybody gets to see your beautiful background. You're of course covering up your beautiful locks of hair with a hat. Oh, yeah.

And then you can see how I live in squalor back here with my TV hung up with the wires not even hidden. Yeah. And just dumbbells all over the place. I actually showed one of our test videos to my my good friend. Pave and he he complained about those very same wires that you're pointing out there, but now, yeah, yeah, no, it's listen, it's

everything as a homeowner, I'm not sure if people realize this, everything as a homeowner is a work in progress. And unfortunately, this office is also work in progress. I've only just got my wife out of my office. I built her an office off our breezeway at the front of the house, which by the way, she hardly ever uses. Isn't that just that's lovely, man. That is the best.

But yes, we are for the very first time, there are two of us, we are a dynamic duo. Normally there's a third and we miss him dearly. And we just got the official news. Brad is actually getting early released from the Thai prison that he's currently serving eight years in. Thank God. Thank God. Yeah, he's getting an early release.

I wish him all the best and he should be back with us soon. Oh man, I can't wait to see him again. Yeah, he already has tattoos now. I bet. I mean, how else are you going gonna survive in prison if you're not tattoos He has a tattoo in the back of his neck that says this side up. Oh It's miss an arrow just pointing up. I That's for shipping purposes

So The reason we're on video for the very first time is because we have been graciously welcomed to the last days of disco, uh, podcast festival and a shout out to the strange new pod who has done an absolute wonderful job of putting this whole thing together. Uh, they are in cahoots with, uh, Dura sisters, uh, another wonderful pod and, um, we're, we're thrilled to be a part of this because we are going to have an opportunity to talk about one of the absolute greatest parts of Star Trek discovery.

I am super excited about this. I mean, I don't know if you could sense how excited I truly am. Majid, we get to talk about the best captain ever. Pike. No, no, no, no, it's not Pike. Try again. Lorca. Lorca.

Captain, Captain James Isaac, Jason Isaac's Lorca. Captain James Jason Isaac Lorca. Yes, that's exactly his name. No, no. We're talking about Gabriel Lorca here. Gabriel Lorca. And. Go for it. We're talking about Gabe Lorca.

Yeah, played by the ever, ever awesome Jason Isaacs. God, you know, we, when we, you know, when we first talked about Discovery coming back or Star Trek coming back to TV, it was a big deal. Oh, huge. Yeah, it was the first series, first Star Trek series since Quantum Leap Guy was captain. Yeah, yeah, Scott Bakula, you're right.

Yeah, I had toula you're right. Yeah, I think about Yeah, even though he was on Star Trek I'll always know him as As quantum leap guy that's I don't get never you can never home. Yeah, I think that's that's perfectly acceptable I mean quantum leap was a great show and yeah, you know, yeah Yeah, just like the guy who plays MacGyver will always be known as MacGyver Right and and never for anything else, you know, yeah like Stargate. Did you know he was a Stargate? I did the guy from MacGyver. Yeah, but but I didn't recognize him at first cuz he didn't have the hair He didn't have the hair or the Swiss Army. This was Army knife

But no listen James Jason It's just, yeah. But no, listen, James Jason, Jason Isaacs. Yeah. Was expertly cast as. Arguably. The best part of season one, he was. He was my favorite part of it, top to bottom, because you know what? We hadn't seen a captain quite like him, you know, up to this point, right? Every captain that we've had in Star Trek has been very, uh, clean cut, very by the

book, even Kirk, who like you and I, we're currently going through the original series on our podcast and, and Kirk will bend and break the rules from time to time But he is not willing to do Literally anything that takes to get the job done, right? Yeah and and Lorca Really really was He he would just just go for it, right? Yeah Lorca. Just just a man on a mission like literally

you get to the back half of the season. You realize what his mission was. Well, yeah, I mean, we can we can get into that in a little more detail. But, you know, like, here's the thing. When you're in war and Larker was in war, you do what needs to be done to win the war. And unfortunately, you know, you may have to crack a few eggs across in the process, right? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Like there's some, there's some parts of war I don't like. Like, I think you're in war with like one of your neighbors where they'll cut their lawn at like four o'clock in the morning when you're just trying to sleep.

Yeah, I've had some issues with my neighbors cutting like my lawn for some reason. They forget that my driveway is not a property line. But anyway, go on. They're like somebody has to do it. Just sound like I don't. Listen, I got your back. Thank you, thank you. But you don't hire an actor like Jason Isaacs and expect him to be this cookie cutter, buttoned up, stick, stick in a mud.

Right. Jason Isaacs has an edge to him. Hmm. Um, and listen, as a, as a very big Harry Potter fan, seeing Jason Isaacs is in the Star Trek world. It excited me. How do you think he compared to his role in Harry Potter? You know how there are some people that are just really good

at doing a certain type of character? Like Bruce Willis is good at the action hero, and Tommy Lee Jones is good at taking charge, and Sean Bean is good at dying in movies. Jason Isaacs. Jones is good at taking charge and Sean Bean is good at dying and moving. Jason Isaks is good at being the bad guy. Yeah. You know, he can command a room and he does it with such gravitas. Yeah. It was a sight to behold. And I think we should probably also tell people why we're here today is was Lorca really wrong?

Hmm. I mean, did Lorca do anything wrong? Was Lorca wrong? I don't think it was. I don't either. I don't either. I mean, who did he hurt? Really? I would say absolutely nobody. Right. I mean, he didn't do anything that couldn't be undone. Right. Right. Right. You know, you know, I mean, I suppose he, he, you know, maybe push some of his, his officers a little too far, you know, I mean, I suppose he, he, uh, you know, maybe push some of his, his officers a little too far, you know, like statements like, you know, maybe he made them jump one time too many and, you know, like just because he ended up crossing

dimensions by sheer accidents at that moment, you know, that was not Lorca's fault. That was Stan's fault. Yeah. I mean, clearly. Yeah. If it wasn't for Lorca, let's get a couple of things clear. If it wasn't for Lorca, we wouldn't have Burnham as captain right now.

Right. I mean, spoiler alert. Yeah. I mean, isn't it kind of like a butterfly effect of sorts. Yeah, a butterfly flaps his wings and Jason Isaacs is cast as Lorca. And great things happen. If it wasn't for Lorca, we wouldn't have Zaddy Pike. Yeah. We would have we didn't.

Wouldn't have Saru as captain. No, we wouldn't. It can also be argued, right? Hear me out on this. Lorca being the catalyst for the events of season one of Discovery, he was already a fantastic leader in his own world. Yeah. Right.

He became a leader when he took over his doppelgangers position That and only that Advancements of technology. Mm-hmm under Lorca Improved we wouldn't have those advancements if it wasn't for Lorca Well, that's because Lorca was willing to you know capture and imprison species of all sorts of types and run tests on them. Like the Tartar grade, for example, right? We wouldn't have come up with a way to sustainably sport jump from place to place instantaneously without those experiments.

No. Yeah. And listen, I'm not condoning animal testing, but it's a big but. If it wasn't for animal testing, we wouldn't have herbal essences, shampoo. Right, and then you wouldn't smell lovely. I mean, clearly I'm not the target audience. You're right, you're not the target audience. audience anymore because we don't go to the office together. Yeah. And Lorca just listen.

Let's if we were to put in a line two different lists. OK, on one list we have Lorca's war crimes. Then we have James T. Kirk's achievements. Would they look so different? I don't think they would, you know? I mean, I think it would be pretty close. I mean, both of them couldn't stand Harry Mudd, for example. The original or the one played by Rainn Wilson. Right, yeah, correct. Yeah. You know, know, I mean geez we could do an entire podcast on that

But um, yeah, I mean we should write that down. We should absolutely write that Okay, I will write that down bonus I Already figured out what it was. That's how bad I am at this The memory is just not there anymore. Okay, it's gone. Hey, yeah. Oh, mud versus mud. Okay, all right, great. Back on track.

Damn. Yeah, Lorka, let's see. So we were talking about Lorka's, quote, war crimes versus Kirk's accomplishments, quote, unquote, right? Yeah. So, I mean look you play chicken right mm-hmm and when you're playing chicken with the enemy when you're playing chicken with the enemy it's a matter of who blinks first right you know who doesn't blink at all?

Lurka. Lurka. Right. Kirk blinked. He blink. Kirk would blink all the time and not once did Lurka blink. So let's let's go back to the the moment when Lurka was locked up in the Klingon ship with Ash Tyler and Harry Mudd. Right. Remember that? Yeah. And three of them are all in the same cell.

Lorca saved both their lives, really. Yeah. If you think about it. So all three of them got out alive. Absolutely. He saved the Starfleet officer, brought him onto his ship, made him his security chief. He saw something special in Ash Tyler. He gave him a job. He gave him a job.

Yeah. He found love. Ash found love. Twice. Twice. He made some discoveries about himself. Well yeah, you know, sometimes if you just look inside a little deeply, you can find a little bit more about yourself than you realize. I really hope people have watched all of season one.

They could get that reference. I feel like if they're tuning into a podcast festival about the last season of Star Trek Discovery, there's a high probability they've seen season one. Yeah. Admittedly, it's been a while since I've watched it. I haven't gone back to see some any, any of the seasons in quite some time. Um, but I mean, there's a lot that's just so memorable about the season, right? Like we could, let's talk about the way Lorca led the crew.

Like discovery that that crew just seems so young and confused. And they had Lorca who is a grizzled veteran weathered. He's been through the ringer. He knows how to lead a crew, whip them into shape and get them to perform to his standards. Right. Yeah. I remember that that scene when he was standing on the bridge ordering combat drills just over and over and over again. And guess what? It worked.

The crew performed amazingly. Yeah. Yeah, Lorca was a fantastic leader. He was. He never really treated his crew badly, outwardly bad. You know? Lorca was a man in love, a man that was out of place, and he somehow survived, you know, in a world

that wasn't his. Not only survived, thrived. You know, he thrived in this world. He was promoted, right? He got the command of his own ship in the Prime Universe, yeah. Yeah, I mean, he was the original commanding officer of the Buran. And when the Buran was destroyed,

he took over Discovery. He was the only survivor from the USS Buran. He destroyed the ship so that his crew wouldn't fall in the hands of the Klingons. And, uh, you know, he even suffered debilitating eye injury. So he was even struck. He was handicapped in the prime universe. Yeah. And, um, just gonna put it out there. You know, Starfleet, if you're injured, they're probably gonna sideline you. Right. I mean, even Pike got sidelined. Yeah. You know, he could have kept happening, happening, capping, capping,

capping, capping, capping. Pike could have been a captain. Yeah. You know, he could have kept going. But Starfleet decided to to to bench him. Yeah. You know, but they didn But they didn't bench Lorca. Not with his injury. And when Admiral Cornwell tried to, because she felt like he was psychologically incapable

of captaining a ship, which I wholeheartedly disagree with. Look, you're in a war. You touch a guy while he's sleeping. He's going to put a phaser in your face, right I Mean that's why I tell my wife just you know to tap me like we have a system of taps there you go Yeah, how many taps is the phaser in the face I? Can't tell you that I can't tell anybody that oh You know I just like saying hey, what's the the secret password? You got to pick up your kid from school?

What's that password? I can't tell you that it's you know it's Confidential I'll say you later. Okay. I can't tell you on air of course. Yeah, yeah Can you do you sleep with a phaser under your pillow Not anymore it has to be charged that night Yeah, these are charges. This is a weirdo 2024 phasers are having a USB C charger. We just don't hold the charge anymore. Brad's going to be so confused.

He gets out of prison. So it's out there. Everybody knows I was in prison. The only thing you know, the only thing that would have made Larka a better captain and you're not going to probably not going to agree with me on this. If Larka had a beard. OK, yeah, let's let's get into this. Like what what is the beard quotient for the mirror universe, right?

Like, if you have a beard, does that increase your awesomeness by a factor of two, factor of three? I think because everybody has a beard in the mirror universe. It doesn't. So it's like, so if I were beardless, I would be more awesome is what you're saying. In that universe. Yeah. Yeah. In my eyes, I probably wouldn't be doing this podcast with you. OK. OK. Well, you know, we just started doing video today. Yeah. Your beard looks fantastic. I can't stop looking at you.

Thank you. Like my eyes keep darting over on the camera. And I know I got to look a certain way, but I can't take my eyes off you, man. You are glorious and gorgeous. I love that shirt. Thank you. And for people who can't tell, Drew has also been doing five case. He outran a spaceship last month, which is pretty epic as a part of the five K down in Cape Canaveral. as a part of the 5K down in Cape Canaveral. So just wanted to take time out and tell people about that, because you don't always share.

Thanks, man. And yeah, proud of you. Thank you. But yeah, no, sorry, let's get back to the man of the 45 minutes, the man of the half hour, Lorca. Listen, I can't, What are the war crimes? Let's see what people think are war crimes that Lorca has committed and let's see if we can spin it. Let's be Lorca's personal spin doctor here. Okay. Let's be, I was going to say his Fox News, but I don't want to get political, but I just said Fox News anyway, so that's twice.

Mark Ferret? No, no, no, no, we're good. If we get canceled, it's fine. At least I didn't go to a Thai prison with Brad. That's true. So for starters, he's responsible for imprisoning a number of different species and conducting experiments on them. He's responsible

for amassing a large collection of genocidal weapons. Right? Okay. The U.S. does that though. And these are these are accusations. They have not been proven in a court of law. So let me just let me just rephrase that he's accused of amassing a large collection of genocidal weapons, just like the United States of America does. Absolutely. He is accused of possibly destroying the USS Baronan unnecessarily? Nope, he was attacked.

He defended himself and he, destroying the ship, destroying a ship to ensure that the technology and secrets do not fall into enemy hands is absolutely the right thing to do. Yeah, it's why in Top Gun or any Mission Impossible movie, once the plane falls into enemy hands, they blow up that ship, or they disavow the agent,

or the message that was just sent to Ethan Hunt was just destroyed because information can't get out to enemy hands. So Lorca did the right thing. Right. Lorca did the responsible thing by ensuring that that ship did not fall to enemy hands. Well, he is accused of plotting to kill and overthrow Empress Chor-Joh. That one's a bit tougher to defend.

Yeah, because she's kind bit tougher to defend. Yeah, because she's kind of evil too. Right. So she's the greater of two evils. So if she was more evil than Lorca, then he absolutely had a right to take her out. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, look, she was complicating matters

by basically murdering everybody in sight, right? So, you know, he didn't wanna murder as many people. He felt like it would be better to roll with a soft touch in the mirror universe. Well, let's not say what Lorca did was murder. Let's say that he pruned. Let's compare Lorca to a gardener in that sense. You garden, right? You do. I do. Yeah. You can't have a rabbit around your carrots

or whatever gardeners plants. Groundhogs. You got a groundhog. I have a groundhog. I'm about to put a catapult back in the, in the backyard. Oh, I thought you were growing groundhogs. I gave you examples of things to grow and you're like, oh, groundhogs. You said rabbit. Yeah. Rabbit's gonna eat your groundhog. But no, you have to carefully prune out the bad seeds, the bad leaves, and any predators to your garden. And Lorca had a garden that he was trying to get back to.

Lorca had a garden, even when he was in the prime universe, he's protecting his garden. So let's not call it murder, unless we're talking about Kirk, we're talking about Lorca, it's pruning. He just getting some bad apples out of the way. I see. The CIA does it all the time.

Okay. I can get behind that, I guess. Check. Let's talk about some of his romantic encounters, right? Because Larka was quite the ladies man. You know, he's seen him. I mean, I'm just saying I would. He cuts.

He cuts an intimidating figure in that uniform. Yeah. He looked damn good in that uniform, right? Yeah. He looked damn good in that uniform, right? So it was always implied that he had something going on with Landry, but, you know, she wasn't on the ship very long. Unfortunately, you know. Cornwell, obviously, you know, they had a thing going on. Got a little too close.

Cat flew a little too close to the sun and, you know, they had a thing going on. Got a little too close. Cat flew a little too close to the sun and you know, kind of rubbed him the wrong way and he put a phaser in her face, right? No big deal though, right? She would have been fine. He didn't pull the trigger is all I'm saying. Yeah, he didn't really prune her. No.

And then the big one, the big reveal. Yeah. Burnham. Burnham, yes. He chose her. He groomed her. Ooh, can't use the grooming word, buddy. Well, that's a bad word. To be fair, that is a quote from Giorgio.

Well, Giorgio was a murderess. We don't wanna trust the words was a murderess. We don't want to trust the words of a murderess. Okay. That's fair. That's fair. Okay. So I take back the offensive term. Yeah. Oh my God.

Speaking of grooming, just really off topic real quick. Quiet On Set, that new docu-series about Nickelodeon, it-hmm It's blowing my mind. It is wild really, but that's it. Yeah, it's oh my god It's all over the news right now, but that's it. It's neither here nor there I just you said the work grooming I thought quite on set but hey, it's fine fair so So it was uh Let's call it with Burnham Forbidden love mmm So it was, let's call it with Burnham, forbidden love.

How's that? Do you think he had forbidden love for two Burnhams at once, even though Prime Burnham did not reciprocate that love? Do you think he had feelings for her? That's why he went and tried to seek her out and save her and bring her to the ship, bring her on board Discovery. I think yes. And the same concept for our multiverse traveler, Brad,

is when you find the love of your life in one universe, that love is multidimensional. So even though this Burnham, were they had the same upbringing? Was Burnham in Mary Universe still raised as a sister to Spock? I don't believe so. I'm not sure, but I would probably lean towards a no.

Okay, so there's certain things that may alter the course of a person's life. So in the case of Prime Burnham, she maybe had a different upbringing and wasn't immediately in love with Lorca, but I know she damn well respected him. Right. I know.

She definitely respected him. And maybe one day that could have turned into love. I don't think she respected him enough though. I've never once heard Captain Burnham say boy in Season four I I would never have been captain if it weren't for Gabriel Lorca in season one She's never thanked him

She's just not a very appreciative person. She is not she does not have any appreciation for the sacrifices that Larka made Yeah, Larka made so many sacrifices. Yeah, I mean he's in the name of love. He sacrificed his life His eyes his eyes. Yeah, I mean he dove into the Sun for her He dove into like a star Yeah, he pruned so many people to make sure that she had a path forward. I don't know why Lorca gets such a bad rap. I don't know either.

I don't get it. I don't get it. What other war crimes do we have? Sorry, allegations. Allegations. Allegations, yes. That's a good way to put it. I mean, I learned that from our lawyer friend on Twitter. Yes.

Hi. Thank you for all the lawyer terms that I'm able to use. It's very helpful. Also, my cousin Vinnie. Super helpful. Yeah. Great film. Great film. Biography. Great biography. Biography. Okay. Based on a true story. Anyway, what are the allegations we have? I'm trying to think of some and I'm having a hard time because they're all bogus.

Oh, yes. Because they're all bogus. Let's have a, have an exercise here. Hit me what you got. All right. So Discovery has had four captains, official captains, right? I'm not counting Tilly when she was portraying Killy in season one because she wasn't really was that really the name?

I forgot about that. Killy. Yeah. Yeah. She wasn't really was that really the name? I forgot about that. Kill you. Yeah, yeah. So with Pike, Saru and Burnham. Out of those three, which one of them do you think would have handled the Klingon War the best? If not, Lorca, right, like work is not in the picture. So who's best equipped to handle the situation?

Lorca is not in the picture. Yeah. Who worked with Lorca the most? Saru, right? Saru was his, his number one. So I would have to imagine that. So we have Saru. Well, you know, wasn't Pike also the captain? Or are you just talking to the course of season one? I have to imagine that. So we have Saru.

Well, you know, wasn't Pike also the captain? Or are you just talking to the course of season one? Well, no, I'm talking like if we took Pike and put him in season one. Do you think he would do as good of a job? I love Pike. You know, I love Pike. Yeah, Pike is my favorite captain in all of Star Trek. And I don't think he would have done as a good job. You know why?

Because while Pike is an excellent strategist, even himself knew that he wasn't as good a strategist as Kirk. He knew that. But also, I talked to you before while playing Chicken with the enemy and who blinks first. Pike still blinks. Pike blinks a lot. Yeah. Pike will still blink. Pike still has that bit of humanity in him, as does Burnham, even though she's raised as a Vulcan. Saru, not a human, but definitely has a ton of compassion. So it sounds like you're implying that compassion is a bad trait for a captain. Misplaced compassion is bad for a captain.

Okay. So if we think about our previous point about Lorca's love life, Lorca had compassion, but when he's in that captain's chair, he knows how to shut it off. He knows how to manage it. Yeah. Do you think that he would launch somebody that he loves out of an escape pod Like somebody he loves when he launched him out of an escape pod. Yeah, like accidentally quote-unquote Because he's not a moron. Yeah

Again, we're talking about You know Kirk did that right? Yeah man the Talking about Kirk did that, right? Yeah, man, the design choices on those other ships where that red button is right. It's like right here. This is like, I'm going to go adjust myself. Oh, my God. Half of the ship just got you know. Yeah, no, Larkca wouldn't do that.

Lorca cares about his his Lorca cares about his crew enough that he will make the decisions that no one else can make. And I'm not talking about any other captain or not any other crew member. I was talking about any other captain. Right. So, you know, if we're talking about crew lost as well, I'm pretty sure Lorca is on the lower end of that spectrum. Yeah. Something else that I want to talk about, too, is Lorca's brilliance, right? Lorkas brilliance, right? He found a way to chart a course

through an experimental plane of existence, mycelium network, right? He charted a course across universes with very limited data. And then in the middle of a battle, found a way to calculate all the information that he needed to get home. It's amazing. It really is.

And even during that time, he didn't, he never really took his eye off the ball. Like, yeah, he, even though he had one goal, he never put his, no one was ever really in danger. Right. I don't think. No, I would argue that the steps that he took were mitigated. Any potential losses, he weighed them and they were mitigated. He knew exactly what he was doing.

It makes him a better captain for it. No, that makes him a better human slash captain for it because that exactly what he is, a human person. Human captain. He's also a captain is a human person human captain also a captain a human captain hmm Yeah, I I don't get it. I don't get all the hate what any other allegations we could think of can we I mean I'm sure there's countless baseless ones, but

I'm having a hard time thinking of them. Oh, what about those? Creatures that he tried to hunt to extinction, right? But but they're protected species So he couldn't do that Right, but that's what they were accusing him of doing like hunting the the the whale was a space whales So that was also a point for him to get home wasn't it um So that was also a point for him to get home, wasn't it? Um Well that was that was just a ruse when it came to mud, you know boarding his ship invading his crew You know mud captured the space whale and

Then when he allowed the whale to be beamed on board, that's when all hell broke loose, right? If Lorka had been allowed to terminate the whale in the first place, none of this would have happened If Lorka had been allowed to live if he didn't die Unceremoniously, I think that there's a few things that wouldn't have happened. The burn, the burn wouldn't have happened. Burn would never have happened.

We wouldn't have the rogue AI in what, season two? You know, we wouldn't have that. And the discovery in itself, the ship, would not be better off. Well, I'm sorry, would be better off with him as captain. How do you think Lorca would fare in the 32nd century? Can we curse on this? No, we shouldn't curse. Lorca would make, you should.

Well, when we first started this, I said that we should kind of keep it clean wherever we could. Yeah. We failed on a few instances. Look, I've edited out most of those, but your daughter's older now, so she probably says worse things than we say.

I hope not. I'm sorry. She's 12, man. I thought she was like older than that. Well. No, no, she's she's 12. OK, well. Good luck with that.

Thanks. All right, anyway, Lorca would have made the 32nd century his. Female dog. Lorca would have would the 32nd century his female dog. Lorca would have grabbed the bull by the horns, theoretically, but it wouldn't have had to get that far. Because Lorca is a master chess player. Lorca sees the chessboard and the whole chessboard. Ten moves ahead and he knows what his opponent's thinking. He is getting into the mind of his opponent

and he's not blinking. He's not blinking, man. Yeah, the discovery would be better off if Lorca were allowed to live. Yeah. But you know, others wanted to seize power and Lorca had to die for it. And they didn't sign Jason Isaacs to Morton once. You know what? That was one of the most disappointing things. Like I'm with you. Like I, I've really enjoyed

captain Pike. I think Anson Mount is doing a great job. Him so much. But, you know, we wouldn't have we wouldn't have a spin off. Strange New Worlds without Lorca. Right. And if Jason Isaacs had signed out for more than one year, like, I really think they could have run with that. Yeah, I'd like to think somewhere out there. Prime Lorca is still alive, still trying to

find his way home. You know, let's, let's, let's, let's pause it there. Let's, let's, let's talk about that for a sec. Prime Lorca versus, can we call him Mirror Lorca or, or Better Lorca? Let's call him mirror Lorca or better Lorca? Let's call them better Lorca. So prime Lorca versus better Lorca. Are they on the same level? Well, we don't know. We don't know, right.

So assuming that they are on the same level, we would have to imagine that we would have heard of other Lorca when the discovery actually jumped over to the mirror universe. Right. We would have heard about it. We didn't. And he was just centric.

There's speculation that he was killed. You know, the theory is that when better Lorca crossed over to the prime universe, prime Lorca went to the mirror universe, right? Where he was like immediately killed, like his ship was destroyed. Is S. Baran was in the middle of attempting to coup against George show and he, he flipped over and then the baron was destroyed. That's that's the theory. I don't know. Theory.

Yeah. I mean, you know, we don't have any proof against it or for it for that matter. But I'd like to think that somewhere out there, we have Prime Lorca just sitting on a beach, having a margarita, thinking about ways to get back home. And that's why better Lorca will always be a better Lorca because better Lorca wouldn't just be waiting for things to happen, but yeah, better Lorca is a go getter. Yep. I bet she doesn't drink margaritas either.

No, he doesn't too many carbs. Not going to fit into a uniform. Well, he's got those fortune cookies on his desk. That's a little weird. I Mean, we're all allowed one cheat day. It's a lot of fortune cookies for a cheat day Can you imagine I wonder if he just like opens them up looks at the fortune and then just throws them on the ground It's kind of like going to Texas Roadhouse where they give you the peanuts. They don't do that anymore. Apparently really? Yeah, they don't they don't throw peanuts on the ground. I mean, I was there a couple of months ago

and they certainly did. I wonder if you went to see just a dirty Texas Roadhouse. It was a bad one. It wasn't Waterberry, so that tracks. Oh gosh, shout out to Waterberry. Yeah, dirty water. Oh God. Shout out to waterberry. Yeah. Dirty water. Oh, God. My car, I'd make locks my doors when I hold the waterberry.

All right. So you say that you can say you can say anything you like. All right. So let's make our final pitch, I think, for Lorca being the best captain of discovery. I'm ready. Go ahead. Oh, I thought I, I mean, I'm ready to talk about it. Oh, okay. I thought, okay.

Yeah. Oh, no, no, no. All right. We'll, we'll, we'll do this collectively. Right. So first and foremost, right. When you have a captain of a ship and he's captaining a Vessel that has a secret weapon with the sport drive

You need somebody that is going to be willing to do anything and everything at all costs to protect that item, right? And that is captain Gabriel Lorca He was committed to winning this war no matter cost. And if that meant sacrificing, you know, pruning, a couple of bad eggs out of the carton, then so be it. But you need to get rid of the bad eggs before you make your omelet, right? Because otherwise the omelet's gonna be kinda nasty. And then, you know, maybe some of those eggs

have to be broken in the process too, even the good ones. You gotta break eggs. You gotta break eggs, and you gotta make sure that you have good eggs in the first place Yeah, so, you know He pushed the crew to their limits and even a little beyond he's like, you know what? I know you guys I've seen you I'm not gonna ask for a hundred percent I'm gonna ask for a hundred and twenty five percent I'm not going to ask for 100%. I'm going to ask for 125% in 12 hour shifts every day until we win the war.

Yeah. Lorca was. Listen, not only the Lorca. Let me take a second here. I love that. That was, I felt that right here in my upper boob area on the left side of my heart is. That was beautiful.

I don't know how I'm gonna top that. I won't be able to. Speak from the heart. Professor Love. Speak from the heart and you're too late. No, that's a different song. So Lorca is the best damn thing to happen to Starfleet. And Starfleet is worse off without Lorca. If it wasn't for Lorca, sorry, if Lorca had stayed around, the discovery would still be in the conversation.

Still be in the 23rd century. It would still be in the 23rd century. It wouldn't have gotten wiped from the history books. And if it wasn't for Lorca, Michael Burnham, probably still be in prison. Yeah. And nothing. We don't only have one season of discovery. We'd never have anything beyond that because Burnham will be prison and her story will be over the end. Yeah. I don't even listen. Here's here's here's how far I'll go with this. Lorca wasn't even the main character. Burnham is not even the main character of Star Trek Discovery Season 1. Lorca is. He's the secret protagonist that no one wanted, but we all deserved.

That's right. You don't cast someone like Jason Isaacs to play a cookie cutter role. He has grit. He has determination. Lorca kept Starfleet's proprietary technology within Starfleet by destroying the ship to not fall into enemy hands. Lorca, even though he did some pruning, he did it for the right reasons. He didn't push anyone's buttons, he didn't have to. He did not kill indiscriminately. I will go on to argue that Lorca did whatever he did for love. That's beautiful.

Just like Aladdin did it. Aladdin did it for love and so did Lorca. And so did Meatloaf. I love Meatloaf. Oh! Meatloaf. Yeah. But Meatloaf. Oh, meatloaf. Yeah. But meatloaf wouldn't do that. Lorca would.

Lorca would. Me love wouldn't do everything for love, but he wouldn't do that. Lorca would. Yeah. I got to figure out how to make them to a song now. That's just great. Thanks. Thanks for that. Thank you. Is there anything else that you'd like to add as far as Lorka goes? As far as Lorka goes, no.

I think we've covered pretty much all the bases, right? Not just covered all the bases, but I think that anyone who was a hater of Lorca's actions, whoever deemed Lorca's actions as illegal, now says, oh, you know, maybe he wasn't so bad. Maybe he was right. Maybe I'm going to give, you know, his actions in season one. I'm going to look at him under a different light. Yeah. You know, Lorca wasn't so bad.

The same. Listen, the same conversation we're having now about Lorca is the same that people had after Thanos snapped away half the universe. We should create a subreddit. Lorca wasn't wrong. the same that people had after Thanos snapped away half the universe. We should create a subreddit. Lorca wasn't wrong. Lorca was Thanos. Lorca versus Thanos. Who would win in a fight? Lorca or Thanos?

I mean, clearly we know the answers. It's going to be Lorca. Yeah. He would probably, Lorca would imprison Thanos in the same force field that the tardigrade was in and make the two of them fight. He would make Ant-Man go down to a small size and go up Thanos's butt, like all the other theories said. There you go. Yeah.

Because, you know, L Lorca is just the guy. He knows how to get things done. Yeah. You know? Well, but I'm proud to call Gabriel Lorca my captain. But we'd love to know what you guys think. Tell us what your favorite Lorca moments are. And tell us, did we convince you to love Lorca?

Like we love Lorca and Lorca we trust. Oh, hashtag and Lorca we trust. Love it. I love it. You're going to have to write that down as well. I already forgot it. Of course you did. Can you write it down for me? I'm writing it down now

Hey, so everybody we really want to thank you for tuning in and we really hope that you agree that You know worker was not wrong to do any of the things that he did. Um, but we'd love to hear what you think and what your favorite Lorca moments were and, uh, whether or not you agree with us. So, you know, stop on by. We've got all kinds of information regarding our show available at our website, www.yet, YouTube, TikTok. We use about a third of it, but it's there.

And you can find us at yet another ST pod on those as well. Of course, the best place to interact with us is actually in our discord room. And if you've been looking at the scrolly thing at the bottom of the screen, you'll notice that we have a lot of people that are watching our show. As well, of course the best place to interact with us is actually in our discord room and If you've been looking at the scrolly thing at the bottom of the screen, you'll see a bitly link for that I tried to make it easy for you well now you're pointing at a line that's blank, but it'll come around again and Go ahead

Every wait in a while because now we're at the end of the scroll but um, but but it has been passing there throughout the show and you know, so so we'd love to have you come and join us and talk about Star Trek and Show us pictures of your pets like we have an entire chat room just for dogs cats fish Tartar grades you name it right? They're all there tribbles, I Mean we have a thread for, for just, you know, check out, check out my tribal. Isn't it cute? I gave it some food yesterday. I hope I'm not in trouble. So in any case, um,

shout out one more time to everybody that's involved in the last days of disco, a pod festival, especially, uh a giraffe and Julian, uh, for coordinating this whole thing. You guys have been just absolutely wonderful. And we really just feel so gracious to be a part of this big thing. Uh, discovery season five, the last season of discovery is right around the corner and, um, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I have mixed feelings, man. Like, you know, without, without getting into it too much, you know, this show has had some ups and downs for me, but, uh, I'm sad to

see it come to an end. Yeah. It's a, it's an important, important show. Listen, having a female black lead in a Star Trek show is something that Nichelle Nichelle Nichelle Nichols would have only dreamed about. So it's important. It's an important milestone in Star Trek. If I'm not mistaken, she had an opportunity to meet Sonequa Martin-Green at the premiere. So, you know, that was a big torch to pass. And I think Sonequa Martin-Green has done an excellent job carrying that torch.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, she really has. We also, I mean, Doug Jones. Oh my God. Be still in my heart. Doug Jones. Love Doug Jones.

He hasn't done a bad role ever. No. And has Jason Isaacs has never done anything like this? No. I think he's the most successful star trek star trek star trek star trek star trek star trek star trek star trek star trek star trek star trek star trek star trek star trek star trek star trek star trek star trek star trek star trek star Even if it's amongst a small crowd, even if he has greater success with with Harry Potter and other films, you know, and people look back at his career and they don't think about Star Trek at first. His name is always linked to the first chain in the building blocks of an entirely new franchise. Yeah. You know, which spawned spin-off, Strange New Worlds, right? And really just, it spawned a movie

and actually two series now, because Starfleet Academy is coming out. Starfleet Academy, yep. They did the section 31. Section 31, okay. Yep, section 31 movie, it's just finished production. So, you know, this discovery is responsible for everything that we have in Star Trek right

now. Otherwise the last thing we would have had would have been, you know, TV wise enterprise and the JJ Abrams movies. And that probably would have been it. I love the JJ Abrams. I do too. have been it. I love the JJ Abrams. I do, too. They're great. I do. I love them. They're great. Zoe Saldana. Oh, God. Yep. Anyway, well, before before something inappropriate happens on this webcam, why don't we wrap it up?

But just one more time, thanks, everybody, for tuning in. We hope you enjoy the festival and come on by and say hello. Hope to see you soon. Yeah. Love it. Bye everyone. Thank you. Bye. So Music you