You Be Trippin' - Syria w/ Rolf Potts | You Be Trippin' with Ari Shaffir

Episode Date: October 14, 2024

SPONSORS: -Cut your wireless bill to 15 bucks a month at https://MINTMOBILE.com/TRIPPIN. -Go to https://prettylitter.com/TRIPPIN to save twenty percent on your FIRST order and get a free cat toy. On this episode of You Be Trippin, Rolf Potts praises Con Air and stays at a Christian monastery in Syria, where the people are friendly despite the country’s bad reputation. He and Ari also discuss backpacking culture, his travel books, refugees, and sex outside of marriage. They also come up with a new episode idea about watching American movies in other countries and, together, they design the perfect travel backpack. Other topics include: the NBA, land borders being made up, James Brown, plastic chairs, and Fight Club. انبسطوا! You Be Trippin' Ep. 36 https://www.instagram.com/arishaffir https://www.instagram.com/youbetrippinpod https://store.ymhstudios.com Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Yeah, it's funny when we're, we'll start in a second, but like, I was talking to someone in Thailand, like Sapaung, it was like the cave lodge place I went. And we started talking about politics was 2017, right after Trump got elected. And then it was like starting to come up a little bit and they were both looked at each other like, let's not do this. We're like, yeah, let's not. It's so easy to do. Yeah, it was so great not to.

Where you been and where you going? This is Ari's Travel Show, yeah. We're gonna talk about travel today. It's UB Trippin', yeah. Ladies and gentlemen, welcome to UB Trippin'. It's a travel podcast. It's the only podcast overthrown recently by Hootie Rebels. We go to a different place every week

and today my guest is fucking excited, man. Excited to have you, Rolf Potts, world-renowned traveler and travel writer. My teacher, I guess. Yeah, what does the teacher call his student? It's not Sensei, that's the other one. Yeah, no Sensei. Grasshopper.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. All right, I'd be the grasshopper for this. That's great. In the set design today, two of his books, Vagabonding and The Vagabond's Way. I respect how beat up The Vagabond's Way is. Dude, it's been places. It's been to way more places than most of my friends.

Wow, yeah. I've taped it already. That is the pre-copy. Yeah, that's the press copy, the advanced edition. I love it. It's such a good, like, oh, I'm delayed 20 minutes. Let me just read a couple chapters. And you skip to random ones.

You could go all the way through. They're just one page meditations. Don't read into that word, as some reviewers do. It's nothing to do with meditation. But, yeah, they're great. It's nothing to do with meditation. But get a grip. Dip in as you go. It gets you right back in there. When I started reading it,

we'll get into where we're going in a second. But when I started reading it, I was like six chapters in. I was like, I gotta get out of here. I gotta get the fuck out of here. Good, that's good to hear. I get way more feedback about that book probably because it's been out for 21 years.

So it's good to hear about my new books as well. So this was the vagabond is vagabond or vagabonding is way more of like a how to yeah. And this is you don't golf do you? I haven't golfed since maybe 1986. You know, Harvey Pinnock he wrote this book called little red book. Okay. He was like a local municipal golf coach. And then he ended up coaching like a bunch of randomly Masters champions.

Davis Love III I think and a few others. And he just had these words of wisdom, Little Red Book, each one kind of like that. Just like, hey, don't worry about a guy who has a bad swing and a good grip, but definitely worry about a guy with a bad swing and a bad grip because he's figured it out. Yeah. Uh, things like that. Uh, anyway, vagabond's way it's available right now everywhere. Um, so where are we going today? Rolf? We're going to Syria.

Fuck yeah. Yeah. No chance. I'm going to have another guest talk about Syria. When'd you go? Why'd you go? What's, talk to me. I went in the year 2000. So as of the time we're taping this, it was like 24 years ago. Damn. But it was also,

so that means it's a unique time to see a place. I think sometimes we see things in terms of like the historical moments. And so I think that like the revolution or that thing happened in 2011, like the massacre and the crackdown, the protests and the crackdown. And Syria was like the worst place in the world to be.

And there was all these Syrian refugees. So this was 10 years before that. It was actually before 9-11. It was like a year and a half before 9-11. And so even though it's like, oh, well, how relevant can that be? It's like, well, Syrians were Syrians then and they're Syrians now.

And there wasn't a war, and I went there as a dirtbag backpacker. And I'd like to think that the people I met there are hanging on and doing well. And that's, again, I don't need to preach this to you, just the idea that travel teaches you the stuff that's beneath the headlines. It teaches you what kind of snacks

you can get in the public square. It talks about how random people are interested in the weirdest things like NBA. They went into it? At an intense conversation about the Utah Jazz when I was in initially Syria. Really? Yeah, yeah.

They follow it? I guess so, why not? I don't know how, because at the time, you couldn't get it on Hotmail. I guess you could get it on the internet, but you couldn't get on Hotmail. I'm dating myself in this trip. It was like pre-Gmail.

So I couldn't log in to my own email when I was in Syria. But news got around, and it's funny. It's interesting what people are fascinated by across cultural lines. And in this little town on the Turkish-Syrian border, there's enough guys who were just interested in the NBA that that's what we talked about. Wow, did they have any players back then?

Turkey had like one or two. Oh, no, but they were talking about, I don't know, Karl Malone, I think he was playing back then. But this happened in Korea. I lived in Korea for a couple of years, and a lot of my male students were just really interested in the NBA, and there weren't any Koreans in the NBA back then. They just thought it was interesting.

American pop culture and sports culture is so influential that I think everywhere. Yeah, also back then probably we were still the dominant basketball powerhouse. Yeah, and we probably are to an extent though, maybe not an international play. I don't follow that sport. I saw the NBA finals at your house,

like when the Raptors won, I think. Oh yeah. But like, it's funny how geography determines what sports you love. And so college basketball is a Kansas thing, but NBA isn't. You know, I don't really have a team. Like I came of age before there was Oklahoma City,

which is kind of close. And of course I love the Bulls because I came of age before there was Oklahoma City, which is kind of close. And of course I love the Bulls because I came of age in the 90s. But I don't really follow the NBA. It's weird, the geography will tell you that. I was doing a show in Knoxville and I'm like, your biggest sports team is a woman's basketball

amateur team. Is it? Yeah. The Tennessee Bulls are like always dominant. And it's like, yeah, it's just the biggest sport there, women's college basketball. Yeah, well it's men's college basketball in Kansas for understandable reasons.

Bill Self, is he still the coach? Bill Self is still the coach. Got it. See, now we have, I spoke with Michael Jordan, there's kids everywhere. Because of Patrick Mahomes was the quarterback of the Chiefs. There's going to be Chiefs fans in Idaho and Alabama in 20 years, you know,

because it's who they grew up with. Okay, so let's go back to Syria. Sorry. So yeah, yeah, I'm only good at this for interviewing. We're keeping it back to the country. So this is 2000. Okay, I mean, tons of questions. How much are hostiles?

Who'd you meet? How'd you meet them? What'd you eat? Yeah, Why there? Well, I think that, and you've understood this in other contexts, that every part of the world has its own backpacker circuit.

And so information is coming back and forth on the backpacker circuit. And then probably more than now, you can sort of default to your phone and see where to stay in any given place. People are like, yeah, I was in Damascus and there's this place. It's an old Ottoman home with a fountain on the inside,

and they've worn out the old mansion rooms into bunk rooms, and it's $4 a night. And so I literally wasn't thinking of Syria as a geopolitical thing, but just as a cool place to go that was also in the backpacker circuit that people Egypt was sort of my hub back then, so people are coming from Jordan, they're coming from other parts of the Middle East, I was going to say Israel, but after you've been to Israel you can't, you can go to Egypt, but you can't go to

Syria, you can go to Jordan, you can go to Jordan, or Lebanon, I don't think you can go to Lebanon. Anyway, they do a thing now where they, instead of stamping your passport, they'll sticker it, yeah, and they're like, we know, go ahead, rip this off when you're done. Yeah. Although, when you get that Egyptian exit pass, sometimes they look for that in Syria. But, and so I saved Israel for last that year,

but you know, I've talked about Israel in our past, you know, in, for my podcast. The idea of a hub is interesting cause I didn't even think of it till you just said it, but like Thailand is the hub for Southeast Asia. You keep going back there and then other countries and back there and other countries. Totally, like Bangkok or Chiang Mai

is the hub in Southeast Asia. Cairo is the hub in the Middle East. It just makes complete sense. I mean, maybe some people, well, if Tel Aviv is their hub, then they can't go to certain places. So Cairo just makes the most sense as a hub. What is it in South America?

Like maybe- Good question. Trusco or- Or- Yeah, I don't know. It's so spread out. Ecuador. Well, I mean, there's, there's different. And again, it'd be like where this flights to lots of places. It has to be that it has to be centralized. So you're not thinking long flights. Maybe Buenos Aires down in the, in the horn. And then maybe, maybe Cusco or Lima.

Yeah, Pazuparu, yeah, I don't know. Anyway, but like so many parts of the world, in Central America it's Costa Rica, right? Right. So you have a place where you go first. Go to Colombia or Panama. It's sort of has, it's the easiest to travel in. It could be Panama.

Yeah. Yeah. And in like in East Africa, it's probably Kenya. And in South Africa, it's like Johannesburg, probably Cape Town. Yeah. And it probably has a different vibe of the travelers because of that. Right.

They're probably trading stories and giving out information. Totally. Sydney, maybe in Oceania. But obviously we've sort of fallen into the backpacker rail here of travel because when you're a backpacker, this is second nature, you know, that your information, especially back then, but probably even now,

is that you're sitting and talking to people and it's like, really? You went to a monastery in Syria? Tell me more. And so that's one of the things I'm gonna talk about is I went to this monastery that was amazing and it was full of backpackers, which I think annoyed the monks.

But yeah, and then Damascus was a great travel city and it's a shame that you can't really recommend that anybody go there now. Where's the dead city in terms of what you saw? It's no longer available. Yeah, and I have no idea. When we get into the specifics, I can sort of talk about what I saw

and speculate on whether or not it might be there. But in some ways, Damascus was like people talk about Havana. I saw a lot of old cars, like really old Buicks. In Damascus? In Damascus, yeah. Like I saw a Mercedes where some guy had taken off all the Mercedes symbols and put in Batman symbols. That's just how weird the world is.

You're talking about the NBA by the Turkish border, and then some dude has decided to kit out his Mercedes to look like a Batman car. But I loved Syria. It's one of my favorite places. I like Egypt because Egypt is so easy to come in and out of. It's all really cheap there. But Syria was just, Syria was like Egypt,

but they're less jaded. Like Egypt saw so many tourists, everything from people flying in for a weekend to go to the pyramids, to backpackers staying there for half a year. Whereas Syria is harder to get to, it has more of a dangerous reputation. And so Syrians are just so excited,

they meet Westerners, Europeans, Americans less often. And they were excited to see you? Absolutely, yeah. Like, give me some examples of like walking to restaurants and stuff. Yeah. And I guess this happens at any place in the world, but like in Damascus I would go and just sit down

at a cafe and you know, some guy who's playing backgammon would turn to me and ask where I was from and he was like hoping Germany, cause he spoke some German. And then you have a conversation. I mean, we had a conversation with some guy in Damascus, he's like, Reader's Digest isn't as good as it used to be. How on earth do you know about Reader's Digest? And so I think that people everywhere want to be global and if you're in

a place that's sort of been cut off from the rest of the world, like Syria sort of was and is even more now, they were just looking for news from the outside. Oh, hi everybody. Ari Shaffir breaking in to tell you a little bit about the guests. I'm wearing a Yankees jersey because the Yankees, it's game day and it's the playoffs. In New York, you represent your team. You represent your team when they're in the playoffs. Rolfe's team, the Kansas City Royals, was ousted by my New York Yankees. I hope he takes solace in the fact that the Royals have won a World Series more recently than the New Yankees even though we have a blow to payroll and a fuck two-time MVP They won't show up in the playoffs, but I believe in you Aaron last game was good Let me tell you about Rolfe. Oh by the way, I've got first I should tell you this

I've got a presale coming for my new tour. It is January February March. It's the farewell tour I'm doing January, February, March only one week in August. I mean in April and then one one gig in June and that's it. That's it. That's the rest of 2025. I'm not adding any cities. I'm not adding anything in 2026. That's it. So on Wednesday there's a presale 10 a.m. Local time wherever you are in the following cities Anchorage Atlanta Austin Brea Calgary Chicago Denver Edmonton Fort Lauderdale Nashville Orlando Pittsburgh Portland Providence Salt Lake City San Antonio San Jose Seattle

Tahoe Tampa and Vancouver Tahoe might not be ready for the presale but hopefully it will. It's the farewell tour presale October 16th. General sale October 18th. You want to get the best tickets during the presale. Promo code is Ari. Get tickets now. We'll start in Tahoe in December and Austin is in December and then end in Anchorage in June and nothing in May. Anyway let me tell you a little about the guest. Rolf Potts. If anyone who listens on Ari Shaffir's Skeptic Tank definitely knows him if you listen to that religiously. He was one of the most recurring guests. I guess Ryan O'Neill was probably the most.

Jeff Dan was probably second. Big Jay was right there. But Rolf was there, man. I read his book Vagabonding. What a tremendous book if you're thinking of long-term travel. Vagabonding. I mean, put it up or something. But what, I mean, I read it on an island in Cambodia.

And it just blew my mind. It got me so deep into travel, but you're thinking of going, like putting everything, we're going for a month to a year. That's your book. It's a little tiny book. It's a Bible. I can't find it.

I have a copy. I can't fucking find it. Easy reading will get you wanting to go. Now, here's another book that just came out last year called The Vagabond's Way. It is different. It's if you've already traveled, if you're already like places, it's just a kind of a page a day. Easy going through. It's not like a long narrative. It's just a page a day with a quote about travel and about a specific part of the travel experience. Meeting strangers, getting lost, things

like that. Spend at least one full day walking someplace new. No place is timeless, in part because you're there. Wilderness imbues a journey with perspective. Luxury diversions can provide a travel timeout. Travel first, then if you want, become a digital nomad. Become an ex-patriot at some point in your travel life. Wow. Travel offers new perspectives on the familiar. Yeah, it's just a page a day with a quote.

Life isn't short, we just waste it. We waste it wishing for things to be otherwise. We waste it by ignoring what's in front of us. I am holiday, never wish away a minute of your life. Whoa, Jesus, the most indelible memory I have of the bicycle journey I took across Myanmar in my late 20s, it involves a nighttime ferry ride across

the Irrawaddy River. I've been on that river. Since the journey involved a number of river crossings and places that didn't appear on my map, I'm not sure where exactly I was. All I knew was that in the dim light with the stars glowing above and the moon glittering across the water, I felt unmoored from the past and future. Fully present. I felt fully alive. Perhaps it was because I wasn't exactly sure where I was when this happened that I recall that I recall it as a special moment in my life.

I have since come to realize that travel is not the only time I can feel this way. Dick Nott Hahn's 1975 book, The Miracle of Mindfulness, asserts that even a task so ordinary as washing dishes could be an exercise of being fully alive. At first glance, that might seem a little silly. He wrote, why put so much stress on simple things? But that's precisely the point.

The fact that I'm standing there and watching these bulls is a wondrous reality. Ever since reading this, now back to him, I have come to regard the act of washing my own dishes as a kind of homebound traveled exercise, a reminder that life itself is an ongoing journey. And the ever present goal of the traveler is to appreciate the simple and eternal resonance of whatever task is before him." That was just December 9th.

Every day is a different thing. I am quoted in this. It's a bookmark from the Ljubljana Castle in Slovenia. I go places guys. I buy things wherever I go. There's my White's Wall. I'm putting this back up get the vagabond's way right now It's available. It should be available on audiobook, right? It's definitely available on paperback No, because I'm holding a copy. This is an advanced copy If you don't know roll for my old skeptic today, what's those listen to them? The first one we did was just all I think called vagabonding In Tompkins Square Park. We did The first one we did was just all, I think called Vagabonding in Tompkins Square Park.

The last one we did was in Paris, all over Paris. And I videoed that. I mean, that would be the perfect type of podcast for this podcast. I mean, the first episode, all around Paris, the Luxembourg Gardens, right near the Louvre. We did it in front of the Louvre on a bridge over the Seine. God, that was a good one.

I gotta import that. Why waste it? Anyway, pick up The Vagabond's Way right now. Also the book called Souvenir is pretty good, but that's like coffee table reading. And he has a podcast called Deviate with Rolf Paz. Oh shoot, we gotta get back to the episode. It's been six minutes.

Anyway, I just wanted to tell you about it and all this thing I got this Shiki Puma I got it in Guatemala this one I got it in like Oaxaca or Merida northern Mexico nope nope nope sorry this is a Chinese magnifying glass I got it in China I think Shanghai I think Shanghai not Beijing yeah I used it in China. I think Shanghai. I think Shanghai, not Beijing. Yeah, I used it to find general awards on my pubis. Sometimes you can get confused with ingrown hairs. When they were coming, which they were every few months for about four straight years, got in the way of my sex life for sure. I wanted to know if I just had an ingrown hair,

just sort of like bump, a random bump, or if it was a general war. The Chinese magnifying glass is the way to go. Guys, don't forget that pre-sale on this Wednesday, October 16th, general sale on Friday, and then from then on, all those cities. Let's get back to the episode. Buy Rolf's book, sign up for his podcast, DVA. I've been on there multiple times, a great one about souvenirs. I gotta listen to so I can mark all these souvenirs.

Let's get back to the episode. Syria, take us there, Rolf Potts. I mean, it's sort of a dictatorship there. Was it then? Yeah, it was the father, Hafez Assad had almost died. He died like within a year of my visit, and then one of his sons has taken over since then. Do you think it's related to your visit?

Yeah. I don't think so, I don't think so. But it was so weird that like back then it was the bathys. It was like the old socialist model of Arab nationalism. Like Nasser in Egypt did this. And so instead of like an Islamist cultural identity, it was, I think they maybe aligned themselves with the Soviets when the Soviet Union was a thing.

And of course the Soviet Union was gone by 1990, not for more than 10 years, but they still sort of had, people were walking around sort of wearing olive drab sweaters. And the propaganda was sort of old Soviet block style propaganda. So it's weird, this conversation is gonna be about travel in place, but also travel in time,

because I went to a version of Syria that doesn't exist but I suspect Syrians are Syrians and I thought Syrians were great. Wow. Like, yeah, friendly people. Yeah. Smiley. So we're talking about like Russians don't misread it, they just don't smile so they're not mad at you,

they just don't smile. Well, I mean Arab cultures are famously hospitable. Hospitality is one of the pillars of Islam. Abraham. Although, yeah. But I mean, it's multicultural. I mean, I think Syria was like 10% Christian, and there's different sects of Islam.

And in fact, the Assad family is Alawite. They're not Shia or Sunni. They're a different kind of Muslim. Oh, wow. Bath is also Iraq, wasn't it? Wasn't that Saddam's party? Was it the Ba'ath party? Yeah.

Sorry I said Egypt, but the Ba'athist Yowt is Iraq. They all had a little bit different flavor of it. I think they had this idea to create sort of this Arab supernation. But of course, nobody was on board for that. Dude, my half brother was a captain in the army, I think a captain, his job was to get a provisional government in Afghanistan after the war.

And it took a year of negotiation between the Sunnis, the Shiites and the Muslims, on which percentage should be on whatever. Well, Sunnis and Shiites are Muslims. Okay, well, whatever, I don't know. Does that say Sunnis, Shiites, or Republicans? Afghanistan is a bunch of tribes. So everybody speaks a different language. And so just the idea of a nation state is a pretty new idea.

It's like a 19th century thing. It's like Europeans drawing a map. And it's like, this is going to be a nation state. This is going to be a nation state. So Afghanistan makes no sense. Well, he's been over it. Anywhere there's a straight line, that's a made up border.

These curvy ones are like, oh, a river, that makes sense. Or a mountain range or something. But like straight line was like some guy in a war room in London was like, it's here. Robert Byron said, there's something absurd about a land border. And actually this came up in Syria because, let's see, I went up into this corner

because that was a time when Iraq seemed really exotic because the war hadn't happened that long before. And so I just wanted to go to the Tigris River and sort of look into Iraq. Oh, cool. And so I was sitting in the market or wherever in Comishli, which is this town that's up by Turkey and Iraq.

And actually I quote this in the vagab wherever and commissionally, which is this town that's up by Turkey and Iraq. And actually I quote this in the vagabond's way, the taxi drivers are like, yeah, no. Borders are things that exist in the minds of bureaucrats. You wanna taxi ride to Damascus, I can take you there. You give me 50 bucks, you know. Whoa. They drove Ford Escorts too.

Like for some reason, the smugglers drove Ford Escorts 24 years ago. They're just like, we'll just do it. And border towns, and that's a river border. and the smugglers drove Ford escorts 24 years ago. They're just like, we'll just do it. And border towns, and that's a river border. So you actually have to cross the Tigris to get into, well, actually, no, you can cross the land border here. Yeah, weird.

And so it's just, I hung out with a dude who smuggled rubber sandals into Iraq for a living. That's what he did. Why would they not allow that? I mean, taxes maybe. I think like in Bargos maybe, maybe there was some sort of European rubber sandals that weren't getting there because of some sort of,

like, I don't know how far you wanna get into the weeds this soon, but like this is back in the day of the no fly zone. And so the Kurdish part of Iraq bordered on that part of Syria. And so I hung out with Kurds the whole time. So it was different. When I was in Damascus, I was hanging out with Syrian Arabs, but Sudanese refugees.

And then when I was on the border, I was hanging out with Kurds because Kurdistan is a place that didn't really win the nation state game. There's never been a Kurdistan nation, because after World War I, they split up the Middle East, and they decided not to make a Kurdish nation. The cultural area is the size of Texas, and it stretches into Iran and Iraq and Syria and Turkey. But the no-fly zone that the first George Bush established after the Gulf War meant that Saddam couldn't go up and kill the Kurds

in Northern Iraq. So for at least 10 years, Northern Iraq, they could just do what they wanted. And so I was hanging out with these Kurds in Northern Syria, and then these magazines that showed like the Kurdish basketball league in Northern Iraq, like they were very American influenced back then.

And so I think just a lot of aid was happening back then and Saddam couldn't touch them. And so they were just doing their own thing. You know, you let, leave people to their own devices and they start basketball leagues and, you know. It is cool to see when it's like, hey, what would you be if not for interference? Yeah, yeah.

If you didn't, if you weren't trying to be repressed by somebody else whose geopolitical aims are in this part of the place. When I was in Myanmar, we were in some northern city and it was like, we saw some stores and some cool people like kind of like graffitiing it on the inside. But it was like their store, like, what is this? And they were like fashion store.

It was like the first like, oh, you guys are just getting non-functional clothing. Congratulations. Right. Way to go. Yeah. No. And that's, that's not a great thing that you see when you travel these places. Most people don't give a shit about the geopolitical situation. They want to put a Batman symbol on their car or you scared it all go in there. Not really. How old are you in this? I was 29, 29. Not scared. Not scared because all these backpackers

were coming back out of Syria and saying, go up to the mountains, there's this monastery. And you have to walk the last 20 minutes and crawl into a three foot door, but it's cool and it's free. And all you have to do is shovel goat shit for a while. What do you mean, to work there? Yeah.

What? It's an exchange, a hospitality exchange. It's nominally a Christian monastery, but it's more of like a little hippie encampment. It was founded by an Italian monk in the 1980s. It's called Deer Marmosa up in the hills above Damascus, actually. And then if you look at that map.

Yeah. Do you have any pictures of that? Or what? Where am I going? Oh, the monastery. Wait, where is this called? I'll look it up. Deer Marmosa what? Where am I going? Oh, the monastery. Wait, where is this called? I'll look it up. Deer Marmosa, is that what you said?

Deer Marmosa, yeah, I'm not sure if it'll show up. D-E-I-R space, M-A-R space, M-U-S-A. Yeah, El Nabuc, yeah. That's not it? No, that's it. Whoa. Yeah, that's it. Literally, I stayed there. Yeah. El Nabuc. Yeah. That's not it. No, that's it. Whoa.

Yeah. That's it. Literally I stayed there. Whoa. So. What? You stayed in there? Yeah.

God damn, that's cool. What is this carved into the fucking mountain? It's carved in the mountains. And actually that is more finished than when I was there. So they were still building that when I was there. And I stayed like in this little place that was above where the goat stayed and it smelled like goat shit, but it was free.

And it was a bunch of dirt bag backpackers. And it's funny because all the backpackers knew about it. Christian monks are obligated to give hospitality, whoever asks. And so they just had this total channel of dipshit backpackers. I say dipshit, but they, they were, they admit well. You're obligated, huh? You got to. You got commands. And so they just had all these. And so like there was a Swiss guy who decided he wanted to live in a cave and like renounce his possessions.

The monks are sort of like, okay, yeah, there's a, there's a Swiss hermit living in a cave and we're going to humor him. But yeah, no, this is, this is the Italian guy went there in the eighties and he restored this place. And it was like Moses, the Ethiopian or somebody's dear Marmosa. Musa means Moses. Um, and he was restoring the old frescoes and, Oh really? That was just like passion. Syria is just a mix of everything. There's, there's multiple Christian cultures,

multiple Muslim cultures, um, and multiple languages. It's the crossroads of the world. It's this Silk Route. And so you could stay there for free. I wash dishes and I shovel goat shit and chicken shit. And then there's no electricity there. So you have oil lamps after dark. There's like Korean backpackers and Argentine backpackers

and like people from the village, Muslims in the village were hanging out. Like the monk, his mission was like Cross religious understanding, you know Yeah so they had a lot of conversations between the Christians and and the Muslims and it was just sort of this little hippie camp that was just in the middle of nowhere a Syria was a little drugs there

Was that people doing drugs there backpackers? It must have been hash around. Probably, I wasn't aware of it at the time. I actually mentioned this place in Vagabonding because there was some backpacker, I say that she was from Canada, but she wasn't really from Canada. I give her anonymity, but she's like,

she refused to go to the church services. And it's like, so you hiked, you like drove way up into the mountains, you walked 20 minutes and you crawled through a little door and you're staying with these monks, but you don't want to be influenced by Christianity so you're not gonna go to the church services. It just seemed like a weird thing.

Like back in Canada, sure, yeah, there's religious people who are telling you what to do, but you've come all the way to this monastery and you're going to say, oh no, I'm above religion, really? It's also so funny that the religion you come from, you're like, I'm not doing that. But then if some weird like 2000 year old, well that is Christianity, but some ancient thing,

like we have this thing you've never heard of, like I'll do it, what do I have to do? It's very incensed, like I'm down. But your own religion, you're like, fuck that, I'm out of that. Totally, now you know how to talk to this about it in the context of Buddhism, which is there's so many Judeo-Christian Buddhists in Southeast Asia where they go in and it's better than Christianity

or Judaism, but they sort of have that same sort of rigid attitude toward it. Or they sort of have a hippie-dippie. People screw up religion. Travelers screw up religion in so many ways. And I like to think to be open-minded about it. But that was my point in vagabond is that this woman wasn to be open-minded about it. But that was my point in vagabond is that this woman wasn't being open-minded. She was being closed-minded. Like, sure, back in Alberta, religious people are overbearing, but you've come all this way.

These aren't Canadian Christians. These are like Syrian Christians, and there's interfaith dialogue going on. And so really, you're going to refuse to go to the church service. Hi, guys. Today's episode of You Be Trippin' is refuse to go to the church service. Hi guys, today's episode of You Be Trippin' is brought to you by prettylitter.com. Have you ever walked into your friend's house or apartment, if you live in New York it's an apartment, and you open the door and immediately revolted because they have a disgusting smelling cat and they don't have the proper kitty litter? It's literally every cheap person I know. The same people that use that scott tissue paper that's fucking see-through and it feels like cardboard.

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See Mint Mobile for details. Was anybody, okay, toilets were holes I assume. Toilets were holes. There was no refrigerator. There was no electricity. So it was really cool. They had like a little screened in cabinet. And so when they would fix something

that you would normally refrigerate, you don't save it for a week, but you may save it for a day. And it's behind a fly screen. And so it's room temperature, but it's behind a fly screen so the insects don't get to it. I saw a thing on why flies are more disgusting than you think, because you're like, oh, some flies. They're just eating my food.

It's like, they're not. They're vomiting up bile that disintegrates it. And then if you oh, supplies, they're just eating my food. It's like, they're not, they're vomiting up bile that disintegrates it. And then if you threw them away, that bile still, it's like way grosser than just a dog taking a bite out of your stuff. Right, yeah, so I guess we have our refrigerated food. So the supplies couldn't get on there.

That's pretty cool. Any hooking up there with these backpackers? It seems out of place to do that, but I assume also. I was sort of non-sexual in Syria. I just didn't really come to mind much. Um, in the Islamic world in general, I wasn't really, even like with other backpackers, I wasn't really looking to hook up or anything. Um, I'm sure there was some hooking up.

And I'm not sure how they dealt with couples. I know that in other parts of the Islamic world, they were really nervous if you were a non-married couple staying in a hotel. And even once, it was in Cairo. I was staying in a hotel and a Norwegian backpacker friend went to hang out with me in my room. And the proprietor was really nervous

because he thought we were gonna have unmarital sex or something. And so it's funny, having very religious cultures, they don't really understand. They think that because it's more sexually permissive in the West that sex always happens all the time in the West.

And the Westerners are just like hot to trot constantly. Yeah, it's like, no, we're just talking. We're just planning out our thing. But also like could be right. Could be right. But yeah, it was sort of an asexual situation for me. I wasn't, that wasn't what I had on the mind. What'd you get food wise here?

Lentils, homemade cheese, honey, pita, just great, fantastic Middle Eastern food, olives. They fed you or you had to pay for it? No, they fed us. And some of the volunteers helped cook, helped clean. How long did you stay here for? Probably just three or four nights.

And one funny thing I learned is almost like a parable about what it's like to be in a place where backpackers are constantly turning through or any travelers are constantly turning through. They put me in this little hut near the goat pens and a St. Bernard had just given birth to puppies outside the thing and she kept growling on me every time I would walk home. Walk to the place where I was staying. I kept telling the monks, you gotta move the St. Bernard because she's growling at me

because her puppies are right there. You have to move her and her puppies or have them stay someplace. They're like, oh, it's okay. Because I was sort of a ghost to them. Sure, I was there for a couple of days, but they knew her, the dog, much better than me. Like we're not moving our friend for you, you idiot.

Exactly, no. You're just free-bidding. They cared way more for the St. Bernard than me. And then one day the dog bit me and I walk up to the main guy bleeding into my socks. It's like, I told you the dog would bit me. And so then actually it wasn't until, if I would have written a story,

it would have been the dog that made me human because I was like a ghost until it bit me. And then it's like, oh yeah, sorry. And so they cleaned out my wound and they remembered my name after that. But that makes sense because in a sense, it means a lot to you. It's like it was probably the three most interesting days of my year that year, staying in this

crazy monastery in the mountains above Damascus. But for them, I was just another dude, just another pasty dude that was shuttling through and sort of speaking in superlatives. And they were probably just happy I didn't, you know, sell my possessions and live in a cave next to the Swiss guy. But at the end of the day, giving hospitality, and monks, a lot of monastic writing talks about this, is that it's not easy to give hospitality. And there's this old joke where God says, He gives an edict that you must give hospitality to strangers because think of it as the impersonization, as the embodiment of Jesus, like treat all guests as Christ. And one of these monks, you know, he said to his superiors,

like, oh, Jesus, is it you again? You know, like another freaking Jesus is showing up. Yeah, after a while, Jesus would be like, hey, dude, you're getting my nerves now. Thanks for dying for our sins, but you're milking it. Yeah. And you read a lot of accounts, travel writing, of pilgrims who traveled during that time, and they rave about the monks. I would love to read the monks back in the day. It's like, oh yeah, another bunch of rich Europeans coming through in the 12th century.

We've got to feed them, and they're gonna talk about how much they love Jesus, and yada, yada, yada. I went to the church of the Holy Sepulcher a few years ago, and those guys, they're doing the chains with the incense, and there's all these tourists taking pictures and they're so pissed. They're like, they want to say it,

get out of the fucking way. But instead they just bash them with the incense thing. And they're just like, move. Even though that's their only clothe because those people are coming in and paying. Yeah, now there's some serious grumpiness going on in the church of the holy sepulchre. That's an amazing place.

Not in Syria, but close. But... So, okay, so you go there, who'd you meet? Are these pictures from there or are these pictures from another place? Yeah, they're all mixed up. So this is when I took a taxi. I was trying to take a taxi to the Tigris River

because I just wanted to look into Iraq. This was back when Iraq was really exotic. This was before the 2003 war. So I just wanted to look, this was back when Iraq was really exotic, this was before the 2003 war. So I just wanted to look in this forbidden country. And so this dude, this was like an old Buick with suicide doors and like some sort of- Where do suicide ones go up? Suicide doors are when the door handles are on the same side.

So the back seat has the handle on the right and the front seat has on the left and so you open it up. I don't know why they're called suicide doors. But it was like some, like, and this was the beginning of this theory and the front seat has on the left and so you open it up. I don't know why they're called suicide doors. But it was like some, like, and this was the beginning of this theory that like everybody in the world has a cousin in New Jersey.

Yeah. Like I was driving across the wastelands, like I was way up in the corner of Syria and this guy is making conversation in his limited English and he showed me a picture of like his cousin lived in New Jersey. Really? Yeah.

It's amazing how people get here. Yeah, and it's not just New Jersey, but there's a lot of international people in New Jersey, the greater New York area. And so middle of nowhere Syria, somehow this guy had family in New Jersey. Damn. And so yeah, so that guy drove me to the Tigris River.

They were sort of a non-event, but I took a, this is a selfie before selfie. That's a film camera selfie. A picture I took of myself. You just, oh my gosh. I have long arms. You look so fucking young there. Yeah. Look at those kissable lips.

Right. I was not, I was still in my twenties. I was just barely in my twenties. Damn, that's cool. You did all this alone, huh? Yeah, I was solo the whole time. Yeah, so these solo the whole time. Yeah, so these are the Kurds that I met up in Qamishli.

I mean, if not for your smile, this is a hostage video. These guys were amazing though. This is, the guy on the right is Khalid. I actually studied my notes before I came here. All right. Khalid is like a banana vendor and he's like, I can get you to Iraq. You want to go to Iraq?

I'll take you to Iraq. And I'm like, really? And he's like, yes. And so the K. You want to go to Iraq? I'll take you to Iraq. And I'm like, really? And he's like, yes. And so the KDP, which is like the Kurdish political party, which has a stronger presence in Iraq, but also an office in Syria. He like takes me to the office of the KDP commishly. And he's like, this is my friend Rolf.

And he wants to go to Iraq. Can we take him there? And like the guy behind the desk is like, Khalid, you're a banana vendor. He didn't say this, but that was sort of the vibe I got. It's like, I think it's cool that you can take your American friend here, but I'm not gonna take this dipshit into Iraq.

Not to come back. Just because he's your friend. Yeah, relax, bro. He's this cool guy. That's the guy Khalid is, he's the one who showed me the basketball of like the, or the magazine of the basketball league in Northern Iraq, in Kurdish Iraq.

Where because of that flyover zone, it's almost like metaphorically, it's like the DMZ in Korea has all this wildlife because no people have been there for 50 years, more than 50 years, like all the trees have grown back and all these crazy wildlife. Well, you have a no-fly zone over Iraq for 10 years and basketball leagues pop up.

No-fly zone, so what does that mean? They just couldn't? Well, that meant that Saddam couldn't take heavy military expeditions into Northern Iraq or else they'd get bombed by American Air Force. And so the no-fly zone just meant that good luck trying to have a major military presence. Basically it meant Americans were protecting the Kurds

from Iraq when Saddam was still around. And because, I guess, we were trying to sort of normalize certain American ideas, they were promoting, I'm sure the State Department helped fund this magazine, but it was about basically the Kurdish YMCA and their basketball league. I wish I had a copy of this because I tell this story a lot.

How did it be all guards? I mean, 5'11 must be a center there. Actually, not really. I think Kurds, it's not like East Asia where people are shorter on average that, well, those guys are pretty short. Yeah. God, first of all, sick jacket on, what's his name?

Khalid? Khalid, yeah, yeah. Super sick jacket. Also, banana, what is what's his name? Khalid? Khalid, yeah. Super sick jacket. Also banana, what is he? Banana what? He sells bananas. No, what'd you call him? Banana what?

Banana vendor. Banana vendor. Sounds sexual. Sounds like a fucking badass slayer. If your porn starts on your business card. Amateur banana vendor, professional fucking Walmart reader. Dan, that's so cool. Did you have one of these candy bars? I did, maybe, maybe I don't.

The thing of it is, is that like the candy bars aren't the draw there. Like the food, like the strawberries or the bananas were okay, but like the, the, the fool and the falafel, like all that Middle Eastern food was amazing and dirt cheap. What's fool? Super cheap. Fool is like those, those big ass beans.

F-U-U-L, I think is how they transliterate it. But it's just like big hearty Middle Eastern beans. And it's great for backpackers because it costs like 40 cents for a giant bowl of spicy beans. I don't know what kind of garbanzo... I don't know what kind of beans they are. Somali style fava beans, Somali. Oh, is it fava beans?

Yeah. And then what Hamill Lectern ate his victim with. Yeah, you could be Ethiopian, I don't know, but they had, I ate fool all over the Arabic Middle East. And actually I had sheep's brain sandwiches. No, really? Have you had a sheep's brain sandwich before? Not a sandwich, I had one cow brain one time

at a place in LA on Fairfax. Oh, okay. I had it, it was like, I think it was called Animal. But like, yeah, it's gooey, not gooey, but like jiggly. Yeah, it felt like, it sort of like was jello-y in my experience, that there was sort of no substance to the sheep's, and I only got it because it was a sheep's brain sandwich.

Like I had all these options. It's like, I'm gonna eat this sandwich so I have a story to tell. Will you do that? Will you see a food? I'm like, well, I gotta try this. I'm not gonna be back. Yeah, no, I ate bondagi, which is silkworms,

when I was in Korea. I ate boshintang, which is sort of a dog meat stew when I was in Korea. And it's like, I had to have the sheep's brain sandwich because now I can talk about the sheep's brain sandwich that I ate in Damascus. There's also like a strawberry smoothie, like the fruit was really good.

Oh my God, I'm like, my mouth is watering. So I'm sure those candy bars are fine, but the food was amazing. I mean, it was good. The Aleppo sandwich, the flavors of it. And actually this is something I found in other parts of the world, poor countries, countries that don't have a lot of industrial output

often times have great food. Like my sister went to Moldova, which is close to your ancestral homeland. And she said the salads were amazing. Like the salads and soups in Moldova were just lights out. I was talking to my mom about this. My dad just got his Romanian passport. No kidding.

After maybe five years of trying a lot of that, the COVID like they was close and they were like, it is so you can get an EU passport. So I put it in his mind. Cause I'm like, hey, I found out they have a right to return for any child. I'm like, dad, you got help me out here. It opens up everything for me.

He just got it. But I was talking to my mom about it. She goes, Romanian food is terrible. Nobody talks about it. I'm like, it's just not known. He just got it. But I was talking to my mom about it. She goes, Romanian food is terrible. Nobody talks about it. I'm like, it's just not known. There's great food. It's just not known. And at this stuff, it's like, it's just what's known

and what's like unknown, but still awesome. Yeah, no, Siri had great fruit. I mean, not all the fruit. Fried sheep's brain. Oh, is that fried sheep's brain? Yeah, was it fried when you had it? Or was it some other way? No, I think maybe it was boiled.

But it sort of looked like, this has been 24 years ago, Ari, I'm not, I remember the presence of, I don't know, the fact that I ate it more than the actual experience of it, it's like I was almost writing it down in my journal as I was eating it because I was just so excited to be eating, yeah, that's what it looks like.

That's what it looked like. That looks like it, for sure. Was looks like. That's what it looks like. Oh, that looks like it. Yeah, yeah. For sure. Yeah. Was it good? You remember? It was okay. It didn't make me crave sheep's brain sandwiches,

but it was dirt cheap. You seem honest enough too, where it's like, okay, so you're gonna have some weird thing, like I'll never get this again, gotta try it. Right. You seem honest enough to go, this was fucking wild, I loved it. This was like, eh.

Yeah. And this was one of those, we're like, it's fine. This was like, eh. And this was one of those, really, it's fine. This was fine. It wasn't disgusting and it wasn't particularly good. Like when I was in Thailand, not to keep bouncing all over the place, but I had like some fried grasshoppers. But I think they'd been cooked in like chicken fat

or something, they were delicious. It was like eating chicken skin. And then I got some crickets and it was like, these are disgusting. So you just never know when you're eating weird food, you never know what's gonna be good. Sheep's brain is maybe a C minus, it was fine. Damn, okay, cool, cool, cool.

What else did you get into? In food wise or just? Just overall, yeah, I don't know. Yeah, if there's more food you wanna tell me about, otherwise, it's like. We're getting a little un-chronological here. One reason why Con Air, I will always have a place in my heart for the movie Con Air,

is that I took the jet bus from, it's J-E-T-T, it's Jordanian something, from Amman, Jordan to Damascus, Syria. It was like a $5 bus, air conditioning, and they play movies. And they played Con Air, I'd never seen it before. Have you seen Con Air? Yeah, I have. Yeah, it's Air, I'd never seen it before. Have you seen Con Air?

Yeah, I have. Yeah, it's like, as if you take every action movie that was ever made and it creates an algorithm that just creates the cliche after cliche. It's a delightful movie. It really is. Even though the Steve Buscemi, who's the most unsettling character.

He's like the Hannibal Lecter. Yeah, he does stuff to children. There was just a girl like, oh, please don't. And then it's like, okay, she didn't get, it's okay, we didn't do that. Yeah, no, you almost expect him to be Hannibal Lecter, but he's the voice of reason in that movie. He actually makes some decent observations in that movie.

But what was so delightful is that there's an ironic level at which you can see Conair. And so I was laughing. Yeah. And everybody in this, all the Syrians in the bus, they were watching it translated and they're just watching an action movie. They weren't jaded. They weren't like jaded hipsters sort of making fun of it. Whereas I was laughing because it is a funny movie. I mean, it's, it's actually, it's a delightful movie, but-

Funny I saw when it came out and I was like sick and then like all those movies like eight years later, like this is ridiculous. It's totally ridiculous. Yeah. He's landing on the sun strip in Vegas. It's so enjoyable. Yeah. And the fact that I was laughing and the Syrians returning and looking like, okay, not sure why he's laughing.

Is this mistranslated? They were sort of rooting for the, you know, Nick Cage character. And then pretty soon they were like handing me their babies and giving me food. Like I was Mr. Personality. Like I was having so much fun with this movie that to this day, Con Air, the movie reminds me of taking the bus to Damascus. And so that was my entrees, that basically I met like 30 Syrians because I thought Con Air was hilarious.

And they were cheering, at the end of the movie when Nick Cage lands a plane on the Vegas Strip and Steve Buscemi gets away or whatever, they were so excited, they were into it. Whoa. I love that they play movies on these buses. And it's just like, it harkens back to the planes when it was like, the movie will start in 45 minutes,

the movie, not like your choice of movies. And everyone's like, you better be on this. Have you ever seen a movie in a weird place and you sort of remember a place because of the movie? Yeah, when I got to Myanmar, I got this hat where I first read your book. Nice, nice. I might have been wearing this hat.

We went to see, I forgot the name of it, but it was based on a video game and it was like Knights of the Templar. This guy was like scaling walls and stuff. God damn, I wish I knew. But yeah, we went to see it and it was like, of the Templar. This guy was like scaling walls and stuff. God damn, I wish I knew. But yeah, we went to see it and it was like, it's burning my mind. They serve kettle corn popcorn instead of regular popcorn.

Everyone's talking, it's a date night because it's air conditioning. It's the only place with air conditioning. People were sleeping in there and it wasn't like weird. It was such a nothing movie that I can't remember it, but I will always associate it with that place. It's funny, everybody was talking because you forget that these movies,

people are watching them on the subtitles. I watched Titanic in the Philippines. Wow. And there was people, like, there was a woman reading, she probably knew English, but she was like reading the Tagalog subtitles, but like explaining the subtitles to her grandma in her tribal language.

And so perhaps the movie, I'm like, would you shut up? Like I'm thinking in my mind, would you shut up? But in fact, it was like this family experience where she's like helping grandma understand things. Actually, I saw it not to get off on a tangent, but when I was hitchhiking across Eastern Europe, I saw some art movie in like Budapest. And my Hungarian friends were translating

who I'd met that day, were trying to translate the movie for me as it was going. And so I was like the other Hungarians in the cinema are like, we can read the subtitles. Why are you talking? Well, they were reading the Hungarian subtitles to the American. And it's fun.

It's fun how communal movies can be like movie cinemas can be kind of cool communal places. But this wasn't even a cinema, it was a bus. And so to this day, I'll always think of Syria when I watch Con Air. I love the idea of them cheering, like, really getting into it. Yeah, no, I think there was this sort of guilelessness

that there's probably fewer entertainments in Syria in general, but they were just excited. They were watching, it was like an old-fashioned, it was like watching a movie when the sound came around in the 1930s, they were just excited. They were watching, it was like an old fashioned, it was like watching a movie when the sound came around in the 1930s, they were just into it. They were all in. Were there black people in Syria? Oh, this is another thing.

This is actually really interesting. I was walking through the Christian quarter of Damascus and I heard gospel music, like American gospel music. And these aren't Americans, they're Syrian refugees. And so I walked into this church and it's like, actually I felt homesick because it reminded me of, you know, the gospel music I would hear sometimes when I was growing up.

Syrian refugees where? In Damascus. So the Syrian civil war was going on. This was before South, I'm sorry, not Syrian, Sudan, Sudanese. Okay. So South Sudan hadn't broken off yet. And so black Sudan was. Oh, okay. So Sudan, South Sudan hadn't broken off yet. And so black Sudan was fighting against Arab Sudan.

And the refugees, Syria took in all these refugees. And so on the street- Wow, and now we won't take their refugees. Yeah. No, it's crazy that literally on the street, I would go uphill and I would hang out in a cafe with the Syrian Muslims. I would go down the street and hang out

with my Syrian Christian friends. I think a lot of these people resettled in Canada. And it was amazing. These people are amazing travelers that basically they spoke multiple languages. They'd been living between places for years. They didn't know where they're gonna live the next day. This guy was clearly a Yankees fan.

Clearly Yankee fan. Yeah. Those infants are now in their mid-20s probably now. And as a good Christian or Muslim culture, these happen to be Christian, they were very hospitable. They thought it was weird that an American wanted into their church service. How'd they get into gospel music?

That's a good question. Maybe because, well, Christianity is sort of a global religion. Yeah. And so maybe missionaries or maybe there's a big American influence on them. I mean, the message is lovely in gospel music. So it's like that translates to whatever you like Jesus. Well, I think gospel music was very heavily African-American, so I'm not sure if they identify with like sort of the African-American side of American Christianity. But I saw there was a hymnal that had a hymn called

"'I Get So Thrilled With Jesus'." And it's like, that's gotta be a gospel song. Like what kind of old German person is gonna write a song called, "'I Get So Thrilled With Jesus'." And so literally I felt homesick hearing gospel songs. And so I walked into this, this is a great thing about not having too rigid of a plan. It's like, I was walking through the Christian quarter of Damascus. I heard a gospel song.

And it's like, whatever I was going to do, I'm not going to do anymore. I'm going to go in and see what's going on in this church service. Yeah. I guess talk about that for a second. This is not like your travel exactly, but like an overall like idea of travel of like, of like changing plans at the drop of a hat. Yeah, yeah. You're great at it. I've just like, oh, new plan. Yeah, some days better than others. Sure. Okay, that's fair. It's easier to it's easier to preach it than to live it. Yeah,

because sometimes you really do want to get the things on your checklist. Yeah, but I was wandering through the city and I was also really involved. I was still writing my travel column for salon.com. This is before Vagabonding. And so I was sort of looking for stories. And so maybe there's an extent to which it's like, well, the worst that can happen is I have an interesting story to tell.

That's nice, actually, for a way to get you moving. It's like, this could be a story. I know comics do that. It's going to suck. It'll turn into a bit. If it sucks, it'll be a bit. And you're like, all right. I guess it's at least like creatively tax deductible.

You know? Yeah. Totally, totally. And I think that's both something we have in our toolkits as travelers is that at the very least, we have a story that will result in it. That's why I tried to buy a donkey in Egypt and that was in Marco Polo and Go there, my second book. But I never did write about this,

but this is the service they had. Wow. And they shared it with like a Greek Orthodox church. So like there's only so many, like the local Christians shared their church with the refugee Christians, even though they were different sect. So these are probably Protestants.

And it was like a Greek Orthodox church, but they had some band music and it was really interesting. I often say that these guys put most American travelers to shame, not because they've been on the best beaches or fly in jets, but because they've been wandering the Earth as refugees by this point for multiple years. We have these refugees in my neighborhood now. They showed up in October.

A line around the block of dark, just like these guys, dark black people. I thought it was a casting call. Oh, no kidding. They're just like a line around the block of just like these guys, dark black people. I thought it was a casting call. Oh, no kidding. They're just like a line. It was like, they were never. Do you know where they're from? Are they from Sudan or?

Mauritania, some. Oh, interesting. It took a while and I'm like, wait, they're here every day. And now they're actually being processed, they're refugees. Right. And now the, like the area is kind of like split on the neighborhoods, like, well, who are these people, are these homeless? And it's like, no, they're not homeless. And if you talk to, they don't all speak English,

but if you talk to any of them, it's like what you're saying, like no, no, no, they're like, I fled, I was gonna get arrested in the middle of the night, I fled because I was trying to topple my government. These aren't guys that are like, I'm just poor. I'm not a drug addict, but it's like they have stories to tell.

I'm trying to get to talk to them slowly. Yeah. You know? And they're travelers like us, but 10 times as much. I mean, obviously they haven't gone to as many places, but they've had to hustle. They've had to make... They never crossed a river in the middle of the night to get over a land border. Seriously.

Yeah. It's hardcore. That's the only picture I have from the monastery. Isn't that crazy? Those are the old frescoes. That's the old hundreds of years old. This is like the Kurds in commission. Let me stay at their house.

A guy named Majid, he had like eight kids. He's like Saddam Hussein killed 200,000 Kurds and so I've had eight kids. I'm trying to repopulate. Anyway, I just, again, hospitality in the Muslim world, they fed me their best lentils, they, I stayed in a guest room. Crazy thing is that I didn't meet any of the female members of the family. I was in their house, but by the Muslim strictures, I was not a family member. I think maybe they came in, I saw them when they were bringing food in, but I didn't really interact with the women.

So it was very traditional yet very friendly. And it was sort of a blessing for them. They don't get a chance to meet, obviously, very many Americans. And so I was sort of this goofball who slept on their floor for a night. Wow, yeah, Zane had that story about meeting one of the daughters and realizing,

he's like, oh shit, they have intentions. They have what? Intentions for me. Oh, yeah, yeah. Oh, okay, right, yeah. Well, Zayn, our friend Zayn is part Syrian. His mom is Syrian. Yeah, that's right, that's right.

Yeah, but it's multicultural in a way. It's just the crossroads of the world. People have been coming through. In fact, you read travel writers, Ibn Battuta, the great, the Marco Polo of the Arab world in the 13th century, he mentions Damascus. And he mentioned there's, it's either him or Benjamin of Tudela, the Jewish Marco Polo.

There's like 3000 Jews in Damascus when he was there. So it's just, it's always been a multicultural city. It's always been the crossroads of several continents, of three continents. Yeah, they always said like, there's like a misconception about like Iran, where they're like, they hate Jews. And it's like, they kind of more hate Zionists, but there's tons of Jews who live peacefully there.

I don't know if it's still, but to a recent past, they were like, yeah, as long as you're not like into taking over like that one city, you love you, you're fine. Yeah, it's the Sephardic folks. And yeah, I mean, that's more 20th century geopolitics actually, just what happened to the Jewish communities in all of these parts of the world. And in commissionally in that city where we were talking about the NBA,

some guys at the table claimed there were Jews in commissionally. I never met them, but there were Christians, there were several sects of Christians and different kinds of Muslims hanging out with me. They claimed that they were Jews or that there were Jews? They claimed there were Jews in this little town on the border of Turkey and Syria.

The ones with the glasses. Right. Right. The bald ones with the glasses. It's like, it's probably them. Did you ever feel bad staying in a place like this and like eating their food as like a, to them anyway, a rich American,

even though you're a backpacker? Oh, this happens everywhere in the world that it's easy to feel guilty because you could afford a hundred times this, you know? Yeah. But especially in cultures that value hospitality, it's a blessing for them, you know, that it gives them a chance to honor God,

but then also to show largesse to people who are much richer than them. Right. I think I might talk about that in the vagabonds way too. Not in the context of Syria, but just like, yeah, it's so many parts of the world, hospitality is just what you do, and it's actually ruder to try and turn it down

than to just simply accept it. Yeah, or be like, let me give five dollars to this, and it's like, what the fuck, man? I'm offering you a, like, if I hold a door for you, it's like, here's a dollar. I'm like, I'm not a fucking doorman. Yeah, we've forgotten how it works. We've forgotten how hospitality is just something

that you accept, you eat your food, you make conversation. In Ecuador, I saw a fight, because an American was like, I got this round. And he was like, you think you're richer than me? You think I can afford a beer? And it's like, no, no, no, we just, what do you mean? We just cover rounds once in a while. This happens when I was hitchhiking

with Hungarians in Eastern Europe. I ran in, I filled their tank of gas, and the driver's like, what the fuck? He was literally mad. He was insulting to him. And in retrospect, I can maybe see why, that maybe there was something paternalistic. And it's like, if you had done a deed,

it probably would have been better. If you were like, let me take the squeegee and wipe the, or whatever, maybe that'd be like, oh, that's nice of you. But it's like, I almost had this American guilt. I don't know what it was, but it's like, I'm gonna do these guys a favor. I'm gonna grab this round of gas.

And this guy was having none of it. Plus back then you're like, I wish gonna do these guys a favor. I'm gonna grab this round of gas. And this guy was having none of it. Plus back then you're like, I wish I couldn't really afford it. I was like, this could have done it. It was a mistake. It was actually a huge part of my budget. What else did you want to tell me about Syria? I don't want to like guide you too much.

I know you probably have some stories to tell me. Who are these? Is it that same place? Yeah, that's Majeed who has the eight kids. I hope these people are okay. I mean, Syria hasn't been a very friendly place to be for the last 10 or 15 years. Yeah, I talked about the smugglers.

Yeah, I mean, there's so much you can talk about. I talked about Con Air. Let me see what she says. Here, this is something I wanna talk about. This chair that is in every poor country. It is a child's, it takes the place of a table, a chair. It's in every outdoor seating area in Thailand, China, Myanmar, everywhere.

It's this plastic chair. What is, how does that get everywhere? That's a travel book right there. Yeah, that chair. Be the person who travels, you know. Just to find that chair. Follows that chair around the world. Yeah, there is a sameness, even like certain cinder block buildings,

you know, sort of warm parts of the world, there's a sameness to, in developing worlds. Yeah, so there I am with a couple of Iraqi taxi drivers or guys who did business with Iraq. What are you supposed to do, what are you drinking tea? Drinking tea, yeah. What's the tea culture there like in Syria? Well, actually, the coffee culture is amazing.

The tea culture, I'm more of a coffee guy. But I just remember, in fact, I wrote it in my journal, having Arabic coffee with cardamom in Damascus and feeling super high. It's like a cool morning in the Middle East, and you get your caffeine buzz. And I would write about, someday I'm gonna look back on this moment.

Well, now it is someday, and I'm looking back on that moment, and there's something really thrilling about sort of having a caffeine high in a new place, and just sort of looking around and thinking, I am here. And this is amazing. I think sometimes you don't need an intoxicant or some sort of upper downer to remind you of this, but sometimes it's sort of nice. You know, maybe you take the shot of Uzo or you have a really strong cup of Turkish coffee. That's just rich with sugar and cardamom. And then it's morning

and you're sort of starting to wake up and you realize you know nothing. You have no idea you're going to eat a sheep's brain sandwich. You have no idea the next car that drives down the street is going to have a Batman symbol on it. And it's just those are the simple and you can appreciate this. Those are the simple moments that make travel worth it. There's the bucket list but there's also those moments where it's just like, I am, nobody knows where I am.

And I am wide awake and anything could happen and I just feel so lucky. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You're drinking some coffee. Right, exactly. And the tastes are so full, because you're like, this is different. I'm noticing it as you're noticing everything else

around you. Yeah, you're right. Nobody knows who I am. That's a good way to put it too, because it's like, it makes it more exciting. Yeah, it's that, and I think this happens less often now because we live through our phones, but just like anything could happen. Nobody knows I'm here, nobody knows who I am.

I'm gonna walk down the street and it's gonna be super interesting, and it is. God damn, how long did you stay in Syria for? Three weeks. Three weeks. Was that the, is it like a month long visa? Do you remember? I don't remember.

I honestly don't remember. A lot of these places are 30 days. Yeah. It's like the standard. Yeah, yeah, I think that's probably what it was. And I had to apply for it in Egypt. And then it was sort of an out and back thing. Went back to Jordan.

But it is easy to say, because now it's sort of an off limits country. It's just one of my favorite places. Just because I guess, and this is, any place that has a bad reputation probably has super friendly people, because they're just not jaded by tourists. And people don't see you in a geopolitical way.

It's just like, oh, you don't see this guy every day. Right. Who in this neighborhood knows English? Let's get that kid who's been studying English and let's find out what this guy wants. Yeah. And that really happened in Syria. And I don't know, it's like the Syrians

I met were really educated too. They, it was a dictatorship, but they had good education, just a lot of engineers. I mean, it's that sort of old bathist idea of, I don't know, Soviet self-improvement or something, but, and maybe there's a little bit of 2020 hindsight, but I just have really fond memories of Syria. And when all that violence broke out in the early 2010s,

I was really sad because I met some really cool people there. Was Damascus like a cultural center? Like the way they say Beirut before all that was like the cultural hub of the Middle East. Yeah, and Egypt too. Like even like the, you hear a call to prayer in Indonesia and odds are it was recorded in Egypt, you know, like that. That's, I mean, there's a huge population density there. Beirut definitely, because Beirut is practically Europe, right? I mean, there's a huge population density there. Beirut, definitely, because Beirut is practically Europe,

right? Very, very global. Cairo is less so, but Cairo is just the pop culture center of the Middle East. Damascus, there is some. Like, you read an anthology of Arabic writing, there'll be a few Syrians, Damascus based people there. Um, did you get to Aleppo? I did. I did. Um, that's,

this was kind of destroyed, right? That was destroyed. I went to the, I bought, I bought some silks in that market that was destroyed in the war. Uh, I wrote a story about it. I was like walking down the street and this is before, it's so weird. Like 24 years ago, there weren't iPods, right? Some people traveled with some cassette tapes and a Walkman, right? I heard Sex Machine coming out of the hotel room

where I was and I had missed music so much, like the James Brown song Sex Machine. I missed music so much that I just stood outside the room and listened to it. I was so hungry for songs. I remember watching Fight Club in Cairo, and they play a Pixies song at the end, Where Is My Mind?

And I just felt, you don't feel this way anymore because you can listen to a library of music on your phone at any time. My heart was so full when I heard the Pixies in a fight club because I hadn't heard that music in a long time. I stood in the hall like some kind of pervert outside of somebody's Aleppo hotel room

because I heard a James Brown song in Aleppo. Wow, so funny just like listening in. Yeah, no, like I was like, it was like, I feel so good. Yeah. I felt so American. It was like the Star Spangled Banner times 100. It's like, I'm just so proud that James Brown is from America, and I'm just gonna stand here

until this song ends. And the kids out there don't understand because it was great to immerse myself in the Arabic music, and there's some crazy stuff. I bought some Arabic cassette tapes in various parts of the world, including Syria. But the fact that I hadn't, you and I have talked about going to Israel

after being in the Arab world and then you see a woman in a bikini and it's like going through puberty again. Simply because you haven't been exposed to that. It's the same with music is like, I hadn't heard any of the rock music that I loved. And so suddenly, or the soul music. So suddenly I'm listening to James Brown

and I'm feeling as patriotic as I've ever felt just because I hear it in Aleppo hotel room and the hotel hallway. And then she's like, I hope these guys don't open the door but in a way I don't care because I haven't heard this song in a while. You would have been like, I know this song. I'm just listening.

Yeah, it's like, you're not doing anything creepy. You're just like, it looks weird, but this is it. This was like where you went to get in the limbo. Yeah, and I'm trying to think of, I got some very like Arabic merchants or so, like you talk to one guy and you buy something from him and he'll nod to the other guys down the way and pretty soon everybody is trying to hustle you in

because you're seen as a guy who wants to spend some money. It's crazy, you're like, when they like, you get a suit in like Hong Kong or something like that and you're walking out with your suit, they got a tent. Like, you want a suit? Like, no, I mean, I just got a suit. We're like, come on, get another suit. I'm full of suits.

When I was in Thailand last December, I got a suit. It's an amazing suit. But yeah, I got some silks. I got some like some Syrian silks that I gave, I think my mom and my sister, and they were amazing. And that place is gone, it's a shame. Damn, yeah, war sucks. I heard one time, it just reminded me,

and by the way, I've said this, and it's such a good writing tool that we figured out at the Luxembourg Gardens, where like, tell a story, remind me of a story, tell that story, remind me of a story, tell a story. Oh, for sure. Yeah, we should do a podcast that way. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

It's already happened because like we've talked about Thailand and South America, yeah. I was landing, I was trying to go to East Timor, the land in West Timor or whatever in Indonesia. And from the airport, got a cab to the hostel, to the one hostel I heard about, and Guns N' Roses song came on. I was like, oh, sick, got a cab to the hostel, to the one hostel I heard about, and a Guns N' Roses song came on. I was like, oh, sick, in the cab.

And then that ended, and it was like a 30 minute drive. A second Guns N' Roses concom, I'm like, oh, this is the tape. You're playing the tape, or they're playing on the radio. And I was like, take the long way. This is your fucking rules. It just takes you back, you haven't heard that shit. It makes it so much richer.

Yeah. And you don't know what you're missing when you have a whole media library on your phone. And I'm not complaining, but I sort of am. Yeah, right. Because the beauty of listening to James Brown in a hallway in Aleppo, it was a way that I could only feel in the year 2000.

Yeah. The beauty of watching Fight Club in Cairo, which is amazing in and of itself because that's such a crazy movie, seeing it for the first time and then hearing the pixies at the end and it's just like, yeah, that just felt so good. It's like meeting a part of yourself

where you didn't expect to meet it. How do they take that movie in Cairo? That's a great question. I mean, it's all about overthrowing governments and the society in general. Right, yeah. I mean, it's all about overthrowing governments and the society in general. I mean, when everything's blowing up at the end, spoiler, when everything's blowing up, you had your time.

It's just like, oh yeah, and the happy ending of the world being destroyed is like, yeah, I wonder how they took that. I wish I remembered. I wish I remembered how they took that. And maybe there weren't that many people in the theater and maybe it only ran for a week or two. I actually saw the green mile in Cairo, remember that movie?

And like every time the actor mentioned God, some guy, some pious guy in the audience was like, ha la, he was like really mad. They had sort of this New Age science fiction Stephen King take on God. And so some pious guy in his jalaba was like, he was reminding everybody in the theater that we're not gonna have this Americanized,

you know, Stephen King prison idea of God, but he's gonna remind us. I like how they rename movies in other countries because it doesn't apply. I saw Groundhog Day in Israel and they just don't have that holiday. Oh, okay. Yeah, so it was called, I'll see you again tomorrow.

Okay. In Hebrew. Oh, that's not bad. That's not bad, it's pretty close. That could almost be its own UB trip, an episode, it was like movies you've seen in other places. Cause I like- That's a good idea. That's a good idea, write that down.

Ideas from new episodes, there we go. Seriously, no, it's affecting. Yeah, I saw Pleasantville and Riga from new episodes, there we go. Seriously, no, it's affecting. Yeah, I saw Pleasantville in Riga. Where's Riga? I saw Dude, Where's My Car in Bombay. Oh my God. Oh my God. Wait, how would they get any of that?

I don't know why they were showing Dude, Where's My Car. I love a Cadence movie translated. It's like, you're never gonna get this. Yeah, yeah, I have no idea. I, I laughed until I cried. Again, it was, it was, it was in that era. It was the same year. It was 2000. It was in that same year where it was like a heroin

injection of American culture and like all the references in Dude, Where's My Car? I have to rewatch that movie. It's a very silly movie, but yeah. Yeah. But I watched it in, in Bombay and it made me so happy. Damn. I fucking wanna go out to Syria now. No way, can I get there? You think it's safe?

Probably not. Kids out there, don't try it unless you like have a family member there. I met a Swiss lady who was going to Iran. She's like an environmental activist now. But I was like, Iran, she goes, I mean, you gotta wear a scarf some places. But she's like, those dangerous parts are like three out of 40. So like, it's not that bad.

I bet Iran is really friendly too. I bet you mean, again, another Islamic country that doesn't get a lot of Western tourists, not a lot of Americans, but again, everybody has a cousin in America in Iran, because it's just there's so many Persians in the US that I would love to go there. Yeah, you rate people for their governments, and then the people have nothing to do with that. Not at all. I mean, a quarter of this country voted for Trump,

a quarter of this country voted for Biden. So like 75% of us are not that government. Well, I've said before that the people most likely to judge me as an American on the other side of the world are Canadians and Brits, you know, because they have a very strong sense, they sort of define themselves in contrast to the US. Like, well, at the very least, there's an American there

and they've done more embarrassing things geopolitically than we have. But at the end of the day, oh my God, like that my taxi driver in Syria was so excited, you know, that he had an American in his cab and that that's all over the world. And it's NBA. I had one in somewhere, maybe Myanmar, maybe somewhere I was like, they're from America. They're like Schwarzenegger. And I'm like, oh wow. Yeah. He's not American by the way, but okay. I get what you're saying. It's like movies is what you mean.

I'm not surprised that they were into Schwarzenegger. I was surprised that they were literate in the Utah jazz. Specifically, they were talking about, this guy was a Utah jazz fan in commissionally Syria in the year 2000. And I just thought that was cool because at the end of the day, that's what people care about.

You know, they like, do we know who other countries leaders are or what their foreign policies are, or even what their histories are? Oh, they were a bad team back then. Damn. Oh wait, that's now, that's now, that's now. Okay. They don't go back.

I think they were pretty good. Okay, here we go. The Jazz got off to a 15-7 start. Not bad. 55 and 27. Damn, that's pretty good. That's a good team. That's what they were talking about. Midwest. Yeah.

Oh, and then also Majid, the guy with the eight kids, he's like, Magic Johnson is dead. And I'm like, no, no. He got AIDS, but he hasn't died. He's like, no. He's dead to me? You don't know this, but he's dead. Yeah.

And so I was sort of in an argument with a Syrian guy who was just convinced, it's like you couldn't convince him that Magic Johnson was not dead. 25 years later, still alive. Right. No, no, no, he died. Exactly.

So Majeed and commissioned Syria 24 years ago, it's like, no, no, you didn't know? Like Magic Johnson is dead. It's like, no. He's trying didn't know? Like Magic Johnson is dead. It's like, Reader's Digest, Batman, Magic Johnson, the Utah Jazz. First of all. Yeah. I think that's Majeed. Yeah. That's Majeed and maybe his wife or his mom or something. Careful. You're're gonna insult him if it's his wife. I should have taken more pictures.

That's the crazy thing. You have a roll of film and it's expensive to your dirtbag sensibility and the pictures don't come out that well anyway and it's months before you can see what they look like. And so I gave you all my secret pictures. How many of them, like eight or nine? Seven, eight, yeah, something like that.

The weird thing with pictures is you have to stop and interrupt the day to do it. But so it's like, I'll have a memory right now. I don't need this right now. This memory of this, but you will, I mean, 25 years later, yeah, you weren't gonna remember the tapestry on his wall. Yeah, well, let's see, James Brown moved my soul,

and that was a technologically rich moment because I didn't have any other options. But at the same time, I have fucking eight pictures of Syria. You know, James Brown, I hadn't heard James Brown in so long that it made me feel patriotic, yet this is like my third best picture from Syria, and it's a pretty awful picture.

Where'd you get that jacket? That's in Patagonia. Oh really? I worked at an outdoor store in Kansas when I was in my early 20s. I still have that thing. You do? It sort of makes me look like a character from Monsters.

No way, you have that jacket? Oh, I still have that jacket, yeah. I have a lot of clothes, you're not that, I have a lot of clothes that I've had, I mean. No, no, no, I live in a closet. You live on a farm. So you have way more ability to store things. That's true, that's true.

Wow, you still have that fucking jacket. I don't wear it a lot, but yeah, that's a Patagonia. I love that. That's amazing. Actually, I could write the story of, I still have the shoes that I wore on that trip because I have a sentimental relationship to them. And so I could write a story of, I still have the shoes that I wore on that trip because I have a sentimental relationship to them.

And so I could write a history in clothes. I wrote a book about souvenirs. You've read that book. Small, easy read. Clothes are a weird signifier of certain times in your life. So I've lived, that coat, just like that copy of the Vagabond's Way has been to more countries

than some Americans. That coat has been all over the place, you know? And it's possible I'm wearing that on the cover of Vagabonding? It was the same trip, same year I took the picture on the cover of Vagabonding. No. No?

You're wearing a white shirt. Oh no, I'm wearing that shirt. I'm wearing that, and that's like a, yeah, I think that's like a north face vented shirt. Hold on, I can look it up here instead of, oh yeah, that's like a, yeah, I think that's like a north face vented shirt. Hold on, I can look it up here instead of, oh yeah, that's Egypt? Yeah, that's the shirt. I have those boots in my closet, those are the same pants.

No fucking way, really? Yeah, yeah, those boots. In fact, if anybody- What kind of boots are they? I should auction those off for charity, they're Oslo. A-S-O-L-O. There's a bunch of people who have gone onto better financial things than when they needed to read this book.

Right, right. Who would pay some money for charity. Would someone like to buy those boots for charity? I have them, I don't wear them, so. Wow. Yeah, actually. What backpack were you using there? That's an Eastern Mountain Outfitters.

I worked in an outdoor store when I was 20, after my first vagabond trip with the van. So I was 24, 25, I was selling back, I was selling outdoor gear for a living and I really got the job so I could get a pro deal, a discounted outdoor clothing. I still own a lot of the gear, including sleeping bags that I got during that time.

But yeah, no, I... You got an REI ever? Oh, you're asking, I think it's EMS. I'm not a fan of that. I'm not a fan of that. I'm not a fan of that. I'm not a fan of that. I'm not a fan of that. I'm not a fan of that. I'm not a fan of that. I'm not a fan of that. I'm not a fan of that. I'm not a fan of that. I'm not a fan of that. I'm not a fan of that. I'm not a fan of that.

I'm not a fan of that. I'm not a fan of that. I'm not a fan of that. I'm not a fan of that. I'm not a fan of that. I'm not a fan of that. I'm not a fan of that. I'm not a fan of that.

I'm not a fan of that. I'm not a fan of that. I'm not a fan of that. I'm not a fan of that. I'm not a fan of that. I'm not a fan of that. I'm not a fan of that. I'm not a fan of that.

I'm not a fan of that. I'm not a fan of that. I'm not a fan of that. I'm not a fan of that. bag in there. Like this is when I was still a little bit naive. I was still a little bit green. And so I carried a sleeping bag all over the Middle East and I only slept in it like seven times. Yeah. When I went to Ecuador, it was like, hey, we might need to go camping. Let's bring like tents and stuff.

And then it hit me like, am I gonna travel around for months with a maybe? Or they probably have, it's a major city, I can get a sleeping bag there. Totally. If I need it, never did. Went to Kenya last summer, climbed Mount Kenya, bought a backpack in France, rented hiking poles, rented a sleeping bag, it's so much better to just rent.

I met a friend in Guatemala, a hiker, a real hiker, he's Australian, and he said all these people go to Chimborazo and try to climb it, but it's all these rich people and they're done, like, I don't want this stuff anymore. And he goes, I wanna start a business just getting that stuff and then renting it to people.

There you go. Yeah, that's a great idea. Yeah, I think there's so many, I'm sure this happens more in Kilimanjaro, I climbed Mount Kenya last year, it was my pen cap, where people come with a very specific idea of what it's gonna be like, when in fact, just show up and somebody will rent you your gear and you hire porters to carry your stuff,

you don't need that much stuff anyway in that type of situation. But this, yeah, I was so green, I slept in the desert that night. Wow. This is actually my story from Marco Polo didn't go there, be your own donkey, so when I tried to buy a donkey and nobody would sell one to me. So I just, they said, be your own donkey asshole.

Just go walk in the desert. You don't need a donkey. So I had this adventure in the desert way, way over packed. What a cool picture. That's EMS. I think it's like Eastern mountain something or another. I got it on a pro deal. I still have that.

I still have that bag. I may give it to my nephew. Damn bro. But yeah, it's funny. I have an old Gregory pack that I used in the 1980s and a buddy of mine sells, he flips stuff on eBay and it's worth like three to $500. Like this old banged up,

because there's people who are really into Gregory backpacks which is sort of an elite brand. It's like an OG Spire backpack. My Osprey just started breaking that I had through Asia, through everywhere. And then they're like, they will fix it. And if they can't fix it, they'll schedule it. But it's like eight weeks.

And I'm like, well, I gotta. Have they sponsored you yet, Osprey? No, what the fuck? It's my favorite backpack. You've given them free advertising again and again. But I gotta get a new one, and then you got to decide what you got to get the exact right leader so you can fit it on overheads.

They made a slightly bigger model of the one I have. And I'm like, no, no, that's not going to work anymore. I was at a limit right then. I used Tortuga. Actually, I know the guy who started Tortuga. And it's actually designed for travelers. So many Europeans you see. And again, this is free advertising,

but I love Tortuga. Like you see these Germans, and they're like hike the Alps backpacks, and they're in Sri Lanka. Whereas Tortuga, it's made for travelers. And so you fit it in the overhead bin. It's 30 or 40 liters. It's designed not for camping in the woods,

but for traveling the world. And so it's nice. There's a different one for woods backpacking. That's a different thing. For hiking that where you need like granola bar pouches. Or your canteens or your hiking poles or whatever. And when you travel, when you go to Syria or Thailand

or whatever, you don't need that much. And so just have a nice cube that you can put in the airplane that isn't gonna be heavy. That's not. We do, we should design a backpack because at least they should ask you. They'd be like, what do you want? I want a top loading and bottom loading possible

so you don't have to like unload everything to get some or total unzip so you can like see everything. Detachable day pack is huge. Okay. Some of those straps to like hang stuff on like wet socks. What would you put on there? Oh yeah, no, this is, and it's been a while since I've been super dirt bag backpack

so they should do several different levels. And by the way, Osprey, you guys should sponsor him. If not, we can talk to Tortuga because I know that Tortuga, Fred is the founder of Tortuga. He can design the Ari Shafir maybe backpack. Really? Yeah, cover it up like Marilyn Flagg. I can talk to him about it.

Yeah. Right. No, but totally like, how many times have you hand washed your clothes design the R.E. Shafir maybe. Really? Backpack, maybe. Covered up like a Maryland flag. I can talk to him about it. Yeah. No, but totally like, how many times have you hand washed your clothes in the sink and they're not dry yet? And you gotta go. Like a little rack, you can hang your socks on the back. Yeah, I want to think about this, take notes.

Next time you're out on the road, think what could be better about my pack right now? Yeah, right, exactly. You need a Camelback pouch, but also to not take up space if you don't have a CamelBak for like the hikings. You need some sort of, something you can access, like a water bottle where you can be walking and just pull it out, you know?

Damn, there's so much to it. Electronics. There's an essay. And a lot of backpacks have this, you know? But you have a little slide where you put your laptop or your electronics or stuff like that. And actually, I've talked to other designers. This one company, they gave me a test pack. And there's a special cubicle for your shoes.

Well, I have size 13 feet. My shoes didn't fit in there. And it's like, don't try to be too smart. Because you design a pack with too many snazzy cubicles and it's like they're doing your thinking for you. It's like at the end of the day, just give me a stuff sack and I'll put my socks in there and I'll put the stuff sack where it makes sense to put it.

You don't need to hyper engineer this place with your special compression chambers and apartments. Just don't be smarter than me. Pockets, I like pockets but not for any reason and just let me figure out what I want to put where yeah, but some separators that are in there that I can use ones that are velcro that they can be a separator if you want it or it can just be a You can pull it out neck pillow if you want that so

Yeah, you ever use a vacuum Sealer vacuum like like compacts all your stuff? No, no, but they have versions of that. They have compressors with a strap. They have vacu... Have you used vacuum sealer? Well, there's these little pouches and you put your stuff in and then you just squeeze it

and it'll let the air out but not back in until you unscrew it and then it's just like way smaller. My philosophy on that is that that's just a trick to make you pack too much. Right. So one advantage of like a 30 liter pack is that that's just a trick to make you pack too much. Right, fair, fair. So one advantage of like a 30 liter pack is that you have to make decisions. And that really, you know, I traveled around the world

with no luggage 14 years ago, God, feels like yesterday. And once you make the decision, you realize you don't need that much, you know? Yeah. And so, yeah, I'm sure that the vacuum packing thing works in some situations, but as long as you're not afraid to wash your clothes regularly, you don't really need that much. And like rent your climbing gear or whatever.

Yeah, pack smart. Okay, so now let's wrap this up. There's a few things I get to usually in these episodes that I try to do. I'll come back to it, but it's Travel Tip, just one. You'll be on this podcast multiple times. So it's one, and then also a place that's been calling you. Ooh. Travel Tip, I would say, oh my God, I slow down.

There's a billion of them, so yeah. Go slow, I think we talked before this interview, we talked about how as a default, people overdo it. You know, they try to do too many things at once. Slow down, let the place travel through you. And then pack light, we were just talking about it. So odd that get a small pack and force yourself to make decisions

because otherwise you'll dream of yourself with this cool little travel accessory on the other side of the world, not realizing you don't really need the travel accessory and that, yeah, actually they sell socks in Myanmar too. Dude, when I left for Asia, I was like, well, let me get like 10 things with toothpaste because I won't be able to find it.

I'm glad I didn't. I was like, you're gonna be able to find toothpaste, you idiot. Speaking of toothpaste. Slow down though, I'm gonna give that as the word for you. Slow down. Slow down for sure, yeah gonna give that as the word. Slow down. Slow down for sure, yeah. See things, what do you mean, like less itinerary?

Or just like. Yeah, just know that you're gonna be smarter when you get there. You're gonna be learning things every day. And so if you have this really packed itinerary that is trying to jam a bunch in, then you're not realizing that you're gonna be smarter when you get there and just walking around and talking to people is going to give you

more options. And if you're rushing from place to place based on what you thought you wanted to see, you're not going to have time for what you really want to see when you see it, you know? Yeah. When you get there. I had two things I wanted to do in Southeast Asia for, I think, two and eight months when I went. It was Bagan and what are those big islands that go right up at the edge of Vietnam? In Vietnam, yeah. How long bay?

How long bay. I only got to one of those two in four months and it was like fine. Yeah, for years, my first vagabonding thing through Southeast Asia, I had like everything, I had all these ideas including Malaysia and Indonesia and it was 20 all these ideas, including Malaysia and Indonesia, and it was 20 years before I got to Malaysia and Indonesia that I realized that it was better to throw

that research away for the time being, and just enjoy Thailand and Laos and Vietnam, and later Myanmar, than to try and do something based upon what I thought I wanted to see, as opposed, and those countries are still gonna be there, right? Just eat your vegetables and live long and there'll be time to get all those places. Yeah, all right, what'd you wanna say

about where you wanna go? Like what's it called? About where I wanna go? Well, I am, where I wanna go is where I'm going. So I'm going to Vanuatu and to Bali. Where's Vanuatu? My first time. You're never been to Bali? Vanuatu is down by Papua New Guinea. It's in Melanesia.

Okay. Melanesia? Yeah, it's. I'll do this instead. Oh, there it is. Oh, wow. That's out there. Yeah.

Vanuatu? Yeah, Vanuatu. It used to be called the New Hebrides. I'm sure. Oh, there we go. Melanesian. Damn. Yeah, there it is. And there's like 80 islands and 200 languages spoken in Vanuatu, like every valley has its own language.

Yeah, the Solomon Islands. I think that's where New Year's gets rung in. Yeah. First or something. Yeah, I didn't realize how far south it is. Damn, that is nowhere. Yeah, I've never been to far south it is. Damn, that is nowhere. Yeah, I've never been to the South Pacific. Edge of the world, really?

Yeah, and so- Hawaii's up there? I mean, I've been to Hawaii and I've been to New Zealand and Australia, but I've never been to like the small islands of the South Pacific before. I've never been to Melanesia, so it's a Melanesian culture.

Wow, Fiji, that's whatever. Yeah, I'm gonna go to Fiji. I'm gonna spend like four nights in Fiji and then three weeks in Vanuatu. I mean, it's like a very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very,

very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, go there for like a relaxing holiday. It's really primitive. I don't mean that in the pejorative sense. I mean that there's entire islands where there's just a few flushing toilets. Oh. And that you're going from village to village on people who live very traditional lives. Actually, the missionaries that made it there,

it's a very Christian place. It's also very animistic. Animist. Oh yeah. That's what I am. Okay, cool. If I had to pick my religion, I think it's that. Yeah, it's not bad. Yeah. It's land specific. So it might be hard to be a true animist and live in, in Manhattan, New York city.

Yeah, there's so little soil and wood that you touch. Oh, but like, um, like Werner Herzog, if you watch much Werner Herzog, he has a documentary about volcanoes. Like the island of Tana has this volcano. It's one of three in the world where you basically look down right into the lava. There's no, you can always go down and look down into the lava. And that's affected the religion on that island.

Actually, that's where the cargo cults are. Have you heard of cargo cults? Uh-uh. Where they believe, it was affected by World War II to an extent that they believe in this guy named John Frum, who was gonna say, I'm gonna bring you a lot of stuff. And then World War II soldiers came and gave them all this stuff.

They like, they were these wealthy people. There's a lot of black soldiers and Melanesians have kinky hair and dark skin. And so they were so impressed that these soldiers that looked like them were there with all of these supplies and machines. Look it up, there's a Wikipedia, long Wikipedia plate where a cargo cult,

where basically they think the Messiah is basically gonna be an American. And instead of bringing them eternal life, he's gonna bring them crates and crates of cool stuff. I'm sorry if you're a cargo cult member and I paraphrased the religion wrong. The religion was chithupana. Wow, okay.

Oh, this is gonna be a Patreon episode, for sure. Yeah. Oh my God, I would love to talk about it when I come back. Yeah, oh yeah, when you get back from Vanuatu, for sure that's an episode. Garrett, nobody, nobody's doing that. I do have a friend who was in Kabul when it was a, what are those things called,

where the government hires people to build it up? Government contractors, it was a government contractor town. And they were like, bring out whatever, but like Yoshi. So I will have someone else who will be on this with Syria, but also of a time that's no longer there. He goes, that city is gone. As soon as they pull back, everyone he knows is like no longer there.

I would love to go back to Damascus. I'm not sure, I'm sure some parts of it are the same and some of it are the same and some of it are not. But yeah, no, Vanuatu is gonna be very, very new to me. I've never been to a part of the world that's quite like this. Damn.

How come this? How come that? I'm traveling in the footsteps of some Kansas filmmakers, Martin and Osa Johnson. My wife, Kiki and I are following the footsteps of Martin Osa Johnson, who went there 100 years ago and made some of the first documentary films about these parts of the world.

What, you've just been following these people and then now you're like actually following them? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Were you reading their stuff or watching their stuff? Yeah, no, they made movies. They haven't always aged very well. Like they're movies, they made a movie in 1917 called Cannibal Isles of the South Pacific.

And so they went to the New Hebrides, now Vanuatu, looking for cannibals. And they didn't really find them, but they sort of pretended they found them. It's a fascinating story. So you're Jesusing them? Jesusing them. Following them around the world? Yeah, I'm just making them like... It's a cool way to get around.

Martin Johnson traveled with Jack London, like in the 19 aughts, and he married Osa Johnson, who was sort of a vaudeville performer. And like, I'm a travel writer married to an actress. And so we're both from Kansas. We're both like the same age apart. And so we were just fascinated with them. And so, well, it's just like, so you're into rugby. You go to Fiji or New Zealand,

you have different pretexts to go to a place. There's no way I would go to Vanuatu had I not just been fascinated with this old Kansas couple that are sort of similar to me and my wife in a certain way and lived 100 years ago. And so that's why I'm gonna go to Vanuatu. That's fucking cool. Hold on, before we wrap up, let me do this.

And you can edit the shit out of this, by the way. I always feel like I ramble a little bit. We get excited, all right, and we talk about things. I talked to my mom, she's listened to a few episodes, and she like, I'm liking some of the feedback because it's making me realize, also your feedback on it was interesting. My mom was like, she listened to a couple.

She goes, I really liked them. I didn't like this one about one place. I won't say which one. And I'm like, why? She goes, he didn't like this one about one place. I won't say which one. And I'm like, why? She goes, he didn't make me wanna go there. The other ones made me wanna go there. That's a good frame of operation.

This made me want to go to Syria. And I wish, there's a second search engine that I have to use, which is, is it safe? And then is it safe for Jews? Right, yeah. But whatever. Anyway, everybody, these are two books you should get if you're at all interested in traveling at all. This one, you should just buy the Vagabond's Way

and just put it in your backpack and then just have it for when you're gone. It's, every one is a fucking, you see this is like a different, you know, one, it's one per day for a year plus a leap year. But it's just random. It'll just get you thinking about traveling. This is more preparing to get gone for a while.

So get vagabonding and read it. This vagabond's way, I would just say, just keep it in your travel backpack. Oh, these are US bonds I found for my Bar Mitzvah. Oh, nice. How much are they worth? It took them like 15 years to recruit. They're 15 and 25.

Now they're worth like 51 and 26. Okay, okay. Almost nothing. But damn, I didn't realize I probably have stuff in here. Nice. This is an advanced paperback. It's also out in paperback. Now I just saw it at the Barnes and Noble.

Oh really? It was not then it was a hard cover for about a year. And that's in paperback. My advice is before you even start tape up these sides so they don't fucking fall apart. Um, Rolf, buddy, thank you very much. You still have to do your podcast. My interview with you.

They're just in general. You still do to do your podcast? My interview with you? They're just in general. You still do deviate? Oh, you know, I'm still doing it. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, deviate, I'll put it in earlier too. Deviate with Rolf Potts. Check it out. I'm on there four times, fourish.

You're one of the all-stars. I think you've been like seven or eight times. Damn, really? And sometimes I rerun them. Like I take your podcasts and make them my own. So there's a lot of ARIA on there. By all means, go for it. People love my Aria episodes.

Yeah, yeah, we really, we get into it. It makes it, yeah. It's me and Tim probably, the top ones there. You and Tim, maybe Andrew McCarthy. Andrew McCarthy, the actor from the 80s movies? Yeah, no, he's a travel writer. You didn't know that? Andrew McCarthy, the actor from the 80s movies?

Yeah, yeah, yeah. He's written like two really good travel books. There was a thing of the same guy, the same guy. Hardthrough. I went through the same thing. You're like, I'm seeing your face, I know. There's these awards, the Lowell Thomas Awards, and one year it's like Andrew McCarthy won the grand prize.

It was like 15 years ago, and I asked my friend, it's like Andrew McCarthy like won the grand prize. It was like 15 years ago and I asked my friend who's this Andrew McCarthy's like it's it's the actor guy the pretty and pink guy and I'm like no not the pretty and pink guy the travel writer who is this guy who won the grand award and he's like dude is a travel writer what and and I've become friendly with him and he writes really smart travel books and he and it's one in the same what where does he live? He lives uptown, he lives in Manhattan. What?

Oh dude, you gotta connect us then. Yeah, I'm happy to. Yeah, he wrote a book. I'm sorry, I'm in the middle of my mind being blown. I had no idea about everybody knew this. Everybody knew this. You know, I did a live event with him in Wichita, Kansas. Like the same childhood town where I would watch

mannequin on the big where I would watch mannequin on the big screen. I, Andrew came and we talked about travel and yeah, no, you should get him on your podcast. Yeah, for sure. For sure. And then, and it's not just like a celebrity writing about his travels.

He writes smart travel books and he travels in a thoughtful way. Wow. Yeah. I, I'll come down from this in like an hour or two. Yeah. All right. Rolf, thank you very much. The best episodes of these always been the ones where I'm like longing and this has left me that. So thank you very much. And I'm sorry it can't be for a country that's easier to travel to. I cannot recommend Syria for everybody, especially people with an Israel connection, unfortunately. But there are these countries still available and these places still available. I just don't know what they are. There's a version of it. There's,

there's a place somewhere in the world that people think is dangerous, like Iran or some other place where you go there and you meet an everyday person and it's, I bet if you went to Oskiman Kazakhstan, it might be okay. I bet. I went to, where's the place? Where's the main town? Almaty, I went to Almaty. Yeah.

Loved it. Damn. Yeah. You've been everywhere. All right. Yeah. All right. Sorry.

I feel like we ramble a bit, but it's in a good way. Yeah, we did. It was still fun. Yeah, it was still fun. All right. Thanks for tuning in. Please subscribe and check out Rolz Podcasts DBA where he talks about this, you know a far more thoughtful way than I do.

And less, less dick jokes. Um, till next week, everybody. Thank you very much. Well, that is the episode everybody. What a cool trip. What a cool trip from Rolf Potts. Cereal like the right way though too. God, can you imagine going like that? Damn, if you think I'm a high level traveler, I'm, fuck it, I'm like a six and a half. I'm like a six and a half. Maybe a six, maybe a six.

And Rolf was like a nine, two. There's other guys that are even more wild. They're just nuts nuts. Here, I'm here on the guest side of the over shoulder shot. Check this out. More souvenirs. Oops, that's some money that I haven't put up yet. Thank you Rolf Potts for coming in. Don't forget to pick up his book, The Vagabond's Way, that's available right now. You might also be aware, I already have a copy of Vagabonding.

That's a book you buy for a friend. If you're ordering the Vagabond's Way pick up a copy of Vagabonding for a friend. That one's like a hundred and eighty pages. This one is 366 pages. Handwriting a letter home is an iconic travel right. August 18th. One can travel in a different modes on a single journey. Yeah, true. Improvised communication is part of the journey. Buses bring you into the rhythms of local life. June 27th. Oh hell yeah, you're right about that one, Rolf. There are train buffs. There are bus buffs. A bus is simply a way to get from...

...one place to another cheaply. Thomas Swift, The Joys of Travel. Damn. Nobody ever waves at buses. Canadian novelists don't even come equipped. They move more- oh wow, yeah, you're right. Away from home habits Your recept- away from home habits your receptivity deepens. Here's a quote that I fucking

Marked for some reason. In every long journey there is a moment when you perceive that travel has truly begun It does not usually happen at the beginning, but when you feel that your soul has fled from the habits of daily life. Javier Rivera, Corazon de... Oh, whatever. Interesting. What is it? Ooh, Roger Waters.

Sign. I've not seen that. Sign ticket. That's for Tony Hinchcliffe. Don't tell him. Anyway, get this book the vagabonds way right now check out his podcast deviate with Rolf Potts these are all bills that I've gotten a lot from people who sent in that I read on the patreon

patreon.com slash. Um, you be trippin. I should put that old episode of Rolf and me in Paris on the Patreon. I moved over all the travel related Patreons from the old one onto this. So it was like a backlog of stuff. Um, yeah, somebody sent me this one, which is, I don't even remember. People's Republic of China, a bill they made during COVID. I wish you guys could see it. It's so cool. What is this one? I did see a Cambodian one in a Bodega on a mirror and I was like, what's that from? And he said Cambodia. I almost gave him five dollars.

I might go back there. I might go back there Egyptian money Yeah, people are sending it if you do want to send something in a postcard from your travels not from America But from foreign send it to one five one One five one first Avenue number 49 New York, New York one zero zero zero three This is a shirt a fan sent me a long time ago. I saw the cock rooster fight in East Timor. Futumanu, the bound foot.

Yep. It was a whatever group, political group. Frente. Frendling. Excuse me. It's such a Frente Revolution de Timor Leste Independente. Yeah. Independente.

Frente de Revolucion is Timor. Independente. What's the L? I don't know. Today's episode was produced by Your Mom's House Network. It was edited by Alan Caffey and some version of Alan Caffey and Chris Larson. Chad's also probably involved. Listen, everybody's farting around everybody there.

So even if you weren't involved in making it, you were involved in's farting around everybody there, so even if you weren't involved in making it, you were involved in the farting process that gets people creatively juiced up. The editing they did, you see the last week on the, oh I gotta tell you next week is, the last week where they did a, with Juicy Harvey with his poem, it's Chad's idea. Great idea. Good editing. Makes it more fun. Juicy Harvey made me realize we gotta have a guesties. At the end of the year, we'll do like a guest awards. It's coming up.

Best guess and fuck it, for real. He must be on that list. Harlan. Don't forget my presale starts on Wednesday at 10 a at 10am local time, possibly 12, but probably 10am local time. Use promo code ARI. These are the only cities I'll be doing in 2025. It's just January, February, and March and one week in April.

In alphabetical order, Anchorage, Atlanta, Austin, Brea, Calgary, Chicago, Denver, Edmonton, Fort Lauderdale, Nashville, Orlando, Pittsburgh, Portland, Providence, Salt Lake, San Antonio, San Jose, Seattle, Tahoe, Tampa, and Vancouver. See if I know what January is Pittsburgh, Providence, Salt Lake, maybe San Antonio. February is Tampa. What else we got? San Jose maybe in there, Denver probably, March is Calgary, no, April is Seattle, Vancouver, Edmonton, Calgary, Calgary, Edmonton, any, whatever guys. Point is go

to always your fear comm for tickets please subscribe we're almost at a hundred thousand subscribers pretty fucking cool on YouTube or wherever you're listening listen on Spotify subscribe there too I'll give a shit next week great Irish storyteller Tommy Tiernan comes on the podcast and we go to Somalia. It's a dark one. I did not mean it that way. It is a dark one. There's more money that guy gave me. What's this one? It's tough. You can't tell what these where they're from because it's not written in English

That's Korea, that's North Korea Right father and the son and maybe wrong, but it's definitely the same as that. I'll certainly put one up. I Need some Indian what oh I had rupees somebody give me rupees I thought could be this Could be that Oh no that's Egypt okay anyway guys that's the episode hope you enjoyed it please subscribe sign up for the patreon patreon.com slash Ari Shafir send me your postcards from wherever you are traveling around the world postcards only or something thin enough to just like be Some some bills don't go crazy. Don't fuck it's been a lot of money on it But if it's like cheap the Cambodian money was literally under a quarter

I might give him five bucks for that one because we're definitely do an episode in Cambodia I might be the guest O'Neill would be a good one for that. Guys, hope you had a good time. Until next week... Oh, Syria? Assalamu'alaikum. No. Yeah, that's probably that. Alaykum As-salam. Alright, goodbye. Goodbye. See you next week.