Young and Profiting with Hala Taha - Dr. Meeta Singh: Sleep Habits for High Performance | E127

Episode Date: August 16, 2021

Get better sleep today!! In today’s episode, we are chatting with Dr. Meeta Singh, sleep medicine doctor and sleep performance consultant. Her principle philosophy is to cut through the hype and disinformation about sleep and provide an evidence-based guide to getting your sleep right. She has served as a consultant for multiple NFL, MLB, NHL and NBA teams. She has worked with college sports teams and large organizations, and CEO’s and other C-suite executives who are aiming for success in the global world. In her clinical practice, she is the service chief of sleep medicine, and section head and medical director at the Henry Ford sleep center in Michigan. She did her training in Psychiatry at the Mayo clinic and a sleep fellowship at the Henry Ford Hospital. In this episode, we talk about why Dr. Meeta became a sleep medicine doctor, the importance of sleep, and the real amount of sleep you should be getting. We’ll also discuss the effect sleep has on decision making, how to use caffeine the right way, understanding the difference between insomnia and sleep deprivation, and how to get rid of that habit of late-night overthinking. If you’ve been looking to level up your sleep habits, this is a must-listen!   Sponsored by -  Gusto. Get three months free when you run your first payroll at gusto.com/YAP     Apostrophe. Go to apostrophe.com/yap and use code ‘YAP’ to save $15 off your dermatology visit!   Social Media:    Follow YAP on IG: www.instagram.com/youngandprofiting Reach out to Hala directly at [e-mail] Follow Hala on Linkedin: www.linkedin.com/in/htaha/ Follow Hala on Instagram: www.instagram.com/yapwithhala Follow Hala on Clubhouse: @halataha Check out our website to meet the team, view show notes and transcripts: www.youngandprofiting.com   Timestamps:   03:05 - Why Dr. Meeta is a Sleep Medicine Doctor 07:27 - Sleep Disorders We Need To Know About 09:22 - The Importance of Sleep 12:47 - The Right Amount of Sleep You Should Get 18:29 - Why Decision Making Gets Impacted When You Get Less Sleep 21:27 - Do Athletes Need More Sleep? 23:54 - Explanation of The Stages of Sleep 28:33 - How To Drink Caffeine Effectively 32:41 - What a Circadian Rhythm Is  36:28 - How To Align Your Work With Your Biological Clock 42:17 - How To Understand If You’re A Night Owl/Early Bird 46:07 - Meeta’s Opinion on Naps  50:02 - Insomnia vs. Sleep Deprivation  54:37 - What We Should Do When We Overthink 59:49 - Dr. Meeta’s World Series Ring 1:00:56 - Dr. Meeta’s Secret to Profiting in Life   Mentioned In The Episode:   Dr. Meeta’s Website: https://meetasinghmd.com/ Dr. Meeta’s LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/meetasinghmd Dr. Meeta’s Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/athletesleepmd/ Dr. Meeta’s Twitter: https://twitter.com/meetasinghmd Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

This episode of YAP is sponsored in part by Shopify. Shopify simplifies selling online and in-person so you can focus on successfully growing your business. Sign up for a $1 per month trial period at Shopify.com slash profiting. You're listening to YAP, Young and Profiting Podcast, a place where you can listen, learn, and profit. Welcome to the show.

I'm your host, Halla Taha, and on Young and Profiting podcast, we investigate a new topic each week and interview some of the brightest minds in the world. My goal is to turn their wisdom into actionable advice that you can use in your everyday life, no matter your age, profession, or industry. There's no fluff on this podcast, And that's on purpose. I'm here

to uncover value from my guests by doing the proper research and asking the right questions. If you're new to the show, we've chatted with the likes of XFBI agents, real estate moguls, self-made billionaires, CEOs, and bestselling authors. Our subject matter ranges from enhancing productivity, had to gain influence, the art of entrepreneurship, and more. If you're smart and like to continually improve yourself, hit the subscribe button, because you'll love it here at Young & Profiting Podcast. This week on YAP, we're chatting with Dr. Mita Singh, a sleep medicine doctor, keynote speaker and sports science trainer whose work focuses on coaching the sleep

muscle to help maximize performance in both individual athletes and sports teams. Her principal philosophy is to cut through the hype and disinformation about sleep and provide an evidence-based guide to getting your sleep right. Dr. Mita is the former chief of sleep medicine and medical director at the Henry Ford Sleep Center and has served as a consultant for the NFL, NBA, NHL, and MLB amongst other sports teams. Aside from helping athletes get better sleep, Mita also coaches CEOs and executives like our former guest, David Meltzer.

Mita is board certified by the American Board of Psychiatry and Neurology as a psychiatrist and sleep medicine subspecialist. In this episode, we talk about why Dr. Mita became a sleep medicine doctor, the importance of sleep and the real amount of sleep you should be getting. We'll also discuss sleep's effect on decision making, how to use caffeine in the right way, understanding the difference between insomnia and sleep deprivation, and how to get rid of the habit of late night overthinking.

If you've been looking to level up your sleep habits for high performance, this episode is a must listen. Hi Dr. Mita, welcome to Young & Profiting Podcast. Hello, thank you for having me. Thank you for giving me a plackle. Of course, of course, that's what we're here for. I love the topic of sleep. In fact, sleep is one of our most popular topics that we cover on Young & Profiting Podcast. We had Dr. Daniel Gartenberg back in episode number 12, and he was actually one of our most popular episodes.

So just really excited to dive deeper and see if we can uncover some new gems for our listeners. And before we do that, I do want to introduce you to our listeners. So you are a world famous sleep coach. You've coached CEOs like David Meltzer, who's been on the podcast a couple of times already. You also coach sports teams, NFL, NBA, MLB, you name it. And you even have a world series champion ring, which is huge. We'll get into that later.

So you know everything about sleep. You work to the Henry Ford Sleep Center as well. So can't wait to pick your brain, but we always like to kind of get background on our guests at first. And so I'd love to understand how you got into sports, how you got into sleep. From my understanding, you were never

into sports as a kid, you were quite nerdy, and that's how you ended up going into medicine, but I'd love to understand the evolution, what you've done, why you are a sleep expert. So, first of all, I'm not surprised that sleep is so popular. We spent a third of our life sleeping, a third. And so, oftentimes, almost everybody has some issue. It's such a fascinating subject where everybody wants to learn something about it. Now, for my background, so I am a sleep medicine doctor.

I did my training in psychiatry at the Mayo Clinic, and then I came to the Henry Ford Health System to do a training. I did a fellowship in sleep medicine for many, many years, I've actually been in clinical practice there. So all along I've always wanted to work with optimizing sleep with a goal of optimizing performance. And it was really easy because I was based in the Greater Detroit area in Michigan and we have the car companies and they often travel, they're you know, they're jet lagged etc. so I was helping with them and then and of course sports just happened by happenstance. I had something on the radio, somebody was like a so-called sleep expert was

talking about what they were suggesting to the local NFL team and I called, called the team physician for the NFL team and I was like, well, that's complete bullshit. And he said, well, why don't you come and give us a talk? And that was about eight or nine years ago. And so I started with the people, people started all levels. You know, sports has this, it's called the Ford Knox effect, which is like, it's really difficult to get in. But once you get in, and if you do good work,

then it's easy to get ahead. And so once I started with a local NFL team and I talked to them and the team physician also worked in Major League Baseball, I started working with them and then the NBA teams and then the NHL. And you know, I've done some work for international soccer. I've done some work for cricket. I've done some work in Major League soccer in the US, and actually I just got about three weeks ago, I got asked to work with the US soccer,

the Women's National team, which is going to the Olympics. I mean they're the number one soccer team in the world right now in women's. And so it's, it's really cool. It's awe-inspiring and it's humbling at the same time. It's scary, but it's exhilarating. I mean, it's just a fantastic feel to be in. When I started working with professional sports, the parallels that people who are C-3T executives, top CEOs are lived the exact same life. I mean, they are like gladT executives, top CEOs are lived exact same life.

I mean, they are like gladiators, right? They always want to be at their level best. And one of the things that suffers a lot is the fact that they're not sleeping. And I remember that when I met David, I think I met him about four, five years ago, you know, he said, everything is going so well in my life.

I sleep really poorly. And so one of the things I was doing is, so when you work in sports, in sports, people, you look at any skill, you have a coach who looks at that skill, you know, sees if you're doing it correctly, gives you the how to tools on a one-on-one basis. And basically that's what I did with David. And it's just word of mouth because if you do good work with one person, it's sort of so. I can totally relate. It's all about, I love the fact that you cold emailed someone when you heard somebody on the radio

and you're like, I could do better than this. And you just, that's so like me. I do the same thing. And to your point, when you're good at your job, it just becomes referrals. And you don't really even have to do advertising. If you have strong relationships with your clients, you'll never have to do an ad in your life because you just get referred and referred. Same thing with me.

So totally can relate there. Let's talk about the main topic of today. Let's talk about sleep because there's so much to cover and I really want to get some actionable insights for my listeners. Let's talk about sleep because there's so much to cover and I really want to get some actionable insights for my listeners. So for my understanding, you were the medical director at Henry Ford Sleep Center and over there you really focused on sleep disorders. So first of all, what are some of the sleep disorders that we need to know about? Okay, so yes, you know, I'm you know, now I'm doing the exact same work, but onto my own flag. But for almost 15 or 16 years, now I'm doing the exact same work, but I'm to my own flag. But for almost

15 or 16 years, so I've been the medical director and the service chief at the Henry Ford sleep lab here. So sleep medicine as a field is rather young, so it's about 35 years old. And a sleep position like I am, we I am both certified and fellowship trained to We, I am both certified and fellowship trained to evaluate and diagnose any sort of sleep disorder and then sleep it and typically when people come to me They have either they have difficulty initiating on sleep or maintaining sleep at night or How are they to sleep? He or tired during the day, or while they're asleep, there's something going on that they're not even aware of. So, people who snore loudly, who may have sleep apnea, who may have, they may kick their legs a lot at night,

and that might disrupt their sleep, and that's results in excessive sleepiness during the day. So, those are the kind of patients I see, I see in my clinical practice. Really interesting. Okay. So sleep apnea and insomnia, I guess those are two really big ones, right? Yes.

And so, I know that you mentioned earlier, we need to spend one-third of our lives sleeping. Are we typically spent a third of our lives sleeping? That's a long time. And so why is sleep so important? Because we always hear, like, you need seven to nine hours of sleep, what is sleep impact for those who don't know? That is an excellent question. And I think that the best way to start

for your audience would be to give them a little bit of background, right? So when you're asleep, Hala, your brain is disengaged from the environment as well as unresponsive, right? And because your brain is disengaged, it forces both your brain and your body to rest. So unless sleep had some absolutely essential function, it would be a

colossal waste of time. So imagine, I mean, you know, while you're asleep, you can't protect yourself, you cannot procreate, you can't eat food or, you know, you can't get yourself, you cannot procreate, you can't eat food or you can't get nutrition in. So it really, it has to be serving some essential purpose, otherwise it would be evolution's biggest mistake. And in fact, now we know that sleep affects every physiological function. So every physiological function that you have is affected if you don't get enough sleep.

So we can start with the head, right? We know sleep exists deep in the brain. So you need sleep to pay attention to something. You know, for your reaction time, you need sleep for good judgment. If you don't get enough sleep, if you wake up in the morning, you're that part of the brain that's responsible for good judgment, multitasking, creativity, good decision making, gets impaired, while the emotional part of your brain becomes overactive.

And can you imagine like there is no other fear, there's no job that people can do in which that would be a good thing. You know, that has to be something that people want to avoid. For people like you, Hala, creativity is really important and that aspect of creativity, in which you take in new information, put it together with previously stored information and then come up with new solutions or novel ideas,

that happens while you're sleeping. It's so important to any information you've taken during the day, memory consolidation happens at night. So that was just a brain. But in fact, and the other thing I would say, mental health is, sleep has this bi-directional relationship with mental health.

So if you don't get enough sleep, you're likely to be grumpy, you're more anxious, more less likely to be able to cope with the stresses of the next day. And if you can't cope with these stresses, then you're going to be more anxious and that's going to be a bad thing. And of course, if you go down the body, you know, your heart, your liver, your kidneys, your every organ you have has to have that nightly reset in which it prepares for functioning

the next day. And that's what happens when you're sleeping. It's so interesting how sleep literally impacts everything. It just, it seems like it impacts everything. And you wouldn't suspect that the way you sleep might impact the way you perform at work. But it drastically does, like drastically does. So what is the proper amount of sleep that everybody should get?

Because there are some people out there that claim they can sleep on two to four hours a night, you know, and is that like BS? Like is there a different amount per person? Does it depend on your profession? How much sleep should we get? So the simple answer is that according to the American Academy of Sleep Medicine, adults need seven to nine hours of sleep. There is of course some human variability, right? So somebody may need a little bit, more somebody may need a little less, but if you're getting less than 6 hours of sleep, you're likely to be impaired.

But here's the funny part, and that might explain why people say that, oh, I can get by with less sleep. So one of the things that happens when you get less sleep on a chronic basis, so instead of getting, you know, if you need about eight hours and instead of eight hours, you're getting six and a half hours every day. And so you're sleep depri- you know, that sleep deprivation, it sort of accumulates. You get used to it, right? Yes, exactly.

So that self-perception of knowing how sleep you are, you lose that big so your judgment gets impaired. So it's very much like, you know, when you're drinking alcohol, the person who's drinking is the last person you should be asking whether they are fit to drive. Similarly, if you're getting less sleep on a chronic basis, your perception of how much sleep you need is really off. And your judgment is off. So I'm not surprised I say that they can get by with less sleep. So of course there's some variability, but yeah, that's the answer. That's really interesting because I know what you mean. I for a long time I worked in corporate and I had this podcast and so I had a very busy life where

I would get like five hours of sleep, honestly, every night max, sometimes four hours. I was really unhealthy at that time because I was just trying to make things happen, you know? And to your point, once I like quit my full-time job and became an entrepreneur and started getting more sleep, I'm like, wow, I feel so much better now that I'm getting all this sleep. Like I felt like a new person, like just so much more energetic and so much better now that I'm getting all this sleep. I felt like a new person, just so much more energetic and so much quicker. So it is true. You just get used to not getting enough sleep.

So be careful. Don't just become a chronic non-sleeper, right? I gotta say one thing. So an entrepreneur, one of the things they do is they look at ideas and see whether those ideas are valid ideas, are they ideas that are going to be useful? Well, you need judgment for that, right? And if you don't get enough sleep, your judgment is impaired.

And there's been studies that show that the ability to tell whether an idea or a business idea is viable or not is affected by how much sleep you're getting. And the other thing I say is that things like, and especially amongst the people that I work with, when it comes to like top athletes or, you know, CEOs, their emotional intelligence makes a big difference to how they're going to operate, right?

Whether they have empathy, whether they have the ability to connect with people, whether they have the ability to connect with people, whether they have the ability to motivate and inspire the people. You know, that all of that, all those the athletes I work with are elite athletes, these elite athletes, one thing that to be an elite athlete, you need to be able to recognize your emotions and you need to be able to regulate those emotions while you're playing. Everybody can play really well while you're playing. Everybody can play really well while you're practicing. But when you're out on the field or when you're on that court and you're, you know, it's the NBA game 5 going on, you have all that pressure of your coach, your family members, the fans, etc. to be able to keep

your cool then. That is what differentiates you from, you know, another elite athlete. And that gives you that competitive edge. And guess what? That emotional, every step of that emotional regulation, that is what sleep is important for. So if you don't get enough sleep, that gets dysregulated. And I want to tell people, what I'm working with, I'm like, I remind them of that. You're very young. You may not even remember. I don't know if you remember that story of Mike Tyson, he was in a fight. Only with the air. Yeah.

So when he bit the air, first of all, he immediately, he got fine $3 million, and he couldn't play, or he couldn't fight for another year, right? So that decision in which somebody said something, he got angry and decided to pay attention to the situation. And then that decision making of whether he should respond or walk away, that sort of split second decision, that's what gets impaired if you don't get enough sleep. So interesting. I'd love to understand kind of like the science behind it. There's a

couple things that really piqued my interest. The fact that you said that creativity is really impacted by how much sleep you get. And then also the judgment decision making. What's like the science behind all of that? Like why does it get impacted if you get less sleep? So what we know right now is we can tell because when you get in sleep deprivation studies that the part of the brain that are responsible for good decision making, judgment, etc. They get impaired, like they're not lighting up as much as while the amygdala which is the

emotional brain is overactive. So that's the first step in these research studies. In the second research studies, then these experiments are designed in which people are either they're sleep deprived or at another time they have get enough sleep. And then their actually, their judgment is measured. And in fact, there's this really interesting story from Harvard.

And what they found is that when sleep deprived individuals are given stimulants like caffeine or medicinal, there are drugs out there that can increase your reaction time. Well, they get less sleepy, their reaction time improves, they become faster and more accurate, but the one thing that doesn't get affected is their judgment. So they just continue to make bad decisions faster. So sleep occurs deep in the brain, and typically what happens while you're sleeping is that there is memories are played and they may be played at faster rates.

There is pruning of unnecessary information. There are more connections and circuits being formed of information that you need. There is also this function during your sleep that while you're asleep, blood rushes through your brain like a power wash and it washes out all the toxins that have accumulated during the day. And so it's the simplest way to explain it would be to think of it as a nightly reset button. So it's the same thing that happens to a machine, right? Whenever you have a machine, you have to give it some downtime so that it can recover so they can do the work again the next day. So think of it as like a nightly investment for your for optimal functioning the next day. I love that analogy and I

think it's so key to know more about sleep and to care about sleep when you spend so much time sleeping. And I feel like this is sort of, like you said, when you said it's like 30 years old, you're filled, it's just this new thing that people are starting to pay attention to, which I think is really cool. And I think there's lots of space in here to create innovation, to create companies' money. Like it's a great field to kind of look at

because I think it's really emerging. So let's talk about athletes. Since we're on the topic of athletes, do athletes need more sleep than other people? Well, so most athletes are young adults. There are studies in which these are sleep extension studies done on Stanford athletes and college athletes. And what they did is over a period of six weeks,

they made sure they were spending nine to 10 hours in bed and they found there was improvement in their reaction time in the actual games. So in basketball players the three point field goals and so the actual game improved in football players they shaved off some time of their 40 yard dash then in swimmers they were swimming faster in tennis players they were serve accuracy improved. So there was actual improvement in their performance. And so since most people are walking around with a sleep debt, they're not getting enough sleep. So for athletes, we say on a regular basis,

getting nine to 10 hours is really, really important. And Halal, this is not new information. So it at, the opportunity of Rears is used to be one of my colleagues at the Henry Ford Center. And they, they would do these studies in the late 80s. And they looked at optimal alertness. And they found that to be optimally alert the next day, some of these young adults, they needed nine or ten hours of sleep.

And what do athletes want to do? They want to be optimally alert. So there is a school of thought that says that because you're an athlete and because you want to perform at your level best, you need more sleep than somebody else. So I always tell people that, you know, sleep does not make you a better athlete. But if you're already, you know, no amount of sleep is going to make me a basketball player. However, however, when, you know, no matter sleep is going to make me a basketball player. However, however, when you're an elite athlete and you have those abilities and your competitors are also elite athletes, then that getting enough sleep gives you that competitive edge and they're always looking for that little extra that could put them over the edge as

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Sign up for a $1 per month trial period at Shopify.com-profiting. Again, go to Shopify.com-profiting all lowercase to take your business to the next level today. So let's talk about ways that we can improve our sleep. So I'm always looking for ways to maximize my time. So I'm wondering, can you get deeper sleep and then save on the amount of time that you're sleeping? So I'm wondering, can you get deeper sleep and then save on the amount of time that you're sleeping? Like, is there levels of sleep? Can you explain those levels of sleep?

And if we get really deep sleep, can we sleep less and get the same benefits or no? You're absolutely right. There are different levels or stages of sleep. Now you have to know that these stages of sleep are artificial because scientists have looked at what your brain waves look like while you're asleep and decided, well this is stage one and one and two, stage three or deep sleep and REM sleep, right? So it is artificial, it's from outside. But typically people fall into sleep through light sleep, which is stage N1, then they have some amount of N2 sleep, which is slightly deeper sleep. Then they have N3 or deep sleep or delta sleep.

And then they have some amount of dream sleep or REM sleep and then they wake up and that's an approximately 90 minute cycle. Now, first of all, every stage of sleep serves some function. So you really can't get rid of one versus the other. That would be my first point. Deep sleep or delta sleep is the most restorative. And if you were regularly not getting enough sleep, then whenever you play catch up, your brain realizes,

well, I have to recuperate the fact that this person has not been getting enough sleep, and your brain will well I have to recuperate you know the fact that this person has not been getting enough sleep and your brain will consume more deep sleep that you really can't artificially or you don't need to artificially increase the state. I can't like hack it. I can't feel like I'm more REM sleep today. Well there are devices out there. There are things out there that say you can get it can get you better deep sleep. What I'd like to see is a study that shows that, you know, getting sleep this way is better than just normal sleep. So I would say the benefit of that would be maybe in people who are older who naturally don't get enough deep sleep. So as you get older, as you age, the amount of deep sleep decreases. So that would be a good population to try this study to see if, you know, if increasing their deep sleep would actually help. So deep sleep is where your blood pressure is low,

your heart rate is low, you know, everything sort of relaxes. It's the most restorative part. If you're, you know, your muscles relax, so it sort of restores, it's where growth hormone gets secreted. So it's kind of good for an athlete, it's good for all of us.

And what dream sleep, you know, usually occurs in the second half of the night and dreams deep is where emotional context is added to your memories. And so it also serves some completely vital function. So I tell people that since every day of sleep is a percentage of the total amount of sleep, the best thing you can do, Hala, is to make sure you get enough time in bed. I know that's kind of bad news because I know you're very busy. The other way to look at it is that, and again, I think that you will relate because you're very busy and some of the CEOs and CC3 executives or athletes I work with are exactly the same boat, right?

They want to maximize the number of hours that they're working. But smart work doesn't always mean working longer, means being more effective, right? So effective work is when you can get work done. And you know, one of the things that happens when you get less sleep is there's this concept of presentism in which you're present, but you're not giving it to your level best. And that's something, you know, you want to avoid that. So it's, it's not you, if you're going to be up and you're, you know, you can't even really pay attention, can't read what's written in front of you, and you're reading the same line again and again, and you're tired,

and you're grumpy and you're, you know, making bad decisions like you said before. Yeah. Exactly. Yeah. With your making poor relationship decisions with the team that you work with. So when it comes to making sure you get enough sleep, I think I would say common sense small simple things can make a big difference. So first of all, be mindful about the amount of caffeine you're drinking. I was just going to bring up caffeine because I know that you're not really the biggest proponent of caffeine and tell me about it. Yeah. I want to tell you, caffeine is very effective. It is a performance enhancing, but when done correctly. So one of the things that happens is if you drink caffeine on a regular basis,

so if you drink one cup every day, you know, in a three weeks or so, you're going to need one and a half cups for the same effect. And you develop tolerance, and when you stop using it, you can get withdrawals. You want to use it when you actually need it, so you want to use it very strategically. But when it comes to sleep, as if you drink it too close to your bedtime, then it's going to make it difficult for you to go to sleep. So, half life is about five to six hours. And so, if you drink a double espresso before you go to bed, well, guess what?

If you're going to sleep poorly. And sometimes, some people are so sleep-deprived that it doesn't matter, they'll still fall asleep. But then, in that case, they won't get enough deep sleep. So, what good is that doing? So monitor how much caffeine you're drinking, especially, and lots of people will work out in the evenings. So some of your energy drinks,

pre-opost workout drinks may contain caffeine, so you want to pay attention to that. The second thing I would say is pay attention to alcohol use. So alcohol, it may help you fall asleep faster, but then it disrupts your sleep as the night progresses. That's not a good thing. Again, similarly, be careful about nicotine or anything, any such thing. The third thing of course is just, you know, electronic use. So it's, it's, and especially, I mean, for somebody who's really busy, maybe working with clients

who are all over the world, working at different time zones, and then, you know, you want you feel that you always have to stay connected, keep your cell phone on or your email on all the time. Well, you're not going to get good sleep. So there's actually a study, Hala, it was done in training doctors, I think. And what it's found is that if you're on call and you're phone to next to you, even if you don't get called in time late, you don't sleep very well. Because that anticipation that you're going to get called. And I'm sure that you have people, you know people who relate to that, that they always feel that somebody might be pinging them, somebody might be trying to get in touch with them. And so for that reason, electronics might not be a very good idea. This episode of YAP is brought to you by Apostrophe Skincare. Do you have a cabinet full of acne

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yap. Again, that's gusto. G-U-S-T-O.com slash yap. I'm telling you, you're going to love gusto. Get started today. Super interesting. So I just wanna dig deeper on the caffeine, coffee thing and just make sure I got this right. So you don't recommend that, like, you know, most people wake up, and first thing they do is make a cup of coffee. You don't recommend making it a part of your routine

like that. You recommend using coffee when you just need it. You can definitely drink coffee, I love drinking coffee. Me too. If you can make it a regular part of your schedule, if you want to do it, you can do it in the morning, you can do it, you know, a couple of hours after you wake up, you know, what's up there, there are different schools of thought. What I would say is that if you need caffeine to get through your day and you can't get through the day without caffeine, that should be a sign to you that you need to do something

that you sleep. Does that make sense? Yeah. And a lot of good athletes will do that, you know, on a regular basis. They may have a cup of coffee in the morning, but they will drink that additional cup in the evening or caffeine, energy drink in the evening only before the game because they know they need that extra energy. That is a strategic way of using caffeine. If you were traveling and you were jet lag, then strategically using caffeine at certain times to make

sure you had you were alert, that would be the right thing to do. Well, since you brought up jet lag, I'd love for you to explain what jet lag is. And then also something that you specifically talk about, I think you coined this social jet lag. I'd love to hear about both of those two things. So let's back up and for your audience, let's explain to them what a circadian clock or a biologist. Sure, that's a great place. So now, since we live on this rotating rock and because we have alternating night and dark, so all organisms, including human beings, we've developed cellular clocks. So in for us, for you, I, and most adults,

we have a clock in our brain. And the clock is an intrinsic time keeping clock, and it's about approximately, circumference approximately 24 hours. And so even though it's intrinsic on a daily basis, it's reset by exposure to light and dark. So since I'm in Michigan, my clock is set to Michigan time. You know, so that's what happens.

So it's synchronized to the local time zone. And so in addition to that clock in the brain, in fact, every cell in your body and every physiological function has a circadian clock. So there's a certain time where some functions, they peak and there's a certain time that they tend to have. So that clock in your brain is like a master conductor and then all the other clocks in every other cell, they're keeping time and the master conductor, they all coordinate.

I mean, that's what you want them to do. And you want it so every cell has a clock because a cell has to have timing because a cell can't grow and die at the same time. There has to be a time where it takes in nutrition, utilizes the nutrition as active and as resting. So the cell also has to have timed functions. Okay, that was my history lesson. I'm done with that. I'm done with that. So we have this clock in our

brain. It's synchronized to your local time. If you took a jet and you rapidly cross time zones and you got to a new time zone, your clock would be out of sync at the new time zone. So if I took a plane from here and I flew to London, which is five hours ahead of me, I would have difficulty initiating sleep at the London time, I would have difficulty maintaining sleep, and I would be sleepy during the day. And I'd have GI stomach upset, because all my clocks would be scrambling to get in sync

with the new time zone. That is what jet lag is. And then social jet lag, which is what most people do, is when during the weekday or your work week, you go to bed at a certain time and you wake up. So, supposing on a work week, you go to bed about 11 and you wake up, get out of bed at 7, right? Or midnight and 7 in the morning. But then here comes the weekend and instead of going to bed at midnight, you go to bed at 3 in the morning. And then you sleep until noon. And you do that every weekend. And then, of course, on Monday, on Sunday night, it's more difficult for you to go back to sleep and in regular time

because you've been going to bed so late. So without taking a plane, it's like you've taken a plane and you've flown to California every weekend. And that's why it's called social jet lag. And people do this on a regular basis. And what they found is that when people do this, it has effects on detrimental effects on your cardio metabolic health. So that's not good for you. So I'm assuming you should try to keep a regular routine even through the weekend. And then any tips for if we have jet lag or had a kind of counteract that or get ourselves more acclimated once we, you know, for on business travel

and we have to do a good job and we don't can't really be jet lagged for a few days. Like what do you recommend? So first of all, let's back up and I want to tell you something when you talked about you know, regularity. The one thing that your circadian clock does, Haller, is it also decides whether you're a morning clerk or you're a night owl or you're an intermediate person, right? So let me just ask you, let me, I'm going to put you on the spot here. What time do you prefer to go to bed? If you don't have anywhere to go, what time would you like to go to sleep? Okay. If you didn't have anywhere to go, what time would you like to go to sleep?

Okay. And what time would you... If you didn't have anywhere to go, what time would you like to wake up? 9 AM. 9 AM. So 1 to 9, so you're definitely a night out. Right? Now in contrast, I'm a morning person. So I like to go to bed between and say, nah, 9.30. And then I like to wake up at 5 in the morning.

So I want your audience to understand what that means. So for example, when the clock says midnight on the wall, midnight for me is the middle of the night. For you, it's not even the beginning of your night. Midnight is like, I should probably start making my way to bed. That's what I do. That's what I do. Midnight meets to me. Exactly. Right. But do you see how biologically how different we are? Yeah. And that is just something that people are, you know, that's just

that's interesting information and an actionable information that you can use to change things and maybe even change the way you work the next day. Because for you to be optimally, like you are probably full of energy between 8 p.m. and 11 30 at night. You could probably do your best work there. You're most creative, yes? 100% and it actually works out for me because half my team is overseas. And then I have to hop on calls 8 9 PM, but I'm still rocking, you know, so it works for me. Right. So for me, if I had to do something really, really important, if I had an important project, and I had to do like deep thinking knowledge work in which I wanted to give it my level best, I would schedule it between five and 10 in the morning. Because I'm wide awake then, I'm very creative

at that time. That's the time I want to pay attention to things. I really think that this is going to be the wave of the future. Because sleeping in alignment to your biological clock. If you're able to do that, that is wonderful. In fact, I know David introduced me to this young entrepreneur, he's based on the East Coast and, doing really, really well. And one of the main reasons he wanted to talk to me is because he was like you, Anaitau, and he bought meetings began at 8 in the morning and we slowly over the next two years moved those meetings to about 10 in the morning. So that he could adjust, you know, because he was the boss and he could adjust to all these things and of course there were other things that he didn't need to do because as a night owl, you know that if you started watching Netflix at one o'clock or whatever, at 12.30, you could easily be up for another two hours, yes?

Yeah, only thing is I don't watch TV, but yes, in theory, yes. But for some people, so it would be easy for somebody who's playing video games or doing something that is distracting them to keep themselves awake. So of course there is some There is the ability to shift your clock. So I just wanted to bring this up because people don't really sleep according to their Biologically clocks and then and then because they don't even identify where they lie on long the spectrum They have difficulty deciding what the right thing for them to do is. And so that's the one. And number two is that for JetLag and one of the things, really the simplest way to do this would be by strategically using light and maybe even melatonin to help people adjust to the new time zone.

And it's difficult for me to, the easiest way to do this would be by individual, because when I work with teams, so that's what I do. In fact, I have a couple of game balls here from NFL teams because I've helped them when they've traveled to London to play there and they've been successful. And last year I worked, I did some work for the LA Lakers and when they were going to China and then few of the majorly baseball teams when they were going to China and then a few of the majorly baseball teams and they were going to Tokyo, etc. to help. And that's what I'm doing, but you know, you as soccer. So that they can perform right when they get there and be on the ball. It's really interesting stuff. And I guess the question that like as you're talking, I guess I'm

starting to wonder like, am I really an idol or did I just like fall into this because I had a side hustle for so long and had to stay up late and just never got out of the habit? You know what I mean? I just wonder, like, how do I know if that's really me or just some routine that I've built for myself? What a very good question. So first of all, this genetic predisposition

is typically genetic. So either you of all, this genet is predisposition is typically genetic. So either you've inherited it from either your mother or your father. That's why I tell young adults that it doesn't matter how far you move from your home, your parents will decide what time you put it back because genetic. That's what they do. The second thing is that there are some clinically validated questionnaires you can use. So, that is actually one of the things that I, you know, when I'm working with teams etc. Or when I'm working with one on one is to try and identify exactly where they lie on that spectrum because you're absolutely right.

I mean, we do live in this hustle culture where it's really important to be up all the time and, you know, you do your creative work in the evening. But my suspicion, my suspicion would be having just talked to you, is that you are a night out. You know maybe if you put the phone away a little bit earlier or if you put your work away, you know it would be easier for you to to fall asleep. But on the other hand, you know as long as you're getting enough sleep and if this works for you, why not? Well, now I'm at the bus, so it doesn't matter.

I keep scheduling my calls whenever I want that. So that is important because a lot of people can't do that. A lot of people, they do have difficulty. But to be able to identify that, and I think if you think at the turn of the century when the industrial revolution came about, the way to get people to work was to set these hours, you have to be at work at seven. And then this is where your first shift would end.

And this is how it would work. I mean, we've come a long, long way, you know, work. And especially the last two years have done a lot. 100% has taught us that we have, I to tell people that it's what it's taught us is that that the focus of control is within us. And we can, you know, there's something that we really should try and and get a handle on and sleep is one of them. It's like a, it's a trainable skill. Yeah, it really does feel like the larks have really made all the rules in terms of like what's normal and then the night owls, I feel like do struggle. I think a lot of night owls become

entrepreneurs. I really believe that. I feel like most entrepreneurs that I know are night owls. And I wonder if it's because they just don't fit into the work culture that's available right now. And there may be, you know, I don't know if it's been studied, but there is definitely, it could be true because they say that, you know, there are some night owls who choose to do the night shift because that's the time they're most, or I would say, even the reverse will be true. So if you're totally a morning person, and the worst thing you can do to yourself is to do the night shift or the late afternoon shift because it'll definitely eat into your sleep time and you're going to, you know, you're going to get,

you're not going to be sleeping in alignment to your clock and say, you're going to have the detrimental health effects from that. Yeah, and I know me being an idol and working in corporate for so many years, I remember like I used to go to work and be productive but then I would go home and do more work at like eight nine because like I would be on fire and like, productive, but then I would go home and do more work at like eight, nine, because I would be on fire and like, okay, let me just get ahead. So that tomorrow's great, you know, because I'm an overachiever.

And I'm sure that's tough, like having to basically work twice just because it's not in your normal rhythm, you know? So definitely something to pay attention to and you guys should think about whether you're a lark or a night owl. I want to talk about naps next. Yes. So, what is the importance of naps?

Are you a proponent of naps? What's the best way to nap? I'd love to hear your input on that. So, the simplest way to approach it would be to see that if at night you don't get enough sleep, it's not a bad idea to make sure you get enough sleep, to make up for it by taking a nap. Now, there are two, three things about when it comes to a nap. The first thing is the timing of the,

or the length of the nap. A power nap would be 15 to 20, 25 minutes. And that's what astronauts do. It's called the NASA nap, in which, you know, you give yourself about 25 minutes of sleep time, and it takes you about maybe a few minutes to fall asleep, and then you wake up and you walk on up from light sleep, and that's very refreshing. The second length would be about 30 to 35 minutes

then you get a little bit of N2 sleep which is slightly deeper sleep that too is very refreshing and then of course there's the grand daddy nap which is what most NBA players and NHL players do which is you know they sleep for a full sleep cycle or like a 90 or 120 minutes in which they've consumed a good amount of chunk of sleep during the day. I would say the one thing you don't want to do is you don't want to wake up from a nap between 45 minutes to an hour because then you may wake up from deep sleep and if you wake up from deep sleep you're going to be groggy for a while and so that's a bad thing. Now that's not a hard and fast rule because if you are very, very sleep deprived, anytime you go

to sleep, remember how I said your brain will try to consume as much deep sleep. So you may go into deep sleep even faster. So I would say still taking an app is beneficial because you obviously you needed to sleep which is why you fell asleep when you were trying to take a nap. When the timing is, there's a timing, Hala, so in the mid afternoon, there's usually a dip in our alerting signal and the sick from the circadian clock, so there's a time in the afternoon

when we are likely to be tired. For me, it's between 1.30 and 4 p.m. For you, it may be later, because you're on a night out. So that's a good time to take a nap. And the sad thing is, you don't want to nap too close to your bedtime. So you don't want to nap, you know, that's three hours before your bedtime, because then you're going to take away from that sleep drive that's going to help you fall asleep. When I tell athletes, like, if you take a nap, wake up for sleep, be awake for at least two hours before

that actual game. So you're not druggy at all. Yeah, that's super helpful. I actually learned about something called a napachino from be awake for these two hours before the actual game. So you're not groggy at all. Yeah, that's super helpful. I actually learned about something called a napachino from Daniel Pink who is on my show. And he gave the recommendation to basically have a coffee, take a 20-minute nap, then wake up, and you feel like a rock star.

I've used that hack so many times when I've like, if I had insomnia, sometimes I get, we can talk about this. Sometimes I get insomnia, especially if I'm feeling anxious or excited about something. I have a very hard time sleeping. And it's the worst because it's usually when I have like some big test or the most important moments

of my life, I've been sleep deprived. It's been horrible. Like literally every time I had some huge thing I had to try out for, I had insomnia, like just had to deal with being on no sleep. So very familiar with that terrible situation happening, which I'd love to get some input on. But anyway, what do you think about the nappuccino before we move on to insomnia and anxiety?

Well, nappuccino is fine. I mean, what's happening is so that a caffeine takes about 15 to maybe 30, 20, 25 minutes to take effect. And so if you take a nap in between, then you wake up from your nap and you're, that's refreshing and then you add caffeine to it and that's refreshing too. So, so you're all for the naficino. Yes, but here's what I want to tell you about what you were talking about the insomnia. And I want your audience to recognize the difference between sleep deprivation and insomnia that you're describing.

So what we've been talking about, Halla, so far is not getting it to bed on time because people are so busy. That's sleep deprivation. So let me give you an example. So if I went to bed, if I, you know, flew into town and went to bed at about one in the morning And I had to be up at five that meant I'd get four hours of sleep That sleep deprivation If however, I got into bed at 10 pm and then I got really anxious about this big interview I had with Hala I did not fall asleep till about one o'clock in the morning and then woke up at 5.

Now, I'd still be getting about 4 hours of sleep, but that's insomnia. So insomnia is difficulty initiating and maintaining sleep despite the opportunity to do so. Because I had the opportunity to sleep. It's not as I didn't even get to bed, but I couldn't fall asleep. And insomnia and sleep deprivation are two totally different things. And it's important when somebody is being evaluated. So one of the things that I do is when I'm first talking to a client or a patient or an athlete or whoever I'm working with is to get a complete history as to why they may have insomnia. So for you, Hala, if you went to bed at decided to go to bed at 11 o'clock and couldn't

fall asleep till about 130 and you said, well, I can't fall asleep, I have insomnia. Well, that's basically because you're a night-hallean and you try to go to sleep at a time that's not your better. Or you went into bed at 130, but there was a lot of external noise, and you were in a very noisy place, or you were in a hotel room where there was like a party going on. Couldn't fall asleep. That would be more likely to be sleep deprivation, because you couldn't fall asleep.

But if you got into bed and you were worried, and you were really anxious about the next day, and you couldn't fall asleep. But if you got into bed and you were worried and you were really anxious about the next day and you couldn't turn your mind off and couldn't fall asleep, that's insomnia. And yeah, I tell people having an occasion night of insomnia is not a reason to worry. So if you are a good sleeper on most times, most nights. But on the occasion like you sleep really poorly, what does it matter? You sleep well, you know, the next night. And in fact, the more if you start being attention to it and start stressing out about it, then it's going to become a problem. Because now when you're going to get performance anxiety about sleep, and then you're going to develop chronic insomnia. And so it's one thing that I tell CEOs that if you try to get good sleep on a regular basis,

occasionally before a board meeting or before a big day, if you sleep poorly, yeah, don't worry about it. Because that's the only way to approach it. Occasionally, poor nights of sleep, part of life, right? That's the life we would live. So that's okay. But if it happens

on a chronic basis, and if it starts interfering with your day-to-day function, then it's a problem. Then it should be it. Yeah, bam. If you're ready to take your business to New Heights, break through to the six or seven-figure mark or learn from the world's most successful people, look no further because the Kelly Roach show has got you covered. Kelly Roach is a best-selling author, a top-ranked podcast host, and an extremely talented marketer. She's the owner of Not One, but six thriving companies, and now she's ready to share her knowledge and experience with you on the Kelly Roach show. Kelly is an inspirational entrepreneur, and I highly respect her.

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and my personal favorite way to learn is their audio mode to listen on the go. That way, I can multitask while I learn. Get unlimited access to every class, and right now, as the app listener, you can get 15% off when you go to masterclass.com-profiting. That's masterclass.com-profiting for 15% off an annual membership. Masterclass.com slash profiting. Let's just use me as an example. Let's just go for it because I think it will help everybody. So for me, I feel like I think it's gotten better and to your point, I think it's gotten better because I've relaxed about my sleep a bit.

But for a long time, like, especially when I was getting my MBA, I got a 4.0. I was obsessed with being number one. Every time I had a test or had to do a presentation, all I would do is just think about the answers, think about what I have to say, think about replay the speech in my head, and just wouldn't fall asleep. I would try so hard, but all I would do is just keep thinking and thinking and thinking about what I have to do tomorrow

and how I have to perform and what I need to do. And I still did a good job somehow the next day, but almost like I said, almost every big test I ever took or every big presentation I had in my MBA, I did so on literally maybe an hour or two of sleep every time, which stinks that that happened, but I still was made it happen, but it was just like, you know, I would end up sleeping

on my desk after the test, you know, because I would be exhausted and would just have this burst of energy and then just like kind of just be dead for the rest of the day. So I'd love to hear like, what do we do when we're in those moments when we're just so anxious and overthinking, which I think is a lot of insomnia for me at least. Yes, yes, and I'll tell you, for all of us, I think it's very important to build a winding down to get you. And in addition to the alarm you have at night, you know, in the morning, a certain alarm at night that tells you, well, now's the time that you're going to start your winding down. And a part of the winding down could be a hot shower or a hot bath and any sort of relaxation. So, you know, stretching exercises, you could do. I love what you said. Just I just want to point this out.

And alarm clock to go to sleep. That's brilliant. Yes. Yeah. Yeah. Not just go to sleep, but to say, well, now, like, let's stop with the work. Right. Let's stop with, you know, responding to emails. Let's stop doing things on the phone. Let's stop responding to things and let's start the process of going to bed. And it's really important and it's more important, the more stressful day you've had. And the analogy I like to give is about a phone aeroplane. I get, when a large aeroplane or even a small plane, when it's about to land, it doesn't just flop and like land.

It does all these maneuvers, it's like reduces its high altitude and then, you know, kind of slows down and then it comes and lands. That's exactly what you need to do to allow sleep to happen. And the tools that you can use is you can stretching exercises, meditation, reading a book, listening to a podcast, which is something quiet and relaxing. And oftentimes that is necessary, especially in the situation you describe in which you have difficulty turning your mind off. So really, you can't really command yourself to stop thinking, but you can replace it by thinking about something else.

And if you can try to read, or you can try to do other things that will take your mind off, that will allow sleep to happen. And also to have a practice of either meditation or mindfulness, especially during the days a good idea, because you know if you're meditating, you become really focused, you know your mind cleared, you become really focused, you know, your mind cleared, you become very calm, you are very collected. And you want to be able to use that in those stressful situations, like trying to fall asleep. And there's this thing called, so with this altered state of meditation,

you know, you have this state in which the circuitry of your brain is kind of altered in which you're really focused and relaxed. And you want to be able to use that, it becomes like almost like a trade that you use at night. So that if you do wake up, the same way that you're looking at your, during the day, how meditation or mindfulness teaches used to be non-judgmental and, you know, relaxed, you want to be less judgmental about your sleep too and not imagine yourself that I'm not sleeping, you know, not looking at the clock, etc. So

those are all things that one can do to help you relax. And like I said, you know, occasionally getting a poor night of sleep is perfectly fine. If it becomes a chronic thing, speak to your primary care doctor. You know, the American Academy of Sleep Medicine and there are a lot of behavioral sleep medicine specialists, and all they do is, you know, give you clinically validated therapy. Yeah, I mean, I somehow I grew out of it, and I think it's to your point, I was so fixated on, I can't sleep, I can never sleep, I have insomnia, and for two years, I just felt like I always had insomnia. Now, I have like interview Matthew McConehey and have no trouble sleeping.

Like it makes no sense. I'm like, why was I so nervous about my MBA presentation, but I can interview Matthew McConehey now and get fine sleep? That points towards your wiser, too. Right, and you're used to this. It's these are things that have happened and have come with time to you. This is really interesting. I can't tell you how often I start working with people.

And you know, we have our first meeting and I take like a sleep way. History gives them some pointers and they're like, I'm sleeping. So why not talking to you? Because that stress about thinking that their sleep is really bad and you know, judging their own sleep or being really angry about the fact that they're unable to sleep, while everybody else is sleeping well and there's nothing as aggravating as, you know, turning on and looking at your bedparkins, fast asleep and maybe snoring or something. You see how irritating it that can be.

So, you know, it's a process. Cool. Well, I feel like this has been such a valuable interview. I've had so much fun talking about sleep. Who knew sleep could be so interesting. Let's talk about your world series, ring, because I'd love for you to flash that up. Show us what that looks like. And then tell us what you did to earn that ring. What are some of the things that you did with that team? So I worked in 2019, I worked with the Washington Nationals, and did the same thing that I actually do with most teams, in which it just sleep education,

screening, talking to them on an individual basis, and really helping them with their travel. So this was that year, the Washington Nationals, won the only World Series they've had in their franchisee, and they won all their away games, because we really worked hard on this schedule, making sure that they were well rested when they showed up while they were playing.

And yeah, it was pretty darn amazing. That is amazing. I mean, like what a notch on your belt to say that you have that. So the last question that I ask, oh my guess, and this is your opportunity to give us any sort of gem that you haven't really uncovered yet, is what is your secret to profiting in life? I would say having genuine relationships.

The kind of work that you and I do, Carla, it's all about building relationships. Like I said, I have never advertised. It's always, when I work with somebody, I give it my level best and then maybe go beyond. And it's very rewarding. And I know that somehow it will come back. And even if it does, it's And it's very rewarding. And I know that it, you know, somehow it will come back. And even if it does, it's because it's rewarding, it's worth it. I think that's really, really great.

And so I love that. And where can our listeners go learn more about you and everything that you do? So I do have a website. It's metersyncmd.com. And I'll send it to you so we can post links. I'm on LinkedIn as me doesing MD. I'm on Twitter as athlete sleep MD. One, I'm on Instagram as athlete sleep MD. That's it. I'm thinking about starting a YouTube page. I haven't done that yet. I probably need you, Holly. The best. Yeah, we gotta talk. But yeah, I will stick all of your social links in there. Dr. Mita, this was a wonderful interview. I think that we explored so many different topics

about sleep that we haven't heard before yet on this podcast. So I appreciate all your time and your wisdom. Thank you so much. Oh, thank you for having me, Hala. Thanks for listening to Young and Profiting Podcast. If you haven't yet, please take a few minutes to subscribe to the show so you're always alerted when we drop a new episode.

And while you're at it, if you have found value in this podcast, if you learned some new sleep tips, drop us a five star review. Let me know how you're going to put all these tips into practice from Dr. Meeta. Wow, that conversation was super eye opening, but don't open your eyes too wide because my goal is for everybody listening to get some great sleep tonight. Dr. Mita says that we spend a third of our lives sleeping, and while we're asleep, our brain is disengaged from our environment and unresponsive. It forces our body to rest.

Sleep is absolutely essential for functioning. We need sleep for our reaction time, for good judgment, to pay attention, and even effects are creativity. Without sleep, we're less likely to be able to cope with life's stressors. I have definitely experienced the effects of a lack of sleep. There was a point where I was only getting about five hours of sleep a night when I was working YAP as my side hustle and had this agency. I had a podcast and I had a job at Disney. And I was really ineffective.

I remember feeling so sleepy throughout the day. And once I started to get more sleep once I became an entrepreneur and could manage my own schedule, I really have felt much more energetic, much more high performing. And it goes to show that getting your sleep is super important. Meeta said that when we get less sleep, we make decisions that are overly emotional and our prefrontal cortex, which is the part of the brain that is responsible for good judgment gets impaired. Everyone wants to do their best and go above and beyond in their job. So in order to do that, everybody tuning in, you got to get that seven-9 hours of sleep to achieve your peak performance. Remember that smart work doesn't

mean working longer. It means being present and giving it our very best. And so in order to do that, you've got to prioritize your sleep that is step number one. I also think what Mita said about caffeine was really interesting. If you drink caffeine on a daily basis, you're going to develop a tolerance and eventually have withdrawals. So Mita says that we can drink coffee on a regular basis, but if we need caffeine to get through the day, then that's a sign that we're in trouble and we need to kind of pull back on our caffeine intake. So give it a test, see how you react when you don't have caffeine and try to just keep it to one cup in the morning and that's it. Don't overdo it with your caffeine intake.

So there's lots of high performers out there who get the right amount of sleep. So take Bill Gates, for example. Bill Gates used to pull all nighters all the time when he was at the beginning of his career at Microsoft. And I think this is a theme when it comes to new entrepreneurs. You tend to just work, work, work, work, work. And you de-priorchize your sleep. And what Bill Gates says, he says, I knew I wasn't as sharp

when I was operating mostly on caffeine and adrenaline. But I was obsessed with my work. And I felt like sleeping was lazy. So that's what he said. I can totally relate to that. I feel like when I sleep too much, I'm being lazy, but you've got to turn that thinking on its head. Now the billionaire Bill Gates,

he gets at least seven hours of sleep, and he says that even if you're convinced, otherwise you've got to get that much sleep. So Bill Gates says at least seven hours a night. Now let's think about Jeff Bezos. He's the Amazon founder. He gets eight hours of sleep. And he says that that amount of sleep helps

and make high-level decisions that are necessary for his being a senior executive. And he says eight hours of sleep makes a big difference for me. I try hard to make that a priority. For me to feel energized and excited, I need eight hours of sleep. So Jeff Bezos needs eight hours of sleep, Bill Gates needs seven. And let's take an athlete LeBron James

So LeBron James is rumored to sleep as much as 12 hours per day During his season and in the off season he tries to get at least nine hours So LeBron really prioritizes his sleep and he says that is the best way for him to recover So my main takeaway in all of this is that we are all biologically different. I think the amount of sleep that we need depends on our profession. If we're an athlete, we need more sleep. If you're something like a surgeon

and you are in high-stake situations where if you're not alert, you could jeopardize someone's life or maybe even a cop, you should get at least eight hours or nine hours of sleep. I think the more high stakes your job is, the more sleep that you need, the more decision making that you do, the more sleep that you need. So evaluate your particular situation and then also look at your habits, your own biological clock. If you're a night owl or if you're a morning lark, you've got to know

these things. You've got to know yourself and know when you work a morning clerk, you've got to know these things, you've got to know yourself, and know when you work your best, and when you need to be going to sleep, and when you need to be waking up. So take the time to actually evaluate your sleep schedule, and experiment until you find something that really works for you. If you like this episode, be sure to check out one of our most highly downloaded episodes about sleep. It's number 12 unlocking the power of sleep with Dr. Daniel Gartenberg. He is a wonderful guest and we had a great conversation. We talked a lot about sleep on topics that we didn't cover during this episode. So here's a clip from that episode. It's better to make up for your sleep than to not, but that being said, you can't fully make up for the sleep that you've lost in terms of the impact that it has on your body. There are ways to adjust your schedule

so that sort of a radic bedtime wake time from the weekday to the weekends is less dramatic for the body. So a simple hack to get better quality sleep is to have a consistent sleep wake schedule because that entranged your body for when it should be awake and it should be asleep and that actually improves your sleep quality. And so when you have an erratic bedtime that kind of makes it for example more difficult to fall asleep on a Sunday when you were out till three o'clock or it's all over whatever on that Saturday and you sleep until 11. So like here's a real simple hack is if you're out late on a Saturday try not to sleep

in too much and then take a power nap during your circadian dip in order to make sure you can get through the day but also make sure that you're tired when you want to go to bed at around 11 p.m. Again, if you liked this episode with Dr. Mita and want to learn more about the importance of sleep, check out number 12 unlocking the power of sleep with Dr. Daniel Gartenberg. As always, I want to shout out one of our recent Apple podcast reviewer and this week's shout out goes to Ray D Lopez. Ray says, timeless wisdom you can use throughout your journey. As a young safety professional, this podcast has been a great tool and my success.

Even from the first episode, first impressions, the podcast has helped me develop communication, organization, and leadership skills. What's awesome about this show is regardless of when the episode was aired, it can still be used today. I'm so glad you started this. Thank you so much, Ray. I'm so glad I started Young and Profiting podcasts as well. I love hearing from our listeners, and I love the fact that you listened all the way back to episode number one.

I'm actually thinking about putting that up as a replay soon because it was such a good episode, even though it was my first episode and I spent months putting that one together. So if you guys want to check that out, episode number one, first impressions, it was an amazing one. And to everybody listening out there, even if you're a new listener and old listener, write us a review on Apple Podcasts. That is the number one way to think is here at Young and Profiting Podcasts.

It is a free and effective way to support the show. You can write it on Apple podcasts, cast box, pod bean, wherever you listen to the show. And you guys can also find me on social media. So I'm on Instagram at Yap with Hala or LinkedIn, just search my name. It's Hala Ta-Ha. And if you guys listened all the way to the end of the show, take a screenshot of this app, you've got some bragging rights right now. Take a screenshot of this app right now. Then upload it to your story. Tag me at Yap with Hala. I will reshare it to all my followers

and give you a thank you. And we can connect. You can let me know what you thought about the episode. So I'd love to see you guys on social media. Tag me in your story at Yap with Hala. And big thanks to my amazing Yapp team, as always, I couldn't do this without you guys. This is Hala, signing off. Are you looking for ways to be happier, healthier, more productive, and more creative? I'm Gretchen Ruben, the number one best-selling author of the Happiness Project. And every week, we share ideas and practical solutions on the Happier with Gretchen Ruben podcast. My co-host and Happiness Guinea Pig is my sister Elizabeth Kraft.

That's me, Elizabeth Kraft, a TV writer and producer in Hollywood. Join us as we explore fresh insights from cutting edge science, ancient wisdom, pop culture, and our own experiences about cultivating happiness and good habits. Every week we offer a try this at home tip you can use to boost your happiness without spending a lot of time energy or money. Suggestions such as follow the one minute rule. Choose a one word theme for the year or design your summer. We also feature segments like know yourself better where we discuss questions like are you an over buyer or an under buyer?

Morning person or night person, abundance lever or simplicity lever? And every episode includes a happiness hack, a quick, easy shortcut to more happiness. Listen and follow the podcast, Happier with Gretchen Rubin.