Young and Profiting with Hala Taha - Gretchen Rubin: Crush Your 2022 Goals | E151

Episode Date: January 17, 2022

There’s no one-size-fits-all solution for becoming happier and more productive!  This week on YAP, we’re chatting with Gretchen Rubin! Gretchen is a 5X Best Selling Author, Speaker, “Self-Help Queen”, and Happiness Expert. She is known as an influential and thought-provoking observer of happiness and human nature.  In today’s episode, we’ve compiled the most actionable of Gretchen’s knowledge in one place. We’ll yap about how to make your goals for the new year fun and attainable by choosing a theme like UPGRADE or a phrase like Walk 20 in 2020 that makes taking action easy! We learn how to personalize goal setting by covering the famous 4-tendencies: Upholder, Questioner, Obliger, or Rebel and how these personalities should best approach their desired outcomes. Lastly, Gretchen teaches us how to form new and helpful habits. She shares her delightful challenge this year of Rest for 22 minutes each day in 2022 and explains how habits and goals don’t have to be extravigaint, but can be boring!  It’s never too late to start a new year’s resolution! Make sure to listen and learn how to do it right in this week's episode!  Sponsored by -  Prose - Take your FREE in-depth hair consultation and get 15% off your first order today! Go to Prose.com/YAP. Shopify - Go to shopify.com/profiting, for a FREE fourteen-day trial and get full access to Shopify’s entire suite of features. BrandCrowd - Check out brandcrowd.com/yap to learn more, play with the tool for free, and get 73% off your purchase.   Jordan Harbinger - Check out jordanharbinger.com/start for some episode recommendations. Athletic Greens - Visit athleticgreens.com/YAP and get FREE 1 year supply of immune-supporting Vitamin D AND 5 FREE travel packs with your first purchase. Blinkist - Go to Blinkist.copm/YAP to start your free 7 day trial and get 25% off of a Blinkist Premium membership. Social Media:  Follow YAP on IG: www.instagram.com/youngandprofiting Reach out to Hala directly at [e-mail] Follow Hala on Linkedin: www.linkedin.com/in/htaha/ Follow Hala on Instagram: www.instagram.com/yapwithhala Follow Hala on Clubhouse: @halataha Check out our website to meet the team, view show notes and transcripts: www.youngandprofiting.com Timestamps: (0:00) - Hala welcomes Gretchen to the show  (1:27) - The Concept of Drifting in Life (3:20) - Gretchen’s Career Pivot From Law To Research & Writing (5:30) - Importance of Loving to Talk About Your Job (6:30) - Drifting In The Age of Covid (9:12) - New Year's Resolutions/ Temporal Landmarks (12:22) - Correlation Between Goals and Happiness (14:14) - Setting a One Word Theme For Our Year (17:20) - Gretchen’s Concept of 22 in 22 (18:29) - Gretchen Describes Her Tasting Parties (20:20) - Should We Place Boundaries When Setting Goals (23:15) - Sticking To Your Goals/ Four Personality Types (24:24) - Upholders (24:43) - Questioners (25:16) - Obligers (26:00) - Rebels (27:00) - Gretchen’s Four Tendencies Test (30:00) - How Does Each Personality Type Stick To Their Goals (30:10) - How Rebels Stick to Goals (33:20) - How Obligers Stick To Goals (35:45) - Can We Grow Into a Different Personality Type?  (39:10) - Why Obligers Are Not People Pleasers  (40:10) - How Questioners Stick to Goals (42:42) - What is the Arrival Fallacy? (45:45) - Gretchen’s Approach to Breaking Bad Habits (49:20) - What is Gretchen’s 22 Minutes of Rest for 2022 Challenge? (51:55) - Getting More Sleep to Be Happier (56:08) - What is the one actionable thing that our listeners can do today to be more profiting tomorrow? (59:45) - Gretchen’s Secret To Profiting In Life Mentioned In The Episode: Better Than Before (Gretchen’s book): https://gretchenrubin.com/books/better-than-before/about-the-book/  The Four Tendencies (Gretchen’s book): https://gretchenrubin.com/books/the-four-tendencies/intro/  Take The Quiz: Gretchenrubin.com/take-the-quiz Happiness with Gretchen Rubin: https://gretchenrubin.com/podcasts/ Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

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If you're smart and like to continually improve yourself, hit the subscribe button because you'll love it here at Young & Profiting Podcast. This week on YAP, we're chatting with Gretchen Rubin. Gretchen first came on YAP back in episode number 28 to talk about decluttering our environment with her outer order inner calmer methodology. Gretchen is a five-time best-selling author, speaker, self-help queen, and happiness expert. She's known as an influential and thought-provoking observer of happiness, human nature, habits, and productivity. After leaving her career in law,

she began living her dream as a writer and has gained enormous readership over the last decade. Her books have sold more than 3.5 million copies. She's a columnist for O, The Oprah Magazine, and makes regular appearances on CBS this morning. Along with her writing, she co-hosts a top podcast called Happier with Gretchen Rubin alongside her sister. Happier was an Apple Best Podcast of 2015 and won a 2020 WebView Award for the Best of the Internet. In today's episode, we'll yap about how to make your goals for the new year fun and attainable

by doing things like choosing a one-word theme to represent your year. We'll learn how to customize our goal setting and execution based on our personality types. And we'll gain insight as to how Gretchen thinks we can all live our happiest year yet. If you've got big plans for 2022, you're going to love this episode. Hey Gretchen, welcome back to a Young and Profiting podcast. So happy to have you back. I'm so happy to be back. It's great to talk to you again.

Yes, so Gretchen, you came back on, you were previously on an episode number 29 back when we were just starting out at Young and Profiting podcasts. Now, two years later, we're a number one podcast across all apps, so much has changed. If you guys are watching us on YouTube right now, you can see my half-endage studio.

Gretchen is the first person I'm interviewing in my studio. What you guys don't see is I've got a million blankets and pillows around me because I don't have my soundproofing yet. But you know how it is, Gretchen. We've all done it. Yes. Yes. So you are a world famous author. You're an expert on happiness and habits. And one of the things that I wanted to talk to you about today was resolutions and how to be happier in the new year. And to kick things off, I want to hear about your career journey for my listeners that may not be familiar with your story. And I encourage everyone to go back to episode

number 29 if you want to learn more about Gretchen's come up. But for those of us who've never heard your story before, talk to us about your journey into becoming a researcher and a writer, and you're starting to law school, which you say you drifted into law school. And drift is actually word that you invented. So talk to us about what drift means and how you ended up drifting into law school and evolving into your career that you have now. Well, drift is the decision we make by not deciding or by going along with the flow of what other people expect from us or what is the default option. So you take a job because somebody offers you that job or you become a doctor because

both your parents are doctors and you're good at science. Are you getting married because all your friends are getting married or you just go along with the path of least resistance. And the thing about drift, you know, the word drift sounds easy. Like you're just like drifting down a lazy summer river, but actually drift is often incredibly difficult. It can be so demanding. And, you know, you mentioned that I drifted into law school and, you know, I was editor-in-chief of the law journal. I was clerking for Justice Sandra Day O'Connor. I mean, it was hard from taking the LSAT

to sitting for the New York State Bar Exam. It's a huge amount of work, but it was drifting because I went to law school, not because I thought I wanted to be a lawyer, but because I thought, well, it's a great education. I'm good at research and writing. I can always change my mind later. It's great preparation. These are the ideas of drift. And, you know, sometimes we hold back. We're not ready to make a decision.

Like, we're gathering information or we're sort of like thinking things through. And so we're mindfully delay making a decision. And sometimes that makes sense. But drift is when you just sort of like, Oh, I don't want to fight with everybody about it, so I'll just do what they want. Or I don't know what else to do with myself, so I'll just do what other people think sounds like a good idea. And sometimes it can work out really, really well. Some people drift into something and are very happy with it, but often they are not. And so I think it's very good to ask ourselves if we might be drifting. So how did you realize that you were drifting and then decide to pivot into the career

that you have today? You know, several things happen all the same time. So one thing that happened to me was, so here I was, I was clerk on the Supreme Court, I'm surrounded with people who are just brilliant lawyers and they all loved law. And they wanted to talk about it all the time. They wanted to talk about it a lunchtime.

They wanted to talk about it at parties on the weekend. And like they've remembered these details from, you know, I would read a case and I'm like, I remember the facts that I remember how it was decided. I was just kind of the key thing. And I realized they just brought an enthusiasm to law that I didn't, like I wanted to do an excellent job for Justice O'Connor.

And I did everything within my power to do an excellent job, but I didn't wanna do one minute more. So I think, and now I love to talk shop with what I do now. My favorite thing to do is to talk shop. And so that sort of was showing me, like I don't have the same spirit of enthusiasm for what I'm doing as the people around me.

So that was a clue. And another clue was a friend of mine was in education graduate school. And she had what I thought were like these really boring, looking textbooks lying around. And I said very dismissively, like, is this what you have to read for your program? And she said, oh, but that's what I read on my own anyway.

And I thought, wow, I want to be doing for work, what I would be doing for fun. And then at that time, I had, like, I was hit by a lighting bowl. I was out for a walk on Capitol Hill. And I asked myself sort of a rhetorical question, you know how you do that. And I said, what am I interested in that everybody

in the world is interested in? And I thought, well, power, money, fame, sex. I was like, power, money, fame, sex. And I just started researching and researching, which is something that happens to me all the time, ever since I was like eight years old. So that was not unusual. But this just kept going and going and going. And finally, I thought to myself, well, I'm doing the kind of research and note-taking that a person would do if they were going to write a book. And then I thought, well, maybe I could write that book. That is what I'm doing in my free time. I'm doing all this. Maybe, and so I went out and got a book called How to Write and Sell Your Nonfiction Book Proposal.

And I just followed the directions. Oh my gosh. Isn't it so nice when you find what you love and you can turn it into a career? I feel like not a day goes by that I do not think about that. It's amazing. I feel the same way. I mean, I turn podcasting into a career and build a marketing agency and a podcast network out of everything that into your point. I love talking about podcasting.

You can't make me shut up about it. No, I think a really good test is do you like to talk shop? And you know, sometimes people act like, oh, it's not good. Like people talking shop, it's like they have no interests or they're like so narrow. And I'm like, no, we love, we're talking shop because we love it. Mm-hmm. Yeah, totally. So speaking of drift, a lot of people are realizing they're drifting in COVID because

they're working from home. They've got all this free time. They don't have a commute. There's no more hustle and bustle like there used to be. And a lot of people are waking up and realizing, I don't really want to do what I'm doing right now for the rest of my life. And because it was so much hustle and bustle before,

they never really quite realized they were drifting. So talk to us about that. No, I think you're exactly right. And one of the reasons that people drift is like they just, exactly as you see, you just like get caught up in the moment and you don't have time for reflection. And this is why I think you mentioned New Year's before. I think that's one of the reasons why the New Year,

it's really good to have a prompt to stop and reflect because often in just sort of like the tumult of everyday life, we don't have these opportunities to step back and ask ourselves these big questions. Like, am I happy? Could I be happier? Is my life heading in the right direction? Is there something that I'm not doing

that's really important to me? Am I living up to my values? These are big questions, and they can be scary questions, right? Like sometimes you don't wanna think about it. You don't wanna face that are deal with it because it might have consequences. And so, and I think for a lot of people, this forced halt, this disruption

where like so many things were kind of thrown into question, you know, even something like hybrid, even somebody who's really, really happy their job, like maybe they're thinking, well, maybe I could live in a completely different city. I never thought of that, but now my company is saying that I could. So now I have to re-evaluate my, I like, I never thought about it before, and I'm have to re-evaluate it.

Maybe I drifted into living in Chicago because I thought I had to live in Chicago. But now I, maybe I don't have to live in Chicago. So then where would I go? And like, the whole world is open to you. And that can feel a little overwhelming because it means re-evaluating our choices. But I think it's really good for us to do that, to make sure that we are mindfully choosing where we can. We can't always choose everything the way we want.

But often we don't make a good choice even with things we can't choose. So it's worth thinking about. Yeah. And I think one of the symptoms of drifting, so to say, as you say, is you're wishing for some catastrophic event to happen. Like you're wishing like, oh, I wish my office would burn down. So I'd never have to go to work.

Now you have this catastrophic event. You have COVID that happened. And so everybody's re-evaluating their values and what they want to do with their life. Yes, but you know what? I think in some ways people are discouraged because I think some people sort of said to themselves like, well, if I had all the time in the world, well, of course I would be doing tons of yoga, but with a schedule like mine, I can't. And now it's like, oh, now it's my reason for not doing all that yoga. You know, it's kind of thrown so many things into,

so many assumptions and so many habits into question. So let's talk about New Year's resolutions. I had Dan Pink on the show a while back and he talked about Oh, it's such a huge fan of Dan. He's so amazing, right? And he talked about temporal landmarks, which New Year's is one of them. And so is something like your birthday, even Mondays or a temporal landmarks, which new years is one of them. And so is something like your birthday, even Mondays,

or a temporal landmark. And apparently because these are really special days and they help us define a specific day to start something new, we can more likely stick to that goal. And we're more likely to be successful if we start something new or a new habit on one of those temporal landmarks. So what is your perspective about a new year's resolution?

Are you in line with them? Well, it's funny because I always think about them more. It's like being auspicious days, like something like New Year's Day is kind of to me. It feels like an auspicious day. It's a clean slate. Everybody has that feeling of starting over. But here's the thing.

People have in my observation, people have very mixed emotions about New Year's resolutions and very mixed attitudes. And I talk about this in my book, my book Better Than Before, which is all about how we can make our break our habits. But sort of in a nutshell, some people, they feel like January 1st is arbitrary.

They're like, if something's important to me, I'm gonna do it when the time feels right. I'm not gonna wait for January 1st, that's an arbitrary day. And some people. They're like, sometimes important to me, I'm going to do it when the time feels right. I'm not going to wait for January 1st. That's an arbitrary day. And some people are sort of like, I'm not some lemming. This is going to do something whenever he does it, new year, new year. That's nonsense.

Like, I'm going to do it when I feel the time is right. It's not that it's arbitrary. It's that no one tells me what to do. And then some people really are discouraged by New Year's resolutions because they've tried and failed. And so they have a really bad association with New Year's resolution. It makes them feel very demoralized. So if you're energized and excited by New Year's resolutions, I think it's great.

If you feel like for whatever reason, you don't like the idea of a New Year's resolution, many people share that view. And so on the happier with Gretchen Rubin podcast, my sister and I have talked about a lot of things people can do to kind of take advantage of the temporal landmark, as you say, the auspicious day, but not do a New Year's resolution because for some people those are complicated.

So like one thing you can do that we've done for a couple of years is like write a 22 for 22 list and last year it was 21 for 21. And you make a list of 22 things you want to get done. And some of these could be really fun things. They could be, they could be something that you could do in a half an hour and cross off your list but that you really want to get done.

Or it could be something as big as, you know, quit sugar. And again, it's a way of thinking, what do I want from my year, like what would make me happy or healthier, more productive, more creative. And yet for a lot of people, it's kind of free from that baggage, and maybe they can have fun with it and like embrace it in a way that wear New Year's resolutions

maybe just don't feel that appealing anymore. Yeah, totally. It's totally based on your personality type as you kind of alluded to. And we'll get deeper into that later. I definitely want you to kind of outline the four personality types and how they relate to resolutions and what we can do to be more successful depending on who we are. But before we get into that, you are like the happiness expert.

So what is the correlation between setting a new goal or trying something new with happiness? How does that make us more happy? Well, doing something new, trying new things tends to make people happier. Even things as simple as like going to a new restaurant or walking around a new neighborhood. So it's good for happiness to do something new. I mean, it's also really good for happiness

to follow through. Like we like to feel like we're in control and we like to feel like we're in control of ourselves. And so having that sense of efficacy, that sense of like I can follow through on my plans really does help people to become happier. And what the research shows is that people, and this is no surprise, is that people who kind of articulate what they want to change and make a plan for how they might bring that change into their life. Okay, spoiler alert, that people do

better. Like when you when you think about it and you try to set yourself up for success, you are more likely to succeed. And so it is very valuable to do this. But there's no, I don't think there's magic to doing it as a New Year's resolution. There's a lot of ways that you can go about that sort of mindfully setting your aims for yourself, depending on what appeals to you. That's so interesting. So speaking of what you're saying in terms of planning,

writing things down, breaking down into smaller chunks, I always do activities on the weekend on LinkedIn. I have a really big following on LinkedIn, where I basically have my audience kind of engage on something where I have them think about something specific. So one of the things that I did for the new year is I said, predict your 2022 in three words. You do something pretty similar where you ask your audience to define your next year in one word. So talk to us about that, some of the words that you've used in the past to describe your theme

for the year and what's a science behind why that works? Well, I think anytime we want to set an aim for ourselves, the more we can keep it in mind and the more engaged we are with it, the better we're going to do. And so picking a one word theme for the year, it sounds like for you, it's almost like predicting, it's almost like trying to anticipate what you're going to accomplish. This is more like the theme for like you're setting your intention. And what I have found what a lot of my audience have found is that setting these words really helps you to kind of think in a more transcendent way and in a more comprehensive way of what you want to achieve and then to think through all the ways that you might make that happen.

So for instance, I've had words like, my words have tended to be pretty boring, like infrastructure, delegate, bigger, whereas my sister, my co-host on half years, my sister, her words have been much more evocative and interesting like butterfly, number six, hot wheels, novel. So this year, my word, I decided I wanted to have a more concrete word

that had a lot more metaphorical levels to it. So I picked the word salt. Because salt is something that it's a universal flavor enhancer. It's the thing that you add to spice things up. It's a preservative, so it keeps things going and keeps things good longer. And so, by thinking about it, and then it's easy to put the word salt up on my corkboard over my shoulder. It has this giant word salt on it. That's easier than a two paragraph mission statement for myself. Salt captures it. And what we've seen is like people, they'll put it on it like a bracelet or they'll make it their screensaver or they're, you know, they're an image on their lock screen or something. And just by keeping it in their mind and keeping it very active, it helps to keep it in your mind. And people have all sorts of

interesting things like somebody just had it for, well, my sisters were to step. So she wants to step into the future. She wants to do 10,000 steps a day. She wants to fix her treadmill desk. She just got a new puppy. She wants to walk her dog five times a week. She wants to move ahead in a kind of a side hustle she's been thinking about doing.

So she's stepping forward in a lot of different ways. So with a one word theme, you can capture a lot of related ideas in one sort of powerful word. And it's fun and it's creative. You know, it's a little bit more fun than some other research. Yeah, I mean, it's less daunting, just to think of one word and have that kind of set your intention for all the, your priorities and everything that you choose to do. So my homework to everybody tuning in right now is to think of their theme for 2022,

their one word theme. And then let us know, write us a review on the podcast or DM me on LinkedIn and let us know what you picked for your work. So let's go back to your 22 items for 2022 in terms of your 22 goals. What's the most fun or unexpected goal that you have on your list?

Oh, I want to have another taste party. So I'm writing a book about the five senses. And so I went to Flavor University and they have all these tastes, like comparisons that you do or like you just sit and really taste something. And I had like some friends over and we did it. And it was so much fun. And I realized like you think of like, oh, we'll have people over for dinner or we'll all go out to a restaurant. And I just thought this was so much more fun. And I realized like you think of like, oh, we'll have people over for dinner or we'll all go out to a restaurant.

And I just thought this was so much more fun and it got us talking and laughing and really in a very different way. Like we were talking about odd things. Like what kind of candy we ate when we were little or, you know, everybody's musing about red ball. I mean, it was just it was just it was an odd interesting thing. And so I'm excited to Red Bull. I mean, it was just, it was just, it was an odd, interesting thing. And so I'm excited to do that again. I wanna like make a habit of that. What's it, I've never heard of a tasting party before. Like, what is that in Dale? So what I did was, like I got, say, three kinds,

I looked up like, what are the three most popular varieties of apples in the United States? And so I put slices unmarked and people like I bought these little cups and I had everybody say like well what do you think? And like everybody had to say like how they liked it and then compare it and try to identify it. I had like a piece of very inexpensive chocolate and a piece of very expensive chocolate. Like could we taste the difference? Yes, we could. We had the three kinds of tater chips,

like plain potato chips. Like, how do you compare and contrast these? Like, do we all agree at what was best? Or did we disagree? Or like, we, and as I said, we all tried Red Bull. We tasted five different kinds of Skittles. It was just really fun. That's so much fun.

Yeah, that's so much fun. And you know, one of the kind of magical food is ketchup. Ketchup hits all five of the taste, sweet sour salty, umami, and bitter. And so it's like, that's very unusual for something to do that, which is why probably ketchup is so enormously powerful. And we tasted it and people were like, this is amazing. Like no one had noticed. Oh my gosh, ketchup is so, so good. A friend of mine was like, if you didn't tell us,

this was ketchup, I bet everybody would have thought. It was like some rare, super expensive thing because it is so complex and it's so delicious. So next time we do it, I'm gonna turn the lights out so nobody, so people can't see what it is. And ask them, what is it? Because it's like, you take it for granted, you don't realize ketchup is good.

It's really good. I would have never thought of that. That's so funny. And I can't wait for a new book, $5. That sounds super interesting. We have to have you back on. So this 22 for 22 lists in terms of the goals that you pick, is there any boundaries, like should they be smaller,

should they just be more fun? Do you have any boundaries for this? Well, what's so interesting is that people take it in a lot of different ways. So some people will pick things where they'll like say for 22, they might have 11 stretch things and 11 easy things, right? So there's a balance or sometimes people put them in categories like there might be a category of work and relationships and home and adventure. So there's some, so you sort of see, okay, I'm trying to like hit every important part of my life. Or sometimes people have fun with the year number. So it's like, I'm going to read 22 novels and

I'm going to go to, I'm going to walk for 22 minutes and I'm going to, you know, try 22 new recipes. I'm going to go on 22 hikes, kind of doing it that way. And then there's some people, they're like, what I need, people keep telling me I need to take more time for myself. I'm just gonna have 22 fun things and by putting them on the list, I'm gonna make sure that I do make time for fun

and I do make time for the things that I would really enjoy because if I don't put them on a list, like going to the dentist, they'll never get done. So I'm going to put on things like get a massage and take a tennis lesson and go on a trip to see, even you know, my friends new baby or whatever it is. So every single thing on their list is fun. So people really, part of what I like about it is that it's very, very flexible.

Another thing we do on the happier podcast is we'll do a challenge based on the number of minutes, so it's 22. So we did walk 20 and 20. We did read 21 and 21. And then this year, because people are exhausted, it's rest 22 and 22. And again, it's super flexible because some people are resting by napping.

That's what I'm doing. Some people are resting by committing to going to sleep 22 minutes earlier. Somebody was saying, oh, I'm gonna go to bed at 2,200 hours. Like, use the 24 hour clock, I didn't think of that. Some people are having 22 minutes in the morning, like, instead of hitting this news alarm, I'm gonna get up and like, have a cup of coffee

and like spend time in my backyard in nature. So people are really thinking through what is rest Instead of hitting this news alarm, I'm going to get up and have a cup of coffee and spend time in my backyard in nature. People are really thinking through what is rest and how to use the 22. So you can have a 22 for 22 list or you could also do something for 22 minutes every day in 2022. It's another way to play with an arbitrary date, but it's a fun day. Let's hold that thought and take a quick break with our sponsors. Young and profitors, do you have a brilliant business idea,

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Go right now for 50% off your no risk two week trial at trinom.com.shap. That's trinom.nom.com.shap for 50% off. trinom.com slash.yap. I love that. And I think anybody who's listening to Young and Profiting, I know that we're all super high achievers, we're all really hardworking. I bet we all need to just keep our list to a fun list because I think

we all have our strategy and goals for our business and everything like that. But we often forget about like you said, going to the doctor or taking a tennis lesson or learning how to play an instrument. That's what I'm going to do for my list is just keep it fun, especially after the couple years that we've had. I feel like it's more important than ever. So, let's talk about sticking to our goals because you alluded to this before. You didn't go into detail, so I'd love for you to go into detail now. Everybody has a different personality and you actually break the world down into four distinct personality types called your four tendencies.

You're very famous for this model and framework. So, first, let's break those four personality types down. And then let's talk about how each one can approach their goals. Right. This is the four tendencies. And it's a framework that divides people into four categories, a pollers, questioners, obligers, and rebels.

And so what this is looking at is a very narrow aspect of your nature, but a very significant, like something that really has a lot of consequences. And what it's looking at is how you respond to expectations. And we all face two kinds of expectations, outer expectations, like a work deadline, and inner expectations, like my own desire to get back into practicing guitar.

So depending on whether you meet or resist outer or inner expectations, that's what makes you in a pull-der questioner or bliter or rebel. So a pull-der is readily meet outer and inner expectations. They meet the work deadline, they keep the New Year's resolution without much fuss. They want to know what other people expect from them, but their expectations for themselves are just as important, maybe more important. So their motto is discipline is my freedom. Then there are questioners, questioners question all expectations. They'll do something if they think it makes sense.

They need justifications, reasons. They want everything to be efficient. They like things to be customized. These are the people that don't like the arbitrariness of January 1st. They tend to really not like anything arbitrar or unjustified. So they make everything an interact expectation. If it meets their inner standard, they will do it. No problem. If it fails, they're inner standard, they will push back. So their motto is, all comply if you convince me why. Then there are obligers. A bliger's, and this is the biggest group

for both men and women is a bliger. A bliger's readily meet out of expectations, but they struggle to meet in her expectations. So I got my insight into this when a friend told me, you know, when I was in high school, I was on the track team, and I never missed track practice. So why can't I go running now? Well, when she had a team and a coach expecting her,

she had no trouble, but when she's trying to go on her own, it's a struggle. And so for people who are blighters to meet and inter-expectation, they must have a form about her accountability. So you wanna read a book, join a book club. You wanna work out, work out with a trainer, take a class where they take attendance,

work out with a friend who's gonna be annoyed if you don't show up, raise money for a trainer, take a class, where they take attendance, workout with a friend who's gonna be annoyed if you don't show up, you don't raise money for a charity, you need that outer accountability. And so the motto of the obliger is, you can count on me and I'm counting on you to count on me. And then finally, Rebel, and this is the smallest group,

Rebels resist all expectations, outer and inner alike. They wanna do what they wanna do in their own way, in their own time. They can do anything they want to do. But if you ask or tell them to do something, they're very likely to resist. And typically they don't tell themselves what to do,

like they don't say, I'm gonna go to a woodworking class every Saturday morning at 10 a.m. because they think, well, I don't know what I'm gonna want to do on Saturday morning. And just so you know that somebody is expecting me to show up is going to annoy me. So their motto is, you can't make me any other kind of, so people, if you would like to take a, like, take a quiz, they can go to GretchenRubin.com slash

four tendencies, FOUR, four tendencies. And it'll, it's a very short, like three and a half million people have taken this. It's free, it's quick, and it will tell you what you are and give you a little report. But often people just from this brief description, they know exactly who they are. I mean, we can talk about the Game of Thrones characters, we can talk about parks and recreation, we can talk about the, you know, these are not, these are not subtle. Once you know what to look for, you see them all around you. Oh my gosh. As soon as I refreshed my learning of this, like I interviewed you a while ago, so I learned this before.

I was like, I think I'm an upholder, but let me double check. I went and took the quiz up holder. And I think you're an upholder as well. Yes, and it's great to talk to a fellow upholder, but you know, we're the second smallest group. Rebel is the smallest and a poll, there's only slightly larger. So we're kind of a small group. I know. So it's like, we almost have to walk around the world realizing that most people are obligers

and questioners and kind of being their perspective. Because a lot of the times, I don't relate to that at all. You know, and it's really hard to kind of, when you have such a unique, I guess, personality type. And like, for example, I never look really hard to kind of, when you have such a unique, I guess, personality type. And like, for example, I never look up ways to stick to goals because I never have a problem with sticking to goals. So I don't even relate to that, you know? You're exactly right. And so when I wrote my book, The Happiness Project, like after it came out, all these people were saying to me, but how did you get yourself to do all those things? And I said, oh, well, you know, I thought

about the things that I thought would make me happier. And then I tried them. And if they made me happier, I just kept doing them. And they'd say to me, looking really puzzled, like, but how did you get yourself to do them? And I was like, what are you talking about? Like, I really didn't understand.

And that's, I think, what I first started to understand the four tendencies because I began to think other people are facing different challenges from me. Like we're not all dealing with the same thing. Or like I was right when I was writing my book better than before, which is about habits. Like, and maybe you're probably the same way since you're an a folder. I love the idea of habits.

I find it energizing just fascinating. I love habits. I add more all the time. But I was at a cocktail party and somebody was asking me what I did. She literally stepped back for me when I said I was writing about habits. It was so low that she couldn't help. She was so repelled. I was like, that's funny because and she's like, why would you want her to look about a subject like that? I thought, well, that were really different. That was one of my my, like looking back on that conversation, I was just asking all these different things

to try to understand her mind work. And that's when I began to realize, people are really fundamentally different. Like we just are in a completely different universe. Yeah, so my boyfriend is definitely a rebel. I can't, if I say something to him, like I suggested you do this, he will literally like, can't do, if I say something to him, like I suggested you this, he will literally like,

can't do it because I told him to do it. And like you said, he can't even do like what he wants to do because he, if he tells himself to do something you won't want to do it. So how do these different personality types better stick to their goals? What is your guidance for each one of them?

And maybe let's start off with rebel, but then we can go into the abliger since most people really fall into that category. better stick to their goals. What is your guidance for each one of them? And maybe let's start off with Rebel, but then we can go into the obligatory since most people really fall into that category. Well, the thing about Rebel is, Rebels, I would say, that is the most different kind of tendency, and I think they are often given bad advice and told to do things that are not going to work for them.

So if you know that you're a Rebel, or you know you're dealing with a Rebel, you can really kind of tailor it to that tendency, which is going to make it a lot easier for them to stick. So one of the things that works really well for a rebel is to think about identity, which is like, I'm not doing this because you told me to or because somebody else told me I should or even because I said that I would, I'm doing it because this is a kind of person I am. So I'm exercising because you know what? I'm an athlete.

I respect my body. I love to be outside in nature and moving my body. And I love feeling light and free and strong. And I kind of got in a way from that. And they've been trying to keep me trapped behind this fluorescent light and behind these screens. But I'm not gonna be, I'm free. I'm gonna choose, I'm gonna be outside.

I'm gonna be strong. Cause that's what I want, that's what I choose. I'm doing, I'm gonna choose, I'm gonna be outside, I'm gonna be strong, because that's what I want, that's what I choose. I'm doing this regular work because I want people to see how creative I am, how productive I am, I wanna be paid for my work, this is who I am, this is what I choose. And so, you don't wanna get in the way of that

by like telling them to do things, because then you can ignite the spirit of resistance, but you want to like allow them them to step into their identities. I'm a considerate parent. I'm a responsible partner. I'm the kind of person people can count on. I live up to the highest values. So sometimes troubles are incredibly high values.

And so they're asking themselves to do all kinds of things. It's not like, sometimes people think that they're sort of like these irresponsible image. Sure, No, it just depends on their values because they're choosing. The other thing that can work, and maybe this works if it's like with a partner, is information and consequences choice. You give them the information you need, you tell them the consequences of their action or inaction, and then you let them choose. So you can be like, oh yeah, when we were talking about going on that vacation and like we're gonna need to commit to a hotel. So if we pick by Friday night,

probably we'll get what the one that we want. If we don't get it done until like next week, it looks like they're going pretty fast. So we might get some like lousy hotel or we're gonna end up having to stay pretty far away from where we wanna be. Information consequences. I love that.

But then you don't keep going. You don't say, so you have to do it. Or you said you would. Or I'm gonna check up on you. It's just like, and you have to be willing to allow things not to be done. Because, rebels after rebels said to me, like you have to let negative consequences fall.

Or, if you rush in and rescue or fix fix at the last minute then it's like okay well that was fine. I don't need to worry about this because somebody it has to be it has to be something and you can say well if it's but that's my vacation too it's like okay well you've got to convince the rebel they want to do it for their own reasons or do it yourself or allow them not to do it because that's just you can't tell them what to do. So it just doesn't work. Yeah, this is like really speaking to me like she's seeing the truth right now because I know how to win arguments and things with my boyfriend and that's exactly how I get it done. So that makes sense. How about a blasers? How should they

go about sticking to their goals? They need outer accountability. This is so key because people will tell obligers things like, you need to learn to put yourself first or you need to keep your promises yourself or you need to get clear in your priorities. This doesn't work. I'm not saying it's not a good idea. I'm just saying it doesn't work. What works is outer accountability. You have to create a structure of outer accountability to meet an interact expectation. And I love hearing what obligers do

because they have so much ingenuity in thinking about how to create out-of-cantability. Well, that'd be tricky to create out-of-cantability, but like somebody, I knew two obligers who, for some reason, had the same kind of funny aim, but they both lived by themselves. They were both addicted to this news alarm, and they wanted to get up sort of on time. So how do you do that?

How do you create outer accountability for getting up at a certain time? And so one of them put a very embarrassing Facebook post to automatically post unless you got to disable it. So that got her out of bed. And the guy had a golden retriever named Ginger who slept in his room. And so he changed his alarm to be his voice saying, Ginger, do you want to go for a walk? Ginger, do you want to go for a walk?

And so Ginger would like jump on his chest and like wag her tail and lick his face and be like, yes, let's go for a walk. So they didn't even sleep because he's got this golden retriever bouncing around. And I thought these were great, right? Because it is out of accountability, but you kind of don't even need to rely on another person to do it.

A lot of times people do rely on people to do it. Like if you want to go for a walk, you like go with your neighbor and your neighbor's going to be annoyed if you don't show up. I've heard of two guys, the way they did it, they did it in a gym. So it's like they go to the gym and like, if I, at the end, we swap a shoe. So I have to go tomorrow because if I don't go, you don't show up and you'll only have one shoe.

Oh my God, that's so brilliant. So I have to go because otherwise, like you're gonna be so annoyed. Do you feel like there's, so I'm sure the obligers out there, they probably wish that they had a little bit more discipline self-discipline and control. Is there a way to kind of mature into becoming an appolder or are you just kind

of stepping in a blizzard? Spoken like a true appolder. I'm a big believer in the genetic roots of personality and I think that these are pretty much hardwired. But I really don't think that anybody needs to evolve. I think they each have tremendous strengths and weaknesses. We can talk about the weaknesses of the upholder tendency and how that comes into play. New Year's resolutions is something that is definitely part of our strengths as a pullters.

And so, each have strengths and weaknesses. They each include people who are wildly successful and also people who struggle. And what you see is that the people who do the best are not the ones that try to move from one tendency to the other because I think that's very difficult if even possible. But it's the people who work with their tendency. They harness the strengths and they offset the weaknesses. And so sometimes people will say to me like, oh, I used to be in a bl, but now I'm an appholder. And I'm like, well, let's look at that. And what I see is that they've just unconsciously figured out that for anything that's important to them, they need to have a structure of outer accountability. They've just built it in.

So now they feel like they're effortlessly meeting their inner expectations. Whereas to me, I'm like, really, you've just built in tons of outer accountability, which is exactly what you need, and that's fine. So I think instead of trying to work on ourselves, we should work on our circumstances and our surroundings and our situation, and just get ourselves whatever we need to succeed, rather than trying to change our nature.

Because a lot of people, questioners and upholders and sort of rebels too, kind of state of obligers, well, you shouldn't have to need other people to do what you want. It's like, you know what? There's more obligers than there are of any of us. Like who are we to say? If they need out-of-economy, that's fine, who cares?

Because I do feel like that. I feel like it's like a weakness that you need out-of-econom accountability. That's a holder, right? And I'm 100% with you. I used to march around and say things to people like, I don't want to be your babysitter. Do your work in your own time. Like if it's important to you, do it. If it's not important to you, don't do it. I don't want to keep hearing how you're frustrated because like just make up your mind. And it's like, you know, what? People don't work like that. That's just not helpful because you get a bunch of a holders together.

And we're always like, everybody starts saying, like, what another people just do it, like just get it together and do it. And I'm like, yeah, because we're a holders. Like, and what do they complain about us? Are we're rigid. Yeah, probably. Right.

They're a little bit arrogance, maybe you're... We're rigid. We're often cold because it's like, oh, you want me to do this one? I'm sorry, because I got my own thing going. Like, I don't have time for your thing, because I get to do my thing. This is why people love obligers, because obligers are the people who go the extra mile.

I've had people tell me they only want to hire a blighters. They want to screen on hiring. Wow. Because they want an obliger. Wow, I would think that they want a polders. Mmm, the polders are like, Hey, I'm sorry, I have to leave every night at six because I have to go to my yoga class. You know, you're you're lack of planning is not my emergency. Yeah, blighters are more people pleasers in that way. Well, it's not even people, please. I think the people, please, are something that people apply later to try to understand why they've acted the way they've acted. And I think it's just better not even to think about that.

It's more about accountability because there are blighters who have, that are not people, pleasers at all. They just, they only do something if they have to. And so they really, but they will do it, but they just have to have consequences, like very obvious consequences. So it doesn't necessarily go with people pleasing. And you could have a rebel who's very interested in people pleasing because they have very high value of serving other people's needs.

And so you could say, well, that's people pleasing, but it's definitely coming from a different place with a rubble. Okay, so let's get into questionnaires. How do they deal with goals? So questionnaires, for them, it's all about clarity. It's always about understanding, like, I'm asking myself, this is what I'm asking myself to do, and this is why, and this is why it's the most efficient,

most justified choice for me. So if I want to exercise, I want to understand like why I'm exercising, how I'm exercising, I really want to have clarity. So the strategy of clarity is so important for questioners, because once they've made up their mind, then action follows. But here's the thing, questioners can send nice ball

into analysis paralysis. This is when the desire for perfect information makes it hard for them to move forward. And so setting like exercise, like there's so much information. Should I be doing cardio? Should I be doing high intensity weight training? Should I be doing interval training? Should I be walking slow and that'll boost my creativity?

Like, who should I listen to? So sometimes they can fall in, they can get sort of stuck in that information spiral. So what they need to do is think, well, I'm gonna experiment, right? I'm gonna take my best guess and I'm gonna try something out and if it doesn't work, I'm gonna succeed by failing. If it doesn't work, then I've learned something about myself and then I'll try something new. They can use deadlines, they can use limits,

they can use trusted authorities. So it's like, well, if it's good enough, this person, this person I know is an amazing shape. If it's good enough for him, it's good enough for me. I'll try, you know, I'll try that regimen. So for questioners, it's all about that clarity, but the aim for clarity, I was just, somebody just emailed me saying, I keep reading and reading and reading, thinking that I will finally be so convinced about the, what the healthy way to eat is that I will just naturally do that.

But I'm sort of pretending like reading about healthy eating is the same as healthy eating, which it is not. And I was like, yeah, as a questioner, you have to be like, I need to start by acting. And if I change my mind, I can always change what I'm doing. But I have to get that clarity and then I have to follow it up with experimentation. And I'm guessing the upholders don't really get much advice on this topic. They don't mean you know what they love to get that clarity and then I have to follow it up with experimentation. And I'm guessing the upholders don't really get much advice on this topic.

They don't mean you know what they love to give advice. If I look around to all my towels in the world of habit formation, the upholders are definitely over indexed. And I think it's because we love it and we're good at it. And we think we've figured it out. It's like, oh, if you do what I do, it'll work for you because you know what? Just about anything, we're extra holders. We're really getting a lot of different kinds of tools

and a lot of different kinds of approaches and strategies because we like that and we're good at that. So something that my team brought up to me that I thought was really interesting was a term you call the arrival fallacy. What is the arrival fallacy and how does that relate to helping a stick to our New Year's resolutions? Well, the arrival fallacies when we think like,

I'll be happy when. So I'll be happy when I get the promotion. I'll be happy when I've done with grad school. I'll be happy when I get married. I'll be happy when I buy my first house. I'll be happy when I lose 20 pounds. I'll be happy when I break up with my boyfriend. But what research shows is that we don't have this ecstatic moment the way we think that

we're going to, partly because as we begin to make change, usually things don't happen overnight. It's not like somebody calls you and you win the Nobel Prize. There's a before and after. It's like you're edging up to things. And so by the time you get that promotion, it's not the big change that you anticipated. And also a lot of times, even very happy changes,

bring with them things that we have to fuss with. Like, okay, you've got a promotion, but now you've got a whole bunch of new responsibilities, and you go from being feeling like you're the master of everything to be like being a beginner again and that's unnerving. And so it's like, yeah, you're so heavy, you got the promotion, but oh, wow, you know, it's hard. And so the arrival fallacy from far away, it looks like it's going to be such a happy time that when it actually happens often, it's not. So I think what's really helpful is to think about one of the things my father always said to me

was to enjoy the process. Because if you really are careful to do things where you can enjoy the process, then the outcome doesn't matter as much. It's like you would still be disappointed or you would still be happy if you had the outcome that you had or you'd be unhappy if you didn't get it. But if you had the outcome that you had or you'd be unhappy if you didn't get it. But if you enjoy the process, then you're not hanging everything on that moment or that specific

because a lot of times things don't go the way we want. And we don't arrive where we want to arrive. But if you enjoy the process, then that's less upsetting. We'll be right back after a quick break from our sponsors. You hear that sound, young and profitors? You should know that sound by now, but in case you don't, that's the sound of another sale on Shopify. Shopify is the commerce platform that's revolutionizing millions of businesses worldwide. Whether you sell edgy t-shirts or offer an educational course like me, Shopify simplifies selling

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Sush Profiting. Again, go to Shopify.com Sush Profiting all lower case to take your business to the next level today. Again, that Shopify.com Sush Profiting Shopify.com Sush Profiting all lower case. This is possibility powered by Shopify. Yeah, bam. If lower case. This is Possibility powered by Shopify. Yeah, bam, if you're ready to take your business to new heights, break through to the six or seven figure mark or learn from the world's most successful people, look no further because the Kelly Roach Show has got you covered. Kelly Roach is a best-selling author,

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while I learn. Get unlimited access to every class and right now as the app listener, you can get 15% off when you go to masterclass.com slash profiting. That's masterclass.com slash profiting for 15% off an annual membership. Masterclass.com slash profiting. It's so interesting that you bring this up. I actually did a recap episode for 2021. And the last question I ask all my guests on my show is, what is your secret to profiting in life?

And one of the most popular things that people said is to enjoy the process and to enjoy the journey and to not get too stuck in the highs and the lows. And so many successful people that I've interviewed said that, or to have perspective and to realize that, like even though something's really bad, like you's always, you can always look at it from a different angle. So I love that you mentioned that, and that we were able to kind of tie that in.

So I want to talk about habits because you are also an expert with habits. And when it comes to a new year, everybody's always saying like, new year, new me, but really we're all the same, same old person. And a lot of us need to break some bad habits. I've talked to so many great experts on this topic from Charles DuHig to BJ Fog, to Nirae Al. And we love talking about habits on this podcast. So I would love to hear from you.

What is your approach to breaking a bad habit? Well, one thing is usually a habit can be conceived of as like making it or breaking it. And some people are very sensitive to the difference. So you kind of want to think about how you want to frame it. So are you going to quit sugar or are you going to eat more healthfully? But I think there are 21 strategies that we can use to make our break or have it. And sometimes people are like, well, 21 is too many. It'll just give me one or give me three.

But actually, it's really good that there's so many because some of them work really well for some people, but they don't work at all for other people. And some of them are available to us that sometimes in our lives, but not in other times in our lives. And so you wanna have a big menu so that you can pick and choose the ones that are right for you.

So for instance, we were just talking about the portennasies. Well, one of the 21 strategies that I write about and better than before is the strategy of accountability. And that's an incredibly powerful strategy. It's an essential strategy for obligers. It's sometimes useful for a holder. We don't really need it that much. Sometimes we like to have it.

It's not so essential. For a rebel sentence, it's counterproductive. They don't want somebody looking over their shoulder. They don't want somebody micromanaging or checking up on them. So if you try to hold them accountable, you might actually ignite their spirit of resistance. It might be counterproductive. So it's still very important, one of the 21 strategies, but it's not a universal strategy, and that's true for almost all the strategies.

So we really have to start with self-knowledge in knowing ourselves because who we are and the way that we go about things might mean that certain of the 21 would be really powerful for us, whereas a different person would have a completely different set of the ones that are like, there go two strategies. So as you were talking, like all that I kept thinking in my mind for some reason was, a blasgers would make bad entrepreneurs. Is this correct or incorrect? Well, it's incorrect because what a blasers do

when they want to be entrepreneurs is what they usually do is that they go ahead and create out of accountability. So let's say I want to be a wedding photographer. So I'd book a wedding. You know, I like tell my friend, hey, I'll take pictures for your wedding. Now somebody is counting on me. I know somebody who wanted to write an e-book,

so she called all her friends and interviewed them for this book, and then it's like, oh, well, they're all waiting for the e-book. So she's got to write it because all her friends are like, wait, you interviewed me. I want to see what I look like in print, or somebody I know who wanted to create a series of webinars.

So on social media, they were like the first 30 people who contact me will get a free webinar. So then he's got a list of 30 people who are like, okay, man, when's the webinar? So now I got to create it. Or you can think of your duty, be a role model for someone else. I'm going to show my family what it looks like to follow through on their promises to themselves. Or I'm going to think about all the people that I'm going to benefit. Oh my gosh, with the kind of executive coaching that I can do, I can read to whole population of people who no one else is talking to. I can just unleash all this potential in the world, but if I don't do it,

maybe nobody will, and all these people are going to go un-served. But again, it's like you got to get into your tendency, you got to tap into that power. Whereas to a questioner, it might be more like, they wouldn't think about it that way, They would think about it in a different way. So from the outside, they could all achieve it, but the kind of the mental process would be different. So to your point, it's like everybody can be successful, no matter what personality type you are, you just need to kind of structure your environment

the way that you thrive. So that totally makes sense. Okay, so speaking of habits, you have this 22 minutes of rest, habit challenge that you guys have embarked on would inspire this challenge. Well, as I said, we like to do this every year because it's like, it just feels manageable. And what's funny to me, and maybe this is funny to you as an upholder too, is I'm like, people are like, walk 20 minutes in 2020, change my life, or like, oh, we 21 and 21. I've been wanting to read more forever and I've read like a thousand books this year.

It's so amazing. And I'm like, you could have done this at any time. I don't know what the magic is, but there is kind of a magic. It's like somebody putting it in your head, somebody making it feel manageable, feeling like, oh, we're all doing this. And there's kind of an accountability of like,

are you part of this? And just this, like this checking in that we do periodically on the podcast is enough. And so that is really exciting to think that you can lob something like this and it just catches people's imagination and actually changes their action and their actions in a way that really makes them happier and healthier. So we're just 22 and 22. We thought about it's a couple different ideas for 22.

And then, you know, we were just like, you know, people are tired. They're just tired. And that's what you kept hearing from people is they're just like, just tired. And the thing is, if you do not have energy, everything feels hard. Like, even the things you know would be fun. Don't like, oh, I should make a physical photo albums of all, like all those pictures that I took over the years. And I know it'd be so fun for me to like look back on it, but I'm just too tired to even

scroll through my feet. I've got to just like watch reruns of the office, which is what I was doing when I'm overwhelmed. But if you have more energy, then you're more able to do all the things that would make you happier. And so it's really important that people think about rest. And so we just thought, you know, it just seemed like the right thing for the moment. And people seem really, really excited about being guided

to think about what is rest, because unlike we, well, even with like read 21 and 21, some people read non-fiction, some people read fiction, people had different ways that they, some people challenged themselves to listen to audiobooks and like get in the practice of audiobooks. So people really make these challenges their own, and with rest, people are really taking it in a lot of different directions, but it does seem like something that people are

really embracing as something that they think is going to make the year better for them. And so speaking of rest, I know you're a strong advocate for getting enough sleep because getting more sleep will actually make you happier. Why is that? Well, research shows that most adults need at least seven hours of sleep a night. And what's funny is that a lot of people will say, like, well, I've trained myself to get by with like five or six hours. But when scientists study these people, they're actually quite impaired. So we adjust to feeling kind

of under slept and we don't realize like really how far off of our best we feel. And it goes to mood, it goes to immunity, which I already focused on right now, it goes to like memory and focus in creativity. It makes people more patient. It gives us a better sense of perspective, a better sense of humor. So this is really something. It's really like the 21 strategies of habit change. One of the strategies is the strategy of foundation.

And the strategy foundation is to sleep more, get some exercise, eat and drink, right, and clear clutter if you care about clutter, which most people do, but not everybody does, because these four areas tend to kind of lay the foundation for other habits that kind of more advanced habits that we want to form and sleeping more is just crucial for that. It's just an imaginable elixir of life.

But I should say, because people are very, don't understand this, is like there truly is a difference between morning people and night people. About 30% of the world is night people, and night people are at their most energetic and productive and creative later in the day. And so if somebody is saying to you, if you wanna run, you should get up and do it first thing in the morning.

Or like, oh, you shouldn't be exercising after five. It'll make it hard for you to go to sleep. It's like, if you're a night person, you gotta go with your own internal cycle of energy. That's a real thing. It's largely genetic and a function of age. Yeah, and we talk about sleep a lot on the podcast. So hopefully my listeners know all about that.

I'm actually a night owl for sure. Oh, you are. Yeah, and I'll be working out 10 p.m. you'll catch me on the trampling, like doing bounce workouts at 10 p.m. That's so interesting to me. Well, this embrace is something about the four tendencies, because a lot of times people assume that

there's all these associated qualities and the four tendencies is only how you respond to expectations. So like I think a lot of people would assume that a poll is what I'll be mourning people, but it has nothing to do with mourning. I'm a mourning person, your night person, it's not correlated.

I mean, maybe it is, I don't have the big data, maybe in some way it's correlated, but it's not necessarily correlated. So, what are some other ways that we can be happier in 2022 that are top of mind for you? Well, whenever you're thinking about happiness, the one thing to think of first is relationships. To, you know, ancient philosophers and contemporary scientists agree that to be happier, we need to have enduring intimate bonds, we need to feel like we belong, we need to be able to confide,

we need to be able to get support, and just as important for happiness, we need to be able to give support. And so, and of course, this period has tremendously disrupted people's relationships, and and and put all kinds of challenges in the way. So I think it's been going on a while, but like really keep it up. Like make plans as you can, think about connecting with people, trying to meet new people, trying to strengthen weak ties of people that you want to get closer to. And as the year continues, really making that a priority of maintaining relationships. I love that. I think that's so important to your point. I feel like our relationships have gotten so strained over the last few years.

It doesn't look like it's going to get much better this year, but hopefully things will resume back to normal soon. So I have a new ending question that you are the first, you are the first of many, first in this studio, first interview of the year, and I have a new question I'm gonna ask on my guest this year, and that is what is one actionable thing that my listeners can do today

to be more profiting tomorrow? Well, this isn't the most significant thing you could do, but it isn't thing that the most people tell me that they feel like has made them happier, healthier, more productive, which is to make your bed. So many people just say that like starting your day with like keeping that promise to yourself, like the room looks neater, especially now that we're all working at home.

So many more of us are working at home. It looks neater. You can find your keys better. You know, I wouldn't say it's the most significant thing, but it is something that many, many people say feeling like they're best but forward. Have you met Chase Hughes before? No. So, he's an ex FBI agent.

He's been on my podcast a few times. He talks about this and he literally says that he can talk to someone. He's a human behavior expert. He can tell if they've made their better not. Just by the way that they act, he says that people will make their bed are more confident. And if you leave your bed messy, that in the back of your head, you're just thinking, I'm a mess, I'm a mess, I'm a failure.

I don't think so. No, because I think some people are like, I'm the boss and me, and I don't, you know, and I do what I want, and I don't make my bed, or some people are like, it's not efficient to make my bed wide. I'm just going to make it. I have to say, I reject that because I really don't think that there I think for all these things, there is no magic. One size fits all solution. I think it's

easy to fall into the assumption that if something works really well for me, it'll work really well for other people. And I just think people are complicated. And it might be that many people benefit from making their bed. But I think there are complicated. And it might be that many people benefit from making their bed, but I think there are many, and your listeners should contact you, let weigh in on this. How do you feel about making your bed?

Is it like important to you? I mean, I make my bed in a hotel room on the morning, I check out, I have to make my bed. I just like it. I just, I don't like to be in a room where a bed is unmanned. And fortunately for me, my husband feels the same way. But do I feel like everybody has to make their bed? No. Yeah. No, I totally agree. Especially when you think about the personality types that you're talking about.

Some people just might not even care at all and might not impact them externally whatsoever, but then if you are that personality type, that will, then it might impact you. So that's a good point. There are people who are clutter blind where they literally, my sister is like this, she just doesn't see it. She just, she would never close a cabinet door ever if she lived by herself,

because she just doesn't even notice. So for her to go around and like do it, it just doesn't matter to her. So for her, it's not a good use of her time and energy. I mean, not that it takes much time and energy. Whereas for me, it's like all I do, I can't, I don't like to have a cabinet door open. Why would you have a cabinet door open? It just looks so much nicer with the shut. But those are just two preferences. There's nothing, there's nothing magic about closing your cabinet door.

Yeah. But nonetheless, make your bed is probably. Many, many, many people report that they do feel better. So it's more of a guideline than a rule. And what is your secret to profiting in life? Well, for me, it's discipline. We've been talking about it. As a poll, there's like, I really do. I feel energized by discipline and

I feel like that's what helps me do all the things that I want to do. So that's what it is for me. I love that. Well, Gretchen, what an amazing second interview. Thank you so much for coming back on Young & Profiting Podcast. We have to have you back on when you have your new book about senses. So let me know when that comes out. I'm really, I love this kind of stuff. So I can't wait to read that book and dig deep with you on it. So thank you so much for joining us today. Thank you. And congratulations on the new fabulous studio.

What an auspicious way to start the new year. What an amazing conversation with Gretchen. The timing of this interview couldn't have been better because the motivation to start something new or start a new life goal is always sky high around this time of year and who better than Gretchen to guide us in setting goals in a smarter way. We talked about how to relieve the pressure and stress around setting up resolutions and her advice is to keep it simple, keep it fun and make it memorable.

One of the tips she gave us was to choose a one-word theme for 2022. Choose one word or a short phrase to sum up what you want to focus on for the new year. It sets your intention. When we distill our aims into a single-word or phrase, it's easier to remember and then to take action. In the past, Gretchen used words like upgrade, bigger, lighten up, repurpose, and open. This year, her word is salt. It's okay to be quirky and to be creative. Just think of a word that really speaks to you the most, and then spend some time thinking

about all the ways you can put that theme to work in the new year. Gretchen is really well known for her book, The Four Tendencies, in which she breaks down the four personality types that every person in the world can fit into. By asking the one simple question, how do I respond to expectations, we gain exciting insight into ourselves. And when we know how other people respond to expectations, we'll better understand the people in our lives, too.

We all face two kinds of expectations, outer expectations like meeting work deadlines, and inner expectations like keeping a New Year's resolution or starting a new diet. Our response to expectations determines our tendency, that is whether we fit into the category of a folder, questioner, a blisier, or rebel. Knowing our tendency can help us better achieve our goals, we can make better decisions, meet deadlines, meet our own

promises to ourselves, and even engage more deeply with others. You can go to quiz.gretchenrubin.com if you want to learn which personality type you fit into. And before we go, I want to recap how you should go about your goal execution in 2020 depending on your personality type. Hopefully, this repetition really helps it stick with you throughout the new year. The first type is a poll. A poll. Respond well to outer and inner expectations. This means that a poll. are really great at making New Year's resolutions. In fact, I'm an upholder and I can easily make a habit

or a goal stick any time of the year. I don't need January 1st to kick it off for me. I'm a planner and I'm an executor and that's just a natural ability for upholders. The next category is obligers. Obligers meet outer expectations but they struggle to meet inner expectations that they impose on themselves.

This means that obligersasher's often willingly refused to make new resolutions because year after year, they fail to keep them. The solution is that a blasher's need outer pressure, whether that's asking a friend to tag along with you at the gym or signing up for a class to learn something new. Don't look at it as needing motivation,

but look at it as needing accountability. The third category is questioners. Questioners, well, question everything. They'll meet in expectation if they think it makes sense. Questioners are good at keeping resolutions no matter what time of the year it is. However, they do run into trouble when they convince themselves that this resolution isn't the best

or most efficient way for them to meet their goal. The only way to be fully prepared and to do well with your goal as a questioner is to make sure that you've weighed all the pros and cons to setting this new resolution. Gretchen cautions questioners to be aware of analysis paralysis. Don't spend too long in the research process. Once you've come to a decision, go for it. The last category is Rebels. Rebels resist all expectations, both outer and inner. While Rebels don't usually conform to things like New Year's resolutions, they can have the surprisingly competitive spirit that allows them to follow through with most impossible goals. To combat that natural urge to resist, Gretchen advises that rebels find a sense of identity in their goals.

Root yourself in your goal so it goes hand in hand with who you are and not what others want you to be. The last thing I want to leave you with is the arrival fallacy mindset. The arrival fallacy is a fallacy because arriving rarely makes you as happy as you expected to. Gretchen said that the arrival fallacy is founded on the I'll be happy when statement. I'll be happy when I get that job. I'll be happy when I have a partner. I'll be happy when I buy a new car. The thing is, is that the end goal is never certain and the target is ever changing. So please, while you're working on your goals in 2022, don't forget to enjoy the process.

If you guys enjoyed this episode, please drop us a five-star review on your favorite podcast platform. You can find me on social media. I'm on Instagram at Yap with Hala or LinkedIn, just search for my name. it's Hala Taha. Big thanks to the Yap team as always, this is Hala signing off. Are you looking for ways to be happier, healthier, more productive and more creative? I'm Gretchen Ruben, the number one best-selling author of the Happiness Project. And every week, we share ideas and practical solutions on the Happier with Gretchen Ruben podcast.

My co-host and Happiness Guinea Pig is my sister Elizabeth Kraft. That's me, Elizabeth Kraft, a TV writer and producer in Hollywood. Join us as we explore fresh insights from cutting-edge science, ancient wisdom, pop culture, and our own experiences about cultivating happiness and good habits. Every week we offer a try this at home tip you can use to boost your happiness without spending a lot of time, energy, or money, suggestions such as follow the one minute rule. Choose a one word theme for the year

or design your summer. We also feature segments like know yourself better where we discuss questions like, are you an over buyer or an under buyer? Morning person or night person, abundance lever or simplicity lever. And every episode includes a happiness hack, a quick, easy shortcut to more happiness. Listen and follow the podcast happier with Gretchen Rubin.

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