Young and Profiting with Hala Taha - Lousin Mehrabi: EQ Is The New IQ | E18

Episode Date: February 19, 2019

Ever noticed how the best students in school don’t always succeed later on in life? Let’s face it. IQ is important, but it doesn’t always guarantee success. The ability to understand and express emotions also plays a pivotal role in whether make it or break it. In fact, EQ has been cited as the most important factor when it comes to job performance, and a top quality that hiring managers look for. Tune into #18 to boost your EQ with Lousin Mehrabi, an executive life coach and Certified Professional Negotiator who helps C-Suite executives grow in the areas of complex negotiations, emotional intelligence & leadership. Want to connect with other YAP listeners? Join the YAP Society on Slack: bit.ly/yapsociety Follow YAP on IG: www.instagram.com/youngandprofiting Reach out to Hala directly at [e-mail] Follow Hala on Linkedin: www.linkedin.com/in/htaha/ Follow Hala on Instagram: www.instagram.com/yapwithhala Check out our website to meet the team, view show notes and transcripts: www.youngandprofiting.com Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

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I'm Halataha and today we're yapping with Luisen Mejrabi, a top executive life coach and former finance executive who is an expert in the areas of emotional intelligence and negotiation. Aside from coaching, she's passionate about caring for her young son, who is diagnosed with a fatal and incurable disease. Luis and openly shares her life lessons from this experience and inspires thousands through her touching and educational articles on LinkedIn. Hey, Lucy, and thanks for joining Young & Profiting Podcast. Thank for the invitation, I'm happy to be here.

We're so excited to have you on the show. So your current job is an executive life coach, and you get to change people's lives each and every day. And when you're not at work, you're inspiring people through your articles on LinkedIn and through your keynote speeches. For early in your career, I don't think anybody would have guessed that you would end up doing the type of work that you do now. So as an introduction to yourself to our listeners, can you walk us through the type of work you did in your early

career, what changed, and what you spend your time doing today? Sure. So I started my career in finance. I was working in trading rooms of some of the biggest investment banks in the world, without naming them. I worked in Europe, in the Netherlands, in France, and working for trading rooms and the stock exchange. Did that for 12 years? I was in charge of sales, relationship management, strategy, those kind of things. It was fun, at times.

It was stressful all the time. And I always knew that this wasn't my thing, but without knowing what was my thing. So I just went with the flow and got caught up in it when you have that such a young age, this beautiful job, this beautiful title, this beautiful salary. You kind of think you have to sit it out until you realize this is really not your thing and I thought, okay, I have to get out of there.

Wow. So can you give us some background about where it is that you work? So from my understanding, you lived in Paris and the Netherlands. Can you talk about that a little bit? Yeah. My first job in finance started in the Netherlands in 2001. So I was living in Rotterdam and working there for a bank. Later moved to Paris and I was working for an investment bank there and then I moved to another investment bank again in Paris. And after that I joined the Stock Exchange, the European Stock Exchange

and in all those jobs, I was always responsible for the Benelux market, so that's Belgium, Netherlands, and Luxembourg. So I traveled all around Europe to serve my clients. Very cool. And so, for my understanding, there was a point in time where you decided you were going to make a major career shift. And in other interviews and things, you said you were experiencing burnout. And so burnout is something that a lot of people face. It's sort of like a crisis career shift. And in other interviews and things, you said you were experiencing burnout. And so burnout is something that a lot of people faced. It's sort of like a crisis these days.

A gallup study from last year found that about two thirds of all full-time workers experience burnout on the job. And some causes include unfair treatment at work, unreasonable deadlines, unmanageable workload, lack of support from managers. And then adding to the stress is a new digital world where you have 24 access to work and your email is always turned on and you're always expected to respond even on off hours.

What did burnout feel like for you? Burnout, it was a pure physical burnout, meaning I was physically exhausted. I was longing just to sleep. I was working 60 hours a week, but I think the main cause was that I was out of alignment, that I was doing something that is just not my thing. Because now I also work 60, 70, sometimes 80 hours a week, and I don't feel burnout at all. Because now I'm aligned. So I think it was intrinsic. I was doing something that was simply not my thing. And that's for so many years. I think it was a gift that I got to burn out. It was life telling me, Luce, you're not supposed to do this. There are other things waiting for you. Wow. So it's sort of like you just decided to swim downstream instead of upstream. Exactly. I'm very good at that.

So can you tell us or give your advice on when you think our listeners can determine when the right time to quit something is and when they should start something new or follow their passion? Yeah, I think it's important to differentiate. So this is a very good question. It's important to be resilient and to go this voice and you hear it very well saying, this is not what you're supposed to do, this is not what I will make you happy, or you have loads of other ideas and ideas to create something, or you have this secret dream job that is something completely different. Those are all signs that maybe you're not where you're supposed to be in your life path. And mine was when I realized that when I looked up at my managers and the board and thinking, okay, if I continue, that's the job that I will have. And that didn't make me excited at all at the contrary.

So then I knew, why am I sitting it out? What am I doing here? If the next step is something that I'm not excited about, that's when I knew it was time to leave. That is such good advice. And you could do this in any aspect of your life, like whether you're on a board for an organization, like would you even care to be president, or if you're playing a sport, would you care to be on an official team or something like that? You could apply it in so many different ways in your life. I love that advice.

Yeah, absolutely. And you don't have to necessarily want to grow. I mean, some people don't have the ambition at all to grow and they're happy doing what they're doing. And that's fine. It's just for me, it was an indicator of, okay, this is what's waiting for me. And that doesn't excite me.

So let's not waste my time, energy, and life here. Yeah, definitely. So speaking of making positive changes, you wrote an article recently where you mentioned that you implemented 33 positive changes in your life over the past two years. And it's something you do through what you call monthly challenges. Can you share more about this, talk about maybe the rules of these challenges so that our listeners interested in breaking some of their bad habits can take heed. Yes, this is something really cool. I started it three years ago and I've shared it with friends

and family and clients and now we're over a hundred people doing this every month. Wow. So it's very simple. At the end of each month you decide what monthly challenge you're going to be doing the next month. So you choose something that you're going to do or not do on a daily basis. And the rules are that it has to have a positive impact on your life and you have to be doing it or not doing it on a daily basis. And the third rule is that you have to finish the month. So even if you skip one day or you just can't do one day, you still continue the month and you finish the month before moving on to something else.

So for example, when I started my first month was not to consume any artificial sugar, I still ate fruit, but I said, okay, for one month, no sugar. So I had to skip sugar for my tea, which was very difficult and anything. So no candy, no biscuits, nothing. And I started that first of February because that was like the shortest month. And I did it until the end of the month. And that was three years ago. And ever since I don't put any sugar in my tea anymore.

So that part stayed. And then the next month I did, I believe it was no gluten or something like that. And then another month I've done play that I wanted to play, at least 15 minutes a day, where I simply play, where I become a kid again, and I just play. And that was very interesting for me as a very serious person to add that to my life. And I've done loads of stuff that's really continued. When I thought, okay, this is one month, I did it. Then I continued.

So I've stopped smoking this way. I've stopped drinking alcohol this way. Yeah, it's amazing because the rationale behind it is, one month is long and short at the same time. So if you put your mind to it, you can't stick to it for one month, right? Like, nothing is so difficult that you can't do it for one month. And there's also kind of end to it. You know, okay, when the month is finished, I can do it again. But the idea is to say, okay, if you did it for one month and it has such a positive impact on

your life, then continue. So it's not that it ends, but you can choose or you make like a cheat day at the end of the month and then you continue again. It's very flexible the way people do it, but the idea is at the end of the month think about, okay, what am I going to do next? And it's very motivating, especially when you share it with friends and family and you know you're several doing this. As I said, we're over a hundred now. It's really cool to know that everybody's doing something that makes their life better. Yeah, that's really cool.

Maybe I'll ask my young and profitors if they want to do a challenge with me. We had a guest on recently, Steve O'Dell, he's the CEO of 10-0-T and he created this matcha product. And now, matcha is sort of the competition to coffee. It basically gives you all the energy benefits of coffee without the jitters, without the crash, and it can prevent cancer and improves your skin

and focus. It's really good for you and it's such a better alternative to coffee. So maybe we'll take that on as a challenge. Yeah, and when you do it as a group, it doesn't have to be the same. Everyone can choose whatever they want. And again, you choose something that you want to do or not do, as long as it's on a daily basis. So you can't say, for example, I'm going to do yoga once a week.

That doesn't work. You have to do your yoga every day. That's't work. You have to do yoga every day. That's the thing. It's really 30 days, non-stop, and you do or not do something that you choose that will make your life better. And then, of course, you can share it or not share it, whatever you want, but you have to stick it out and the month without changing. Very cool.

So after your burnout, you left the finance industry, you became what you are now, an executive life coach. And one of the things you train on most is emotional intelligence, which is the ability to identify and manage one's own emotions, as well as the emotions of others. So emotional intelligence is often referred as emotional quotient or EQ. And it's a quality that I believe is more important than ever. And in fact, the world economic forum rated EQ as one of the top 10 skills workers would need most by 2020.

And in a recent career builder survey, it was found that 59% of employers would not hire someone who has a high IQ, but a low EQ. What do you think about this? Why do you think companies place such a high value on EQ and what are some habits or traits of somebody who has a high emotional intelligence? Well, we're becoming more and more aware that success is not directly linked to IQ. And that's exactly why the emotional intelligence models were built.

When people started asking questions like, how can it be that when we look at universities or college and everything is focused on IQ and having good grades etc. and then you see those people leave schools the ones who were the most successful in school don't necessarily become the most successful outside of school and you even have dropouts that have great success. So how can that be? That was the basic question that was studied. And then the answer became EQ. And another question was also, how come in face of adversity,

some people crumble and some people thrive? How is that possible? And how can that be measured? So those were the questions that led to discovering EQ and the importance of it. And then of course we had the book by Daniel Goldman, who shed light on it. And now we know more about EQ and what it is. So what are the habits of somebody with a high EQ? Can you give some examples?

Yeah, so EQ is not a one thing. It's actually a set of skills that you have that we can define with self perception. So it's really, how do you look at yourself? Do you make goals? Do you achieve your goals? Do you have emotional self-awareness? That's all part of self-perception. And then that leads to self-expression. Once you're aware of all that, do you know how to express yourself? Do you know how to express your emotions? Can you be assertive? And are you emotionally independent of what others think and say?

That leads to interpersonal relationships. So how does that impact your relationships? What is your level of empathy and social responsibility? Do you do a involuntary work? It's all interconnected. And then we go, so this is the EQI 2.0 wheel that I use. There are different methods, but I believe this one is the most powerful. It's very complete. So the first step is then the decision making. How does EQ help you in problem solving, in staying realistic,

and control your impulses? All that is part of EQ. And the last part is stress management. So how do you stand in life? What is your level of flexibility? What is your level of stress tolerance? And also optimism. Optimism is a huge part of EQ and one of the conditions to measure happiness.

And so is emotional intelligence associated with a particular type of personality? For example, are extroverts more inclined to have a high EQ than introverts? No, not at all. Not at all. It's for everybody. It's not a personality thing. It's more a skill set, I would say. Life skill set that can be developed. So it's not that it's something fixed. It's not that you do a test and you get a score

and that's it for the rest of your life. You can definitely develop it. And that's the interesting part about it. And I'm so happy that people and companies are becoming more and more aware of the importance of emotional intelligence. And I hope this will go on into schools helping to raise our children differently

than purely on IQ. One of the topics that we study a lot on this podcast is body language. Obviously, words are not the only way to communicate. Our bodies convey thoughts and feelings and send messages that others can pick up and use to make judgments about us. How does emotional intelligence play when it comes to body language? If you are aware of yourself, if you are chasing your goals, if you have better relationships with others, it changes completely the way you stand in life physically.

I mean, you stand taller, you speak up, you care more about others, you are more empathetic, you are more inclined to have better relationships, you smile more, etc. So whatever is inside is then visible on the outside because it's just so obvious the way you feel. So I hope that's clear. But yeah, you act differently, you talk differently, you walk differently. It's physically completely all over the place. Yeah, totally. I had this guy chase Hughes on the show before,

and he is a former FBI agent and police trainer. And so he was very skilled in assessing body language. And one of the things that he told us is that a simple thing to do to make yourself appear more confident and just seem like you've got it together is to just make your bed in the morning. Make sure you've got a super clean room because even something that small can show

on your outside, on your external, that you don't have it completely together. You might not sit up a street or talk as clearly. And so it's just like what you said. If you're actually achieving your goals and doing the things you're setting out to do and being positive in your life, then it will show on the outside,

even without you trying. Exactly. Yeah. Okay, so one of the things that surprised me while I was doing research for this episode is that study after study, it showed that emotional intelligence scores drop for those who hold director titles and above, and actually CEOs have the lowest EQ scores in the workplace overall. So why do you think that is? I know that you work with executives every day. So what are some of the top emotional blind spots

that you see with them? Well, first of all, the higher we come, the more responsibility we have to get things done and to achieve goals. So we tend to be more goal oriented and result oriented instead of the feeling and the relationships and the empathy that goes with it. So there is this pressure to achieve and to get things done that plays a role.

It's also when you look at yourself, when you're in an extremely stressful situation or in front of a deadline, then you can have an extremely high EQ, but at those times it can kick in and you go into stress reaction mode and you forget about all those things, right? You communicate differently or you're less optimistic and you're stressed, etc. So I think stress plays a role and the fact that they have to achieve things plays a role that they have this huge responsibility. And also the fact that when we look at CEOs,

and now I'm not talking about CEOs of the youngsters of 20 years, we launched a company called themselves CEOs, talking about the real CEOs that I work with, they are often older than 45, 50 years old, and the time when they were in school and when they were learning leadership skills, EQ wasn't that important yet, EQ wasn't that known yet. So everything was focused on IQ on hard skills and the soft skills weren't developed much.

So I think it's also a generation thing and that the next generation of CEOs will have a higher EQ. And do you think that it has anything to do with the fact that they always have to make tough decisions? So I know that when you have a lot of empathy, it's really hard to make tough decisions like letting people go, dissolving a business unit or whatever it is. Do you think that has anything to do with it? I don't think so. Making tough decisions is actually part of EQ and being empathy doesn't mean that then you can't do it. It just means that the way you do it and the way you communicate it is differently and more efficiently, but it doesn't mean that it's more difficult to do. Of course, if you are leading a company with the heart, everything is felt, but when

tough decisions have to be made, then they have to be made. And that is what is expected from a decision maker. And I hope that those tough decisions will be made from a space of a higher EQ where communication will be better, sharing info will be better, and empathy will be part of everyday life. Cool. Well, this is so fascinating. How can we improve our emotional intelligence? What are your tips for that? Young and profitors, do you have a brilliant business idea, but you don't know how to move forward with it? Going into debt for a four-year degree isn't the only past to success. Instead, learn everything you need to know about running a business for free by listening

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it. Shopify is a platform that I use every single day and it can take your business to the next level sign up for a $1 per month trial period at shopify.com Sush profiting again go to shopify.com Sush profiting all lowercase to take your business to the next level today again that shopfly.com, slash profiting all lowercase. This is possibility powered by Shopify. Well, of course you can go and read about it, or watch TED Talk, et cetera, but I think the fastest way is to simply look at your EQ. So that's by reaching out to EQ certified coach and let him do an analysis on you. It's very simple.

You get a link and you answer a few questions, takes about 20 minutes, and then you get your report. Well, it's very personalized based on the answers that you gave to have a clear overview of, okay, what is the level of your EQ and on each individual aspect of it. And then there are loads of tips and tricks on how to improve that in the report.

So I think that's the fastest way to go and look at your own EQ and not the theory around it. Awesome. That sounds great. I'll definitely give that a try. Well, I can do it for you. So I was doing some research about you. And one of the things that piqued my interest in that major story, so compelling, is that

you're dealing with a son right now that has some special needs. So, for my understanding, he's about seven years old and he's got DMD. Can you tell us about this condition and can you tell us about that difficult time in your life when you found out about his condition and how you processed all the overwhelming emotions that came with that news? Yeah, it was about a year and a half ago. We just celebrated his sixth birthday and we got the diagnosis that he has Dushen muscular dystrophy. So a muscular dystrophy, meaning that his muscles slowly but surely break down and there is no cure yet. And whatever we do, Hala, we do it with muscles. So our bodies have more than 600 muscles. And you know, whether it's walking, talking,

but even swallowing or closing your eyes, we use muscles to do that. So when those break down, slowly but surely, then we simply can't live. So the maximum life expectancy for Dushan patients today is about 25, 30 years old. And of course we keep hope that the cure will be found and do the best we can. And so what are the biggest takeaways that you've learned from this?

And how did you do the things you needed to do to ensure that your son had the best life possible? It was extremely difficult when we heard that there was something wrong with that knowing what, a muscular dystrophy was a possibility and Duchenne was the worst case scenario. So the period that we had to do a lot of tests, that was the most difficult because you live between hope and despair, between what could be and what you wanted to be. And that insecurity was for me the hardest period. It was actually before the diagnosis that it was the hardest for me. But having some knowledge on emotional intelligence, I let it guide me.

I mean, when I was sad, I would just cry. And I wouldn't judge myself for crying. And it sounds extremely weird. But there was actually a part of joy and relief and simply letting myself cry and saying, I have every right to be sad now. This is sadness that's going on in my body and I let it out by crying. And then the diagnosis came and with the diagnosis, that was 9th of June 2017, those dates you never forget anymore.

With the diagnosis came also part of relief of, okay, we know what it is now. The insecurity is gone. This is a fact and now we have to live with it. So of course I cried that day, but the same evening we were living in Paris and France is an excellent country for healthcare system. Everything would be free and he would have the best healthcare, etc.

But that evening, I told my husband, I said, you know what? Let's move to Dubai. It's like what? We had discussed moving to Dubai several times before. But now, I was like, okay, the career, the relationships, the family, anything can wait. We have to go to Dubai and just give the best life possible to our son. Because the doctor told us that the best thing for him would be the son and swimming. Well, in Paris, you can't swim all year long, it's too cold.

And in Dubai, you can. So three months later, we moved to Dubai. We live in Dubai now, we're very happy. My son is doing great, relatively. And yeah, it gave me this boost of energy of saying you know we live life as if we're going to be a hundred and now it's in your face that we're not going to be so let's enjoy and let's do the best we can and of course the first thing I did was make sure I had this army of healthcare providers around me for him I chose the best school

possible that was very to inclusion and helping him around. And now that that sets, the only thing we can do is enjoy, enjoy, enjoy. Wow. Well, your son is really lucky to have a mom like you. You're so brave and you're so brave because you've been very public about this whole story, which I'm sure is so emotionally hard for you to speak about. And you've been very public about this journey on LinkedIn to help other people. And I was reading through some of your articles, and in one of them, you wrote that emotions are your mentors. And I thought that was really powerful, and a good way to kind of close this topic out

on emotional intelligence. So can you share with us what that means? Yes, emotions are our mentors. Emotions are not there to harm us or to prevent us from making the right decisions. It's completely the contrary. Instinctively, we were born with emotions to protect us, to survive. So that's the role of emotions. When you're angry, your body literally gets ready to fight or flight.

When you're sad, your body literally gets ready to get that sadness out of your system by making tears. When you're afraid, adrenaline pumps in your body so that you can run. So it's all there to protect us. Emotions are our best friends. However, in society, we've been thought that we need to hide our emotions. And I think that's one of the worst education errors that we are making. And that's why you see also the difference between men and women, because men are taught that men are not supposed to cry,

boys don't cry, et cetera, et cetera. So they are taught that whenever they are sad, they shouldn't cry. So what happens is you see men, and of course I'm not generalizing. I'm just saying, we see this very often, that men that are sad, they don't express sadness, they express anger. They start hitting a wall or become aggressive, and that's not normal.

That's not the logical consequence of sadness. And it's the same for women. Women are taught that crying is okay okay and being angry is not okay. When you raise your voice or you act the way we naturally act when we are angry, we are taught that, you know, your bossy or ladies don't talk like that or you're not pretty when you look like that. And all those things go in our head and make us act differently. And I used to be the same until I understood all this. I used to cry when I was angry.

Well, that's not logical. When you're angry, you're not supposed to cry. That's another thing that your body wants you to do. But since we were told that it's not okay to show anger, but it is okay to cry than women cry. So, there is a whole lot of emotion intelligence Correction to be done and I hope the next generation will do it is better than what we've been doing But yeah, we have to stop telling boys that they're not supposed to cry

We have to stop telling our girls that it's not okay to yell and we have to let people express their emotions of course in an appropriate way, but emotions are totally normal and are our best friends, and the day we start embracing them is the day we start realizing what a superpower we have. Awesome. I think that was incredible advice for our listeners, so thank you very much, and thanks for sharing that personal story. So another expertise that you have under your belt is negotiation. And from my understanding, you are a certified professional negotiator, and during your finance career,

you actually led lots of high-stake negotiations, and more recently, you took a year-long masterclass and were mentored by some of the best negotiators in the world. So I'd love to spend some time on negotiation as this topic is something that my listeners actually request for pretty often, and this is the first time we're talking about it on the podcast. So very excited for that. So I'm in marketing and when I think of negotiation, I think of it being a once in a blue moon activity. I don't really consider

myself to be doing it every day. I negotiate a salary before starting a job, maybe in my performance review, if I do really well and I want to raise or whatever it is, but I'm thinking I'm probably taking it too narrowly. So, how is negotiation used in a typical day-to-day job, if it's not a core skill that's required of the job? Yeah. Well, whether we realize it or not, we negotiate every day. It starts with a alarm clock.

Am I going to listen to the alarm clock? And then we negotiate all day with our partners, with our managers, with our team, with our children. It's part of life. I mean, it's the same as breathing. You can't not negotiate. Whatever there is conflict, there is negotiation. So it's part of everyday life, but we

tend to think of negotiation as something like that only hostage negotiators do. But that's not the case. And talking about hostage negotiators, and being, I've been trained by two of the hostage negotiators do, but that's not the case. And talking about hostage negotiators, and, indeed, I've been trained by two of the best negotiators in the world, their French negotiators, they came in and gave us a year-long masterclass when I was still working at the Stock Exchange. And I was part of this high achievers group thingy

where the company wanted to invest in. And they came in a year-long every other week and we learned all the aspects we had to learn about complex negotiations and what it is and how we can improve ourselves and it was truly fascinating. I mean, I've done so many trainings in my life and those two were absolutely the best I've ever had. And I love negotiation. I was always intrigued by it and I think when I was about 15, one of the first books I bought was on negotiations. So it's always been a passion of mine and I love learning more.

And then I decided to go further and go to the certification and I applied. In order to be a CPN, certified professional negotiator, you have to do the entire course and then you have to send your resume, a reference letter, etc. etc. And then there's an international jury of professional negotiators looking at it. And if the majority says yes, then you get it. No, actually, it's I think seven out of nine have to say yes. And then you get the title. So I got it in 2014. And then it was for me just like a nice two-have. I put it on my profile on my CV and that's it. It didn't do much with it ever since. Of course, I kept negotiating in my life and kept using everything that I had learned from them.

And last year, they decided to expand because they have way too much demand. They can't handle all the demands they have. If you want to book them now for a training, you have to wait like six to nine months and they decided to accept others to give those trainings for them, but they're really hand picking them because they've created this fantastic method and they want the standards to stay very high. And they asked me, they said, Luce, we see that you're in Dubai, would you be interested to give those trainings there? And I was like, how I was dancing in my, they don't know this, if they heard this now. I was dancing in my office thinking, yes, of course. But first I had to negotiate some things with them, so I stayed very calm.

Yeah, in the last six months we've been preparing the trainings and I've started giving them in the Middle East and now I'm in Paris to give one this week. And then I'm over back to Dubai and next to give you a few interesting events with one of them. And you can Google them. They're fascinating. Their names are Laurent Combalbert and Marwan Marie. They're both French and their lives

have actually inspired the CBS series, Rensom. Oh, wow. And then if you've seen Rensom, you had the life of a professional negotiator and it's fully based on their lives. Oh wow. Maybe I need to track them down and get them on the podcast. Do they speak English? One of them is excellent in English. Even to school in the United Kingdom and the other one has a lovely French accent when he speaks English. Well that's very interesting. They sound so fascinating.

Before we get into some of the newer techniques that you've learned, and hopefully we can start to unpack those, can we talk about some of the traditional negotiation methods that some of us might have heard of that might not be relevant and might actually be ineffective? Yes. Of course, we all have this idea that the ideal negotiation should be a win-win, but what is a win-win? 90% of people who start negotiations who aren't trained,

they go in it as a competition. Like, whatever I win, the other one loses, and then the win-win, it doesn't really apply then anymore, does it? Because not any negotiation can be completely 50-50. So what people then do is they want something and then they ask something way more and then I think they will meet somewhere in the middle. But that's just so old-fashioned and not the way it is in reality. So what does work? Can you share some of your favorite best practices and tools when it comes to negotiation? Yes, it's a lot of self work actually. If you want to be a good negotiator,

you have to work on yourself. So that's where again, coaching comes in handy as well as emotional intelligence. It's important to know yourself. It's important to be humble and to know what you can do and what you can't do. It's important to be able to put your ego aside. Ego is ruining a majority of negotiations.

And it's also important to be connected to what you really want. What is it that you want to get out of this negotiation? And what is the need you're trying to satisfy? And then if you put the ego aside, then you can make it very clear what the need is that you're trying to satisfy and find even other options that you didn't think of before. So for example, if you talk about a salary increase, if you go to your manager and say,

you know, I want a salary increase of 10% where in your head you were thinking, okay, I would like to have 5%, I would just say 10%, etc., etc. The question is, what do you want the salary increase for? What is the need that you're trying to satisfy? Is that need for example that you want to feel accomplished, that you want to feel recognized? If that's the case then money is probably not going to help you do that and if it does it's going to be a very short term. So if it's really a recognition that you want, maybe the other ways, for example, giving you more responsibility or a title or a team, would make you feel way happier

than the 5% if you get it. So it's very important to stay connected to yourself, to say, okay, what is it that I really need? What is the need that I'm trying to satisfy here and what is the best way to get it and stay connected to that. And then another tip is, as soon as you can get it, say yes. People often tend to think that, oh, I got something, then I can get more and more and more and more, and then it becomes a game. And that game is rarely going to end in a satisfied way because you always think you could have gotten more, and that feeling is horrible. So if you're connected to yourself, you know what your needs are and you can get it, then say yes and call it game.

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Get unlimited access to every class. And right now as the app listener, you can get 15% off when you go to masterclass.com slash profiting. That's masterclass.com slash profiting for 15% off an annual membership. Masterclass.com slash profiting. Very good advice. And so one of the things that I read is that it's very essential to prepare for a negotiation. So is that what you were speaking of before when it's just knowing what you want or is there something more to that?

Yeah, there's definitely more to that. And preparation is key in a good negotiation. We even say that preparation is 80% of a good negotiation. If you prepare everything, then that will allow you to improvise during. Because in the end, it's not a fixed thing. Every negotiation is different. It depends who you're negotiating with. Every person is different. Even if you negotiate with the same person, again, we completely different based on the subject you're negotiating on or the moods they're in. And since it's a lively thing, you have to be able to improvise during the negotiation. And that's why the preparation before is key. Also, what majority of negotiates forget is after the negotiations, you have to debrief

on the negotiation, you have to learn from the things that went well and the things that you have to improve because that is the preparation for the next one. And so how does psychology play a role in negotiations? Oh, it is an essential part of negotiations. When you're trying to know who you're dealing with, psychology plays a utero because we tend to see the world the way we are, we tend to see people the way we are. We think that everybody thinks like us and our logic apply to everybody, that's just not the case. So if you open up and you try to understand who you have in front of you and who you're dealing with, psychology plays a huge role.

And because we don't know who we have in front of us, and we don't know if they have any mental conditions, because it can be that we are negotiating with someone who is, for example, narcissic or who is, for example, a psychopath. Then, of course, you adapt your negotiations style completely. So, yeah, psychology plays a huge role, and again, it starts with the psychology of yourself, knowing yourself, understanding yourself, and then being open and curious to understand the other. Wow, there's so much to this. We could spend a whole episode on negotiation. So exciting. Oh, completely. I can talk about this for a month. One of the things that I heard you say before is that women tend to be better negotiators

than men. So can you explain that to our listeners? Why is that? Yes, it's again, it's not that we were born better negotiators, but in the education that we got, women tend to be more empathetic. We are better capable of creating a relationship with another, of creating an environment of safety and trust, because that's what we've been doing naturally, naturally, women tend to be more caring,

and all that is essential in negotiations. Empathy is such an important aspect to create a relationship with another. When I think create a relationship, I mean, just create a link with another, enter into a conversation, and if you just create a link with another, enter into a conversation. And if you don't have that, then obviously you can negotiate. So that's one aspect.

And another reason is also that women tend to be more intuitive. We are more connected to our intuitions. We have developed that more. Again, I don't think women are born more intuitive. I think we just developed it more because we were more allowed to develop it, whereas little boys were expected to be irrational and problem solvers. So since we have developed intuition more, we can tap into that. And as I said, while you're negotiating, there's a huge part of improvisation.

And when you're connected to your intuition, you get access to that part of your brain that goes intuitively to all the things that you've gone through in your life and how that has shaped you, what you've learned from it, and access to that knowledge way quicker than if you go through it with the rational brain. So those are the two aspects that make it

that women tend to be better negotiators. And at the same time, when you look at the world of professional negotiators, only 10% of professional negotiators are female. Wow, so we've got a lot of work to do, women. Yes. And that's one of my missions, when power women to take on negotiation roles,

because we have everything it takes. Awesome. So before you go, I knew that you started a new growth methodology called scale. Can you explain that to our listeners? What is that? Yes, I've created a method called scale up and it has two branches. I'll try to explain it quickly. So there is scale up for success and scale up for fulfillment.

I want to mention to close the gap between success and fulfillment. I work with executives every day who have everything it takes to be successful, yet they feel empty or unhappy. They have the title, they have the name, they have the job, they have the beautiful car, and the family and everything is fine, but they don't feel happy, they don't feel fulfilled. And that's the same that I had in investment banking. That's the reason that I had in investment banking. That's the reason why I got out. And now, looking back and everything that I've learned, I am convinced that

this gap can be closed. We can be end successful and happy at the same time. When I go into companies, I show them the subjects that I give training and conferences on, and then Scale Up stands as for soft skills, see for complex negotiations, a for agility and active listening, L for leadership, E for emotional intelligence, U for unique strengths and P for public speaking. So it's like a brochure, okay, this is what I do. However, when I start working with executives and we go one on one, then we go way deeper and then scale up stands for something completely different.

And then it's only for the ones that are ready to go there, to do the uncomfortable things that we have to do. So then scale up stands for self accountability, to take accountability and responsibility for who you are and where you are today. Then we move to the sea of consciousness, to become aware of who you are, the way you think, your thinking pattern, your behaviour pattern. So then I use a personality analysis, those kind of things, to give an insight of who is it that you are.

Once we know more about that, we move to A for acceptance. So whatever it is, we have to start accepting the way we are and we have to start accepting life, the way it is today so that we can change it and change what we don't want, but at least start from a point of acceptance. That is one of the things that Muskulodisturbo of my son taught me. You know, I can be so angry at the world, I cannot want this, but this is what he has. So unless I accept it, I can't go and figure out what's the best thing to do for him, because I waste a lot of time and energy in not wanting what is there. So acceptance is key in everything we do. And then I take it even a step further.

I said, okay, now that we are aware of who you are, that we accept, then how can you move further and actually start loving yourself? So the else stands for love, self-love. I think this is key in leadership and key in life and we don't talk about it enough, that self-love is so important. So there we do a lot of work on self-forgiveness, on looking back, and forgiving yourself for everything that you're blaming yourself, that is not allowing you to move forward,

and create the sense of self-love, self-acceptance, self-pride, to watch all the things that you have done very well, and the people that you care about, and the people that care care about you and how important it is that you love yourself because we can't give what we don't have. So how can you love anybody if you don't love yourself? And then we talk about self-impowerment, e. for self-impowerment, where, okay, they come to me with an objective, and we've gone through this whole process of self acceptance and then itself empowerment. Then it's about goal setting, it's about believing it, it's about visualizing it, it's about making clear steps of how to get there. And then the you stands for up, get up, off your butt and do it.

So use that for up for action because this is not all wishful thinking or theory, we're actually going to do it. So use that for up for action because this is not all wishful thinking or theory, we're actually going to do it. So then we make clear goals, I check in on them and we get the things done. So we get our hands dirty and we get the work done, whatever it is that is their objective that we created the goals on, the you is for doing it. So then once they do it, once they reach their objective and they've gone through this whole process of scale up and they feel better about themselves and they are proud and they achieve their goals

or at least partly, then without exaggerating, this is a life-changing process. They come out of it a different person. And then just as in leadership, when you go through that, and when you grow, I believe you have the responsibility to help others. So then we come to pee, which stands for paid forward. Now that you've gone through this, how can you help someone else? And it doesn't have to be something huge, like world peace.

It can just be something like, be a better father, be a better husband. Most of my clients are male, that's why I say that. Or, you know, be a better leader, help someone do volunteer work, whatever, explain the scale-up method to someone else. What can you do to help someone else with all the knowledge that you gain through this and with the changes that you went through? Awesome, well I feel like anybody would be lucky to have you as a coach. And to be honest, this was one of the best interviews I feel like I've ever had. It was so fun to have you on. Thank you so much. Wow, thank you.

Where can our listeners go to find more about you? Well, LinkedIn. I'm quite active on LinkedIn, so they can just connect with me on LinkedIn. And if they want to know more, they can send me a message and me, or one of my team members will reach out. I know we're in 2019, and I still don't have a website and everybody is saying, like, Luce, please make a website. And I'll do it.

But my calendar is full, like, two to four months in advance. And I have this lovely lady who is waiting for me to give the info to make my website, but I just don't have the time. So I'm also kind of like being a bit rebellious. Like I know we're 2019, but I don't have at the time. So I'm also kind of like being a bit a rebelist like I know we're 2019, but I don't have a website. So anyway, it will come one day, but until then LinkedIn is my friend. Yeah, and just so you guys know, she is so popular. LinkedIn, her post got like 500 likes a post and I was very

impressed by that. So it turns out you don't really need a webpage. We got a good LinkedIn profile. So nice. Well, thank you so much for taking the time to speak with us. I know you're on a business trip in Paris right now, and you took out an hour of your time to teach our listeners some of your gems. So we appreciate that. And I hope you enjoy the rest of your trip.

Thank you so much. Thank you. It was great chatting to you. Thanks for listening to Young & Popping Podcast. Follow up on Instagram at Young & Popping. And check us out at Young & Profiting.com. And now you can chat live with us every single day on our new Slack channel. Check out our show notes or Young & Profiting.com for the registration link. And if you're already active on Yap Society, share the wealth and invite your friends.

You can find me on Instagram at Yap with Hala or LinkedIn, just search my name, Hala Ta. And a huge thanks to our international Yap with Hala or LinkedIn, just search Runny, Hala Tah. And a huge thanks to our international Yap team. My partner in crime, Timothy Tan, producer Stephanie Shiv and his sham, our audio producer, Danny McFatter, marketing manager, steeps, and her promotions team, Kayla and Parth, are web manager, Christian, and project manager, Ryan.

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