Young and Profiting with Hala Taha - Mark Batterson: Social Entrepreneurship | E154

Episode Date: January 31, 2022

How do you use your entrepreneurial drive to better your community? This week on YAP, we’re chatting with pastor, author, and social entrepreneur, Mark Batterson. Mark is the lead pastor of National Community Church, the largest church in the Washington DC area. He is also the author of twenty-two books, most recently Do it for a Day and the Win the Day journal which helps people to build healthy habits and lose the ones that are no longer working. When Mark was chosen to lead the National Community Church in 1996 the church had just nineteen members. Since then, the church has expanded into a congregation of thousands of people operating from around twenty locations. The NCC also owns and operates Ebenezers Coffeehouse, the largest coffeehouse in DC, The Miracle Theatre, and the DC Dream Center.    In this episode, we’ll learn what it’s like to be a social entrepreneur and run a business supporting a cause. We’ll get an inside look at Mark’s unique and fulfilling career as a pastor, community leader and entrepreneur. We’ll learn Mark’s 7 Life Changing Habits and understand Mark’s perspective on making and breaking habits. And lastly, we’ll gain insight on how to better stick with our habits using commitment devices, and how to create a chain reaction of good habits with the domino effect.  If you’re interested in social entrepreneurship or want to learn how to better tackle your goals and create healthy habits - this episode is for you!  Sponsored by -  Constant Crowd - To start your free digital marketing trial today, visit constant contact dot com. BrandCrowd - Check out brandcrowd.com/yap to learn more, play with the tool for free, and get 73% off your purchase.   The Jordan Harbinger Show - Check out jordanharbinger.com/start for some episode recommendations Social Media: Follow YAP on IG: www.instagram.com/youngandprofiting Reach out to Hala directly at [e-mail] Follow Hala on Linkedin: www.linkedin.com/in/htaha/ Follow Hala on Instagram: www.instagram.com/yapwithhala Follow Hala on Clubhouse: @halataha Check out our website to meet the team, view show notes and transcripts: www.youngandprofiting.com Timestamps: (1:36) - Hala welcomes Mark to the show (2:20) - Mark’s Early Life and His Pivot to Becoming a Pastor (4:20) - Mark’s Business: Ebenezer Coffee Shops (7:20) - Coffee with a Cause (9:40) - How Mark Built Ebenezer’s Coffee (13:50) - Mark’s Many Hats (15:00) - Mark’s Journey to Becoming an Author (16:45) - You’re Never Too Old to Learn Something New (18:26) - Mark’s New Book: Do It For a Day (20:12) - Win The Day: Habit Building (20:40) - Flip The Script (21:44) - Kiss The Wave (23:06) - Feed The Frog (23:57) - Fly The Kite (25:17) - Cut The Rope (26:26) - Mind The Clock (27:46) - Seed The Clouds (32:15) - Habit Formation (34:14) - Mark’s Habit Cycle (36:10) - Change of Pace and Place to Change Perspective (37:18) - The Domino Effect (42:51) - What is a Commitment Device? (46:06) - Understanding Your Personality to Build Habits (47:25) - One Action to Take To Become More Profiting Tomorrow (48:18) - Getting Goal vs Giving Goal (49:40) - Mark’s Secret to profiting In Life Mentioned In The Episode: Mark’s Book Win The Day - https://amazon.com/dp/0593192761  Mark’s Website - https://www.markbatterson.com/ Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

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and Participating Source. Taxes and other fee still apply. You're listening to YAP, Young and Profiting Podcast, a place where you can listen, learn, and profit. Welcome to the show. I'm your host, Halla Taha, and on Young and Profiting Podcast, we investigate a new topic each week and interview some of the brightest minds in the world.

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Our subject matter ranges from enhancing productivity, had to gain influence, the art of entrepreneurship, and more. If you're smart and like to continually improve yourself, hit the subscribe button, because you'll love it here at Young & Profiting Podcast. This week on YAP, we're chatting with Pastor, author, and social entrepreneur, Mark Batterson. Mark is the lead pastor of the National Community Church, the largest church in the Washington, D.C. area. He's also the author of 22 books and his most recent book being Do It For A Day, Had a Make or Break Any Habit in

30 Days, which will cover in today's conversation. When Mark was chosen to lead the National Community Church in 1996, the church just had 19 members. But since then, the church has expanded into a congregation of thousands of people operating from around 20 locations. The national community church also owns and operates Ebenezer's Coffee House, the largest coffee house in DC, the Miracle Theater and the DC Dream Center.

In this episode, we'll learn what it's like to be a social entrepreneur and run a business supporting a cause. We'll get an inside look at Mark's unique and fulfilling career path as a pasture, community leader, and socialpreneur. We'll learn Mark's seven life changing habits and understand Mark's perspective on making and breaking habits. And lastly, we'll gain insight on how to better stick to our goals using commitment devices and how to create a chain reaction of good habits with the domino effect. If you're interested in social entrepreneurship or want to learn how to better tackle your goals, this episode is for you. Hey Mark, welcome to Young & Profiting Podcast.

Well, thank you so much. Did you enjoy to be with you? Yeah, likewise. We're super excited to have you on here. For those who don't know you, you are the lead pastor of the National Community Church in Washington, DC. You are also a New York Times best-selling author of 22 bucks, including Do It For A Day and Win the Day. And for today's episode, we're going to really focus in on Do It For A Day, which is your methodology around how to build habits. And it's super fascinating, one of my favorite topics. And in addition to that, we also want to cover

your journey because I found your journey really fascinating and unique. And you have some great life lessons about that, about following your purpose, following your gut. So I would like to start there. When you were first setting out on your journey, you ended up getting a scholarship to the University of Chicago for basketball, and you were gonna study law, but then you quickly decided to abandon those dreams and become a pastor. Let's start there.

Talk to us about your start with college and how you made that big decision. Yeah, you know, let's be honest. I probably went to the best college I could get into. I barely got into the University of Chicago playing basketball, probably helped my case a little bit, but I was, I studied politics, economics, rhetoric, and law, just kind of this liberal arts degree and planned to go on that path, thought that maybe law would be something I would be interested in. Long story short, I really

had this moment where I felt like maybe just maybe ministry pastoring a church would be something that I would want to do, but I would want to do it in a unique way, kind of from the ground up. I had this entrepreneurial streak that I love starting things. And so we actually started with a core group of 19 people. And a couple decades later, we've had the joy of impacting tens of thousands of people. And I might add giving about $25 million to causes that we really care about that make a difference in people's lives. And so it's been a joy ride. Nothing easy about leadership in any venue or any vein. But I kind of consider myself a spiritual coach

and like coaching people towards purpose, towards meaning, and really leveraging the gifts that I believe God has given to each one of us. It's super, super interesting. And I really love what you've done with the NCC and how you've really built that business model around your church. So from my understanding and from my research, I found out that you guys actually own one of the biggest coffee shops in Washington, DC.

It's called Ebenezer and it's actually a chain of coffee shops. It started with you guys buying one property in the early 2000s and then opening your doors in 2006 and it kind of just took off. And I just found this so fascinating. Why a coffee house and what can we learn about having a business from a cause and all the success that you've had? Yeah, I think every business is owned by someone

and they have some kind of motive in starting it and if we're just keeping it real, you know, some people it's primarily a profit motive and you know, I'm grateful that we live in a capitalist society where we can pursue dreams and I have nothing against that. But we started this coffee house with the idea that what if we actually gave all the profits away to causes that we care about?

And so it really is coffee with a cause. Now I better back up a little bit. So we did buy a piece of property about about five blocks from the capital itself right on capital hill block from union station. So it is location location location. In fact, we're kitty corner to the security and exchange commission. And so we've often joked if you can't make a coffee house work kitty corner to like thousands of people in law and finance. Like you probably can't make a work anywhere. So we do have a great corner here on Capitol Hill. And it's been an amazing, amazing business.

I think caffeine makes the world a better place if we're just being honest. Like, I don't know about anybody else, but when I get up in the morning until I get my caffeine, you don't wanna spend a whole lot of time with me. Oh yeah. I mean, I need my morning coffee, and so we feel like we're both

caffeinating the world and then using those profits for some wonderful things like the DC Dream Center that we operate in Ward 7 and is just an amazing outreach to a part of our city that is under resource. And so we're mentoring kids. We served 64,000 meals last year. And so it's really this wonderful outreach, but part of what funds it is this coffee house

that we own and operate here on Capitol Hill. It's just so interesting that that's how you decided to kind of find the different projects that your church takes on. And I have to imagine that a lot of people support the coffee shop because it's related to the church. And that a lot of employees really love their job because it's so fulfilling even if they're not making like a whole ton of money and working at a coffee shop, they know that it's going towards a good cause. So talk to us about that a little bit in the culture that it's driven Yeah, I think the coffee tastes a little bit better feels a little bit better when you know that It's making a difference

And in fact we use our space part of our coffee houses We have a performance space that, you know, we can do events for 150 people. Well, every, every week, once a week, we turn that into something we call the living room for our friends experiencing homelessness, which are kind of live on the streets around DC. And so part of what we do is also leverage our coffee house, just to love on our neighbors, people that find themselves without a roof over their head. And so we feel like there's a way to do business with excellence. Now, we've been around since 2006. So way back then, there weren't all of these third wave independent coffee shops, which they pop up everywhere, right? But back in the day,

it was Starbucks. We felt like, you know, if you can't compete with Starbucks, just stay out of the game. But now more and more, the coffee business has evolved in so many amazing ways. And so we want to serve a great cup of coffee, but then there's this social dimension to it. And, you know, it's not like we came up with that idea. I think about someone like Tom Shoes, for example,

that kind of famous example, where by a pair and you end up giving a pair. And so there is something about that business model, though, that resonates. And I think it resonates with younger generations. I'd be interested in your take on this, because there's such a, there's an instinct towards justice, an instinct towards the good of our culture and of neighbors. And so, I'm,

have you seen that as well? A lot of business models that, yeah. A lot of millennials and Gen Z, like they don't care about the money necessarily. Like they need a certain amount of money and then everything after that is more about meaning and purpose and, and, you know, their place in the world rather than, you know, how much more money they can make on top of whatever they're already making. So I totally agree there. So I think there's something like pretty special in what you're doing. I think it's very unique. And I just wonder is there any way that we kind of could lay out that that business model a little bit more

deeply for the listeners so they can understand like, hey, if I have a great cause that I want to support, you need money to actually do that. So there is a need to actually generate revenue and sometimes just asking for donations is just not enough and is not a proactive way to actually fulfill your dream of giving back to society or improving society. So talk to us about that and kind of your advice for somebody who wants to build a similar business model. Well, maybe I'll come at that from this angle that along with this coffee house, there's another piece of property, a city block.

It's a hundred thousand square feet that we have been building out into something called the capital turnaround. Ultimately, it'll be a mixed use retail restaurant. But one of the things we observed in our city is that our mayor said that one of the top priorities is childcare or child development because there aren't enough spots observed in our city is that our mayor said that one of the top priorities is child care or child development because there aren't enough

spots for those preschool kids and in DC most people are you know double income and and so you've got people working in they need someone to watch your kids well instead of as a church building a kids ministry space which we did and it's about 20,000 square feet, it's got an indoor playground, it's got a kid's theater, it's a pretty amazing. But instead of using that once a week on the weekend, we said, what if that could be a Monday to Friday child development center? And so we have one of the largest child development centers in the city capacity for about 200 kids. And where I'm going with that is, I think it's an entrepreneur, you need a dream.

You absolutely need a vision of what you wanna do. And it ought to be in keeping with those passions that you have because that's what's gonna get you up early and keep you up late and give you the energy to go after that dream. But the other thing is, you got to have a good pulse. You kind of have to take the pulse of the culture around you and what are those needs? What where are the gaps?

Where can you, as an entrepreneur, step in and even find unique ways of meeting those needs? One fun thing is, I know, I even think about coffee shops. All we have is just a coffee shop, but isn't it interesting how I've seen so many bike shop coffee shop tandems pop up? And it's such an interesting thing to me. It's like, do these two things really belong together? But I think entrepreneurs are good at cross-pologizing and getting ideas from different places. And then, let's not just do it the way it's always been done.

That's how you repeat history. Why don't we make history and do it the way it's never been done before? And so, part of what has driven us as a church, and I would say, driven me as an entrepreneur or even as an author is just there's a way there are ways of doing this that no one's thought of yet. And so that's pretty exciting and I know some people are listening right now and they have an idea and it sounds like a crazy idea.

Can I just say hang on to those crazy ideas because because that often is the thing that's gonna differentiate you from the market and allow you to bring something to the table that maybe no one else has tried before. I totally agree. I think your story is so inspirational. And I really find your career so interesting, because when you think of a pasture, you don't think entrepreneur,

but yet so much of what you do is actually entrepreneurship. And I really feel like you've hit the nail on the head in terms of like passion, but then also like financial stability and creating jobs for other people and just like helping society. So it's just, you must feel really fulfilled. So with that, I'd love to hear

about all the different hats you wear because you wear a lot of hats. So let's come back that a bit. Well, I wear a few hats. My day hat is pastoring a church, and I love it. I feel like my job is to comfort the afflicted and afflict the comfortable in the sense of, there are a lot of people hurting. I mean, come on, one third of Americans say,

we're anxious or depressed. There's just so much happening in culture from racial tension to political polarization. And I want to be someone that stands in the gap and is really good at loving people and helping people. I think potential as God's gift to us, what we do with it is our gift back to God. So that's kind of the the pastor hat.

What's interesting is the writing hat, it's actually not a natural gifting. When I was in grad school, I took one of those assessments that basically shows your aptitude for different things and my aptitude for writing was so low. It was basically whatever you do, just never think about writing a book.

So we're having a little bit of fun here, but some people ask if it's a fake background behind me, I've got all of my bookshelves. No, I read 3,000 books before I wrote one because I knew that it wasn't a natural gifting, so I had to work a little bit harder than maybe other people who can naturally put pen to paper. And so, you know, the writing piece has just been, to be honest, a lot of early mornings.

And as a word of encouragement, because I think the latest stat I've seen is that about 81% feel like they might have a book in them. And so, to that, that potential author that's out there listening right now, I just want you to know that I felt called to write at 22, but I didn't write a book until 35. So hang in there. Don't be discouraged. It's going to probably take longer than you think. It might be harder than what you want, but about 13 years, but I didn't waste my time in between. I was not just reading those books. I was reverse engineering them. And so the pastor hat, the writing hat, and then that entrepreneurial hat are a few hats that I enjoy wearing. I guess maybe I feel like right now I'm just self-diagnosing is a little bit of ADHD that

I get easily bored. I don't like doing the same thing for too long. And my hunch is a lot of people that are listening to this podcast kind of have that you're gifting is to start things or you have new ideas and it's that entrepreneurial streak. And so hopefully there's some encouragement in there somewhere. Oh, yeah. Your story is super inspirational.

And it's clear you love to make an impact. And I love the fact that you said, you know, if you have the itch to write, don't worry about how old you are. You're never too old to learn something new and to start something new. Even me with this podcast, I started when I was 28. I started this podcast when I was 28. I started this podcast when I was 28. And I'm number one podcast on the cover of podcast magazine, blah, blah, blah. And it took a few years to get there, but it's okay, you know, and it wasn't my first

road either. And I didn't waste my time before that either. Like you said, it's not like you just sit there and do nothing. You have to learn, gain the experience, gain the skills. And then you might be ready to kind of hit the ground running when you do want to take on something now. I love that. And you know, full disclosure, I should probably share

that you know, I've had the joy of, starting with the Corgurba 19 people pastoring this one church for 25 years now. But my first attempt was a fail. And I probably ought to put that out there. And so I really believe that the cure for the fear of failure is not success. It's failure in small enough doses

that you build up an immunity to it. And so I think in some ways you have to experience some failure preferably earlier in life. And then it gives you the ability that okay you can get back up, dust off and give it a second try because I think you know largely success is well-learned failure and failure is kind of poorly learned success right and so it's about learning those lessons along the way, especially in those, those early years, where some foundation is being laid for your life. 100%. So let's move on to your new book. It's

called Do It For A Day, How to Make or Break Any Habit in 30 Days. And so one of the things that you say in your book is we are one habit away from getting into shape, financial freedom, and getting better mental health. So what do you mean by that? We're one habit away from getting into shape, financial freedom, and getting better mental health. So what do you mean by that? We're one habit away from making all these changes. Well, you know, big picture. Show me your habits. I'll show you your future. Destiny is not a mystery.

Destiny is daily habits. So whatever goal you're going after, I think a lot of us, we want to dream big, kind of set this goal, but you have to reverse engineer it into those daily habits. So, for example, a few years ago, I ran the Chicago marathon, and it's the first one I've ever done, and I'm not a distance runner, you know, I played some basketball in college, but I was more of a sprinter. Well, I couldn't just go out and run 26.2 miles. I had to download a training plan and then reverse engineer it. And so 475 miles over 72 training runs over six months. That's how things happen. Like if you want to get out of debt, it is going to happen one paycheck at a

time. And it's gonna take tremendous discipline. And so just a big believer in those habits and the word of encouragement is like, you can accomplish so much more than you imagine. The catch is you've gotta have that daily discipline, that daily habit, and that's gonna be the thing. And it's true physically, financially, I think spiritually and relationally. Let's hold that thought and take a quick break with our sponsors.

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One of your really, really popular books called When the Day, you have seven life changing habits, and you use these habits in your new book. And I thought it would be great if we could do a little quick fire segment where I will rattle off these seven habits because they're just great life lessons in general. And I'll say the habit, and then you give us a like, you know, 30 second, one minute explanation on each one.

So the first one is flip the script. Yeah, change, if you want to change your life, you have to change your story. And I think the narratives that we are internal monologues, sometimes we're our own worst enemy. And so you really have to make sure that you're telling the right story. And so in cybernetics, there are two kinds of change, a first order, second order.

And second order change is conceptual. It's this idea of, you really, a habit can't just be something that you do. It has to become part of your identity. Maybe the easiest way to say it is quit saying that you're writing and call yourself a writer, quit saying that you're running and call yourself a runner. You got to own that identity. So flip the script. You got to change the story. I love that. I You got to change the story. I love that.

I had a guest on the show. Her name is Marisa Peer. And she always says, tell yourself a better lie. Like lie to yourself. Like you are a writer. You are an entrepreneur. Even if you're not yet, tell yourself a better lie. Yes.

Yep. OK, kiss the wave. Yeah. And this is a tough one because I don't think the obstacle is the enemy. The obstacle is the way. It's the hard times that you walk through. It's the tests that you go through that are going to make you the bigger, better person

that you need to become. And so kiss the wave is this idea. I'm going to embrace it. In fact, can I just, on a personal note right here, because I'm guessing that there are some people that might find themselves in this situation, my wife, a couple of years ago diagnosed with cancer, and that's so hard when you get that news,

but there's one or two things that you can do. One is you can just kind of give up and sort of play defense, but my wife read a piece of poetry that posed a question and it said, what have you come to teach me? In other words, like you're going through a tough time, maybe there's someone out there who's going through chemo or radiation or there's some kind of struggle

that you're walking through. You have to kiss the wave, you have to learn the lesson, cultivate the character, make the change, whatever it is. And so just a little challenge there to kiss the wave. Yeah, like embrace all the obstacles that come your way, basically. Okay, feed the frog. Yes, so Mark Twain said, if you ever have to eat a frog, do it first thing in the morning, then you'll know that the hardest thing is behind you,

which is kind of hilarious, because I can't imagine that scenario, but it's this idea of, harder is better. Do it difficult. You gotta get up and hit the ground running. And so, eat the frog is this idea that the way you gain strength is through resistance training. And so, I talk a little bit about things we can do,

commitment devices that can enable us to really eat the frog and cultivate some of those harder disciplines, especially with that morning routine. And we will definitely talk about commitment devices to make and break habits. All right, fly the kite. Yeah, so the idea here is if you do little things, like they're big things, in my experience,

God has a way of doing big things that like they're little things. I think we wanna do amazing things, big things, but really if you study exceptional athletes, for example, or musicians, or people who are just really good at their craft. The reality is they're just better than the best of us at the basics. They really, someone asked Pablo Kassal is one of the greatest cellists of all time. I think he was like in his late 80s, early 90s, and he was still practicing like six hours a day.

Imagine that. And someone asked him why, and I think his short answer was, because I think I'm getting better. It's this idea that, you know, flying the kite is just getting 1% better every day. It's this mindset that I wanna benchmark and get a little bit stronger, a little bit

smarter than I was yesterday. Yeah. And in your book, you have a quote, how you do anything is how you do everything related to fly the kite. And that is literally my all time favorite quote. It has been for years. It's such a good one. Okay.

Cut the rope. Yeah. At some point, you got to take the risk. Playing it safe is risky. The greatest risk is taking no risks. And so there comes a moment. And by the way, I love in my books, I usually try to include quite a bit of science and history

because I like geeking out on that stuff. But cut the rope actually comes from one of the original, the OG elevator pitch. A guy named Alisha Otis who in the crystal palace, the world's fair debuted his elevator break and did it in dramatic fashion. He said, cut the rope and an ax man literally cut the rope and his elevator break worked. And the next thing you know, there are hundreds of skyscrapers in New York City, but it traces back to someone who was willing to take the risk. And without that elevator, you don't have all those skyscrapers.

And so kind of a fun story to back that one up. Oh, I love that story. Okay. Wind the clock. all those skyscrapers and so kind of a fun story to back that one up. Oh, I love that story. Okay, wind the clock. Yeah, time is measured in minutes, life is measured in moments. And so I think what we've got to do is be a little bit better at really enjoying

the moments of life. We're in such a hurry, aren't we? I think 100 average person spends 122 minutes on social media. And I, listen, I love the phone, the technology, the way that my phone gives me access to so many things and so many people. I love it, but there's a great danger

in that we're so distracted, that we can kind of miss what's happening around us. And so the idea here is, and there are actually there are two words in the Greek language for time. One is Kronos and it's this idea of the minutes. And we've got to be good at time management. Like that's part of the deal. But then Kairos is not just time but opportunity. And so we also have to be better at understanding the season of life that we're in.

And when moments present themselves, like learning to really wine the clock and enjoy those moments. Okay, last but not least, seed the clouds. Yeah, and this one I have a little bit of fun on the science side because you can drop dry ice into clouds and seed the clouds and cause it to rain. There's a fun little story about the origin of that. And the idea here is that you've got to you've got to prepare today for what you want to experience tomorrow. And you would think that this is self-evident and so obvious, but the truth is, most of us want to,

we want to win the lottery instead of win the day. We got to want to get lucky instead of fate favors the prepared. Like, let's do our homework, let's do our groundwork. Like I imagine that I bet you studied a lot of other podcasts, you watched what other people did, you did your homework, and then you launch it, and then you keep learning. And so you're always seeding the future, seeding the clouds.

And so I think faith is being sure of what you hope for. And it's pretty critical that you you won't accomplish 100% of the goals that you don't set. And so I do have 100 life goals. And what those goals do, by the way, is I think they they sanctify the reticular activating system, the part of the brain that determines what we notice and what goes unnoticed. And so what goal setting does is, okay, now I'm gonna notice anything and everything related to accomplishing this goal. And so I do think that goal setting is a piece of that puzzle.

Yeah, and I completely agree with you. You have to put in the reps. Just use me as an example, so I'll just dig deeper on that. I have to put in the reps. Just use, you used me as an example, so I'll just dig deeper on that. I used to work at a radio station. Young and profiting podcasts is like my fifth show. I had online radio shows. I had a YouTube show.

I had a Facebook show. I built a cat Twitter. I hacked LinkedIn. Like I knew how to use social media. I did social media for corporate companies. And so I stuck all those things together and then launched my podcast. And so I stuck all those things together and then launched my podcast. But it was after all these things

that I had been sewing to your point. And Tim's story calls us work in your land. It's actually taking action every single day towards that bigger dream and leveling up your skills. I love that. Working your land. And one of my MOs is this idea. Jesus actually said this,

be innocent as a dove, shrewd as a snake. And the idea here is, innocent as a dove, you always have to check your motives. Can I just challenge us, everybody on this call, like you gotta check your ego at the door. I've got a mentor who, by the way, says there are two kinds of people in the world. The first kind of person walks into a room

and internally announces, here I am. They kind of, it's all about me, myself, and I. They're kind of feel like they're God's gift to everybody. But then there's a second kind of person that walks in and says, there you are. There you are. It's all about everybody else. If you just look to add value to other people,

if you check your ego at the door, then I really think there's no limit to what you can accomplish because you're not gonna short circuit. It's not gonna come back and bite you in the back. And so, innocent as a dove, I think is key. If you do the right thing for the wrong reason, it's not going to turn out the way that you want it to. But then you have to be sure it is a snake. And I love that because I think you've got to be really

good at your game. I want to be really good at everything from communicating in public, which is what I do on the weekend to writing, I work my craft. I can literally spend an entire day like in a thosaurus trying to figure out what is the best word right here. So I think it's about really working hard. And the way I say it is, you got to pray like it depends on God, but work like it depends on you. And if you do those two things, usually some good things happen. Guys, Mark is dropping so many bombs right now. I advise that you go rewind that little bit back

and get inspired and motivated to work. See where hard. Okay, so let's talk about habit formation. So 45% of our behaviors are made up of habits. If you guys listen to this podcast, you know that already. We always talk about habits on this podcast. So something interesting that I found in your book

was that you say that habit formation is as old as a sermon on the mount. What does that mean? And is habit formation or the concept of it really that ancient? It really is. I mean, I think long before B.S. Skinner came along or Ivan Pavlov and taught us about condition reflexes or operant conditioning, I would argue that the sermon on the mount, which is is kind of Jesus' most famous sort of message to the world. I can reduce it down

to just six counterhabits. Love your enemies. Pray for those who persecute you. Bless those who curse you. Turn the other cheek. Go the extra mile and give the shirt off your back. That's a quick crash course in the sermon on the mouth. Here's the thing. None of those things are natural. Like if someone slaps me, my reaction is to slap them right back. And so what's happening here?

Well, I would call them six counterhabits. And so yeah, I think this idea is pretty ancient and I think that habit formation and spiritual formation may be the same thing. And I realized, you know, I love the fact that a lot of different people from a lot of different faith or non-faith backgrounds listening to this.

And so you have to put that through your filter. But the truth is, habit formation is at the heart of anything and everything that we try to do. And so, yeah, I think Jesus had some good things to say about that. Yeah, so I know that you have your habit cycle that you talk about in your book. And it's very similar to Charles Du Higgs habit loop,

which is a Q routine and reward. So talk to us about your habit cycle and what the steps are to make or break any habit. Yeah, and let me go on record, you know, like any other writer, you're researching what everybody else writes and the truth is there's nothing new under the sun. All of us are sort of reinventing, recasting so many other ideas. So I love Charles Duhig, great book on habits, same with atomic habits. So many amazing books.

I take my unique slant on it, and I think it is. You have to identify the prompt. There's so many triggers that we have for better or for worse. And then you have to interrupt the pattern. And that's hard to do because we are these creatures of habit. We just, the way I would say it is, once a routine becomes routine, you have to change the routine,

even because it's the law of requisite variety. It's this idea that if you go to the gym, which good for you, but if you work out the same sequence on the same machines every single time, it actually loses effectiveness because your body adapts to it. And so what a trainer will do is actually confuse your muscles. How? Well, they'll give you a different incline on the bench or they'll make you do some kind of exercise with a tire instead of with a weight. What they're doing is the law of requisite variety.

You have to change the sequence, mix it up, then and only then is your body going to react to that and grow from it. In fact, here's a little formula that maybe people can jot down and it's something I put into practice all the time. Change of pace plus change of place equals change of perspective. And so what I need to do is change my pace. If I'm always running at the same pace, I'm going to get in trouble because it doesn't allow me, sometimes you have to walk three miles an hour to get different mindsets or different ideas. And then change a place. There's just something about, for me,

oh man, get me a 30,000 feet. I just have more better ideas. I don't know what it is, but that change of place is huge. And so you've got to figure out how and where you can go to change, pace, change place to kind of get that change of perspective. Hmm. Very interesting stuff. So I'd love for you to share a story with us. So in your book, you talk about the Domino Champ Bob Speca and how he did really well with Domino's and you describe a term called the domino effect in habit formation.

So talk to us about the domino effect and this domino champ. Absolutely. I think it traces back to a guy named Lauren Whitehead, an engineer who published a study in the American Journal of Physics. And it was called domino chain reaction. What he discovered is that a two inch domino is capable of knocking over a domino this one and a half times its size.

So a two inch domino knock over a three inch, three inch can knock over four and a half inch. And so I just have a little bit of fun with it. By the time you get to the 18th domino, you can knock over the leaning tower a piece of. Of course it's leaning, so that's not entirely fair. You get to, I think it's the 23rd domino you could take down the Washington Monument 27th domino I think the Eiffel Tower and by the time

you get to that 28th domino you can knock over the Burj Khalifa tallest building in the world. There's this idea that don't get overwhelmed by the huge goals or the things that that by the huge goals or the things that are so far out there, just focus on that two-inch domino. If you write 100 words a day and you do that five days a week, that may not seem like much, but when that year is up, you've written yourself a book. So don't get overwhelmed by the quantity or size, break it down into those dominoes. You know, when I started training for that marathon, I could barely run three miles.

It was killing me. It was killing. And for the record, like I did not win the Chicago marathon, okay, I finished in the middle of the pack, but for me the fact, yes, I finished. Thank you. I've finished. They give you a medal for finishing, right? And so, you know, you have to start small and then just stick with it and don't try not

to get too discouraged. I think this idea of just do it for a day and then getting a wind streak going where two days in a row, three days in a row, that's where the magic happens. It's about creating winning streaks and it's breaking it down into that daily discipline. Maybe can I share one other kind of simple example? Yes, 100% whatever you think to drive it home. Maybe can I share one other kind of simple example? Yes, 100% whatever you think to drive at home. I think I'm a little bit concerned,

and this is not an indictment, per se, and it really, this doesn't matter where you land politically or anything else. There's just a lot of negativity these days. There is a lot of negativity. And one of the things that I do to fight negativity in my own life is I keep a gratitude journal, three gratitude a day. And I just jot down, what am I grateful

for? What am I like? Wow. Like I get to do this. Or I'm just so thankful for this or that or the other thing. And what that's done in my life, just by coming up with three gratitudes a day, that little daily habit totally changes my mindset, changes my heart and how I feel at the beginning and end of the day. And so that maybe is a simple example. I promise you, you find three things you're grateful for every day and it can really change your outlook and your attitude

and how you feel about life. Oh, I totally agree. And what you said before about, you know, taking action every day, taking these small steps really reminded me of something Jeff Hayden told us when he came on the show, Jeff Hayden's, he wrote the motivation myth. And basically, it's this concept that like motivation doesn't happen first, you actually need to take action first. And then there's this motivation feedback loop where you take a little bit of action, you know, you get good results, you get motivated to do it again, and then, and then you get more good results, and you're motivated to do it again. But if you don't start, you never get any of that feedback, and, and people think that motivation is gonna fall from the sky, but really it doesn't, you have to actually start. And yes, there's going to be ups and downs, but every time you get that up,

you get that motivation to keep going. And as you learn more, you get motivation to keep going because you understand more and it just gets a little bit easier and easier every time. That is so good and so true because that first step is the hardest one. By the way, the key moment for me in writing that first book, after 13 years of kind of a dream deferred, was I leveraged my 35th birthday

and I said, I'm not gonna turn 35 without a book to show for it. It may not be very good, may not even be edited, but I'm just, I'm finally, I'm throwing down the gauntlet. And so, you know, part of it is you've got to give yourself a start date and a deadline, because a dream without a deadline is called a wish. And so, in some ways, it's just about, you have to, you almost have to jet-eye mind trick yourself. You have to give yourself self-imposed deadlines and and sometime and there are ways

you can bring other people into the puzzle that kind of holds you accountable to that, but you got to find ways. You have to know how you're wired. What's going to motivate me to really go after this, but that's so true. You got to, you cannot finish what you do not start. We'll be right back after a quick break from our sponsors. Hear that sound, young and profitors. You should know that sound by now.

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you can get 15% off when you go to masterclass.com-profiting. That's masterclass.com-profiting for 15% off an annual membership. Masterclass.com-profiting. Okay, so I think you are alluding to a commitment device. So what is a commitment device and how do we use it to make our break habits? Yeah, you know, it's funny because I think the most obvious commitment device is something called in alarm clock.

You know, it's this idea that when you get up every day is a pretty significant factor because if you're getting up just in time to kind of eat breakfast, get a shower, get out the door and get to work, I don't think that's a recipe for like accomplishing your dreams. I don't think you're going to get in shape that way. I don't think you're going to get out of debt that way. I don't think you're going to get in shape that way. I don't think you're going to get out of debt that way. I don't think you're going to grow spiritually, relationally that way. And so you really have to leverage out alarm clock.

A commitment device is simply, it's giving yourself a deadline. It's putting things in place that force you to actually do what it is that you're saying that you're going to do. What's fun is I actually leverage occasionally in one of my messages, you know, and I have the privilege of speaking

to a few thousand people every weekend. And one of the things I do, and this is a little trick of the trade, is I'll go public with something because I know that then I'll hold myself accountable. So I announce in a message, hey, I'm gonna run a marathon when I couldn't even run three miles yet.

So there's a commitment device is basically something that forces your hand. It's making that appointment. It's filling out the application. It's doing something that initiates that process and forces you to commit to it. Yeah, and I think sometimes it can be a financial investment. They always say that if you actually pay for a course

or a coach, you're actually gonna follow through because you made that investment when it's free. Like you're just like, oh, I guess I could flake and it doesn't really matter. That's so good, because then you have skin in the game. And so fun fact, the coffee house, Ebenezer's coffee house that we own and operate on Capitol Hill,

it was a crack house, it was the dilapidated property, and it wasn't even zone commercial. The first thing I did, I was at an auction at our kids' schools, and there was some book on the zoning codes for Capitol Hill. And I remember I bid $85. And it would have been a total waste of money

if we didn't buy the property and eventually rezone it and eventually build the caveats. But you know what, I go back to that moment and it was a unique moment because I put, it was only 85 bucks, but it was me putting some skin in the game. And so I think that's so good that you, you have to invest a little bit in it just to

kind of get it off the ground. You know, I talk to all these experts all the time. So I always have like everyone's like thoughts in my head of all the guests that I've studied over the years. And so Gretchen Ruben recently came on the show and she breaks down the world into four personality types. And I feel like this really resonates with people who are one of her personality types called obligers, which mean that they really need external accountability to get anything done. And so part of this is knowing your personality. So like, for example,

I'm in a holder and I actually don't really need that much external accountability. That means that if I decide to go on a diet, I go on a diet because I told myself I would. If I want to exercise three times a week, I do it. I don't need a gym partner or a trainer or whatever to go do it. But if that's you and you have trouble sticking to your internal goals and anything that you don't have external accountability for, then you need commitment devices and when you're trying to start a habit. And so you need to proactively do those things to make you stick to those goals and to

those habits. And so I also think knowing yourself and what you're good and not good at is key to all of this. Oh, that's so good. And that maybe is where the whole thing starts that, yeah, you have to know yourself really well. That leadership starts with self-leadership. And so much of that is really knowing the way

that you're wired. It's crazy. I think some of us know more about our favorite celebrity than we know about ourselves. That's what I'm talking about. And so it's that ancient idea, know that self. Yeah. All right, so as we wrap up this interview,

a couple questions that I ask. Oh my guess at the end of the show. What is one action we can take today to become more profitable tomorrow? Oh, wow. I love it. Can I just, here's the first thing that comes to mind. When I set 100 life goals, the turning point for me was when I shifted from getting goals to giving goals.

It totally transformed the way that I think. My goal is to give it all away. And so instead of setting getting goals, you set giving goals and you have to get a lot to give a lot, but there's something about that that setting giving goals was a huge turning point for me because it made it more of an altruistic kind of motivation, which really changed the game for me. Let's dig deep around that. Say a getting goal versus a giving goal or like flip it on its head to become giving. Yeah, like a getting goal is, hey, I want to be financially independent by 50. I want to make that first million,

or I want to have a net worth of X, Y, and Z. And I get that. Like, there's nothing wrong with financial planning and planning for retirement. But my wife and I, our goal is to give a greater and greater percentage of our income away. And part of that is motivated by what I see in the person of Jesus and I see in scripture

that our goal is to eventually live on 10% and give away 90%. And so what we've done with every book contract is that we give a greater percentage away. And I tell you what, that's where joy is found on the giving side of life. And then it makes the getting feel really good because you know that you're going to be a conduit for blessing other people. And so, yeah, it's a simple idea that, you know, we want to give away

a million, 10 million, you know, as a church. We want to give away 25 million. We've hit that goal. And so now we're dreaming bigger. Like how can we give it all away? I think that mindset is really a game changer. Yeah, it's super interesting. I never heard that one before. And what is your secret to profiting in life? The secret I think to profiting in life is to it's not about you It's just it's not about me It's about other people when I add value to other people's lives. That's where I find joy That's where I find meaning and it's kind of like happiness if you seek it you aren't gonna find it happiness is a byproduct of something else I think meaning is the same way like, and here's where I would challenge listeners.

Have you ever defined success for yourself? Not adopting a cultural definition, not adopting your great uncle's definition. No, you, what a success for you. And so for me personally, success is when those who know me best respect me most. And that's my wife and my kids. You know, it's not about how many books I sell, how many people I pastor.

It really is about, am I better in private than I am in public? And if not, am I at least the same person, I want to be famous in my own home. So you really have to define success for yourself and figure out otherwise you fall into what Stephen Covey famously said. So many people are so busy climbing the ladder success that they fail to realize that it's leaning against the wrong wall. Man, that was so powerful. I want to repeat that quote about respect. What was that quote? Yeah, for me success is when those who know me best respect me most. And that's my wife and kids. And so really, and especially right in the world that we live in where a lot of people, there's

just a lot of come on. There's a lot of trolling and shaming and baiting and canceling and kind of everybody's doing this to everybody. At the end of the day, I care most about the people who know me and love me. You start there, make sure that that grass is green, right? Right where you live and then let it expand out from there. That is amazing advice. Thank you so much, Mark. This was such a lovely conversation.

I loved learning about your journey. I loved learning about your perspective related to habits. And then this last bit about your secret to profiting in life was also amazing. So thank you so much for your time. My joint privilege, God bless. It was so great to chat with Mark today and speak to him about his path to leadership

and social entrepreneurship. He's been committed to helping people change their lives for the better for almost three decades. He helps people achieve their goals every day, and not only through writing, but also through his preaching. As Donald Miller would say, he is a true guide. Mark is skilled in the art of creating good habits and setting achievable goals. He says he started his coffee house thinking about how he could give the profits away to

causes that he cared about. He tried to make coffee with a cause, and he says that his coffee tastes better because of that. Mark says to always be thinking about what will differentiate you from the rest. He reminds us to hang on to those crazy ideas, because it's those crazy ideas that's going to differentiate you from the market, and allow you to bring something to the table that nobody else has tried. I believe the best way to start a wind of change in the world is through entrepreneurship. And I've noticed a significant uptick in interest in companies that have basic alignment

to social responsibility, meaning their mission is not about just growing and making money, but also doing good for the universe. Mark is such a wonderful example of a social prunor, a person who sets out on an entrepreneurial venture with the intention of addressing social issues and contributing to the social good. In his case, it's growing and funding his church programs through the Ebenezer Coffee House and other venues. These businesses supporting a cause can have a for-profit, non-profit, or hybrid business model, but funds are typically used to support operational costs and to develop programs to support their target markets.

In Mark's case, he started a for-profit business that funds programs to support social issues in the DC area. The most significant difference between a socialpreneur and an entrepreneur is the end goal. The former is less interested in defining their successes through high-profit margins, but instead how their operations benefits communities of interest. And something else to note is that some of these social enterprises may not follow the typical organizational structure. For example, they can be run entirely by volunteers who do not receive a paycheck.

Ebeneezers is a great case study when it comes to small business social entrepreneurship. And in terms of big business, Tom's arguably puts social entrepreneurship on the map. It started as a one-for-one model, bi-appare shoes, and toms would give a pair to a child in need. Today, buying a pair of toms shoes or sun glasses provides shoes, water, safe birth, and bullying prevention services to people all across the globe. Another example is Warby Parker. In 2019, this IWare company had donated over 5 million pairs of classes to those in need

through their bi-appare, give-apare program. But in order to change the world and accomplish any goal on your to-do list, you need to take things one step at a time. And that's why today I want to leave you with a recap of the Domino effect. In 1983, physicist Lauren Whitehead demonstrated how one domino can knock down another domino, double its size. In 2001, a physicist recreated this experiment showing how a two inch domino could eventually topple the Empire State Building by the 18th domino and the Eiffel Tower by the 23rd domino. What's the moral of the story? It's the little things that make the biggest

difference. Small beginnings can lead to huge opportunities, but we tend to be enamored with the big stuff. We're conditioned to only see the monumental accomplishments rather than the everyday dedication it took to get there. There are three key things that make this domino effect work. The first is starting with the thing that you're most motivated to do. Start with a small behavior and do it consistently. This will not only feel satisfying, but also open your eyes to the type of person you can become. Remember, it doesn't matter which domino falls first, as long as one falls. Number two, maintain momentum. Immediately move to the next task you're motivated to

finish. Let the momentum of the finishing one task carry you directly into the next behavior. With each repetition you'll become more committed with your new self-image. Number three, when in doubt break things down into smaller chunks. As you try new habits focus on keeping them small and manageable. The domino effect is about progress, not results. Simply maintain the momentum and let the process repeat as one domino automatically knocks down to the next. This concept of the domino effect is really similar to the motivation feedback loop we discussed with Jeff Hayden back on episode number 148.

Jeff told us that it's the small successes that lead to constant motivation. Motivation is a pride you take in the work you've already done, which fuels you to then do even more. Motivation stems from success and fuels more success. So the only thing you need to succeed is just one small victory to get ahead start. And then you just follow that loop. Jeff calls this the motivation cycleation Cycle or the Motivation Feedback Loop. Back to our guest of today, Mark Batterson, he said, don't get overwhelmed by the quantity of things you have to do or the size of your project.

Break it down into those dominoes. And as each domino falls, you'll gain the motivation to move on to the next domino. Thanks for listening to Young and Profiting Podcast. If you enjoyed this episode, please make sure to drop us a five-star review on your favorite podcast platform. That is the number one way to thank us here at the show.

You can also follow me on Instagram at Yap with Hala or LinkedIn. Just search for my name, it's Hala Taha. Big thanks to the Yap team, as always, this is Hala signing off. Are you looking for ways to be happier, healthier, more productive, and more creative? I'm Gretchen Rubin, the number one best-selling author of the Happiness Project. And every week we share ideas and practical solutions on the happier with Gretchen Rubin podcast. My co-host and happiness guinea pig is my sister Elizabeth Kraft. That's me, Elizabeth Kraft, a TV writer and producer in Hollywood. Join us as we explore

fresh insights from cutting-edge science, ancient wisdom, pop culture writer and producer in Hollywood. Join us as we explore fresh insights from cutting-edge science, ancient wisdom, pop culture, and our own experiences about cultivating happiness and good habits. Every week we offer a try this at home tip you can use to boost your happiness without spending a lot of time energy or money. Suggestions such as follow the one minute rule. Choose a one word theme for the year, or design your summer. We also feature segments like know yourselfself better where we discuss questions like, are you an over buyer or an under buyer? Morning person or night person, abundance lever or

simplicity lever? And every episode includes a happiness hack, a quick easy shortcut to more happy. Listen and follow the podcast Happier with Gretchen Ruben. We did it! I still can't believe we got this project done so fast and so well. When I'm in New York, I'm in Chicago, and I'm in LA. But? We're making it happen in Miro. Together, our best work just happens faster on Miro's collaborative online whiteboard.

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