Young and Profiting with Hala Taha - Ned Fulmer: How to Go Viral on YouTube | E80

Episode Date: September 14, 2020

Today on the show we are chatting with Ned Fulmer. Ned is a member of The Try Guys, an online video comedy series, which was originally created with 3 other co-workers while working at BuzzFeed. The Try Guys Youtube channel has over 7.3 million subscribers and their videos have garnered billions of views--- making them one of the most successful channels in Youtube history. The quartet hosted Youtube’s 8th annual Streamy Awards in 2018 and they won the Audience Choice “Show Of The Year” award in 2017. The Try Guys recently put out their first book together called ‘The Hidden Power of F*cking Up,’ and they also host a podcast called “Trypod.” In addition, Ned is currently gearing up to launch a new podcast with his wife called “Baby Steps.”  Tune into this episode to learn why the only way to succeed is to commit to failing over and over again and get Ned’s top tips for going viral on youtube.    Follow YAP on IG: www.instagram.com/youngandprofiting Reach out to Hala directly at [e-mail] Follow Hala on Linkedin: www.linkedin.com/in/htaha/ Follow Hala on Instagram: www.instagram.com/yapwithhala Check out our website to meet the team, view show notes and transcripts: www.youngandprofiting.com Follow Ned Fulmer: Website: https://tryguys.com/ Linkedin: https://www.linkedin.com/in/nedfulmer/ Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/nedfulmer/ YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC6SF8DGvxDnB7kDqHis6TxA Podcast: https://tryguys.com/pages/podcast Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

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and profit. Welcome to the show. I'm your host, Halataha, and on Young and Profiting Podcast, we investigate a new topic each week and interview some of the brightest minds in the world. My goal is to turn their wisdom into actionable advice that you can use in your everyday life, no matter your age, profession or industry. There's no fluff on this podcast, and that's on purpose. I'm here to uncover value from my guests by doing the proper research and asking the right

questions. If you're new to the show, we've chatted with the likes of XFBI agents, real estate moguls, self-made billionaires, CEOs, and bestselling authors. A subject matter ranges from enhancing productivity, had to gain influence, the art of entrepreneurship, and more. If you're smart and like to continually improve yourself, hit the subscribe button, because you'll love it here at Young & Profiting Podcast. Today on the show, we're chatting with Ned Fullmer.

Ned is one member of the Try Guys, an online video comedy series which he originally created with three other co-workers while working at Buzzfeed. Now the Try Guys are independent, and their YouTube channel has over 7.3 million subscribers with their videos garnering billions of views, making them one of the most successful channels in YouTube history. The quartet hosted YouTube's eighth annual Streamy Awards in 2018, and they won the audience choice show

of the year award in 2017. The try guys recently put out their first book together called The Hidden Power of Fingup. And if that wasn't enough, the try guys also host their own podcast called Tripod. And last but not least, Ned is gearing up to launch a new podcast

with his wife called Baby Steps. And this episode will learn why the only way to succeed is to commit to failing over and over again, and we'll get Ned's top tips for going viral on YouTube. Hey Ned, welcome to Young and Profiting Podcast. Thanks for having me. We're so looking forward to this interview. You are such a star.

You have an amazing background story. You're really living every millennial's dream. To introduce you to my listeners, your YouTube star. You are one of the four members of the Try Guys. And in fact, according to the internet, you are the most popular Try Guys. So we're really excited about that. Oh my gosh, well, I'm on.

Yeah, that's what the internet says. And your YouTube channel has over seven million subscribers. You guys have over two billion total downloads, which is incredible. You know, we've had huge YouTube stars, like Evan Carmichael on the show, but you guys are actually like three times as popular as him. So just amazing in terms of your reach

and all the success you've had on YouTube. You and your try guys have also written a book and it's rose to the number one New York Times best selling list, the hidden power of f'ing up. And you also used to work at Buzzfeed, which is really interesting, but now you guys have one off to create your own independent company.

But before we get into try guys, how you started on YouTube, some of your YouTube tips, I'd like to get an understanding of your career background, is that sound okay? Sure. Okay, so we have something in common. We both got our under-guid in chemistry. I actually switched my major, but I found. We both got our under-god in chemistry. I actually switched my major, but I found out that you got your under-god in chemistry and you actually

started your career off as a chemist and used to do comedy at night. And so tell us like, why did you choose chemistry? Was your family really like pressured you into getting some sort of traditional job? Were you afraid of kind of taking the risk of being a comedian? Like, what was that all about? Well, I was always really passionate about it. I've always felt like I'm both an artist and a scientist and chemistry was that mix of math and and understanding of the way the world and how the world changes. And also, there's like sort of like you get to light things on fire. So being a closet pyromaniac, that was very exciting to be in labs.

But you know, in terms of why I chose to major in chemistry, it was, it was because I liked it. But I was, you know, I'm not gonna kid you. I mean, I'll be honest that having the idea of a backup plan for an entertainment career was certainly in my mind. I figured that I could do comedy with a chemistry degree, but I couldn't necessarily do chemistry with a comedy or a theater degree. Sure. And that proved to be true, that proved to be true for sure. I don't know

that I would have gotten the day job at these labs if they are like so you study, you have a theater studies major, but you say you're very good at chemistry. I don't believe you. Yeah, and I think it's really important for people to have a backup plan and to have skills that they can always kind of fall back on. If for some reason try guys, one way today or all these different endeavors that you did, one way today, you could always get a chemistry job, which is really important to have that security. That's true. And when I was doing a ton of unpaid comedy shows in Chicago, that security blanket and having a job to do during the day was helpful.

I definitely remember a couple of times at my job, though I would be running an experiment in the background and working on writing some sketches. And I remember printing out like a 50 page script for a show that we were doing. And my boss at the chemistry lab walks over and sees in the printer and he's like, hmm, what's this? I was just, you know, I just just print something that I need. I can totally relate. I work at Disney Streaming Services full-time and I run this like

pretty big podcast on the side and I always take my interviews during lunch and so I'm running around and people are seeing me like in a little foam booth, like with all my equipment and camera and everything like that and they're probably like, what is this girl doing? Although, cats out of the bag at this point. But cool, really cool stuff. So then tell me how did you end up getting a job at Buzzfeed? Because I think you started Buzzfeed in like 2013.

How did you have the experience in order to land that job at BuzzFeed? Like, what was that transition like and how did you get that job? I'm honestly not sure. My interview lasted like 13 minutes. I thought I bombed it. They just sort of asked me if I knew how to use a camera and to run sound equipment. And I said, yes, even though I hadn't gone to film school, I sort of knew how to do it. I mean, I had done a lot of like independent shorts

and YouTube shorts. So I think people that were interviewing like that. And I had also had like a fair amount of unpaid work experience in Chicago. So I definitely, I was 25, 26 at that time and had several years of experience even though I hadn't really had a job in the field before. And I just, I applied because it was in my neighborhood, actually, I wanted to get some film production skills and I was, I didn't really like the freelancing lifestyle of being by yourself all the time. And I wanted to kind of have a group environment so I could learn and make more connections

because moving out to LA and making a lot of connections was important. So that's really why I did it. I thought it was going to be a three month thing where I'd learn some physical production skills and make some connections and then go back to writing spec scripts and trying to work my way into TV writing career, but I had some good advice from a mentor who was a TV writer and he said You know, don't bother trying to get one of these assistant jobs where you're like getting

coffee for an experienced TV writer and doing that, because you could do that for two or three years. But he says this, the new media and digital media is something that everyone working in TV is really curious, slash afraid, slash interested in. So try and get a ground floor job and something in new media.

And that proved to be a very good advice, because here I am. I started as an intern in 2013 when there's only about 20 people in the company, fast forward to years later where it's hundreds of people and millions of subscribers and fans and I've learned a ton about how things go viral and how people share and distribute and make content on the internet. So it's just a really great educational experience, far more than I could have ever dreamed, like the film school I never have.

Yeah, that's amazing. It's getting hands-on experiences so key. And I love that you started as an intern. I think a lot of people don't realize that if you want to get into another industry, one of the best ways to do it is to actually get an internship because you're not required to have like formal experience. You just kind of need to have the interest and the passion and the attitude and the willingness

to learn. And usually people will give you a chance. And so it's a great way to pivot and kind of prove yourself and then work your way up. That's what I did. I used to be an entertainment and was an entrepreneur right out of college. I used to have a website. And then I got an MBA internship to work at Hula Packard as a marketer.

And so that's how I kind of started my marketing career. So I encourage everyone to get an internship if you have the bandwidth and you're in school. So let's talk about how you guys started try guys. I think you started it in 2014 around you guys were all guys who worked at Buzzfeed. So tell me about that story. How did you guys end up forming this group? It was in the early days of Facebook video. If you can imagine Facebook didn't even have video at that point and they were starting this whole

new video publishing platform. And so Zach and Keith were part of a group that was trying to understand how people shared things on Facebook and what would really go viral on Facebook specifically. And the idea of guys trying things within the female scope of an experience was something that was really relatable to a lot of women and was getting shared widely. And so we started thinking of ideas in that vein. And there's not like a formal casting process or a formal branding process. We just sort of did it because we were friends and also we were the only people that were

willing to wear a Victoria's Secret thongs on camera as guys. Probably as girls too, but the decision to call it try guys was just sort of, we do everything as a test and then see if it works and if people like it we'll do more of it. But there was no top down. You guys are going to be the try guys now. If anything, we kept having minor disagreements

with our management because having four people work on one project was counter to the ethos of Buzzfeed at the time where each person would make like six projects. Well, here we are, four people working on one big project. Yeah, that's so interesting. So it kind of just like all happened by accident. It was just whoever was willing to show their butts because I think your first video

was like wearing women's underwear, wearing swimming-women's thongs or something like that. That's so funny. And so you didn't really get to choose your business partner. As most people get to really like, it's either their best friend from college and they start a startup together or, you know, they have people apply to be their business partner or to join their company. You kind of just inherited your business partner.

So what's that like? Do you guys butt heads a lot? Do you guys get along? How do you split up the work? And does everybody have their unique role? Or is it kind of all just, you guys just work on everything? Yeah, absolutely. And so we have developed a very collaborative and fluid way of working with each other over now almost six years. And even though we kind of fell into it in the beginning, the decision to leave Buzzfeed and form an independent company was very much something where everyone had to be very on board with and to work very hard at making that happen. So even though we may not have chosen in the beginning, we have all recommitted ourselves

to this new journey that we're on. But in terms of dividing up responsibilities, we each can kind of the beauties we can all do a lot of things, but we kind of also tend to gravitate towards things that we prefer. Each project will have one of the four of us as a creative lead overseeing it, almost like a director and kind of guiding all the elements

and leading the staff towards that goal. And then more generally, we each do different facets of the business. And Keith Runs, our Patreon and Zach worked on our kind of organizing book very heavily. Eugene works on a lot of our external pitches and kind of forays into the TV space. I kind of handle the managerial personnel and leading our team, the financial aspects of things. So we all do different things, but as creatives, we all love to shoot, we all love to edit, and we all love to tell stories. And even though we do that in different ways,

I think that those differences make us a stronger unit. Yeah, definitely. I love how you guys all kind of came from the same schooling with BuzzFeed. And so you probably share a lot of philosophies and all know how to do a lot of cool things in terms of video editing and how to go viral and all those types of things. So that's very cool. So you guys ended up leaving BuzzFeed. You went independent in 2018. Does BuzzFeed own a part of Try Guys?

Like, what was that process like actually taking something that you created at a corporate company and then going independent? What was that like? Yeah, it was a difficult negotiation and conversation, but ultimately it's a win, right? We, although we have the ability to create a whole new brand and make it popular through our personalities,

it would be nice to still be called the Try Guys and have all the IP of our previous work. And similarly, even though Buzzfeed would have, they don't have any more, but they would have had the ability to recast the try guys and try and create a new cast dynamic that would have been pretty difficult for them. So I think ultimately it was something that made a ton of sense and we were able to purchase it outright and now we own it and control it completely and we're very proud of that fact and

I have really feel like now for our fans we can have that brand continuity that they feel like they're watching the same show and the same cast now and it's yeah two point out iteration i'm always'm always curious what things would have looked like if we try and come up with completely new branding, but all of our different ideas of what to call the show, or they had varying levels of success. And what was one of the top contenders? Oh gosh, there were so many silly ones. We were like, yeah, we'll call ourselves K and Z, E, like A, C, D, C, or some sort of cool four-letter rock band, which is just the four of our names.

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in terms of deciding to leave Buzzfeed? It really came down to autonomy and ownership. We wanted to have the autonomy to able fully do the projects we wanted to and invest in the things that we wanted to without having to have a conversation with management. And then we wanted the ownership over our own work. I mean, I think there's only once your career is grown to a certain point, there's maybe so much you can get

as an employee. Yes, totally. And so having the ability to really kind of build something ourselves that we had ownership and autonomy over was the biggest thing. Yeah. So tell us about your business model. How do you guys monetize, try guys, and how big do you think you can scale this company, too?

Well, we know that from the number of unique viewers, we have about every 90 days, there's 25 million people out there who are tapped in. So that's one goal is to take our subscribers from 7 million to 25 million. But of course, there's outside of that number, there's growing in new areas and reaching even more people. So we have some shows that are targeted to grow into new audiences.

Our Four Verse One series is a great example of that. We've played four simultaneous games against a blindfolded chess master and we all teamed together to try and take down a poker pro. I think like chess and poker would be not things that you might typically expect from what we're known as guys trying lady things like acrylic nails or high heels, which are some of our most popular videos. So those are efforts to expand into new audiences.

Our business model generally is to develop brands and then to reach the audience in a bunch of diversified ways. So if you think of the Tri Guys as a core brand, we can connect with our audience through YouTube videos, but we can also connect with them through our book. We went on the 27th City International Live Tour last summer, so that was a live component of podcasting, of course. So there's a bunch of different ways that we can reach people and entertain them and move

them. Those are all various aspects of our business. And then from there, we want to use the try guys as not just a brand of a core cast of four people, but as an umbrella of a different brand. So I think that you can sit with us podcasts that Ariel and the other ladies launched as part of that. Also Ariel and I are launching, this is a YAP exclusive, but we're launching a parenting podcast

called Baby Steps. That will come out of the fridge. And Ariel says, why is by the way? Yeah, Ariel is my wife, yes. Yeah, so it's kind of a developing of new brands and then also distributing various businesses around them is kind of our main approach.

Yeah, I had no idea that your wife's podcast and I think it's with the other try-guy wives or girlfriends, I'm not sure. I didn't realize I was under your brand. And my next question was gonna be, are you guys just focused on your brand, your try-guy's or are you gonna kind of branch out and try new ideas? So that's really cool.

Tell us about podcasting. Why did you guys start to get into the podcasting space? What interested you there? And then why this new Baby Steps podcast? What are you trying to teach the world with that new show? Well with Baby Steps, we are living in a totally different world now. We have coronavirus. A lot of parents are on the hook for baby care 24 or 7 and not having the ability to go

to a museum or out and about to help with that responsibility. And so we see there's a need to have entertainment and advice and kind of a comedy mixed with information out there. And we also see it as a way of, you know, the first time we had our child, there was so much that we didn't get to say so many stories we didn't get to tell. And we don't necessarily aspire to be daily vloggers or that sort of like parenting YouTube videos, but having a weekly podcast where we can tell stories and also come up with things like react to expert advice and trending product reviews. We reviewed something called the Freedom Balls,

which is an underwear for dads with a protective cup that prevents from baby kicks and glancing blows. Just funny stuff like that. But it's a parenting podcast for not so perfect parents, because we make it look cute on Instagram, but the reality is it is far more messy. So it's kind of an inside look at what it's like to be pregnant and raising a toddler during a pandemic.

Yeah, I love that. I think that's such a great idea for a show. So that comes out, you said September 6th. September 6th, yes love that. I think that's such a great idea for a show. So that comes out. You said September 6th. September 6th, yes, Sundays. Okay, awesome. So that's great. We'll definitely put the link in our show notes when the show comes out.

It will probably align right with your launch. So that will be awesome. You're probably also excited to do a creative project with your wife. What a great way to spend more time together and build new memories and bond, honestly. That sounds like such a... It's so awesome because we just get to chat for an hour, talk about funny stories and things

that happen. All the development work, the photo shoots, and coming up with all the branding. That's been really fun to do with her as well. We know we have a, we took such a cute photo of our son Wes with podcasting earphones and a microphone. He's just like kind of has a mischievous smile as he's standing on a chair. So cute that a photographer gave us a like a full, you know, giant like printout of it. That's now we're gonna hang in the new podcasting studio. photographer gave us a full giant printout of it.

Now we're gonna hang in the new podcasting studio. You and your wife seem like you have such a great relationship and it's kind of like an internet joke how much you talk about your wife, you always bring her up in conversations and things like that. So tell us like what's your number one secret to a great relationship? Oh gosh, what's my number one secret

to a great relationship? I mean, I think, you know, I talk about her a lot because she's really awesome, that kind of mutual admiration and respect, as well as communication, I think, is really important. You know, even when you're having disagreements, as long as you can approach the conversation from a place of empathy and respect and a willingness to figure things out and to work towards common goals. If you have the understanding that as long as you work at things, there's nothing you can't overcome. I think that that is a small perspective change,

but it makes a huge difference in terms of overcoming any obstacle. Yeah, and it probably helps that you guys have very similar ambitions. I mean, I think she's an interior designer, but she also is like into podcasting and kind of very supportive with you, interested in being like part of your overall brand.

And so I'm sure that helps. My boyfriend's like a famous music producer, and it helps me because he understands when I have to do all these interviews and like kind of always working. It helps when you have like two ambitious people who kind of like come together and try to make it happen together.

Absolutely, absolutely. So let's go back to try, guys. Some of your video topics, a lot of people might think that they're really click-bady, you know, like they're very shocking, they kind of have that shock value, but you say that really it's not about being click beatty or having shallow topics. You really try to have a message behind every video topic that you have. So tell us about some of the key things that you've learned or some of the key messages that your show tries to

bring about to your viewers. Sure. Well, we try to encourage people to try new things. We want to show that the world is not such a big place that it's rather small. We should celebrate our differences rather than let them see things that we push ourselves away from. We want to encourage people to connect with their loved ones and their friends and family,

share things that make them happy. And in terms of quick bait, I mean, we try and have engaging and exciting topics that people care about. You know, it's not, it's not quick bait if you deliver on the premise, right? I know there are some sometimes that people are like, whoa, I thought that this was,

I did a fitness transformation where I got a six pack and six weeks and people are like, whoa, I thought it was a Photoshop, like a prank, like, you're, I thought it was clickbait, but that was really an emotional journey and coming from place of male vulnerability and exploring that. Everything that we do, we try and deliver on the clickbait.

Do you ever wonder, this is an impromptu question? You guys are all, I think you have one Asian member in the group, we have three white guys, one of them is openly gay, right? Do you ever feel like you need like one more try guy like to like diversify it a bit, maybe a minority or something? Yeah, we have certainly, so adding new cast members and kind of new talent to the try guys universe is something we're actively pursuing. We have some in addition to the thing with our wives, which doesn't really count. Some of our staffers, why be in Alexandria, wanted to come up with a mukbang show where they're eating a lot of food.

So that's been something we've been investing in, as well as some external talent with some new shows that are coming out soon. But yeah, I think that while it may be, I don't know, that's something that we don't have any plans for now to change what the core quartet cast was, kind of adding new people to the umbrella of the Tri Guys universe. It's definitely something that we're actively working on. That's awesome. So let's talk about your book. You guys have a New York Times bestseller. It's called The Hidden Power of F and Up. What would you say was your biggest F up and how did you overcome it? In writing the book or just in life.

In life. In life. Oh man, oh man, gosh, that is. I can be anything. That is a hard question, my biggest F up in life. Honestly, one thing that really shifted my fate was I got a really bad knee injury when I was working in Chicago in 2013. That's what I, I, I, I, after up, I was running way too fast and like letting myself go out of control and tripped and fell and kind of, they had a really bad injury. I had to quit all of my shows, go off, like on a disability leave from work for a time

because the lab, of course, like required you to be able to lift 40 pounds to work there Interestingly enough But that was a moment where it really I was very stable working a day job at a chem lab and doing these fun shows at night that taking a risk and moving to Los Angeles or New York whatever whatever, you know, a larger market for me, LA was where I wanted to go. That's a very scary and difficult decision. Yeah.

And when you have the stasis of two improv groups you're in, when the sketch show that's coming up and then you still have to job, it's. It's very hard to just disrupt all of that. And say, you know, I'm going to move to LA with my dreams and a card again. Having that break in my life kind of forced me to reassess things and realize that that wasn't getting younger. And if I just kept here doing the same thing, I probably, wasn't getting younger and if I just kept here doing the same thing, I probably even though SNL auditions came by every year and you're always excited for that showcase and working on your material the other 364 days of the year. Yeah, that's that's a very long shot and really one of the few things that is open to

performers in Chicago. So essentially that injury led you to making that move and making that transition. Is that what you're saying? That's why you ended up in LA? Yeah, I think absolutely. It certainly accelerated that timeline. And probably it may be moving to LA even though it's something I was wanting to do.

Maybe it's something that, if I hadn't had that break in my life, didn't do. And that idea of taking a bold risk on yourself, I think is something that echoes in a lot of different facets of business. You know, I think that if you have the ability to, too bad on yourself, and to take a bold risk and to do something that other people maybe are afraid to do, that can make all the difference. Totally. And when you're so comfortable and you have a cushy job, it's so hard to take that leaf, to take that jump, because you feel like you have so much to lose. But when you already have something that's gone, it's kind of more easy to make that change and to take on that risk,

because you don't have as much to lose. So I definitely can relate there. So moving on to another topic in your book, you guys have a really cute philosophy on, you call it philosophy, on ways to tackle life and it's wonderful, terrible, uncertain glory. So can you tell us about this fail-office and how we can succeed by failing over and over again. Yeah, I think it's kind of related to what we're talking about with risk-taking. I mean,

there are so many ways that we let the fear of failure or the fear of effing up paralyzes into inaction or indecision, but the reality is life is full of mistakes and mess-ups and life is full of mistakes and mess ups and here I can like with the benefit of hindsight chart some like perfect like course of my career where A led to B and you know all the connections seem like wow how perfect that he was working at BuzzFeed in 2013 but like the reality is like there were so many moves that I made that didn't really pan out or we're like we're dead ends like was working at BuzzFeed in 2013. But like the reality is, there are so many moves that I made that didn't really pan out, or we're like, we're dead ends.

Like there's going to be so many mistakes that you make in your life. And that's not ever going to be a one-way street or a ladder straight to success, even when you're in those regimented like a med school program or you know a PhD program even though those seven years might still regimented after that you know there's still there's going to be like zigzagging spider web of career choices and decisions and things that you do and what I found is that being afraid of messing up is going to severely limit the experiences that you have and the completely the

types of things that you can do. Yeah and so for my understanding this YouTube series with the TriGas that wasn't your first YouTube show. How many shows have you had before the Tri Guys? Oh gosh. I mean, in Chicago, we would have a different show, a different live show every couple of months. And then in terms of making YouTube videos, I made a sitcom in college,

because I was very into sitcoms. And I remember I had a moment where, when we published it online, it suddenly got thousands of views. And we were like, whoa! But there's not even a thousand people in my school. That's like that. That, I think, like, I was only ever doing live performances.

And like, you know, 200 people would be like wow there's so many people here, but the realization that like publishing even sort of a not so great project that I did in school that was just because we published it online and in segments suddenly got an order of magnitude more views than had ever gotten by doing live shows. That was kind of an early appreciation, you know, back in 2008, 2007 that, oh wow, maybe this like digital media is a thing. Yeah, and a lot of people like, they may look at you guys and think, oh, it an overnight success, but you were working on your craft and experimenting with things from 2008. And it reminds me like, yeah, for me is my sixth show. I was in radio. I used

to work on any seven. I used to have online radio shows. I used to be more focused on music and hip hop. And I evolved. But yeah, it's my most successful show. Imagine if two years ago I said, oh, I'm done with broadcasting. I don't want to give it a try again. I would never be talking to world famous YouTubers and Robert Green and Mark Manson and huge people. So I would say don't be afraid to practice, to try, to start something, to fail, to stop it,

to evolve, to try a new show. Like that's how you succeed. It's really just trying and trying until you succeed. I completely agree, because every try that you do, everything that you attempt, you gain experience from it. You gain a better understanding of your own skills, and you're not going to just be successful right off the bat. That's a great piece of advice that I've heard for film writers. There's this paradigm of the young film writer that just rewrites their same opus movie 10 times. Well, what if they spent that time writing 10 different movies? And all of them are not great.

But maybe the 10th one is a little bit better, maybe one out of them is good. And I think that for anyone just starting out, like especially if you're interested in media, the barrier to entry is so much lower. You can just be filming things on your cell phone and trying out different things. And for kind of a nice thing about digital media is it's not like some big like, oh, I have to send my perfect spec script to an agent. It's like, you can just start publishing things. If people don't like it, nobody will see it.

So who cares? And then the things that people do like will put you on the map. And then an agent to the extent that you need one will be coming to knock on your door. Exactly. I know. People just need to like not be afraid to try and also not stick to the same thing for too long. I see a lot of podcasters especially.

They have a show that like never takes off and they do it for like five years and it's like, okay, your show is not working, right? You need to either change your marketing, you need change your branding, you need to change your angle, you need to change your frequency, you change your format, like something needs to change, you can't just keep doing the same thing and then expecting that someday you're going to blow up. If it doesn't get traction in like a year or two, you probably need to like start something new and not be afraid to stop it and start something new, in my opinion. Yeah, that's a really great point. I've never thought about it like that.

And podcasters need to be thinking about their podcasts like TikToks. Yeah. Let's get into some YouTube tips. So we love actionable advice at Young and Profiting podcasts. That's like my main thing that I always give people practical advice that they can use. And so like we said, your channel has over two billion views, seven million subscribers. You guys are huge YouTube stars, so you have a wealth of information. You guys released this blog on Patreon last year

that was called the 10 Tips to Grow Viral with Try Guys. I don't expect you to have memorized that blog post, but what I'm gonna do is do like a rapid fire segment where I will list off one of the tips. I'll do, I know we won't get through all 10, maybe like three or four of them, and maybe you can elaborate. Let me know if you have any examples with what you've done with Tri Guys specifically and just help people learn a little bit more about that tip. Does that sound good to you? Rapid fire, let's do this. 10 out of 10, baby.

Let's go. Okay, let's see if we could get all 10. So if number one, connect with people's passions and identities. Yeah, people like to share things that say things about themselves. So if you can make something that connects with what someone really, really likes, it's much more likely that they'll be like inspired by the content and want to share it to their friends. Yeah, if you're ready to take your business to new heights, break through to the 6 or 7 figure mark or learn from the world's most successful people, look no further because

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So like go narrow, I think that's the tip there. Yeah. Tip number two. Like we did a video about, that's, I think that's the tip there. Yeah. Tip number two. Like, if we did a video about, you know, anime cosplay, where we went to the anime expo, I have not really, you know, heard of that before, but then at this anime expo, there's hundreds and hundreds of people all dressed in esoteric costumes from, from anime's and manga's that I have not really known, and that was a really big, specific audience

that then had that video get a lot of views. Yeah, and they got exposure, and that's the thing about YouTube is that it's kind of like every video kind of operates as its own thing, you know, and you can get new fans from that video being focused on anime, but then they can go see your whole channel and maybe watch more videos.

So tip number two. We're totally failing at this rapid fire. I'm going to so deep, even on number one. It's okay. Make sure your videos accomplish one of these three things. Make your audience feel something, connects them with someone or something, or informs them of information. Yeah, yeah, what we said.

No, I mean, you know, you want to make your audience feel things, right? Like you want to make them learn something, or you want to make them feel laugh, or cry, or feel joy, that's something that I think effective content in all different mediums does. Totally. I totally agree. I think that's great advice. Tip number three, anticipate how the viewer will react. Yeah, don't really know what that means. Let me know when you find out. I think it has something to do with will they share it or not?

I think that's what it relates to. I think I was thinking of ways where even in the construction of a video, if someone clicks on a home makeover video, there's certain conventions that they might be aware of. So you can play with those where you can build on certain expectations and then subvert and disrupt other expectations. Keep them surprised, keep them delighted.

That's good. Okay. Tip number four, test and iterate. This is very core to our philosophy. We think of every video as a test and then we look at the analytics, we try and gain learnings from it, whether it's a style test or a content test, a casting test, everything we do, we try and learn something and then do more of the stuff that's working and do less of the stuff that's not. What kind of things do you A-B test? This is going a little deeper on the question. Do you A-B-test your thumbnails and titles?

Like, what do you A-B-test? Yeah, we really only have the ability to A-B-test titles and thumbnails. I know that, like Zach watched a tea company recently and he was doing some A-B-testing of Google ads and Instagram ads. But mostly we have two different thumbnails and we'll kind of play them off against each other

and same with titles. You don't wanna mess with it too much because if somebody clicks on something, that's like, try guys try that way and then they get there and the title is like, Zach's brain is ankle out. What? Like, it's just two different.

It's confusing then, yeah. Okay. Tip number five, find your foundational formats. Yeah, so as much as trying different things and different types of content, showcasing different identities is important, there's also an important element to different, any channel you have to have consistency. So we try and have that core format of, you know, it's the four of us trying something

new, learning from an expert. We try not to deviate too far from that because we've found that when we're having periods of time where we're throwing so many different things at the audience and whether it's like just solo shows or things where it's we're not really trying something but maybe we're just like playing a game. If you go a little too wide with your format you start to lose tune in because some people are really excited about one thing, some people are really excited about the other thing but on the, you won't get as much excitement for your content and your channel, and then things will kind of start to suffer.

So that's actually something that I think that people can take away is like, what is kind of a core element of what I make, and how can I always be true to that? And it's not to say that you can't do other things, but should in their best form they should come via a different vertical that's why for the baby steps podcast we're launching that on a completely new channel right it's going to feel very different and very unique because I think that will attract drag eyes fans but we also attract might attract some unique fans yeah cool okay so the last tip I'm going to go, have you go through is show human error to make your content more relatable. That's a very robotic way of saying,

that's true though, that's true. Yeah, that's very, that's a very inauthentic way of saying, be authentic. But it is true. I went to it. That's a very inauthentic way of saying be authentic. But it is true. I went to an Ivy League school. I just happened to be wearing the Yale T-shirts. Yeah, you got the Rubbing Yale. But I'm very smart and good at things. But that makes me understand that when I'm on camera, oftentimes not being good at things is better for the video.

You know what I'm saying? Like, even if I know the answer to something, saying the wrong answer is better for the content because it lets the expert look good and it lets you kind of be a conduit for the viewer for them learning something. Half time, I really don't know and I am a wild and person that likes making bad decisions. But part of that is specifically doing that for the content to be better. And letting my kind of like theory brain with all the stuff

we're talking about, just be for guest interviews on podcasts where we talk about like very important stuff, like profiting. Yeah, it's probably the nerdy show you've ever, podcasts where we talk about like very important stuff, like profiting. You know, you probably the nerdy show you've ever you're really like this girl is such a nerd. This is the nerdy show I've ever been on. No, it's all good, but I do, I really only get invited to the

nerdy show. So thank you very much for having me. Okay, I have a new YouTube coach. I'm actually really starting to try to blow up younger profiting on YouTube. We're big on Apple, we're big on Castbox. We're a baby on YouTube. We're nothing compared to you guys.

So I have a few questions. In terms of your thumbnail, what is your advice for thumbnails? I know like YouTube face is really important. Tell us what YouTube face is in terms of like having your mouth open, your eyes. Yeah, there you go. If you guys are watching on video, you could see as YouTube face there. Tell us about thumbnails because my coach told me the thumbnail is more important than your video.

In some ways, that's true. The biggest things on YouTube and this has been documented in other places. Check out Matt Pat's channels like YouTube theory. There's, you know, you wanna have a high click through rate and you wanna have good audience retention. So that means that people click on the video, they're interested in it, and they stick around to watch it. So you have to create an engaging premise

and then deliver on that premise, ideally, you know, towards the end of the video. YouTube faces just means like people react and engage with faces more than they do not, right? So having an expressive face that delivers intrigue and suspense, I think, I, one of my favorite thumbnails so it's like everything to do perfect does is great but like there's they often will if you don't know them they're a trick shot channel a quintet but it's a guy throwing a paper towel a roll and it's like mid shot and there's

a paper towel holder there and so you immediately feel that sense of suspense and unfulfilled potential of, oh, is this going to hit the paper towel holder and be successful? Finding weight. That would be way more, that's a way better thumbnail, right? Then someone just holding a paper towel and then text being paper towel trick shot.

Like that's a fine thumbnail, right? But if you can really give a visceral sense of an unfulfilled potential, that is a much better thumbnail. Yeah. And so like I mentioned, I had another really big YouTuber on the show, Evan Carmichael. And he told me that the length of your video performs best at 10 minutes long. Have you found the same thing? Or do you have another recommendation in terms of video length? Honestly, it's different based on your audience. It is a little bit endemic to the platform. Like I think people tend to watch longer on YouTube than Facebook, for example.

But if your audience is used to 25 minute videos, probably a 10 minute video will feel short to them. But if your audience is used to 90 second videos, a 10 minute video might feel long to them. But it's optimizing for audience retention and watch time means that your videos should be the link that you need to be to retain the most amount of people. So for most videos on a platform that's like 10 to 15 minutes, but our most popular series is 35 minutes long because it feels like a TV show and there's stakes and suspense and you really want to find out

what happens at the end and you need the full half hour to develop all the storylines. It's a cooking show called Without a Recipe. It feels like a TV show. For a podcast, I know that people since they're so long, it's less common on YouTube. So I think typically what people do is they'll have the long form podcast channel, but then they'll also publish like top-clip. Another channel. Yeah, or highlights, either on another channel or within the same feed.

Yeah, I heard the dual channel strategy is a good one. Cool, and then my last question before we close out is, I know the intro of your video is really important. So do you have any philosophy in terms of how you intro your videos? Yeah. And this is, this is kind of changed over time. I think we often started with like a non-sequitur joke that was really funny. And that I think works for your existing fans because they I think, works for your existing fans, because they'll think, oh, how funny. But for new fans that are clicking on it, or for people that maybe don't know your content as well, you really want to be delivering on the value proposition of the title on thumbnail immediately.

Like, what did I just click on? And why is it going to be worth watching and exciting for me? I think Mr. Beast does a really great job of this, where sometimes literally the beginning of the video, if the title is, last to leave $800,000 island, keeps it, the first five seconds of the video, is kind of an expanding on that premise of like, I bought an $800,000 island, and my 10 friends are going to stay here, and the last person here is going to win it. That's just this title, but in two sentences.

Yeah. So it's like delivering on what you got them to click on in the first place is really important in the first like 10, 20 seconds. Yeah. And having some of your most visually interesting shots right in the very first three seconds that, you know, because people, there's so many different things you can do, spending your time. And if you're here listening, thanks for spending your time with us.

But, you know, you're probably listening to this while you're doing something different. Maybe you're watching something different while you're listening to this. Like, there are so many different ways that we spend our time in our attention. And some people might watch the first couple of seconds of a YouTube video, like from Instagram. Others might click on it, but then you constantly have other thumbnails and things that are back in your attention. So you really got to, if you were trying to convince someone that your content is worth

watching, you'd better make it as worth watching and as worthwhile as fast as you can. Yeah, I think that's great advice. Now, the last question I ask all my guests who come on the show is, what is your secret to profiting in life? My secret to profiting in life, I think, is to surround yourself with loved ones. The times when I've been the most happy is when I have been working with people that I like and have been, you know, when your work life and your home life, your family life is working in harmony, you're going to be that much more inspired to be your best self

in all aspects. Yeah, I think that, yeah, don't go out of the loan. Yeah, I love that, yeah, don't go out of the loan. It would be a lot of advice there. That's beautiful. And where can our listeners go to find more about you and everything that you do? Yeah, so you can check out our new podcast, Baby Steps.

You can search for it on Apple Podcasts or anywhere you get your podcasts, as well as youtube.com slash Baby Steps to join our YouTube community and try it guys. You can check us out on tryguys.com slash baby steps to join our YouTube community and try guys. You can check this out on try guys.com or search for try guys on YouTube YouTube.com slash try guys at Ned Fullmer with an M. Done that before that. That's funny. But yeah, thanks for listening and thanks for letting me get nerdy with you for an hour. Thank you, Nat. I appreciate it.

I think our listeners are going to love all these YouTube tips and your awesome come-up story. So thank you for sharing with us. Thanks. Bye. Thanks for listening to Young and Profiting Podcast. If you enjoyed this episode, please consider leaving a review on Apple Podcasts or comments on YouTube, SoundCloud, or your favorite platform. If you enjoyed this episode, please consider leaving a review on Apple podcasts or comments

on YouTube, SoundCloud, or your favorite platform. Reviews make all the hard work worth it. They are the ultimate thank you to me and the YAP team. The other way to support us is by word of mouth. Share this podcast with a friend or family member who may find it valuable. Follow YAP on Instagram at Young & Profiting and check us out at Young & Profiting.com. You can find me on Instagram at Yap with Hala or LinkedIn. Just search for my name, Hala Ta. Until next time, this is Hala, signing off.

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