Young and Profiting with Hala Taha - Shama Hyder: Marketing in the Age of Coronavirus | E67

Episode Date: June 2, 2020

Learn the do's and don'ts of marketing during the coronavirus pandemic. Today on the show we’re chatting with Shama Hyder. Shama is a web and TV personality, a bestselling author, public speaker and the award winning CEO of Zen Media. She launched Zen Media at the age of 22 during the 2008 Great Recession. Back when Shama started her company it was one of the first social media agencies in the world. And now her company is now an industry-leading marketing and PR firm!  Shama has been named the “Zen Master of Marketing” by Entrepreneur Magazine and the “Millennial Master of the Universe” by FastCompany.com. Her books include the bestseller “The Zen of Social Media Marketing” and “Momentum: How to Propel Your Marketing and Transform Your Brand in the Digital Age.”  Tune into this episode to learn about the marketing campaign trends that are gaining popularity during the pandemic, how to market in a crisis while maintaining tactfulness and relevancy, and gain insight into hidden advertising opportunities during this time period. Follow YAP on IG: www.instagram.com/youngandprofiting Reach out to Hala directly at [e-mail] Follow Hala on Linkedin: www.linkedin.com/in/htaha/ Follow Hala on Instagram: www.instagram.com/yapwithhala Check out our website to meet the team, view show notes and transcripts: www.youngandprofiting.com Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

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Welcome to the show. I'm your host, Halataha, and on Young and Profiting Podcast, we investigate a new topic each week and interview some of the brightest minds in the world. My goal is to turn their wisdom into actionable advice that you can use in your everyday life, no matter your age, profession, or industry.

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If you're smart and like to continually improve yourself, hit the subscribe button, because you'll love it here at Young & Profiting Podcast. Today on the show, we're chatting with Shama Heider. Shama is a web and TV personality, a best-selling author, public speaker, and the award-winning CEO of Zen Media. Shama launched Zen Media at the age of 22

during the 2007 and eight great recession. Back when she started her company, it was one of the first social media agencies in the world. And now her company is an industry leading marketing and PR firm. Shama has been named the Zen Master of Marketing by Entrepreneur Magazine and the Millennial Master of the Universe by FastCompany.com.

Her books include The Best Seller, The Zen of Social Media Marketing, and Momentum had to propel your marketing and transform your brand in the digital age. Tune into this episode to learn about the marketing campaign trends that are gaining popularity during the coronavirus pandemic, had to market in a crisis while maintaining

tax fullness and relevancy, and gained insight into hidden advertising opportunities during this time period. Hey everyone, this is Hala from Young and Profiting Podcast. I'm here with Shama Hider. I'm really excited for this podcast episode. We're going to talk about everything regarding marketing in the coronavirus. So're going to talk about everything regarding marketing in the coronavirus. So super excited to talk about this topic. Shama, welcome to the show. Thank you for having me, Hala. This is fun. Usually I do live on my own channel. So this is a little different, but I'm looking forward to it. Yeah. And we had like about 130 something people sign up. So hopefully

everybody is tuned in and ready to learn the do's and do's about marketing in the coronavirus. So before we get started into the nitty gritty of marketing, I do want my listeners to learn more about you as a person. So we do a ton of research here at Young & Profiting Podcast. And I know that you started your company, Zen Media, when you were just 22 years old over a decade ago, you also wrote a book that is used as a textbook for college students to learn how to use social media, which is huge. And that's in its fourth edition. You've had so many accomplishments, and I know you're probably not one to brag, but I would love for you to brag for a couple of minutes.

Tell us about some of the biggest accomplishments that's occurred in your life over the past decade or so. Yes, I think my biggest accomplishments have been those where I feel like they've added the most value to people, and it's funny because the older I get, the longer I go in business, I find that that becomes more and more important is, you know, how are you helping people?

How are you adding value to their daily lives? And in our case, it ends up being their business lives, which of course affects their entire life. As I've been writing the books, you mentioned that I have social media marketing, which is now in its fourth edition. And I love getting emails from students and messages from college students all over the world who

use it as a text and then discover ZenMedia or discover me. And it's just it's really heartening, I think that's cool. I've actually written two books. So Zen is social media marketing and momentum was my second book. I'm working on a third book right now. So I like writing and like being on stage. I like doing this because it just lets me connect with so many more people. And hopefully adds value to their day. I think of all the things I'm most proud of is the team we built as NMedia.

And what an amazing job that they do for our clients because without them, I mean, there is no company. There's none of this, right? Yes. So I think that's probably my most proud accomplishment is building this amazing team of people who show up every day, give their 110% and the clients obviously trust us to show up for them and help them, especially in times like

this, right? So that's I think looking back and even in the moment that's definitely what I'm most proud of. Yeah, well, Shama's being humble. So she's on so many like 30 under 30 lists in the past. She has worked with huge global enterprises. She runs one of the most popular social media agencies right now. So congratulations on all your accomplishments. Thank you. Something else I wanted to touch on in regards

to context in your background. And I think a lot of my listeners can relate to this is the fact that you're an immigrant. So you came here when you were just nine years old from India. Tell us about that. Tell us about how your parents shaped you in your entrepreneurial mindset.

Yeah, so that's a funny story. In fact, I just did a video on, for my YouTube channel, on what it means to be an entrepreneur. And it's such a glamorous thing, I guess, now. And it's like there's this whole sex appeal to being an entrepreneur. But I could tell you, as anybody who's an immigrant and had entrepreneurial parents,

you really grew up seeing the needy gritty of things, you know? And often when you are an immigrant, the thing that's most available to you is entrepreneurship because it's like, you know, you eat what you kill, right? You've got to make your own opportunities. And so I saw my parents work very hard when we moved here. I think it shaped me tremendously because for me, none of this stuff, I don't take any of it for granted. You know, it's a very different feeling. It's a very, it's a deep feeling of gratitude. And I think you just kind of always have that,

like my husband and I talk about this because even though he's not an immigrant, we both come from very humble beginnings. And that's a really nice way of saying we grew up not so rich. Yeah, right. And so we look at our life now and we're like, wow, we just sometimes we can't believe that we're living this life and we've been given these opportunities. So I think there's definitely that sense of gratitude and that sheer sense of awe that carries through, throughout a feeling like you are in many ways living the dream and not because the way you have would be because of the opportunities that I think this country has provided and sacrifices of our parents and grandparents. My son is going to have a very different life, a very different childhood than either of us did

because of the sacrifices his grandparents made. And so like as a woman coming from immigrant parents, did you feel like your parents tried to like push you in any sort of way towards one career or another or did they give you the freedom to choose whatever your heart desires? Yeah, my family isn't anomaly in that way, because I talk to a lot of South Asian,

especially, you know, kids in there, they're like, how did you get your parents to let you do this? And to be honest, my parents are very awesome in that regard. No, you know, I think one of the things that the best gift that they gave me in my sister, and I hope that I can do this for my son, is they prioritized our happiness over anything else, over

societal norms, and because I think it's funny, because I think a lot of times immigrants come here, and this is true for non-immigrant parents too, parents want for their kids safety, not always excellence. They want to protect them, and as a parent, I can understand that Because they want to protect them. And as a parent, I can understand that instinct is to keep them safe. So we try to steer our kids towards the safest. But I think my parents, and this was smart of them,

realized there's really no guaranteed safety, right? They grew up thinking they would grow up in India, the day ended up here. They always had to make sort of make it happen, make their own opportunities. And I think they realized that, you know, the safety and security is such a, it's such a ploy, it's such a fake mirage.

There's really no such thing. Right, especially nowadays. Yeah, and so I think, you know, what's more important is finding again, what you're passionate about, but my parents were always very big on also finding things that, you know, how can you add value to people's lives? How can you make them better? How can you? And so I think for them, that was the important part, funny story, not many people know this. When I

graduated from high school, actually, I was very much in cosmology. And I want to go to cosmology school. And you know, as you, and I had a full ride to UT, and when I was trying to make that decision, my parents were actually really supportive of both things like not many parents would have been like, sure, don't go to college. Yeah, I know. I had really good grades, too. And that's like one of the really impressive schools. So for them to be okay with you going to cosmetology school just shows that they just wanted you to be happy. So that's amazing. And what he is, I in retrospect, I asked them years later, I said, why were you okay with that?

Like that's a jump. And I think it's funny because they said, it's important to know your kids. And they said, if you had done that, you would have been one of these big YouTube beauty bloggers that we see. You would have all been gone. And I guess that makes sense.

As a kid too. Good wasn't ever good enough. I always wanted to go all out, you know, put everything in everything that I did and I did it from a really fun place. Like I got excited about it. And so I think my parents kind of knew that about me and knew that no matter what direction I went in,

it'd be something that I would embrace. Not that they didn't have their reservations, I think as all parents do, right? Like, what's my kid doing? How's the situation? They trust you. Yeah. Yeah.

That's amazing. And you know, I have to say, I listen to an interview where you talked about your parents, you know, giving you the freedom. And it actually brought me to tears because I recently lost my father due to coronavirus, actually. And he was so supportive of me, all my, like, my whole family is doctors.

And so I'm totally the black sheep in my family in terms of, like, what I do. And I remember when all my siblings were in med school around the same time, like somewhere in residency, somewhere in med school, somewhere taking their boards, I was running a hip-hop blog site at the time, and like hosting concerts and showcases and interviewing celebrities, something totally different. And my father and mom were always so supportive. They just never, ever told me that I was doing the wrong thing and they just really believed in me.

And even when our family friends look down upon it and whatever, so I can totally relate and it is such a blessing to have good supportive parents and shout out to all the great supportive parents out there. So I just want to share that. I'm sure my listeners, you know, we're curious about that. And I'm so sorry to hear about your dad. How I mentioned this in a one or earlier exchange. Yeah. I think it's testament to the ways raised you that you're doing that. I don't know how many people would be like this. I, he is.

He is amazing guy. He was such a hard worker and he just wants me to win and I know that. So that's why just keeps me going. So let's get into the meat and potatoes of this podcast. This is the do's and don'ts of marketing in the coronavirus. So Shama, I know that in the past, you've marketed through a downturn. You launched Zen media during the 2007-2008 economic crisis. So now we're back in a similar situation.

Not only do people have to worry about their health, their physical wellness, they also need to worry about marketing through this declining economy. So do you have any guidance in terms of your top tips for marketing during the coronavirus? And then we'll dig deeper into everything. Yeah, so I'll just touch back on something, I just to wrap up our earlier point about supportive parents. I think that's a moving, but I'll just wrap up our earlier point about supported parents. And I think that's a moving, but I know a lot of young people are watching

and listening this to you. I think it's just as important for kids, for, and you're, if you're a kid, I'm using that broadly, to make sure that you are worthy of that support and you show up in that way too. And what I'm talking about that is I see a lot of people who are entrepreneurs or have these titles, and they're still completely depending on their parents.

I think you never want to take your family support for granted, right? Like, so important. I think one of the reasons my family, my parents, were so supportive and whatnot was, you know, I, they didn't pay my bills. I think it's very easy to be a hypocrite in that way and be like, talk all this stuff on social and whatnot, but in the end, like the back and your parents are taking care of stuff. So I just wanted to end that on that note, which I think is so important of when you have a supportive family, don't take that for granted.

I think I totally agree. Third point. You can't have the wins without also knowing the struggles, right? So I think it's important in many ways, I call like eating your ramen. Eat your ramen, like put in your dues because at the end of the day, it's not where you get, it's that process. And it's really important.

And I think for parents too, when you shelter your kids from that, you're not doing them any favors. I think it's very important to let them see real world, real world and inexperienced that. So I just wanted to, to, I think, I think those are great points. You've got to earn that trust from your parents. Yeah. I just want to put a full stuff on that and in that regard, with regards to the

current of ours and what's going on right now, I know taking a personal toll on so many people from a business perspective, I actually think it's an amazing moment for so many businesses. I mean, that's a lot of what we've done media do. When clients have a moment, we help them build momentum around it. Sometimes we help them find it. A lot of times they know, it's like, hey, we've got a leadership change right now. Like, COVID, this is a moment. This is a huge moment because what happens now, people will remember. I think very similar to how companies behave right after 9-11, people still remember that. You know, I have a client who won't fly

a certain airlines because he felt like after 9-11, they were not supportive, that they, their policies didn't make sense. And to this day, he just won't fly them. And so, I think this is a great chance for people to build that customer loyalty. There's a lot of businesses that are not going to survive this stuff. And I think part of it is this is what differentiates businesses that have the grit. For us, I think being started in a recession,

you learn to work clean. You learn to work smart. I think the worst thing you can do right now that was act in fear and everything on the sidelines. That's such a big mistake. So waiting businesses that are doing really well are the ones that are in many ways. It's a risk, but it's really not risky,

but they're engaging. They're not waiting for this to pass because that just doesn't make sense. You only have to look at history. So if you look at Shakespeare even or you look at any historical figures, many of them live through plagues, multiple plagues. And some of the best work was created then. Innovations came about. And so I think for us to be able to treat this in some ways to say, you know, what's

always the stuff we wanted to do that's been on the back burner. I mean, I can't tell you how many clients right now have pulled out projects from like five years ago. They got benched, right? Because they're like, oh oh we just don't have time and now they're like this is a great time to look at that me fan this is a great time to do those things so I do know for companies that are being very smart this is your moment I mean you have such a captive audience people are watching they're listening they're tuning in and so to not take advantage of that is just not a great business move.

And I think a lot of companies who haven't really started on their digital marketing journey or social media journey might be kicking themselves in the butt right now because they don't have the foundation. So another question that I have for you, because a lot of people are turning to social media and everything is starting to sound the same in my opinion. So especially the language. So you hear unprecedented constantly. We're here for you.

Everybody has this empathetic tone language to their marketing communications. How do you suggest that people start to stand out amongst the sea of the same thing being posted over and over again, regard to coronavirus. Like, what is your suggestion to stand out as a brand and be heard? Walk your talk.

Walk your talk and embrace your brand more than ever, right? And I think there's people are getting hung up on these terms, like, oh, we're using all these terms, but honestly, it doesn't matter. It doesn't matter if you see unprecedented or critical or whatever. We all get the gist and there's no harm in that. So it's not that use of language that I think is hurting us. I think it's the disconnect that people feel and I think one of somebody that makes Serena ask, you know, how do you benefit humanizing a brand during this time, like how can

being human make a business memorable? And I think that's exactly it. The problem people have isn't with the language. It's the disconnect between, you're saying this, but you're not doing this, right? And so if you look at, for example, I believe hurts, you know, there's been a big outcry because the CEOs and the exacts got bonuses while they are filing bankruptcy or you kind of need this. And so you see this disconnect often, companies, I think are doing it right. you see this disconnect often. Companies, I think, are doing it right. I'll give you two examples of, I think,

where it's been well received because it's connected. Carter's kids' clothes, they did this great little video which they used there, the kids of their employees and they had this little rhyme. And it was just so heart-fought and sweet. And of course, as a mom who buys children's clothes, like it spoke to their audience. I think that's the other thing.

It doesn't have to appeal to everyone. It has to appeal to your target market. It has to make sense to your brand, right? So you got to walk that talk. So that's one example. Another example, you know, Jan Marini skincare, their CEO is this really cool guy. His name is John.

He's read my books and he reached out to me. And they are actively trying to say, how can we help our resellers? Because they have spas and skin care facilities all over the US that sell their products. And of course, when spas and such are closed, skin centers are closed, it's affecting their reseller business.

So he asked me, he said, could you come on and do, you know, I did a fireside chat internally, it's for their team, which was really great because they're walking their talk. They're not just saying we're here for resellers, but actually being there for their resellers. I really think, yeah. You know, yeah, how can, so the whole point of that was, you know, how can we help these businesses,

they reopen, what should they be thinking about, you know, how can they boost their revenue and bottom line? So it was great, like we're walking their top. The third example I'll give you is another client of ours, OneDine, which offers guest technology to restaurants and hospitality. And if you can imagine doing anything in the restaurant space when all this has happened, it's but slammed. It has not been easy, right? It's been just such a shit storm. And what I think was interesting was, Ron called me to CEO, he's a very brilliant guy, great heart, I mean, I absolutely,

I have so much respect for him. He called me and it was one of those calls you get late at night. And when a flight calls you late at night, it's always a, uh-oh moment, right? You're like, mm, and then, and you have that kind of friendship where, you know, we do message at odd hours because we both work late, but it was just one of those, I was like, oh, all this has just happened and he's calling, like, I'm, you know, I'm thinking to myself,

like, how do I, how do I get them to feel better and not be so scared? Like, there's, there's a lot can happen. Yeah. And when I picked up the call, he said, you see everything that's happening, and I said, I do, and I'm just kind of like holding my breath, going, here it comes, like we've got a, and he said, you know, how do we double down? And I thought, wow, I don't have to, he goes like, this is great, he gets it, he's not asking, he's not, you know,

he's telling me, he's not, I'm not having to do the convincing, he's saying, how do we double down? I thought, that's so smart, because he said, look, all our competitors many error competitors are going to be fearful. The restaurants that we serve need us more than ever. How do we show up for our customers? And so we actually work to deploy their technology to offer contactless ordering and payment for restaurants to be able to turn any restaurant can turn into curbside. Pick up. Amazing.

So overnight, and you offer this technology for free. So you have 1,500 restaurants all over the US being able to function and open because they were using this technology. You never had anything else, right? No drive through anything. They were able to just 24 hours, and they got this deployed for them, which is awesome.

Because of course, now is dining room start to open. Guess who these people trust? Guess who the people emerge are like, hey, these guys were there for my time in need. They helped me, you know, stay in business. For a lot of them, they literally save businesses. And so I think that's the key isn't so much what are the words we're using, but are we walking our talk? Young and profitors, do you have a brilliant business idea,

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New episodes drop Mondays and Thursdays. Find the Millionaire University podcast on Apple Spotify or wherever you get your podcasts. Yeah, I love that. And I think you gave some really amazing examples. Lots of different trends are coming out of this coronavirus in terms of marketing. I've noticed like graduation giveaways.

So for example, crispy cream gave away donuts to anybody who walked in with a cap and gown. That was super successful. Pizza Hut also did giveaways. And then there's also like the charity aspect. So Hawaiian traffic actually, you know, because nobody's going out in the sun, nobody's buying sunscreen.

So they created this candle that smells like the beach and they spelled on eBay for $25 and then they give the proceeds to like a beach preservation charity. So there's amazing things that you can do that are good for everyone. They don't necessarily generate income but they keep your brand alive during

a time when you still need to maintain relevancy. So we both gave some examples of companies that are doing it right, but there's definitely companies that are doing it wrong. So I think on Twitter recently there was headlines about Walmart and Pepsi. They had a co-branded sign that was soliciting a COVID testing site. And it really like didn't rub people the right way. I think they meant well and I think it just went under corporate branding's radar. So they didn't, you know, I don't think corporate knew what was going on. But, you know, there's blunders like this happening and people get scared to market because they're worried about blunders like this happening. And I think that they just need to be mindful

in terms of their marketing and be tactful. So do you have any guidance in terms of how to have mindful marketing, how to ensure that you're relevant but also tactful, and not doing anything that's going to go viral for the wrong reasons? Yes, Gui, you know,

a lot's a really good question. I think a lot of it starts with your team. Do you have diversity in your team? And what this is one of the things that I think I'll just share this, I think this is interesting. We work with a lot of international companies who want to market in the US. And what they, we look at their material and one of the things that we find, and this is actually true for one of our clients, Wyveau, name, but they had a calendar that they put together. And as we flipped through the calendar, the team, we all looked at each other digitally

and we were like, yeah, we were all thinking the same thing. And the client hadn't even, you know, hadn't crossed their mind. Every picture in the calendar was a white family. Wow. There's like zero diversity. And I wasn't intentional and it wasn't like something they weren't purposefully trying to be discriminatory or racist or anything like that. But their view of America from the outside was like, it's a calendar. So we

have white families which within the US like our team, hmm, that's not. So I think a lot of times that stuff can get flagged if you have diversity and not just diversity in skin color and gender, but diversity in thinking, diversity people from different, because you will see just my virtue where you come from, where you were raised and how you're raised, like you're talking about like the hip hop, stuff, the end of the blog that you read, you'll have a different perspective than I will, right? And so I think it's very important to have diverse teams working on your stuff, working on your marketing. One of the things we really are proud of is that we have such a diverse team. You have more different color and cultures and

backgrounds because I think it just allows you to filter stuff before it goes out to the public. I think with marketing, of course, they get amplified. I think the thing is to be apologetic, make your apologies, and pivot, and move on. I just think a lot of times people will are so scared, they're so much fear, but sometimes, you know, controversy isn't a bad thing. Like, look at Nike, they've written the waves of controversy. And so we've had clients that have had a moment where they've had a controversial event, and we've been able to jujitsu that into something really positive and amazing. We had a campaign with that for Dippin Dots, you know, where someone in the White House of the time didn't like the brand and woke local about it. And that could have been just a real disaster situation because we were able to create this campaign

that responded to it in a way that was humorous and lighthearted and about making friends. Ice cream would bring people together. I mean, that campaign, it was amazing. You know, we're two billion reach. It was the, you know, more than four Super Bowl ads combined. So I think there's so you have a moment. Any time something happens, whether you perceive it as good or bad, you have a moment and the ability to then use that moment to get sort of, you know, your brand out there to be able to reach your customers.

I love that. I think that's a really good point to say that even when you do hit controversy, it's up to you to know how to react properly to it and it could work in your advantage if you do it right. So that's great advice. Thank you very much. You just mentioned that you have a diverse team. And something that I found very interesting is that Zen Media has started off as a remote workplace.

A lot of companies right now are transforming into a remote work environment. But that's something that you had from the get-go. How did you come up with that idea way back when like what made you decide to have a completely remote workforce? And do you feel like that's working to your advantage right now? Yeah, so it's so funny because when we started the company and I would tell people we're remote, this was like 12 years ago, they would look at me like I was crazier, they'd be like what we, and then I would say,

oh, we're working the cloud. Is that uptown? And we'd be like, yeah, way uptown, right? So I think it's fun. It's really fun to see people now come to a point where they're like, oh, this is great. It's funny because you've seen those memes. I think go around, it's like, what led digital transformation for your company?

Was it the CEO? Was it CMO? Or was it COVID? Right? Yeah. It's forced people into doing things. And this is what I meant by stuff that's been on the back burner. One day we won't get to it.

And it's just sped up that timeline. For us, being remote right from the start, it's just because I saw all the technology available to us and also because I don't think I had bad habits. But what I mean by that is I started the company right out of school. And when I was in school, I was working and traveling and doing stuff from wherever. I didn't feel like I had to even be in the classroom

to do what I was doing. And so I carried that, I think, over and I felt like, why would I force people to stain an office work my way when all I care about is the results. And my team will tell you that I'm very results-oriented, I'm very outcome-oriented. So I'm less concerned about people clocking in and clocking out. I've never cared about how much time someone spends on anything.

I only care about what gets done and what it's happy. Like if clients are happy and you're delivering and you're doing an excellent job, then I don't want to mess with genius. I don't want to mess with the ones why, or perfection. Like they've got what's working, they work well with the team.

That's great. That's what I care about. So I think not being a control freak definitely helps. Because I just don't feel like I need to be able to look over people's shoulder. Now that being said, if you are remote, you have to be very careful about the team that you build. You have to bring people on who do not need babysitting. It's gotta be a culture fit.

And remote culture is not for everyone. Sometimes when people come in and they're right out of college, and you tell them, go work in an office, have that experience. Sometimes people who haven't had that don't understand, but people who have that and have a clear preference, think that you learned about yourself too. And say, I don't know, I do much better remote.

Like, I know that about myself. Or I need to be physically with groups of people. So I don't think it's for everyone, but I think, you know, like I said, so many of our clients are even international. Our clients in Lithuania and Serbia, they don't care. They don't care. We're off-sync.

Exactly. They're never going to meet you anyway. Yeah, that's amazing. I totally agree. And with technology today, sometimes it makes no sense to have an office location. For young and profiting podcasts, I have members of my team who are in California, UK, Philippines, Nigeria. So we're all over the place. And that's the beauty of working in 2020 as long as you have like Slack, Gmail, you can get so much done.

So that's really cool. So before we move on from marketing in COVID, I did want you to share these really cool insights that you gave on your LinkedIn live at a high level. I know that you had like a 13 minute piece on it, so I don't expect you to regurgitate that, but it was the three Rs and the three Cs of marketing during coronavirus. I think it would be helpful. If you remember any of them yet, I don't know if you remember

them all. I'm happy to do a high level. And if anybody wants that video, it's on my YouTube channel. You can definitely go check it out. Just search Shama Entrepreneurship and you'll find it. So a couple of things. I think this is the new framework that we have to think about as we move out of COVID

as things start to reopen. The three hours and three Cs, and again, I'll do the high level. So real, which we talked about, how do you keep it authentic? How do you connect with people in that way? Where it feels, think about this. You're in my, well, it's my recording studio or recording studio, but you're in my home.

This is a very real feel, right? When we're in, when we're zooming with people and we're in their living rooms or the other day, I was with a client and, you know, I had my nine-month-old and he was like, mama, we doesn't say mama, but it was his, we have like, getting my attention. You know, when I said, sorry, I'd got him here and she said, well, no worries, I've got my two-year-olds here. So we think people are, I think we're hungry for the real. And I think campaigns that speak to that and are not out of touch, you can do well. You've been relevant.

I think this is so important because we are craving the relevance. It's like, how does this help me right now? And I think that's so important. This is what that moment is such an important. The businesses that are succeeding are the ones that are able to leverage their moment. Foo on their moment to say, this is how we are relevant to you.

In terms of C's, we talked about contactless and how I think for the near future, it's going to be different. I mean, when would you be comfortable, how are sitting shoulder to shoulder next to a stranger on On a picture. That's a two-mile before, you know, or I think the idea of keeping a little bit of distance, I'm definitely a lot more conscious about like, what am I touching? And you don't really think about that before, but now we're just a lot more aware of that. Compact, I think this goes back to my first star, which I didn't hit on, but it's repetition. Say it, say it again.

So many times people are concerned, they're like, aren't we bombarding people with our message? No, you are not bombarding anybody with your message. Like, that's a wonderful thing if that happens. If people see too much of you, Bravo. Yeah, marketing has done its job. But I think so most of the time, 99.9% of the time,

it's the opposite. You're not getting in front of your audience because people have things on their mind. I mean, repetition matters. This client I was talking to you just yesterday, and this is a great example of this Hela. He has been on my newsletter list, which you could check out at Zen Media. We do video. It was in all this content since 2009. Oh, nine.

Didn't know it. You never emailed or anything. But he said, I've been on the list because I knew one day we would launch in the US and we would need you guys. And I was like, wow. So, things, I know you probably have had that experience with the podcast, right? People watch, but they're not, they're not proactively like waving their hands. And then when you meet them and something they're like, Oh, I love you show. And you're like, you listen to the show like I and so repetition is really important. And I think, you know, we want compact stuff like

this podcast is a great example. You know, we want things faster, quicker bites, repetitive. I think it's why TikTok is doing well, frankly, right? It's quick, it's compact, it's repetitive. It fits a lot of the billing for that. So those are sort of high level things in the sense of what you really have to do as business reopens. Like this is kind of the most COVID world.

So I love that you just brought up TikTok. What a great transition. So TikTok just reached two billion users over the past, like I think maybe it hit last month. And that's because a lot of people who thought that they'd never be on TikTok ended up going to that platform. Because like you said, it fits the moment.

People want quick, people want to be uplifted. It's a platform that's full of funny videos and entertaining videos. What are your thoughts on TikTok? Are you on it? Do you recommend brands to get on TikTok? How do you feel about that? Yeah, so it's funny. I think it's a great platform.

I think it's having its moment. I think certain brands it makes a lot of sense for. We do certain things on TikTok. I'm not personally on TikTok. I'm not active on TikTok. Part of it is because our platforms are linked in. I'm doing more on YouTube. I think part you have to know your own resources and where you want them deployed. I think this is absolutely key. For us, LinkedIn has been such a powerful platform. I have with almost 640,000, 50,000 subscribers. And so for me, a lot of that C suite,

our audience, our CMOs, our firm Zen, and so forth, that's your audience, that's where they are. For some brands, I think TikTok's great. So again, this goes back to your audience, your fit. What are you comfortable with? I don't like to talk up something just for the sake of it. Like, this is a great platform. Everybody go run and do this.

Like, you know, you've got to be smart about it. If you're a brand, if that's your audience, if you're a B2C, if you're entertaining, if that's great. Like, I love making, hey, well, the sun shines. I think that's why Twitter had so much success with Twitter being just one of those early users and getting on it quickly. But you know, there always be something new. And I think that's the important thing to realize.

It's very easy to go chasing different things. It's consistency that brings success. Consistency is instructing people want the next new thing, the next thing to help them go viral. And I'm saying this is someone who, like, 80% of the campaigns that we do go viral. But they go viral for their audiences,

and they're very connected to business outcomes. So some of the campaigns we've done, you may never have heard of because they didn't go viral in that sense of, you know, everyone on TikTok is talking about it. Yeah. We've got viral in the sense that they moved the needle for the client. They got in front of their customers. I completely agree. I think that when it comes to social media, especially when you're starting out, it's better to focus on one platform, be consistent, build that audience, grow that audience there, rather than spreading yourself then just to be on every cool up and coming platform. So I totally agree. I do feel that lot more older people getting on that platform,

especially nowadays. So if you're looking for a new platform, I would suggest checking out TikTok to see if it may work for you over something like Instagram, which I think is pretty much oversaturated. And you need a lot of paid media in order to make a break on there nowadays. So any other upcoming social media platforms

that you know about that you would wanna share with our listeners, anything that has piqued your interest in terms of social media platforms? Yeah, I mean, look, anything video I'm excited about, you know, and I think it's LinkedIn continues to be my favorite right now, just because I think they're working so hard and improving the platform constantly. And so videos, live streaming, like that's really cool. And think, just look at the

reach right now of this, right? Which I just, I find fascinating and I love. You mentioned, you know, I think TikTok would be great for your audience. If you can, if you have the bandwidth and you can cut up more of these videos to put on there, I think that's awesome. So I just do think it's interesting what LinkedIn is doing. I'm a big fan of video. I've been gun one video for years. I'm actually doing a lot more on YouTube right now too. So I think it's interesting in terms of,

this goes to repetitive, right? How many platforms are you on? How much can you really, you know, saturate with your method, with your brand? And I think this goes back to making sure you're providing value, because what you don't want and what really hurts brands is when they do something because they think they're supposed to

or that's what everyone is doing. And they find very quickly that your audience has turned off or it's not converting so well or it's not actually giving them the business that they had hoped for, because it's not connected to business outcomes, it's not valuable, right? I'll let you one I could go on TikTok tomorrow and be TikTok influencers if we just, you know, were bikinis and hung out at the pool.

It's not our brand, yeah. Our brand, and sure, like I could get a ton more Instagram followers if I posted, you know, certain pictures, but it's like that's not at the end of the day when I'm trying to do. And so I think it's very important to be true to your mission, to your audience, and to give people what's gonna be valuable for them. Your dog is an important part of your family.

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No fillers, no nonsense, just nom nom. Go right now for 50% off your no risk 2 week trial at trinom.com-shap. That's trinom-n-o-m.com-shap for 50% off, try now dot com slash app. So we have a question from Rolex. He says, do you prefer LinkedIn live or recorded shortened videos? From my perspective, I prefer live videos because they're authentic and like Shama said, being real is really important right now.

I think recorded buttoned up videos don't tend to do as well and sometimes you can invest a lot in them and then they don't even perform that well. So when it comes to my videos, I like to either do like selfie videos and just throw them up and sometimes the quickest videos that I put out there got the most likes. How about you, Shama? What do you think? Yes, so it's interesting. I actually think the question, if I'm understanding it correctly, just because something is recorded

doesn't mean it can't be authentic. So I'll answer it in this way. Is it better to do these like polished videos, right? Are you released or is it better to do this style videos? And I would say again, depends on your audience. Like you, Hala, I've also experienced when we do videos like this that are more casual that are more honest, that feel more real to what my point earlier. I think people engage better.

I think they realize that it's not some commercially overdone production. It feels authentic. It feels honest. One of the things that I do is I often record my lives and then restream them. And I don't think I think that's awesome because again, repetition, you give people, like for me, I people all over different time zones. I have a huge international following. I've been following the US. And so I'll often restream a live event twice because it gives both audiences a chance to tune in. Yeah, totally.

And I do something similar, I don't restream, but I'll chop it up into microcontents. So that's the main purpose actually that I record these videos is so I can later chop it up and be repetitive. Like you said, reshare the content because most of my followers actually aren't watching right now. I have a lot more followers than who is watching this video at the very moment.

So another topic I wanted to talk about was actually the vehicles of communication. So there's many, like I'll give you an example, email is a vehicle, mobile push messages, social media is a vehicle. Direct mail can be a vehicle. What do you think is working in your opinion right now in terms of the channels or vehicles in which we communicate? You, so I think there's, again, I'm a big fan of using multiple platforms too, and you get your message because like you mentioned, there's people who prefer life like we're doing now There's people who prefer email. There's people who prefer text and so I don't think there's just one size fits all and now that being said

I think you have to be consistent. So if you're gonna do email do it regularly, right? I love email. I still think it's a wonderful way to engage if you're going to create a Separate, you know, if you're gonna do TikTok, I mean, do whatever you're gonna do, be consistent because nothing, none of the vehicles you're blessed are overnight. They don't happen like this.

I mean, you know, with a podcast, people want to, you know, I talked to this gal who was very upset with me for my advice, but I, she wanted to make her podcast, Go Bar Well, and she had two episodes. And as you know, it's very difficult to make a podcast go viral. Like you have to consistently build that community, consistently put out that great content, chop it up. Like just because you put it out there and

you've done it once your choice doesn't mean people are going to come to you. Even if you're a celebrity podcasting is the great equalizer as Jordan Harbinger says. Yeah, it really is. And so I think, you know, but the consistency is what pays off. It's not one video, it's not one podcast. It's not one email. Look at this guy who's been on my list since 2009, right? 11, you've been getting my email. How many emails do you think he's gotten?

Yeah. Well, it shows off that the consistency really can pay off in the end. So I have some data from a customer data platform called Amperty. And there are some clear winners in terms of the vehicles. I just want to share this with my listeners. Purchases made on social media have risen by 84.7% year

over year. Purchases made directly from retailers website screw 57.9%, purchases made in response to email grew 22.1% compared to last year, and purchases on mobile devices has increased by 23%. So there you go. Don't worry about emailing too much because it's working right now. More than ever, people are getting emails and purchasing emails and purchasing off their phone. So make sure that you've got your social media, your mobile, your email strategy, everything is on point. Okay, so moving on to advertising.

I think this is a topic that people are really interested in. Advertising is a funny one because I think a lot of ad spend is being cut right now, especially with industries like travel, financial services, retail, some of the industries that are not doing right well right now are pulling ad spend. What is your take on advertising right now? Do you think that everybody should continue advertising through the coronavirus and are there any hidden opportunities that you can share? Yes. And you. And the thing is they're not hidden opportunities, they're open opportunities. Yes, brands, there are brands that are pulling back to great time. And I think in Rob's word, my clients were to double down. It's such a smart time because there are opportunities now that

are available that you would never have. I mean, there's some of our clients that are smaller that have bigger competitors than them are finding opportunities that we're able to take advantage of opportunities now that are available that you would never have. I mean, there's some of our clients that are smaller that have bigger competitors than them are finding opportunities that we're able to take advantage of that they'd love to gap, right? I'll give you a couple of examples. So one of our clients for the state is an amazing platform. It's like a Netflix foreign entrepreneurs,

you can subscribe and you get all this content created by entrepreneurs and can help your business journey fuel it. And so when South Bygot canceled, I talked to them and I said, guys, what about creating a virtual business summit using many of these speakers who happen to be friends? I know these guys, people were so excited about South By.

It's canceled, you serve entrepreneurs, how about stepping in? And they said, sure, I mean, we pulled off that summit in like a week, right? Oh, with such a success, we had 2410 Ds. That's just live. I mean, we'd countless downloads. It's just been an amazing, it was such a great idea,

but it required acting fast, sweating, that's the thing. You've got to move fast, the moment, right? That was their moment. Yeah. They came eight weeks later and said, do it, it's different, right? It's like, you've got to take advantage of that moment. And so yeah, and I think there's so many great opportunities right now.

I see Danny E. asked, how do you increase customer retention? Part of this is great time to think about, how do you think your customers? How do you appreciate them? Jan Morene was a great example. I've done this for so many of our clients who've said, hey, Shema, can be higher you to do a virtual keynote, to speak to our people to help educate our customers,

much like I would do in live events, right? It's the same concept. So that's been really successful. Chase business is a client of ours, and we're looking at, I'm gonna do a webcast with them. We're creating all this content for their customers and their customers, you know, the content is not around banking, the content is not around finance, the content is around helping their businesses succeed. So helping their customers succeed with their businesses and

chase as their bank is empowering that is helping them through this time. So I think it's very important to think about your customers and say, how can we provide value? How can we, this is a great time to retain your customers. Great time because they need you. Yeah. Or they are captive. They will remember.

We will remember the things that happen at this time. Emotionally, our memories are sharp. People remember certain events. Like, where were you at 9-11? People remember people remember you know where were you when the olden or where were you when Kennedy was shot like for the older generation. There's certain things you remember really well. I don't think we're going to forget what's happening right now for a long time. So the things that go along with it

will will stick. Yeah, I think that's really powerful. It just goes to show that you've got to keep communicating during this time frame. It's not a it's not a time to put your tail between your legs and hide and be scared. It's a time to show your value and help people and show that you care about the people that you're servicing, right? So something else I thought was interesting, maybe you can shed some light into this, is there's actually some opportunities with advertising in terms of advertising rates.

Can you explain to our listeners how rates are more affordable than ever right now? Yeah, so what's the supply-demand thing, right? When demand is high, supply is low, you pay more. When it's inverse of that, like right now, you see that the supply is there, but demand is pulled back because you have a lot of big players who are scared, who are sitting on the sidelines, who pull back. This is where smart companies lean in. And so that's in a nutshell, how advertising works.

Cool. Thank you. So I would definitely go, if you guys have been shy to use Instagram ads or LinkedIn ads or YouTube ads, check it out. See if it's something that is more affordable right now and something that you can get into to promote your brand. So I want to move on to influencer marketing. So I personally in the past two weeks have been reached out like four times about sponsorship opportunities for my podcast. So I think influencer marketing is hotter than ever. Do you have an opinion on why that's happening and why collaboration and influencer marketing

has become so popular? Yes, because it's smart. You know, it's the cheapest. It's the highest bang for your buck, right? Yeah. Not me cheapest in terms of what you pay for it, but what you get out of it, because when you are able to leverage

an entrusted resource all by me, and I've done influencer gigs for Microsoft, and Bond, and cheese business, and I've got a long list of clients that I've done work for as an influencer in the business space, and the tech space, I think the cool thing is, you know, especially when it resonates,

I'm sure Hala, if you took on a sponsor, it would be because you feel like your audience would find that valuable, right? I think what's awesome is when you can create those win-win connections and marketing, which is rare, then I hope it would be. Like it doesn't always happen that with that much ease, but it's really cool when it does.

And so with influencers, I think, that again, the reach is there, the trust is there, the community is there. And we'll look at leverage that community is such a great asset to any brand. And one of my sees is collaboration, right? It's to be able to partner, it's to be able to find these connections, whether it's with TikTok influencers, Instagram, LinkedIn, it doesn't matter. What matters is, do they reach your audience? Does their audience trust them? Is there an overlap?

I think that's really where it's key. Yeah. And going back to your three R's, real was one of them. And I think it ties to both. Collaboration and being real. So that's awesome. By the way, shout out to my sponsor, Wauke, water. Thanks so much for sponsoring our podcast.

They're a sustainable water company. They are great. It tastes amazing, by the way. So our listeners will learn more about Wauke. Yeah. Okay, so moving on from trends because platforms die, trends fade. Coronavirus one day will be over.

You wrote the textbook for social media literally. So what are your textbook rules, I guess, are principles when it comes to marketing? So some of them we've covered, right? The idea of being real, and I guess it's a good recap, it's be real with what you're doing. Repetition is your friend.

Collaboration is absolutely key. The importance of being agile. I talk about five principles in my book, Malentum, and one of them is agility. Being able to pivot. You see that now more than ever. Brands and businesses that are able to say, what's the moment? How do we act on it? Agents, these like ours were able to really nimble and move very quickly in the favor of a client. That's where you see brands really succeeding. The tougher brands are where they're so slow to take advantage.

And by the way, size doesn't have to do much with this. We have clients at the enterprise level who have a lot of, you know, they've been given a lot of leeway from leadership and they can make decisions very quickly. And we have clients that are much smaller that you would think would move quickly but are so mired in bureaucracy they can't always say yes as quickly as they could in a sometimes not moment.

And so I think part of that is just mindset how do you become more agile? How do you stay responsive? So take talk for today. How do you take advantage of that? And so I think it's not thinking about those things and being not so much platform driven or even so stuck to your message, but looking at what do people need,

what is relevant in the moment and giving people that? Well, I can't believe we're like almost out of time or just looked up at the clock for a minute's left. That means I have to ask my last question. So the question that we ask everybody on the show is what is your secret to profiting in life? Uh, you know, I think to always be self-improving. I'm a student and I think that's always my mentality.

Uh, even when I'm teaching, I consider myself a student. I like every day that goes by, I think about what I could have done better. What did I learn from this day? How do I pivot? How do I be a better version of myself tomorrow? And I think that's the key. You become a better version of yourself every single day. Life long learning. I love that. Thank you so much, Shama. Where can our listeners go to learn more about you and everything that you do? Well, things are hard. It's been a pleasure. Definitely check out zenmedia.com. Tons of resources there.

Also, my channel on YouTube lots of videos on there, lots of content, and say hi. Awesome. Well, thanks everybody for tuning in, and we'll catch you next week on Young and Profiting Podcast. Thanks for listening to Young and Profiting Podcast. If you enjoyed this episode, please consider leaving a review on Apple Podcasts or comments on YouTube, SoundCloud, or your favorite platform.

Reviews make all the hard work worth it. They're the ultimate thank you to me and the YAP team. The other way to support us is by word of mouth. Share this podcast with a friend or family member who may find it valuable. Follow Yapp on Instagram at Young & Profiting and check us out at Young & Profiting.com. You can find me on Instagram at Yapp with Hala or LinkedIn just search for my name, Hala Ta. Until next time, this is Hala, signing off. Are you looking for ways to be happier, healthier,

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