Young and Profiting with Hala Taha - YAPClassic: Richard Moore on The Laws of Selling | Part 2

Episode Date: April 14, 2023

When Richard Moore graduated from college, his mom told him that he couldn’t go home; he had to get a job. To make ends meet, he landed an entry-level phone-selling job. Now, he’s a top sales and conversion expert who has generated millions of dollars in sales between his corporate sales roles, his private coaching services, and his courses. In Part 2 of YAPClassic: The Art of Selling, you’ll learn more tried and true sales tactics, like asking your prospects the right questions and learning your prospects’ motives for buying. Richard will also break down when to raise your price and when to discount your product.  Richard is a sales guru and consultant with over 20 years of experience in online, in-person, and phone-based selling. His clients range from startups to 9-figure businesses, and he’s grown a massive influence on platforms like Linkedin and Instagram. Rich has also been featured in publications like Forbes and The Huffington Post. He travels the world sharing his knowledge on sales and content strategy to help businesses turn leads into clients and close more deals.  In this episode, Hala and Richard will discuss:  - Understanding both the science and artistry of sales  - The three questions you need to answer for your prospects  - The difference between leads and prospects  - Why you should appeal to a prospect’s emotional mind first - Uncovering a prospect’s motives for buying - Are you using an outdated approach to closing deals?  - How to find the right price for your product  - A boring product isn’t an excuse for bad salesmanship - And other topics… Richard Moore is a conversion coach who specializes in helping coaches and consultants convert on LinkedIn from their content. For nearly five years, Richard has successfully helped scores of businesses convert through their content on the platform. Before that, he did the same with Facebook. During his professional career, he has also converted multiple millions in sales from his previous corporate jobs in London.    Richard has taught nine-figure business owners and solopreneurs alike how to sell using LinkedIn through his coaching, courses, and lectures at prestigious institutions like Uni of Edinburgh, Oxford Uni, Pearson Business School, Uni of Warwick, Warwick Business School, EBS Business School, Uni of Nottingham and more. LinkedIn Secrets Masterclass, Have Job Security For Life: Use code ‘masterclass’ for 25% off at yapmedia.io/course. Resources Mentioned:  YAPClassic: Richard Moore on The Laws of Selling | Part 1: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/yapclassic-richard-moore-on-the-laws-of-selling-part-1/id1368888880?i=1000607827696 Richard’s Website: https://www.therichardmoore.com/  Richard’s LinkedIn: https://uk.linkedin.com/in/richardjamesmoore?trk=public_post_feed-actor-image  Sponsored By:  LMNT - Get a free LMNT Sample Pack with any order only when you order through DrinkLMNT.com/YAP More About Young and Profiting Download Transcripts - youngandprofiting.com   Get Sponsorship Deals - youngandprofiting.com/sponsorships Leave a Review - ratethispodcast.com/yap Watch Videos - youtube.com/c/YoungandProfiting Follow Hala Taha LinkedIn - linkedin.com/in/htaha/ Instagram - instagram.com/yapwithhala/ TikTok - tiktok.com/@yapwithhala Twitter - twitter.com/yapwithhala Learn more about YAP Media Agency Services - yapmedia.io/ Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

This episode of YAP is sponsored in part by Shopify. Shopify simplifies selling online and in-person so you can focus on successfully growing your business. Sign up for a $1 per month trial period at Shopify.com-profiting. Young M Profiters Welcome back to another episode of Yap Classic. We're replaying part two of the laws of selling with Richard Moore. If you missed part one, I highly recommend you go back and listen to that episode first we played it last Friday. It's also linked in the show notes. And in that episode we go over Richard Richards background and sales. The different sales tactics you can use like leveraging social media to generate leads,

cold calling, building a great pitch, and turning your customers into advocates for your brand. In part two, we're talking about how to experiment with raising your prices, and discounting your product to set the right price. Richard also explains the difference between leads and prospects, how to close a deal, and how to sell a boring product. Richard Moore is a sales and conversion guru with over 20 years of experience and online in-person and phone-based selling. His clients range from startups to nine-figure businesses, and he's a leading authority on using LinkedIn to gain new leads.

Both part one and part two are filled to the brim with actionable advice that you can use to turn your leads into sales and scale your business. I am continuously impressed with Richard's breath of knowledge in sales and conversion, and I think you will be too. Without further delay, here's part 2 of the laws of selling with Richard Moore. Hey Richard, welcome back to Young and Profiting Podcast. Thank you so much for having me back. Of course, we're so lucky to have you on here. I'm really looking forward to putting out the laws of selling part two because when you

came on last time, I was so impressed with your knowledge of sales and so were my listeners. I got so much positive feedback about that episode, So I know everyone is gonna love part two. So we're gonna continue on the sales theme of our previous episode. Selling is tricky. Everybody wants to have a technique and methodology, but then there's also a balance you have to take to be organic and natural.

So from your perspective, you're selling guru. Do you think that selling is more of an art or a science? That's a great question. But for the record, I'm not called myself a guru. That's very kind of you to say. But yeah, I think that it can be made as science, but you really, really win when you understand that there is an artistry to it and there's an elegance that comes through the experience. And if you think about it, if you've never done sales before, by the time you're, say, aged 20, a really good way of putting it is that you're a master of the art of communication by then. And it like, I've got two young daughters and even the youngest whose four is phenomenal at understanding nuances and pattern in way, when people interact.

Just the loan understanding how people speak as an artist you do it, and selling to develop the art side, it's about a high amount of exposure to being on the pitch, basically, the more you can be doing it and interacting with people the more you will subconsciously pick up on those little nuances and things that stuff you're not aware of, that's something in your brain that understands and files away and remembers for the next time and those little nuances developed. I can sit down and give people great formulas that will really level them up. You know, for instance, here's how you pre-qualify a lead and find the best penicent

to speak to in a sea of a thousand people looking at your content online, for instance. And things like that will make a large difference to your results if you, if you're coming from zero, but the truth is it's always a human sport. And so to move to a place where people are thankful that they get to buy from you and they're warmed up to the point where an onboarding phone call, if that's the way you do it, for instance, is like a validation that they were going to buy for new anyway. That requires a lot of elegance, and I think it does come from just beating yourself with enough interactions with humans, just like if you network him off, you get the hang of

it. If you speak to people enough, you get the hang of it. All this stuff really is just practice and time on the pitch. So in many ways, my success now comes from the fact of just been doing it a very long time. Whilst at the same time, my success now comes from the fact of just being doing it a very long time, whilst at the same time, I'm a bit of a student of it all as well. So I'm a big fan of the formulas and the systems that do work. Yeah. So typically a sales process or formula is usually like five to seven steps. It's very slightly, but usually it's like prospecting, preparation, approach, presentation, objection handling, closing, and perhaps follow-up. Let's start at the basics.

What is prospecting? How do you define prospecting for people who are new to sales? Yes, difficult because it's so different for every product and every type of sell you after. But the idea with prospecting is, even if you go a little bit of a step further back, in fact, it is looking at pre-comification. So, how can I, in any way possible, before I even engage with anyone, apply some kind of intelligent filters here to ensure I'm going to be as effective as possible? How do I essentially minimise the amount of approaches that won't take me anywhere?

And it can be simple things like if you're approaching a business, are you actually speaking to the top person? Because whilst there's a number of roots in, if you do get the top person and the ultimate decision maker, you're always in a better place than someone who's going to go and internally sell on your behalf, for instance.

So that can start. And then really when you fully got the right person, it's doing a modicum of research to it at least to make sure that you're seeing what your angle is. If you can add to these three questions, why now, why us and why change? Those three things are, inmately being asked all the time by the person you're about to speak to.

So like, when you can answer those in the first few sentences, they really get to it. And before we get to that point of the pitch, we just need to be thinking, how do we warm them up? How do I position myself that if I am to approach someone we get just someone, they're going to say, oh my God, yeah, I've seen you around and you are like, I mean, we're already halfway there. And I think that's where there's a whole world of exciting ways in which you can warn people up. But, you know, being careful with the first message for perhaps, or how you deliver that, you maybe use a voice memo instead of text. And maybe the things you say is a little bit more of a tease rather than just ramming a PDF down. Someone's throat is the first point of contact. Really, thank you, Matt, how you all

warm them up and get them saying, okay, I'm shown some receptivity now. Now let's move to that first point of conversation or a meeting or something on those lines. Yeah, let's dig into that warming up a little bit. What do you mean exactly by that for somebody who's unfamiliar with the term? Sure. So as much as possible, if I'm going to pitch someone, want them to feel warm and receptive to me, people have always hated being sold to. But because nowadays, if you approach them out of the blue, it tends to be a conditioned cynicism that you're going to sell them and people don't want that, you have to gain a bit of trust first, as everything hinges on trust. And so the warming process is about you validating that you're someone who's going to bring

them some value. And that might be emotional value in that you're a good person, an interesting person to interact with or practical value because you can actually help them in their business. And it can take a number of forms and it can be as simple as leveraging a mutual contact. So if I say, I think I mentioned this in the last talk we did, you know, if I talk about someone that I'm connected to that you know, that validates that I'm a bit more legit and you're more likely to want to lean in and listen to what I have to say. It might be that I tried the approach of putting out content and directing it to people like you, so that the content warms

you up and makes you think, hey, this person can really help. And literally yesterday, I've seen, as usual, the ends in response to my content, which is part of the sales warming process. And the guy said, I see you as the person to come to in terms of sales and now's the time. And that's warming people up. It's so that they decide they self-select. They decide that they want to buy from you, or at least they want to hear what you have to say. And people say people buy people. But what it really means is when there's trust from one person to another, there is the platform for receptivity to happen, and that's the best place to begin a pitch.

And without warming up, the pitch isn't very difficult and awkward for both. Yeah, that makes total fun. Sticking on some definitions, what's the difference between a lead and a prospect? I feel like a lot of people get these terms confused. Yeah, it is hard because it's semantics, and I can go to two companies in London that I coach, and they will use different terms for me, different things. But Lucy speaking, a lead in my world represents someone who technically could be sold. So there's an element of pre-qualification,

but probably I've not engaged with them. So if you, for instance, said to me, Richard, I know someone who totally could benefit from whatever it is you do, or if I said, Hala, I know someone who'd be a great guest on your podcast, that would be classes and need. The near prospect is something of an opportunity, and that's where I've taken the lead to a level where maybe I've engaged with them a bit, and it's looking at like there's a level of receptivity. And then of course, we have other nomenclature for when they're conferding to the sales process and have been pitched, for instance, but essentially, for me and leaders, technically that person is, I've applied a couple of filters, the demographic is right,

the role in the business is right, and Robert Reed is an element of need there. And essentially, I'm looking for, can they control budget? Do they have the authority to spend it? And is there probable need for what I have to sell? Got it. That is really great advice. Let's move on to the sales approach,

focusing on emotion and sales for a few minutes. Dale Carnegie one said, when dealing with people, remember you're not dealing with creatures of logic, but with creatures of emotion. And while the logical details of a sale are important, your buyers really make decisions based on how they feel about you and your product.

And so your proponent of starting the sales process with emotional value and not practical value. Could you explain the difference between the two and why you choose to start off with emotional value? The reason why is because I'm selling to people and I'm selling to creatures that operate in a particular way and it seems intuitive to give someone an intelligent grown-up decision maker and seems intuitive to give them logic and the facts right. We're trying to be helpful, we're trying to be clear, but the truth is that's not how the human animal's brain works.

The human brain starts with a real kind of animal instinctive and emotional center that is like the gatekeeper to use sales analogy before getting to the logic center. So if I want to interface with anyone, I have to go through the emotional part of the brain first. No matter how logical that person is, they might be famous for it. It all starts with emotion. And very loosely speaking, and I'm not a psychologist, but I just have believed this from being around enough people over the years. If you're approaching someone cold, they're subconscious, because it's a subconscious part. This isn't an internal conscious dialogue. They're subconscious part of their brain.

Well, with Steve, whatever approach you give them, this is moments into the first second. And make a judgement on if you are a threat. Or if they might win here in some form or if they should be indifferent to you. And the reaction is chemical and it's happening inside their brain and that's where they decide if they need to leverage the intelligence center of the brain, the logical part because that actually takes a lot more energy and your center of the brain, the logical part, because that actually takes a lot more energy and your status of your brain is always trying to keep it like minimal use of energy essentially.

So whenever part of your brain is, I think it's called the lindic brain, the old part of your brain, the kind of the something called it the knitted brain or the crock brain or the chimp brain, the real animal part that's not evolved from, you know, 100,000 years ago, whatever. Basically says, am I in trouble? Or could this be really great for me? If it's neither of those, then discard and lose interest. So when you do something or say something that lights that up, you access the logical part, and now you've earned the right to speak to someone because now they're receptive and paying attention It insifies the brain is switched off and that's why logic first is a mistake

Because the animal brain doesn't respond to that so it is indifferent to it And that's why great example, Hala is recently I worked with someone who started their sales process through emails is recently I worked with someone who started their sales process through emails. They were trying to be helpful. Their burst email to call prospects was over a page long, loads of stats, underlying bits, cute little URLs, and attached PDF, bold writing here and everywhere. And no one was bothered to look at it. We broke it down and it ended up being two lines along the line of, would you like to be published in this thing? I'm around tomorrow for a coffee between these times as that work from you. The reason why that first line worked is because that instant win of, oh, I get to look good,

I get to be published. This would be amazing. I remember she came to me, she was like, I've only sensed three of them so far, and I'm three of three. Done. Like, she like, cool, let's go and let's try this. And that has to be done the right way. So you've got to understand with empathy, how the personally other side of the table is going to receive you. And when you get that bit right, and it is psychology, and it is understanding behavior, you can be so much more penetrative. And you don't make an idea of yourself because you're having got people going, all this is all, Krueh, I don't want to engage with you. And then, you know, people don't ghost you and things like that.

And it's the world's a nicer place when you engage people emotionally first. So essentially, you're proposing that whether it's an email or an own person conversation, like the first couple lines you say is really trying to get the person to feel better, right? As to elevate their emotional state. So I call them the wins. There are four main ones, I think I've given this before, but save time, save money, make money,

sure that can help, but really the main one is look good or an extensual variation of look good because that feeds the ego. And the nice way to do this is to leverage a here for a mutual contact. Okay. Because if I was to say, I can make you look better online, Halah. The problem is we've got too much cynicism there. But if I talk about how I've worked with a mutual contact, then that makes it much more believable as well. But I'm playing to your emotional center of wanting to do better in this world, look good and be accepted by people. Now, I know you're not

that shallow, but the emotional side of your brain is. Everyone's brain reacts in the same way. Can I look better in some way? Not necessarily in terms of fashion labels or whatever, but generally speaking, does this improve social status for me? If there's any kind of inclination towards that, then that gets a little bit of a light flash in the brainer and so those winds are crucial to gently put in at the entry point. Let's hold that thought and take a quick break with our sponsors. Young and profitors, do you have a brilliant business idea but you don't know how to move forward with it? Going into debt for a four-year degree isn't the only path to success. Instead,

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app. That's trinom and om.com slash app for 50% off trinom.com slash app. Totally. And so there's lots of emotions that drive buying behavior. For example, like greed. If I make a decision now, I will be rewarded. Fear, if I don't make a decision now, I'm toast or I'm gonna be fired. Altruism, if I make a decision now, I'm gonna help others.

So everybody has these different motives to buy something. How do you suggest that you uncover what those motives are? Yeah, it's always interesting because you will understand what makes people tick, is different each time and some people are motivated by money or same time and others just don't care. And that happens over the process of engaging with people and as soon as it's possible, once you've earned the right to speak a bit more, as in you've got the sense that they're acknowledging you're a value here, you need to get into questions and get the person speaking really. Again, this comes down to warming them up. And ideally, if I was, for instance, sending an email,

I'd want to do that little win and start and suggest that we meet or speak on the phone or something like that. And then when we go on the phone, there's that receptivity because we've decided to have this and never agreed to it. And now I can ask them, just some really light questions to get the ball rolling because there's an in-conversation. If you study the way people interact, not just in business, but in Gen, in-conversation, there's the nendton. And the nendton comes from both people. It's kind

of difficult when we have an interview because it's not entirely the same as an average conversation would be, but typically there's momentum in that there's ebb and flow and back and forth and dynamics and so on. But in essence, if you're approaching someone, you want to condition them to speaking and nitrize them to the idea that they are going to be speaking. Because if you pull at the non-stop, you can dishen them that they're not going to be speaking. So, the way you do this, the way you open people up is with closed questions. So, you close questions being simple, yes no answers or singular word answers, just to begin with. And the more specific,

simplistic questions you ask someone, the more they begin with. And the more specific, simplistic questions you ask someone, the more they will answer them. And the more they answer questions, they are the more they answer the next question and a larger question. And you can appreciate that the more interest they take because they're speaking, the more you earn the right to after the bigger questions. So, what's like an example of asking a question in the right way and then asking a question in the wrong way? Well, in fact the best thing to do is think about the smallest possible questions because they're the ones that nudge it along nicely And the smallest questions you can ask for what's known as acknowledgement questions and

acknowledgement questions are ones where it's almost not actually a question It's just things like does that make Or right? Or it can be in just tonality or a pause? And I've just done it there to get that mmm from you. So it's things inside what I'm saying. So the way you do it is you ask, so does that make sense? Will you put tonality at the end? Like that? So it goes up at the end of a sentence to suggest a question, or you leave a pause. And those two things can almost pop it. So master, someone into speaking, and just the little noises to start with can get the ball rolling. But ideally, I want to move to a place where I'm asking something slightly larger than an acknowledgement question, which can be almost anything, like within

10 and meaning. How are you and how are things or did you see I'd send that email or do you know how the who I spoke to the other day or whatever it might be that you're in, I would use that and that's the that's your commonality that you used to begin with. And it's just no different to if I sit down with someone at a wedding. And next that person and I've never met them before, I use the commonality of the fact we're at the wedding, and my ear is, you know, how do you know the bride, or something like that? And as that person starts the first few words of speaking, I'm not over the top with it, but a little bit of encouragement

and those it can always be questions, oh, right, and things like that, just to nudge them along. And so what you're doing is you're setting a little spark and you're starting the process of tenderly soaking a little fire. It really is how it should work because in the main, when you approach someone in business, cold to sell them, you need to take this approach of kind of really nurturing the little flame of a fire, of a conversation, if you like, because after one, it really blossomed, but you've got to put the work in, essentially. How about we go back to the sales conversation. As we were doing your research, we noticed that one of your favorite phrases to use is, I'm your man. That bitch. Why is this phrase so powerful? Because it short circuits that right part of the brain we talked about that suggests

there might be some fear or overthink things and worries. I'm your man requires a microsecond of thought. But you basically say it if it's technically something you could do, then it's dirty. It's yes. And it's a great way of learning how to jump. Too much overthinking paralyzes you and throws up the old but what if this happened and that happened. I personally find it exhilarating to work a lot of things out as I go, but also back myself to be able to deliver certain things

really well and in the main if someone comes to be in set. Hey things really well. And in the main, if someone comes to me and say, Hey, Richard, are you available to come to our company and speak about this? This is what our company do at does. It's like, yeah, I'm your man. And then I'll work it out from there. And that doesn't mean I'm winning it or making it up fully as I go. It's that I know the answer or be, I can do it in the end.

And I know that I will do a good job. And so let's jump because that saves me going through the hassle of thinking about the downside too much. I am very much a jump and build plan on the way down kind of person. So what I'm trying to articulate here is that the amount of thought I do put in is small, yet it is focused on, is this technically in my sphere? If it is, it's a yes. Right? It rather than, oh, I don't know, because there are different ways in which we could look at this and therefore I might not be quite right.

It's like, no, come on, let's make this right for me. And if it off-piece, then totally not what I do, then of course it will be a no. But I tend to be asked stuff around what I do and the best thing to do is jump and say, yep, I'm your man. And that's fun. It takes you to some really exciting places.

Yeah. Sales people often get a rap that they can be really aggressive, right? And I think that the aggressive approach really never works, such a turn-off. How do you advise that people be aggressive in terms of being proactive, but not necessarily turning off their customers with this aggression? Totally. The answers that you need to be aggressive, but you're aggressive with yourself. What that means is you push yourself and drive yourself to engage with as many people as possible. You're aggressive with your research, you're aggressive with making sure you're displaying some empathy that you plan how you say those first few lines and so on, you know, spend as much time as possible training yourself too. And that's the key. Is that aggression that lies

within you for yourself and being ambitious, but it certainly shouldn't go out to the people you're trying to engage with. The difficulty we have here, and this is why people get spammed. People always say, you know, why are they doing it? Why are people starting a message when they've never heard of me before and never met me before with the cell? The reason why is because that if you get one, pleat of receptivity in 800 approaches, that's confirmation bias for many. And rather than auditing the effectiveness, they're saying, do you know what? I've got a yes, therefore do another 800, I'll get another yes. If that confirmation bias drives the kind of work with companies where it's hundreds and hundreds

of phone calls every week per person, and the majority people aren't interested, but to a day will show an interest. And one a week will buy, therefore do it at all times, it's kind of sold-destroying, but if it makes you some money at the end of each month, then that confirmation bias perpetuates it. But we really need to think is rather than doing volume, put more stock in in being effective, it's far more fulfilling. But you know, the truth is that sales typically

is a money game as well. And when commissions involve people don't want to put work in, they want their money. And so they cut corners. And in a world like LinkedIn, for instance, you've got 600 million people there. So because volume is a feature, you can afford to be an irritant because enough people will say yes. If there were only 13 people on LinkedIn, you'd appreciate the approaches to be far more effective. And that's the problem is, is that people know that there's always another phone number they can call or another person, they can email. And you should act as though there is maybe only a handful and treat them like they're going to be your best ever customer.

The truth is though, everyone knows this is just that it takes time and it requires effort. And you know, the very, very best salespeople that I've been fortunate enough to engage with and meet and see an action over the years, those that make millions every year. None of them do these spammy volume approach, all of them, have the effort in and understand the importance of empathy for the actual individual research individual that they're trying to reach out to. Totally. How about we talk about closing a deal? There's so many differing opinions on how to close a deal. What are your top tips for that? Yeah, it is interesting because a lot of people feel that you should always close and you

should always ask regardless of how it's going. And the classic approach, which is so out of date, is asked for the deal and that will throw up the objections and then you can handle them. But what that is is a very reactive way of selling. In that you're, basically, you're just throwing an offer at someone, expecting a problem and then trying to handle the problem itself. Far better's be more preemptive and the best closes come when you've already warmed up person up and you've caught it the emotion a bit more and you've got them feeling that you're someone worth trusting in, someone that's confident and that's got this

and someone who can look after them. One of the most crucial elements in closing is that idea that you're going to look after that person and it's interesting that the natural or human approach is often one of a butler, right? So I'll do everything for you. Here are all the options. You decide you're in control, but the truth is invariably buyers emotionally prefer a seller to know what's what and to know what to do and to be able to prescribe a solution. If you think about a doctor or an airline pilot or a barber or a tailor, all these people, you don't look for options as much as someone who is in control and knows what they're doing. So that assurance emotionally that you have got this in terms of understanding the sphere goes a very long way. In addition to that,

I think it's very important to understand that being on the same kind of wavelength as that person, so being able to get along with them, and to if there is some there and having an awareness of the little things that is going on between the two of you. So maybe there might be some things to research, you have some commonality, maybe you went to the same university or you lived in the same place or you know a bar around the corner from where there are offices, all the extra research is so available online and having that to really make the point that you're here as a trustworthy person

goes so far when it comes to the closing side that there's this element of do you know what you seem like a person who's not going to take my money and run. So that trust thread is running through it all. But if I can be really practical because I feel like I feel that this could be a really good opportunity to give your listeners some real direct advice and stuff they can do. There's a really important point which is that you should separate the value from the price when it comes to closing. So what I'm saying here is really simply what you've described and summarized what it is you want to offer someone. And at that point you should just check in and say, you know, in principle, what do you think? Well, as a concept, does this feel good? Before you give them the price, you get in and say, you know, in principle, what do you think? Well, as a concept, does this feel good?

Before you give them the price, you get them to say, Richard, this is awesome. You know what this is just what I'm after. They have to earn the right to hear your price. Here's a good way to look at it. Rather than giving them the price and the package altogether, it makes far more sense to get them sold on the point and the value in principle. Because if they're not sold at that point, you're just going to give them a price for something they're not sold on. And they will subjectively then say, well, that's too expensive. So you check first that they emotionally and it may be

logically as well feel solid that this is a great value proposition. Then they earn the right to hear great, so that runs for 12 months at this price. Sound good? And now you're seeing the contrast or difference on now at how they feel about something based on the price. So in short, if I'm getting someone saying, this is exactly what I'm after,

then I've legitimized giving them the price because I know they'll say, yeah, I totally see why you charge that. But if I've got someone who's like, I suppose I don't really, I don't know, it kind of could help us. Suppose there's no way I should be giving them the price. That's not going to progress the call. It's going to ruin it. And what it'll do is it'll take the level of interest down and it's definitely turning them off. I'm not there yet, I need to loop that and be a bit more candid and just understand

like where did I drop the ball? So be careful, don't close on the price until they've earned the right to hear it and that's them selling you that they're convinced that your values worth taking the conversation further. We'll be right back after a quick break from our sponsors. Hear that sound, young and profitors? You should know that sound by now,

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I didn't have to worry about my website and how I was gonna collect payments and how I was gonna trigger abandoned cart emails and all these things that Shopify does for me with just a click of a button, even setting up my chat bot was just a click of a button. It was so easy to do. Like I said, just took a couple of days.

And so it just allowed me to focus on my actual product and making sure my LinkedIn masterclass was the best it could be. And I was able to focus on my marketing. So Shopify really, really helped me make sure that my masterclass was going to be a success right off the bat and enabled focus. And focus is everything when it comes to entrepreneurship. With Shopify single dashboard, I can manage my orders and my payments from anywhere in the world. And like I said, it's one of my favorite things to do every day is check my Shopify dashboard.

It is a rush of dopamine to see all those blinking lights around the world showing me where everybody is logging on on the site. I love it. I highly recommend it. Shopify is a platform that I use every single day and it can take your business to the next level. Sign up for a $1 per month trial period at Shopify.com-profiting. Again, go to Shopify.com-profiting all lowercase to take your business to

the next level today. Again, that Shopify.com-profiting, Shopify.com-prof shopfly.com-profitingalllowercase. This is Possibility powered by Shopify. Yap fam, if you're ready to take your business to new heights, break through to the 6 or 7 figure mark or learn from the world's most successful people, look no further because the Kelly Roach show has got you covered. Kelly Roach is a best-selling author, a top-ranked podcast host and an extremely talented marketer. She's the owner of NotOne, but 6 six thriving companies, and now she's ready to share

her knowledge and experience with you on the Kelly Roach show. Kelly is an inspirational entrepreneur, and I highly respect her. She's been a guest on YAP. She was a former social client. She's a podcast client, and I remember when she came on Young & Profiting and she talked about her conviction marketing framework, it was like mind blowing to me. I remember immediately implementing what she taught me in the interview in my company and the marketing efforts that we were doing. And as a marketer, I really, really respect all Kelly has done, all

Kelly has built. In the corporate world, Kelly secured seven promotions in just eight years, but she didn't just stop there. She was working in 95. And at the same time, Kelly secured seven promotions in just eight years, but she didn't just stop there She was working in 95 and at the same time she built her eight figure company as a side hustle and eventually took it and made her full-time Hustle and her strategic business goals led her to win the prestigious Inc 500 award for the fastest growing business in the United States She's built an empire. She's earned a life-changing wealth and on top of all that She maintains a happy marriage and a healthy home wife. On the Kelly Road Show, you'll learn that it's possible to have it all. Tune into the Kelly Road Show as she unveils her secrets for growing your business.

It doesn't matter if you're just starting out in your career or if you're already a seasoned entrepreneur. In each episode, Kelly shares the truth about what it takes to create rapid, exponential growth. Unlock your potential, unleash your success, and start living your dream life today. Tune into the Kelly Road Show available on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you listen to podcasts. Speaking of price, I came across something very interesting that you've said in the past. Essentially, you say that people should raise the price point every time you get a sale.

What's the logic behind that? Because you could just get infinitely high in your price and become uncompetitive. So tell us about that. Yeah, let me put some parameters in there. It certainly is the certain types of product because you may be in an industry where actually that's not a good way to do it.

So if I sold, you know, a forward focus every time I sell one, I put the price up because someone's will be willing to pay it is going to soon get me to a point where I get a lot of resistance on it. Well, I'm going with that. It's certainly with the high-to-get products and services side of things. And what I have experienced is if someone's keen on coaching for instance and someone's seen huge value in it, then giving them a price point where they're like, yes, sure, that makes a lot of sense. It's validated that someone's willing to pay that,

so you should test. Well, what about if I went up by another $500? So what about if I went up by another $2000 or something, you should test it because it's a really good way of seeing what your place should really be. It's a really good way of seeing what your price should really be. It's a good bit of market research, really. And when I started doing online consulting with startups, I started at quite a low price point, simply to validate to myself that I could close sales in this way. And then every time I got a sale, I just put the price up until I got to this point, I thought, okay, do you know what, that's the kind of price that this deserves?

Because that's the bit where people are like, yet totally get that out and I'll pay that. And it's just a good way of testing if you're going too low or too high, but it requires a volume of sales to really get a handle on it, if that makes sense. Yeah, I mean, I think that's a great strategy, like you said, to find the right price point

and to also not sell yourself too short, you'd be charging a lot more for your services, but you'll never know if you don't ask right? Exactly. And I think it's important to understand it. It's all about the individual, because value is a subjective thing. It's a perception. It's in the eye of the beholder. And I've been in meetings where I've done, you know, two hours of coaching to a senior team of sales people, and they'd thought it was worth every single penny, and I charged more than I would charge

for a month of coaching because I knew that this was solving this one problem I had right now. It was literally putting out their fires right now. So the value to them was totally worth it. And of course, there are other ones where it's maybe not quite as necessary, and so the price point reflects that as well. It's always ebb and flow. This kind of thing it depends on the individual and their certain circumstances right there and there. Continuing on the topic of price, what's your perspective on discounting your products? Is that ever an effective strategy? It's the case typically that everyone technically can afford your product unless you haven't done that pre-collification

we talked about earlier. So if I'm approaching, you know, people with a very low level of income with Lamborghini's, I'm not doing my pre-collification correctly, but in the name, if you've done that bit right, people can afford your product. So therefore, it's feedback if they say your price points too much. That's subjectively, they feel your ballin doesn't match where you're asking them.

It's your fault you haven't sold them properly. And so I'm very happy that I've got a system that works where I I'm very happy that I've got a system that works where I massively go all in on warming the audience first and they organically choose themselves and come to me and say I'd like to buy your product. That means that the discount thing doesn't come up really at all. The reason why discount typically is thrown at a seller is because if you don't have any point of differentiation, then you tend to find that the person looking for a point of differentiation, so looking for, say something like, well, what

about if it was another price point? If you don't resonate with that person, if you don't get all with them on the same wavelength, or maybe if the need for your product in and of itself isn't entirely there, That's where sometimes a discount kind of makes sense to the to the buyer again to basically differentiate and say, you know what, maybe we could make this in some way valuable or interesting because if they're not sold on you or and all the product, then lowering the price might make it feel a bit more validated, but in truth, you shouldn't have to discount someone who is a qualified lead. So someone who technically could buy totally the case. That makes sense. So I have a lot of friends who are in sales and sometimes I hear the

cues that they think that their product isn't good enough or it's not sexy, it's boring, and that's why they have trouble meeting their quota each month. What is your advice to people who claim that their product is too boring? Work on the basis that that's an excuse. Okay, always work on the basis that that's an excuse. I've had some really tough stuff to sell in the past and still managed it because sometimes you've got to take a step back and say, I need a different approach. Let's go and do some research, find some other people, get some different opinions from

good salespeople on how they might attack it. And you've always got a Mac fact from the wins for the buyer. How would they win as a result of making use of your product or service? And are they going to look good? Are they going to save time or give them convenience? Are you going to make it the case that they make for one or save money that's something to think about? But you can give a specific example here and I think it's a really good one. Those that fill their product or industry is boring. And it's such an important one. The truth is people by people. So if you feel your product is boring, no problem.

Don't talk about the product. Talk about you express yourself. You know, do skits about the, and some culture of your industry. Poke fun at it. Whatever it is, do something that's going to draw people to you because one of the most powerful things you can leverage is human curiosity. And it's the same as when you meet, think about it in the social context, because this is where I got the idea from.

In the social context, if I meet someone at a bar or whenever in just in social environment, find interesting or stimulating. Drop one when you say goodbye to them as you check them out online, you go to Instagram, you go to Facebook while this person was this person like. And you should know different in business. If you can do things that make people think, who's this guy? This is interesting. A good number of them won't be able to help themselves, they will click on your name, now then your profile.

If you signpost it enough, they will find a way to what you do. Those that might need you for the thing you sell, the widget you sell that's really boring, when they need you, you're the one. And the reason why you're the one is because buying your product, boring though it is, is at a time when they need it. And it's an example of another way in which they can consume you. So people show up, for instance, for my show, and for some, it's like, death, sleep, deadly boring. Like, how are you doing a show every week on selling and business? It's so dull for some, but for those who enjoy the way in which I do it and my vibe,

when if the time comes, they need something, I'm the one they think of because they like me more. And so the science shows its best part of 60-65% of the reason where someone decides to buy something boring or not is down to how they're interfaced with the brand or person. So the advice is really simple. Do things that make you more stimulating to them and it might be a longer play in terms of content or if you're approaching people directly one-on-one, be the fun, interesting guy.

And that earns you the right to talk about the boring thing because if you've identified the right person and they technically could need that and win from it, well then now they want to hear from you because you're a cool guy or an interesting woman. You see what I mean? So, leave it with being interesting. Yeah, it's really great advice.

And just to hit it home for my listeners, if you think you have a boring product, you yourself, you need to be the interesting one, right? And you're the one who's gonna draw on the customers and then if they need your product, you'll be the right person to contact. And so I know that when you're building a relationship in sales, your main focus is really to build trust.

And you say it's really everything to get the human in front of the prospect. And now it is online, it's very impersonal. A lot of it is automated, text-based. So how can we be more human online? What's your perspective on that? One of the things I am really behind is because people are trying to leverage direct message or private messages to warn people about is to use voice memos. Because all the platforms,

even the like and LinkedIn now, you can voice memos and it's the way I operate. Firstly, you are so much more productive when you use voice memos because you can get so many more done rather than sitting around typing all day. But secondly, those little nuances, so intent, emphasis, dynamics, meaning, emotion, it comes to when you speak. And that's why we're not doing this interview via text.

We're doing it through audio, so people can hear what I really mean and we can really get the meaning behind your questions as well. So voice numbers are massive because they're very positively disruptive because firstly, no one can make a judgment on if they'll even bother responding to it by reading it because they can't. They have to click on play and it's like a little treat

that you gave someone when they get that little voice memo. So they click on play and it's a nice little bespoke message just for them. You know, that we're not quite in a world yet where people are automating that and using bots for them. So using voice memos is a really good example of giving yourself and showing more of the human because the more of the person, the face, the voice, the way you move so video as well, is a great way of building familiarity. And if there's familiarity, that's like the seed of trust. And that's why I do my live shows,

and that's why I do video because someone who's never met me, just like you and I, if we watch in our films and TV, we have a sense of who that celebrity is. We have a sense almost like we know them. That's where the connection is far more rapidly made than if I just did text. Hey, app fam. As you may know, I've been a full-time entrepreneur for three years now. Yet media blew up so fast. It was really hard to keep everything under control,

but things have settled a bit and I'm really focused on revamping and improving our company culture. I have 16 employees so it's a lot of people to try to rally and motivate and I recently had best selling author Kim Scott on the show and after previewing her content in our conversation I just knew I had to take her class on masterclass, tackle the hard conversations with RadicalCander to really absorb all she has to offer. And now I'm using her RadicalCander method every day with my team to give in solicit feedback, to cultivate a more inclusive culture, and to empower them with my honesty. And I can see my team feeling more motivated and energized already.

They are really receptive to this framework, and I'm so happy because I really needed this class. With Masterclass, you can learn from the best to become your best, anytime, anywhere, and at your own pace. And we all know that profiting in life doesn't just mean thriving in business. With Masterclass, you can brush up on your art skills or your cooking skills or even your modeling skills. With over 180 classes from a range of world class instructors, that thing you've always

wanted to do better is just a few clicks away. On masterclass, you'll find courses from many app all-star guests like Chris Voss and Daniel Pink. I've been taking their sales and negotiation classes and I've been feeling like a real shark lately. I've totally leveled sales and negotiation classes and I've been feeling like a real shark lately. I've totally leveled up my sales skills. How much would it cost you to take a one-on-one class from the world's best? A lot. But with masterclass annual memberships, it just cost you $10 a month.

I have to say the most surprising thing about masterclass since I started this incredible journey on the platform, is the value. For the quality of classes, instructors, the platform itself is beautiful. The videos are super high quality. You can't beat it. Gain new skills and as little as 10 minutes on your phone, your computer, tablet, smart TV,

and my personal favorite way to learn is their audio mode to listen on the go. That way I can multitask while I learn, get unlimited access to every class. And right now as the app listener, you can get 15% off when you go to masterclass.com slash profiting. That's masterclass.com slash profiting for 15% off an annual membership masterclass.com slash profiting. Yeah.

Let's stick on social media for a bit. Let's talk about your connections, right? You've built a big community on multiple social platforms. How do you actually go about taking those connections and following and turning them into clients? What's your strategy with that? So it's an interesting one because a lot of the people who I interface with are the entry points to their own network. So the most content creators and people who are maybe doing things similar to me who are not necessarily going to clubs, but the reason why I still engage with them is that knowing that they have a network, some of their people will be going through to see my content

and they will kind of sell themselves a bit. To kind of answer your question directly, I don't do outbound. I create a nut back from a situation where people can't help themselves and want to send me that message to say, I'm really love what you do. And I've essentially self-selected myself to need help from someone like you. What are the next steps? And what that looks like is being everywhere as much as you can through a system of repurposing and microcontent so that appears that I have this abundance, but I, not actually on minor as time, and being useful to people against a very particular subject area. So it takes time, you know, it's been almost two years, a bit

doing on LinkedIn now, but it moves you to a place where you're in people's conversations, you're in people's posts, they post about you, they argue and so on, and you create that name and it takes time and say it moves you to, and it's where you get known, not just reputation, but you get known for being the guy that does that. Yeah, so it's almost like word of mouth. Yeah, and I'm denying on that, and the truth is that I could gain it more. I could get into more DMs and close more people, but actually it is really fulfilling to create a world where I'm being useful to people and validating that I'm good at what I'm doing. And so those that would buy from me

decide when it's right for them to reach out. And that is the best organic way to do it. And you see, if you're okay, you know, if you have enough money to survive, I suggest this speedy approach. You can do outbound, but it's far better to say I'm actually good. So let's focus on being useful to people and then come to me. And of course, when they do come to me, I will then move to a sales or closing process. But in the name, I kind of great as much as possible a situation where they take the first step because I think that feels

good for everyone. I love that advice. I think it's great. Richard, this was such a great conversation. I really enjoyed it. We always end our show now with this last question, what is your secret to profiting in life? Okay, I think a good question. It's thinking a lot about how my future self would act, but also thinking a lot about how my past self would act if they were in the room with me right now watching what I'm doing. So my past self, the one who had to graft and grind and bleed through his eyes to get here, imagine if that person was sitting here right now watching whatever task I'm working on, or not, and to get ahead in life, I feel you need to ask yourself, what, because

that's the greatest accountability to yourself. If past Richard was sitting right here right now, would he say, good, I'm glad you're honoring all the work I put in or would he be really annoyed at how I'm slacking off? Likewise, is the future Richard also saying, like seriously, can you just get on with it so that I can start to exist? Or would he say, awesome work, well done, you're get on with it so that I can start to exist? Or would he say, awesome work, well done, you're going to make me a reality. So thinking in a weird way about these multiple Richard has been a really good way of deciding if the thing I'm

doing right now is a worthwhile task to be working on. I love that. We've never heard that one before. And where can our listeners go to learn more about you and everything that you do? Sure, so it can all stem from my website the hub if you like so the Richard more calm or a very active on LinkedIn So I'd love to meet some of your guests there if you go to Richard James or all a word on LinkedIn I'll be there as well. Enough to speak to some of them. Awesome. Thanks so much Richard. You're welcome, I really enjoyed it. Thank you so much. Are you looking for ways to be happier, healthier, more productive and more creative?

I'm Gretchen Rubin, the number one best-selling author of the Happiness Project. And every week, we share ideas and practical solutions on the happier with Gretchen Ruben podcast. My co-host and happiness guinea pig is my sister Elizabeth Kraft. That's me, Elizabeth Kraft, a TV writer and producer in Hollywood. Join us as we explore fresh insights from cutting-edge science, ancient wisdom, pop culture, and our own experiences about cultivating happiness and good habits. Every week we offer a try this at home tip you can use to boost your happiness without spending a lot of time energy or money. Suggestions such as follow the one-minute rule. Choose a one-word theme for the year or design your summer.

We also feature segments like Know Yourself better where we discuss questions like, are you an over buyer or an under buyer? Morning person or night person, abundance lever or simplicity lever? And every episode includes a happiness hack, a quick, easy shortcut to more happy. Listen and follow the podcast, Happier with Gretchen Rubin. happier with Gretchen Ruben.