You're Wrong About - Singing in the New Year with Carolyn Kendrick and Each Machine

Episode Date: January 1, 2025

There's one last present at the toe of our stocking, and it's a new album by producer Carolyn Kendrick. We'll be back with a regular episode next week, but for now, come listen to some music, and join us for a conversation about making art and community in uncertain times, and the new year's dreams that will sustain us in 2025.Find Carolyn's songs, record, website, zine, and more here:https://linktr.ee/carolynkendrick Support You're Wrong About:Bonus Episodes on PatreonBuy cute merchWhere else to find us:Sarah's other show, You Are GoodLinks:https://linktr.ee/carolynkendrickhttp://patreon.com/yourewrongabouthttps://www.teepublic.com/stores/youre-wrong-abouthttps://www.paypal.com/paypalme/yourewrongaboutpodhttps://www.podpage.com/you-are-goodSupport the show

Welcome to You're Wrong About, I'm Sarah Marshall and today we just have a little New Year's Day present for you and with me today is our beloved producer Carolyn Kendrick. Carolyn, hello. Hello, Sarah. It's so lovely to be here. It's been a moment. Well, you're always here, really. That's true, that's true.

But now we get to hear your beautiful voice as well. I'm like the Phantom of the Opera. Oh. You're always dropping chandeliers. Right. I'm always behind the scenes waiting to sing and kidnap you or whatever. Just giving really good music lessons

to someone who can't even see you. Right, exactly. Would that be hard? Cause you do music lessons, you've done a lot of music lessons in your life. Can you really teach singing to someone who can't even see you or know who you are? You know, I actually think that

that might be easier in some ways. I think that I would rather teach in a Phantom of the Opera like situation than teach on Zoom. Well, yeah, yeah, that does make sense. Yeah. Yeah. Carolyn, we're having this conversation close to Christmas. People are gonna be hearing this New Year's Day.

And I mean, we're kind of, I think in the middle of that holiday, just sort of, there is no time. There is like time is both forever and nothing. And the sense of the past year is just kind of, I don't know, it's hard to compute. I think it probably still will be at New Year's, but I mean, yeah, what a year.

This has been quite a year. I'm so glad that we're talking right now and having a little bit of a New Year's. Moment. A New Year's moment, a bit of a ritual if you will, because I'm famously somebody who really struggles with Christmas, but I love New Year's.

New Year's is my favorite holiday by far. And I find a lot of fondness in having like a bit of a moment to kind of reflect and yeah, just like honor the time that we've spent not just with each other, you and I, Sarah Marshall, but also just with the audience. And I feel so, so lucky that we've gotten to cover so much ground this year.

I do too, and I feel like it's such a, speaking of just rituals and magic, it's a very magic thing to be able to sort of, for me to speak. I think of it as like I'm the sheep and you're looming the wool into a tapestry. And I don't know, the fact of like being able to talk to people and to do it in a way where it feels like,

I mean, I feel like we have been part of conversations that we have no memory of having, and yet we said something helpful inside of them and we don't even know that we did it. Yeah, there's something astounding about that. I was reflecting recently on how much these, working on your wrong about has influenced not just my pattern and way of thinking,

but also just like how lucky I am to have all of these conversations like in my bones. And yeah, like sometimes I listen to older episodes and I'm like, wow, I really have no memory of that just because so much happens in the day. And it's kind of astounding the amount of media, not just you and I, but like any average American goes through just like in the course of our lives.

And I think especially comparing that to like, I don't know, Joe March or something like that. I just think about the sheer amount of information that we process every day. And I feel really lucky that I've gotten to just like have these conversations kind of seep into my bones a little bit with all of these amazing guests and with you. It also feels like this is a time when it's extremely

overwhelming to engage with any media or information at all, at least for me. And we have, you know, a lot of neurodivergent listeners because those are the ideal listener, I would think. And I think that they, like, some of us are having that problem. When I was growing up, you know, when most of us were growing up who aren't extremely young,

we were like, we remember what it felt like to like want more media than you had access to, you know, or you would like want to rent a movie and you would be like, I can't wait until I can rent that movie, but I don't have it now. And so the moment came when we had access to more stuff than we could process or even know how to want

past a certain point. And so I feel like one of the questions in media today is like, cause you know, it's like podcasts are going to video and short form video has taken over. And there's a sort of feeling to me of like, that thing when you're in a restaurant, and a lot of different tables have started talking louder and louder, because it's getting louder. And then suddenly everyone's shouting and you're like, everyone's shouting. Yeah, totally. And that's what it kind of feels like just in media and online.

And I feel like this is a moment of, people are getting exhausted. We have to really pick what we wanna talk about and which conversations are going to enable people to process all the other information that's coming at them. And I feel like, I don't know, just the fact that it's possible still to make a show

that feels like it makes learning something that is still fun and still feels empowering rather than just more material being thrown at your brain over and over and reminds you that kind of, as a critical thinker, you get to be active in all this and it matters how you respond to things. It feels, yeah, just incredibly lucky. Yeah, we're in this interesting situation now

where we've got a bit of the cheesecake factory effect. You know, there's more things on the menu than you can possibly process. And yeah, also more people in the dining area than you can hear at once. And the acoustics are so bad. Why are the ceilings so tall? Yeah, space does not come to us naturally.

We have to carve out space for ourself and we have to carve out silence for ourself. And it's very hard to do because nothing is encouraging it. Yes, yeah. It was capitalism all along. And it is just a moment when it feels important to sort of find to whatever extent possible

the ability to sort of slow down in your own life and say like, with the little bit of time that I have, how can I actually create a little bit of peace for myself? Because it also feels like, just the more noise there is, it can often feel like it's your job to keep up with it or to keep processing the noise or the feeling that something bad will happen if you don't hear it.

Learning to step away from that a little bit. And I wonder about, I mean, Carolyn, what has brought you some peace this past year? What are you looking forward to in this new year? Yeah, one of my favorite things about my day is my morning routine, which I am lucky enough to be pretty selfishly adherent to, because I don't really have other people

that I need to take care of. Love it. Like I know that this might eventually change, but yeah, like I don't really have other people that I need to take care of. Love it. Like I know that this might eventually change, but yeah, like I don't have to be a caretaker to anybody. So during the mornings, I get to wake up, I get to make my coffee. I have been reading a lot of poetry this year. Right now I'm reading Billy Collins.

I wake up, I read poetry for a little while, I journal for at least four or five pages. I've gone through a lot of journals this year. And then I pull tarot cards every morning. That's so great. What is, do you have like some favorite cards? Like when they turn up, you're just like, heck yeah. Oh yeah, absolutely.

My favorite cards that I love to see. Well, the one that I, well, so part of this is that I'm doing, I'm planning on doing this as sort of like a project where I write down what cards I get every day and at the end of the year, I'm planning on like typing up all my journals and like putting into a spreadsheet what cards I've pulled because I wanna see which cards

I've pulled, because I want to see which cards I've pulled statistically most often. Which is like not a very romantic approach to mysticism, but it's what I'm doing. Some of us find statistics very romantic. Yes, and I am one of those people. It's like a temperature blanket, but one that isn't too depressing to make, which that would be to me. Absolutely, so I pull the Knight of Wands fairly often.

I would say I pull it quite a lot. And so therefore I hold fondness for it. And then I also, I really love the star. I think the star is probably one of my favorites. The star, the tower, and the devil, and the empress are kind of my go-tos. Is the star the one where it's like a naked lady pouring out some water?

Yeah, and she's like pouring, yeah. It's like a purification card in some sense that also has to do with hope and like what your guiding light is through this world and you're never gonna be close to the star, but the star is gonna be with you your entire life. You can always use it as a goalpost, a guidepost

but it's not something you can be intimate with. It's something that you can learn from. So yeah, I really love that card. And then I love the tower card which is a controversial card actually because it's sort of like the chaos card. Like it's all about like destruction and being out of control and surprise

and things coming to you in life that you were not necessarily expecting. But I also find that comforting because like, with every destruction comes a creation or a chance to recreate. And I feel like this year, well, I feel like last year was really like, you know, with every destruction comes a creation or a chance to recreate. And I feel like this year, well, I feel like last year was really like, I was pulling the tower constantly.

And then this year has been my year to think about creation like in the face of destruction a little bit. I'm gonna quote from Rent, the opposite of war isn't peace, it's creation. Yes, that was a very deeply influential lyric to me as a young teen. I would say that that is like a, it's cheesy as it may be, like I freaking love Rent.

And yeah, that is like one of my founding philosophies of life. I feel like every adult who loves rent, like sort of caveats it, at least in mixed company and is like, now I know it's cheesy, but, but I was like, I was driving home from Seattle recently and I decided to put on the rent soundtrack and I was just like, man, I still believe

the core messages of rent. Lavebo M. Lavebo M to riding your bike midday past the three piece suits to fruits, to no absolutes and no day but today. Which again, it's like, yeah, it's simple, but like it's true. Yeah, totally.

Well, I was gonna ask you, like what are some things that you have found peace in this year? I mean, this has been such a big gardening year for me and I have loved it so much and in ways that I didn't anticipate. And it's also been, yeah, I feel like I've been following your influences

as sort of like, because I've always known you as somebody who clearly is like finding peace in projects or finding comfort in projects, finding good stuff in there. Yeah, I've had some really good times in the kitchen this year too. And I think just kind of creating those spaces in my house,

which again, it's like a privilege to have fun in the kitchen, because I'm the only person I'm cooking for. Right? But yeah, but all that's to say that like as a lone person, like playing around in there, I'm having a really great time. And something I brought up a lot to my therapist this year is the scene in Runaway Bride where Julia Roberts realizes that she doesn't know how she likes her eggs and that she just like gets eggs the way the like last guy she

was going to marry gets them. So like when she was with Christopher Maloney, she was eating egg white omelets or whatever. And so there's a scene where she just like orders every type of egg and tries them all and figures out the kind of eggs she likes, which is eggs Florentine, which is great, cause that's a weird egg.

Yeah. And I don't know, just like gardening and cooking and like having a hobby to an extent, or just like drawing a picture, which you know I got very into drawing the last couple of years, because I kept showing you my Sex and the City drawings. It feels as an adult who has been

in sort of a try hard place for a lot of life, like very surprising and great to just be like, I'm gonna do this little craft because I would like to. And then, you know, there's a part of your brain that will make you feel like it's a waste of time, but that part gets less loud as you continue generally. And what also turns out to be the case,

and you can trick yourself by saying it's productive, is that like each time you do something you like, you learn more about what you like and who you actually are. I love that. I was talking with somebody who I'm very close to recently about how it feels really good to be at a place where I have the muscle within myself to be able to determine what I like.

And like I was reflecting on being in high school and like just trying things and I was like, I can't actually tell if I like this or if it's just something that is exciting or if it's like novelty. And I feel like I'm just now getting to a place in my somatic experience where I can hear my body being like, you like this or you don't like this,

or like this makes you uncomfortable, or this is giving you red flags or this is giving green flags, or this is like you red flags, or this is giving green flags, or this is like where you, like it feels really, really nice to be getting to a place where I can kind of trust that and hone in on it a little bit more. So great.

Yeah, I feel like this year, I'm so glad that we're having this conversation. This year has just been so monumental for so many reasons. Obviously the election has been been incredibly disorienting, not just the actual results, but the lead up and- The whole thing, the whole road. The whole thing, and there's so much violence in the world and war persists and I'm very worried about Palestine

and all of these issues I still want to be very plugged into. But it's interesting, developing these somatic sensibilities where I'm trying to be able to listen to my body, but not turn away from things that feel bad just because they feel bad. You know what I mean? Trying to figure out what is the line between

how can I be involved in my community? How can I be an in my community? How can I be like an active participant in the wellbeing and lives of the people who I love around me and to strangers? But then also listening to myself when I'm like, I need a break, I need to figure out how to do this in a sustainable way. I need to figure out how to do this

so that I don't fully burn out in a world where it is expected for you to burn out constantly. And so, yeah, having these little breaks and pulling my tarot cards and talking with you and chit chatting and being there for my friends and trying to make art, I feel like it's all interconnected and all I, sorry, I feel like I'm talking a lot. I feel like maybe, sorry to be like up on my soapbox

about all of this, but you know. This is what podcasts are for. Yeah. But that is, but I love it. But yeah, go on. Making art and keeping our community safer are intrinsically related. And I feel lucky to be at a point where next year

I can continue to explore that within the communities that I'm part of, including the You're Wrong About community. Yeah, this is a community with a lot of really, really lovely people inside of it. And what you're saying just, it does feel like what's gonna be necessary for survival going into another Trump administration,

you know, and just this, I don't know. And like, I don't know how accurate this really is, or if it's just something that's been working for me, but I feel like there's that saying that they have an al-anon of like, don't go to the hardware store for groceries, which I actually think is not the best saying because a lot of hardware stores sell candy and soda. And, but you know, what that means basically is that like,

if you have parents who just can't meet your emotional needs, then like, you know, don't be surprised if you ask them and they don't do it, which it's not, you can't just be told that you have to keep showing up faithfully at the hardware store for many years. My feeling, I think this time around politically is like, I cannot be angry at the people who voted for this candidate again, because if I'm angry at them, then it's like, well, I can be

angry. I can be angry at, I mean, I can and will be angry. But the idea of like, if I sort of stay in a place of outrage about like, how could you do this? Why aren't you different? Why don't you have groceries? Then it's like, I'm giving them the same power that a person like gives parents who can't love them the way they need, where it's like, I just really want you to be different.

And it's like, well, then you're holding yourself hostage waiting for someone to change who can't ultimately. And it's the, well, then you're holding yourself hostage waiting for someone to change who can't ultimately. And it's the I don't know. And I don't know. You know, I feel like it's possible to believe in people changing without holding your breath for them to do it and without feeling like you can't move forward and the things that you're working on and the work that you're doing to try and make the world better

if you're just sort of still in a place of frustration about them. And you can't control what feelings you have. But I think it's, I don't know, that waiting around for somebody to change so that they can see you as human thing feels like it's probably familiar to a lot of people from a familial level and that maybe,

you know what's great is that we're all already traumatized and we can use that information to deal with the large scale political trauma happening now. Ah. Ah. Ah. Ah. What a silver lining.

Yeah, I don't know if that's anything. I think it is. I think in the same way that you can look at the microcosmic and the macrocosmic and they have similarities, you can look at the reflections of your interpersonal lives will be reflected in our grand scale political lives. Yeah.

That's also something that I think is, at least for me, different with this Trump administration versus the last one. Was that the last one, I was, I think I potentially overexpended my energy on outrage. I only had so much energy and then I don't think, I don't think I actually saved energy for being helpful. Like I think we all have pretty like sober eyes

about the situation and we are at a point where, or at least I feel like many people have, kind of clear eyes about what's needed and what's next and like the severity of the situation. And I think we're all going like, okay, how do we expand energy in a for real way?, how do we expand energy in a, in a for real way? Like, how do we, how do we expand energy where it's like, we hold the feelings that we're having and like, because you can't just like get rid of

them, obviously, you can't just like expel anger from your body like, at will. Like, how do how do I how do I pace myself? How do I connect? How do I recharge? How do I how do I pace myself? How do I connect? How do I recharge? How do I create like an ecosystem of wellness within myself and within my community so that I can actually be helpful and actually like organize and actually go find the people who have been organizing for a really long time

and who are ready to see us at the door. Yeah, right. Yeah. And also the thing of like anything that you're fired up about, it's like, yeah, there's such a good chance that there are people in your community, either geographically or just in terms of, you know, the culture that you are inside of, whether that's spread out online or outside your door or not, but that there are people who are already doing the work that you're passionate about and that you can learn from as well.

And just this, I think as Americans we're taught, if you wanna make change, then do it all by yourself and on a massive scale. And it's like, no, we actually just need to all be working on a small scale together. And no one gets to take home all the glory and nobody gets to take home all the blame. And yeah, and just right.

And outrage feels like when you're trying to build a fire and you got like some newspaper going and it burns really bright for like one second. And then you're freezing. And then you're freezing and you need a snack. And then the hardware store is closed and you can't have any meat. And the hardware store is closed and you can't get your salad. Yeah, yeah. And well, Carolyn, you have a new album and I'm very excited that we get to share a little bit of it with our listeners today and give it to them as a New Year's surprise.

And could you tell us just a little bit about, well, first the album actually that you've put out and then about the song you're gonna share with us. Yeah, well, I'm so honored that you asked and we're up for talking about this a little bit. My new record is called Each Machine and I think it will be of interest to you're wrong about listeners

because it is deeply inspired by the work that you and I have done together over the years, but especially around a lot of the satanic panic work that has been done. And you and I have ventured pretty deeply into the satanic panic over the years. That's true, we have. And for those of us who haven't met yet,

like I am a musician that is, you know, what I grew up doing. Kind of the most thing about you when I first met you, you were just kind of like going around the house, beautifully singing to yourself. And I was like, I feel like they shouldn't be free. That's really nice. So I feel very lucky that I've gotten to like

expand my creative life into the podcasting realm. But you know, like this year, it just made sense for me to kind of, you know, get back into putting some music out. And so I decided to make an album of folk songs that are reimagined. And most of the folk songs have to do with the devil and with allegory and with femininity and with like the political reality of being a woman in this country and on this planet. You know, normally when I'm doing my songwriting stuff, which is often, I write love songs and heartbreak songs

and stuff like that, but this time it just felt like because there's so much going on politically and personally that I needed a little bit more. I wanted to kind of get into some different subject matter. So anyways, I think today I was gonna share this song that I wrote the music to it, but the lyrics are a poem by David Keigh and it's called A Perfect World.

I am so excited to get to share it with everybody here. And Carolyn, where can people get your album, Each Machine? Yeah, so you can, if you want physical copies, you can, oh, and I guess the other thing is that I wrote a zine of essays to go along with the record. If you go to band camp, you can order the physical vinyl or a CD and that comes with a zine.

If you want to stream it on the internet, it's on Spotify, it's on Apple Music, it's on Tidal, on all of the places that you listen to music. Wherever good music is. So much of the show has been about just like, what a promising musician who ended up in a terrible contract like the chicks and sort of how the industry chews you up and spits you out. And I feel like we do so much fame studies on this show that it can run the risk of being like, well, why bother?

I wonder just from your perspective as a musician saying to yourself, you know, it's time to make an album now and doing that. I mean, what is your advice to anybody who's like, I can't conceive of making any of the dozens of choices that gets a person from A to B? I think for me, like the last few years have been like a pretty serious reckoning

with why I make art in the first place. And, you know, like the music industry itself is like very much not set up to favor the artist. Set up to favor Kendall Roy. Right, exactly. Yeah. And if you are listening, you already know all of the financial realities of being an artist. But I will say that like, for me, I realized that not making art and not putting out art in a communally accessible way was making my life worse. And my need to self express and my need to share.

And also like the music that I make is very much like rooted in community. Like I come from a tradition of music that is very much centered around playing songs around campfires and sharing source recordings of like old fiddlers that you love and things like that. And so I feel compelled to be able to contribute to that output.

And I think there's a million ways to make music and make art and put it out there. And it can be, I think I also have had to like, kind of decouple my desire to, not even make money, but be quote unquote successful within the music industry. Like I had to kind of recenter being like, I am making music and putting music out

because it is like the primary lens of my life. It's the primary way in which I connect with other people. And that is my main goal and value in life. And everything else is kind of bonus. Like if people listen to it, amazing. If people don't listen to it, I still have to put it out. You know, like I hope people listen, not because I want them to care about like me specifically,

but because these songs are like really beautiful folk songs that have like pretty deep roots in American history. And I hope that that's something that people are compelled by, but also, you know, a bunch of people are gonna listen to it and not like it. And that's also cool. So, you know, I think that if you like the show already,

you're not allowed to not like it. So, sorry. But you know, like it's, if people are in the mood to make art, like there's a million ways to make art in like a, in like's, if people are in the mood to make art, like there's a million ways to make art in like a, in like a, uh, an economical way. And I think it's more important to think about like why you're making the art that you're making and like everything else can be figured out, you know?

I think something that has happened in culture in the last few years is that, and of course I'm in a bubble, but it's a big bubble, is that more people than ever in one way or another are making content for a living. And media has become content and art has become content and like your personal like vlog of your life and like by extension your life as well can also become content. And content is not art in that it is defined, art is defined by the desires of the artist. And of course, not everything can be art, not everything should be art, but it's nice to have it in a functioning society.

And content is defined by the needs or the anticipated needs of the audience. And what I feel like has happened is this sort of like creep of content into how we approach everything. So that now, if you're trying to make art, even if you're just like a person in your room, I think the way that our sense of kind of what makes you employable, what it takes to, you know,

have like a successful baby who gets enough likes on Instagram to, you know, make you feel like your baby is batting high enough or whatever. It's like, I think that the media landscape makes it hard to not follow along with what you see working for people in the broadest sense. And just, it makes it hard to not think of what you wanna do

in terms of what people would think of it, or think of whatever thought you are having in your do in terms of what people would think of it, or think of whatever thought you are having in your head in terms of what people would say about it if you posted it on social media. And yeah, I think that it's a really great time to just be like, I don't know why I wanna do this weird little thing I wanna do, but I'm doing it, I'm making a potato print.

Yeah, exactly, exactly. Yeah, I feel like we shouldn't be too judgmental about our desires. That's the other thing that I think I've really thought about a lot this year is like, if desire is inspired within you, like I think it's worth going for, you know? Yeah.

There it is, that's it. I dreamt I saw a perfect world, a perfect world I didn't see, but it could not be perfect As it included me As it included me I dreamt I saw the angels, the angels I did see They could not be angels Because they talk to me Because they talk to me I dreamt I saw the devil, the devil I did see And I know it was the devil The devil lives in me The devil lives in me The devil lives in me The devil lives in me The devil is in me The devil is me

The devil is me